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Well, I’m in chronic pain a lot of it and it’s constant and I’m not I don’t know what to do with it Generally speaking I know things that make it worse You said something a lot of ideas were flashing through my mind and I want to I want to hit at it because it’s a crucial Concern you said something so surprising that Christ on the cross was offering up the proper praise to God It’s like well, I’m not gonna just let you say that without Noticing it because that’s a hell of a thing to say So I’m gonna put together some things that you touched on and and then we can address this So you said in the Bible one of the things that’s remarkable about it is the conception of the divine So the conception of what is of highest worth? Yeah stripped from some of its all obvious objects of projection the Sun the moon the cosmos the stars But then also Earthly leaders of other cultures idols and also earthly leaders of your own culture says no Whatever the ultimate divine is it’s not to be found in its fullest expression in any of those examples It’s something else. Okay, so then the question is well, what is that else? Well, the Christian answer is well, whatever it is for in its human form. Let’s say it’s something human It’s something that humans can aspire to it’s both of those the and It’s made manifest in the figure of Christ Something specifically human but then you have this terrible paradox with Christ Which is partly the paradox that you just laid out which is a very difficult thing to get a grip on So what is it exact? Why is what Christ is doing proper sacrifice? What is it his willingness to bear the pain what is it That’s close to it. So we say the word became flesh So the word who is always in the presence of the Father So the word doesn’t worship the Father because the word is God so that we shouldn’t talk about worship within the Trinity itself But now the word becomes flesh because the Father God so loved the world He sent his only son that all who believe in him might have eternal life in his name He sends the Sun into flesh but into flesh that’s been so compromised by sin So not into a pristine creation Now what do you have that’s interesting question theologically? What do you have sent the Sun if creation had not fallen? That’s an interesting question Right. In fact, the valuable fall that laid the Right. Yes, it’s right remarkable idea. It is indeed but like Duns Scotus argued You know the Franciscan medieval theologian that God would have sent his son even if we hadn’t sent but that’s another question Okay, so let’s take that apart for just a sec so that people are clear about it So the theory here is that there is something wrong with the structure of creation That that’s its steepness and sin and everyone has to ask if they believe that and and it seems to me that people do Is there’s a sense that things aren’t how they should be that we’re not how we could be that something Right has gone astray and is continuing to go astray, which is a mystery in and of itself if it’s a God created world It’s like well, why is that precisely? well, I mean the quick answer is is corrupted freedom, you know or a misguided freedom you might say but the word comes into flesh into fallen flesh and the cross is what the cross is cruelty and hatred and violence and institutional injustice and stupidity And if you read the passion narratives, it’s it’s a beautiful sort of poetic presentation of all that’s wrong with us that comes out to meet him and Bearing all of that he continues in his relationship of of obedience and unity with the father so Bearing the sins of the world Bearing all the dysfunction and twisted quality of the world. He brings us Back online So in in the attitude of the word made flesh on the cross we see a sinful corrupt hate-filled world now brought painfully back online That’s the sacrifice of the cross that’s pleasing to the father so we should never play the game of well the father is like a is a Dysfunctional alcoholic father that you know is now demanding this blood sacrifice It’s it’s rather the father is pleased by the son’s entry into our fallen situation and his bearing of all that dysfunction Even as he brings us back online to the father. So why does okay, so let’s say Christ maintains his I know this isn’t exactly the right way of thinking about it, but it’ll work for rhetorical purposes. I think It’s so Christ is tortured By betrayal by by by physically and spiritually as well because the best way to Torment someone is when is to punish them despite their innocence, right? Yeah, so right right or maybe worse than that to punish them because of their virtues That’s even better. And so that’s that’s intrinsic in this story as well. Christ bears up under that He doesn’t repudiate God doesn’t repudiate his own essence it’s something like that he but then what? Is the is the example of that is the example of bearing up under that exceptional duress and maintaining a moral stance? Is that the example that redeems the world? Is it that if you do that in your own life, the world is de facto redeemed It is that but more because if it’s just that then a pelagian system would be true that we just need a good, you know Moral exemplar it’s something more Just merely good. I mean, it’s super right. It’s what’s being asked for no true, but it’s something more metaphysical about it it’s a reworking of the way things are if if Jesus takes upon himself all the dysfunction of the world and Swallows it up in the ever greater divine mercy so it’s it’s Christ bearing all of our dysfunction but transfiguring it in his great act of forgiveness and obedience to the father that I think all of that coming together Simultaneously is the sacrifice that’s pleasing to the father in some ways the word from the cross father forgive them They know not what they do is that is the most important or playing with this to Jordan that After the resurrection So Jesus comes back precisely to those who had denied him and betrayed him and run from him in his moment of greatest need and in almost any telling of a similar story if that had all happened and then the person who had died is back from the dead and he Appears to those who had abandoned him you’d expect him to you know wreak havoc on them, right? So Jesus shows his wounds to be sure because the wounds of Jesus are a sign of the world’s dysfunction If I’m ever tempted, you know when we were younger the book I’m okay. You’re okay came out, right? So we’re always tempted to say well, you know, basically we’re okay Just need a little fixing up around the edges whenever we’re tempted to say that it’s the wounds of Jesus that say otherwise That’s why I was insisting earlier that I don’t you know that that it isn’t merely misguided good that turns people towards the Darkness, it’s it’s it’s voluntary desire to produce the darkness as well Anyways, I do do that very seriously and it’s an interesting idea Is that the ideal is wounded in proportion to the degree that everything has deteriorated away from the ideal and that’s almost by definition true, right? Yeah Yeah, no, that’s true But it’s just the it’s a very act of the will itself is structured in such a way It has to be seeking some kind of at least apparent good, but that’s our earlier issue So the wounds show that the dysfunction of the world which the Son of God took upon himself But then then the word of shalom, which is in all the resurrection accounts that Jesus says peace so When when Paul for example says I’m certain that neither death nor life nor angels or principalities nor height nor depth or any other creature could ever separate us from love of God how does he know that because we killed God and He returned with a word of forgiveness So that means it’s like it’s like for the divine goodness and forgiveness Can trump any evil even the evil of killing God? So we killed him but yet he returned in forgiving love I think that’s the moment when Christianity is born in the dual sense of yes, we kill them look at the wounds But he says shalom to us. Nevertheless, so that I can’t run away from him. I can try You know, that’s what all the sinners do I can try but ultimately the divine love is such that it’s it’s greater than You