https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=jzz5AnAz96M
So this past weekend we saw drop the interview between Joe Rogan and Kanye West. It was exactly what I expected and it would be impossible to really dissect what he said and you know everything that was said in that interview. Because it was truly a kind of, let’s say, a kind of madness of words and of images that although at the first glimpse looks like it was all over the place and kind of wild. But when you look at it from a bird’s eye view all of a sudden patterns appear and you start to see what exactly was going on. And so that’s mostly what I’m going to try to do is try to take a bird’s eye view of what happened during that interview. Try to see how he is really manifesting the manner in which a kind of folly or a kind of embodiment of the fool has the capacity to flip things around and to bring back a kind of balance. This is Jonathan Pajot. Welcome to the symbolic world. So yesterday on social media I posted a quote and I said quote beauty will save the world unquote Kanye West on Joe Rogan in 2020. Now of course Kanye West did not say that during the interview directly. But there was an interesting process during the entire interview which was that Kanye West would say things for like 15 minutes and would draw these analogies and would talk at different levels and would bring about different examples. And then Joe Rogan would in one sentence or in like two sentences would say yeah this you know this is what you’re trying to say and Kanye would look at him and go yeah of course. And so ultimately I would say that if we could resume everything that Kanye West said in his interview was that. And of course that quote is a kind of misquote taken from Dostoevsky from the idiot in which the Prince Mishkin who is the idiot in that story is asked is it true that you said that beauty can save the world? That beauty will redeem the world and the Prince doesn’t answer. But this is of course has become a trope in kind of Orthodox culture to talk about how beauty will save the world. Often people don’t understand what it means but in this context in the context of Kanye I think we can understand what it means or what it could mean let’s say. And so if we had to synthesize what Kanye basically was doing during that interview he would circumambulate around a point and so Joe Rogan would ask a question and then Kanye would instead of answering the question directly would start to give different analogies at different levels. And this is how we see the manner in which kind of how Kanye West has something of a symbolic perception or has symbolic intuition which is that he understands the world analogically. He understands that once you have tapped into a certain pattern of being then it doesn’t matter what you apply it to. Then it’s going to work because you’ve actually tapped into a true pattern of being and if you had to resume everything that Kanye was saying it’s that seems to be what he was saying. And so a great example in the interview is when Joe Rogan asked him if you were the president what would you do differently what would you do differently and his example that he gives is he said I would redesign those suits. That is he watched the debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden and he really didn’t like the way they were dressed and so he was saying I would redesign the suit. Kanye West what I understand is that he even redesigned the room in Joe Rogan’s studio where he was speaking before he gave the talk. And so this is really the understanding when I say beauty will save the world the way that Kanye sees the world is through design. That is he understands it not so much first of all as moral questions or moral quandary but actually a manifestation of pattern and a manifestation of analogy between different realities. And so for him redesigning a suit is the same as redesigning a state. And so it was really fascinating because every time Joe Rogan would ask him about something in politics he would say this is what I did in music. The way that I write music or that I design shoes is the manner in which I would be president. And at first glance you would think how insane is that and there is a kind of craziness to the way that he was talking but deep inside there was also these amazing nuggets of truth that would come out as he was speaking. And so as he’s riffing on fluoride and you know the example which was just amazing at the example that all the different levels that he kept bringing bringing about. But you could see that he had this really the symbolic intuition because at some point he talked about how he said we are in the movie we are in the story we are in the video game. Life is the real story that is the way that art manifests itself is not actually entertainment and this is something I’ve been hounding at you guys forever. It is participative and this is what I’ve been telling you that Kanye West intuition has been moving towards this is why he’s also created these Sunday services while he’s why he’s interested in design why he’s interested in technology why he’s interested in creating sustainable communities. He talked about making a monastery talked about all these things that he’s involved in is because he basically understands art as participative. He understands that art is creating frames in which we exist and if you create anality so if you redesign the suit it will actually affect the way that people behave and of course we know that’s true when he says it right away when he says it would redesign the suits you’d think. Wow I can’t believe he gives that example but intuitively we understand that you know if if you could give extreme examples like if the presidential candidates