https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=_2cM-NuOHys
We’re having a conversation. I’m deciding I’m going to listen to you Right that’s different than people how people generally communicate because usually when they communicate they’re doing something like okay We’re gonna have a conversation, and I’m gonna tell you why I’m right and I’ll win if you agree Or maybe you’re having a conversation where I don’t know what you’re trying to do Maybe you’re trying to impress the person you’re talking to so you’re not listening to them at all You’re just thinking about what you’re gonna say next okay, so that’s not this this is you might have something to tell me and So I’m gonna listen on the off chance that you’ll tell me something that would really be useful for me to know and so You could think about it as an as an extension of the Piagetian You know Piaget talked about the fundamental The fundamentally important element of knowledge being to describe how knowledge is sought the process by which knowledge is generated well If you agree with me, and I find that out I know nothing more than I knew before I just know what I knew before and maybe I’m happy about that because you know it didn’t get challenged But I’m no smarter than I was before But maybe you’re different than me and so while I’m listening to you. You’ll tell me something I wouldn’t I don’t like maybe it’s something I find contemptible or difficult whatever Maybe you’ll find you’ll tell me something I don’t know and then I won’t be quite as stupid and then maybe I won’t run painfully into quite as many things And that’s a really useful thing to know especially if you live with someone and you’re trying to make long-term peace with them as they’re not the same as you and they’re a way they look at the world in the facts that they pull out of the world aren’t the same as your facts and Even though you’re going to be overwhelmed with the proclivity to demonstrate that you’re right it is the case that two brains are better than one and so maybe nine of the ten things they tell you are Dispensable or maybe even 49 out of 50 but one thing all you need to get out of the damn Conversation is one thing you don’t know and one of the things that’s very cool about a good Psychotherapeutic session is that the whole conversation is like that all you’re doing is trying to Express the truth of the situation as clearly as possible. That’s it and so now Rogers Proposition and I’ll tell you why he derived it was that if you have a conversation like that with someone It will make both of you better It’ll make both of you psychologically healthier, so there’s an implicit presupposition that the exchange of truth is curative Well, that’s a very cool idea. I mean it’s a very deep idea. I think it’s the most profound idea It’s the it’s the idea upon Western civil upon which Western civilization although Not only Western civilization is actually predicated the idea that truth produces health But for Rogers that was the entire purpose of the psychotherapeutic alliance you come to see me because you want to be better You don’t even know what that means necessarily neither do I we’re gonna figure that out together But you come and you say look things are not Acceptable to me and maybe there’s something I could do about that so that’s the minimal precondition to engage in therapy Something’s wrong. You’re willing to talk about it truthfully, and you want it to be better without that the therapeutic Relationship does not get off the ground and so then you might ask well What relationships are therapeutic and answer that would be if you have a real relationship? It’s therapeutic if it isn’t what you have is not a relationship. God only knows what you have you’re a slave They’re a tyrant. You know you’re both butting heads with one another. It’s a primate dominance hierarchy dispute Oh, I don’t know you’re like two cats in a barrel or two people with their hands around each other’s throats But what you have is not a relationship so All right We may say that the greater the communicated congruence of experience awareness and behavior on the part of one individual That’s that’s a reference to the same idea that I was describing with regards to you, so let’s say You come and talk to me, and you want things to go well Well, I’m gonna have to more or less be one thing because if I’m all over the place You can’t trust any continuity in what I say There’s no and you there’s no reason for you to believe that I’m capable of actually telling you I’m capable of expressing anything that’s true so the truth is something that emerges as a consequence of getting yourself lined up and beating all the What would you call? all the impurities out of your out of your out of your Soul for black of a better word you have to be integrated for that to happen And you do that at least in part by wanting to tell the truth the more the ensuing Relationship will involve a tendency towards reciprocal communication with the same qualities, so one of the things That being quite influenced by Rogers one of the things I try to do in my therapeutic sessions First of all to listen to really listen and then well well I listen I watch and well I’m listening things will happen in my head You know maybe I’ll get a little image of something or I’ll get a thought or a question will emerge And then I’ll just tell the person what that is, but it’s sort of directionless You know it’s not like I have a goal except that we’re trying to make things better I’m on the side of the person I’m on the side of the part of the person that wants things to be better not worse And so then we those parts of us have a dialogue and the consequence of that dialogue is that certain things take place And then I’ll just tell the person what happened, and it isn’t that I’m right That’s not the point the point is is that they get to have an hour where someone actually tells them what they think Here’s the impact you’re having on me You know this is making me angry. This is making me happy. This is really interesting This reminds me of something that you said an hour ago that I don’t quite understand and the whole The whole point is not for either person to Make the proposition or convince the other that their position is correct but merely to have an exchange of experience about how things are set up and it’s extraordinarily useful for people because it’s often difficult for anyone to find anyone to talk to that will actually listen and So another thing that’s really strange about this listening is that if you listen to people they will tell you the weirdest bloody things So fast you just cannot believe it so if you’re having a conversation with someone and it’s dull. It’s because you’re stupid That’s why you’re not listening to them properly because they’re weird. They’re like Wombats or albatrosses or rhinoceroses or something like they’re strange creatures And so if you were actually communicating with them, and they were telling you how weird they really are it would be it would be anything but boring So and you can ask questions. That’s a really good way of listening, but you know One of Roger’s points is well you have to be oriented properly in order to listen and the orientation has to be look what I Want out of this conversation is that the place we both end up is better than the place we left That’s it. That’s what I’m after and if you’re not after that you got to think why the hell wouldn’t you be after that? What could you possibly be after that would be better than that you walk away? Smarter and more well equipped for the world than you were before you had the conversation and so does the other person Well, maybe if you’re bitter and resentful and angry and anxious and you know generally annoyed at the world Then that isn’t what you want you want the other person to walk away worse than you too because you’re full of revenge But you know You’ll get what you want if you do that so We know from our research that such empathic understanding. It’s already defined that I want to hear you I want to hear what you have to say so we can clarify it and move forward I want to have your best interests in mind and mine as well But you know both at the same time your families too if we could manage that we’re after making things better We know from our research that such empathic understanding Understanding with a person not about him is such an effective approach that it can bring about major changes in personality Some of you may be feeling that you listen well to people and that you have never seen such results The chances are very great that you have not been listening in the manner that I’ve described Fortunately I can suggest a little experiment that you can do to test the quality of your understanding The next time you get into an argument with your wife or your friend or a small group of friends stop the discussion for a moment And for an experiment Institute this rule Each person can speak up for himself only after he has first restated the ideas and feelings of the previous speaker Accurately what accurately means is they have to agree with your restatement Now that’s an annoying thing to do Because if someone is talking to you and you disagree with them the first thing you want to do is take their argument make the Stupidest possible thing out of it that you can that’s the straw man and then demolish it It’s like so then you can walk away feeling good about it. And you know you primate dominance Dominated them really nicely so but that isn’t what you do you say okay? Well, I’m gonna take what you told me and maybe I’m even gonna make your argument stronger than the one you made That’s useful if you’re dealing with someone that you have to live with because maybe they can’t bloody well express themselves very well But they have something to say so you make their argument strong all right then You see what this would mean It would mean that before presenting your own point of view it’d be necessary for you to really achieve the other speaker’s frame of reference To understand his thoughts and feelings so well that you could summarize them for him Sounds simple doesn’t it? But if you will try it you’ll find that it’s the most difficult thing that you’ve ever done