https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=-zZB9t7B6uM
All right, according to this we’re live anyway, that’s actually true or if it’s a myth I Get the link pinned up on my channel. I’ve got a link up on Jacob’s channel. We’re gonna talk for 20 minutes Oops, there we go. All right, we’re gonna talk for like 20 minutes and then and then we’re gonna invite people in to come in and play and talk about Consideration and when it can be inconsiderate, right? So This has come up a lot lately where you know Have you considered this and have you considered that and yeah, there’s an infinite number of things you can consider But this goes back to should you are they important? Are they interesting to the topic at hand? You can just consideration is infinite technically speaking like at what point do you not bring something in for consideration? right which you know not to say never but a lot of times it’s a trick that we play on ourselves and Probably just witnessed on the discord server right where people are they want to say something but they don’t want conflict So they couch it in this well, have you considered right? And then they’re projecting all over the place like well, no, I didn’t consider that because it wasn’t part of what I was talking about right, and sometimes you need to say that to people like Look, have you considered that if you have a beer, right that maybe you know, that’s one beer too many already For some people that’s a concern. It’s not a concern for a bunch of people But for some people that’s a concern, right? Or have you considered that maybe if you start taking these painkillers that you won’t be able to stop that’s a concern And and if somebody asked me should I take painkillers it’s perfectly reasonable to bring that up but if you say something like well, I’m worried about The impact this will have on the global economy. It’s like well, yeah, but really I just wanted to go to the store That’s not a valid consideration with the impact you have in the global economy in the in the frame of I want to go to the store is You know kind of pushing it and then the question is well, why are you doing that? Are you trying to guilt them into not going to the store? Probably Probably you are right. And do you know that or are you just doing that and not even realizing what your own? unconscious motivations are I video on unconscious versus conscious motivations On navigating patterns because of course I have a video and I think that’s the That’s the problem is it is is Is that it’s easy to get carried away with consideration and use it as a way to project something that you’re otherwise avoiding talking about or to use it as a tool of manipulation to force people to do or not do a certain thing and It’s very pernicious because it’s one of these Deceptions that we use on ourselves and it’s our unconscious mind Deceiving us into believing that we’re being helpful or good or you know, we’re just you know We’re just we’re just trying to make sure that that your poor tiny brain Which only had two options now has to deal with a bunch of more considerations that aren’t relevant or may not be relevant or are relevant but are Unimportant because a lot of times there were decision that the fact that they have consequences Isn’t relevant because you have to do them anyway, like a decision is going to be made There are going to be consequences one way or the other Considering all of those consequences doesn’t help you make the decision, right? It can paralyze you into no decision And that’s really important to realize so sometimes you’re using it as warfare it’s a weapon and Anything can be weaponized like an empathy can be weaponized compassion can be weaponized love can be weaponized Consideration can be weaponized all of these things can be weaponized and that’s because the weaponization of something is in the framing and the intent And not in the thing itself and thinking it’s in the thing itself is a materialist mistake, right? And that’s a that’s a problem Yeah, and to be fair to people right like we we can weaponize these things to ourselves, right? so In in some sense this this idea of analysis paralysis, which is I think a really modern problem Where a lot of people have to deal with like it’s it’s Over and over talking to ourselves have you considered this have you considered this right? Like and it’s not it’s not in that that way, but it’s like oh, I should think about this Oh, you should think about this right? So there’s this this adding of complexity to That that goes beyond relevance, right so so in a sense Consideration is a In a sense Consideration is Is in some sense extending what is relevant right like what what is the realm that we have to deal with and? That that is sometimes a good thing right because like Faveca talks about this reciprocally narrowing where you’re you’re focused on oh, I always get this theory right like yeah Maybe maybe that was the right decision like 15 years ago But after 15 years there might be a different brand that is way cheaper or whatever value that you want to ascribe way healthier That that you want to get the brand from right so getting stuck in in this understanding of well I don’t want to consider anything else because that’s too much for me right like there’s a negative In in that aspect of the equation, but there’s also a negative in in the aspect of well like now I’m gonna have to consider the 150 brands or types of Whatever cereal that are available, and then well I could also eat bread So and then I need to put something on the bread And then I could also do this right and and and it’s an right like so we need we need to limit that consideration right and the the frame in which this was brought up to us initially was we when When we ask questions often we need to make a decision To go forward right and so we asked someone’s decision Suggestion for for assisting us with that decision making right so I have reduced my complexity to two choices And now I need I need you to to say whether this one is better for me or this one is better for me so so I can move forward in the world and At that point the last thing that a person wants to hear is have you considered Because they have considered all the options already right and and in in one of times people have considered all the options and and getting outside of the frame is Not respectful of the care that they put in to their own decision make right right It’s it’s it’s okay to Give a suggestion later on right if that’s appropriate to that person and like well you To me this is important right like maybe you should consider that as well or or whatever right? But that is after you give them the resolution to the problem right and if you’re not giving them the solution to the problem What you’re doing is you inserting your priority over the priority of the individual that you’re talking I think that’s my problem That we kind of want to dance around today right that that in the equivalent Equivocation on the word considering right so We’re using it in two ways. I mean I think everybody is like to be fair right? it’s not a not a not a not a particular specific problem right but a Consideration is an object in the world’s right or or an an object of thought right like oh We’re gonna think about these these decisions or these thoughts or these emotions or these feelings or whatever right or this situation Whatever it is okay Being considerate towards someone is a different operation entirely and so giving people Considerations in other words more choices more things to think about is not necessarily respectful of their cognitive load their cognitive capacity Right or their the framing that they’re that they’re trying to keep intact. It’s perfectly valid to say well I don’t understand your choices Can you explain to me how you got there right? But then you’re not pretending to give them an answer that they didn’t ask for for example, which is really that’s Considerate right asking somebody hate I You know, right? Are you sure it’s just between those two things like have you thought about just asking somebody? Have you thought about this sure, you know, and maybe they have it and maybe that’s useful But answering them with well, really you should consider the global impact of your decision to go to Walmart No No, I just asked you should I go to Walmart like it’s not that hard, right? And so to be considerate towards the person is to help to answer their initial question If you want to reframe it later to manuals point reframe it later, but first cooperate with them like and this this Considerations thing is just a way of rebelling It’s another way of rebelling and it’s a big problem like people are running into this left right and center, especially lately I don’t I don’t know I mean, I think a lot of it’s just leftover anxiety and stress from The fake news virus scam garbage and we’re just suffering from that left right and center like people are on edge and they’re anxious And they’re rebelling against everything because who knows what you should rebel against what you shouldn’t like I’m right there with you like that’s a that’s difficult But we’ve been thrown into a world of too many choices and now we’re just seeing choices everywhere and we’re like well I’m gonna put everybody in the same distress on I’m in by giving them more choices than they need to have Right and and look I mean sometimes people need more choices Are you sure you know when though is that is it? Are you really sure that you know what’s in their mind well enough to know that they need all these extra choices? really Yeah, and so That that’s one part it’s like If when when you’re giving someone a consideration do you know where you’re coming Right like what are you trying to achieve when when you’re giving this consideration right because when when you’re giving a consideration right There’s that there well you take someone out of a binary decision right which which is fine theoretically right but Dimension that you’re adding right like is Coloring the decisions right like it’s changing the variables into into a way and There’s a likelihood that there’s a personal motive in the way that you’re you’re changing the variables right like so what you’re doing in some sense is You’re you’re trying to get the order to express something that you want That you think is right and and that might be the right thing to do But is it the right thing I mean the thing that you want to express might be right But is it the right thing to do to use the other person to get that manifested in the world? And I would argue no right like people people Have a hard time making decisions right like so when when you’re Making someone’s frame bigger what you’re Implicitly saying is well, I don’t think you’re you’re capable of making this decision correct But then how are they supposed to? know how to evaluate the new framing and make the decision correctly in the new frame because like if You already judge them incapable of doing that how can you get them to participate in in the other framing correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and that is the problem of respecting boundaries and decision-making and you know look I mean I’ve got a video on on binary thinking and you don’t want to get stuck in binary thinking And I say clearly in the video you also often need to use a binary to make a decision Click that is required. So I’m not saying you can’t ever Use a binary right but getting stuck on binary thinking is different But getting stuck on binary thinking is different It’s like dualism is a good example saying and people do this all the time, right? They say well, I’m not a dualist, but between these two things. It’s like well, then you’re a dualist like you pick two things It’s not hard. And so people project this stuff out it projecting their intents and in their Reasonings and their colorings of the world out on to others with this consideration thing And I don’t think it’s a valid a valid way to Interact with people like I don’t feel it’s at all You know something that you should be doing. I mean, I think it’s a projection of your own internal anger resentment Insecurity, whatever and there’s a lot of that projection. There’s a lot of that Insecurity projection going on and I don’t know Why people are so? You know are so stuck on that but They seem to be stuck on it like why do you care about other people and what they’re doing in the world? such that you’re you want to impose your Your considerations on them, right? Because your considerations are yours things that you find important in life are things that you personally find important in life And that’s fine You know, there’s nothing wrong with that and That’s a that’s part of the issue is that people are not respecting the boundaries of where they end and other people begin and That’s really important. You can’t just take everything that’s important to you and cast it on every other person that you find that’s not appropriate like there are boundaries in the world for a reason and There are interactions in the world that are important to maintain and you can’t just mix up what’s in your head with what other what should be in other people’s heads and That just destroys their focus and it doesn’t allow them to do things in the world It forces them into a situation where they can’t They can’t interact correctly So That that’s part of this consideration if it’s projection not all of it is But a lot of it seems to be then then there’s a problem like if if the issue is that You need to buy something at the store the global consideration of whether or not you should buy it at Walmart is not valid You’ve already decided to buy things like if you’re not buying things then the global consideration More important, but you’ve already narrowed down the possibilities Like why are people dragging in other things? Yeah, I think we also have to consider the agency of the other person right so if If your judgment truly is this person has not considered this option then What you want to do is you want to give that person the capacity to? realize a Way into the perspective that they’re missing and so you you want to grant them the insight and the capability to resolve this issue for themselves and When when you’re just handing them the frame Right like oh, this is the solution that you should think of your you’re short-cutting that process. You’re not letting them Step through The the considerations themselves But but you’re handing them right because one of the issues that I have with with people in in modern times is they? They don’t justify their positions very well right because they don’t have means to to get to a proper justification of of their position and so what that means is that We haven’t cultivated that skill right like and and what we want to do right like if we want to truly help the individual is is help them cultivate the skill of of Getting into into a certain insight right so if you think the consideration of the impact on the global economy when going to Walmart or whatever is important then Get to the point that the person can make that important to themselves right in in a relevant way instead of Implying that this is important and letting them participate in in in this game that you’re effectively Forcing them to participate, and I did want to address this CW weeks, what do you guys think of Andrew Bastin’s paradigm for research as a rule of thumb for such? Interaction right and this is listen affirm critique enrich Look I mean if you need procedures to tell you to participate in the world I mean then you need procedures tell you to participate in the world That’s great That’s not the optimal state right the optimal state is not to need the procedures But to be able to engage poetically with everything instead And then you can drop the procedures procedures are helpful because they do provide that stepping stone, so that’s not a no procedure statement It’s a yes, but also and I don’t think most people should need that like most people should learn to listen first and I don’t know how you affirm things. I really don’t most people don’t seem to bother I I don’t think critique is valid. I think acceptance is more important Feedback might be a better word Enrich yet if you can like a lot of this stuff is Assuming that people can do things that probably they actually can’t do There was a lot of people who cannot have a valid critique of something a lot of people so for example You can you can go and say well The reason why Elon Musk put a poll about letting Trump back on Twitter was okay, let me explain something to your son You don’t know you ain’t got no idea in fact. You probably don’t know all the possible reasons You’ve probably reduced this problem to I know why Elon Musk put that poll up about Trump on Twitter. No You don’t First of all if you think it’s a one reason You’re an idiot sorry you just are there’s lots of good reasons to do that One of them is free press Which you know to some extent is a genius move for a company You just paid 44 billion dollars for it with very little hope of recouping most of that money Another reason is engagement on the platform as such Because that increases the value of the platform Irrespective of the free press That’s two reasons Another reason is to gauge the zeitgeist of the people on the platform Right and because you’re getting the pre-press from the news You’re also gauging the exact guys of the people who aren’t on the platform at the same time That’s four reasons I Don’t think I have all the reasons okay, if you were just it to one You’re wrong Almost no decisions that people make especially people highly successful people like you must make are about one thing because that’s inefficient and suboptimal and Antithetical to progress in order to progress you get to wrap things up so that you can move forward rapidly This whole like well, I’m gonna make a dollar by working an hour thing Won’t get you very far not that you shouldn’t do it, right? But it’s not gonna get you Elon Musk wealthy That’s for sure and there’s nothing wrong with that. Not everybody should be Elon Musk wealthy Like I’m not a big fan of that. I’m or living in the woods myself literally so Whatever right like it’s not a big deal, but to criticize something Excuse me to criticize somebody that successful on something you Just don’t have the expertise to criticize them on is absurd right and Chris Kavanaugh did this and I if you you know kind of told him like Yeah, he’s trolling you because basically you’re not smart enough to understand what’s going on and that’s true. Sorry He’s just not smart enough and that’s the and that’s the problem Is that we often think we can criticize we often think we can understand what other people are saying We often think we can affirm it Right and and often people are in a titular and they can’t restate what I just said fair enough I don’t hold it against them. That’s normal. Like I it’s okay. I’m not upset when people can’t do that I’m upset when they clearly don’t get the point, but you know and whatever that’s my flaw But but it is it is sort of important to make those those distinctions Yeah, and I think when we’re taking some some lists like that, right like listen affirm critique and rich, right? it’s important to realize that those are options right and Have some sense of of what it means to do these things. Right? So I I’m allergic to to having a procedure be and be a response right because Getting into a procedure as well is is in some sense condescending. It’s breaking the flow of the conversation It’s it’s adding Well, it might add unnecessary distraction right like like There’s like mark said right like these things are not easy to to critique but also to affirm Right, like when when I say something you