https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=o74rQmLRqtA
Your whole thing about the climate change. Oh gee climate change I’m not even gonna go and argue the the scientific mere argument I’m not your solution right now is to tell me we stop all carbon emission We stop all fossil fuels right now Right now But Jonah, what does that mean if we did that? What does that mean if we did that? It means it means poor people will freeze in the dark and bake in the Sun while they starve Thank you. You just signed a death warrant for 1.3 billion people of them 1 billion black people and you just told me that black lives matter So even when it come to climate you’re full of it Hello everyone, I’m pleased today to be talking to Ms. Magat Wade who’s known for advocating for a prosperous innovative Africa through entrepreneurship and economic freedom She is the founder of skin is skin And she’s the founder of the African economy and the African economy And she’s the founder of the African economy and the African economy She is the founder of skin is skin.com a skincare company that manufactures in Africa and sells products in the US and as a Practicing and successful African entrepreneur can bring her experience to the table when discussing obstacles to doing business in Africa as compared to the US Magat has concluded that those who purport to care about black Africans Should support free markets and affordable and reliable energy including fossil fuels Her forthcoming book the heart of a cheetah available soon through magat wade.com Will provide detailed suggestions for how to accelerate progress for Africans She is a blunt straight talker who has little patience for the Anti-capitalist pieties favored by many so-called allies of black people Thank you very much for agreeing to talk to me today Thanks for having me Jordan. It’s a pleasure being here So let’s start with a bit of your history You’re let’s talk about your company and where it’s founded and how you managed to establish it and what sort of obstacles you did face Sure. So it’s whenever someone asks me my god tell me about your story I start I take you back to Where I was born and in Senegal the west coast of Africa and there I primarily really my story started with when my parents Right around age two. I was done with breastfeeding My mother decided that it was time for her and my father to go and seek better pastures You know to afford us a better life back home And that’s when they made the journey that so many Africans make you know to Provide for a better life for their families and it’s at a time where they decided to migrate from Senegal to Europe Unfortunate many people have made the same journey before them and after them many Unfortunately did not make it under as good circumstances as they did because they could do it in a legal way Which means you can take legal pathways and routes that are not as dangerous as others So my parents become economic migrants like many other Africans before them and after them Went to Europe and of course, you know managed to build a very good life for themselves And so they left me behind to be with my grandmother and right around age seven It was time for me to be reunited with the family unit That my my father and mother have you know constitute and so the it was decided And how you’re going to set to Germany and Jordan I will never ever forget when I first sat foot on that continent in that country my first time ever leaving my village And I just remember being like wait a second How come they have that and we don’t and that was I was just looking around, you know all of these paved streets compare that to Unpaved streets back home walking. I’m walking around my feet are always dusty ashy always have to wash them back when I go home How come they have that meaning, you know back home when it’s to get a shower My grandma would have to heat a pot of hot water put it, you know on the stove and when I say stove It’s not you know, you go into your kitchen and you turn the stove and you know, the burner comes on. No, no No, it’s like she’s establishing like a little Little stove literally that’s off of the ground just like when you go camping, you know where you put the charcoal So put the charcoal in has to get it going and then she puts a pot of water on it Then it boils and then we bring a bigger bucket put that hot water mix some cold water to it and then and One of my cousins stronger would drag it to the shower area and there with a smaller pot I would then for go on to have my shower compare that now to Germany. My mom is like my god time to shower I’m like so you mean I jump in there and I turn the knobs on You know this one this one and then the water comes down at the temperature I need it and all of that took a blink of an eye to happen Are you kidding me? Even you walk into the stores? Everything is aced into in the summer Hated in the in the in the winter. It’s just like this ease of life I think that’s what as a little girl I was seeing this ease of life What are you talking about? And so eventually that question of a little girl of How come they have this and we don’t became with time? How come some countries like mine Senegal and other many African nations are poor while nations like the United States France all they’re rich. How come how come some nations are poor while others are rich and It’s a question that never left me and it defined my life that question defined my life Well, so let’s walk through that because that is a crucial question. I read a book a while back by a Harvard Professor emeritus called the wealth and poverty of nations and it addresses that very question and one of the surprising conclusions he comes to is that a huge part of what makes some countries rich and other countries poor is The presence of an almost universal trust in matters of trading and so for him I think his name was Landis the most valuable natural resource is actually Trust and I would say also a bit of lack of envy because With envy it makes it impossible for anyone to have anything because everyone else is jealous and angry about it and well That’s one of the pathways. Let’s say to wealth. What have you concluded? I mean you’ve been thinking about this your whole life ever since you went to Germany when you were seven, right? right, so I’ve been thinking about it my whole life and Looking for answers my whole life and as I was growing up and moving around, you know, I You know, I heard it from some very People who with a straight face will invoke the IQ fury or darling It’s not your fault you see, you know because in a world where you being black It varies a fury out there that you’re just not as smart as white people I’ve gone to conferences where I there was panels and people talking and making that case I heard people say oh darling. It’s just because you know malnutrition You know, you guys are just not well-nourished and just because you know others say Oh, if only if you had access to greater education and I’m like you go say that To the countless young Africans in my country Senegal You know the joke is the first job of a graduate is to be a street seller how many of these people on the street you see them hustling in between cars in a very dangerous way under the hot sun and You ask them. What did you study and they’re telling you I have I have an MBA in Finance in math and they’re right there doing what they’re doing I was just talking to a person in Swaziland and what swatini it used to be called Swaziland I mean beautiful math background and I said, what are you doing now? Because I’m considering hiring her remotely and she said well, I’m raising chickens All she can do right now is raising chickens So if you’re gonna make it about education you go talk to those people first and you go and you come back and talk to me about it And then other people just oh Maybe if I give you some free shoes if I give you some shoes, you’ll be better off Tom shoes buy some shoes so that some other people have a better life all of this nonsense Jordan I’ve been hearing throughout times but guess what none of them made any sense to me because if you’re gonna make it also about Let’s say even use the IQ which I should not even give a minute to but come then how come the same person? Same background same education. Let’s take even my parents all of a sudden they make it to Europe and Voila they can manifest the greatest potential so I’m starting to think maybe it’s not about this person Maybe there’s something else that’s not about this person per se in this situation and then I’m like maybe it has to do with a place they get to be in or not and so That was starting to brew in my head. So as all of this is happening, I’m living my little life. I From Germany a couple years later My family decided we’re gonna move to France for in a stay in Europe for many reasons because you know France used to be the color is Senegal is an ex colony of France and then after my business school in France I decided that France was gonna be too small for my ambitions. I gotta get out of here I don’t want to be in a country where you have to be if you make it to the right school you keep the right behind For the right amount of time then you can hope maybe for some type of promotion. No, that was not for me I’m not saying that everybody does that but it was just not a good a good option for me So I Looked around and I could go anywhere literally as I wanted and I thought about the United States this one country where you can Anyone can become anything they want as long as we put in the work and if that’s what they desire to do And so I came to the US and when I came to the US I was first Head hunter in finance in Silicon Valley in the heydays of a dead calm I used to go to Netflix when Netflix was his tiny office in San Jose Google when most people didn’t even know how to pronounce Google was one little building In the Silicon Valley and so there I got to see all of this entrepreneurship happening And so Jordan this is where at some point