came out during the debate you know wearing chains and spikes and you know had dyed their hair then no one would take them seriously. And so the idea that there isn’t an analogy between the public discourse between the state and the way that the politician presents himself is of course of course that is true it’s true that those two things are analogous and so but the way that Kanye understands it is as such a primal level that for him it’s all it’s almost all the same and so if if you he has this intuition about a pattern then he could whether he applies it to a rap song whether he applies it to a political or political. And so if he has this sense of this character who on the one hand is going in every direction so he’s completely scattered he’s constantly going riffing off and he talks about giving a symphony but I would say that in the context I think that in the context of the interview the symphony has a lot of happened in the relationship between Joe Rogan and Kanye West that is Kanye needs something to seems like he needs something to focus him and and so Joe was pulling out let’s say the thread of all the symphonic things that Kanye was saying and I think that maybe that’s why Kanye is so good at design is because when he speaks he kind of circumambulates and he he’s going all over the place but if you’re creating an object that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a symbol of something that’s going to be a manifestation of an object-like if you’re making a shoe make a shoe, if you’re making something at some point, you have to have a chew, if you’re making something at some point, you have to synthesize that in to into something which holds in space. mind, if you’re making a shoe, if you’re making something at some point, you have to computer that into進 COVID-19, trade in space, and Mercury, if you’re making a shoe, if you’re making something at some point, you have to synthesize that into into something which holds into something which holds in space. in space. it forces him in space. in space. it forces him to kind of focus his to kind of focus hisopen of time. at the design a difference level different something from rap music and then fashion. All of this seems maddening at the first glance and in a way it is maddening. Ultimately there is something frightening about someone who kind of goes off in all these directions but there’s also a kind of energy and there’s also a kind of let’s say honesty that is difficult to deny. You know one of the things that I noticed about Kanye West a long time ago is that he was capable of acknowledging his contradictions and so that’s something which maybe is part of his his manic state which is the capacity to recognize your contradictions but it’s also a kind of lucidity which most people don’t have. He was capable of recognizing when he’s actually a hypocrite and you know he has certain values and then he does other things and then I remember in an interview someone saying like aren’t you a hypocrite and he just said yes yes I’m a hypocrite and you could see it in this interview he said some things which most people would never say in public like he talks about how he’s a Christian and he wants these Christian values and these these Christian Christian values towards sexuality towards our list and then at the same time he’s saying that he still has a problem with pornography and he still watches pornography and so it was like this this capacity to be completely honest and in that honesty to embrace embrace these contradictions you know the whole time he kept saying that on the one hand he brags about how much money he has and then right in the next sentence he says how money is nothing and how money has no value and that it’s just a tool but you can see that he embr- he kind of embraces that contradiction which just to a certain extent is dangerous because that’s what leads into a kind of breakdown but at the same time it also offers him a certain amount of power because there’s nothing you can get on him because he knows himself and he knows he’s both extremely prideful and extremely arrogant but he if you point out his foibles he also he’s just like yeah of course these are my weaknesses these are these are my foibles and so that those extremes are both kind of exciting but they’re frightening at the same time and there’s something extremely frightening about some of the things that he says of course when you hear someone say something like god calls me to be the leader of the free world you know the only reason why we don’t find it absolutely frightening is because there’s something in Kanye because he’s a rapper because he’s a you know he’s goofy in the way he acts and the way that he that he’s acted in the past there’s something which because we can kind of laugh at that then it makes it okay but if anybody else said that he has a calling from god to be leader of the free world we would run away like at a hundred miles an hour from that person you know and the idea also that that you’re going to redesign reality that you’re going to redesign the world is a scary scary thought if if you take it too seriously but in his kind of contradictory character in his kind of because he he manifested in these kind of strange opposites and these strange contradictions it rather it rather makes us hope right he says he believes in utopia he says he believes in world peace and anybody who says that should frighten you seriously frighten you anybody who tells you that he believes in world peace and that he’s the one who’s going to bring world peace is really a dictator is that is a very very dangerous person but there’s something about the way he says it like i said the fact that he’s also willing to acknowledge his weaknesses