you better damn well know what I’m saying Before you affirm me because you if you affirm the wrong thing I’ll get upset because like like now you’re you’re implying that you understood me and You didn’t like what’s going on there, right? So These these these things have have their inherent danger, right? And I think the best answer is humility when when we’re on bull right like when someone asks us to make to For an opinion between A and B, right? like we can either say like I can’t answer the question for whatever reason or You say A or B because you think A or B is good and you should you should have A or B? With a reason for A or B, right? You shouldn’t just say A or B because you want to give an ounce right? Like you should you should have a justified reason for that answer else you say like I can’t make a justified decision between these two right like I just don’t know how to pick and And so when when we’re talking from humility, right? like we’re talking from a place of of of not know right like not certain and I think I think when we’re talking about techniques or whatever like that They should promote the not knowing this right like so the listening is is in some sense It’s implicit in that if you listen Then you know and therefore you can do these other things, right? But but yeah, like and and sometimes it doesn’t matter right like like sometimes a person just Doesn’t want to make the decision. They just don’t wanna they don’t want to do it and and what they’re actually asking for is not for you to To find a or B better but to help them out of their stuff Yeah, exactly Yeah, it’s and it really is about imposing values on others more often than not not all the time but fairly often that’s It’s a big it’s a big issue like, you know Are you sure that by saying what you’re saying you aren’t just imposing your values on other people unnecessarily? because maybe that’s Maybe that’s the issue like maybe maybe there’s something inside of you. That’s putting you in a situation that’s unhelpful Right to the other person so you’re trying to be considerate of them But in fact, you’re just doing something that’s projecting into them In in are we really always aware that we’re not actually rational most of the time like We I and the problem is that signals out there everywhere. Oh people are rational. No, they’re not that’s just wrong There’s no experimental evidence that says anything other than we’re almost never rational about anything ever It’s actually what the experiment scientific experiments say and you can well replication crisis and science gets it Okay, but you don’t have any evidence that people are rational most of the time when they’re making their decisions and And you don’t have evidence that they can be because if you look on an fMRI For example are using some other scanning method Takes a tremendous amount of energy to do the things that we tend to classify as rational most of the time We’re working on automatic pilot BB and we don’t know what we’re projecting We’ve no idea because we’re not really paying attention that much to what the results of what we’re saying actually are and how we feel about them and often We don’t appreciate You know that people aren’t obligated Right, so it was funny BOM a few months ago somebody came in and they said I’ll explain to me the meaning crisis And so I gave I get my quick explanation and then somebody else gave a very similar You know explanation using completely different framing and words, which is great wonderful And he’s why I don’t understand and it was like, okay But I’m not obligated to explain something in a way that you can understand like that’s not there’s no law that says I have to answer your question. There’s no law that says I have to answer a question in the way that you can understand it And there’s no law that says I have to keep trying to answer your question until you understand it I may be incapable of doing that You may be incapable of understanding me There’s no obligation there and that’s what you know, people get a lot wrapped up in that Oh, you need to do this because of this or you need to do that because of that really are you sure? And when you’re saying because of this and because of that is that your real motivation Right, or are you projecting that on other people? Like if something’s not important to me Then you saying you have to do this because of this is not valid That’s not important to me Like I don’t have to worry about the state of the global supply chain because I’m going to Walmart I don’t have to do that. It’s not important to me What’s important to me is what I need to get a Walmart you know and whether or not I should shop at Walmart or Target or something whatever whatever arbitrary set of decisions you want to make and The relevancy is important. It’s the most important thing I mean it John Breveke talks about it all the time for a reason because that’s the hard problem Nationality is not a hard problem. I agree a hard problem is What’s relevant and what should we pay attention to and that’s part of flattening the world when we try to make everything relevant And every one relevant well this point of view is really relevant to me And then that’s what why are you privileging that person over all the other people who have points of view? Well, that’s a good question. I bet you can’t explain that alright, and it gets really difficult really fast and that’s a problem like these are actual problems in the world that people run into and Making it worse is not making it better So you have to contain things in the frame that they’re at instead of ever Expanding them out and the expansion in a way is actually a flattening but we want to consider everything all at once No, I don’t want to do that. I can’t do that. I’m not gonna do that I’m only gonna consider the things that I’ve narrowed down to consider and and if that’s you know Not accounting for something then I will suffer the consequences of that. Don’t you worry? It’s okay right and and the problem with with reframing is your there’s unintended consequences, right so I Had this problem or have this problem all the time with people right where They They changed the subject of the conversation by by doing this refrain, right like so so there there is this Conversation going on about something and then But what about this right? Like have you considered this and it’s like Like I I know I have two options right like I have to reject you which which is Engage in a conflict effectively right or the conversation has to go to that subject right like that that sub stream of of what’s going on and And this stuff happens all the time right and I’m not saying it’s a problem to change the conversation right, but I I think If you if you say have you considered it’s better to say I want to talk about this part right and then Your you’re standing behind it right like it’s it’s it’s not an implicit well like it’s not a criticism right because if if you’re asking for have you considered right like you’re implicitly saying well, I Don’t see this being accounted for and I I think you should account for it right like because because you’re making it relevant right like saying saying you should consider something is is making it relevant and You there’s two ways in which things can be relevant right like what when you have this highly theoretical Framing where you’re just trying to explain everything right like you want to have this universal theory that accounts for every problem in the universe Then yes, right like everything can be added and everything has to be included and therefore it’s relevant Right, but when you’re just trying to do something in the here and now like making a decision whether to go to Walmart or not There’s only a really limited set of things that are relevant right like so have you considered? whether you have gas in your car or Have you considered whether you brought your money right like things like that right these are relevant But they’re only relevant if you’re assuming that the person hasn’t done Right like and and and so there’s an implicit Criticism in there right like you you you Yeah, like and you’re you’re you’re reframing the situation right like right like oh now I have to worry about whether I have gas in the car or I know I have to worry about it Right like so you’re you’re putting an obligation upon the other person But by doing that refrain Yeah, and and also so the thing that’s been occurring to me now is There’s a tyranny of universalism and materialism and If you’re a materialist and you’re trying to universalize what you’re really trying to do is get equality and You’re trying to not exclude you’re saying oh well you know look 80% You’re only considering 80% of the people or 80% of the problem or you’re using 80% of this it’s like well yeah, but I’m a pragmatist. I understand the losses are inevitable and so 80% pretty damn good from my perspective And if you want to care about the 20% well you can go do that but Making me care about the 20% is that’s a transgression like if you want to If you want to care for the lepers go care for the damn lepers don’t but don’t get on my ass because I’m not caring for The damn lepers like what the hell like it different people should be doing different things The problem with that is that you get to spread out and then nobody wants to cooperate anymore fair enough That’s why you build structures right that’s what structures are for there to enable cooperation between people and and let them take advantage of their skill sets and so there’s a tyranny in trying to measure everything and then trying to Account for the margin as Pidgeot would say right so when you say oh Well, you know look your your ethical system requires 130 IQ, right? Discussion that Peterson had with Harris in the fourth debate that they did there of those initial four debates and What about the other people right and then my point is well ethics has to include everybody or it’s not ethics Is this that simple? That doesn’t mean that everybody can equally involve themselves in the pursuit of ethics And it doesn’t mean everybody is an equal ethical agent it just means that ethics has to account for everybody But most other things don’t maybe no other things do or maybe no other things can’t Because there’s a lot of randomness out there right like you can’t expect Everybody to be able to engage with the Bible equally you can’t expect everybody to be able to engage with meditation Equally you can’t expect everybody to be able to engage with a deep philosophical discussion equally You can’t expect everybody to be able to understand what you’re talking about And you can’t expect yourself to be able to explain it to anybody. I think that’s a ridiculously high bar It’s totally insane, and it’s unhelpful It’s just not reasonable request for you to be able to do something for Everybody all at once that’s not reasonable and we tend to project our Care for the marginalized and Turn that into a reason to change everything and that’s not valid if you care for the marginalized you go do that I Support you right I am NOT also going to do that I’m going to care for the largest number that I can care for because that’s my Ethos that’s where I’m at. It’s a different place. There’s nothing wrong with either right, but there is something wrong if you’re saying you need to care about these 20 20 percent in your system no I don’t my system is okay if it doesn’t care about the 20 percent and And that’s the that’s the problem Yeah Yeah It’s it’s not only whether you should care about the 20 percent. It’s it’s also We we can’t do everything all the time all at once like this. There’s this thing about but combinatorially explosion right like if if everybody’s gonna have to deal with with your philosophy and with reading the Bible and with familiarizing themselves with the Eastern traditions and with getting up to date on the latest soccer match like like Like how do we privilege things right like like it’s not good to have everybody do everything and and we shouldn’t want them like to It in the end we we tell people things so that they can act in the world Right, so all they need to understand are the implications to their life and If if we go beyond that right and then we’re making a transgression right like we we we can’t make people do things right like but We want to provide the tools for people to make the right decision And You want to pick freedoms lunch because like Sure, so it’s it we are all marginalized. What did I fall into? Well, look, I mean you fell into creation Yes If you want to play the game of equality universalization and materialism By some measure we are all marginalized on more about on more than one axis all of us Now what? This is the problem with equality like making universal statements is lovely But it cannot tell you anything about how to act in the world So the fact that we’re all marginalized doesn’t help us understand anything even though it’s true Right truth is not gonna save you right truth truth is a is a state of a statement or a fact or a set of observations that is thoroughly unhelpful by itself Because the truth of something Doesn’t tell you what to do about it. This is roughly speaking the is our gap human guilt guillotine You haven’t looked it up. You can look up is our gap or human guillotine, right and I Like this I like this follow-up right equality is the reduction of view of the fruit of living an example of how Christ loved his disciples right it’s The reductionist view is also the flattening of the world and again This is what part of what we’re talking about when you try to flatten the world when you try to do this Oh excellent. Yes materialist reduction reductionist right or physicalist reductionist physicalist is what John Breveke calls it when you do that that ends up in equality and Equality is not the state that we have unless evolution is wrong like all Parts of the industry theory have to be wrong for equality to be true That’s why I don’t think equality is true. I think equality is Antithetical to evolution and I believe in the observation of evolution, right? When you flatten the world, right and that’s actually one thing we’re dealing with now when you flatten the world to notice only one Hierarchy with Christ at the top and then we’re all at the bottom You create a bunch of problems like you can’t cooperate with other people To do things because in order to cooperate with other people you need to build a tiny hierarchy beneath Christ in order to create a structure and rules and boundaries right and authorities and Get leaders in there, you know in gender leadership in order to be more efficient at building something bigger than one person can build So that’s a mini hierarchy underneath the larger hierarchy when you ignore that and squish the world you run into all kinds of problems This is part of the problem. I think with this idea of Christian anarchy, right? They don’t want to do things. All right, they don’t want to be responsible They want to build something bigger than themselves necessarily or bigger than we’ll say their immediate family or something And so they say oh I anarchy right and you know, really they’re talking about Christian pacifism and they don’t you know Responsibility fine fair enough, right But they don’t really understand it’s just you stuff the anarchists about idea because they’re extremely violent and they’ve caused revolutions like the way you cause a revolution historically speaking is you Get the anarchists upset which isn’t really hard And invite them into your place Right, and then they they start the revolution then the revolution to true revolutionaries Come come to the fore they shoot all the anarchists by the way And and then they take over and then maybe somebody else takes over because it’s usually the course of these revolutions when you actually dig into history you kind of see this pattern and so You you you know, you can’t just recognize one hierarchy in the world There are many hierarchies and we have to participate in many of them We can’t just flatten the world so that we can have one identity off You know, I’m just a follower of Jesus or reader of the Bible or a follower of Muhammad or you know I follow the tower or whatever the heck it is You can’t just reduce the world to that you have to live in it with other people with nature and with yourself You don’t know yourself that well. You don’t know what you’re projecting on. You don’t know what you’re What what sorts of damage you’re doing by by by just running around in the world and spewing whatever you’re spewing all over the place You have no idea and and it’s true for all of us So, you know, it’s a problem So yeah, like I want to take that into two tells right which which is purpose or calling right? so so there’s there’s an identity that that you get by pursuing a goal and That pursuing of the goal like going to Walmart puts you in a Relevance right like now you can discern things that are relevant to you and you can discern things that that are irrelevant to you and When when you have that relevance framing? Now you can plan a path to there, right? And then when you have the path right like when when you’re capable of manifesting what you want to manifest Then you can start being considered Right like you you can say well Like maybe I don’t want to take this highway right like I want to have the scenic Right like I want to be considerate of my mental health, right? I like I want to have this music playing to right but but you can’t start with with the music you can’t start with and then right like like There’s there’s a there’s a limit there, right? Like you you like at a certain point you need to go to the Walmart, right? You’re gonna need to be among people and you’re gonna need to make decisions in there and so there’s all of this this Bad stuff right or Stuff that you could be considerate about but but now you’re gonna have to project being considered in order to actually achieve your goal and and so yeah, like We we have to see Also in in how we’re affecting ourselves with our considerations, right? like because because when I’m I’m trying to be considerate of some things right like I’m I’m gonna Manifest some things in the world and I’m also not gonna manifest other things, right? so if if if I want to take scenic route, right like I Have to take extra time traveling right and that extra time traveling I can’t spend on being with my family or whatever right like this. There’s all of these costs in in In that determination right and then there’s also well like If if I take 15 minutes preparing for for going to Walmart, right? Because I want to have everything perfect then that 15 minutes I need I need to be considerate of the consequences of my consideration because now I have to spend 15 minutes every every time I want to take a trip, right and and that might involve me not wanting to do the preparations and instead of Being hesitant to do the trip and now become hesitant to do the preparations and I I’ve moved the problem a step back Yeah Exactly, I mean I think a Lot of this gets wrapped up in in this flattening of the language enough of the world and not understanding the different consideration of people in consideration of things or ideas right like being considerate towards somebody is different from Giving things consideration that that’s totally different and we’re completing the two out of what we were talking about before tolerance Right or kindness or passion or whatever which is not an untrammeled pure good in the world It’s not like I’m sorry. You can’t just solve all the problems by saying well I’m just gonna meet everybody with love and compassion It’s not gonna work. It’s not even an option and and by doing that you’re condescending to people like and maybe