something happened and I’m taking a little detour here But this detour is so important because it will you I will I will get you to my answer But it’s because it’s right there. So while I was in Silicon Valley I was pretty much steeped into what they call the ecosystem of the entrepreneur and Just this idea of two people getting together. They have an idea right in the back of a napkin This was it sounds cliche, but I lived it I’ve seen it and then they go to a lawyer to start their business to start, you know The company legally find some investors and this whole ecosystem that comes around them And then I start to be like wow, this is rather amazing And I think it’s in Silicon Valley that I discovered The magic of entrepreneurship is to create something out of nothing and that to me was so powerful so powerful I was living it in my bones and from there But as you as you pointed out there are a lot of moving parts in that system aren’t there because absolutely you need you need people who have an entrepreneurial vision and who think of themselves that way and Then you need a group of people around you like that to talk to and then you need early stage Financers who are often friends and family who are willing to contribute time effort money and then you need later stage Financing and there is a hole and the ability to work with customers and the willingness to market and sell and so all of these Pieces have to fall into place before anything like prosperity can can back and can back So, okay, so you you encountered this in Silicon Valley and what did that do to you? Yeah, so I encountered a very secret valley But just before you go when you were talking about the early investment is your family new friends We like to talk about the three F’s family friends and fools. So the fools are very useful there So in any case So here I am in Silicon Valley and you know, and I was doing extremely well for myself at age 25 I was making six figures both my home with a pool in one of the most expensive zip codes in America And I say it more for what can happen in this country I could never ever have dreamed of such a life in such a young age being who I am in back in back home in France so Right there, you know the American dream does exist it was real for me an immigrant from Africa. So But you know Jordan with all of that success One day I lost it one day I was driving down Big Sur one of the most beautiful Roads he asked me in the world with the highway one highway one with a man. It’s something It’s so beautiful you you cannot not believe in God when you’re on that path, okay, that’s how beautiful it is If you’re taking hairpin corners in a convertible Absolutely, and you know, it was one of those moments that day was one of those days when the Sun was as usual was shining The ocean was beautiful. I was you know, listening to some you send her in my car great Musician and just just feeling just feeling so much gratitude and also so much pride in myself for what I was able to accomplish and so much gratitude for everyone and everything that helped me get there and Just as many times just like it happens every time I got to that moment of bliss Right away my mood turned This everything became dark as it usually does because why because right at that moment? I started thinking about the people that I had left back home and It happened oftentimes through that throughout time through my life for my life, you know, because how how else? Do you feel? when you’re growing up and You hear your parents or you read the news you hear the news and it’s saying that a body Dropped from a plane somewhere above England Because someone decided to migrate Right to Europe for a better life to second my parents did but they did it again under better conditions and they thought it would Be a good idea to hide into a landing the landing gear but somewhere above, you know London above England the body falls or they open the plane and they find it a cargo section of a plane a frozen body Somebody thought it would be a good idea to hide in the cargo section of a plane No one told them it gets so cold up there or you know, this boat just tipped This little fisherman’s boat just steps up, you know somewhere along between the coast of Senegal and Spain which is the first entry into Europe for these people but the boat tipped over it is not equipped to make this journey and In the boat you have babies you have young people primarily young people and these are Some of our most entrepreneurial people the people that we need to build the prosperity back home And where are they now lying at the bottom of the ocean serving as fish food How else would you feel if for years growing up these are the stories that you have you’re hearing and yet Why do you why do you think your conscience bothered you at that point? I mean you had been yeah, you had been you come to the States you you become successful You had this beautiful day And so why all of a sudden do you suppose your thoughts turn to the people that had been left behind so to speak? I mean, it wasn’t your fault that they were in the state they were in. Yeah I know it wasn’t my fault for sure. It took me a long time to accept that it wasn’t my fault So what happened that day is I no longer was able to play the schizophrenia game, but I played my whole life I was no able no longer able to the coping mechanism that I had developed up till then no longer was holding The coping mechanism But I had developed back for all of these years was as soon as I start thinking about it I would have to tell myself This is not your fault. You you have a life to live. It is not fair I would tell myself all of these stories and then I would just shrug it under the rug act as if it But that day for some bizarre reason it just no longer worked and I lost it. I lost it my bar It was the feeling was so violent that my body jerked literally and it’s a miracle that I’m talking to you because It might my body jerk so much that with it the steering wheel and I was gonna end up down below in that ocean But for some reason it didn’t and as soon as I found a spot to stop I stopped and I got out of the car Something major had happened. I still don’t explain what it was. But at that time Jordan, I surrendered I said God from here on I’m showing up and I promise you and I want you to help me Make sure that every breath I take from here on is gonna go towards the bettering of my continent Right, I just made that deal with God. I said this is what I I’m showing up for this I present and I offer myself This is why did you think why did you think this was? Between you and God so to speak because it was so big It was so big and It was so big and he’s the only one that I trusted to help me with that the only one And most importantly, I had no idea what to do about it But I knew that faith Would be my best ally in this until I could figure it out Would be my best ally in this until I could figure it out Yeah, well faith faith sometimes is the courage to do difficult things You know what? It’s a very good way to look at it And maybe maybe that’s what happened that day because that day I was definitely not Not winning or let I say not capable at least of being a coward about it anymore Because my whole life I was pretty cowardish about it if you think about why how why why cowardly? Why would you say that about yourself? I don’t know. It’s just because I don’t know The idea that in order to no longer feel the pain I would have to push it under the rug I don’t find that I see I don’t find that very courageous But I didn’t know what else to do because otherwise the pain was just going to drag me into places But at least I had the sanity to know we’re not safe or healthy for me until I knew how to get into those dark spaces Right, which by the way, I learned afterwards because afterwards I used knowledge To my rescue Understanding really helped settle everything. Yeah. Well, it is a terrible thing It is a terrible thing to look on the poverty and the corruption Let’s say of an entire continent and and in some sense the entire world And to contrast that with your own prosperity and then to realize at least in principle that you have a moral duty to do something about it That’s exactly that’s no trivial undertaking. That’s exactly okay So so you’re on the side of the road and you’ve pulled over and you’ve had this realization so continue Yeah, so I pulled on the side of the road I had this realization and eventually Um, I said from here on this is the path i’m taking and I want you to help me So show me the way I will I will be a good a good disciple And so and these things started to change With um, and it started to change with few months later uh my Husband who was french and I talk about him in the past tense because poor soul he passed away Um shortly after you know after all of this like we barely we had Maybe a year together. I didn’t know that then but um, I took him home to senegal to see the place I came from And there he was asking me about this hibiscus beverage. I’ve been telling him about forever You know, you know how how it is when you’re not from the same culture That the first thing to teach one over is what you love about your respective cultures And that’s how a better culture is born out of that mixing in any case We’re there and it’s like where I want to try the hibiscus you’re talking about. So, you know everywhere we go At the restaurant or within my friend’s fam or friend and family homes you go there and they often bring you to this plate coke fenta pepsi I’m like, where is the hibiscus? Girl, where have you been? So basically what happens is what has happened? Anybody who feels like is a somebody drinks the western soda pop brands The ones I just talked about and and the bottom of the pyramid, which is the bulk of the people they bring they drink knockout brands Knock out those knockout brands and in between The traditional indigenous drink that we used to have is squeezed out And with them the livelihood of the women who are