https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=TbUsSN5RKXQ
You were instrumental in the release of the so-called WPATH files very recently. And you keep dumping catastrophes into the public sphere. Yeah, yeah. Who knew that would be your role? But you seem to be playing it very effectively. So why don’t you tell us what’s… Clue is in, man. Take us from the top. Well, sure. So this is… The organization in question is called the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, called WPATH. And it’s an organization I hadn’t heard of until a source or sources gave me about 170 pages of the internal files from the discussion boards of WPATH, along with about a 90-minute video of WPATH leaders and members talking about some of the problems they were encountering. And so what you’re seeing in these files, and I encourage people to read the files themselves, there’s really no substitute for confronting the evidence directly. What you see are conversations about how to treat or mistreat, I think I would say, people who are experiencing gender distress as ages as young as 10 years old, 14 years old. There’s a discussion of a 13-year-old adolescent with developmental delays. There’s a conversation about whether to perform genital surgeries on somebody that’s suffering from symptoms like schizophrenia and maybe homeless. Concerns expressed about whether that person would be able to care for their wound, supposedly a neo-vagina. Sorry to get right into it right away, but this is the material we’re discussing. There’s a lot of conversations about the problems they have in getting kids and adolescents and their parents to understand that these procedures will result in sterilization and likely a loss of sexual function. Children and young adolescents, we wouldn’t really expect them. It’s kind of a developmental, it’s out of their developmental range sometimes to understand the extent to which some of these medical interventions are impacting them. And so I think I try to kind of do whatever I can to help them understand best I can. But what really disturbs me is when the parents can’t tell me what they need to know about a medical intervention that apparently they signed off for. Some of the Dutch researchers gave some data about young adults who had transitioned and reproductive regret, like regret. And it’s there. And I don’t think any of that surprises us. I don’t remember any of the numbers or anything. I just, again, I have a picture of a slide, but hopefully this is something that will get published in the next while. But, you know, I think now that I follow a lot of kids into their mid-20s, I’m always like, oh, the dog isn’t doing it for you, right? Yeah, they’re like, no, I just found this wonderful partner and now we’re kids. So I think, you know, it doesn’t surprise me, but I don’t know still what to do for the 14-year-olds. The picture that this organization, WPATH, had presented to the world and to the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Endocrine Society, every major medical organization, was a picture of real professionalism grounded in the best available science and evidence. They have something called standards of care, which are ostensibly guidelines for proper medical care for people suffering from so-called gender dysphoria, gender distress. And they’re in their eighth version of that, so they call it standards of care eight or SOC eight. Based on their public presentation, you would think that this is a serious scientific and professional body. It is not. When you read these documents, what you see is a lot of spitballing, a lot of people making things up. You don’t see a lot of references to what’s in the standards of care. But even if you did, you would learn that what’s in the standards of care is effectively pseudoscience. There is no evidence base to support these radical interventions, which is puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, meaning testosterone for females and estrogen for males, and then surgeries, both they euphemistically refer to as top and bottom surgeries. And people can understand that’s what we’re talking about. Breast elimination, double mastectomies for girls as young as 13, 14, 15 years old, and genital surgeries, which are, of course, irreversible, including on adolescents. It’s extremely shocking to read these conversations. There’s so much to unpack in them. I think there’s a kind of horror to it that for people like me that have tried to stay away from this for a long time, I’ve certainly heard you talk about it and seen you write about it. I’d read Abigail Schreier’s book. But honestly, my psychological reaction until I was confronted with these files and asked to effectively bring them into the world was of denial. I just didn’t really think that these things were going on at the scale at which they’re occurring. I thought maybe people were exaggerating what’s happening. These files put to rest any doubts anybody should have that what is happening is one of the greatest medical mistreatment scandals in recorded human history. It might be the worst. It’s certainly up there with lobotomies. It’s up there with the Tuskegee experiments. It’s way worse than both of those. I think you may be right. It’s so bad. And so there’s a lot to unpack. But anyway, that’s an overview of it. It’s 170 pages, the video. Oh, the one final thing I’ll say, Jordan, is just that it also shows without shadow of a doubt that they themselves, the people that are performing these mistreatments are aware that they are not getting what’s called informed consent. This is as important as do no harm. I think the thing you have to remember about kids is that we’re often explaining these sorts of things to people who haven’t even had biology in high school yet. I think when we’re doing informed consent, I know that that’s still a big lacuna of that. We’re just we do it. We try to talk about it. We try to talk about it, but most of the kids are nowhere in any kind of a brain space to really, really, really talk about it in a serious way. That’s always bothered me. But, you know, we still want the kids to be happy, happier in the moment. So they are acknowledging that the kids and the parents don’t understand that. And then they just sort of throw up their hands and they say, well, yeah, we don’t really know how to solve this problem. At no point in the video does anybody say, hey, maybe we shouldn’t be doing this. It’s a truly just from the you know, there’s a basic horror to it. But then at the intellectual level, you can’t help but be slightly fascinated by these people. What is wrong with them that they’re so in the grip of an ideology