that’s okay But not in that case not if you’re doing it pre-judgmentally before you’ve even met them or know what they’re about You’re not pushing back on Peterson makes this point over and over again I don’t understand why this is a mystery to people. Yeah being nice to people weakens them Do you want weak people because that’s what you’re gonna get. Do you want ants? That’s how you get ants. You want weak people? That’s how you get weak people and you know It’s just frustrating because people are so upset about having to do the work And that’s really what this boils down to people are lazy People are lazy You know thinking is hard and nobody wants to do the work. They’re like fair enough I get it But don’t be mad at people who are doing the work because it’s hard and they’re having a rough day, you know like doing doing the work is is is difficult and Tolerance can certainly be negligence That is true Ethan. Um Ethan’s a little on the extreme side of the tolerance bad bad Equation in my opinion, however, we love Ethan and he’s not necessarily wrong. So yeah I know you should put that in the other last year. It’s consideration a Niceness the same thing I guess of my in my mind they’re not right. Yeah, I mean Look It’s you’re not always helping people when you’re being nice to them Period end of statement. I’m sorry. And can I tell you what that is? No, I’m sorry I can’t tell you when that you’ve put in the hard work yourself. Like really I’m not joking it’s hard and That’s why you need to have grace towards others when that you perceive that they do it wrong because a Maybe you’re wrong and they did it right and B maybe they screwed up, but we all screw up Like it’s not It’s not that hard Like do you have the same grace for the person doing the action as you have for the victim? There’s a good question to ask yourself Because maybe the person that you perceive as a victim was actually victimized But the person you perceive as the perpetrator of that victimization made a mistake Who should you have more? A Compassion for who should you have more grace for who should who should you you know? punish in that situation These are hard things I’m not proposing answers, but I’m saying did you are you spreading the grace around equally? Are you sure or are you just picking sides? Because I think you’re picking sides and you’re arbitrarily picking the side of the underdog In all cases which is elevating the margin which you know if you listen to Peugeot Jonathan Peugeot no don’t do that can’t make the margin the center You can’t focus on it to the exclusion of everything that isn’t in the margin That is an error. That’s a mistake not do that It’s bad Flat out Which which does not mean don’t serve the mark right? but maybe it means don’t serve the margin by Lifting it up to the center or by shining the light on it right like maybe what the margin needs is is to have a safe space on the margin instead of a Spotlight owner, so there’s there’s many ways to resolve the issue right and I I Think there’s a tour victim right like this. There’s the person that made the mistake right? There’s the person that’s being victimized, but then there’s also the situation right like I think we’re forgetting the situation which involves more people right because there’s other people that are judging what what is happening and and Interceding right and so what what what is the thing that you want to protect right like what what is the thing? That that that rectifies or redeems what just happened right because that that’s where you want to go well Do you want to redeem by redirecting all the attention towards the transgression right? Or do you want to redeem the situation by actually getting to a resolution and having everybody? feeling satisfied that that they they were a part of Manifesting something good in the world right and right and I think that We’re we’re getting to Too close to This personal sense of justice like oh what should happen is that this person should feel? good Individualism right and we’re prejudging that there’s a victim and we’re prejudging who the perpetrator is and maybe that’s not what happened Like maybe you’re read on the situation is just freaking wrong And maybe you’re casting something into the future that hasn’t happened, but we don’t want a bad leader Did you have any leader? Okay, is that even valid until you have a leader? How do you know they’re bad or not until they’ve led the thing I don’t I don’t get it I did want to address this I wanted to address this This issue right without a bridging ethic competing ethics can’t tolerate without risking harm The people preaching tolerance are also undermining America’s bridging standards the Bill of Rights. Yeah. Well, look I would say you don’t need individual ethics Just not necessary. Like it’s just not a requirement like ethics should be a universal and That’s a better way to do it now ethics is the art of Dealing with the conflict of virtues and values in the moment and that resolves that issue And the I would say morality is the implementation of that right, so I think that’s you know, super important to realize and and engage with You you you don’t want to get stuck in a continual Set of deconstructions. I don’t think that’s useful And you can if you start giving everybody individual Decisions individual responsibilities individual ethics it right because You can’t have competing ethics because who is to decide what a valid ethic is and what size to You know what what size to engage in like is if 40 people get together and decide this is their ethic Is that okay and then 40 other people get together and they have it competing at like that’s not okay How I like it’s all too arbitrary. So You can’t keep fractionating things down to the level of the individual It’s one of the areas that I disagree with Peterson on is this and this is on the individual, right? Because it doesn’t allow for ethics like you can’t be an ethical agent and an individual You gotta pick one Ethics doesn’t make any sense to a single person it can’t and also a single person can’t embody ethics because it involves the consideration of a bunch of people that you cannot meet and Are never going to meet and they’re never going to be able to know but your actions affect all of them That’s why you follow ethics and and that’s the problem So yeah, I think we should consider the state of people we’re interacting with and like I don’t I don’t know We’re talking about a state in the United States or a state like mental state or whatever but in some sense, it doesn’t matter right like Yes, right like we need to personalize our relationships, right? Like we need to find intimacy within our relationships, but there’s also an element in which people are fulfilling a role right like and In that sense, they’re they’re an object participating in a schema right so so depending on on what we’re what game we’re playing what are we trying to do right like are we in a board meeting and Like is is is the director talking and like should the secretary then have their say well No, right like even if they’re upset right like they go outside and be upset outside, right? So there there there is a sense of which considering the state is appropriate in In in certain types of interaction and other types of interaction are privileging something else to be manifested and so I Think what we consider is is a consequence of what are we doing? Yeah, and I think I think that you know the question of ethics and morality is a big question and We’ve actually covered that here It was a long conversation, but it was a good one and it’s not my only coverage of it But I think the problem is the But I think the problem is the the way people seem to be using the term ethics is the ideal or the I doze or the satanic form and morality is the implementation and I think framing it backwards is part of the confusion and I Think value is underneath your ethics And that’s it’s not shared ethics it’s shared ethic click again It has to be universal otherwise. It doesn’t actually work and that’s really the the issue for me Is that we’re very confused about these things and I Yeah, I know that I want I want to take that remark a little bit so I think the implication of this right is We can’t exchange value without shared ethics. It’s like no like the value Is in one person and another person, right? So so all all you need to do is is have a framework right? Not an attic, but a framework And I think that’s the problem with the ethics is that the ethics is not a framework Right not an attic but a framework that allows cooperation Right. Now if you want to say well It’s suboptimal right like that that cooperation could be organized differently Right could flow down from the attic and then it would be natural in some sense, right? And yes, but but no we can have cooperation right like we trade with China Like we’re not an agreement with China’s ethical system as the West but that doesn’t that doesn’t stop us from doing a whole bunch of things with them and then Yeah Meta meta ethics, okay. Yes, we add meta and then we add meta again and then we’ve solved it like that That’s just the perfect solution That it solves all problems can confirm I have a video on that obviously on navigating patterns because I hate Hate the word meta. It’s being so misused and it’s all based on a publishers marketing scam Congratulations for falling for a publishing marketing scam you muppets Yeah, I mean I don’t I Think that no you can’t be an individual and part of an ethical collective You can’t like actually can’t like no, that’s not a valid way of behaving in the language The word doesn’t the words don’t fit together I think that that really is the problem is that ethics has to be universal or it doesn’t work and so and Yeah, I want I want to I want to frame this a little bit, right? I Really describing you as an actual muppet and you’re taking offense you should be thrilled that somebody’s finally recognized yourself Yeah, like if you identify as a muppet you Could have the muppet epic with the rest of us we’re all muppet great But but yeah, so so I think you can be a person and in an ethical system, right but the individual implies That there’s an individual component to the ethical system like and and no relationship like when you say individual you are Purposely separating yourself from the relations you have in the wider world And I think that is an invalid frame. In other words, there’s no such thing as an individual Really? We were all born into creation or a creation and we’re stuck with the results of that or better or for worse Right and you can get all Calvinist about it and say aha Like a power of God and therefore however these Calvinists like to like to catch these crazy Determinism arguments and fair enough Like maybe you should but you were born and as far as anybody knows you didn’t have a choice in that And so you have to deal with that fact And so you’re not an individual because you couldn’t take care of yourself when you were born Right. So your parents had all kinds of imprinting on you that you can’t possibly even begin to understand and that’s okay It’s also bad, but you know, like it’s mostly good and And you can modify some of that yay in the moment journaling meditation Contemplation, right? Whatever prayer what going to church, right? Interacting with other people and say oh that other person doesn’t act like I remember my parents acting Maybe I can act differently to you, right? But but you’re still subject to all of those things like you weren’t dropped in this world conscious with no history that didn’t happen so therefore you’re not an individual and and that’s and and that’s the problem now the the problem of Individualism right I can’t escape being an individual. I’m the only proof I have that’s not true Not being an owner of the self doesn’t mean I don’t exist. I steward my life ownership is a myth Well, I don’t know about that You know On If ownership is a myth then you don’t own yourself And and I think actually Oddly ownership is not a myth, but you also don’t own yourself like it’s not just you in that head of yours That’s what you realize when you start meditating Verveki talks about this for Vicky’s meditation course is just excellent He talks about this right you close your eyes and suddenly you realize There’s all kinds of stuff going on in my head that I don’t normally engage and What is happening? Why is this going on and then over time through meditation contemplation Right reflection things like that you can gain more control over some of that you don’t gain complete control, but you know self control is a good place to start and I Mean you own the things in that you are responsible for your body because you own it Like it’s something that you need to care for And for your actions as well right you own your actions as an agent in the world It’s something you need to own and take responsibility for right as difficult as that may be These are definitely things that you own and You have to take them seriously in some sense or things are going to go horribly wrong for you This is part of Jordan Peterson’s message and not the interesting thing to me like Peterson Kind of clear about all this and I don’t I mean people hear stuff from Peterson and everyone’s hearing Things I’m sure but yeah, a lot of people are missing sort of larger message And that’s part of his message is that you don’t know what you’re up to So you don’t know what’s going on in your head You don’t know what drives every action that you take, but you’re still responsible for those actions and and that’s some You know that’s important to acknowledge You’re an agent in the world and Therefore right if you go and on YouTube and you get a YouTube audience you have some responsibility For having gathered that YouTube audience, you know, and if you don’t interact with them Like you never answer your comments or something then that’s gonna go away and you’re gonna create anger and resentment and Right righteous anger and resentment in that case because you didn’t care for your audience correctly I try not to make that mistake try to answer all my all my stuff and Grim story is said there is no agency and he’s way funner than you We are not as fun as Graham gris that I can assure you and we never Sometimes we get there but When I connect we’re not gonna be that way that much of the time like he can he’s got special skills I think yeah, like like that’s that’s the way that you’re right, right? If you’re funny, you’re right. That’s that’s the way Yeah, well and talking about ownership and responsibility and stuff like that, right like like part well not part of like the full reason we’re doing these live streams is to To get people to a place of having a discernment, right? So that they can take these responsibilities, right? So Consideration at first sight is a positive right? It’s like oh They’re like you’re you’re taking into account something that wasn’t taking into account Like that’s that’s good. Right? Like that’s just a natural plus But There’s their second-order effect, right? Like this implications, right? Like we were talking about like it’s costing resources, right? But it’s also reframing things right like it’s it’s it’s changing the consideration that you’re making right so there’s there’s a whole bunch of stuff happening and If you’re if you’re not looking at all this other stuff that’s happening the decision that you’re making is is Influenced right like you you’re biased in in in a certain direction and that’s that’s what we’re trying to overcome right like so when when we’re talking about ethics or whatever right like what it is important to to consider the connectedness of yourself with others right and and and then well when you have a system right like like you accept that you’re in a system Well, then maybe The responsibility that you have right or the ownership that you have Extends beyond yourself towards that system, right? And so now you have a responsibility of participation in the system But that participation in the system cannot be the same for every individual right like this People don’t don’t have the same capacity, right? So now now you have to account for the difference different Capacities and and the different priorities and all of that stuff in your ethical system And I got I got this thing right like what we’re having a trade agreement like like the trade agreement is Actually the opposite of an ethical system it is Putting things into words right or procedures so that we don’t have to be ethical in our behavior, right? Like because because now we can outsource our ethics to the agreement So so it it is actually the opposite right like you’re you’re effectively saying we don’t trust that this will happen in the right way and Therefore we need to police Yeah, no, that’s that’s that’s a good a good point and I think You know look Stewardship and ownership. I don’t know how you’re differentiating those two, but You’re going to die nothing allows you to escape the reality of your impending death because it’s gonna happen And we need to know that and I don’t think we try to escape death. I don’t I I don’t think that’s the correct way of looking at the world. I think that a Stewardship is roughly Something that you are Apart from and taking responsibility for and what we’re talking about is something that you are a part of and taking responsibility for those are different fundamental states and Those states are important. You are embedded in a creation Hopefully you believe that being is good because that is an excellent foundation and therefore you take ownership right and Responsibility for the things that are directly impacted by you that includes your body That includes your speech because you have control over that right? It’s very stoic way of thinking about the world. Do you have perfect control? No, and it’s also important to recognize that because mercy and grace are not just for other people They’re first for yourself and When that doesn’t happen, that’s a problem That’s a big problem Okay, when you outsource your ethics or the results of your activity in the world to someone or something else and I’m glad that you brought it up. Your life’s not not your own. It’s Christ’s yeah in some sense except He he still says render him to Caesar I don’t know how that’s possible the same and this is the problem with the concept like Christian anarchy, right? The reason why Christian anarchy can’t exist is either you’re misusing the term anarchy entirely or you’re misunderstanding of misusing the term Christianity entirely because they have a contradictory nature, right either You know Anarchy means no submission to authority, which is certainly the dictionary definition And and if you want to say no, it only means no submission to political authority, that’s not what it means But okay, even in that case the problem comes comes with an issue, right and that issue is Christ didn’t just say render unto Caesar, right? He also submitted to the authorities of Rome and the authorities of the Jews Right to the extent that he was crucified and and killed right like that happened So if you want to be a Christian a follower of Christ You have to submit to the authority of Rome which I would argue is political and the authority of the Jewish political local political system and so I Don’t see how you can be an anarchist in either of those situations I don’t think that the word anarchy is loaded at all I don’t think it has competing meanings words don’t have meanings see my video Meanings come from content plus context but anarchy is pretty clear and but anarchy is a statement of an identification against which is I know Manuel’s favorite topic identification against all Anarchy says is that I don’t want to replace Politics or