primarily the ones who used to grow the raw material, which is the hibiscus So now these women are leaving the countryside going and packing themselves into cities and they’re you know Begging on streets prostitution maybe working in people’s homes where they’re being treated horribly So anyway, this cycle of poverty is just keeping going and and there I thought I was done with with being depressed sometimes about the situation back home. I fell in a literal depression I for three days my body my body was not willing to obey me anymore. It was just like i’m done I was so disappointed with the world because now here I am not only do I have my people now dying, but now I also have my culture dying because My hibiscus drink which is called bisap. Bisap is called it’s the juice of taranga taranga means hospitality That is what the people of senegal are known for So this is a part of our cultural identity yet. It is not on that plate that they brought me So when I think of a plate I think of a world stage and when I think of the drinks on it I think of the cultures of the world that matter So much that they’re on that plate. Well, what am I seeing? I’m not there and that’s a big problem Because if you’re not there, it means your culture is disappearing And if your culture disappears the only time people might remember me in the future is going to be in museums Why do you use the metaphor of the table? You know what? I never thought about it. I don’t know. It’s just something that came to my mind When I saw that it was just like I saw that plate I saw the drinks on it And it was just our world was right there the plate was a world. It’s a divine symbol, right? That that’s an ancient divine symbol that that in some sense that the collective table the table of the gods To have a seat at the table is to be part of the conversation and to be part of the elect in some real sense you know to be welcomed in with hospitality and to share and to distribute and to Mutually enjoy that’s a very very old idea So it’s very striking to me that that that that that was the metaphor that sprung to mind because we want everyone to come To the table, don’t we? That’s the plan. We do and that’s absolutely That’s a very good point. I never made the connection but now that you’re bringing it up it makes it It does make perfect sense. Actually Interesting. Okay. Yeah, that’s for sure. That’s for sure interesting Well, you you you know you you started that part of our conversation with a bit of an introduction to a religious experience That you had while you were driving and the fact that that Table metaphor popped up there makes perfect sense from a symbolic perspective You know, you also want the table to be laden with With the finest of produce right and you want it to be a place of plenty and generosity as well as hospitality And and an invitation to everyone to enjoy that’s all part of life more abundant and that’s right Bringing everyone to the economic table is a way of of moving forward towards that goal. That’s right Okay, so the hibiscus drink that really bothered you. Yes. So So I got ill For three days. I was just shut down. I could not move anymore. I was pissed off. I was disappointed. I was sad I was depressed And my husband’s like my god This anger of yours it’s energy but it’s negative energy You’ve got to find a way to turn it around into positive energy when it becomes inspiration and then you use it to fuel yourself and with with that and this Old concept I grew up with of criticized by creating it’s Michelangelo’s but that’s very much the rules under which I was raised I don’t need you to have a right answer You know my grandma or my father would say but I need to know that you have thought of alternatives They don’t have to be the right ones But I want to know that you have thought of a right of solutions because when you’re in solutions mode You no longer are a victim. It’s it’s a completely different mindset and I think that’s more what they were going for You know, the other thing that’s interesting about that too. I think is that first of all, I think that’s a good rule of thumb but also people have problems and they’re often annoyed and oppressed by the fact they have problems, but First of all, you don’t have all the problems in the world You have your problems and the problems that bother you and you might ask yourself Well, why do those problems bother you and not other problems? And I would say maybe it’s because in those problems you actually find your destiny And those are often things you don’t want to look at like you didn’t want to look at the poverty of your Of your continent and no bloody wonder who wants to look at that? But it was something that bothered you it turned out that was your problem And if you faced it well then you figured out on that road that that was your destiny properly thinking properly speaking Yes, and it was not always easy for me to recognize that or to see it as clearly as I do today But yes, if I did not follow that if I don’t if I did not pursue that question I would not be sitting here talking to you right now because there would be no reason for for it. So So there We’ve criticized by creating Turn this anger Energy into positive energy into inspiration. Then i’m starting to come back to life. I’m like, you know what? Yeah If i’ve got a problem with this situation, I got to fix it myself So i’m going to start a company i’m going to start a brand And we’re going to sell it first in the us because i’m going to do reverse Colonialism on my people if the only time they can respect something is if the west has said Oh now we welcome it then i’m going to trick you the same way Hoping that the second generation the next generation that comes after you Luckily for them they won’t need that type of validation because they were born in a world in which they were Just fine in a world in which they were the eight people, right? So but this is a detour I need to take let’s take it So with that I just became very galvanized and so we started this business and my whole thing was i’m going to start a brand I don’t want to start an NGO telling people you should respect africans or you should respect this ingredient or these poor women are losing No build a brand because brands have such a power to influence culture and I was dealing here with a cultural issue first and foremost and so build a company hire people back home and Make the brand pop in the us And then you have your virtual circle where the jobs are created back home and your culture also takes its rightful place at the table And that’s exactly we that’s exactly what we did I started this company in my kitchen and eventually by the time you look around you have on my board Roger enrico the ex-chairman of pepsico you have a german gentleman who started, you know, sobhi that was sold to us to Pepsi and then also odwalla which was sold to um coca-cola So all of these who’s two of the business of the of the beverage world were sitting at my table helping me run this company again Something like this. I could never have done this If I was not in this country So this is where we are now, but you know what jordan then what happened there I was starting to get my answers Because as we built this company the sister company was based in senegal And it was mostly for the the supply chain side And then another sister company was built in the u.s for more marketing rnd sales and Sales the sales channels. That’s what the sister company was doing And would you know that as I was building this company at least back then It took it would take you a quick 20 minutes maybe faster depending on how fast you type to establish an LLC online Compare that to the compare that to the almost two years It took me To legally register the sister company in senegal Right, so let’s let’s just let’s just focus on that for a minute Okay, so you’re comparing 20 minutes To two years Right, so then you have to ask yourself and i’m sure you have Is how much time and energy do people have like it’s not an easy thing to set up a business It’s a daring thing and there’s a tremendous amount of risk involved and you’ll probably fail. That’s the risk side Now you might succeed beyond your wildest dreams But if you exhaust all your hard working and entrepreneurial people by forcing them to jump through idiot hoops non-stop All that you do is keep people absolutely impoverished and so that we’ve got a key issue with regard to poverty right here Which is the presence of a stunning amount of unnecessary red tape So how is it? Do you think that the u.s has managed to make it so that you can register a company? In 20 minutes whereas in senegal it takes two years and you know, I read a great book called the mystery of capital Yeah, i was gonna bring him up yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, de Soto’s great man That’s a great book and he points out that in some of the so-called developing countries, especially the more corrupt ones Not only does it take multiple years to do anything at all legally But by the time you jump through all the hoops to do it legally the laws have been changed So that what you do is no longer valid. That is absolutely that is absolutely the case So you’re asking me a very good question And the way I will go about that is there i’m gonna try to take this opportunity to debunk a myth because this whole conversation with you I take it as my opportunity to debunk so many myths about african poverty hence What would it take for african? To build african prosperity because i’m not interested in alleviating poverty. I’m not interested in just like oh Can I be a little bit less poor? No, I want to be prosperous. I think my people like anybody else should be prosperous So we should also point out let’s point out very clearly since we’re debunking myths That that’s actually a high ethical aim is that we want life more abundant for everyone. We don’t want to limp along Lowering our carbon footprint barely scraping the surface We want people to be prosperous