that they’re doing these mistreatments and never questioning effectively, never questioning that that perhaps they shouldn’t be doing them at all. Yep. OK, so let’s walk through that right. Right from right. Right through everything you said. So we’re going to start with the professional association. OK, so it turns out apparently that all you have to do to become a professional association that other professional associations can rely on is to call yourself a professional association. And the way you finesse that if you aren’t actually a professional association, which means you’re not you’re not a group of scientists and you’re not qualified to be doing what you’re doing is to proclaim as loudly as you can that you’re operating on behalf of someone who’s oppressed. Because then it becomes a moral crime to question anything you say. And so that means if you’re an absolute bloody narcissistic piker who’s also incompetent, the best way to claim clamber yourself to the top of a hierarchy that would otherwise be unattainable is to lie about who you are and what you’re doing. So great. So that’s a wonderful invitation to the willfully blind narcissistic psychopaths. OK, so that accounts for W path. And then with regards to the medical associations and the psychological associations who’ve gone along with this in the most despicable imaginable way. Well, they can point to the fact that they consulted the true experts and who more to know than those with lived experience in the area. Right. So great. We’ve got all sorts of excuses at hand. So that’s appalling on the professional side. And what it really is, is the invasion of of what would you say domains of specialization that once required effort by parasites who use ideology to game the system. So great. Now, that’s the American Psychological Association. That’s the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association. And it’s certainly W path. Inexcusable. I’ve never seen anything like this. I’m absolutely appalled and ashamed of my my therapist colleagues, for example, of not being rioting in the streets because of this. That brings us to the next issue in your progression, because then you describe gender distress. OK, so let’s think about that. Two words, gender and distress. OK, distress is indistinguishable from two things, generalized negative emotion and absence of positive emotion. OK, so that’s the core for depression and anxiety. And it’s the core set of symptoms for virtually every form of pathology that comes to the attention, not only of psychologists, but also of medical professions. Right. So distress is a very, very large bin. And what you do if you’re a credible. Diagnostician is you assume to begin with that the more generalized diagnosis applies depression and anxiety, and then you further specify that as necessary. Understanding that a lot of what you might attribute to the more specialized problem is actually a manifestation of the more general problem. Right. Because one question is, is, well, what the hell is the difference between gender distress and anxiety and depression? And the answer is mostly nothing, mostly nothing. And so maybe there’s something left over that’s specific to something like body dysmorphia, but probably not. And you need pretty solid proof that there is something in addition. And then see, that’s another part of the sleight of hand, because you might say, well, people with gender dysmorphia are more likely to commit suicide. It’s like, no, depressed and anxious people are more likely to commit suicide. You have to demonstrate that there’s an additional utility in your diagnostic label. And that turns out to be extremely difficult. But we were way past all that. OK, so now then we have the additional lie. So we’ve mucked up the notion of distress. Now we’ve appended another lie to it. Some of this distress is attributable to confusion about gender. There’s no difference between confusion about gender and confusion about identity. Those are the same thing. And everybody who seeks psychological treatment has confusion about identity. That’s why they seek treatment. So you can’t just take all that and rename it gender and think that you can get away with it, although apparently you can. So that’s appalling on the conceptual side. It’s inexcusable. There’s no there’s no reason whatsoever that any psychologist or physician who’s been trained remotely in the mental health sciences should ever fall for that, even for a second, no matter what. But they did. OK, next, next. And this is the progression that you laid out. OK, so now we have gender distress as delineated by a pack of professionals who aren’t professional and who aren’t a pack and are certainly not a professional association. And what do they recommend? They don’t recommend the minimal necessary intervention. So the clinical literature six years ago was absolutely clear with regard to the small number of cases of gender dysphoria that emerged in early childhood. Very rare. One in three thousand. Very rare. Leave them the hell alone. Right. Till they’re 18. Yeah. Most of them turn out to be gay. And 90 percent of them and the existence of that final 10 percent is highly debatable. Except the physical reality of their embodiment. Right. So so the rule is don’t do anything stupid. Now, the man who established that, who was the what’s Ken Zucker. Right. He ran the best journal that dealt with childhood gender dysphoria for years up in Toronto. That was his recommendation for treatment. And the bloody radicals ran him out of business 10 years ago. Right. That’s when all this idiocy started up in Toronto, which bloody well figures. OK, so OK, so now you’re not supposed to do anything. Right. Just wait. Bad treatment is worse than no treatment. OK, but no, we’re not going to do that. We’re going to do the opposite. We’re going to take the most extreme possible imaginable surgical intervention. And then we’re going to combine that with the most extreme possible imaginable imaginable hormonal intervention. And then we’re going to recommend that. And we’re going to tell people that if they don’t listen, their children are going to die. Right. They’re going to commit suicide, which is a complete bloody lie. There was never a bit of evidence for that, not even bad evidence. It was just a lie. And then and then top it all off. We’re going to offer this absolutely cataclysmic treatment with unimaginably dire consequences to people who don’t even understand and can’t understand what they’re agreeing to. Right. Then we’re going to promise them that’s how they’ll find their true self. Right. Right. So that’s where we’re at. Right. It’s so