political authority with anything. I just don’t want the political authority as though that’s an option in the world What do you think about identification against Emmanuel? How do you feel about it? Well, yes So so what what it’s saying is there can only be individual authority, right and then There’s some some natural progression from Individual authority to corporation right? So there’s there’s a presumption there There’s a presumption there that That some something beautiful will emerge right like and so that that is dependent upon the ethical framework of the participant right but So there’s a couple points there right so first of all like now Those participants have to be fully submerged in the ethical framework and effectively be proper self regulators because they’re explicitly rejecting the authority of the externality to regulate themselves In so far as they they’re gonna accept voluntarily the authority of others which Again, right so and then well, so let’s just say you’re gonna build structures From that point on right which might be possible right like at a certain point you you get to a scaling point Right, like you get to a point where the political authority right which is gonna arise which is like a contradiction, right? Like this we’re all cooperating Anyway, right. So we’re gonna have to make a new political structure to govern ourselves And that’s gonna be too far away from the individual right like now there’s gonna be conflicts as a consequence of space and time between people right like just because of the local culture and So you’re gonna run into the same problems that that we have right now, right? Like maybe they get resolved better because we’re all perfect Christians, which you can’t be by the way, but whatever right and And then we haven’t even talked about the problems between Those people and the people around them right because like if if you’re flat-out gonna reject authority like America’s not gonna like that. All right They’re gonna consider you as a threat and probably rightfully so right? You’re gonna get violent I mean anarchists are violent for a reason because they don’t want the state over them But they don’t have an option because they’re identifying against and yeah when you identify against you’re not identifying for And so you have a definitions problem, which is you’re not defining yourself For something you’re just rejecting something and if all you do is reject something Then you’re not able to conform and then that’s the problem What happens is anarchy which is just the ultimate statement of individualism, right? Just the ultimate statement I’m never gonna cooperate with anybody else ever again under any circumstances because I can’t because I’m rejecting the idea of a structure That would allow that to happen. That’s actually all anarchy is the statement of so then what happens is people get upset Because their agency in the world is reduced because it’s just them because the anarchy is the ultimate statement of individualism And then they say well, I’ve got to find other people like me because we’re tribal animals We’re not stupid like it’s not us who’s tribal animals tribalism is way before humans By the way, people seem to confuse that humans became tribalistic No long before humans evolved tribalism was in the animal kingdom and we were of the type of animals that were always tribal And so the problem is that anarchy can’t have categories because it’s identification against and a lot of words are like this Right. There are words that can’t have categories They defy categorization because they are identifying against the thing like Protestantism when you identify against a thing You just end up splintering forever and let’s let’s see if Ethan’s truck is quiet enough. Tell us Yeah, well potentially so so manual why don’t you go on your diatribe again about why Identifying against is a problem other than the fact of categorization doesn’t work Well, yes So when when we’re identifying against We’re we’re taking an identity that that is informed by the other right? So everything we do is in relationship to to the other thing and that means that that we’re being controlled by that Like it has possession over our actions Which it’s effectively being a demon It’s it’s it’s the sort of damocles that always hangs over you and you need to account for at all times Right because else you’re not identifying against any right so you can look an addiction again as identifying against Being under the state of influence, right? All all the things that I do in the world are now in some way related to maintaining my capacity to get into that state and That that means that like I am totally possessed like I have no freedom and depending on my ease of access to that right like like every action I I perform is gonna be in order to manifest out and then There’s My ethics right like we’ll have to submit to that like it will necessarily Have to be lesser than that because my highest value needs needs to be sustained and like it’s not the ethics and so You can you can even take to take that towards God right like so if you say God is everything right all the potential in the world then You lose the connection to all the potential in the world right and now we’re talking about Reciprocally narrowing to a subset right and and you you literally end up in a state where you cannot see the potential the potential is invisible right and so What what you want to do is you want to identify for something right in? Relationship to all the potential that there is so that you can use it when appropriate right so so the ideal state of being is is that you can take what is offered to you as an option and and manifest that in relation to to your goal to your talents right like your purpose like your calling and and When when you can? Constantly do that then you you answer into a state where you you can turn everything towards the good right like your your purpose is in service of the good and When when you’re identified against something for whatever reason right like there’s a bear crossing your path and You have to take an identity against the bear like now you can no longer do the good right like now You have to deal with the bear right and as long as long as you have to take that identity Identity against the bear you you can no longer manifest the good right and so that’s that’s the problem with anarchy right like your You cannot have this this identity as a primary consideration Like like you can have objections against whatever Political system whatever like that’s fine but There is a necessity for the system right like and you’re gonna have to have a level of Participation with the system whether that’s with the police or with her whether with the tax office right like you get to choose you got you got a pick one and and like I can tell you that like it’s better to pay the tax office because like You’re identifying against is going up when you have to deal with the police Right right, and I think our natural again our natural Inability to live as an individual on our own by ourselves unconnected from the world is at odds with hierarchy Right fair enough, so there’s a conflict there right we have to resolve that conflict in some fashion We have to be able to say you know what I really just want to do what I want to do how I want to do it when I want to do it where I want to do it but if I do that it takes a lot of time a lot of a lot of energy maybe I can’t Maybe I’m not smart enough. Maybe I don’t have enough strength. Maybe you know I mean you know maybe it takes two people to do it right or more right and so then I have to you know call somebody up right or you know Poor poor Ethan had to had to deal with me having the top down in the car And I was I made a mistake Right because I asked him and then I forgot to put the top up right and and but you get a ride from the airport to Thunderbank right and it’s just like okay marks marks a screw-up, and he just screwed it up And that happens right but we have to be able to accept those Conflicts to get what we want because otherwise he’s walking from from freaking Minneapolis Airport to Thunder Bay, Canada Take a walk because it’s you know six and a half hour drive or something so you know I mean he saves on gas But you know it’s a long walk and you get a walk with all your stuff Yeah, I just thought it was it was kind of funny when I got in there It’s like this bothers him absolutely zero because he has no hair at all Yeah, I really like the the identifying against as not a good thing Because if you you know to do the Peterson Triangle thing When you’re identifying Especially if you’re if you’re looking at things from a non dualistic perspective Which is the correct way to look at them because there’s no such thing as as dualism There’s just you’ve got you’ve got a point of you got a point up here, and then you have it It just goes in it just keeps going down till it becomes nothing or pure potential, and if you’re identifying against this You become inverted. It’s parasitic and where like you’re just pointing down to the ground until you become turn into nothing Where now if you have like a different point of identity you know and This point is in conflict not in frame here, so if this point is in conflict with this point this identity I mean, that’s better Versus just identifying against you’re just pointing down into nothing and you’re not going to create anything Nothing good is going to come out out of it, so You’re not pointed towards building anything Yeah, right or Well you can you can you can say well I need I need to build a fence right? For the neighbor and and then I get some money so I can get my head right like so you can’t build but the building is In service of getting the money which is in service of of doing the thing that you want So there but but there’s a fundamental thing right like you you can’t be generative in the right way Right like like that’s the problem like there’s always a perversion right like you can always say well like I I am a drunk right like I I Am having a bad day, and I still help the old lady cross the sidewalk And I did a good thing right because like you can’t do that right and people do that right like so I’m good for them because they should right, but they’re still stuck in that loop right like they’re still stuck in the loop of serving the alcohol and and It’s it’s it’s important to get out of the loop right and whatever loop it is right like there’s there’s there’s ways that that you can get caught in in walking in circles that that’s just not productive and It’s it’s it’s hard for us to to identify What that is right because the reason that we do it is because we’re reserving something that we think is necessary right like there’s always This this component about I have to do this right like for whatever justification you you’re bringing up yourself and and that’s the thing that keeps you in in the cycle so often I have to do this is Associated with Trump right like if I don’t get my my alcohol right I’m gonna feel shit I’m like I I can’t sustain that state right like I I So therefore it’s not an option to engage with that state and and the only way that you can get out is is to face that Right like you have to face that part of yourself that that keeps putting you into into that state right so if we’re talking about anarchy right like Like you’re rebelling like why why are you rebelling against the tour right like what is what is this authority doing to you? That that that is that bad right like okay They’re asking a lot of money from you from your income right, but they’re also providing you a place to get income right like and and a means to get to your work and all of that stuff right and When when someone takes the income from you on the road right? They’re gonna try and catch the bridge right or at least this year So so so that that stuff is all built in and and it’s like yeah like that’s suboptimal Right like there’s a lot of money going to wait right like they’re they’re not using your tax dollars No in a way that they could right or theoretically because maybe they are using In the way that they could because that’s the limitations of Working in large systems right like that might actually be true like how much optimization? can you still get out of this large system because because like It’s it’s hard right like like when I talk to people like sometimes. I’m I’m surprised that things even work at all right so so then like that There’s this large system with with all of these these separate things Moving individually, but also together and like that. That’s a miracle that that’s even works right and and so Yeah, like there’s there’s a tyrannical aspect to that right? but there’s a tyrannical aspect to Identifying against it as well right and and you’re just like well I chose this tyranny and like I’m I’m not choosing this other tyranny Which I can’t understand and can’t control right, but that’s yeah like where where’s that? Grounded quite like is that is that what kind of insecurity are you are you chasing at that point? Yeah, and Something that people don’t I feel like there’s this we have this aversion towards authority We think that like for some reason well We there are reasons that we that we know of we could get into but We seem to confuse everyone seems to confuse authority with tyranny, and they’re not the same thing they’re they’re definitely not the same thing and They fail to understand that tyranny actually doesn’t last that long if somebody is a tyrant like I mean you do want to avoid tyrants because you know is That that really bad things can happen, but they don’t last that long like usually if a tyrant gets in power Things usually correct themselves Or the time the time will go away It’s not like you’re going to put a tyrant in power and just suffer under them forever and like you need somebody in power I Had a problem with tyranny is that people participate with right so people identify against a Spirit right like the perceived spirit of the tyranny right and when when that perceived spirit of oppression is big enough Then they’re they’re going to participate in and reinforce right so But yeah like that that is unsustainable like this just I don’t know this Philosophical experiment or something or maybe it’s actually a psychological experiment right like when you have a group of people and they’re cooperating and one group is voluntarily cooperating and the other group isn’t like the over the long run the cooperative group is going to outperform the Tyrannical group because there’s energy that the system has being wasted on on the imposition of The term right so In energy terms that is going to happen right, but like we should realize that the communist regime has Manifested itself for many many years before it Went away, and I would argue that the Nazi regime if they didn’t make a bunch of decisions also could have Maintained itself for considerable derange right like they were planning for a thousand years Like I don’t think they were idiots or fools or whatever so yeah like these these things are are iffy like And you could make the argument. They’re gonna always make the bad decision like maybe Yeah The thing is is that the fascism I Don’t mean Speaking beyond myself, but it seems to me that that was a lot more practical than than the communism I actually probably would have lasted a lot longer because that type of I mean that type of Governments had existed before In history like the Spartans did it for like 700 years, right? It’s just anti-christian It’s not it’s not a Christian way. It’s not a Christian way of organizing Society Yeah, yeah, I think I think I think it’s important to realize and I Carl Benjamin Sargon of Akkad did this first he said Fascism is just honest socialism in other words It’s the end of the road for all socialist schemes and in fascism and I think that’s actually correct I think that you know, I’m not a reductionist But things do reduce sometimes down to simpler forms and you can’t maintain any kind of socialism whatsoever Without it devolving into fascism. It’s not possible. I think it’s mathematically certain. I think if you model it and and people have That’s where it leads. I mean ultimately the state which is the larger entity Should take priority in all cases over the individual if top-down power from above is true Now I don’t believe top-down power from above is true the Christians don’t believe that either because that’s not their ethos And when you don’t understand that and it’s nuanced and it’s hard and not everybody can understand it I’m falling that may include you and it may include you with 110 IQ. I have no idea. I’m not making any claims I’m saying not everybody understands the nuance that top-down power from above is bullshit It’s wrong and that Christianity is not top-down power from above because we have freedom to Aim at the good or aim at the bad, right roughly speaking, right? We can enact good we can enact evil and we can act something that’s you know fully neutral in the world like just full of potential because the neutral position is also the position of potential the Potential could manifest good or bad right over time who knows right but That concept is difficult for people so they squish everything down to top-down power from above and therefore you’ve do the president says They don’t think that’s ridiculous and in the US it’s absolutely flat-out wrong I think the Congress sets the laws not the damn president not that he doesn’t do something you have to obey But yeah, he doesn’t get the laws Yeah I’ll just say this and let you guys get back to it it was somewhere in the Republic Plato uses this example of as a ship captain and He’s you know, he’s he’s conversing with We wrote about con and the other guy And he asked is is does the ship captain act purely for his own sake? Or is he acting for something else? It’s like well if he was acting purely for his own sake He wouldn’t be a ship captain because there wouldn’t be a ship So the the ship captain is submitting him to self. I don’t know I can’t remember the language and of course, I don’t speak Greek but The ship captain is submitting himself to a I’m gonna use the word higher He’s submitting himself to a higher identity. I mean, you don’t have to say it’s higher You could just say he’s submitting himself to a spirit that they all participate in so if he’s the final if he’s the last point of If he’s at the point of the triangle right here, that’s a power from that’s what you’re saying Top-down power and that’s not how it works because if he was there the ship would cease to work He’s submitting himself to something I Use the word higher identity our principality that everybody is participating in and he says Because it’s up which means under When you’re submitted you’re under yeah, I think it’s appropriate to language, you know, but Right, I think there’s a distinction between submitters and so right So if you’re submitting but you’re not surrendering authority that means that that you’re holding a different authority higher All right. So the ships the ships captain Might be submitting right like he might have a different authority or a different identity effectively Right besides being a ship captain that might be higher or lower than his identity of a ship captain Right, and I think when when you go to honor systems, right? What the owner system says is make the ship captain the highest identity and and therefore all other identities that you have or submitted Or surrendered to to being a ship captain, right and and that’s why you go down with your ship, right like Yeah, and but but there’s a different system, right? Which is well the the Christian system and like All religious Monotism systems that say no you have a different identity in