and free and life to be abundant and everyone to have enough Educational resources and to thrive and that’s the ethical aim. That’s right to thrive to thrive human flourishing to me It starts and it ends with it human flourishing now what it means for somebody to flourish It’s going to be up to them to decide but do Should everybody have a access to human flourishing you betcha so Here I would going back to the question and why the u.s and in africanaut and then hernando de soto Uh making the case that oftentimes corrupt countries um make it so hard so there I the myth that I debunk is so often, you know, I talk to people and they’re like, oh africa These countries it’s this region is so corrupt and i’m like, yes My country might be corrupt Almost as bad as chicago You know what I mean by that. So corruption is if you will everywhere, but The way it manifests itself is different from place to place. And so I would like to argue on the order uh, and the relationship between Corruption and um these laws that hernando de soto was talking about the more they corrupt and the more you have to jump through hoops and Everything I like to argue that Corruption is a cause of senseless laws Is a cause too many laws and also senseless laws when you have those together then you breed you you you breed corruption Give you an example. This is another example that we had to go through Uh, my current company is a skincare company skin is skin So for that we have to import some ingredients because if you don’t have the You need you to You need the inputs that you need at the standard of quality that you need them in order to remain Um competitive in your marketplace. My marketplace is the united states That’s where the people have the money to spend all of this to spend on our products Uh, they understand our products. This is just it’s one of the best markets for us for many different reasons Um, we sell at companies we sell at places like whole foods market I don’t have to tell you it’s one of the most beautiful change of course stores in the u.s You can imagine that the buyers are super sophisticated and they don’t just bring any product in that in that chain But they bring us so which tells you the level of standard we’re playing at with world class world class So it means that everything behind the scene has to be world class the whole chain up and down has to be world class And so ingredients no different so we have to bring in some ingredients Well, guess what jordan for some of my ingredients the tariff is 45 percent to enter the country 45 percent others almost 70 percent How do you expect me to be? Competitive if you’re slapping such tariff on some of my inputs how? Because for every 50 cents you add on tariffs I have to sell my products two dollars more than I would have in order for me to actually make it I become very uncompetitive very quickly quality for quality product for the product So there we had to so now if instead of making it a 45 percent How about maybe it’s a zero percent like it is in the u.s When I have if I had to bring the same product here in the u.s zero percent tariff on it Or make it five percent or two percent three percent something that makes sense So then do you really think that i’m going to try to jump through the hoops of avoiding that 45 percent over 70 percent There’s no need pay the pay pay to move on because you’ve got better things to do See see how bad laws? and senseless laws Breed corruption because people will then it is cheaper and faster for people to pay the bribe and move on Than to adhere to the law you see so that’s what we have inherited in most african nations As I noticed The discrepancy and the difference between doing business back home and doing business in the united states At first I was like well, of course it’s like this. It’s just because you know, we’re a poor nation We’re messed up and that’s why that’s why everything else is messed up and then eventually I started to really think about it to think it through and it’s around the same time that god Again brought some interesting people In my life because at that time my company my first company at least was um You know now I had moved into the nonprofit. We had started a nonprofit because my goal was how can I help? Replicate whatever success I was able to have how can I help many other magats or my male counterparts from africa? Do exactly what I did with whatever product they deemed to do it with How could I help with that? And it is during that journey that I eventually even learned about the work of her nando de soto And when I heard about his work, he was right there telling me my god what you went through What you’re going through experientially experientially speaking is not an anecdote This is very very something very systemic about this and it is called economic freedom How easy or hard it is to do a business you have indexes that measure this? The most known of them being the doing business index ranking of the world bank and then you have a frazier institute Economic freedom index as well and others and others. Well, what do they all have in common? They all show you one after the other That it is harder to do business in anywhere in sub-saharan africa Than it is anywhere in scandinavia and I stick scandinavia purposely because people who are anti-business You know They need to know That scandinavia is more business friendly Is more pro-capitalist i’ll use the dirty word than almost any sub-saharan african nation And there right and so the scandinavian choice is a very interesting one because the rabid and idiot Anti-capitalists of the west often point to scandinavia as socialist countries But as you point out there well, they’re socialist on the edges and capitalist at the core and in a very very effective and efficient manner And so they are business friendly and precisely the manner that you described and those those Principles that you elucidated minimum necessary laws. That’s part of the english common law tradition Um minimum necessary force of enforcement. That’s another good one. Yeah, and and Well and What is it clear and you have and you also have clear and transfer and transferable property rights And you also have the concept of a rule of law as well Right, right, right. So so those are the some of the metaphysical and legislative substrates that make a free enterprise system possible because People often also think about only the market working but you need a set of regulations and also customs That’ll that the free market can run on top of like an operating system Yeah, exactly and I love that you’re using word of practice because this is going to take us to something else So so then but before we go any further There I want to point that as I was learning from the work of people like hernando de soto As I was learning from uh people like the man who became my husband I like to joke and say he brought me the answer to my little girl’s question. I Rewarded him with love. So I married him Um as I was looking at the work of people like him michael strong, you know People like john mackie of whole foods market their friends So that’s how I got to know john but they made me really get into a whole other world of people who truly care But what was different about these people is that they cared? Not on their own terms they cared but on the terms of the truth And we might go into that at some point, but let me just keep it there So there so what happened in that time of my life? As I was trying to see how can I how can I multiply my whatever success? I found out the answer. I started to connect the dots and I and I learned that eventually Wow. Yeah. Wow so You’re poor because you have no money No money because no source of income A source of income for most of us is a job Where do jobs come from the private sector? businesses, especially small and medium-sized enterprises Then don’t we shouldn’t we think about the environment of those businesses in which they get to thrive or not? I think we do but then where when I look there and I look at these indexes They’re all telling me one thing and one thing only is Your region is a poorest in the world because it happens to be the most over regulated in the world meaning that As many people fight for freedom and supposedly fight for africa’s rights No one thought about one of the most important of rights and freedoms After you have managed human rights in its you know global way economic freedom Well, you you list here in one of your articles where you make reference to these rating systems the bottom 10 countries for doing business in the world chad haiti Central african republic congo democratic republic south sudan libya yemen venezuela. There’s a lovely example eritrea and somalia And so there are three exceptions in the african ecosystem Mauritius rwanda kenya south africa botswana and zambia you pointed out in your Prospectus is a prospectus article prospectus article of art rich institute right that meretius is a rising star Rwanda is in some ways comparable to georgia. So some of these countries have started to get this right Yes, and so what’s the consequence of that and what does right mean? What they have understood what these countries have understood is that economic freedom? Is at the center for prosperity building uh rwanda for example paul kagami the president of rwanda Is explicit about it. He said he wants to be the likwang wu of he wants to be the singapore of africa And likwang wu is his model now the dirty mouths are going to start shouting. Oh, yes, see authoritarian blah blah blah Whatever me. I want to talk only about the um on the economic side If you take likwang wu and singapore as your example Then it means that like him You’re going to have to be serious about economic freedom And that’s exactly what he did. That’s what singapore did when singapore figured that out They went on to put in the right reforms to make their environment the most some of the most business friendly environments in the world one of the most free