Telos, the reason for live navigation (dbVmQQ4q8LE)

https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=dbVmQQ4q8LE

Young girl dancing to the latest beat, has found new ways to move her feet. And the lonely voice of youth cries, what is truth? Young man speaking in the city square, trying to tell somebody that he cares. Can you blame the voice of youth for asking, what is truth? Yeah, the ones that you’ll call in love, are gonna be the leaders in a little while. When will the lonely voice of youth cry, what is truth? This all world’s wakened to a newborn babe, and I solemnly swear it’ll be their way. You better help that voice of youth find, what is truth? And the lonely voice of youth cries, what is truth? Alright, well, welcome, welcome, welcome. What we’re doing today is telos, or telos, tomato, tomato, telos, telos, same thing. We’ve got our, uh, Sam Pal, big bottle, because it’s gonna be a long, a long day here. Get some wafer crackers, yum. Got toasted coconut snack crackers. Got some tea from the Table Rock Tea Company. And I got some Boil & Drew beer, because Drew beer’s great. So yeah, uh, good, uh, I love that song. I love my intro song, it’s fantastic. I’m so, so lucky to have a great intro song like that for these live streams. So, we’re talking about telos. And I’ve got my notes all set. I have some sad announcements, well not sad, but maybe relieving. The next two weeks, no streams. I’m on the road. So, I’m going to, uh, Tennessee, back to Dollywood next weekend. And, uh, after that I gotta drive up to New England, attend a party, and drive back. So, I don’t think I’ll be staying, staying very long up New England. So, I’m just gonna miss a couple Fridays, unfortunately. But that’s okay, because I don’t even know what will come after telos. So, when we’re talking about this telos, this final cause, that’s what matters the most, right? It’s the thing that matters the most. It’s all about prioritization. It allows you to prioritize things. Things are out of order if you don’t know what the end result is supposed to look like. And the problem is, you always have a telos. Whenever you’re doing anything, it’s there. And, uh, as Father Eric summed up, well, a telos comes first in intent, and last in action. And it goes to Jordan Peterson’s deep point. What are you up to? Do you know what you’re up to? Because sometimes you don’t. That’s when the telos has you. So, it isn’t some magic bullet, right? It can fool us. When we point at it without knowing it, right? When we’re possessed by it, we bend our view of reality. If you think that words are violence, you have started from a telos and reasoned backwards from there. I can state that axiomatically. It’s a deep confusion to start from words are violence. Because now all speech is potentially dangerous. And not just dangerous, but deadly, because violence can result in death. Can words cause death? They can influence it. People can get you pretty upset and either drive you to murder or suicide, which is a special brand of murder. And we have to be careful because if there’s something you cannot manifest. So, there’s a goal, a telos, a purpose that you have, a reason for your action. It’s not a valid telos unless it can be manifest. Because the telos starts in your imagination. It starts with a potential and your engagement in that potential. But it must end in the world outside of your head. There’s a difference between goodness that conforms, say, to a standard and good as in being is good. Good as in conforms is good versus bad. The confirmation is 100%. It’s good. The confirmation is 2%. It’s bad. Versus good as being the opposite of which is evil. That’s where telos is. Now you can have a telos to make a good thing. But you can have a telos to make a good thing as measured by a standard. That’s not a problem. But your telos is to make the thing or to manifest the thing. And your statement of goodness is a measurement, a quantity, whereas good and evil is a quality. So, the way you can spot a telos that is not for the good is you can look at what you’re dealing with. Are you dealing with what is around you at the moment? Are you concerned about the specific manifestation? Or are you looking towards the future? Are you looking up at an ideal? And we need telos because we live in a field of potential. That’s why we need it. We need a way to navigate the manifestations around us, emergence and emanation. And it impacts everything. It impacts computers. The reason why spellcheck doesn’t work as well anymore as it did five years ago is because they’re using language models for spellcheck. Now, spelling is a subset beneath language. And that gets into proper layers, levels of analysis. We’ll cover that someday. Telos is there for sure, right? But if you’re using a language model to figure out my spelling, you’re probably ignoring the number one cause of spelling errors, which is mistypes. You’re not paying attention to which keys are closer to which keys and therefore which are more likely to be depressed by accident. And you’re trying to project it in the future because this is a language model. Well, what’s this person trying to say? Well, if I made a typo and you were trying to figure out what I was saying from the typo and then working backwards, you can come up with all kinds of interesting typos that would never occur to you if you’re using a simple stochastic model based around the keyboard. If you’re looking at something from a computer perspective and you’re saying, well, what I really want to do is do these calculations very, very quickly and display them. You can display them so fast no one can read them. What good is the display? Because you’re aimed at fast, you’re not aimed at useful or useful for the operator. Where does telos come from? It comes from agents, from persons, not computers. Computers are scientific. Science is without a telos. It doesn’t have one. It presumes that one already exists. It is within the frame of a telos. It is not the frame of the telos. There is no objective material reality for science to operate within. It has to operate within our agentic telos. And then it can serve us, not the other way around. Assuming a telos or a final cause or like a destination and end result, a goal, and then working backwards is a very common thing that you see all the time. It takes very well known forms, usually a bunch of abstractions like be a good person without explaining or defining what that is in the context in which it’s used. Effective altruism. Okay, I don’t know if I agree or not. What are you defining as effective and what are you defining as altruism? Is it altruism to end someone’s suffering by killing them? And then what are you defining suffering as? Well, they’re suffering because they’ll never be smart enough to understand particle physics. There are people that think like that. That’s not an example I pulled out of nowhere. You’re working backwards from this idea that you already have predefined in your head about what’s good for others. You can be a good person by being effectively altruistic. Maybe, but that’s not clear. It’s one of the problems with telos. You’ve already presumed to telos and then you’re working your way backwards to it. You’re saying, well, the only reason why Elon Musk would buy Twitter is to make money. Really? And therefore he’s buying Twitter to make money. Okay. Maybe. Do businessmen only buy businesses to make money? Because most businesses fail. If they do, they’re all terrible and they should all be fired because 95% of businesses fail almost immediately. I mean, if that’s the reason that you’re doing something, you should not get into business ever. No one should. The risk is too high. Of course, that’s not the reason. You’re looking at the world backwards. You’re assuming the economic frame as the goal of a person that you don’t even know. And maybe that would be your goal. Fair enough. Maybe you’re that shallow. I have no idea. Or you’re looking at political power as their goal and then working backwards from why they got there or how they got there, what they did to get there, given that their goal was power. What if you’re wrong about their goal? What if their telos wasn’t power? Probably misapprehended a bunch of stuff. Procedures get in the way of telos. If a goal is to be safe or not get sued, then it isn’t well-being of your patient. You need to know what procedures are static, closed, contained, and presumptive of static, closed, and unchanged telos. Not getting sued or being safe is a closed system. And it only works within well-defined parameters, but they’re all outside of your control, every single one of them. Following procedures to make sure that happens just takes out all the quality. Procedural things are static and unchanging. They involve a direct, linear, one-to-one relationship. Or maybe several of them, but they’re one-to-one relationships. It’s not the world we live in. We live in a vast world full of potential, full of all kinds of connections where you pull one string and seven things move unexpectedly. That’s why telos is important. You’ve got to make sure the one thing that you think can move from the string, A, can move from the string, B, is worth moving, given that a bunch of things you don’t know about are also going to move. Materialists, those people who think it’s material first that moves the world and not telos, which is in potential. They focus on telos around measurement, right? Not the highest, not virtues and values, right? They’re provided with an excuse for thinking everything’s okay because what they measure is fine. But quality matters most, not just more. It matters most. The quality of your care of your patient, if you’re a doctor, matters more than you not getting sued. Can’t prevent from getting sued, no matter how good the care is. It’s just it’s a variable you don’t control because people are crazy. That’s why you have to focus on that the most because there’s going to be a bunch of side effects anyway. That’s definitely going to happen. But how do we deal with quality? Virtues, values, the forms, or better yet the idos, better word, hierarchy, the highest. That is proper telos. Proper goal, proper reason, not reasoning, reason. And the reason why the materialism fails is because measurements lack. You can’t measure something until after it’s happened. And you can’t measure it in relation to the past until after it’s happened. So you never know when you’re at the bottom until after you’ve bounced off of it. You don’t notice the bad actions of today for years or decades or generations sometimes. That’s why looking to potential, looking to the future, understanding the priority of what you’re doing today is so important. And you have to manage it because you can’t always pick the infinite future for the immediate present. You don’t have that option. As things get further out in time, they get more fuzzy. And that’s what you’re measuring risk-wise in your head anyway. Nassim Taleb talks about this in his books wonderfully. He talks about we make decisions based on risk. Well, how do you assess risk? Well, you have to know what your goal is. If your goal in investing in the stock market is to make money, you’re screwed. The only goal you need in investment of any kind, but especially the stock market, is not to lose all your money. Because the minute you lose all your money, you go to zero. As Peterson says, zero is a funny number. Yeah, you hit zero, you’re done. Taleb does a wonderful job of laying this out. You have to not lose all your money. The making money will happen, as it turns out. But when your tell-off is wrong, when you’re looking at the wrong thing, when you’re going for the wrong end result, the odds that you’ll succeed go down. They don’t go to zero, but anyone can get lucky. Aiming at the higher, at the thing that’s highest, prevents some of the bad effects down the road by avoiding them entirely. Looking up means looking into an infinite future. Time re-enchants when you look up. It becomes an issue. It becomes something you can really take seriously. Now you can decide between comfort now and comfort later. You cannot do that if you’re too focused on the present, or if you’re too focused on the material, because the material is the manifest, and once the manifest has manifested, now you are a slave to it. The way we control what manifests is with the T-loss. That’s how it all happens. Is it perfect control? No. But it’s still your best bet. Can we do without T-loss? Can we just ignore it? Can we ignore time? Or do we always have to have a T-loss? And when it’s quantity and measurement and material, we lose the ability to discern, because we are just believing measurements rather than our intuition. And measurements are useful, and measurements are required, but if you rely only on measurement, you ignore your intuition. And your intuition is the thing that tells you when something’s not right. Well, if something’s not right, is your measurement going to tell you that? Or is your measurement just going to report right? That’s a good question. So what happens when quantity comes first and you still have a T-loss? Now you need to look down and accept some belief that you aren’t engaging with. You are submitted to some measure which someone else came up with or gave to you, and you never rationalized. You never even noticed it. Now what? That isn’t good, because it wasn’t aimed at the good to begin with. That doesn’t mean you can’t adopt somebody else’s T-loss. You sure can, but you better know that’s what you’re doing. You don’t want to be looking down. You want to at least believe in the idyllic vision of that other person. And that’s the quality of a good leader. It’s not the quality of leadership, because leadership can’t be encompassed in one person, but… …quality of a good leader. And the problem is we have enough quantity to save everything. We have enough food to feed everyone. We have enough water to make sure everyone has enough water. So we can save everything, but we don’t have enough will to save the important stuff. What’s important? What’s your T-loss? You need the will to do that. That’s where your will is aimed. It’s aimed at your T-loss. If you’re doing something, there was a will behind it. Yours. Do you know where that will was aimed? Do you know what you were after? Do you know what you’re up to? Are you sure? Did the results match? I mean, the wonderful thing about pragmatism, did the results match? Because if they didn’t, maybe you didn’t know what you were up to. Maybe you got hijacked in your T-loss. Maybe you found yourself out of work because you weren’t paying attention to the fact that you were angry and resentful at everybody you worked with, and so you chucked yourself out of the job. I’ve seen people do that. I’ve seen them do it with four or five jobs in a row. They can’t start at the bottom and work their way up. They’re focused on the now. Well, I’m worth a certain amount of money right now. Okay, maybe. Does anybody know that? If they don’t, you’re going to have to prove it. Whether it’s true or not is not relevant. You still got to prove the truth. If you’re not willing to wait that out, you’re going to end up with a problem. When you give something attention by treating it as a T-loss, you can create problems that otherwise would not exist because we create reality. Not entirely. We co-manifest it, really. But if you act like everyone hates you or no one loves you or everyone’s just using you to some ends, then you’re going to create a hell for yourself unnecessarily. It’s a problem that otherwise would not exist. If you act like economics is the most important thing, you could look at something like journalism. And I have a video on the fall of the fourth estate. And you could say, well, the problem with journalism is that internet technology came along and it became all about the clicks. And I would say, how’s that possible? And you could point at all the online journalism that’s bad. And I would say, sure, that’s all the online journalism. What about the journalism that never got paid by clicks ever? Is that good? Because that’s the journalism that fell. The new journalism didn’t fall. It never ascended. You create a problem that doesn’t exist when you act as if the world is in some way that it’s not. If you think it’s a white patriarchy, then yeah, you’ve created a problem. Can you fix it? Can you manifest the solution? Maybe it’s a bad tell-us. And how much attention should we spend on temporary things like current events? Are they part of your tell-us? Are they related to your job, to your daily life? Is your tell-us something that will last? Because your time, energy, and attention is important. And it’s limited. It has a priority. Tell-us helps you direct that towards your priorities, whatever those priorities may be. You need to spend your time, energy, and attention on that which lasts the most and is the highest, the most important. And again, this isn’t a solution. I’m just trying to point your attention to something and give you the contrast and the nuance to engage with tell-us because it’s driving you, whether you realize it or not. And the problem is that with a tell-us, you can justify anything logically. You can use logic, reason, and rationality to justify any kind of behavior. It just depends on your goal, on your tell-us. You see this in Star Trek Next Chapter. Data is good logic and Lore, his brother, is bad logic. What makes them different is one loves humanity and the other one doesn’t. He’s jealous of it. Have you seen that play out in the show? Have you seen that play out anywhere recently in the news on the streets with your friends? I have. I like what Jordan Peterson said about, you know, make friends