Open Mic： ＂This Little Corner＂ is dead; long live the Peterson Sphere! (LABqbgqRA4A)

https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=LABqbgqRA4A

Alright, it’s time for just a little bit of light destruction. There’s been a little bit of chatter on certain YouTube channels and on certain Discord servers about a supposed TLC, which I remind you that ordinarily we don’t really talk about here. But I’m going to give myself a dispensation one last time just to put this issue to bed and to get my mature and developed thoughts on the issue out in the public sphere so that we can settle this once and for all. So just a little bit of recap. There are people who think that there is a constellation of YouTube channels, Discord servers and maybe a few other platforms. They speak about it. See, this is where we get in trouble. They speak about it as if it’s really one thing. They speak about it as if this supposed little corner of the internet is just one thing that we can track all of its parts, that we know what it is and what it does. But people are talking out of both sides of their mouth on this one because it’s continually like this tension, right? On the one hand, they’re speaking as if, oh, it’s definitely a thing. And then there’s this continual questioning, well, what is it and where is it going? Which should be your first indication that we don’t actually have a thing here. We might have something we can talk about, but it doesn’t rise to the level of a proper object that we can interface with and deal with. And so I’m going to take a little bit of Thomas Aquinas and see if we can apply it to this situation in a way that can clear up our thinking about this supposed thing, which isn’t really properly speaking a thing. So let’s talk about this. So Thomas Aquinas, he wants to know how we can use our language to talk about God. Is this possible? Is this appropriate? And if so, how do we do this? And he ends up saying, well, we can’t speak univocally about God, right? Where our words line up exactly with the reality that God is. Because that would drag God down to the level of our words. And I don’t care how good your words are. Your words are not good enough for God. They don’t meet the level of reality that he’s at. So we’re not going to go with speaking univocally. We don’t want to speak equivocally where one word means, you know, it means two different things. That’s just complete nonsense. That’s the realm of jokes and puns. And we can certainly make jokes and puns about all sorts of things. They’re not bad. But it is not appropriate for God. We want to say one thing about it. So how do we speak about this? Well, we can speak analogously about God. Our words tell us something about God with similarity and dissimilarity. Okay, that seems pretty simple, right? Oh, yeah, we can speak analogously about God. And while our words don’t capture the essence of God, they do tell us something true about that. So how do we go and get a pint? Well, not so fast because we have to apply a distinction, as any good tommist will tell you, we need to apply distinctions here. And so the first type of analogy that we’re going to cover is an analogy of attribution, where we link different things through one central concept. And so I made a little slide here. We’ve got the central idea of health. We all have a basic idea of what health is. I’m not going to explain it to you. And we could talk about physicians. Let’s say, just for the purpose of example, physicians who aren’t undergoing a malpractice lawsuit but are good physicians, are good at their job. We could talk about medicine as being related to health. We could look at signs of health on a dog, right? So a slick coat, a wet nose, and a wagging tail. And we’ve got a little red cross as a symbol of health. Now all of these, all of these are analogous to each other because they’re all related to the concept of health. But they’re all related to the concept of health differently. They all have different participations in the notion of health. So the physician is the formal cause of healing in another person. We’ll just say that. The medicine is an instrumental cause of healing. The physician knows what the malady is and applies the correct medicine to the person. The person recovers their health. The dog who is healthy possesses health, right? And we can see that in the slick coat and the wet nose and the wagging tail as signs that this is a healthy dog. And then the cross, the cross is a sign of health as a symbol, right? We use this to symbolize the idea of health. You’ve seen that all over the place. So all of these are related to the concept of health. But they participate in it in very different ways, such that this analogy of attribution is just sort of a loose coalition of scattered things around a central idea. Is that bad? Should we avoid analogies of attribution? Absolutely not. It’s a function of our language. It’s a function of our thinking. They are useful tools. But to talk about the physician as being the same thing as a wet nose on a dog, well, that’s just completely not correct. They’re vaguely related to each other. But their participation is so different that we shouldn’t imagine that they’re all part of the same structure. We definitely shouldn’t imagine that they all share the same telos. Okay, so that’s analogy of attribution. All of these different things are analogous to each other, but they participate in the idea in a different way. Here we’ve got the real king of analogies. And this is the one that Thomas Aquinas says we can use to speak about God, not equivocally and not univocally, but analogously. This is an analogy of proper proportion. We relate two things to each other, and we see the same pattern playing itself out in different things. So everywhere that you see a colon in our slide here, that is a sign of a relationship between two things. And we can see this actually