markets environment in the world And you saw the magic of singapore today singapore Today singapore is richer than its ex-colonizer Great britain. So when I hear people telling me today, oh Africa is poor because of colonization. I’m like, please let’s move on from that Does it have maybe a tiny percentage in where we are today? Maybe maybe and I don’t know But I know it’s not the cause because if it were many countless countries have been colonized before and by the way colonizing one another Is is humanity’s history it just happened that maybe africa has been one of the the last, you know Colonized region in the world. So in psyche it it is there and it acts like nothing happened before to others, but Flash news. It’s the history of the world. We’ve been capturing each other back and forth all of that. So anyway, but the truth is singapore richer than great britain today and then hong kong happened and then Because hong kong happened china even today happened because china’s like wait a minute What what went on over there and then china went on to do the exact same thing with its szz The special economic zones some of the most free market zones in the world And then look at it happen in communist china Who when it comes to economics decided that we’re going to do the free market We’re going to be capitalist because that’s the only way we tried everything else We killed hundreds of millions of people And we have and we have nothing to show for it But now that we’re tired of being disrespected members of society because guess what that’s the other thing too You want to be respected in this world? You’re gonna have to be among the more the prosperous ones for other reasons Would it be nice g that we respect people just because absolutely But that’s really not the world we live in so when china got tired of being disrespected They’re like maybe we’ve got to build also some prosperity here because then they’re going to hear us and today china Being one of the you know being where it is at Even hollywood hollywood who tries to tell the world how to think is being told by china What movies to make? And how to tweak stories and history in order to be palatable for them You see the power that comes with with being prosperous What would you recommend concretely to countries like senegal to get the hell out of the way? Let’s say of the people who would like you would try to would do everything they could to try to make it better One of the things that happened with india is india established the indian institute of technology Which is a deadly engineering school and a huge number of its graduates went to silicon valley as you well know and many of the successful indian graduates of iat started to dump money back into india and build a Capitalist infrastructure there help build a capitalist infrastructure there So this sort of thing can really take hold if you were making recommendations to governments who wanted to get on board and Stop being like chad heighty Central african republic congo south sudan libya yemen and venezuela, etc What what concrete state steps should they take from the bottom up to get the hell out of the way exactly? So two things we’ve been doing because i’m an i’m a practitioner as that’s my entrepreneurial journey. I’m an entrepreneur So I practice what I preach uh, but I also preach I preach for free markets and so when it comes to that, i’m One of the hats that I wear is as the Director for the african center for prosperity of the atlas network the largest organization in the world of free market think tanks around the world and so what we do there is we work on reforms Around the world to take down barriers of entry for local entrepreneurs. So that’s one thing But as we all know, that’s a great initiative to take and we’ve been making some really good advances in In in many countries, especially in gana. We’ve been making a lot of progress with our partners very many but Peacemail, but that is piecemeal legislation. It takes forever It is hard as heck and by the time you made a gain here You made 20 losses over there and it’s a continuous problem, but until we get better we got to continue at it So that’s one thing we’ve been doing and so that’s a hat I wear working with free market think tanks to try to make it easier for local entrepreneurs to to to join in the party Additionally, i’m going bold. I’m going radical for the past few years. We’ve been advocating an idea for africa that Found some of its roots in in latin america And again, i’m related to the people who are involved in this my husband been one of the key figures in this movement A movement called the charter cities paul roemer calls it like that. He’s a noble laureate in economics Um others calls it call it the free cities. I like to call it the startup cities So the best way to think about it jordan and it goes back to what you were talking about earlier when you said When you use the word operating software most of the poor developing most of the low income nations, so meaning Back in the days the way we used to call it is poor nations Are they have regulations for poverty? They’re basically regulated for poverty meaning the laws the set of law poverty. It only calls poverty and so what some of these folks have thought about looking at the dubai example dubai just recently entered the top 10 of the International financial centers of the world and what dubai did at some point is think about it and be like on this bare, you know sand Plot of sand that’s technically worth nothing right now as is this 110 acres of land Sand everywhere. They’re like, well, maybe sharia law is not the best for business Um, we got to think about better set of laws for business We’re talking about only about business not family law not anything else but business and they decided There’s got to be something better And so they looked around and it’s actually when to take one of the terms you used earlier. They’re starting to realize Common law is actually a better way for business specifically british common law So at that point and i’m oversimplifying here because otherwise we can totally geek out on it Remember, this is like one of my latest things that i’ve been involved in But latest it’s been the past 10 years and i’m going to share with you a win so dubai is like we have to Adopt a british, you know common law primarily british common law We’re going to hire retired british common law judges to come and educate the law here train our own people And that along with many other reforms to also become a top center when it comes to the And and free market when it comes to the finances dubai that british common law that british common law system So it’s very very interesting Theologically and metaphysically so it’s predicated on the idea that people have Every individual has all the rights that there are Except for those that are specifically regulated and limited by legal necessity and then generally that That realm of necessity has emerged only as a consequence of disputes between people So you’re free to do whatever you want unless you have a dispute with someone else Then the dispute is adjudicated according essentially to constitutional and theological principles And then a precedent is established then the whole body of law built up that body of precedents Yes, yeah, and it’s bottom up not top down. It’s totally an english common law is a gift from god, man It’s something else absolutely and that’s the key word there when you said bottom up So common law is so much better for bottom up approaches and we all know that markets work better in a bottom up approach and also when they have to educate the law and Resolve a dispute they’re going to be much more respectful to the contract that was passed between the two parties Than say civil law would be right and so anyway So from this standpoint here you have dubai who is now trying to put all of this together and eventually they put a set of laws Together that would now be conducive to being a top international financial center in the world And voila in less than a generation in less than 25 years dubai completely unrecognizable Completely, but they did not invent in that short period of time. That’s why I know you know the the chinese The purchasing power of the ab average chinese citizen is doubling every seven years. Yes every seven It’s it’s insane. It’s insane. Yeah, so we know it can be done and at the root of that is the same thing It’s economic freedom. It’s uh allow people the freedom to enterprise and dubai did it So dubai was one of the most recent ones to do it now the uae and abu dhabi is going the same way and they’re even trying to Outbid each other in terms of who is going to be even more free market So that’s something beautiful going on there. So people some folks have looked at that model and then be like wow So maybe let’s think about a plot of land ideally an rather unoccupied plot of land So you’re not you’re not being accused of uh, dis displacement displacing people or you know, confiscate Confiscation any of that so english is only my fourth language, uh jordan So sometimes if I stumble upon words, please be patient with me So anyway, so they thought about it and I said, okay So the plot of land think about it as your computer and think about the laws That rule that plot of land as you’re operating software And to start to think about governance As a new frontier and so now what you have is these governance entrepreneurs And it’s definitely where I have gone into i’m like forget piecemeal legislation We’re going to keep doing that until we have better but in the meantime i’m working this radical idea So for the past decade i’ve been working on um on uh convincing African governments to do this And finally, I can’t disclose the name today here, but we’ve signed an mo you a month ago with one of the western african nations who said Yeah, and it’s funny because when we approach them jordan congratulations That’s a major achievement. That’s like a world-shaking achievement. Thank you And we