with people who want the best for you. Someone’s upset because you live somewhere that they deem has better weather or didn’t have lockdowns for three years or doesn’t try to take away your guns or whatever it is. And people see that. Maybe they don’t even want that, but they’re jealous that you have it. That happens. And their logic justifies their jealousy, I’m sure of that. It’s a problem. You can use the tell-us to justify anything. Is it good to see people suffer? Is it good to let them suffer? Maybe we should kill them and then they won’t suffer. What if they’re depressed? This isn’t hypothetical. This isn’t theoretical. This is Canada right now. They’ll put you to death for saying you’re depressed and agreeing that, you know, maybe you shouldn’t be around because you’re just suffering too much. Right now. And who knows where that ends? Probably nowhere until the deaths stack up and somebody actually does something about it and says, this is not the tell-us that we want to have within our country. What makes a country? Commonality? Shared tell-us maybe? Maybe. Look, you have to respond to based on the tell-us. You have to respond based on the tell-us long before material manifests. Because it’s about the potential. It’s about the future. It’s about the ideal, the idos, the form. When you fail to do that, you are a slave to the material. You’re captured. You’re trapped. You’re stuck in the materialism. You’re acting as an NPC, a robot, a slave. You’re effectively a zombie. Why? Because you are reacting and responding to the material manifestation which was created by a tell-us. Somebody else’s, not yours. Because it’s already manifest. You can whine about the businessman that made a million dollars. You say, look what he does all day. Nothing. What if he started the business? What if he worked 100 hours a week, which is not uncommon for small business owners, by the way, and built that business from scratch and suffered for five or 10 years? What if he started the business? What if he worked 100 hours a week, which is not uncommon for small business owners, by the way, and built that business from scratch and suffered for five or 10 or 15 years before it became a success? Because that’s the norm. Did you see any of that? Or have you collapsed time and looked at it and said, I know what his tell-us was. It was to make money. And look at all the money he’s making. I must be right. That’s the backwards reverse tell-us trick again. He has all this money, so that must have been his goal. Really? So he started a business, which usually costs money. Doesn’t make any sense to spend your money in that case, but whatever. And he suffered for however many years to build the business, not knowing it was going to make money because nobody ever knows that they’re starting a business, they’re going to make money. That just doesn’t ever happen. You’re hopeful, but some people get lucky and they start three businesses and only one is ever a success, usually the first one. Some people just persevere at the same thing for 10 or 12 or 15 years. But if you’re looking at a business that’s manifest, you have to be an employee. You didn’t build it. So to some extent, yeah, you’re a slave to whoever owns it. Sure. That’s because you didn’t build your own thing. Nothing wrong with that. It’s easier. It’s a lot easier. I’ve done. I’ve built businesses. I’ve built 10. Sometimes I had co-founders, sometimes I didn’t. Only one of them has really ever worked out, by the way. Didn’t make me a million dollars. Or hasn’t yet. It could, I suppose, someday. You never know. But if you’re not building it, if you’re not taking responsibility for it, if it’s not yours, if you don’t own it, you are in some sense an NPC or a slave or a robot, to somebody else’s tell us. And to some extent, you kind of have to be because there were some things here before you. You can whine about the conditions, like I can say, oh, they ruined the food supply on me with this monoculture and this pasteurized milk. And now I have an immune disease, which I do. I don’t know what caused it, though, but fairly sure that, you know, some of the conditions of the food and all that had something to do with it. But I was born into that. I didn’t have a choice about that. That wasn’t something I can take responsibility for. I didn’t feed myself my first few years of life. And when I did, quote, feed myself, that food was brought into the house by somebody else because I wasn’t shopping for myself until, you know, quite a while. I don’t think I was going to grocery stores until I was like 14. It’s a long time to have whatever it is you’re engaged with ruined. And then did you have the information to know about the monocultures? Not when I was 14, I didn’t. But, I mean, it can be worse. Like, you could be a literal zombie. You could run around the world stuck in NPC mode, believing that economics runs the world. And the reason why journalism has failed is because of clicks. Or the reason why Twitter is so terrible is because, you know, a few elite people control it. Or believing that the algorithm is running your life. If you believe the algorithm is running your life, I’ve got news for you. Now you’re right. I control all my algorithms. Not perfectly, but pretty close on a couple platforms. Those algorithms need you. They feed off of you. You are their master to some extent. And when you’re not their master, you disengage. There’s no excuse. You can’t use that as an excuse. Just don’t use it. Everyone else is. No. Everyone else is not. And so what? If everyone else jumps off a bridge, are you going to jump off the bridge? Would you? A lemming? I know, I know about the lemming thing. Still, one of the best video games of all time is Lemmings. My former roommate, by the way, wrote the Lemmings Hint Book, or co-authored it with a very good friend of mine. Who also authored the original Mac version of, I think it was Lemmings 2? But it might have been Lemmings. Anyway, the reason why you can speed up in Lemmings is his fault. Just to let you know. I remember selling Lemmings at the Boston Museum of Science. They did an expo for children’s education that I was at. Because I knew that the people were heading up Psygnosis North America, because my friends worked there. They let me come in and help, and then fed me afterwards. Nice meal. Didn’t make any money, but you know, that was okay. I spent a good four hours at the museum hawking lemmings to people who wanted a good video game to use for learning. Which it was. It was great. I really enjoyed that game. But you’re not a lemming. You’re not a zombie. Unless you want to be. You do that to yourself. Are you entirely under control of all the things you’re NPCs? No, you’re not. But you are in some control. And you can take responsibility for that. You can say, you know what? I am an agent that can manifest a T-Loss. I have to pay attention to that T-Loss. I have to pay attention to that T-Loss. Otherwise my time, energy, and attention will be hijacked, stolen, and given over to some force or agency or spirit or person or system that I do not choose. In a way that I do not choose. It’s up to you. But it is up to you. I’m not going to be a lemming. I’m not going to be a zombie. I’m not going to be a zombie. I’m not going to be a zombie. But it is up to you. Are NPCs real? Yes. Are robots real? Yes. Are zombies real? Yes. I saw zombies in Edinburgh, Scotland. No question about it. Straight across. They’re like straight across a beautiful city. Gorgeous city. Absolutely mind-blowingly gorgeous. And they’re looking straight across at all the other people following along. It was terrifying. You could feel, well I could feel, I could feel them chewing on the bones of their ancestors. You have to take responsibility for the fact that you’re an agent in this world and that you have agency. You have to pay attention to that T-Loss. And you have to use it to your advantage or somebody else will use it to theirs. They will steal your time, energy and attention. They will suck your soul dry. If you let them. It’s up to you. Look, maybe the cost of manipulating your own algorithms is very high. Maybe the cost of manipulating your algorithms means an extra four hours a week for three months. And maybe that’s too high to use Twitter. Don’t use Twitter. Problem solved. You don’t like the trade-off? Don’t make the trade-off. I had a goal for Twitter. My Twitter feed is awesome. More than anything, I’m going to make Twitter feed. My Twitter feed is awesome. More than half of it is pretty pictures of exotic places or nature or whatever. And that’s a good half of what I post. Flowers, turtles, birds, plants, whatever. It’s reciprocal. You feed the algorithm, the algorithm feeds you. Is it going to give you a perfect consistent? No. But I don’t want perfect and consistent, so it’s all good. With the telos you have responsibility. You can properly take your role as a responsible agent. Good agency is wrapped up in telos. The difference is in the relationship. What is the point? Where is it pointing? That changes the relationship. The important thing to pay attention to is are you doing your job for money? Or are you doing your job to do good work, which also happens to make you money? People who do better work get paid more for the same work. Why? Because the work doesn’t matter. The quality of the work, product matters. This is what Karl Marx didn’t understand because he’s an idiot. Never talks about the difference between what if you have two workers and one finishes first and the other one finishes second. What if one finishes in half time? There are people like that. It’s a Pareto curve, baby. Technically a couch distribution. Read to the left. What that means is that there are workers who are really, really, really slow and really, really, really fast. When I was at UPS, I was really, really, really, really, really, really, really fast. I was so fast. I was so good at unloading trucks and I was a decent sorter too. I wasn’t the fastest sorter, but I was up there. But when I was unloading trucks, I was so good they let me do two things. I was up there. But when I was unloading trucks, I was so good they let me do two shifts. They told me you can work overtime any time you want. You do not have to ask for permission. Everybody else, literally, everybody else that worked at that plant had to ask for permission except me. When I was doing my call center job, everybody else had to ask for permission to do overtime, except me. You just work the overtime and mark your time card. It’s already approved. What? What? Yeah, I unloaded trucks better than anybody else. Yeah, I took more phone calls than anybody else. Not on average. Not on average. I always took more phone calls than anybody else. Always. I always unloaded the LL Bean truck faster than anybody else. Sometimes that was my detriment because the sorters would get pissed. But the problem with the unload, it relies on the sorters and the sorters get overloaded. Especially if the management doesn’t quite get the flow right or the flow changes. It’s not always management’s fault. Best managed company I ever worked for. Worst thing that ever happened to me in life. My first job was UPS. Holy crap, did that screw me up. I thought, well, decently managed company. Isn’t that bad? There’s a problem here, a problem there. But, you know, it’s not bad. I get out into the world. I’ve never worked for or heard of a company as well managed as UPS since. Ever. Ever. Not FedEx. I’ve talked to people who work at FedEx. Not as well managed. Not as well run. I’ve never even come close. UPS was really well-reliable because you can’t lie about boxes. What is the telos of UPS? We need to get the package from here to there, period, intact. That’s it. That’s literally all they cared about. Now, you could go to UPS and you could say, they don’t care about the people. And I will say, the people was not their primary concern. That is true. Not that they didn’t care about their people because they did. They were very nice, actually. The people that didn’t get treated, quote, well by management deserved every single thing they got. With one exception, but that was around a manager and not around anything else because there are bad people in the system. Their telos was to get the packages. So we’ll just take my plant, which was, I think, the third largest in the country at the time or the third largest in the world, actually. Their purpose is to get the packages in from the load, get them up, sort it out to the high picks, down to the sorters, sorted, loaded into other trucks. And then those trucks need to get on their way. And ma’am, when you were a sorter and you sort by your 12, is it 12? Might have been more than 12. Wow. Technically, it’s more than 12. It’s at least 14 different places to put a package. So you got packages coming on a belt. You’re going to move them to the right place. You’re going to read the zip code and put them in the right place. Not an easy job. It took a long time for me to learn sorting. It memorized quite a few zip codes and exceptions and all kinds of things. If you didn’t do that right, they’d take you off the sort line. And that was the end of your sorting. And then you were back down to lower pay in some cases. Did they care whether or not I made the amount of money I wanted to make? No. They cared about the packages. It’s their job. That’s their tell-us. That’s what they’re supposed to do. They’re not supposed to privilege you and your screw-ups over their customer satisfaction. They’re just not supposed to. Your tell-us should be to get better at all things. Reclaim your responsibility, your agency. Pay attention to your tell-us. That way you know where to prioritize and how to prioritize and where you fit. I didn’t build UPS. I didn’t make that company. I was perfectly happy there being an unloader. It was fantastic. Unload the trucks. And then when I was a sorter, perfectly happy to be a sorter. Loved sorting. Very challenging job. Very demanding. Actually, this thing that made me quit. Well, the evil lying manager made me quit. But different story. What are you paying attention to? Are you paying attention to the end result or are you paying attention to something higher? I’m not saying ignore the end results. I’m saying what are you paying attention to? What are you more concerned with? Maybe doing the good thing for your four-year-old child is to spank him or her. I don’t know. But it could be. Is your tell-us to make sure your child’s happy every moment of its life and has no suffering or no discomfort? That’s probably going to come back to haunt you later. Take responsibility. That’s what the tell-us is. That’s what the tell-us allows you to do. And you see these attempts to get around tell-us. Or at least some people do. And then I have to think about them and put them in my monologue somehow. Jessie. Something like telepathy. Is wanting the tell-us of communication to manifest without an action. You’re fantasy. I want to be able to communicate information to you by thinking it. Why? Because I don’t want to take responsibility for trying to communicate something to you using all the complexities of the language. Whether that be the spoken language, the body language, the tonal language, my presence. Having to do something to communicate with you, whether that’s pick up the phone or get online and fire up a Zoom meeting or a Discord call or drive to your house. Go find you where you’re working in the field and talk to you. Risk bothering you. I’d rather have telepathy. Wouldn’t we all? You want to have telepathy? I want a pony. It’s disappointment all around. None of us are getting what we want. Sucks. I mentioned this before, but it bears recapitulation here. You know what doesn’t work without tell-us? Logic, reason and rationality. Tell-us comes first. Nothing works without it. It’s logical, reasonable and rational. It’s logical, reasonable and rational. It’s logical, reasonable and rational. It’s logical, reasonable and rational. It’s logical, reasonable and rational to kill somebody if they’re suffering. We should do that with horses. Horse gets a broken leg, you shoot it. I’m not a personal fan. I love animals, but you know, that used to happen. It’s a hard decision to make. You can justify all kinds of things. You could kill millions of people on that thesis. No problem. Why? Because you’re a bad tell-us. How do I know? Because you’re killing people. It’s not that hard. Do I want to wait for the manifestation? No, but sometimes you have to. But if you wait for manifestations, and hopefully if you catch them early enough, you can avoid all the bad things. It’s when you ignore the manifestations, and you go, Oh yeah, you know what? I’m just tweaking the system. Those first few hundred dead people, man, man, don’t worry about that. That was just an anomaly. They were outliers. It’ll be fine. It’ll be fine. You know, 300 million people later. The tell-us happens at the frames that you’re using with the world or the levels. Right. And again, I mean, someday I’ll talk about say proper ways to understand layers of analysis. You can imagine, and the tell-us scales, right. But as you scale it, you’re changing the time frame usually. This is one of the deep points that I think is really underrated that Peugeot talks about with the spirit of a city. In his talk with John Brevecky, which is very good about this topic, where he was like, a city communicates with you. And John was like, no, it doesn’t. And he was like, yeah, the city can send you a letter. Right. It’s sort of like a gotcha moment. But John not being deterred by simple gotcha moments. And John was like, no, it doesn’t. And he was like, yeah, the city can send you a letter. Right. And