sickening. It’s so sickening that that well, and let’s close with your final point. You said you’d heard a little bit from Abigail Schreier. You heard a little bit from me. There’s been some other people screeching and bitching about this in the background. I knew this was coming back in 2016. I could see it just absolutely clearly. I knew it was going to affect young women primarily because that’s the historical part for the course. But you said, you know, you’re a pretty astute guy and you’re actually also pretty open to the revelation of uncomfortable material. But you said that even you were enticed into, well, into what exactly? Like, what did you think of Abigail? Okay, why? I think it was some I mean, it was I should say, I mean, I wasn’t totally it’s gradual. But I mean, I think it’s important to talk about because I think if we want to figure out how to end this, we do have to figure out how to get through to people. And I’ve been certainly talking about this with my friends and family who are very progressive for a couple of years now. And the most the most recent argument was last summer with I don’t want to say who, but people that I’m close to. And they also engage in a kind of denial that this was in any way widespread. Because I think that when I was describing a particular detransitioner who had gotten to know and whose case I’ve talked a little bit about. And I think because if you accept that this mistreatment is widespread, it is so damning. It is such an indictment. It’s not just it’s an indictment of the entire what they call the chain of trust from the the pseudo scientists to the practitioners to the associations to the news media, psychologists, psychiatrists, the institutions, every every. I mean, every institution companies. Yeah, drug companies. The indictment is so serious. It’s so serious and it goes right in your ears. I’m very excited to talk to you about all Jordan, because I think that it really goes to just the the rotting away of the core restraints the society used to impose the the the guardrails, you know, the gatekeeping. And what’s I want to clarify one thing, by the way, which is that in the files, they don’t talk about gender distress. That’s more neutral language that some of the people in the gender critical movement use. They just think they’re all trans. If you are someone that expresses confusion about your gender identity, the assumption is that you are trans. And it clearly comes right out of the gay rights movement, where there was a sense in which and this is I think what’s been so, you know, that the heart of a lot of it for how liberals accepted it was that I think a lot of us accepted gay relationships and same sex relationships and the innateness of them. And so when it came to trans, it basically was just the application of this rule of innateness onto trans. There was never a question that there was a misdiagnosis and a mistreatment. Two separate things, by the way, misdiagnosis and mistreatment. And then when you kind of when it just runs away and it’s like, you know, the front page, you know, cover of Time magazine and it’s all the everybody’s talking about. This is the new form of liberation. And then you had, as you were saying, there’s different characters, right? There’s the psychopaths and the narcissists who are the bullies and they’re sort of the narcissists are mesmerizing people, the psychopaths are bullying people. And then all of the nice guys, all of the kind liberals, the compassionate, caring liberals cave in and they kind of go, I can’t deal with it. So that I’m talking about the journalists, the medical associations, the other doctors. It is the Democrats, the Democrats, the liberals. I mean, it is it is a just an absolutely shocking cowardice, dogma, psychopathologies. You know, you look at the people that are really sadism. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, it’s fun. You know, we’re going to write. I mean, there’s there’s there are going to be there will be books written about this episode. I mean, I don’t want to race ahead to looking back. I don’t pardon me that maybe my coping mechanism. This all has to be stopped. I mean, this is I will say you probably will probably get to it. But you one week after we released the WPath files, Britain’s National Health Service came out and finally banned puberty blockers in all of its clinics. The Times of London then came out the next day. This is a center left newspaper. They called this quack medicine in the lead editorial. They called for expanding the ban. They were worried. They are worried, as we should be, that puberty blockers are still going to be prescribed in private clinics. But you could see with the WPath files, the NHS decision, a huge opening were finally people that had, I think, including me, that had been sort of quiet on this, maybe a little bit like unsure. Is this my role to speak out on this? Finally going, no, this is absolutely bonkers and has to be stopped. This is a this is a yeah, maybe the greatest medical mistreatment scandal of the last, you know, 100 years, 200 years. I don’t know. Yeah, we have to. It’s hard to. It’s hard to identify a worse one. It’s hard to identify worse. It’s like it’s like Unit 7. What was it? Unit 713. The Japanese as Japanese medical experiments on on the Chinese when they invaded, that’s the worst. That’s the worst of the horrors that I’ve ever familiarized myself with. This is at that level. And that’s really something. It’s it’s because the nitty gritty of the details of this are so shocking that you can’t believe it’s true. You just with it. And one other final detail. The picture is, oh, yeah, we’re doing all the science that people will. In these these conversations, the doctors will say, well, I don’t know. I mean, we haven’t seen anybody really come in to complain with us, at least the people we followed up with over the few weeks after the surgeries. There’s like not only is there no serious study or follow up of the victims of these mistreatments, they’re not interested. It’s a complete abdication of responsibility by everybody involved. Nobody even chimed in and said, hey, maybe we should follow up with these people. What about the person that had tumors on their on their liver? Maybe we should find that person. We did not see this anywhere in the files. Like nobody piped up and tried to take responsibility. It was a complete abdication of responsibility. It was just it’s just this kind of mania that we have. We’re going to mess with people’s bodies and then we don’t care what happens afterwards. It’s almost like they’re getting a hedonic pleasure from it and then they’re done with it. Yeah.