have a top team to work on this and so but it’s so funny because when we first met them The gentleman said he said my god What do you mean by common law because you know, they belong to a civil law like many french, um Ex-french colonies by the way, because see that’s another difference when france supposedly, you know at the end of colonizations of many african nations the british the british, um You know, um colonizers said you can do whatever you want Keep common do whatever you want. Whatever turns out most of those countries kept the common law and it’s actually easier when you are It’s actually easier for an african nation or any other nation or culture to actually build on top of common law Than it is to build on top of civil law. So see anglo- we should shout that from the rooftops Exactly, I agree. That’s absolutely right man. Common law is deadly is that uh civil law is deadly So so yeah civil law is deadly That’s okay Uh, so basically what happened there is um, so all of these francophone countries are still operating Uh francophone african countries are still operating on civil law for most of them for most of them And that world doesn’t know about that either just like when we started talking to this country they said what do you mean common law? Isn’t there only civil law that exists? I was like I almost fell I almost fell over And then even that you see because you live in your world you take so many of these understandings for granted because remember I’ve been spending my life asking about these questions and drilling and drilling and really, you know learning and then even The work of someone like george haitei ghanian economist who just passed away But he’s my intellectual father on all of this and I will bring him up in a minute So anyway, so here they’re like, whoa So when they discovered about oh there’s common law there’s civil law civil law happens To be so good for business blah blah blah and all of us and so now that’s um, so that’s what we’re working on And i’m telling you jordan. I don’t know where this project is gonna go But even if we only make five steps with it The floodgates have been open. I believe that with all my heart because all you need Is for a door in here to open up. Yeah, and then yeah, that’s all you need That’s a major door the one in there all you need so so these countries Who are at the bottom of the economic freedom index What sort of ideas do you think possess them? To constantly run interference in relationship to people who are trying to be entrepreneurial So I know one of the things one of the things that’s happened, you know since the berlin wall fell and the collapse of capitalism is that because The people who are pushing communist ideas are not quite as noisy and horrible as they once were although They’re certainly making a comeback that many countries around the world have been freed up to try to have not the worst economic policies They could possibly design but there’s still this lingering resentment and hostility towards entrepreneurial free market capitalism, especially at the local level that you’re describing that’s unbelievably toxic So what is it that’s possessing these countries that are at the bottom of the economic freedom index venezuela is a good example No, you’re giving me a goosebumps by asking me this question because you’re by asking it You’re going to allow me to share something that once again is also part of a myth busting And something that is totally unknown to people and i’m going to talk only for the case of africa because i’m sure for latin america the situation might be similar, but let me just talk about the case of africa because it is It is uh, it is a big continent enough that it should matter So and this is where the work of george aite Takes all of its power and importance george aite is a gunning economist. Like I said passed away recently But george gave me the last Piece to the cue of my answer because once I discovered that we’re poor because of our lack of academic freedom That’s the reason why we’re poor Then my next question was like but why why why is it that? Americans get to enjoy this academic freedom and we don’t what happened. Where did it happen? Have we always been there’s a mystery well, you know the thing it really is a mystery too because It doesn’t require much of an explanation To explain poverty and corruption right because we’re born poor because we don’t come natural state of man and corruption is corrupt That’s right. That’s the natural state of man. And so the the real mystery and this is a bloody mystery That’s for sure is how any country ever managed to escape that and the common law tradition is definitely a piece of that And yeah, of course America was fortunate enough to be founded on those principles. And so Okay, so continue if you would yes. Yes. So so yeah, so my question was just like yours once I discovered a bill i’m like And still why is it that these people have it and we don’t what happened to us? What’s going on and most important? So so then now i’m understanding also this this this battle between Socialism and capitalism the ideologies and how they’re fighting each other and for some bizarre strange reason Um the world including africans, um developed this idea this understanding that we are more socialist than we’re captives Naturally culturally i’m like i’m like i call bs on that because I call bs on that because you think again the same africans you bring them to a country where is economic freedom And voila let them manifest. I mean, did you know that? Most black doctors in the in the u.s are from nigeria Did you know that? Right and that um, yeah Well, I know that immigrants I know that black immigrants to the u.s do much better proportionally speaking than black people who are born in the u.s Right. So so there’s that but then I when I ask that question It’s when georgia eat in his work Brought me my fine my answer and that was the last piece of a puzzle and then everything made sense Okay, where our region is the poorest in the world because it’s the most overregulated region in the world Hmm, how did we get there? george takes me back george takes me back to a time that most people don’t think about Including myself at first because when most people think about the story of africa africans and black people in africa in general We go no further down than slavery. It seems like our collective history starts with slavery And george is reminding us. No, no, no They were They were before the white man ever set foot on the continent Black people were there They had different types of you know, like many different cultures many different uh society groups name it yet and then george made the case with his research that actually Pre-colonial africans We’re actually practicing the free markets. They were practicing free enterprise and it makes sense But so what what we were doing back then we in africa You could find some of the most sophisticated trade routes in the world Uh, you would go to places like great zimbabwe Where where basically you would see these homes these buildings built in a round shape with stone Whoever built that in those times was at the top of their craftsmanship at the top of engineering skill sets something quite Unbelievable so unbelievable and advanced that when the white people came they said there’s no way a black person black people could have built this You see so this is who we were And and the chief the chief could never say oh my god You made your bread now you come to the market and you’re at the market here You cannot sell it for one dollar more profit than the than I allow you to to jordan No such rubbish didn’t exist with us You had um, basically also this idea that we have to wait every four years or five years to vote No, we voted with our power of exit and you could exit every second that you wanted If you don’t like this chief and what he or she is practicing Vote with your feet get out you go join another another group or you go Start another group you name it But you’re not going to sit and fight with other people there just so that things can go your way you go and make it Happen your way or you go join others who are doing it your way And so for the longest time what we had was tribes Maintaining the peace did we have battles among us you betcha that’s again human nature But what was happening? We were tribes Working with each other and keeping the peace even knowing sometimes when to try to intermarry so that we even keep the peace more And then they came and they say oh gee aren’t you guys? Centralized savages and we’re going to civilize you and to civilize you is we’re going to bring this top-down governance approach to all of us See we were practicing Decentralized governance before and they showed up and they said to be educated is to have Centralized governance. What did you do when you do that now the tribes are fighting among each other? To take control of that centralized Govern government There’s a real tension there because it’s very difficult It’s very advantageous Obviously for people to be enmeshed together in large-scale groups like the united states 320 million people But then the question is how do you put in all the subsidiary levels of organization? So that just doesn’t become a monolithic state right and then the question too is well, how do you introduce that Large-scale integrated governance without absolutely demolishing the Microsocieties that make a part of it bring people together without undue bloodshed. Right. It’s a real catastrophic problem from a historical perspective It really is it really is so So so then uh, so then we went to go back to the story We go from we go from having tribes to now tribalism Because of his introduction so anyway Uh, so when they started when they came they said to us So so okay So all of that was going on and then eventually we were living our lives mining our own business Doing fine and I and I would argue that if we have been left alone We probably would be the more of the