John not being deterred by simple gotcha moments where you’re definitely wrong. Continued, well, it’s not conscious because it takes too long. It’s like, what? So you’re saying a larger brain shouldn’t take longer to make the same calculation as a smaller brain? Really? Is that your materialist, physicalist, reductionist way of thinking about the world? Because that’s wrong. For sure. It’s not what you’d expect in materialism at all. You’d expect the opposite. Expect exactly what Peugeot described. But when you’re going through multiple agents, there’s that whole game of telephone. Right. Yeah, things are going to change. More opportunities to get messed up. But also you can’t have a city without multiple agents by definition. So trade-offs. The telos of the city is not to save every single person in the city. It’s to save the most people in the city. And maybe you’re not in the most category. That sucks. And the telos of the country, the telos of the city may be at odds. And your telos may be at odds. Your telos should be to protect your family, for example. And maybe the city can’t do that because it’s gotten rid of all its police. Because it had a bad telos to get rid of police, for whatever reason. Or maybe it had a telos of nicer policing. And in the process of implementing that telos, it did a bunch of things. It caused a bunch of police to say, I ain’t sticking around for this. I’m out of here. It’s not a one-to-one relationship. Like these things can manifest all kinds of different ways without anybody suspecting that that’s going to happen. They’re second-order effects. We call them unintended consequences. Because we like to be fancy with the language. Just what happens when you do something is you change a bunch of things that you know nothing about. What happens when you do something? Sorry. Bad news. You can’t quite predict it. Not all of it. Not well. And every once in a while somebody comes along and does that once for one thing. Great. You got lucky. Fantastic. I’ll take a note of that. Everyone gets lucky sometimes. We’re all lucky to be alive. You can believe in someone else’s telos or the telos of a country or of your state or of your community or of your church without understanding it. What do you think happened after the Weimar Republic? Oh, look at that guy. He’s saying some pretty interesting things. I don’t quite understand all the information he’s talking about. He’s saying some pretty interesting things. I don’t quite understand all the implications of what he’s saying. Maybe neither did he, by the way. Although he probably did. But I don’t know that. Doesn’t excuse any. I don’t care if you know or not. I’m a pragmatist. It makes no matter to me. Are you incompetent? Or are you evil? Or are you just stupid? I don’t care. I’m looking at results, kid. Hate to break it to you. I don’t know your heart. You could put in diversity, inclusion and equity. You could put in diversity, inclusion and equity. Yes, I’m using the original ordering. Yes, I’m using the original ordering. And the effects are terrible. Because the first and second order effects are awful. Because the first and second order effects are awful. Is everybody who jumps on board with diversity, inclusion and equity a bad person? No, some are just stupid. Some are just incompetent. Some of them just trusted the wrong people. Some of them just got fooled by a soothsayer. See, last week live streamed for soothsaying. Fair enough. We can’t know the whole world. Everybody knows there’s a better way to educate people. Everybody knows there’s a better way to educate people. So if somebody comes along with a different way to educate, how do you know it’s not better? So if somebody comes along with a different way to educate, how do you know it’s not better? There’s the problem. What’s to tell us? What’s to tell us? If you place the tell us incorrectly, you get a bad impact. Because you can force a first order effect and get a bad set of second order effects. What makes you a good person or a bad person? What identifies you in your community? Tell us. I’m a good accountant. I’m going to do the accounting for my church. Okay. Maybe you don’t even do accounting in your day job. Maybe you took accounting in school and you really enjoyed the order that it brought. There’s a beauty in order. If you’re a good person, you’re a good person. If you’re a good person, you’re a good person. Maybe you’re in charge in your family. Maybe you’re the one your family looks to to fix things when they screw them all up. Maybe. Maybe. That’s your identity within the family. You don’t have one identity though. You get lots of identities. Because you exist in lots of places at once. And sometimes those things conflict. That’s ethics. What is your tell us? I talked about this in my video on navigating patterns. With Sam Harris’ highest failure. He didn’t care about the dead children in the basement. He cared about knowledge. He cared about the sacred church institution of knowledge called university. That Trump soiled with his terrible behavior. Everyone got their money back by the way. You know that greedy Trump guy? Yeah, he just ate the cost of that whole experiment. It went poorly for him. And he felt bad and paid everybody back. Yeah, that’s terrible. Let me tell you about colleges I know in Boston. That are ripping people off knowingly. I don’t think I’ll name them. I might have known people who were there at the time and knew what was going on. And told me about them though. Maybe. You think Trump University is bad? Have I got news for you. Oh, sweet innocent child. Oh, sweet innocent child. I know a lot about education and what goes on in that racket. And some of it is a racket. Not all of it. And then you see Constantin Kitchen. Same interview. The same like five minute segment or whatever it was. He doesn’t care about knowledge. He cares about political corruption. That’s his telos. He still doesn’t care about dead kids in the basement. Is he a good person? Sam Harris a good person? I don’t know. If you don’t care about dead kids in a basement when you know whose basement it is, are you a good person? If you’d rather worry about something else first, what should your priorities be? Gee, I don’t know Mark. What’s that? Your telos. That’s how it sets your priorities. That’s how it works. You have to know what your goal is. You have to know what you’re going after. You have to understand these things. Or you will be an NPC. You will be a robot. You will turn into a zombie. No, really. You will. Take responsibility for your telos. Know where you’re going. You need to have a telos to navigate. You’re not going to be able to navigate the world if you don’t have a goal, a destination, a reason. You can’t navigate without a telos. Somebody will navigate you if you don’t take responsibility for navigating yourself. You don’t want to be an NPC? Pay attention to your telos. And pay attention to the telos around you. How do you know them? You can look at results. Don’t have to be big results. You know, do you have to wait until somebody shoots you to know that they’re going to shoot somebody? No, you don’t. You can see how people treat other people and go, you know what? Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not in 10 years. But eventually that person is going to do something bad. Because they’re unable to control their temper. Or there’s an agenda that they’re working towards that they themselves don’t understand or won’t admit. These things happen. They’re real. You can tell by how somebody treats the server at the restaurant whether or not they’re a good person. That’s not a joke or a trick. That’s just simple observation. How many people are fooled by people being nice to them in the moment but being crappy to everyone else? That’s on you. You didn’t pay attention. You’re going to watch that. Is someone listening to you or are they listening to themselves? Or are they listening to something in their head that they think is you? You can tell these things. You have to use your intuition. Not just your rationality. You need both. And sometimes you’re going to be in conflict and sometimes you’re going to need to make what seems like an arbitrary decision. Welcome to the world into which you were born. Along with the rest of us, stop, act, and special. And with that, I invite anybody who wishes to join. I will pin this link on navigating patterns. And I will have some San Pell because it’s about that time. That’s much better. I like eating. I like eating. I like eating. I like eating. I like eating. I like eating. I like Ethan’s Ethan’s comment here is pretty it’s pretty good. I did see it earlier, but. Procedures evil confirmed. Yes. Yes. First and final cause first and intent final in inaction. I’m glad Ethan that you love my root beer. Very important root beer is very important to me. There used to be a root beer company called. Was it Mystic Seaport or just Mystic? I forget it was the Mystic Seaport beverage company or something and they went out of business, but they made really good root beer. We’re over in Connecticut. One day my best friend was like, we’re going down to Mystic Connecticut. I’m like, oh, Mystic Connecticut. Connecticut seashore is gorgeous. I think a big, big, long southern facing seashore, right? Tiny state, tiny state here in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut. It’s like 10 minutes away. New England is tiny. Until you get to Maine. Maine is Maine is a good size state. Driving down and I said, don’t come back without Mystic Seaport root beer. And they had closed. He was like, I swear we looked everywhere. Couldn’t find it. And I was like, you know, you’re dead to me now because of course I would say something stupid like that. That’s kind of what I do. Ethan, identity must be placed in T. lov’s not a measurement. Exactly. Well, yeah, measuring in relation to what? Right. The whole gauge theory thing becomes a problem. What did you measure in relation to again? You know, the metric system. That’s great. Does that tell me how heavy anything is? No. The imperial system corresponds to weight within the range of human ability. So a lot of people, in fact, everybody I know of or or have read about who comes from from the metric system into the imperial system goes, oh, this is actually much more relatable to phenomenological experience. Yeah, it’s designed on that. The telos was phenomenology and not science. When you tell us the science, you have a crappy thing like metric system, which, by the way, is crappy. Anselman journalists are bought to produce propaganda and distractions. Well, I have a video on that. Anselman, you balance acceptance of the pros and cons dealt by Providence and use your agency to exploit your limited potential. Yeah, that sounds reasonable. Uh oh. Uh oh, we have we have pirate partners attacking the stream. Hey, Sally. Oh, she’s got the Sam Pell. She’s got the Sam Pell. She’s in. Honey, show me the Sam Pell on screen and you’re right in the stream. That’s it. That’s all it takes. How are you doing? I am. I caught part of the monologue. You probably caught most of the monologue. You just didn’t catch it in monologue form. Well, that’s true. I really like the. And look, it’s look, right? There’s such a it’s such a great example of hyperlogic in that duality. I also I’m just biased to the next generation. So you like the cutest board or do you like a lower little I’m trying to say lower. Thank you. No problem. I didn’t know which Anselman. I like a slice of lemming in my teeth. I do have my my Table Rock Tea Company tea here, my marathon blend. I do not have a slice of lemon because I don’t have any lemons. But someone has lemon. That would be more delicious. A slice of lemons. It would be meatier. That game is so awesome. I don’t even know anything about it. Oh, Mills says this is very good. Well, I’m very glad to hear that, Mills. I’m glad you like it. Nathaniel said, Oh, this is reminding me of the eightfold path minus the Buddhist trap of staying on the treadmill. I see. Well, it’s a lot like that. Lore and data. Like if you just think about the words lore and data, they both refer to information. Yep. Exactly. Different types. I hadn’t thought about. Well, now you did. But that’s the purpose of these things. Mills, freedom and responsibility are inseparable. Yes. Well, that’s that’s true. Hanselman. People often assume a greater understanding in their listeners than they actually have. Yes. And so are less explicit in communication. Yep. Only to then be aware of being misunderstood. That happens a lot more lately. I’ve got my theories. Jesse claimed 10 minutes. So 25. Do we have an over under on the Jesse? I mean, we got to do we got to get a betting pool going. That that would be the definite take home prize. Yeah. So what else did you catch other than my wonderful Star Trek next? That’s that’s that’s an homage to you, ma’am. So that’s I know you like that show. And when I can because you mentioned it, it comes up in my brain and then I can make the connections. I can’t make connections by myself. So I am just like when we’re trying to think about T-Los is because it is not a commonplace word. I’m still into the you need temples. And the interesting thing about that little part. Thank you version, because you got two instruments of information and they have different T-Los is and that’s that’s fantastic. Maybe when we were trying to get out the T-Los notes, I could have asked for T-Los is in fiction. And maybe that would have been an easier given because T-Los is in fiction are already abstract. And so maybe not annoying as trying to get simple T-Los is in everyday life. Although I think we did a good job of that in the end. And now we did we did a fine job. Hold on. I want to adjust this. Nathaniel, can you say more on the point you made about how we create our reality? I am a muppet grasping as much as I can. Excellent. Welcome up. It’s a muppet. Yeah. See, on the one hand, this is the easiest thing to understand in the whole universe. And on the other hand, it’s terrifying. And it’s really hard for people because they want like we’re used to these complicated scientific ways. It’s the big bang. And when you get right back down to the gluons and you know, I’m sorry, it’s just not our string theory. Well, look, you’ve got these brains and they’re pumping into one or that cause a big bang. No, no, no, no. And under singularity. No, no, this is easy. There’s an ethereal realm. It’s the realm of platonic forms or Eidos. I think it’s a way better word. I think John, John, you’re right about that. Eidos is a better word. And then there’s the material realm, which is, you know, the stop, you know, like the Earth and the plants and, you know, and then there’s these muppets in the middle. And the muppets, they stand in between these two things. In other words, they have maybe not equal parts, maybe equal parts. I don’t think it’s equal. They have some parts ethereal and some parts material. And then what they do is they continue to knit that together to create reality. Now, on the one hand, this always frustrates me because this has to be patently obvious to everybody. And I think it’s a good thing to say to everybody, no, really, because every day you make decisions to do things. And once you make a decision to do something and you do it, all of the other things, it’s never just one other thing, all of the other things didn’t happen in reality, at least not in that order. And some things couldn’t ever have happened because things decay over time, right? And so if you miss a good sunset, you missed that sunset forever. If you didn’t miss the sunset, the reality is different, period, end of statement. Like it’s, and you’re doing that all the time. You’re literally doing that all the time. And so you can imagine that there’s a great deal of impact or influence and some level of control, a very small level, over how reality manifests. And the easiest way to understand this, it’s to scale up a bit, I think, into the science fiction realm, because I love science fiction. I love good science fiction anyway. You can imagine that it’s quite possible that within our grasp and technological capability, we can have exactly two choices for real. We can either take the planet and regulate whatever, or we can build a spaceship big enough to bring not only us, but enough of the planet with us to repopulate another planet. But we can’t do both. Which one’s real? Well, until you manifest it, neither. And so, you know, Schrödinger’s stupid cat is wrong. Although it does point out there are three states. The potential to do that is neither is real, because it’s still potential. When we do one of those things, we have created reality and booted out the other version of reality. So we knit together, if you want to put it in Christian terms, heaven and earth. That’s how crazy Christians might talk about it. So that’s what I mean. It’s not our reality that we’re creating. It’s reality. And we need to be common enough in our creation of that reality. Otherwise, everything goes to chaos. That’s what chaos is. Everyone going in different directions. And Manuel and I did a stream earlier this week. Was that Thursday? And wonderful stream. And we’re pointing at this Michael Segrou video on YouTube. And it’s a couple of years old. But actually those lectures, I think, were done in the 90s or something and recorded and only recently posted. And he points out that the postmoderns know full well what they’re doing. And they laugh when you catch them on, oh, you want everybody to have their own reality. And no one can talk because they all have their own language, too. Because language is the thing that’s constraining you to not think your own thoughts. To some extent, that is actually correct. But also, who cares? We still can’t do anything or we can’t do enough by ourselves. Right. We get Anselman. I wrote a reflection on that once only time. Interesting. I like that. Nathaniel. It seems obvious on a micro level in my little world. I have trouble maybe thinking of relationship to the macro. Well, yeah, you can’t think of the relationship to the macro. You’re a muppet. I’m a muppet. We’re all muppets. We don’t know this stuff. I’m sorry. All of existence. Hold on. Let me make you big. There we go. First mover. Yes. Reflects, forms, energy, muppets. Yes. Grass, earth, matter. I love it. I see what you did there. I see that troll. They’re all looking both up and down. Yes. They’re pointing up and down. Yeah, I like the sun there too. No, that’s excellent. I don’t know if the symbolic language is making it more or less theoretical. But I’m just a terrible Baptist. I’m just a terrible Baptist. I’m just a terrible Baptist. So what would I know about images? There you go. Well, yeah. So the problem with scaling it up is we have to be doing our little pockets of reality manifestation in concert with one another to some degree in some way. Because. If everyone doesn’t agree to the macro T loss of build the ship to take the ship to the other side. And that’s a problem. How do you solve that problem? Boy, you better have some commonality. Right. Common sense is the sense making or senses that we have in common. But that’s not referring to. Our regular senses like smell and touch and, and whatnot. Right. It’s referring to our sense of tell us. So the question is, what was the difference between the expanse? The pirate stole it. The pirate stole the ship. And then they called it a diversity equity inclusion. I’m pretty sure that was what they called it. After the pirate stole the ship. Can confirm. Anselman. That was a standard iconic divine hand. I don’t know what you’re tracking about. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t. I got no idea. It was better. That’d be sun because that was the first thing that came into my mind. And I was like, nah, I’m gonna skip the telly tubby sun. Wanted it to have more authority. I don’t know. I, I, yeah, the telly tubby song is pretty good though. No, the sun, the sun is a baby. Oh, the baby. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. So you were going to use that whole telly tubby motif. I mean, it is the whole telly tubby motif is this motif because they just have a bunch of innocent children in the grass. With another innocent children in the sky above. And the food just miraculously comes out and the vacuum just miraculously vacuums. Oh, what’s playing in the background? The computer is going crazy. Stupid computer. So did you get to go over the difference between the, the waiting for heaven or waiting to go to heaven and bringing heaven to earth? Or are you skipping it intentionally? No, why would I talk about that? That’s the way you should do it. Never mind. I don’t talk about stuff like that. If I’m honest, I might not have a working definition of postmodern. Well, look at our stream from earlier that I did with Manuel. At least I’m terrible at expressing the dangers to anyone around me. Well, look, here’s a video on postmodernism that I did that was validated by Sugru’s video, which is much shorter and much better in many ways. But also, Anselman’s talking about the son of righteousness. Like, what is wrong with this guy? Crazy Christians are not trustworthy on my stream. They say weird things. Ignore the Christians. It’s all secular here. We’ll just go with Hearst. It’s fine. It’s all nice and secular. We’re not going to step in that hole. There’s a link to the Sugru video in the live stream. Maybe I’ll post the live stream next. Jesse’s allegedly here. So how would you do those for a good plumber and then a T-Los for a bad plumber as examples? Or maybe you’ve already done tendencies. The T-Los for the bad plumber might be trying to support his family. But the T-Los for the good plumber might be trying to save the world. As Jordan Peterson points out, plumbers have saved more lives than doctors. And air conditioning. Hello, hello. And air conditioning. And air conditioning. It just sounded like, and air conditioning. Yeah, we don’t realize the effect to which air conditioning, as Peterson points out, has changed the world. Oh, yeah. Plumbing and good air conditioning. Yeah, so in Charlotte, North Carolina, there is a Museum of the New South. Now, I must say, the museums down here are terrible. But I grew up in Boston where we have awesome museums. So, like, bad comparison. But we went to the Museum of the New South. My mother, my stepfather, and I a number of years ago, or obviously before she passed away. And our conclusion was that, in fact, the New South was just the old south with air conditioning. And that was the whole trick. That’s the New South. Because, you know, my house, I mean, look, it’s warm everywhere in the south. My house is literally 10 degrees cooler than the city that I’m closest to, than the capital city. And there are geographical microclimate reasons for that that I’m not going to get into. I don’t want to bore you with a bunch of meteorology that I actually know really well. But it’s hot down here. And without air conditioning, it’s unbearable. And people move slowly. And until you get down here, you don’t realize why. It’s like, because if you move too fast in the summer, you will die. I’m not joking. You will, you know, if I tried to be me when I was 20 down here, I’d be dead. I’d be dead. There’s no question about it. Because I was always moving as fast as possible. You cannot do that when it’s 103 out. You cannot. You will drop. Like, I don’t care how good I help you. And I only learned that at UPS because when I was at UPS, it was one day, I remember it well, it was one day where it was 97 degrees that day, which is pretty unusual in New England and Massachusetts. And it had been 97. And my shift was not the day shift. Day shift was the first shift outside of high school. I was a twice shift, which is an evening shift. So I got out of high school, I had some hours, and then I’d head off to work. So some of the trucks that they had for some reason had semi-transparent tops. So they were white plastic. They weren’t fully transparent, but they were white plastic. And they let in light. Now, these trucks in the Twilight shift, for the most part, were packed by companies. So there were lots of very regular well-packed boxes, no extra space in these trucks whatsoever. Unlike the other trucks that came in from other buildings, you fill up what you can fill up, and most of them were never full. And if you had a full truck, you’d have three half-full trucks or something. So these trucks were packed with boxes. So one day, I opened this thing. Now, I’m the unloader. I’m the unloader. I am the unloader. I’m just there. And I never sweat. Ever. Ever. Didn’t happen. I just didn’t sweat when I was young. I opened this door, and out of this truck comes 110-degree air. No word of a lie. And it just washes over me. You roll up, you open the thing, and you’re ready to jump in. And all this hot air just comes rolling out at me. And I’m like, what the hell just happened? So I’m like, all right, well, that was a little unexpected. Whatever. You know, whatever. It’s cool. So I dive in, and I start doing boxes. And the further I get into the truck, the hotter it gets. And I just kept slowing down and slowing down and slowing down. I’d take a break. I’d never take a break before ever unloading a truck. I always just open the truck, unload the truck, next truck. Nope. Had to take a break. Oh, yeah. It was bad. It was really bad. And that was the first time. And then I was sweating. And from then forward, I could sweat. But before that, I never sweat. It was the weirdest thing. You know, and if I had had a bad telos, I wouldn’t have jumped in it. I wouldn’t have jumped in it. You know? I remember listening to your subsection in the monologue about work and people that get convinced that everybody’s got it out for them and they deserve better. And then they make it true. And it’s like, man, we got to clip that because that is classic crisis that I’ve experienced personally. Like, although I don’t know if you can ever reach those people because they’re already convinced. Well, you can. You just have to do it really carefully. I mean, we’ve done it before, it’s LA on the Discord. Yeah. Oh, man, when people get convinced the whole world’s out for him. I mean, I could name a name, but you know. No, don’t do that. He’s not even online anymore because he’s all fixed now. So, you know, I mean, all fixed. He’s having a normal life that sucks because our lives all suck. But, you know, he’s not paranoid anymore that people are out to get him. You know, he just kind of realizes, well, most people are just screw ups and they don’t even know me. And the fact that they do something that impacts me is purely coincidental because they have a bad tea loss. Yeah. A bad aim. A bad aim, producers. Right? You’re off direction. You’re not oriented towards, we’re not truly focusing on something. I suppose the one that’s really interesting is when people think they got a good one, but the results of their actions show otherwise. That’s really interesting, I think. Well, they don’t know what they’re up to, right? And then you show it to them and they get upset because they realize either they’ve failed or they don’t know what they’re up to. Either way, it’s terrifying. Like, who the hell wants to fail? And unless you’re really curious and like to learn, in which case you realize failure is learning. That’s the same thing. Well, they don’t want you to be oriented. That’s the other thing. They don’t want you. They want you to keep going in the same direction because it’s comfortable or because it’s kind of easy. It’s easy. You know what you’re going to get. I mean, there’s something to the devil you know versus the devil you don’t. Don’t get rid of that troublesome employee because there might be a more troublesome one that you have to hire. You’ll never know. These are hard decisions. It’s not that straightforward at all. At all. And you never know who’s holding what together. I think it’s a lot of people that quit working with their family and then end up having the same kind of conflict with someone else. And it’s like sometimes you got to work quit working with your family. Sure. That’s sometimes. But sometimes it really wasn’t easy. The whole paradise brand new. Yeah. Yeah. It’s just. There’s a bunch of things I’m doing that potentially maybe. Could be easier and more efficient with. Non family members. But then it’s kind of like. I can have one problem. I understand. Or like. Three more problems and still have the problem. I understand. Plus those problems. Yeah. I don’t want. The problem you understand is more comforting than having a problem you don’t even know about could exist. Yeah. Calculation. We don’t make decisions on anything but risk. So that points us out in his book. And excellent point. He did a really good job in the books. Really good job. Of talking about this. We calculate risk. That’s what we calculate. When the risk is unknown, we have a lot more fear than when the risk is known. You can’t use objective material reality to calculate this, you know? Because there isn’t a gauge theory. There isn’t a set standard. So do you think unknown risk is always the highest risk to most people? Unconsciously, unknown risk is always the highest risk to most people. There are some exceptions, but some people see risk backwards. Which is fine, we need those people. Some people are like, you know what, I’m going to climb a building with no safety equipment. Oh, fair enough, dude. I figured out why I’ve pissed a lot of people off. I think… I’ve had bosses and stuff, I’m like, why don’t we do it this way? They’re like, we don’t know what will happen. I’m like, yeah. So much upset. And I’m just like, confused. Like, I’m just confused because I’m like, but we don’t know. You just said we don’t know. What’s the issue with that? I don’t know anything. No difference. Same difference to me. Good job, Sally. Creating existential fear for your bosses. And thinking it’s a good thing. And now laughing about it years later. Excellent. Barely appreciated. Barely. You know what I did once? The most miraculous thing I did at Intel. I was like, hey guys, you know what? We don’t have to use a black pointer or a white pointer. We can use a gray pointer. And everybody’s like, what? We’ve never done that. And I’m like, but we could. It’s a feature now. And then that wasn’t okay. But I did get them convinced to use a white pointer with a black outline. That could go both on black and white images. Revolutionary. That’s the kind of advances in government you didn’t even know you needed. And it was like a wave of deliberation. I swear. Sally, you’re going to love this. So I’m working on base on AWACS back in the day. Right? I’m on a military base, on an Air Force military base, working on AWACS. Now I’m working for a subcontractor, obviously. Right? And then they’ve got me doing desktop publishing. And they need some chart. I forget what the chart was for. It’s a huge chart. It’s like a one page chart. It had all these columns and rows and whatever. And they want me to print out this chart. Love their columns. Yes. Oh, they love them. They love them. So they want me to print out this chart. And I’m trying to print out the chart using the standard format that they’ve always used. Because it’s the military. You know the military. It’s the military. Right? Oh, God forbid. It’s unreadable. Right? And I’m finally like, I don’t know what to do. And I can’t get any guidance from anybody because everyone’s like, oh no, you can’t change anything. You have to do it the way. So I finally schedule some time to see the Colonel, Colonel Farish. Right? So I go into Colonel Farish’s office and I say, look, here’s the problem. This isn’t visible enough. You can see here and here. You know, most of it is. But here and here are just, you’re not going to be able to see them. So everyone tells me I can’t make a change, but I need to change this so that you can present it correctly. And like there’s like two other people in the office and they’re like, you know, because I’m just a contract. He doesn’t even know who I am. Right? He just knows what I do. That’s the best position to be in this case, because if you’re a contractor outside, I mean, this might be why contractors became a thing, which it’s not good. But like it was a gridlock. It was gridlock. Yeah, gridlock. All consulting is all about that. Consulting is to get around the systems you put in place to protect yourself from yourself. That’s why consultants exist, whether government contractor consultants or business. It doesn’t matter. So I go back. Right. And I make a bunch of changes. I experiment with something and get something that’s visible and whatnot. And I’m a freaking hero. I’m an absolute boss from that point forward. Because I faced down Colonel Farish and I was like, I didn’t know what was going on. I’m like, look, I’m just trying to help the guy out. I got this job and I got to get this done. And, you know, whatever. I didn’t I didn’t have any concept. Sometimes the best thing to do is just to come in at 2 a.m. and print it in a non-standard size and put it up on the wall and then just leave. And then it’s just there. Well, they were they were his presentations for the higher up. So I couldn’t get away with that. But yeah. Oh, man. It’s it’s just but this is like what is your T. Lois then where is that? Where was the T. Lois lost in the sauce? It was got lost in the damn sauce, which it’s somewhat understandable in a heavily bureaucratic structure because it’s like you got three T. Lois is going on at the same time. It’s like, you know, trying to earn a buck, trying to not get in trouble, trying to, you know, save the world and then how those three have conflicted to a chart. You don’t know what but you don’t know what you can change and what effect that will have. And oh, your Mills has a question. So my question is the thumbnail. What’s the deal is of live navigation. He loves the live navigations is stated in the live navigation titles for the each live navigation actually occurs. And it is determined by the distributed cognition of the of the the Council of Muppets. And that’s that’s pretty much how that works. And then the distributed cognition of the Council of Muppets figures it all out. And then somehow I put together a monologue and magic happens. And yeah, the goal is to do the monologue and get the basic ideas out there and then to distributed cognition our way through any questions and answers that we have and also demonstrate community or community causes or Vicky we call it in the moment. Right. And so that is sort of the format of what it is we’re actually doing. And of course, we’re doing this as pirates because pirates very well thought out pirates. It was what I tell you. I’ll tell you about fear and how fear relates to tell us in fear in some ways a precondition bad tell us. Well, it’s a manifestation of previous events that you use to determine what you focus on and what you don’t focus on. Well, this is why it’s telling you to fear God above all else. Because if you have a higher order fear, you’re actually much better off. But what is fear? Fear is an intuition. It’s an intuition. It’s not a rationality. Yeah, it’s not a logic. It’s not a reason. It’s an intuition. Yeah, I think especially when it comes to like the unknown or like working with different people, man, like you just it’s so easy to get lost on like what