and that he’s also kind of circumambulating and he’s throwing things out and he’s he’s all of a sudden says something and then he stops and he says it in a way that sounds like a rap and then he says i hope someone will i hope someone will take that and put a beat to it you know there’s something there’s something about the way that he speaks which makes it less frightening because in a certain manner he’s funny and so but nonetheless i i would say if you have not watched this interview it’s definitely worth watching it just to get a sense of this idea of this kind of this kind of fool character who who is living in contradiction who flips everything around but then like i said he says it right there in the interview he says i tell the truth but in a world you know i said he said in a world full of lies that truth sounds like craziness that’s exactly what i said about him you know last year that’s exactly what i said about the character of the fool is that when the world is upside down that’s when the the fool appears as someone who tells the truth because it’s almost in his nature to want to flip things and so and you can see all through he’s talking about he wants to change everything he wants to he runs to renew the world in every manner which is frightening but because the world is upside down then he to do it he ends up saying things that are true and that at least we can pay attention to in terms of the truth there’s some things that he said in that interview that no one else in the world is allowed to say what he said about abortion what he said you know also about on the one hand talking about racial conflict and segregation and kind of racism that’s in american culture but at the same time talking really about how in order to trans what it needs what you need to transcend that and that success is what you need to transcend it there’s all these ways that he’s speaking that are very difficult to that it would be very difficult for other people to talk about so if you haven’t watched the interview i would say it is definitely worth it i had to watch it twice or actually listen to it because you know it’s it’s like three hours or and i listened to it at like two or like 1.5 especially the second time just the first time i was like what’s going on what’s going on i felt like i was on a carousel ride and then i was being spun around and of course i expected that because that’s who he is and that’s what his role is but then on the second time around then i was then able to perceive the analogies that he was going through and how he was he was constantly using analogy as the manner in which he approached reality and helping trying to communicate that if you grasp the patterns then it doesn’t matter what you do like if you have that intuition then you can do anything and i felt some resonance with what i’m trying to do as well obviously on a smaller scale i’m no khanye but i would say that the sometimes when people look at what i’m doing and they look at the fact that i’m making icons you know i’m making reliquaries for the for saints and making objects for churches i made a um a bishop’s crook for the archbishop of montreal but at the same time i’m making comments on movies and on on anime i’m you know i made a video a video talking about video games i’m also designing t-shirts and i’m making a comic book but i’m also involved in the orthodox arts journal and talking about sacred art and sacred symbolism and the bible and all that stuff and so there’s something about what he’s saying that i understand very deeply because in what i’m doing but it’s also my perception it has to do with the fact that the pattern of reality if you glimpse it if you understand it if you have a perception of how things work then it doesn’t matter what you’re doing they can be applied at any level of the world of course in my case i’m applying it more directly to art and so trying to create let’s say stories and images that appeal both to the most common or the most popular level of reality but that can also speak to the highest aspects of their participation in the life of the church whereas for him he basically spans from making shoes to making music to then he he thinks that he can reorganize the free world let’s say um and so whether or not we think that he can be able to do it there’s something about his intuition which is right and something about the way he perceives these patterns which is of course right and something about his honesty as well so those were just a few thoughts about the discussion between khani and droh rogan i’m sure there are many more insights that one can get from what he’s saying a mix of excitement and if you’re attentive also a little bit of frightful things and also a kind of sense of this this spinning and spinning which is somehow nonetheless showing us some some golden nuggets of truth which he’s also saying at the same time and so i thank you for your attention guys and i’ll see you very soon i hope you enjoyed this discussion on khani and droh rogan as you know everything we do here on the symbolic world is thanks to your support so if you like what i’m doing and of course considering that we’re not on the good side of the youtube algorithm please go check out the symbolic world dot com slash support to see how you can support it and you can also check out some of the designs that i’m working on including and of course particularly the watch the fool design which was done in collaboration with owen cyclops and if you don’t know owen you can check him out on on twitter and i think he’s on instagram as well people who support the work i’m doing get an extra video a month this month will be a continuation of an interpretation of the story of sir gawain and the green knight