https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=vS_BNpUDnfY
Because, you know, as a pastor, I know you say, okay, people should, I’m going to start reading the Bible. They go through Genesis like, oh, Genesis was great. They go through Exodus and you get the Sinai and wow, Exodus is great. And then after Sinai, we’re not there yet. I know I keep telling them like, okay, you, you, we better like we better set up some, some, some notions or better set up some structures of understanding how this is applicable right now, because when we get to take a sword and cross the camp and slash as much as you can, like when we get to kill all the, you know, it’s like we better have a way to understand this because like our ideals about freedom and whatever, like all this stuff that people want to put into Exodus and about like freedom from slavery and all this stuff, like you better be ready because what’s coming is rough. And I think there’s, there’s way, there are ways to talk about it. I think the Church Fathers have ways to discuss it. If we understand reality fractally, then, then the application that is made personally is not just a metaphor. It’s not just, it’s actually not just a, like an arbitrary allegory that the fathers came up with. It’s actually applying the pattern of the story to yourself, you know, and then the sacrifices become self sacrifices, right? The Egyptian that you kill is the one inside you. And so it’s a transformation of the interpretation into the person and then all of it can be applicable. But unless we do that, then good luck, like good luck with the, with the, with the purging of the camp there, fellows. Well, not only that, but also the, the furnishings of the tabernacle. Yeah. Like how are you going to understand any of that stuff? Right? Why all of these chapters, God is giving detailed instructions on this is what the tabernacle is supposed to look like. I mean, it’s, it’s almost like he’s, I always liken it sort of like the tabernacle is sort of like a nuclear containment unit because what happens often is God breaks out into the camp and people die. And so the kind of attention given to the furnishings of the tabernacle, the, the rituals of the place. It ends with the description of the tabernacle. Yes. And so, but that’s the body, like that’s the embodiment that we’re talking about. It’s like the final embodiment of all of this, where it’s leading to, which is an embodiment of sacrifice and worship. Like that’s actually the mediating. So all the mediating principles are now in place in terms of the law and in terms of space and in terms of relationships of people and relationships of authority. All of this has now been established and now it’s practiced. It’s right. And people always think that the, that what happens on Sinai is just about a bunch of moral codes you’re supposed to use. Like you said, it’s actually mostly about the tabernacle. It’s mostly about an order of worship, an order of procession, right? A manner in which we engage with each other in a ritual worship sacrifice sense. That’s actually what’s probably the prime drive of where we’re going in terms of Exodus. So, but that’s all related to what we’re talking about. It’s very much, Exodus is actually, I’m really happy that we’re doing Exodus because Exodus is really about the discussion that we’re having now and understanding the relationship between the embodied practice, which instantiates these patterns that are above. And that’s what Exodus is about the whole time. And some of it does include having to remove the patterns or remove the things that don’t fit. And it looks weird in the text because it does look weird. In the text, it’s like, well, yeah, it’s killing a bunch of people. I understand that that’s difficult, but it’s like, you can either just be annoyed and angry and just scream and shout, fine. Or you could try to understand it and realize that whatever you get involved with that has this pattern, you’re going to do that, right? It’s like, if you’re in a basketball team and then someone comes with a baseball bat, you’re going to say, I’m sorry, you need to go home because this is not what we’re doing. We have to purge you from this team because it does not fit with the aim that we’re going to. And so unless we are able to look beyond, I mean, I don’t want to minimize the madness of some of the things that look really crazy to people in that book. But if we want to understand it, then we need to be able to see what it’s referring to in terms of a pattern and in terms of embodiment. So anyways, sorry. But it’s like we’re not there yet because we’re just at the law. Like we just basically in the Exodus seminar, we’ve come to the Ten Commandments and we’ve read the Ten Commandments and then that’s it. Like we didn’t even interpret them because so but there’s already some of it. Like when you see Moses going up, you see the problem. Like when Moses goes up the hill and then the people forget him and then they make the golden calf. And it’s like, okay, so because God says to Moses, you will be God to Aaron. You will be God to Aaron and then Aaron will be your mouth to the people. And so you can imagine it’s like the hierarchy. It’s a hierarchy of manifestation. So then Moses leaves and then Aaron makes a golden calf. It’s like that’s how it works, folks. It’s like if you don’t stay connected, then these things at the bottom become idols. And so unless they’re connected all through, then that’s the problem. That’s when things