is motivating different people about different people. Right. I mean, it’s bad enough to work with people but working with people working with people. Oh, man. Well, that’s the issue because because people aren’t robots. And so they don’t think everybody the same because they can’t and they shouldn’t because people aren’t the same. You know, everyone wants their blessed equality until they actually get it. And they go, wait a minute, you treat me like that person. And now, you know, I don’t have an intimate connection. You wanted the equality. It’s your own damn fault, you muppet. And if you act like people should treat you equal and they can’t because you’re not equal, you’re just going to be angry and resentful. And you’re going to want something to change like the government or whatever. Right. And that’s the and that’s the problem. Mills still seems confused. Mills, this one is about T. Los. So, yes, this one is about it’s not salient necessarily salient is a good word. By the way, it’s it’s to pay attention to the tail loss. Right. It doesn’t just make it salient. It gives it gives you something to pay attention to within the salient landscape. I struggle with this T. Los thing as well. Mills and in pursuit of trying to understand it better, I forced people to make a list functional and unfunctional T. Los is and we had a fun being and a functional T. Los being diversity. And maybe. I don’t. Oh, he has the universe. The master of the universe mug. Every streamer do this just to remind people that the highest point higher point. Yeah. What are you aiming at? Who’s leading you? Bazzini does not have to tell us. So we’re going to skip this first comment. A higher order fear. Here. Orders lower fears. Yes. A higher fear orders lower fears. That is correct. It’s it would be I think I think this is a lot of what a lot of self help does when they’re talking to you about writing down your day or writing down what you’re doing enough. So that you can go back and look at it and see what you’re up to. And it’s actually helping you discern what’s motivating you like what to work because it’s sometimes it’s sneaky and you think that you know and then you figure it out later. It’s always sneaky because what are you doing? You’re doing something in the present. And if you don’t write it down, you’re going to rationalize it and misremember it every time. It’s very reliable. Right. But then if you write it down, what you’ve done is you re-enchanted time and said, well, at the time I thought I was doing this. And then you can look at the end result and go, but this happened. And now I have contrast. And now I can see. And now you say, well, why did that happen? Oh, oh, I don’t know what I’m up to. I have figured out when I’m doing a bunch of stuff and trying to get things done and then out of nowhere, I’m like starting to get irritated. I don’t think that I’m irritated with someone. And sometimes I can just go lay down for 10 minutes. And then it was like I was actually just tired. I was just tired. It wasn’t irritated anybody or hungry. Like there’s that hangry thing. It’s like, oh, no, no, you just needed a banana. It’s like, what? Yeah, you just needed a banana, dude. Like, I don’t know what to tell you. That’s because it wouldn’t matter how much I wanted to know when I just stopped. I can’t tell if I’m upset with someone or if I’m just tired until after I’ve tried sleeping. You need to time frame things and that gives you a T loss for your time. So you say if you don’t have a time frame or a boundary or way of discerning how much time things take, your T loss will shift to be too fluid. It’ll be your focus. Your aim will be misguided. It’ll swing sway with the wind in some sense. Well, there are plenty of reasons for not getting to be master of your own time. And if you’re going to do anything besides one thing, you’re going to be subject to disruption. And that’s just talking about time purely. I was talking about time in a frame. The frame actually matters more than the container in some points like it’s a time frame. The time frame determines the actions that will or won’t happen, the potential as Mark’s talked about. You frame things in a time for a certain amount of potential to manifest. Well, and that’s why people are helped with efficiency by the Pomodoro technique or by an agile software development time boxing. Right. Like, yeah, you create a contrast around time and all of a sudden a bunch of things sort of fix themselves to some extent. Right. Because now you can control the risk because you’re only going to spend 20 minutes on the Pomodoro technique. You’re only going to guess about the next four hours of work or whatever it is. So all those tactics work really, really well. You’ve got to close your door, Jesse. Come on. You know, sometimes he remembers, sometimes he doesn’t. Ethan. Whoops. All you have to do is impose a quote bad telos in people and they will do all the work of destruction for you. That is true. They will. It’s very accommodating of them. Also, they’re probably zombies. You have no idea. I personally know somebody that truly believes that every position in the hierarchy is directly correlated to how tyrannical they are. Well, yeah, that’s true. The adoption of the telos ensures total skepticism, cynicism. Right. Because you’re assuming the end result. You’re saying hierarchy is related to tyranny and therefore. Right. And then your backwards reasoning again. And which destroys all trust and potential trust and thus destroys the world. Exactly. You can’t cooperate with other people. You’re you’re screwed. And then Mills is pointing out, Ethan, I think you’re describing a large swath of people who actually enact that if when they move up the hierarchy. Well, look, we’re all in the hierarchy. And yeah, when they move. Right. Or even when they don’t. Right. Because what’s actually happening now is people are just creating arbitrary hierarchies. And then they’re going, ha, I’m better than you in this hierarchy. And therefore, you must do what I say. People do that all the time. Right. They try to impose that on me constantly. And they do that all the time. So one way they do this, I’ve talked about this before, but I’ll mention again. Europeans in particular seem to have a thing where they’re like, we’re better than America on whatever. It doesn’t even matter. Right. And when you talk to them, like, yeah, we hate American exceptionalism. And I’ve asked many, many, many, many times. I know a lot of Europeans. All the time. I still do. Right. I’d ask them, like, where is this coming from? Because everybody I know in the U.S. is like, oh, Europe’s the best, man. Yeah, we we need to be more like Europe. Everybody here is like that. Like almost every single human I have ever met in the world. Every single human I have ever met in the United States who is from here goes, we need to be more like Europe. Right. Despite all the immigration from Europe that we get, Europeans go, this place is great. Not all of them, but most of them. And the reason for that is because they seem to want to be back on top. They’ve all got empire envy. You know, once we ruled the shipping lanes and, you know, whether it’s Greece or it’s the Netherlands or it’s the UK or it’s France or it’s Spain, right. Portugal, they all had the top spot at some point. Right. And even Germany for a little while there, although bad results. You know, they all had the top spot or were part of somebody who had the top spot. So when you talk to some of these guys, they’ll be like, you know what? We put out less greenhouse gases than you guys do. It’s like you’re a tiny post stamp of a country. Of course you do. Like, right. Like, I don’t you know, it doesn’t even matter how many people you have. You don’t have enough land to do enough stuff. You put out enough stuff like we do. Like, it’s just not even a contest. Maine puts out less greenhouse than Texas. Right. No, no. Yeah. You could play that game all day. Right. And that’s the problem. Like, if people get stuck in this wanting to be at the top of the hierarchy game. And so they create new hierarchy games, which, by the way, you shouldn’t play in order to be at the top, even though it’s foolishness. Right. Because like the United States, which we did get rid of a lot of greenhouse gases, although I would say legitimately for the most part under the George W. Bush administration, primarily, incidentally, for all you weird lefties who are immune to facts. All the European countries just outsourced it to China. Like we did a lot of that, too. They just outsourced their greenhouse gas to other countries. And they go, our greenhouse gas is less. Yeah, but of the stuff you consume, your greenhouse gas consumption or production go up or down. Right. Because it almost always went up because everyone’s trying to improve their quality of living. And that is always comes at the expense of the climate no matter what. Like there’s no way around that. It’s boggling. It’s like we reduced our greenhouse gases. I’m like, well, did you quit using plastic or tin or aluminum or like product? Did you quit using? And then it’s just exactly right. Or that’ll go cars. So the funny thing about the climate narrative early on, I think this is in the late 90s, maybe early 2000s, is they were saying, yeah, we’re going to put all these controls in for cars. So when I did the research and it’s right there, like they’re not hiding it. Like, really, there’s no conspiracy to hide this stuff. Most people won’t look anything up ever at all, even though they’ve got the entire Internet in the palm of their hands. They’ll just never use it. So you look it up and it turns out that cars in the United States are a total of 2% of all greenhouse gas emissions, 2%. Right. And so you say, all right. So if we reduce the greenhouse gas emissions for cars by 50%, which is nearly impossible, we would make a 1% difference in total output for the United States of America at a huge cost. And then you start looking into it and you’re like, wait a minute, 10% of worldwide greenhouse gas production is done by seven cargo ships in the world. Seven. Do you know how easy it is to retrofit seven cargo ships rather than however many billions of cars the United States has? Not to mention that when you densely pack people so that they can’t have gardens and live like people, you actually increase their consumption. Right. Like dramatic. Also true. Because you can’t have all the things and just a whole bunch of things. Anyway, but that’s what I mean. Oops. Tea loss matters. Yeah. Well, the carbon they want to reduce is you. We went through that last week. That’s so accurate. Yeah, I love that one. No, but Zini’s showing it. Right. The great reset is a conspiracy theory. Never mind the book by that name describing the idea. Right. Well, what’s your tea loss? I mean, to reduce humans. That’s, they have it on a big rock in front of their place. Like. Yeah, I haven’t done the math, but I did read this math. I just didn’t do it myself. Somebody actually said the in terms of compactness, the most physical carbon is a person. Yeah. Seems iffy to me. In like one place, you know, like, like. It’s like people say that humans are the most intricate pattern ever. Conceited. I just don’t make. I’m like. Totally untrue. Wouldn’t pound for pound diamonds be more carbon than humans? Like, isn’t that. I mean, in total, but there’s no diamond that big. I think that’s what it is. All the diamonds. But also, but also you can’t really release the carbon from the diamonds. So it doesn’t affect greenhouse gases. But you know what does is people. If you want to reduce, then you got to get rid of the people. There’s no other way, Sally. I think this is I think it was. You just have the wrong tea loss. Just admit we have to get rid of the carbon people. I think the T. Lowe’s was just get the people and that’s what we have to carbon issue. So here, here, Nathaniel, right. Do you think people get overwhelmed thinking about a quote grand T. Lowe’s? All right, dude, you’re very postmodern. Something like a big T. Lowe’s in the sky. All right. Here’s what happens though. Let’s suppose I am going to pretend to be an atheist for half a second. Which hurts my soul, by the way. So I hope you appreciate the sacrifice here. I’m going to say, you know what? There is no God. But also, what we should be focusing on is reducing carbon in the atmosphere. Are you sure you didn’t just recreate the grand T. Lowe’s? Are you sure? Because you did. Right. Like nobody doesn’t think of a grand T. Lowe’s. Nobody. It doesn’t happen. You have to embed yourself in something larger and greater than yourself. You have to. Right. And so this idea that. What is it? Francois Lyotard. I can’t remember his first name now. Which is what the earlier link was about. The why philosophers are all trolls. Modern philosophers are all trolls. What he was saying was everybody needs their own mini narrative so they don’t get overtaken by the grand narrative. Which is of course silly. Because you can’t live in a mini narrative. Right. And so you get kind of caught up in that. You know do people get overwhelmed by the things that are bigger than them? Yes. Are they optional? No. So what difference does it make? Like if it’s not optional it’s great to talk about all the quote problems it creates but they’re not problems. They’re not problems. Non-optional things that look like problems are not problems. They are patterns that you have to deal with. They don’t have solutions and they’re not going away. And if they don’t have solutions and they’re not going away don’t make them into problems because you can’t fix them. And if you can’t fix something it’s not a problem. It’s just something you have to deal with. Right. There’s no such thing as a perennial problem like John Verbecky would have you believe. He’s describing a perennial pattern. You don’t solve grief. You go through grief. And you grow bigger than grief to pawn off of Carl Jung. That’s the bottom line. And then Bazzini claims the human brain is pretty intricate. No clue about the carbon density. Thank you. Tilos are fractal dude. Yeah man you got our fractal telos. We could be on the beach and get some waves dude. I agree. We need to hire order telos to order the smaller. Exactly. Yeah you don’t get out of it. Nathaniel I did fall into a lot of the French Masonic philosophers and Martinism for a while. So guilty as charged I suppose. Yeah I’m wondering if all modern philosophy, fast play, fast play on Aristotle leads to Gnosticism. But that’s a discussion for another day. We’ll probably have a live stream on that someday just because it’s always forefront of my mind. How come all these things seem to converge on evil so so nicely. It takes a while sometimes but it’s always there. Jesse has abandoned us. That’s unusual. Yeah what is the telos of the philosopher you’re listening to? Hmm. That’s what Manuel found out. He’s like all these philosophers when you watch Sugru’s channel they all just had a personal trauma. And they took that personal trauma and scaled it up to make it the world’s problem. And then solved it there instead of just fixing it in their own lives. Yes that’s what happened. Hold on Sally. Thanks Freud. Sky telos. Is that a cat? Did you put a freaking cat in a drawing? It’s long cat being held by God Mark. It’s long cat in the right hierarchy. Stop using the G word here or I’ll have to kick you off. Oh well the holder of long cat as we refer to him now forward. You just said long cat. You need to point better without pointing too directly. We’ve been working on Sally’s pointing the capabilities. I sound like my art teacher and being accused of pointing too directly. I don’t know what to tell you. You’re supposed to draw around the empty space. Remember? No. Sky telos. Hierarchy is important. Your position in it is not. Or rather your position in it shouldn’t be concerning to you. Yeah you should be able to accept it. Nathaniel. There’s a lot of don’t worry about which path you take. Just take one in that scene. Yeah well. Oh Mills is a fan of long cat. Sally. Long cat is important. I agree. Without long cat where would we be as a society? I had one art piece in my Phoenix series called the crippling nature of the Satchin. The little person on top of a mountain and down the mountain in every direction are golden paths. And they’re kind of just sitting in the fetal position. Because I think that’s the way it is. I think that’s the way it is. I think that’s the way it is. And they’re kind of just sitting in the fetal position. Because I think that is what a lot of people after domicide and like the disruption of mom and family. Like there are just so many. Different. Causes and things and refrains. It’s just impossible to discern. Which opportunities you’re supposed to go after. Because speaking to navigate. opportunities. If you had a telos you could see them. You could see down them with like a laser stoop. You would know. If your telos was to go out and find a wife and build a family. And basically continue your family lineage. It wouldn’t matter by which means you didn’t. Maybe you’d become a donut maker or maybe a street sweeper. And I think that’s the way it is. I think it’s the way you get to have a family lineage. I think it’s the way that you get to have a family lineage. So yeah, I think it’s a good idea. I think it’s a good idea. I think it’s a good idea. It’s like whatever facilitated that. Because the point of that is not. Done some pretty lame jobs. That’s a cool job. But like I Was always just working for myself and for my goals and for my plans And like I didn’t know I wish I could have figured that out sooner, right because it could have been better quicker faster, but I Did have