richest Continent in the world today if we had continued but we didn’t continue slavery happened after slavery colonialism happened At the end of colonialism This is where I would like to bring the attention of people because that’s that’s what george that’s what george is so well So beautiful in pointing Just around the time when most african nations were getting their independences Starting with gana We’re talking about the late 50s early 60s. Remember also what was happening back then we were at the height Of the battle between these two ethnicities Of the battle between these two ideologies on one end represented by the freedom And the economic practice was capitalism and on the other facing off with various forms of statism socialism communism and primarily their practice was you know, they were Socialism or communism and they were at like this with each other Around that time we’re getting our independence And you know what they said? at that point Remember try to put yourself back in those times because it’s so important You have these great liberators of africa Who have fought? For liberation we’re talking about rollins of gana. We’re talking about julius ne’erere We’re talking about people like thomas sankara later down the road We’re talking about these people right? And they have fought they have fought for the liberation of this continent they have given it everything they had and when uh, but what we don’t remember so what happened with these people is like oh, so now these two these two ideologies are fighting and it looks like we have to take a side because The two ideologies fighting we’re looking for influence and we’re looking for influence south, right? So And everybody’s looking on africa was trying to africa was trying to free itself from Domination by we were at least normally the capitalist west and there’s always the idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend Right, that’s exactly and that didn’t work out so well with the communists No And this is where we made the fatal mistake because at that point as we were looking for influence Us africans freshly liberated and I put quotation marks because i’m not sure we have been liberated Freshly liberated is saying look you West is who? Enslaved me first then colonized me. I am certainly not going to party up with you So we’re going to go in cahoots with them with um the eastern, you know with the not so free side And this is when they have been spending all of their times with the marxist socialists of their times And this is also times around which web du bois Did the dirty work he didn’t think it was dirty work, but he is the one who helped all of these Soon-to-be leaders of liberated african nations To really bite into these ideas because by then they had conflated slavery With capitalism with imperialism with colonialism common law with everything for them The whole darn thing was one big evil to throw out of the water and so they they threw the baby out of the bath water And when they did that they had totally forgotten their own indigenous roots because pre-colonial africans Practiced the free markets pre-colonial africans would have looked at this Marxist socialist and said this is heresy. You guys are crazy. This is not even part of our roots We are rejecting this with everything we’ve got But it did not happen that way. No, so this is how liberated nations of africa Got started on the wrong foot went to bed with the wrong people and six years later We have nothing to show for it because we all know what happens to people who follow the socialist route This this does fit in nicely with our earlier comments about venezuela because venezuela has taken exactly the same route and gone from A rich and and and post-colonial country to an absolute bloody nightmare in about 30 years And it’s also a consequence of of that entire country falling under the toxic dominion of these ideas But you can certainly understand Why that would have been attractive to the emergent african countries of the 1960s, right? I mean, yeah It is a hard thing to think through The idea that the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend And a lot of these marxist ideas which purport to have the poor in mind, but which truly don’t are extremely attractive even if you are Heartfelt in your consideration for the poor The problem is is that the only systems that seem to lift people out of absolute poverty are free market capitalist systems And they’re and they’re and they’re equivalent the kind of equivalent you describe characterizing pre-colonial africa That’s right And that’s why it’s so important for me whenever I bring up this part of the story to always that’s why I was saying Please try to put yourself back in their shoes back in those days because I believe that if I had lived in those times Hey, I would have been part of the people who fight for african liberation and I probably would have made the same decision To side with a social with a marxist socialist. I would have I think I would well half the western world made that decision And the chinese made that decision and the north koreans made that decision. I mean exactly And now we’re having a battle about the same damn ideas again Have invaded the west again. That’s the thing but this is where I as an african Will not have it Um while I excuse I think the mistake they made was fatal for us But hopefully it’s a mistake that would have had consequences for only the 60 or 62 plus years But since it’s we took those we made those decisions Uh, but today I take it upon my responsibility as a contemporary african, you know to Know better And on top of that, I also know the ways of my pre-colonial fathers Which to me now are the only ones I want to look at Are pre-colonial fathers, of course, is it that everything they did was right? No, this is why you know, we have progress in life, right? There are some things we know now We’re not so good, but we are some things that have to pass the test of time and place So maybe those we should keep so anyway So as an african living today with everything that I know and is available to know everywhere The research is very clear. The evidence is is rock solid I cannot in in uh in uh with in in all consciousness and Be a person of high morality I cannot disregard what I have learned and what I have experienced and what by now we know to be true So people like me The marxist socialists need to know for the longest time they have used us the black people to make their dirty deeds So maybe the black lives matter people the founders who are self-called marxist social marxist Fine if they want to go I I say fine. I’m not fine. I’m not fine Yeah, but if they want to if they want i’m not willing to be the useful idiot Idiot of a social of a social marxist any longer they have used as black people for too long They have used our suffering for too long. But today I know better to dissociate myself and so they’re gonna have to go look for other peons to to to to to You know to to mess their heads with but because people like me I know the truth and what I love about the truth that I had learned is that my pre-colonial forefathers totally would have stood by my devotion to the free enterprise they would have said Great great great granddaughter Thank you Thank you for looking back to our times and seeing what we were doing We were no more we we were on the right track girl. We were so today I think everybody has to make a decision for themselves, but me what I have learned That’s what i’m taking out and everything we talked about today. Jordan Is really not part of a mainstream Because you ask most people african included. Why are you poor? They’re gonna say colonialism They’re gonna say racism They’re gonna say because they’re taking all of our Uh natural resources and blah blah blah and so on and so forth and guess what? Those who claim to care in the west They leave us in that Misguided Opinion of what the problem is Because it took me So long I was with these people who said that they cared about me they cared about africa But as soon but I found that every time that they hear that the solution might be the free markets and capitalism The look of Disgust I think that’s the right word the look of disgust that they have in them face If I was not stronger, I would feel disgusted by myself for having those opinions So do you really care or do you only care when the solution that you’re peddling Goes to support your own ideology Yeah, and your own and your own moral claims yes to care yes, right because that’s the easy way out It’s like well I care and there’s some people who are well off and those people who are well off have stolen everything They have from the oppressed people and i’m on the side of the oppressed people and all I have to do is punish The oppressors and all of a sudden i’m a moral agent Yeah, and I can leverage the suffering of genuine poor people Whom we know have actually been helped out of their absolute poverty by capitalist systems We absolutely know that to be the case. I can leverage their suffering to bestow onto me an undeserved Moral superiority that’s right And then I can have my cake and eat it too because I can still be a denizen of the wealthy west And I can feel sorry for poor people and be oppressed at the same time Absolutely, and I feel like you’re even being too generous for them in terms of the work they put in because today That I care the only way it manifests itself in Work into action. I put a sign on my on my back on my yard with black lives matter period done If black lives matter so much If if black lives matter so much then you cannot with a straight face Tell me in the same sentence That you also are anti-capitalist And also if black lives matter so much What do you make of a fate of one billion black people because africa is home to one billion black people We’re 1.3 billion, but one billion of those are black Black It is home to 90 of the representatives of a black race yet to tell me black lives matter And you in the