relationship to God which is a higher identity right and then if if your identity as a ship kept comes into conflict with being a good person effectively Right, like now you don’t do what the ship captain is requiring you to do But instead you’re deferring to this higher authority and active according to that one Right then you don’t squish them but you don’t flatten them you say no There’s a lower hierarchy and a higher hierarchy at the top level. Whatever whatever that is for you Right. Right. So if your ship was Yeah, there’s I mean That’s the underlying ethics that everyone subscribes to in a society. That’s Christian. It’s like, okay I’m a ship captain, but the moment that that The ship comes into conflict with this this ethic that we all subscribe to or like The ship is going to run over a bunch of innocent people or whatever it’s like, okay stop destroyed whatever will will What will cease being a ship because it’s in conflict with this higher identity that we all subscribe to The thing is is like I don’t know if you So what’s going on with this whole leadership thing and people are My people are so they’re so scared of the leader blah blah blah, it’s like we have to have a ship captain and like even if we have a bad ship captain if we’re all orient orientated towards Ship and navigating a ship if we have a bad captain We’re going to replace him with a better captain like that’s like as long as we’re all Orientated towards the common goal and spirit. That’s why it’s it’s important when we’re constructing or building This this hierarchical structure that we’re doing it We state our purpose and or we identify the spirit that we are all looking towards and the moment that someone is not justly fitting their role whether it’s a Wherever it’s at in the hierarchy that that will be Replaced because like say you got a bad leader if that leader is submitted to the spirit of what it is We’re trying to do they’ll they’re going to have no problem stepping down and letting somebody more competent step in So we’re not trying to build you guys aren’t trying to build a tyranny And I think that that’s what I think that’s where some of the confusion comes in is we’re so we have such an animosity towards authority and leadership we think that The leadership and authority are synonymous with tyranny and people are trying to get like it’s not the same thing we have to submit ourselves all to the same common purpose or spirit whatever we want to call it and say if I become the leader and For it all lasts like two minutes or whatever until we see another leader come along I’ll have no problem submitting my or forfeiting my role to him because he’s more competent and he serves the purpose better so Where does it come from it comes from the deep postmodern? Fear right that the postmodern critique of World War two or communism is correct, right? What was their critique? Well a I would argue it’s not a critique. It’s an observation. They’re all idiots They’re still idiots. They’re still three years old like literally actually they’re not smart people. They’re just not I’m sorry They read right real pretty like but they ain’t that bright at the end of the day their critique was Well Hitler and Stalin had strong charismatic personalities and that’s how they were able to take over first of all that’s wrong It’s just a billion percent in every possible way a complete mischaracterization of historical events full-stop Not that Hitler wasn’t charismatic and not that Stalin wasn’t charismatic But that did not carry the day what carried the day in Stalin’s case was Everybody knew that Stalin ran the hit squad and they were afraid to not Put him in place of Lenin full stop Fear that’s all it was he ruled through fear. Okay in Hitler’s case the Chancellorship pre existed Hitler It was already there Someone was going to get that position and if they did well You know by saving Germany and I you could make some really strong and very good arguments that only Hitler could have done this Fair enough. Maybe only Hitler could have saved Germany. I’m actually on board with that that line of thinking I think that’s very likely that he was the only person capable of doing such a miraculous thing because it was miraculous then Being appointed Chancellor for life was a certainty So the person didn’t matter Okay But the postmodern critique says it’s top-down power from above and the way leaders get power is charisma and narrative Capture roughly speaking. I have a video a narrative capture, right? Rewriting the narrative so that people believe that narrative and that’s why they critique grand narrative What’s a grand narrative grand narrative is your religion? The problem is if as as I still maintain religion is inevitable and non optional Right, like you will have a religion whether you want one or not Then when you remove the grand narrative the religion whatever however you want to define that the thing next in line Becomes your new religion or grand narrative and then when you remove that layer of grand narrative The thing under right it just keeps going and and I think that’s the problem is people take the postmodern seriously Throw out all the garbage it’s all garbage Lit to really all of it. None of it is theirs. None of it is interesting They’re critiquing are stupid and they’re just dumb people who for some reason wrote books that are pretty pretty sound Right and confusing and they’re confusing because they’re wrong Not all the time but maybe right and then if you take that seriously You don’t want leaders because power corrupts because top-down power from above like all of these other Tropes that the postmoderns talked about to justify the fact that communism doesn’t work because it’s a bad idea It’s that something tonight Law but they want to defend it because they want to live in that utopia. So they’re defending their utopia That’s their religion by the way. My religion is a perfect political system ideal political system That’s what their whole ethos was to protect that concept and so top-down power from above grand narrative Power corrupts charisma is the thing that destroys our perfect Idealistic political system fair enough. All of that is obviously observably completely incorrect Historically inaccurate and absurd and no really. Yeah I Think there’s this other thing right which is also wrong like all power comes from below right, like which is also like there’s a interaction between the top and the bottom and And that there’s a dialogue between between those two which Right and and There’s there’s a revolutionary nature to that right like like even if you have a king right like they die at a certain point Right and then the order needs to be reset and then you have democracy which is like well We don’t want to wait for the king to die We’re gonna make it a little bit faster, right? but this idea that that there’s only the thing coming from below is is also wrong like yeah, cuz a Ship a ship isn’t a Ship needs a navigator. It doesn’t it doesn’t get places by just a bunch of or men randomly orring they need a navigator or captain atop that’s guiding them on where to go and the The captain needs the or men to propel the ship. So there’s there’s it’s what we call love There’s this love between the top and the expression at the bottom and they work to that’s what creation is of these two things coming together The creation of the ship is you have the identity You have the the leader at the top and the expression at the bottom in the in the form of the oarsmen And that what that is what creates a working ship. It’s it’s that’s what I think they call it Platonic love you don’t even don’t even have to call it that you just call it love So I I want to add something because I want to bring it back to considerations I want to be considerate of our topic And so so so why why is this leader important right like like it’s it’s doing the relevance realization for the ship right is saying well, you should be considering this you should be considering that and implicitly saying you shouldn’t be considering all the other stuff and that’s that’s the most important function right like this is the function of Right and and if we’re talking about collective cognition right like the role of the leader in collective cognition Is to say there’s relevant aspects to the world and there’s irrelevant aspects to the world And if we relate to the relevant alif fx of the world right like even if we’re like Not identical right because we’re not right We will still start moving in the same direction right and you can imagine that well like just just Several teams right and then one team runs into a boulder right, but they’re the front team right and everybody thought Well, we should we should be betting on that team to manifest the right thing It’s like well if we’re at the boulder then then the next team which is going slower But at a path that doesn’t have boulders on it will will manifest better in the world at a certain point in time Right and and and then we can assume That path and and then maybe split up again, right? So it’s like the the separateness Between these these organs effectively right like they’re manifesting different things in the world is something of value right like that’s that’s Where the evolution can apply itself right but They need to be walking the same path right else else. They’re not a unit right and so when when we’re talking about Whatever right like this movement or whatever right like when when we’re talking about a movement you have this perception of things walking towards the same thing right but When we’re walking right we’re walking in in a dimension right like so and it’s it’s really really hard to To see whether people are doing the same thing or whether they’re not doing the same thing right and and My argument is We’re not doing the same thing We’re actually being cross-purposes in in many ways right and And we were talking about walking in circles like like there’s a lot of working in circles And the reason why that is happening is because there’s no towels right and there’s no head that sets the tellers because there needs to be a a relation between the different teams that allows them to maintain the shared identity Yeah, and I think I think look leadership is a skill not everyone is a skill Not everyone can do it in fact almost no one can do it actually that’s actually true It can’t be trained in all people it can be trained in some people for sure you There are plenty there’s always plenty of room for improvement in leadership Almost no matter who you are right But what the leader does and maybe only the leaders and you is that? What you should be considering and who should consider what in other words your role in the structure that you’re Cooperating in to bring about something bigger than yourself is set by the leader It’s not only set by the leader But like the leader is supposed to maintain that and decide when it needs to change And sometimes the leader is gonna screw that up because people as it turns out are not perfect It’s still true Still still sticking by the I’m that’s a hill I’m willing to die on right and so you have to have some Grace for the leader and you have to have some grace for the structure because that’s not gonna be perfect And you have to some grace for everybody in the structure right and you can’t only have grace for the things that are Not properly in the structure victimized by the structure Disadvantaged by the structure if you’re always focused on the margins, then there is no consideration for the aim Because it’s one or the other like something gets crushed under the wheels Not happens. It’s going to happen. That’s why I’m a pragmatist pragmatist calculate casualties first Okay, I know this isn’t perfect because I’m not an idealist. Whatever it is is not gonna be perfect What’s the least amount of damage I can do and sometimes I get that horribly wrong or sure But the alternative is to do nothing and that is actually the only alternative waiting for the emergence to just come out of nowhere and be good and do the right thing and Manifest correctly is absurd and doesn’t work And also when when the structure grows right like because we’re talking about Load right like like how much can we bear right? And so when something grows its capacity to bear things outside of itself will increase and And I think that’s that’s the thing that people don’t realize often right like like When you grow you can be more considerate of other things right like when you’re not having to take care of your hunger Like you can spend that energy in In ways that that are good and so you first need to get to the place where you’re not hungry and and that Yeah, that sucks right and and there’s people gonna be left behind but but there’s gonna be people left behind either way like and it’s When we were talking about the identifying against right like what one of the consequences of identifying against is is you’re so focused on what you’re identifying on That you don’t see the things that you’re leaving behind, but you don’t see the potential that is not manifest And and it’s it’s really easy to say well like it’s just potential and like it’s not guaranteed and therefore I like it doesn’t count the same way as the thing that’s right in front of me Right and and to some extent that is true right like you You you need to deal with the things that you have and that you can do when you can’t always have a growth mindset But but in other ways right like if you’re doing that for too long Then you’re gonna be stuck at a place that you’re stuck at forever, and that’s also Right right, but I but I want to I want to go back and emphasize You know the the core issue which is if you try to save everyone Everyone dies right and very much the problem of society right now is that we are trying to accommodate tiny actual tiny small in quantity numbers of people by Disadvantaging everyone else right and so You know and and and that comes from the belief that the 1% is preying on the 99 which is a load of garbage It’s complete and utter nonsense. It’s just false It’s as false as a thing can possibly get like it is just wrong You know not that that doesn’t ever happen, but it’s not what’s actually happening and and When we try to save 10% of the population Right and and give them the world that they want We destroy the world that the 90% has been successfully living it. I don’t think that’s a good trade Especially not if maybe those 10% can’t be put in a world That’s gonna give them what they want because maybe 10% of the population is crazy And they want things that they can never possibly have or that if they had them would destroy that Maybe I don’t know I’m not making a claim I’m just saying have you considered trying to accommodate a small number of people? When a large number of people is quite comfortable might be detrimental to everyone and everyone might actually lose that game sounds like you’re you’re explaining a worldwide pandemic from the last two years or or a movement for Rights of a certain group that’s less than 10% of the population or Or or a movement against 1% of the population Yeah Well, I’ve probably said everything I have that’s worth saying so I’ll make room for someone else. Good luck guys. Yeah. Thanks for being on people There’s a link in the description so you can hop in and join us also We’d love to have questions in the comment section Yeah, it’s so nice to have Ethan Ethan is a very deep thinker contrary to his own His own instincts he’s quite quite interesting and he always has good stuff to say So it’s good to see him in in the stream participating. But yeah, he does a lot of thinking for sure Too much thinking but Yeah, he knows he knows so much stuff it’s really good any read the Republic good for him and he went through my buddy Jack’s ancient Greece declassified Audio thingy there for the public Yeah, it’s a podcast that is correct Is this actually booms room is he actually coming up? Yeah, sounds like No You’re audio before we get destroyed by feedback feedback. Oh, there we go Really comfortable I got there’s feedback a bunch of noise or something Oh Yeah, well you still owe me a talk dude Yeah, anytime man, I enjoyed that last one we did that was it that was a lot of fun Yes, yes Yeah Yeah, that was a lot of fun. I enjoyed that I’ve never really seen somebody kind of do that sort of format. It was cool So, yeah, what do you want to bring in I don’t know. I just saw you guys on live and hopped in here five minutes ago. What were you guys talking about? Being considerate and how that Relates to well the bigger problems, right? so we would we were talking about the problem of hierarchy and and the problem of Political systems and and the fears that people have in relation to these things I heard mark talking a little bit about that You know the the calculus, you know, you got to be really You know kind of cold and calculated with things. Otherwise everybody’s gonna die, you know, you got to assume These people are gonna get crushed under the wheel. How do you mitigate that and make that as few people? as possible I Don’t know how deep you want to get go in talking about all that other lockdown stuff probably not a good idea, but But yeah that that I Think that the past two years has been a very interesting Psychological analysis on humanity So you said you were talking about being rebellious before with me Maybe you have a real-life example of how people being considerate was actually Manifesting something inconsiderate in your life and how you Just Just everybody that had small businesses in my state they you know got shut down or they had a supply issue They couldn’t get things there on time There were a lot of mandates And just these arbitrary mandates You know people weren’t allowed to go out so barber shops and stuff like that shut down I had a Computer repair shop I couldn’t get parts for months I had another friend that owned a racetrack Nobody was coming out for the races anymore. You know, everybody was just kind of locked down for two years and It took it after two years. It just took its toll on all these small businesses and it destroyed every one of us You know, I lost my business my friends lost their business We’d never got any kind of Help like, you know, they were they were doling out this government money these stimulus. I didn’t know of any small business That received a stimulus and I applied to all kinds of things. I Mean I could go on and on it was just a nightmare. I’m glad it’s over. I hope I can set myself up in a position to where I’m not gonna be torn apart like that. So that’s been a struggle trying to figure that out Yeah Yeah, and I think I think you know, what was the appeal of Shutting down the business. It’s well, we have to be considerate of their customers We have to be considerate of the global implications of a pandemic we have to be considerate of the Of the elderly people right we have to be considerate right and so there’s all this ways all these ways in which we were manipulated by consideration of other people and Maybe in ways we shouldn’t have because we were being forced to take responsibility for other people and Look to some extent yes But that can be good can be pushed too far and that was its weaponized compassion Like that was weaponized compassion So you have to have compassion for the elderly you have to consider their their point of view and the fact that they’re gonna be inconvenienced and and and they could die and all of this stuff Irrespective of how many other people died, right? And again, this is that what are you considering because if all you’re considering is the margin then you’re excluding everything else and Destroying the world for for for that for that group. Yeah Yeah, the core of it’s the guilt the guilt trips