it and it’s like if you could figure out what you actually wanted the means won’t matter so much and like freaking bad customer service at Wendy’s Inconsequential if you’re buying your boat or fixing your grandma’s house or you know, whatever you’re ordering it to Who cares Right. You’re not gonna be stopped by insane customers at Wendy’s if you But that’s the problem if you’re if you think your T-Los is to Go to school get a degree in what you love like teaching or whatever and buy a house You’re nuts Your T-Los should be Start your family, right? and then you do whatever it takes because Then you can move to someplace cheap enough to buy a house and still work because those places exist. I live in one of them I Got into this big fight on YouTube comments and this guy was doing this whole thing about median income versus median house price You can’t use medians that way you can’t it’s not appropriate because You know and then he said even in the Midwest houses are $220,000Ialreadyknowyo{u}^{\prime }relyingbecauseIdrovethroughMidwestandtha{t}^{\prime }sjustfalseButalsodownthestreetformedownthestreettwomilesisittwomiles.I{t}^{\prime }snoteventwomilesmileaquarter$120,000 brand new 3,500 square foot house two car garage on an acre This gets into what the T-Los of your home. What is the purpose? What is the function of your home because there’s people that like they want the kitchen the dining room the bar They want to entertain they want to have people over and then there’s people they’re like, I want to sleep there I want to keep my food there and I want a garage to take part of my cycle or there’s people that I don’t even care. I just want to not freeze to death and then I want to go rope it Or or fishing or like whatever Like there’s people that want to live in the hellscape Which is urban scenarios and they want to have a place where their stuff won’t get stolen Half a block from a coffee shop that’s open 24-7 and the disco club and whatever that I don’t understand But if that’s you what you want, you can’t there’s no amount of equality that will placate that What how awful would that be if the guy that just wants to not freeze to death and be able to fish and the guy That wants to live above the freaking DJ place and live like, you know Like just have a place where stuff won’t get stolen in in a city. What if they were made equal instantly? Right, great one size. None You’ve totally succeeded Enjoy Yeah Yeah, and without the tea loss you can’t prioritize do I want a cheap enough house to live in or do I want the job of my dreams Because maybe those are your decisions Do I want my PhD or do I want a good happy family? Because maybe if I have a good happy family later, I can get my PhD But maybe the other way around doesn’t work. I don’t know. I mean, I’m not saying this acutely It’s possible these things are not symmetrical and then it’s easier to get your PhD later in life Unless of course you have a trust fund like PhDs are designed for trust fund babies So they don’t screw up the world like the World Economic Forum’s doing instead They go to school forever where they’re harmless because they won’t do all their bad ideas. They’ll just think about That’s why we have PhDs keep those lunatics away from the real world So they don’t ruin it for the people who actually grow the food No, really I’m not being hyperbolic here actually that’s what it’s for It’s a game for wealthy people to play to stay out of trouble Are we confusing purpose and T loss are they different Well, I Would say that you need to reserve T loss for the larger goals And then of course you run into the problem. What’s a logical? Yeah. Yeah, I agree. But again The purpose can point at material manifestation and it’s fine. It won’t corrupt anything But T loss cannot because it will corrupt immediately Right, that’s the issue is that yeah We have these different words that mean roughly the same thing because some are appropriately repointed only at material But T loss is only appropriate in the ethereal. It’s only for the potential right the non manifest and maybe they’re non manifestable like because maybe With any T loss you can’t get there But you can get really close if you’re really lucky and good So If you ask someone yeah, I’m just seeing if I can cause of enough of a Enough of a stir to move the conversation forward if you ask someone what is your T loss? It’s a strange question Mm-hmm. If you ask someone what their purpose is, it’s even darker You’re like, what is it? Why are you doing this? What’s your purpose? He like the that Hmm. I use aim a lot is your aim is very surface level. Yes Right, but but if you are some of their purposes it’s You’re you’re grading the bottom of an ocean a purpose is something you expect to manifest and aim is something you hope to manifest So that’s why I find aim useful instead of T loss And yeah, I was trying to distinguish between Between being aware of How you frame things what the question is because the way you approach this sphere of potential manifestation will determine what What you receive back in the world? in phenomena your interactions with people right, well in and You might have a purpose of manifesting something to see what other things become available as a result Or as a T loss really is the final cause Right So the the manifestation of a purpose or an immediate goal or something Might be the thing that allows you to see the T loss more clearly as the result of its manifestation Right and then Mills is is proper file final T. Lo’s always unattainable. No, it’s just unattainable in this world How’s that? Here’s the question this will stare enough There’s the dream state and then Fantasies There’s the dream state and when you aim when you aim at the dream state But you’re trying to live towards the dream your idea your ideal, right? Mm-hmm. That’s a it’s a soft goal a unit opium Desire is a hard goal. It’s a state. It’s a state of causality It’s a place where you want to achieve It’s a state of causality it’s a place where you want to achieve not just for yourself but for those around you You can have a fit like a fantasy is Pure potentiality, right? It’s a dream in some sense, but a unit opium you’re actually you’re wanting a result at all costs. It’s no longer flex. Yes Yes, but I would be careful even with using dream because the problem with a dream is that your dream is yours It’s very individualistic whereas and and people try to make it not that way but all they’re trying to do That’s what it was. Yeah, it’s what I’m trying to get. Yeah. Okay. So yeah Well, that’s why we hammer hard on T loss, right? Because we’re trying to re-enchant so we’re like no no No, we need a new word. We can’t just aim is not sufficient Although sometimes it is right but aim is not sufficient when you’re talking about, you know The ultimate or the end or the eschatology or whatever right then you really need T loss To bridge that final gap because because T loss is realizable in perfection, but not while you’re alive. Sorry Hmm It also like if you have grown up with this idea that Armageddon is the final end of all things and Not just the end of something like you you if you’ve been framed Armageddon is like it’s the ultimate event of all things Wrong by the way, it’s cyclical if you want to look at yeah as well as that’s Cyclical Armageddon is meant to be interpreted as cyclical, right? It’s it’s an end of things the end of this wave round and the end of that’s like recur end of that cycle Right. And so it also depends on how how big your cycle circle is Right that you’re using to interpret phenomena of the world Ignore the sky T. Loose for a second here and so you have your aim at the Prey and then you your Minds I of a feast Yes, that’s correct. Okay So that’s the difference between the aim the purpose and the T loaves maybe Yeah, the purpose might be to hit the animal Right so that you kill it Or to be a good hunter or whatever Well, no, no, the purpose would be to hit the animal Hunter is not dependent upon the material it wouldn’t even be the animal it’d be the sustenance from Yeah Yeah What the sorting it out is? Yeah, because if you if you purely the problem is if you purely think it’s just the animal the aim is just to Kill kill destroy conquer wrong, right? Yeah behind the animal Behind behind the hunting of the animal which is the sustainability of the tribe or community Purpose might be to kill the animal but the T loaves you feed the group Again, that’s all right. I want to push back because even if you’re defending yourself against a predator Your purpose your T loss is not to kill the animal your purpose and is to She was she was pretty careful she has to be careful she hangs out with Marc Emanuel One word you go after her Like two and a half years ago guessing T looses it like and I Was really struggling with them and I’m like, I think my clothes is to make beautiful things and they’re still telling me how I’m wrong about that and I’m still not completely sure why Beauty is a bad is a bad aim. Yes But I Want to I want to address these because they’re stacking up here Ethan aim must be in uncreated potential ethereal and not in created things or realized effects Yes, and then he says aim must be quote good person uncreated potential and not In what good person does or the appearance of a good person, right? That’s the idolatry or the Diagnostic thinking sneaking it right and I’m gonna push back on Mills not faking it till you make it. No Aim or T loss is all faking it in that you don’t know that you can accomplish what you’re trying to like Aiming doesn’t mean you’re gonna hit the target. It just means that you have the intent Ah, you lost intent first, right come first and intent last in action of trying to hit it And so the faking it is assuming that you can do something that you do not know you can do and That’s why the fake it to you make it works because it has to be true because again You can’t measure your way to a wall That’s Z knows paradox you cannot measure your way to a wall if you try to measure and get to a wall You can never touch the wall Right, so you can’t you can’t state definitively scientifically that this is gonna happen But you increase your chances when you assume that it can right and that is taking you don’t know until you’ve done it Whether or not even if you’ve done it before whether or not that time you’re going to succeed because sometimes you don’t do any sort of craftsmanship you have to start from a place of discipleship or copying or mimicry Right or going from someone else’s pattern plan recipe, right? You have to you have to start from a place of humility Right not hubris not thinking that you’ve got it first time on time or you know Like all that you can just fake it the entire time There’s a purpose to mimicry is to assume a level of norm in order to build up from Although if you’re always flaking it you’re too flexible and no one can point out to you what your tell us is because you’re always An actor you’re always faking. I don’t like As a thing you you you fail until you Yeah, picking it intends putting up an intentional known facade Make it harsher you just fail until you make it just keep it until you’re not failing anymore Like that’s or until you reach the threshold of I’m never gonna be be competent at this right? Oh, yeah, yeah, which is rare actually I mean possible Yeah, I mean it it happens I know lots of people that will never be able to code But Zini says catch and release fishermen are evil confirmed. Yes. Yes, we can validate that right here on the show That is that is correct Depends on let the fish go man. Why’d you bother to catch if you’re gonna let it go? I mean Is it wrong to know if you can catch it? Well the sharper the knife the easier the cut and steps That’s where I think I would land is you always you’re in the process of being Becoming the right thing for the right job would be one way to put it Well, yeah, cuz is your if you’re if you’re becoming a like an artisan, especially Is the end product the thing you’re making or is the end product your ability to make the things you’re making? Well, the artist is always far more interesting than he’s actual art. Yeah Yeah over time that’s you can see that pattern. Yeah Van Gogh is my favorite The bank I’m more interesting than he’s actual hot. Well, you have to be You have to imbue the art with interest and that means you have to have the interest to give but if you have it to Give you must have more right then unless you put it all in one piece Which I mean as for some artists you right? But yeah, of course there has to be more there Plus you’re an agent the artist Been imbued with interest it decays immediately because entropy is real Yeah Which is why photography I actually listen to you guys talk on Sally Joe’s channel Shout out to Sally. I’ll finally listen to that Salience talk about art not history. We should do it again We should do it again, we should make points and we should do them all here again, there’s a there’s a council of muppetry I think we can do it again anymore from school now maybe maybe we should just maybe we should just have a Council of muppets YouTube channel and then we can do special streams of three or more and Just circumambulate single muppet topics It sounds fine with me Yeah, I think there’s a tea loss to doing it under navigating patterns though Yeah Contrast if we’re always too heady it never applications and I’m glad I did it I Was so into those topics at that time and then like right now it’s not that I don’t care about them But they just feel further away. I Was I was so into the culture where war and now I’m just like, oh can I make things really happen? Well, this is what’s kovat is done kovat is kind of realigned a lot of people’s talos yeah, oh, yeah can see pre kovat you can see pre kovat there was a Zeitgeist a spirit Circulating around certain topics and then kovat is kind of redistributed all this cognitive. No I’m sure you meant fake news virus scamdemic. But yes I have to you have to use a concrete word to point to a phenomena Otherwise, you’re forever pointing to no. No, you don’t want to know you don’t ever want to point to that phenomena ever You want to pretend that that phenomena was fake because it was fake Well, because you need you need to disenchant it right because it enchanted. Oh, I know I know Right. Well, you need to disenchant it. So you need to add all the all the indirect pointer words on purpose It’s actually really important Me to just change it. I’d be kicked off No, no, no, no, I don’t think so at all. No, no you can get away with these things It’s you just got to be you just got to be really careful and consistent. That’s all Yes, there you go We talk about telos. There you go. Be careful and consistent Oh, we thought we think there’s a clean your room That your household in order and then contribute to the community and in the last year and a half, I’ve realized I was sort of I Was off a little and I’m still in the setting my household in order process and very minimally in the contribute to broader spectrum things your your you know, your households in very good order and you’re contributing tremendously to Peterson level order mark It is you you’re you’re you want military order and that’s not gonna Order 8020 is a great world a 20s a great rule This is true. You’re always in you the stages are always of having different things in the right Yeah, you forever Really? I’m distributing your energy I want to get back to that to the video that Sally and I did so long ago Ethan the true appearance of quote good person will reveal themselves to you only after you successfully adopted the telos of quote good person That is true and Bazzini says the telos of the pickup artists. Well, look, it’s it’s explicit, right? The pickup artist is trying to get a material interaction with somebody instead of intimacy. It’s part of the intimacy crisis Right and and that’s the thing You know, it’s it’s kind of explicit and then mills setting your telos being aspirational plus devotion and indwelling Am I missing an ingredient so many ingredients so many ingredients There’s there’s a this is part of the problem like the world is super complex and Re-enchanting it sucks because you have too much to track So the question is where should you stop trying to track things and just submit to the distributed cognition the institution? You know, I’m not here to answer that I can’t answer that I know what my answer is And you can just ask me like you just tell you no. No, I just outsource that here I just do this here or I do my own research there, right and then look I’m fairly upfront like no No, I did the research. No, no, I didn’t do the research on that. I just believed somebody else, right? Because because it’s important to see to see people do both right? Like I don’t I don’t read every white paper of everything a lot of white papers I don’t and I also don’t just take everybody’s word for it, right? I mean, I have some friends who are very very good except with certain specific things and then I know not to listen to them right, so They’re just they’re just not there yet But to go back Jesse the talk that I did with Sally because she recently we watched it and said oh I see what you were trying to point certain things and I was ignoring you which I thought was great So what I wanted an in-depth on your impressions on on what you were trying to point out Your impressions on on what it was and whether or not you noticed me trying to get her to go in certain directions in her not actually doing that because I still find that amusing and and it’s so funny too because And she could she can she can ask Michelle or whomever. I’m like, well, I’m gonna try to point her here here and here But