same sentence are going to be anti-capitalist the only thing we know To build prosperity and with that respect huh You cannot be possibly serious here And guess what flash news flash? People like me today are here to tell you how full of it you are because you’re full of it And i’m not going to allow you to no longer have your cake and eat it, too It’s just too easy When the stakes are so high and the same thing with your whole thing about the climate change. Oh gee climate change I’m not even going to go and argue the the the scientific You know argument i’m not Let’s say even agree with you that The world is going to go to hell in 12 years as they claim if nothing is done earth is going to blow up in 12 years Let’s go and freak out all the kids Because you know what it’s it’s justified Let’s say I even agree with you on that one and then I say And then we do what because your solution right now is to tell me we stop all carbon emission We stop all fossil fuels right now right now But jorda what does that mean if we did that what does that mean if we did that? It means it means poor people will freeze in the dark and bake in the sun while they starve. Thank you You just signed a death warrant And i’m going to talk about africa only for now you just signed a death warrant for 1.3 Billion people of them 1 billion black people and you just told me that black lives matter So even when it comes to climate you’re full of it And i’m willing to say that you’re just an idiot because you don’t know what’s going on but but even there And if you still with a straight face can say yeah, well to sacrifice the rest of the world Uh, i’m sorry to sacrifice. Um these 1.3 billion africans so that the left the earth can can stay Oh, really? How different are you then from somebody who enslaved me a little while ago does my really my life is worth that? Black black babies are gonna have to die so your white babies can stay alive You know sometimes when I hear the prince, um, who is that guy’s name? You know, the prince of diana had two kids I think uh the older one he and with a straight face the guy popped by the time he had popped child number four Had the nerves to tell us that the problem with the world is overpopulation earth cannot sustain Uh overpopulation from the guy who has four kids. So what are you telling me exactly because i’m you know marian tupi marian tupi from human progress.org. He’s publishing a book in august called, uh super abundance and he’s Redone a number of economic calculations showing for example documenting the extremely positive relationship between increased population and general prosperity And he calculated that every child born today will produce Seven times as many resources as he or she will consume see Right c is right. And so all these people who are squawking about there being too many people on the planet They have it’s always other people who are too many as exactly as you’re pointing out. That’s what I say. Absolutely So here’s prince whatever his name is telling me that the problem with the world is overpopulation While just having popped his fourth child. So are you telling me that your child can live but the other ones cannot? Because that’s pretty much what you’re saying because you popped these kids And if that’s what you’re saying if you’re saying that the ovenets the other ones cannot cannot then go on keep going with your thinking Yeah, right. Can’t they why can’t they why can’t they are you a closeted racist? Maybe not that we’re gonna we’re gonna see this we’re gonna see this play out in the fall This is coming just as certain as as the sun’s going to rise tomorrow You know the fact these environmental policies that have emboldened putin made europe dependent on oil and gas from russia That’s right. Now we have a shortage and we have a huge increase in fertilizer prices And we know perfectly well that about 150 million people most of them in africa and in And in in north africa and in the middle east and in sub-saharan africa are going to be suffering Dreadfully in the fall because of this and so we can see right away that what has happened when push came to shove is That the radical utopian marxist types who are beating the drum about the environment. We’re perfectly Willing to sacrifice today’s real poor to the hypothetical well-being of some future poor in their utopian schemes Absolutely, and that’s coming right away. No, it’s coming right away. And then what I what I what I what the One of the things that the ukrainian war has brought up to a surface because we’ve been talking about it forever But and then people like oh you’re being too, um, you’re not being you know But it’s the hypocrisy of these people the hypocrisy When I have a green party of all parties the green party of germany I don’t know if you heard it A week or so ago they came out and they said oh we have to keep burning coal a little while longer Oh really? Yeah, when you ask us on the line, we have to keep burning coal a little while longer Oh, but no, but the africans no, no So this hypocrisy is gonna the reckoning is coming the reckoning is coming because I for one I’m not willing to stand there and let them get away with it all of this time They made it sound like they have a moral high ground and I call not only that’s enough of that. I agree man That’s such a lie. I call bs. I’m gonna call them what they are these these anti-fossil fuel zealots are the new racists of our times And we can see clear in their game and we will not stand for it not so Uh a war is coming but the war that’s coming for me is not a cultural war I think the cultural war is too easy for them to to take to to win in a way But this one right here is going to bring them straight back to who they are um when I see that um jeff bezos ex-wife Gave a couple hundred million dollars to plant parenthood and she specifically earmarked it for black women Lady, can you please tell me the Your further thinking and we didn’t hear about it by the way in the bigger news So i’m just trying to understand why does the world think that it needs less black babies? It seems to me. That’s what it is so they We want to talk about racism. I think there is racism here that doesn’t speak its name But we’re gonna have to call it what it is. So it’s gonna be one thing or another. Uh, jordan one is you’re gonna have to i’m gonna hold you you have to tell me that Black lives matter if black lives matter then african lives have to matter if african lives do matter Then capitalism matters And if you make that case, we’re good Let’s good. Let’s keep working fossil fuels matter and fossil fuels matters and so people can burn Clean burning fuels in their house instead of choking their children to death on indoor pollution with indoor pollution So you’re gonna have to tell me that all of that matters if black lives matter, then it means um one billion african black african lives do matter which means capital matter which means fossil fuels matters If not, you’re telling me that It doesn’t because and and you don’t have to tell me black lives don’t matter for you to tell me it doesn’t matter all you have to Tell me is We can’t have fossil fuels And we can’t have capitalism if you tell me that then I know that de facto black lives that not matter for you And if black lives that not matter for you, then you’re racist done You want to go through this whole like white supremacist race and blah blah blah Today if you are not in favor of what is gonna contribute to my human flourishing As a black person Forget what supremacy whatever you want to call it that to me is the new definition of racism Let’s go. Yeah, that’s a really good. That’s a really good place to end I would say this part of the discussion. I want to talk to you a little bit more. We’re going to do this on the daily wire plus Network and I want to talk to you a little bit more about your personal experiences But I really want to thank you for having this conversation with me today And I think it’ll I hope as you said it’ll break up a lot of these they’re not just myths They’re toxic anti-truths And they’re hurting people in a way that we’re just beginning to become aware of and there’s going to be all hell break loose this fall Yes, so and i’m really sad and sorry about that because it was completely unnecessary As you as you know, we know the pathway forward common laws on that’s just that’s such a Firm foundation to build a prosperous society upon a proper free enterprise localized economy To get the bureaucrats and the resentful people the hell out of the way of people like you and see if we can get prosperity To grow everywhere in the world then maybe too when people get rich enough They’ll be able to afford to care about the environment a little bit instead of having to be forced into an Anticarbon environment by these idiot environmentalists zlots. That’s what I call it. Also the disrespect of the poor It’s it’s yes, absolutely Total disrespect for the poor thinking that you’re superior to them Do you think you’re superior to them just because you care about the air that you breathe? Gee, I think you would be just like this poor person if you had no food in your belly child is sick You don’t know how you’re going to take care of it Um, you you had all of these issues that come straight from your poverty I think that you two the quality of the air you breathe or the quality of the water you drink might be Numbered a hundred in the priority list because right now you have to survive So for you to think that something is wrong with them because they don’t care about that Well, maybe I’ll put you in that position and we’ll see when you’re going to start to think about that And so this is complete disrespect for the poor and it is unacceptable. It is wrong Great. I agree with you 100% All right, that’s great. So Thank you very much for talking. Thank you for much appreciate it was very good to see you again. Thank you I would encourage you to continue listening to my conversation with my guest on dailywireplus.com