that you know, everybody sends each other on That’s the primary steering wheel if you will of the whole shebang Do you oh you feel bad grandma? Oh, you know, what about all these other people? And it’s just kind of steering people to behave this way and that way there’s several levers But the guilt is really the main steering wheel Twisting people all around Yeah Yeah, what is what is guilt right guilt is the movement of attention what is consideration that’s the movement of attention Why are you moving somebody else’s attention? Do you have good intent when you’re doing that? Are you doing it for the good? Are you moving somebody’s attention to manipulate them because you you know There are other possibilities other than well, I’m doing it for their own good Are you are you doing it for your own good? Because that’s what I’m concerned with because again, we don’t know what we’re up to Peterson makes this very clear You don’t know what you’re up to. You have no idea That’s probably true for most people to an extent that they don’t appreciate and and that Movement of attention through consideration is a big problem And I think I think what this leads to is first order and second order effects, right? So if if I do something in the here and now it’s really It’s fairly easy to see the direct implications of my action, right? So when when you’re like well This happened and then this happened the chain of causality is obvious to everybody Like when when I do something and something happens next week as A consequence of me doing something now Am I gonna ever get credit for that? Like what is the mechanism by which I know I did the right thing, right? And so like there might there might be no way of Returning that credit to to that action, right? Like there might be no way of ever figuring this out, right? So there’s there’s a problem there and then well you can see how that when you’re in an incentive structure, right? Like oh like I have to take responsibility as a leader for my actions, right? Like like are you are you taking responsibility for the perceived? Implications right like oh like there’s the statistics right? Like this is the hospital admissions right like that’s a metric and everybody can judge me on that metric so I’m gonna make policy on that metric or Are you gonna judge yourself by the second order or the refact, right? And at that point You you have no ground to stand up upon because like this there’s no way that you can ever justify that in In a quantitative manner right like like the quantitative measurement to to make that up is is It’s always gonna be contested right like there’s always more right like and then you can you can say well like okay So what all the all the second order effects manifest within this first year? But like what about the 20 year right like that like there’s always more and more and more And and then we haven’t even talked about about the spirit right like so there’s there’s a spiritual component right like the one of the objections Towards wearing masks is that has implications for the social interactions within society right like so there’s a spiritual component that isn’t even understandable in in in the way that that’s gonna reverberate into the future right yeah because So if as we increase in population That there’s like all this disease now We have to wear masks permanently or something or social distance permanently And then there’s gonna be this other thing stacked on top of us Maybe we’re we have to wear sunglasses all the time for some reason because all the cell phone screens are so bright We’ll go blind I don’t know, but there’s just gonna be all this stuff added on to us Where we’re not even gonna be like people that see each other anymore Unless we figure out like what do we do about this you know what do you do about? Disease what is effective? What is the right thing to do that? That’s a really? Important point you made there. What is the right thing to do? There’s not a central pillar anymore There’s all these people that are like oh, this is the right thing. That’s the right thing over there I Don’t know if it’s always been like that it feels like there’s more Pull in all kinds of different directions more pillars that people are gathering or gathering around they’re like oh my things right your things wrong and and it seems just like crazy like a crazy minefield of bullshit Yeah, I think exactly right. It’s the individualism and the Sort of splintering of things through identified catching against right. I’m not the person that takes the shot You’re the people that doesn’t take the shot. That’s an identification against but because that doesn’t define something in clear category and it can’t then right everything splinters and those people aren’t the same people and There they think they’re the same people because they know they’re not those people right, but Like the reasons for example why you wouldn’t want to take a shot Very and so saying everybody who doesn’t take the shot is the same doesn’t make any sense Because it can’t be true because there’s lots of reasons for people not to take a shot Any kind of shot right? There’s lots of the reasons to be against something like that Which is it an action in the world with consequences and there’s very few reasons to be for something like that of that nature not everything but something like that and so for example You know you can you can you can end up in a situation where you say look I’m against Political power or I’m against political authority. Well now you’re an anarchist. Congratulations. Welcome to anarchy. Okay, but How are you gonna build something in the world? What are you for? Because you don’t have a tea loss. You don’t have a purpose You’ve just set yourself apart from something with the purpose Right and for the purpose of identifying yourself, but it cannot ever provide identity Like me saying I’m an anarchist says nothing about me At all. It just doesn’t give you any useful information in the world about my level of interaction About what I care about about what I think right? It’s it’s a single axis of identification that doesn’t relate to anything that can be generative or Participated with right and so like the game a game be craziness that Jordan Hall was pushing for a while and other people Right. They just identify against game a click They’re like we don’t know what the better solution is, but we know what we’re doing now doesn’t work Thanks genius. That’s as unhelpful a statement as you could possibly make in the world and and we know there’s a better way And we’re just gonna label it game B. What if there are seven better ways now? what What does that mean? Like I am this is why when you ask them a B sounds great. How do I participate? They never have an answer. They do not have an answer They just say well, you can’t participate with game a if you’re gonna participate with game B. Oh fantastic. That’s so helpful Yeah, I’ll get right out. I’ll get right on that right away. You can say anything You can give me a useful frame at all And the problem is right like if if they’re gonna give a concrete answer like Is that game B or is that a concrete answer that’s independent of game B, right? It’s like like why why is putting it in the game a game B framing correct? Because because and and this Right, like we’re talking about framing right and it’s like, okay So what what is anarchy? Well, I want you to look at me in this way because I find these things important right like that’s what you’re saying when you introduce yourself in whatever identity right like like this is important about me and and so What does it say about you? When what is important about you is a not something else like like like Who are you at that point? Like what what am I relating to? and so Yeah, I think I think it’s it’s really important right to look at at this this reframing and And what what are we what are we? What are we pointing out right because that? that is When when we’re in a frame right like in some sense that is the authority Right like because it determines what we see right like it determines our collective participation, right? And so in some sense Changing the frame of the group right like of this conversation is is taking leadership Like like it is it is literally the act of leadership, right? And so that that changing can Manifest in in different ways right like either what my changing the frame is Gonna conflict with you right and now we’re gonna have to resolve the conflict or it’s producing a pathway Towards something else right like towards the manifestation that we want to have as a group and And I I think it’s really important that when we’re having conversations Right and I think this is related to to being in good faith right like when we’re having in conversations we want to always invite the spirit that is allowing us to to manifest a new thing right and we want to have clarity clarity about the relevance right like the the things that we need to attend to that are important and When when we’re not in that right like now We’re we’re effectively bouncing around Individuals Necessities right like oh I find this important right like I What you’re talking about is what corporations are doing and Corporations are you know doing all these different other things, but you know that’s a group of individuals Trying to achieve a goal trying to do a bigger thing Yet When something That’s not politically correct or something that doesn’t Line up with the mainstream or that or what the public eye deems acceptable they all in unison Change they they go They go in that direction and I wonder You know I know that we know There’s you know manipulation on the television and you know Just all this rhetoric out there, but really how much of that is it is under Someone’s thumb you know you know how much of that is? How much of that can you blame The corporations for and then how much of that can you blame the individual for not having the willpower to? Ignore it so makes sense what I’m saying Or is that yeah, I know So you know Let me finish so yeah, I mean I think that’s correct like some things are inevitable right like Influence and and corruption it’s not going to zero That’s not gonna happen okay, so the fact that it exists is not interesting or important It is just a fact of the world all right. You are not bringing it to zero You’re not getting perfect leaders these things are not happening and Because those things are not happening the question that you have to ask yourself is how much and and when is it too far and? And that’s the that’s the that’s the question like when is it too far well that’s hard to do and so people would rather take it to zero and You know so would I but it’s not going to be zero so then the question is is there a puppet master pulling the strings like? Is there an actual conspiracy and the answer usually is no there should be seven people with similar enough goals that the next step is Something that they want you know to to enable and usually that next step is something like Crash the economy. Why would you want to crash the economy? Well, let’s suppose you’re an anarchist crashing the economy means brings brings means bringing down the government now I would I would argue you’re an idiot think that but most people are idiots and they think that right now if you have hundreds of billions of dollars Invested in a scheme that requires the destruction of retail shops Because you want to put in a delivery model and take over the retail model where people go to stores Then you also want to crash the economy Why else would you want to crash the economy well let’s suppose? You think that free health care Should be paid for by the government forever for everyone and you didn’t get what you wanted last time Okay, so you might want to crash the economy because health care is affected by the economy right let’s suppose Instead that you have a dream that if you lived in the Weimar Republic and then into you know pre World War two that you would be the hero and That requires crashing the economy you want to crash the economy now All of these people do not agree on the outcome right they don’t agree on the ultimate outcome But they all agree that the economy should crash and they’re all very hopeful that if the economy crashes they’ll get what they want and So it’s a confusion right so now it looks like there’s one person trying to crash the economy in fact there’s many groups trying to crash the economy for completely different reasons and Those reasons are not compatible with one another like they do not mesh and And they may seem like they do but but they actually don’t and that’s the problem is that well now it looks like a conspiracy Because the thing happened and maybe the reason why the thing happened was completely unintentional because maybe it turns out that when you try to make everybody stay home and in doing so you You make them You you force them into a situation where they don’t buy as much stuff for whatever reason Then the whole economy goes down right and but it doesn’t go away and the the systems that rely on Buying things no longer function correctly and that causes a global supply chain issue that takes six to twelve months to manifest And then takes another year or two to work out Actually happens and then that destroys your delivery business because it turns out you can’t get the goods to deliver anymore And people get pissed off and they go to the store why because the store has inventory They weren’t counting on a just-in-time delivery system That’s enabled by stores with inventory in other words the whole Amazon business model Actually relies on the retail industry to be almost as big as it is and no smaller or They can’t do what they do because they’re taking advantages of inefficiencies in the retail system and So it’s not an option for them to kill the retail system because they rely on it Because they rely on it they’re parasitic upon it and they don’t know that but all these things look like conspiracies When in fact there a lot of the were just second-order effects from stupid decisions Yeah, I definitely think there was like a big push to corral people in a In a desirable direction you know mainly the destruction of small businesses and the inflation of bigger businesses because When a lot of people lost their their business they had to go work for a big company so that It just like transmuted that in favor of those people And maybe that’ll change later that that would be great. I Don’t know it seems like a pretty big hit to all the people that I know This year though I have seen some people around here that didn’t have businesses start one because their last life got nuked by all this stuff and They wouldn’t want to do something different. So that’s a good thing. That’s a silver lining. I’ve seen too But yeah, I just see a lot more people working at home They’re not out the the whole kind of everything has shifted. I guess I’m waiting around for this next big thing to happen. Whatever it’s gonna be. I Don’t know what it’s gonna be just the thing that’s You’re not doing this right or you’re not doing that and you can’t wait to do something Work or you know, you can’t run your business. You have to shut your gym down. I don’t know whatever it’s gonna be Maybe it’ll be another Disease thing or maybe it’ll be something totally different, but there’s gonna be something because I think it went really well For For the people that wanted to go well We’ll see like it like I think there’s there’s always Repercussions that or second-order effects of of the imposition the people are realizing right like because Because fool me once shame on you, right? But fool me twice and I think we’re at the fool me twice stage and a lot of people are Waking up right? It’s like well Yeah, there was there was this drama but like Like is was the drama as bad as as we told it was in the moment? like was it would all the sacrifice and people are gonna end up reevaluating and I actually saw this new development in the Netherlands where they’re thinking of of making an apology for The the actions of the Dutch state during slavery or whatever like on a bunch of points And then there was a lawsuit by the lobbyist for the apology to stop the apology Because they didn’t think it went fair enough and and it’s even more funny because they they just got flat-out denied and says like no like the legal system has as no influence here because it’s not an obligation of of The state to make this apology like there’s nothing saying that the state has to do this right like it’s a voluntary action But but the fact that they want to do the thing That they want to stop the thing that they’re intending to have happen is Is so amazing to me right like like the lack of gratitude with within that is It’s just insane like it’s it’s just insane and at that point right like From my perspective, but you’re no longer a good actor like like you’re not gonna be grateful for the thing That you’re getting while you’re not Like you don’t have right to it, but like like this is what the judge literally said like this There’s no reason for the state to do this, which is actually a reason maybe not to do it But that’s a different point right like this. Yeah, nobody thinks of like slave drivers over in the Netherlands like you know, I Didn’t I’ve never thought that Right, but but it turns out that actually most of the slaves It’s like a hub a slave hub, huh? Okay, I didn’t know that well No, because they’re the shipping they were always shipping magnets Greek Greece and and and the Netherlands The two big shipping empires for the goal. I think what it goes started it Portugal was for a while. Yeah. Well look Spain and Portugal started all the bad things. That’s true But but actually most of the slaves Were transported on Dutch Dutch ships. I Think I think that that’s that’s pretty well established. But but the thing is that Look, there’s there’s a way in which they’re redirecting the consideration, right? towards redirecting the attention towards this one issue and it’s invalid because This one issue is wrapped up in a history that may or may not be portrayed accurately And also what do you do about past events? How do you take responsibility? Or present events because you know, why should you apologize for slavery while there’s still slavery going on everywhere? Like let’s fix that like how about we all fucked up all humans are really shitty to each other in the past There’s still some that are shitty now. They haven’t got the memo that we’re not doing that as a species anymore We’re trying to be cool We’ll build you a waterline and some like tents and show you how to farm or whatever We got to do what everybody’s trying to do the better thing here And there’s some people that don’t know that and maybe we should help remind them in some way shape or form I don’t know we could all get behind that instead of the apology tour like this useless apology tour that really I Mean, there’s people dying out there man Child trafficking you name it blah blah blah That’s a problem we can tackle it’s not like an impossible thing. It’s probably easier than going to the moon, right? I don’t know. I’m not a scientist Well that is actually a good question is that easier than going to them because it might not be Like we were talking about having having these these large systems operate and like at some level It’s it’s a miracle right like There’s a ton of incompetent unmotivated people That that are working in a structure That are working in a structure and like it still kind of does something Yeah, well, that’s because people Love someone You know, that’s the whole reason any of this works That somebody rolls out of bed in the morning and make sure the power grids working and your air conditions operating the