I don’t think it’s gonna work You’re you’re bullying it was just not Mark if you just would have bullied me harder Then I would have lived but no There’s a Is a duality to YouTube videos It’s hard to describe because in some aspects you need to be exploring and some aspects you need to have a structure Right. Yeah, and so if parts of your presentation if we were to call it that so you had a structure you had a Goal or tell us in mind an argument or things you’re trying to put out and other things you were kind of exploring and Then at certain times mark was trying to reorientate and say hey You have some things you wanted to say and you haven’t said them yet So I’m gonna be structure or point out where you’re going. So it’s this that was I’m sure if there’s a description describing this but You need to know more about the thing that you’re talking about more than you let on to be confident in it And so if you’re a master of this matter you talking casually about something You’ll be super competent in your presentation If you’re not confident or confident in what you’re saying, you will kind of hold back and it won’t it won’t come across clearly So there’s a great diet. There’s a great problem with that that sort of Problem with that that sort of contrast of you know, having a structure also breaking through the Letting you know the spirit all the intuitions come to you in the moment. So That’s a yeah, you have to balance that so that was well said I like that I like that analysis Yeah, you have to balance also trying to bring tea loss somewhere in there. Yes, you have to Which he right that was the soft beer tea loss and some yeah, right. She had a tea loss Right, but she felt like she had to get at this thing out in this order in this way with this chart right, she worked on it for a long time to it was a lot of work and then She wasn’t quite connecting all the dots in a way that I thought was good right so like I’m gonna connect this to this and and I you know and plus explore this and yeah, there was a Confidence and I think that’s part of it Like your tea loss is the thing you aspire to in some sense So she was aspiring to give a good presentation which actually was there’s nothing wrong with video It’s actually a great video right well at the same time Struggling with this You know with engaging with me while I’m trying to get the exploration going, you know And make extra connections through the exploration and and that was and that was the problem Oh Zini the line between encouraging goading and bullying is fuzzy, but there is one there No, I don’t I don’t think it’s fuzzy at all. A good friend will prod with the right spirit Well, yeah, then they’re not ever like a good friend can never bully you Right and the fact that you perceive to somebody being bullied doesn’t mean it happens The that’s the problem is that you can’t trust your perceptions and you think you can The joke was people accuse mark of bullying all the time and I’m like No, I keep coming back with questions that sometimes I’m sure I know the answers to to make him ask again It’s possible. I bully him more Yes Yes, if we’re counting who bullies who more Sally Joe Yes, definitely bullied me far more than I could possibly bully her yeah, I mean it’s yeah Well that happened again, right and I was like you’re gonna have to explain to me how anybody Voluntarily coming into a voice chat and staying there is being bullied. Like just tell me how that’s possible. Go ahead I’m open. I’m open to learning something new that I don’t know today, but I don’t think it’s possible So it doesn’t mean I’m happy with all of his opinions But when I already know what they are and then bash them up against the wall several hundred times to figure out my why Yeah, like no Yeah, yeah Ending you don’t understand my point just to get it totally fleshed out for no apparent reason others parts of your points like there’s there’s more parts you see and then you think nobody needs to know what they are or something or There you think they’re obvious No, well, that’s that I’m guilty of a lot of things I think are obvious and everyone else is like what and I’m like, you can’t not make this connect not possible like yeah No, the the collaborative nature of discord has massively helped me trust the conversation More and I was still very much in a defensive art school frame Where it was like if you were talk about something like that like the amount of just which that was pointless too Because you weren’t gonna get anywhere with facts or reason Anyway, but I didn’t know that yet completely, so Yeah Will you say that in your video too? You can I gloss over the poor? What’d you say I didn’t you in your in your your Art chat with mark you talk about the self referential nature of art like you learn more theory than you do Practicality or the applications or next to no application which was a huge disappointment to me because I was all about the application but That’s just how it goes I Guess the the the hidden truth behind there is if you want to become an artist you do have to know Where you are in the great chain of being? In the history of things because if you’re if you’re purely just trying to copy you man, eh, I’m sorry You’re not gonna get the attention matrix of most of the West you have to kind of somehow Recurry on that spirit Fights you about this this sheer hubris to think you don’t learn a portion of Where you are in the grand scheme of things by the physical application of manipulating matter is insanity That’s insanity like you actually learn that through the medium Like the medium teaches you that the medium is unforgiving Well, they can it can it can the question is do you have eyes and see any of you? Without the medium is Like well, it’s hijacked It’s completely utterly hijacked and bereft of soul at this point because it was just feminist hogwash And they were mad at me because I wouldn’t take up my victim status as a female veteran and I’m like I don’t know what to tell you. I wasn’t abused. I had good units. I was in good units I There were assholes they were equally assholes to everyone. I’m certain of it Yeah, ah Yes, unfortunately, it makes me very salty salty veteran over art school. Oh Sorry Jesse, it’s not fair to you But this is the thing they’re like, you know, that’s fine I am I think it was last year before we had down here on the the great down until we had Exhibition and you paid you have to pay to get in like 20 to 25 dollars to get in That’s not it’s not like um Not like just a free exhibition where you can just walk through and you’re if I don’t like it I do like it You have to you have to pay for the the gallery itself is free But the exhibition of that particular focus the tea loss of of going that is to see it the tea exhibition and People were just brazing through it like it was a regular Gary and like we you paid to be here so stop and actually look at each thing and like look at the little placards or Get the little portfolio and find out the sort of presentations being they were just brazing through because they don’t know Just they don’t have eyes to see they don’t want to know and if not paying attention to what’s before them they’re not going to receive the The The narrative or the the drama or the story you could pick you pick your frame there Every experience yeah, if you’re treating every experience as with equal portion we write equal Meaning or purpose then you’re gonna be you just know you’re gonna look You Right you’re stuck in a bad frame because you just like oh well Whatever my it’s my internet dropping Bottom line is that’s the perfect example if you treat the museum Or the gallery as the place that is free and then there’s a section of it That’s not free, but you’re treating it as if it’s free You’re ignoring the signal of the money well It tells you to pay attention in a different way and if you don’t do that You’re losing the experience and you’re an NPC now because you become a slave to the game of gallery or Museum or whatever rather than engaging in the experience so the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston put on We were members on and off right they used to put on special exhibits all the time and in the special exhibits were Experiences and not everybody was invited obviously and you had to plan and they usually fill up So like you’d have to get in or a minute they announced we had to buy tickets with one of the dates pretty quickly Otherwise you were completely screwed You wouldn’t get in but those were special experiences outside the normal exam museum exhibits that would Enable you to engage with something much more deeply and if you didn’t do that and some people didn’t they paid for it They went to the thing they made the time and they still didn’t do it. They didn’t get the same experience That’s because their aim or their telos was wrong but I mean the literal piles of cement rubble like that just had a good social justice right up with them and the Feminine napkin tablecloth that was just Red food color stained napkin tablecloth that was in the senior show next to my work that was Not that I Just insults to the entire institution You can see but you can see there Sally You can see that you can figure out the good or bad tell us it’s like alright well feminism produces rubble or Broken tablecloths that are dirty with blood lovely Those got awards and those got senior Residencies and all that jazz I know or effort or care or concern was gonna get you anyway Because they wanted the reality of the feminist agenda To be a matter He lost even though you can know that you don’t need to see the end result You can look at the art and go this is this is just a pile of rubble. This is just a Blood-stained table cloth. Those are not good things. So the new law is already bad And you can game the system if you’re actually smart you just realize oh they want me to fit Oh, great We can be the fit like there are plenty of smart intelligent artists right now I mean her being the chief clan of them all he’s like, okay I can just make a bunch of plates and I could basically make homewares and call it art great Great money opportunity and it’s a great way to make a statement But he’s playing a game like he’s actually playing game. There was a young man a fat young man who did a casting of his madness and then copied it 300 times and then got permission to let women write how they’ve been oppressed on by the patriarchy on the Ceramic embodiment of his madness and then had them all crushed in the thing and I’m like does no one Comprehend that he is a fat man who has found a way to have many many women touch his madness No, I mean, it’s a great idea like I’m enjoying the premise it’s horrible In the moment if you’re not paying attention to the manifestation or you ignore the second-order effects You’re like a little purpose is to crush it. No, no the purpose is to get the touches in That’s the purpose and and right you don’t know right because you have conflicting aims basically, right? Even though they’re the same process like that one process can’t have one set of effects That’s that’s not the way it works And you know bazini points us out sometimes people pay to be seen looking at art instead of looking at the art Well, that’s a different T loss, right? Yeah, absolutely I’m no more thinking about that Sally, but I’m gonna use that story. It’s actually great And that’s where modern art is Yeah, it’s horrible David Walker it doesn’t expose them Sally’s right. They crown this stuff. Well, sometimes yeah, there’s only so much you can do It feels like yeah, no what you can do is withdraw your time energy and attention Yeah And then then it gets lessened and it really that’s all you need to do is put your time energy Attention to something good and then there were more time or you tend to do good things It’s that simple like you don’t have to fix the bad thing directly. You have to call it out though You have to tell people no. No, that’s bad. You have to justify it either, you know, because I do this all the time I go no, no, that’s bad. I’m not doing that. You’re like, why is it bad? Well, I’m like I completely changed a major Possibly because of like two sentence exchange my art teachers like what are you doing after art school? And I’m like, well, I’m gonna have a kid and she never spoke to me kindly again. And the thing was I wasn’t 19 I was 29 like I had already done like a Two tours in the American services. I had done the full liberated Like it was not a ridiculous ignorant notion that I would take art school Recreate and start a family like that’s just not insane. And like within a month I Decided I had liked a the the metals teacher better and I was like, you know what? It doesn’t really make a big difference to me whether I make my surrealist paintings in oils like I thought I always would or Small metal sculpture no difference. I’m a surrealist painter So I just did that and like my sands of time The reason why Sally remembers that exhibition about the guy with these copy now members is because Your memory is driven by things that you pay attention to phenomena But also you’re noticing a tea loss underneath these things and so that reading that that manifest a tell You are something important to remember there And that will help me determine a better tea loss in the future Right. You remember that you remember the contrast like as Bazzini points out quote male feminists gets 300 women to touch his junk in The name of social justice. Well, that’s effectively what happened Like the great we have to appreciate the fact that it’s a great idea He’s he’s gained which is my original premise of this. He’s gained this system. So Like Congrats to you you’re a horrible person but Something he was the dangerous person at art school he would openly wear antifisher and talk about how violence was the answer and so Being myself because I’m stupid I gave him a ride in the rain once and then he continued how violence was necessary thing Even further in more aggressively towards me until I kicked him out of the bus stop And it was it was just the most ridiculous thing like I’m like, I’m the only one I’m the only one that will give you a ride in the rain and you just happen to know that I support Trump and you’re Just being an insane person like so special David Walker, you’re right. Most people these days are going to see good art to be seen. Yeah. Well Instagram vacations Well, I don’t know that with most people. I mean part of the problem is You know, no no offense artists. No one looks at art No one by percentage population. It’s actually no one It’s not you you know, I get it and art has an impact so we should pay attention to it So there’s an outsized impact for sure. No question about that But no one act you don’t need to worry about that What you need to worry about is whether or not you’re pointing at the good when those people come around and tell them no No, you’re just a horrible person right because I do. Yeah, that’s that’s a terrible thing to do Like what what what and I’m like, yep, and then I exemplify non terrible things to do and Problem solved it’s the best you can do you can’t do any better than that But you don’t have to like you’re not required to save the world single-handedly from mobs of people looking at bad art That’s that there’s nowhere on the agenda where that’s your task Your task is to call it out for sure and your task is to call it out to individuals and say no No, I’m not going to that art exhibit because it’s a horrible artist I’m not reading Foucault because he is definitely a bad human being right like that that that is your obligation Right, but your obligation is not to actually solve it Oh and bubble this but you pay attention to what happening here. You guys are buccaneers. Now. Did you know that? The three Muppeteers is more like it But Paid into what prioritized I keep saying this in different ways These streams pay attention to what’s emphasized or prioritized and that will tell you the underlying tailors of the people that are holding the event or making the statement or Yeah, that was what really bugged me the absolute Like the absolute consistency that anyone with genuine skill and genuine elegance was utterly demeaned That was what was really in an art school That was absolutely consistent anybody who had genuine skill and who was truly magnificent was demeaned Well, yeah Because they’re ideals and you don’t want to be judged and that people hate success And what better way to hate success than to punish it and you know Peterson talks about that promote the most hateful trash possible But that wasn’t their goal their goal was to not be judged because they want to be equal and so you have to hold up the Lowest Peugeot talked about this in a clip. He was talking to Benjamin Boyce He talks about the inversion of the hierarchy is inevitable because hierarchy is inevitable So when you when you’re upset about the way it’s going because you’re not at the top what you end up doing is holding Up the the margin right and integrating the center or bringing up the bottom to the top or something Which is what you were describing so bubble this looked up with a gang of pirates was called I mean it sounds like a great name for a movie This true well they made better movies when it was Goldberg’s T loss to make as much money as possible really I don’t know I don’t I think I think the problem is that you’re thinking of tell us is one thing in relation to a movie and the Bottom line is there’s at least three different aims in a movie Well, maybe four right because you’ve got the aim of the producer Okay, and then the producer is gonna pick people who thinks can carry out that aim So if the producers greedy and this is you know, look