become idols. And so it already makes, I think people are going to be able to, people who watch our content, like people who listen to John or watch my videos and everything, will be able to understand what’s going on in the books of Exodus because it’s all about that. Well, there’s definitely the problem of let’s say Canaanite slaughter. So we’ve got those issues. But to me also the question is, you’ve got the second half of the book of Exodus, which is all about furnishing in the tabernacle. How does the tabernacle function? And then you’ve sort of got the decalogue, the 10 words. But then you’ve got all of these particular other little laws. And then of course, that’s going to lead to Leviticus, which is even more of that. And then it’s going to lead to Deuteronomy, which is sort of a, I remember in seminary doing a little bit of a detailed study between the laws in Exodus and comparable laws in Deuteronomy and the changes between them. And of course, that gets in biblical scholarship. That gets into a whole thing. But the, I mean, a lot of the heart of the conversation is, okay, how do we then live? Because quite clearly the tabernacle and the more specific laws flow out of the Exodus and the decalogue. And it’s all the application. And I think, you know, part of what I would like to hear from you and from Jordan, and especially in conversation with others, we have some Jewish members in our Bridges of Meaning community is, okay, how do we deal with, you know, okay, you can’t weave, you know, you can’t wear a garment of two fabrics. I mean, all of these- That’s super easy to understand, by the way, Paul. Yeah, that was super easy. But that’s the low hanging fruit. Yeah. The tabernacle. Yeah, why the tabernacle is set up the way it is. Like, I mean, I think that some of the details of the tabernacle, I think, are definitely obscure to me. Like, there’s some, like, you know, the hoops and the, like, some of it becomes like, okay, like, at least in terms of meaning, like, it seems like, okay, well, you need hoops to hold the thing. And I hate because we were like, oh, Jonathan’s saying just, right? Jonathan’s saying just to hold the thing. But I just because I don’t, I don’t hold it in light. But in terms of the basic structure of the tabernacle, I think that it’s extremely coherent in terms of, in terms of an ontological hierarchy. And it actually repeats the story in Genesis. It’s actually, it’s almost a narrative repetition of the fall moving from the tree, you know, the candelabra, let’s say, and the cherub on the altar. So you have a little mini paradise, and then you have bigger versions of it moving all the way to the garments of skin. And then ultimately to the altar of the fire on the outside, the fire and water on the outside, you have the laver and you have the, so it’s like, you see it like it’s in Exodus, right? The fire, the column of fire and the column of water in Exodus are related to what you end up finding in the tabernacle. A good way for people to understand it is that during the plagues, those get mixed up. There’s like, there’s fire and water and it’s destroying and it’s all mixed. And then God separates that into two guiding principles, two pillars, you could say. And then those end up in ultimately in the tabernacle. They also end up ultimately in the temple as Yaqen and Boaz as the two pillars of the temple. And so there’s a structural element, like to understand the structural, the thing is, I’m not sure. One of the things I think I might do is, because obviously this is a conversation between eight people. And so, you know, I was, you always measure like, you’re like, okay, when should I make say something and I need to make it impactful. I need to make it relevant. One of the things I might do is when the Exodus seminar comes out, I might make my own Exodus, like, you know, just to kind of say, well, if you like what I’m saying there and you like what Jordan’s saying there, you want more, like here’s a bunch of videos that go through Exodus as well. So I’m thinking about doing that just because obviously some people are going to tell me like, why didn’t you say this? Like, why didn’t you? I was like, you know, it’s like you’re with eight people. So you find the moment and you try to measure your involvement. So, but it was fun. It was a lot of fun. Where did you do it? In Miami. We recorded in Miami. Oh, did someone have a place in Miami or was it just kind of a rented space that they use? Well, Daily Wire, Daily Wire, they basically run out of two places out of Nashville and Miami. Oh, okay. And so they rented us. They have a staff studio. They rent there and they have a team that comes to film. And so, okay. Yeah. Well, any idea when that’s going to be released? I think it’s in November, but I think it’s for the Daily Wire Plus. I think that’s what I, that’s my understanding. There we go. I got my, I paid for my year because it was cheaper a month. Someone on Twitter right away when that got announced, someone at Twitter, this means Paul VanderKlay is going to get a Daily Wire Plus subscription. I thought, no, I’m not going to do it. It was a day later. I bought it. It’s like, no, I got to do it. Well, I mean, yeah, because I mean, some of the contents definitely, definitely. I think, I think they’re going to do some, some public, some they’re going to do both. I don’t know. We’ll see. I was happy that the conversation with you and John and Jordan, that that was completely on YouTube. I was happy about that.