plumbing is flowing Because you know that they love somebody or they have a family that they love and they want to take care of and now as We know Dismeaning crisis that’s in jeopardy People in the next 20 years aren’t gonna have that. So are we going to have lights in? Cars and I don’t know maybe on a limited scale Well, you know and also do they love just someone or do they love something like do they have a higher ideal that they’re enacting By getting up at 5 a.m And making sure the water’s flowing or getting up at 4 in the morning working overnight shift to make sure the electricity stays on Like maybe they have a lot of something higher than just the people in the family around them because maybe they’re not staunch Individualists right? Maybe they understand they’re embedded in something much bigger than themselves That’s much more important than their discomfort at 3 a.m When they have to take care of these things like that’s why I We’re giving up to a higher purpose to a higher That’s a lot of love there man. Yeah, that’s a lot of love for people and If you don’t have that, yeah, we don’t have this conversation the internet all this other cool stuff that we got But but anyway, I got a hop off here. I just I just saw you guys. I want to jump in I see you on here again. I’ll I’ll stop by but thanks for having me on Yep, see you guys. Have a good talk So So yeah, thanks for Participating everybody else who wants to participate please hop in or participate through the chat with us And yeah, like this there’s there’s this thing right? Like I’m gonna connect this zero casualty delusion to to this idea of Measuring things right? I like the thing that we’re judged upon is the measurement right like that’s the thing that well that we can be held to account for because the rest is is ineffable and And yeah, right. So we’re gonna make the rules that that optimize for the things that we can optimize for and and then there’s there’s also the buying off of of of guilt or responsibility with with just over Regulating things so that things can never be brought back to you right like like this is one of the problems I have with the legal system in in the US right like if you can sue everybody for everything and Everybody needs to defend themselves against the possibility right like there’s there’s a lot of load that comes with that I mean in the Netherlands like they have something similar right, but but they don’t have to protect themselves legally But now they have to protect themselves against the insurance companies right because they have to justify why they’re doing the things They do in the way that they’re doing them is like well like why is the insurance company? Deciding what the doctor is doing and whether that’s correct or Right, right. Well and and and the biggest problem with the zero casualty dilution is that what you’re doing by Trying to optimize to zero or four zero is you are not optimizing because that’s not optimization, right that’s Cutting things off right that zero is is it a weird weird number right a strange number as Peterson says and you are Giving up or you know relinquishing your responsibility to discern All right, you’re you’re you’re saying I don’t want to make a decision between the 80% and the 20% I don’t want to make a decision between harming You know 1% of the people that are harming 99% of people I’d rather Not do that and that’s what you’re doing you’re trying to avoid discernment trying to avoid judgment You’re trying to avoid making a decision That’s why to the fact tolerance tolerance is dangerous right because if you’re just too tolerant You’re just avoiding making a decision you’re being a lazy Irresponsible person and like look fair enough. We’re all lazy and irresponsible But when that’s your ethos when you’re just trying to avoid personal responsibility and trying to avoid harm right all you do is stagnate yourself into inaction and when you’re trying to get people to Act in the world in a way that can’t cause harm to other people You are paralyzing them right or setting them up for failure and I don’t like either of those options right and you still cutting them off from grace and redemption Right all of those problems are still there. So this Claim this guilt claim of being inconsiderate is a cudgel that you’re used against your enemies to avoid your own responsibility for being a decent human being All right, and again like are you giving the same consideration to the to the alleged perpetrator as you are to the victim? And are you sure you’re right about what happened? The number of times I get people saying you were mean to that person and I asked them and they’re like no I think you were mean at all That was your judgment not theirs in the moment. All right like that in other words thing you think happened didn’t happen Worth considering you don’t know what’s going on You don’t know what your you know, what your ethos is and why you you know have that Have that desire to use that cudgel, but it is a cudgel So I listened to this this podcast from Tom Holland called the main of Holland and he was talking about the Dutch ethos and How we were Effectively we’re we’re trying to reclaim land from the water, right? Which is literally a biblical thing, right like they making water out of chaos And then there was this this thing about city walls, right? Like so that there’s this walling thing and then there was this Protestant movement that was trying to wall itself off from the Catholic imposition Manifested through the Spaniards that were taking over over the Netherlands So so he was he was going through all of this right and and and what what is it? Well, like we we can have this skin right like we can have this garment of skin that protects us, right? And he eventually and and you should listen to this podcast because it’s it’s full of symbolism and it’s awesome But he eventually came into well, we’re trying to organize We’re trying to organize the house that we’re living in neatly and and the role of the Dutch maid is in some sense She’s she’s protecting the house from entropy Which was something ridiculous during that time because like like why would you clean? The the streets in front of your house, but like why would you? why would you take responsibility for for that that stuff and and The point was that that is how you gain purity right like that’s How you keep yourself pure in the eyes of God, right? and so there there was there was a a Measurement of defense but but the defense was was manifested in in the spiritual right like in it is in in keeping the right house You have the right ground for being the right person right like your personality Evolves in as a consequence of what you’re manifesting in the world and Well, Van de Klay is gonna love this right because this is all based on a Calvinist Theology right and and and the other there’s there’s this element in in this purity that That is yeah like it is It is taken to the material and and he was also making this this distinction right like so so So during that time which which was the introduction of the Golden Age in the Netherlands, right? You you get you get this focus to material Gains and material manifestations that that is hyper in in in in a real way, right like like There was there were things possible that weren’t possible before right and so there was a temptation connected to to that option and And and and yeah, right like you you need to resist that temptation But but you can’t ignore it right because there’s a whole bunch of potential in there, right? So like that that is Navigating well like in some sense and like we’re gonna we’re gonna have to connect this back to affluence, right? Because I think I think affluence is the thing that allows you to be considerate like it is actually That which allows you to to do other things and We’ve we’re taking this for granted like like we’re taking this for granted that we can Like just get everybody on board of the arc, right? Like no Noah didn’t take everybody on board of the of the arc, right? He only took his family And if he was considerate of all the rest of the people like like yeah that that did not happen, right and and Yeah, so that That’s a hard question to ask yourself and that’s a hard problem to solve Yeah, yeah, and that’s where we we fail with consideration it’s like where does it begin and end That’s the relevant realization again That’s the relevant realization again what what is the proper level of engagement with consideration as such What is the way in which we should be? considerate of others Welcome thank you very much Interesting like I just listened in I’m from Denmark by the way 22 year old Just found you guys stream randomly. I Tend to go on YouTube just search of stream yards and see whose life sometimes run ball, but I hope you guys have a good Friday and Seems very interesting Yeah, do you have a question like yeah? No, I just love to be maybe a part of the dissertation. I’m a Christian man myself and young believer I will say and just for life to hear your opinion how you believe and and Yeah, I could learn from each other like I’m a I’m a learner and I believe it you know what I mean Well what we believe in is is doing this right like getting out the message to to have people change Okay, the way that they’re understanding things because of course that’s that’s the first step Alright like if I think the first there is to learn yourself before you teach all those Because like you know what I mean like when I go to school I hated that shit because my teacher he just had the arc and she had to go to the same All of the same class all the same classmates We all had to do the same thing and she didn’t she already knew the answer so she was not really learning anything You know if you want to say to your kid don’t sit on your phone all day You probably have to do the same as a parent And So I really get it but like I just hope we guys can like you guys learn yourself before you Teach other because I’m not saying you’re hating on because hits book hate sweating. Probably very fast, you know Hates speeds and all that and all that and you’re just trying to do good, but I’m also saying good things can also turn bad So never put whatever other Beliefs or or whatever like on other people if you haven’t learned yourself I respect all religions and I love all people I try to understand, you know, it’s again Understanding is a misunderstanding basically if there’s something you don’t like it’s or if it’s something you don’t understand It’s probably easy to say I like I don’t like No, it’s very easy to say I hate instead of saying I like or don’t like but if you if you don’t hate and actually touch Understand you’ll say I like it or maybe I don’t like that’s fine That’s all Do you have an experience with with consideration and how that can be inconsiderate? Because that’s the struggle that we’re trying to dance around Mm-hmm. I think it’s really about It’s again Like like, you know, we can all be angry we cannot be mad and I don’t like to look at the world black and white That’s what I mean like and and and we should all be teachers we should all be your students You know under God But like It’s very I don’t know like what to say that actually but like maybe I’m missing a little bit like Yeah, well, so what we’re trying to figure out right is is this idea of consideration? It’s right to figure something out but like yeah Yeah, sounds like deep questions and it’s a deep question to figure out like I don’t think I could figure that out like I would love to say my Part of figuring out is is looking at something long enough, right? Like if you look at something long enough, you’ll find it Well, it’s like following the white web necessarily have to find it But you’ll find a way to relate to it, right? Okay, you’ll find you find a way that’s like Oh, yes, that’s that’s how I deal with it, right? And then you don’t really know it but you know enough to Have a good relation to it, right? Like That you’re not misusing And I think that’s what we’re trying to do with with this consideration, right? Because because we’re identifying that this being considerate is is being misused right? Like it’s being misapplied in in in in life, right because Initially the first thing that comes up when you say well I am I’m being considerate of you right like that seems like a good right like like being considerate is a good but there’s just ways in which That being considerate is actually doing the opposite in some sense, right? It’s drawing away the attention from the good and and it’s it’s actually more a manifestation of It’s like energy. I would say like I think it’s all coming to energy if that’s what you want me to answer because It’s all the energy. You know, I can give you bad vibes. You can give me good vibes, you know what I mean? But it’s not gonna Go both ways always And that’s something I think was really really interesting like energy human energy because we shall So much energy and we take so much energy But but we don’t really seem to understand how much Damage we’re doing to this with all this internet with these computers You know like they do microwaves to your brain all the time So you’re bringing a microwave and because I’m young and born into it, you know, I didn’t choose this I would have wanted to just get my own farm my own family my own food and water and so on and just left the Simple easy life hard life, but still life is simple Hey, I don’t know I haven’t tried it to be quite honest, but it’s my dream It’s cold in Denmark like it’s not homeless over here So it’s just to start up a whole year project like actually buying a land and starting up building or maybe Someone else But like yeah, I don’t want to do that. I always been independent. I know No, actually, I know work for anybody. I’ve been Absolutely, absolutely and I work for my family and my friends and so but I you mean what I mean Oh, you know what I mean? Like I’m working for a company Just doing some Work for Yeah independence to Be more independent And there’s something you have to build up day from day to learn. Why do you want to be independent? To be free basically to do free whatever I want for free from this system from the government from the whatever They want to push on my neck What is Christian about that? What is Christian about what? That about being independent I don’t talk about religion really about that I think we’re all free or we should be free to believe and to live as we want What we feel safe and good with our family and ourselves But but or like you can be happy Go go in the bank and went 10 million to house and then you have to pay that back in the next 10 years But instead I go and build my own house in one year and I can Have fun the next nine years of that. You know what I mean? Like this is like you can make things more simple more easy life is pretty simple, but if you want to go to Whatever and you have to kind of like if you born like I’m saying like I’m born into this system I have things to pay and do and so on But I wish I was just like free to make my own food and I didn’t have rules about like how much I could make And how much I’m free to do all that like people do that? Oh, you are but not really because like you can’t you can’t just go out of the system. You still have to work for them You absolutely can people do it all the time you should join of course and and yeah, I sure I sure and again You should turn yourself like you can’t just join a club and say oh now I’m gonna be independent and I’m gonna learn All about like that’s something that takes day from day, you know Like those people actually exist Yeah, of course, but I don’t think that’s a good Like if it’s not enough and it’s not an option but you yeah, you should do that Right, you wouldn’t have a computer because you can’t build that by yourself But if you’re if that’s if you’re privileging being free from the government and all this then you should go that way You know nothing and again, that sounds pretty Boxed but like yeah, yeah, you’re white and and it’s it is again my choice It’s it’s it’s me who have to choose for how I want to do with my life Well, I want to go and so on what my goals is why now I really just want to explore I want to try to get experience in share experience I’m a youtuber myself why go on then my the live stream outside in real life and Just share and get experience but when I when I’m actually Getting older like when I actually get my own family So I will wish for my my kids to not be in the same as me like Being playing video games all day or being on the internet so like you know what I mean? Like the basic things today, but I really want my why why don’t you stop the things that you think are bad? Because I I’m not doing it the same. Yeah, you know my god. What do you mean? I’m not doing that Why yeah, then why are you complaining about the things that you I’m not complaining I’m just I’m just telling you where my goals are. Okay, that’s not complaining. Okay. Why why aren’t you? working towards your goals I Am Everything I’m learning to make my own soup. I’m Growing I’m a I go to I’m on gone right go a lot of vegetables are cold right now in Denmark like snowy like this much snow Terrible, but I have plants inside you see ya I know that lemon tree and I’ll live to you and I got many plants. I have a in my garden I have like 20 big olive trees Ten years old I’ve been going a long time and I’ve been in gardening school a lot in the border school Five months ago on a border school. We had a lot of gardening classes too and so but I really have an interest in Mother earth in earth actually living earth. I love What I love to go my own foot because you can do everything yourself. Like I’m telling you in your own way, of course And of course, we can’t leave the system It’s really nice to know they sit back up like a hospital You can go to if you go like up in the woods like a vacation In the woods like a caveman and this Yes, not really safe. But you know what I mean? Like I just want to be more independent and I think we’re going to the opposite way most What what is the reason that you want to be independent? As I feel sick I’ve been feeling sick in a long long time as a young man I haven’t I haven’t of course taking the best choices, but still I feel it’s very unhealthy We’re living this way with I’m living at least in Denmark and my friends and so like people can buy alcohol when they’re 16 I’m alcoholic now. I drink every day. I smoke weed every day. I even do proximate shit Like I’m that’s not me, you know, but it’s it’s again It’s a big escape, you know, it’s a big Chaos in my life, but it’s something I want to fix Of course is something I’m trying to fix everything and work on but it’s only myself who can help myself Of course these tools what is what is the problem is is the things that you do in the system the problem or the system? I just don’t Feel good with flex. I really want to be independent like make my own things my own food my own closet my own house my everything, you know and Get my own land but like it’s not possible here and And it’s something you have to build up to be independent like first of all, you have to of course have a sum of money to actually Say to the system I’m going on pension now and you can screw me and I will live on this and this money every month You know It’s a pension like you can do that. Like in Denmark. I think it’s like you need Maybe six million Crowns as around one million dollar and then you can go on pension Of course, you can just do whatever you want. And yeah If you go and of course you don’t get paid a lot and you can’t use a lot That’s where you don’t want to go. You know, like make your own things and so on. I Know like is it totally crazy what I’m saying or if I’m a new for you