Gordon Gekko greed is good He wasn’t wrong you can you know, you can get all upset about that all you want. That’s not wrong. Actually, that’s quite correct But it can’t be everybody’s T. Loose, right? The actors have to want to be in good movies So if you want if you want to watch good movies, you can follow certain actors So like William Hurt is only ever in good movies pretty much like that because that’s his goal He’s it stated there are a few actors like this. They state no. No, I only want to do movies of a certain type And then it just so happens to turn out that they’re only in movies really good scripts Because they bother to read the script to make a decision based on that and not based on the money Right and because their T. Loose is different the producers don’t care if your T. Loose right lines up with them They only care if they can exploit your T. Loose to make their money Right, just like the just like the sculptor only cared that somebody touches junk 300 times He doesn’t care if he’s gonna win the award, right? It’s the same thing and so the T. Loose of the writers might be entirely different You want to get a certain point across? Like Almost Famous. I love that movie Almost Famous. It’s autobiographical, right? Such an interesting movie It’s so real. It’s so real you just tell like no, no, no, he didn’t he didn’t write this He’s just diary entries, you know, like all this actually happened almost exactly the way right if You if you’re out to make really great movies Probably one of the ways to do that would be to make a lot of money so you can make a lot of really great movies Those don’t seem in conflict like right there not in cop That’s the other problem. They’re not in conflict, right? The first flop you make when you go to zero as I mentioned you’re screwed And so if you don’t have in your consideration the money, but the question is where is it prioritized? Right and and that’s like you can say look I want to make really good art But I need to make money with it so that I can make really good more really good art and you’re a producer And that’s the only way you can make any art because maybe you saw right so this happens with a lot of Especially in the 70s and 80s this happened with a lot of songwriters, right? So there were a handful of really good songwriters and they wrote all the song all those one hit wonders They were written by like three people, you know, and then and then or they were especially in the 60s Right. Why all the 60s California Rock was was just one one or two session Yeah, one or two like the entire yeah it’s just because they couldn’t be on stage or play an instrument and So their only involvement in the art was writing really good songs And then you sell them to rich people who you know Who who just have enough money to play instruments all day and then they just buy really good music And then they can be you know famous and popular without you know Without without having the talent other than having the you know access to the expensive instrument There’s nothing wrong with that system In fact, it’s coming back because it’s a perfectly viable system and the other systems just turn out not to be viable We can argue about whether or not that should be the case, but that is how it is What a brothers is doing that Yeah People looking at modern art are all snobs. Thank you bubble this You discuss this and if you discussed it just throw it out but um knowing the Words, um The difference between telos and identity Yeah Yeah, well your identity in in the thing is determined by your telos I Don’t think you have an identity I think you identify with things but you have a character Well the the identity yeah, I mean you have many identities, right? So so what is your identity in relation to the movie? Well, what are you doing? Right. Are you just the writer or are you the writer who wants to make a great script? Because that those are two different identities as it turns out right because the telos changes and And and so that’s how it affects it’s not the totality of your identity You can’t collapse it I mean this is part of the problem is that in some ways what I’m trying to do is impossible Right because I’m trying to re-enchant the world to the extent that you can no longer understand it To give you a better understanding of the world. So that comes in conflict at the point of your cognitive Load sorry and and what that means is that certain people are gonna have to give up knowing certain things and just give it over to somebody else May seem arbitrary but it but it’s actually it’s actually not and Bazzini is insisting art school resent Resentment as T laws. Well, maybe maybe I do have a small fantasy where I become quite wealthy I then go back to class when the grades don’t matter to get my masters and just torture our teachers But I don’t know that I’ll actually do it But you can in the right time and place under the right conditions and there’s nothing nothing wrong with that Ethan oh the music expert here That’s how it used to be back in the day composers would sell their compositions for people to play The only difference is that it wasn’t only one group playing the music, right? Yeah, the music was Yeah. Yeah, there’s just a handful of really clever composers and writers and stuff and Quincy Jones right Quincy Jones is known like everything Quincy Jones touch turned to gold. It was amazing It was like oh, it’s a Quincy Jones project project. Okay, it’ll be great and it was you know in whatever genre It was in too because he wasn’t he wasn’t like oh, I only do this one type of thing, right? We Timbaland had that too, but the problem with Timbaland is he wanted to become an artist and that’s when he You know can actually track the downfall of Timbaland, you know As much as people might think it’s a bit out of place for me to say Future sex love sound is is the goldest album of the 2000s Like you can’t get a better example of 2000s music than Justin Timberlake’s Album there, which is basically Timbaland album with Justin Timberlake singing on top like it’s it’s that simple. Okay, you can’t deny You can think over time in that particular person’s life in blend that The more famous success he had the more he wanted to be his own identity and that was his downfall. He was better Yeah identity T. Los purpose Allergies Physical capacity, yeah. Well, they’re all Yeah, we put archetypes Yeah, I wouldn’t put it that way Sally but okay, I see where you I see where your brain is What are you trying to say is embodiment? Or incarnation Yeah, I would I would put a much larger hierarchical diagram with archetypes and T. Los just below it and Identity below T. Los, right and then the embodiment is in the person and yeah, I do something if only I could draw I’ve always wanted to I can drive There was a time when I could draw exactly one thing and it was this Old man face thing with the old man hair and the whole that and it was really good good But it was literally building a drop. I spent like hours and hours and hours weeks and months and years So what’s on your board today what’s on the whiteboard? Oh You can’t see the whiteboard. There’s a compass there. There’s a bow and arrow pointing at the Sun There’s two people pointing up at the Sun and the compass is doing orientation Not mere direction because that’s what a proper use of a compass is is for all the end I thought it was a bird because I thought it was a bird because the Sun was like, oh, that’s what he’s trying to do Okay. Nope. There’s a there’s a both there is it spirit the spirit of hovering above No, it’s why you’re going Pirate ship we got it. Yeah. Yeah, pay attention. Yeah Well, this is what you know, Peter’s Peterson’s main Dad that he could Kind of broken He’s on a fifth wave if you want to if we want to keep that sort of aiming going But he’s completely broken from his original set of principles in some ways He used to talk about attention and potential used to talk about Things similar to what we got here channel. Yeah, and now Right because he’s talked about them in the scientific frame and that you can’t solve them and therefore when you talk about them in the scientific Frame you run into a problem and this is so so if you ask the Christians, they’re like, oh the answers You need to go to church. No, that will make it worse actually but but At least he used to talk about them and see I understand that no no No, the way you do this if you want to exemplify attention you use contrast That’s how that’s how you do it Right and then if you if you want to once you’ve exemplified attention if you want to move attention you just point Right and then that that solves that problem and and people don’t like they don’t they don’t understand that whole thing I do want to address this Ethan mark. Please show us your old man face, dude When I get in the shed someday and go through all the stuff I’m sure I have an old man face in there somewhere and I will but it’s in a box somewhere in a shed Over there right over there in the darkness somewhere. I’m trying to lay out how the individual or like how these things like have relationship to the person I guess and I’m trying to see if they Like are they subordinate or are they all relating directly? The board it’s all hierarchy Sally it’s archetype on top and then hero and then identity and then the embodiment The The thing that you remark Qualization purpose underneath that No, no leave out purpose purpose is beneath you. Okay, where is identity then? T-Log Identities below T-Los Right and then that’s the person because you’re gonna have multiple identities. So it has to be above you Bubble is video or old man drawing doesn’t exist. I love it. Just kidding. No, I I got it I totally got it. That was quite good. That’s that’s right in my area right picture. It didn’t happen. Yeah, that’s totally It’s totally proximal to the sort of retardedness that I engage in a regular basis much approved I Should try it I haven’t I haven’t touched I need a I need a seven millimeter pencil To do the 0.7. Mm. I have I’m sure I have one the shed. I’m trying to get all my stuff there. Oh This the same Nathaniel’s last week You have a camera you should be drawing first Archetype T-Los identity. What is this allergy garbage and then purpose at the bottom sure whatever I would put painted allegory if you want. No, it’s just I’m giving it a relationship with everything else. I Don’t stop doing that then you’re driving me nuts and making me want to throw you off the stream forever All right, and just allegory Change it to allegory. He’ll be all correct. Daniel is the person Personality the embodiment within the person No personality is not an embodiment Personality can determine a change of embodiment but what you’re doing with personality is you’re adopting a Perspective which is a stance right in relation to something Right and so the personality of being a father is different from personality being a friend or a husband right or a son because That’s a normal sort of set of relationships those personalities They have to change like you can’t you can’t be honest with your four-year-old The way you’re honest with an adult like it’s not possible and you shouldn’t do that, but this is not a desirable outcome Don’t do this, right? You know you can you can say you don’t want a military household and then always refer to your son is sir whenever you’re Telling to do something Not that I know who does that or anything, but you could It’s fine foster dignity in the youth. It’s freaking hysterical. It makes me laugh every time you do that We’re not doing that today sir, and I’m just like Good the poor kid like the trauma you’re creating Oh So yeah, I mean I think I think that look your your your Personality is your stance. It’s your perspective It’s how you’re approaching something outside of yourself based on the identity which again is based on the T loss, right? If you’re identifying as the character in the show severance your relationship to work is going to be broken Right, but that’s a function of you and not a function of work Because the relationship involves both this is where people have a problem they want control So they want to know what’s the one thing that I can do that’s gonna have the outcome that I want That doesn’t exist in any part of your life. Sorry And and when you think it does you’re either getting lucky or misunderstanding the situation entirely, right? And like a lot of people are like, oh, you know what? my spouse lets me do whatever I want and there and that’s that’s their expression of love and Therefore everything’s fine and then they get a divorce right Peterson talked about that Like they think everything’s fine and then bang there’s a divorce and they’re like totally shocked. Well, we were getting along fine We had no fights whatsoever. Yeah, that’s cuz the stuff was building up and and and you didn’t You you know, you weren’t able to to engage with that. Nathaniel that helps. Oh good I’m glad based on identity the difference between the two is very helpful. Well, there we go That’s what we’re all about making the different creations that help people The problem is it doesn’t necessarily help you resolve anything or do anything But it does help you gain an appreciation and it’s subtlety so that you understand different ways of looking at the world So you’re not confusing things like saying well really Everyone just does something for money and corporations only by other corporations when they know they can make more money It’s certainly not true. Okay Yeah In in the hierarchy we got archetype telos identity Throwing out the reality for so if I was trying to And would ask themselves is this a Like plausible relationship like who am I what am I up to what can I be doing? Yes That’s correct cool The problem I will I will I won’t say it is you almost will never be able to slip Put that question there at the border. You’ll almost never be able to solve it Yeah Well, also also the problem with that is you need to point them at the future I mean one of the clever things Peterson does is is re-enchant time by saying you are who you are now You were someone else in the past and you can if you could be whatever you wanted to be right and it’s like, oh wait There’s three perspectives on time. I’m like where I came from and what I was right who I am now And what I’m doing and what I could be doing. Oh, that’s different from what can I do? So yeah, you just need to probably better to just say who am I coming? Who could I be? You want to scare people right I Becoming a monster. Yeah, exactly. But that that is the thing though like you The level to which you frame a question To tell someone is Appropriate to the level of reaction that you need to a stir within them Well, some people you do actually need to shake them a bit in order if it’s literal, right? You need to give them a symbolic so it gives a rockin shoe that they have to walk With god can’t shake that Identifying with the wrong things. That’s All the way to the bottom are what Peterson was able to do with a lot of these things and I think if you just put Out unit to get your T los figured out that’s like impossible. So I have been trying to pick apart T los this whole time to like Okay Stay I agree how how could even and then the sorting it into questions sometimes works for me And like yeah, you might be good with it. Who could I be? But these aren’t stagnant. These are like the blossoming of a rose Because that is actually what life is like We’re not a group that We’re we’re a thing moving through time and it is the change that might actually make it worthwhile So yeah, it’s more like a skating trick or Yes, something like that. It’s a movement right and it’s a movement through time and space at the Music is um, yeah All right, Zini Jesse is a fellow rock in the shoe enjoyer, okay, I don’t I don’t know how true that is But all right, well look it’s been like three hours So I think I’m gonna shut this stream down and open up the live after party stream if you guys are willing so That’d be like a 10 minute I got I got 45 photos to edit so Oh, yeah, you’re what are you editing? I got some headshots Headshots corporate headshot Takes time And then next weekend although Sally maybe Mark has ended on he’s He’s a monologue on this point. So maybe in two weeks We could do a muppet stream if Mark’s not gonna be here. We could take over this timesleeve maybe navigating muppets My maybe I can subsconder Adam my hard times for recording are very nominal Yes, we understand but yeah, you guys are welcome to I mean I can facilitate and stuff I just can’t join in because I’m gonna be is this for the next weeks next two Fridays But yeah, we can set that up. I’m the way to do next to the fire after that To be oh, that’s perfect. If you’re not around and I’m not around then that’s that’s great But all right, I’m gonna jump off I’m gonna close this stream and open another one in like 10 minutes and anybody who wants to join is welcome And I hope somebody will join because that would be more fun. But if not, I will you know Bear it for a while on my own and then and then leave but yeah well, I will be back and whoever wants to come back will also be back and Otherwise, I will see you in like three weeks, unfortunately, but you know, that’s how these things roll. Maybe sooner Maybe sooner maybe I’ll do a midweek live stream or something If you’re here, you’re watching you can come on. It is not scary to come on and try and talk to people That was fun good, I’m glad it was fun. All right guys Well, if you if you’re willing I’ll be back on and anybody can jump in and just chat. It’ll be fine We don’t talk about T. Loose and talk about anything. So we’ll see you back again soon in just a few moments