are like, what do you know? I’ve heard this story many times before like it’s okay. Okay, fine. I’ve found out That’s a Struggle of trade-offs, right? There are a bunch of trade-offs You can go build your own house can’t have internet kind of electricity you can’t a hospital Well, you can build your own house, right? But you’re trading off a bunch of stuff. And yeah, you don’t want the trade-off I don’t blame you sounds like a bad deal. So it’s right office inevitable, right? Okay, you think that but that’s depends on what kind of house you want. Like I can build my own house with old Shit and of course, that’s not gonna hold the next thing Yeah, yeah, yeah I’m just saying I don’t want to manage our Bella Go put my own house in one year for the money I actually saved off then go to the bank and say I want a house and a stupid car and a stupid dog and some Stupid kids so I can feel happy for that little period of time and it’s not gonna work out To work a lot I’ll bella just work for myself and I don’t know why you’re not doing that. Like you could do that. You just have to give up being online and drinking Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you’re totally white. I’m not like Telling you I’m good. Like did you go do that? Like yeah. Yeah, I should I should and I’m going there But like it’s yeah, it’s again my own Problem is myself who’s standing in front of there, you know, like I’m the wall but into you guys are really like fucking Einstein’s like, holy moly and your ball also is But for me you guys are really smart like I’m really respect you but but I feel it’s a little bit of like we don’t know Each other but you seem a little bit like Judgmental maybe I don’t know you’re not pointing fingers. I like that No, like like like but like we’re we’re trying to help you figure out So if if you’re saying something and you’re not doing it right like there’s a problem there right like either Saying it’s incorrect or what you’re doing is incorrect. You need to fix one of those That’s interesting because maybe I gonna just go on telling myself or things and yeah, like you say nothing happened But that’s not really the thing like I really like you Don’t know me. Like I just got my own apartment two months ago got for my mom’s fucking almost basement or month’s woman I Feel something is happening and so on, you know, but I still feel lost in a way and I need That direction to go. I need a more goal. Of course. These are big goals like getting your own place getting your own family I know that’s in the long future, but I have to figure out better things of course like school Yeah, I think you should Take small not happy right like like when when you do small goals, right you you Actually get the satisfaction of reaching your goals, right? Yeah, that’s really important, right? But it out you also learn right you learn by doing right? I was I was gonna suggest at the start since you were suggesting well I want to I don’t want to work on the farm you you can just work on a biological farm Where would it be happy to have you like this farming schools and all that I know I know that you’re totally right man and and But farming in Denmark and actually being having your own sake It’s different because all farming in Denmark It’s it’s not like big in America where we have millions of cows in one farm But we still have like they’re in cages, you know Not what I want I want like other farms as well There’s farms that do it correctly and if Denmark is actually as horrible as you say you just come over here Here do it correct You guys why you guys by the way, I’m in the Netherlands and I know That aren’t doing It’s the same over here But you know what? I mean? Like it’s all they make it like it’s not like this Maybe two persons in Denmark who still live in on the old farmer ways where they have no machines Just horses and cows and so on so you don’t live that way. They have to make money Oh go work very few people do it for themselves and they were poor but they can still Can’t hire me you can’t hire me and I want my own farm over my own family Why should I? Just shoot like I’m young but I know what you mean. Yeah, you gotta start small You can’t like first your work for somebody so that you figure out how to run a farm Right, and then you get more job. That’s a good idea If you wanna have one of the learn some ticks Yeah, true Every two and you’ve you both from the other end No, I’m from I’m from the United States. Oh, okay. Okay. Fine. Okay. Can I ask what state or like South Carolina? South Carolina Yeah, it’s like the chili it’s the only thing pops to my head when you say that the chili South Carolina seems very hot It is warm over there. It’s winter right now. It’s a little it’s a little cooler than I’d like but normally it’s quite We have like that much snow outside is terrible Yeah, that’s good Yeah, we got farms Yeah so What when we’re talking about this these big decisions right like working somewhere, right? You don’t have to go for a whole year, right you can just try out for a week or or a month, right? Like just and just call them on the phone experience It’s better than no experience like it’s better to try things out. Like that’s really what you’re gonna do Most of the time and I thought they’d be happy to have you. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I’m just I’m high problems, you know, and it’s my own problems And I can only fix them like I have my addictions and shit that makes me not available to work when you drink all day and smoke Well, maybe maybe that’s what that’s what structures and societies can help you with it right is of course Better if you’re an addict because if you’re an addict I go to counseling meetings with a woman just one-to-one every week and I was there for the I Was never 15 times, but I didn’t do the homework She gave me to be honest and last time I was there. She told me we had to stop it And I had to call her after New Year’s. It’s only but yeah, and since that it’s been going really bad I did cocaine almost every day. I just stopped like three days ago or something and thought about it today Also buying some more and I’m really broke and it’s terrible I’m just alone, you know, like I just come from my mom’s place. My brother is in jail. So I took over his apartment It’s a big one. Yeah, it’s With that you’re a Christian. Yeah, I am Are you going to church? I I don’t not that often I of course do to some extent but I don’t go there any every sign I think I think believe is something you should do for yourself if you want to share or you want to Listen to a priest or whatever What is it called called in other religions I don’t even know like but but like That’s something you should only do For yourself in the star like that’s your belief. That’s something you should die for because that’s what they want to take away from you You know, that’s your freedom to believe and I think everybody should believe it if I ask other people in my age today What do you believe in they say I believe in nothing I say what is nothing what is nothing You cannot explain me that either It doesn’t have to be a God. It doesn’t have to be Jesus or Allah or Muhammad whatever or Buddha It’s up to you. It’s it’s about you Believing in yourself and your family and whatever else Over you there’s always something over you Do you think that in the church there’s a bunch of people trying to be good and they Wrote let me finish and they struggle with similar issues like like you and and they have experience with that And that they actually could be there for you in a way that the therapist cannot the church Yeah, of course in some churches, I would say the problem with things churches is this should be public to everybody. Okay? I’m asking you a question If you think they could be there for you, right? Like why don’t you make use of them? I don’t know I I do actually I thought about it at least and I actually did talk to priestess like many Longtime maybe six years ago and again, like I just don’t Think there’s a different from a priest that and and my dad I think it would be better to go to my family than a priest. Listen priests in Denmark these they are signing up doing their The the holy whatever, you know to say I am gonna work for the church and the people No, listen I know what you and they don’t they don’t they fucking lie and and they go and do satanic rituals with the Freemasons outside of their own individual Like there’s some individuals that might be doing that right? Yes, but there’s also individuals that aren’t doing that and are actually true They are all sold. They all get a paycheck I don’t believe in paychecks man when you when you get your first paycheck your mind will only be in the picture So if you want help, right? Yes. I’m like no I have to help myself No Even I can shoot I can put this out in my beer and I can not bring the beer and I can have to smoke my giant No, I mean I can throw all my money out the window money for coals So Even the people right who get paid right like can do good things Like getting paid doesn’t make you do bad things, right? And you don’t have to talk to priests right like there’s also people in churches Right and and I’m I’m trying to say that there’s people like me in the real world Right that you can get into contact with okay, like I I want to help you right like we’re on discord We’re doing meditation every day. We’re having talks every day. We’re trying to do this stuff online So it’s like subscribe to the channel everything right like come on to the discord. I’ll give you a link but There’s an important aspect right like I cannot knock on your door and check in how you do Right. So if you go on a coke band or whatever, like I cannot support you like that’s not an option But what do you mean? Like if I’m what what do you mean? Well, if if if you’re if you’re off right like whatever right because because you you lost your discipline Right, like you know, of course, I respect you were stream and your house or this culture or whatever and your rules Okay, right like okay in in life right like you’re talking about self-control and dealing with addiction, right and When when you’re an addict right like this there’s times when things go better and then there’s times when things go worse Right, that’s life. We all addicted right to some exploit Well In some ways, yeah, no, we have parents we can change patterns. We can have remove patterns We all eat sleep and so on so on. Okay, right? Yeah, but but it’s important right like when we can’t do the right thing When we have people around us that help us do the right thing, right? Physically be there with us to help us through things. Right? Like that’s really important Okay, and so what what is important for you is to find these people in your life, right? Okay, and and and listen to them, right? Cuz like I’m really listening I know you feel that right now until the moment that you’re not because you’re you’re whatever you’re not feeling well Right and then you’re not a good listener and everybody has that as well. All right, and so I guess what? What needs to happen right? Like you’re talking about all of these patterns, right? Like there’s these negative patterns that build up and I don’t believe in negative and minus and plus and black and white I think we all are born under the same star There are patterns right like going to school that allow you to to go school making that system Let me that’s not my system. You know what I mean? Listen, there is a pattern right like Learning right like I’ll just leave it out of school. It’s just my name my classroom ABC and one to write when you learn it allows you to go Towards your goal, right? Because you need to learn certain things in order to get your farm right like that’s just necessary Okay, so learning is a good pattern, right? So if you are among people right who have good patterns You will be able to do more good patterns because you all cause right with them Yeah, yeah, and that’s what you need. You need you need to be a more people So what you’re saying is like I’m a loser so I should stop being with losers because that makes me a bigger loser I should stop being with which people so I can become which Just to say to say Good fat kids play best with fat kids or whatever, you know, like that’s a school I think we all we can all learn from each other and everybody have a word everybody have a meaning everybody have Yes, everybody has everything but and a choice does does the thing Allow you to get out of the situation that you don’t like or no At times it does but at times it not in the long one maybe but that’s again my choice Yeah, not somebody else and I should find out what it is If I should find I don’t love And so of course, yes, but but I don’t need A Cytology tea like or something right now Maybe I do but like you know what I mean, like you can’t eat you’re not a doctor either So you all like whatever so you can’t tell me I need to find better people because you don’t know who I know You don’t know the people I know. I don’t know you either Yeah, but you seem very just like you’re pointing a lot of fingers at me bro, and it all points back to you Like it seems there’s something wrong with your head a little bit Okay, that’s not retarded but like I’m sorry but like It just seemed like you want to get independent and I was wrecked from facing the thing that’s obvious Okay, that’s what I think is happening Because your wife and I want to see straight sometimes and it’s hard, you know It can all be illusions at times it can all be looking Weird and then the next or good like my dreams can be your nightmare And that’s also the thing I have to understand my energy is the whole nother than yours Yeah, so just just stop talking about me manual. I will stop talking about we talk about us That mark talk for one time I’m getting too with Todd. I’m sorry. Yeah, but I will respect you guys message Right and you think about it, right? Like I will and you you you have a responsibility towards yourself I do absolutely do the best for you Yeah Yes God bless you guys. Can I be here still when you talk? Can I just sure I have to go on my fridge Another beer yes, it’s okay It’s okay drinking here You’ve already been drinking so it’s nice things Yeah, so Maybe we want to start getting some conclusions, right? So So Considerations right like we’re we’re considerate about things in the world, right like What one thing that we we want to do is if we want to be considerate about things in the world Like what what what are the things that we have to consider to? Well, like we were talking about in the conversation to plot our course in life, right like that that is a Way way to be considerate about things in the world and then we have to find a way for ourselves to To realize which things are relevant, right? Like which things are words of consideration and which things are not words consideration, right and if we have a way that we’re We’re making things that are relevant to us right Irrelevant, right? We’re being inconsiderate towards the future towards The the path like our final goal, right? Like we we want to manifest this this aim that we’re having in the world. So We need we need to have that discernment right and and that’s that’s a hard path Right, like and I think that’s why we’re having these stocks We’re having these stocks to figure out like what what is the way that we can start discerning? What do we need to consider and what don’t we consider? What do we need to consider in ourselves, what do we need to consider in others like what what is important, right? Yeah, Mark, do you want to add something there? Yeah, I think the problem with with consideration is exactly that It’s one thing to say oh have you considered right? It’s another thing to put your preferences on another person and use consideration as an excuse, right? So I know the example that was used earlier today was, you know vanilla versus chocolate ice cream. Well, what about? Mint chip right is like well Except that why is that your three things, right? Why isn’t it the hundred and eight flavors or whatever and that’s you know? All you’re doing is imposing your preferences on another person and calling it consideration, right? And and that’s the way in which you’re not being considerate even though you appear to be because you’re again you’re conflating the consideration the Decision with the act of being kind to a person which is a different different thing It’s just a conflation in the language. People are very confused about that This is all your first video you said hello Why you don’t talk like that anymore I Will still talk like that I Love to stalking like videos are like channels. It’s just interesting how people grow You look the same but you know, like how we grow in time We all just kind of eat ourself every day, you know in a sense like our own flesh our own bacteria and Micro, so on, you know what I mean? Like Yeah, we change over time for sure we develop all this money all the fucking time man and and I just love how Opinions and discussions can change from second to second from from one sentence or one Vibration or whatever a sound maybe even you know It’s kind of like a You’re actually talking to do people who hardly do that Okay, like I I I hardly changed my opinion Again like you say old dog cannot learn and that’s not true No, no, of course again you guys are older than me at least and you probably have built a stronger opinion and in most things than something but but um But I think it’s it’s it’s it’s very important to be open and you guys seem open that’s all I want to say Yes, we’re open in some ways, but we’re close to notice right and and that you want to learn Yeah, and and there’s a line there, right? There’s a dance there, right like there’s a way in which which you can navigate that and Way that Well when when you’re dancing right like some people can dance and they’re they’re all always out of balance, right? And then there’s a little shit. Yeah And they have sure a few food. You should see me dance. I’m a good dancer, but Yeah, well and and and that’s that’s that’s what we we end up like if you can if you can live life with with while dancing not not Getting out of balance not falling over right like that’s the place that you want to get right like that’s the place where you can be confident But it’s just my words because you guys are very big brain for me sometimes No, it’s just like the words like I’m not English speaking Officially, I speak Danish, you know, I just started learning English three years ago And now I speak seven other languages to I speak different languages every day So I just kept kind of messed up So Andy, I’m gonna leave you with a invite to Discord that we hang out. Yeah, I have a disco. I have a disco. I have many solos myself I’d love to join you guys. Yes. Yeah, so I’ll just I’ll just post my ID in the yeah. Yeah in the section here and and then we’ll meet up It’s okay since we’re both in Europe, right? Like we at least I am gonna have to Know Denmark and Canada’s neighbors now shine borders. Oh, we don’t even Like I put it in the private chat like I want to have the opportunity for For their people in the comment section to have the last say I think we we kind of have No, you’re good considerate enough of what considerations are I think it was too too little because of me, of course No, no, we can in but I hope you got what you needed for that video. I was yeah, I’m really Three hours, dude We’ve been going a long time and it’s time for okay. Yeah Chickens, yes, we are. Holy moly. I didn’t know that three hours. So you can watch it all better So yes, we’re hoping in and I hope you’ll engage in the discord right and I will I will I will send me a link And I will okay to the server run. Have a good one. See you