plays out really well with the notion of fatherhood. The father begets the son. The father bestows his identity upon the son. The father is sort of the ground and the source of everything that the son is. We can see the same sort of pattern playing out in the founding fathers and according to the nations. It was the fathers who had this idea of this new nation, who laid the groundwork for it, in a sense begat the United States of America. We can see the pope as the father of the church. We call him the holy father. He’s got this sense of guiding and leading the church, taking the responsibility for raising up and protecting the church under his care. A good bishop should be a father to his priests, especially the younger ones, supporting them, encouraging them, showing them the right way, correcting them when they go wrong. And our first encounter with this hopefully is with our earthly fathers, teaching us how to be their children. And what is the real takeaway from this analogy of proper proportion is that it’s all a participation in the exact same pattern as it is in heaven, so it is on earth and on every level in between. We’re all participating in the same pattern, which means you could say that all of these things kind of point in the same direction. They all kind of have in an analogous way, not in a univocal way, in an analogous way, the same sort of telos, the same sort of goal. Just as the earthly father wants to raise his son up, so the heavenly father gives everything that he is and everything that he has to his son. The founding fathers want to build up a nation and have their citizens thrive. The pope wants the church to thrive, the bishop wants his priests to thrive. All of this is participating in the same pattern. What that means is that since the father in heaven is the source of all fatherhood, what we speak about fatherhood can be applied to him. So that’s how we use this in theology. Now we need to get to this supposed little corner of the internet. I’m promising it to you and the little ticker is promising destruction. So let’s move on here. This little corner, and so far as it exists, is all related to Jordan Peterson. I remember being at the Consciousness and Conscious Congress in Thunder Bay in 2022 and just marveling to myself, everybody is here because some Canadian psychologist couldn’t sleep one night and went and made a YouTube video. That’s why that’s how we all ended up here. What are the stinking odds? We all have this relation to Dr. Peterson, but we all participate in the public intellectual life of Dr. Peterson in disparate ways. For some people, Dr. Peterson was salvation for a desperate man. They found themselves collapsing, they found themselves falling out of control, and he was the one who taught them how to live, that opened their eyes up to things. Maybe opened their eyes up to the spiritual world. That wasn’t me. I was in seminary, you know, I’m not going to say that I achieved perfection, but that wasn’t me. I approached Dr. Peterson more as an intellectual curiosity. I was fascinated by some of the things he said, the way he explained things, but it was primarily an intellectual game for me. There could be some people who want to apply what he’s doing to my church. They see that he’s got a book of Genesis preaching, call it preaching I suppose. How do we get that many people to pay attention to what I’m doing? Some people like to say he’s a gateway to the alt-right. That’s how they’re participating in his public intellectual life. I don’t see that, but because there is no alt-right either. Some people see Dr. Peterson as an ally in the struggle against tyranny. I’ve heard people, even in this little corner, speak of him about the Kardashians. It’s like, oh yeah, now the whole Peterson brand, we’ve got Tammy Peterson, we’ve got Michaela Peterson, and they’re just building this family brand here. That’s what you see. That’s what you see. Some people just see him as a meme. Some people see a psychologist who’s turned into a political actor. They’re either really happy about that or they aren’t happy about that. There’s probably more here that I haven’t laid out on this slide. We’ve got disparate participations in the thoughts of Dr. Peterson. Which means they’re not all pointed at the same goal. What the man who was, we’ll say, saved by Dr. Peterson from drug addiction, from alcoholism, from a life of nihilism, what he’s going to do with the public intellectual life of Dr. Peterson is going to be very different than somebody who sees him as an ally in the struggle against tyranny. They’re going to relate to him differently. These different people have different ends in mind. They have different goals and they have different teloses in them. How can you all say that’s one thing? How can you say it’s one thing if one person in this little corner loves to see Dr. Peterson as a political actor, as an ally in the struggle against tyranny, and other people hate to see the fact that he’s gotten away from his intellectual and clinical pursuits and now has turned into a political actor? They’re at cross purposes right there. They don’t agree with each other at all. How can they have the same telloy? I have a suspicion and I’m not going to go any farther with this than it being a suspicion, but in terms of the other Catholics that I speak with in the Bridges of Meeting Discord server on the various live streams and all of that, I don’t see any of them ever really being like, oh, what is this little corner of the internet or how can I participate in it and where is it going? Because we’ve already got participation in a bigger structure. On every level of Catholicism, you’ve got a different participation in the same faith, in the same sacraments, and in the same ecclesiastical governance. The Pope receives the same Eucharist that I celebrated this morning. It’s the exact same Eucharist. We all sign on to the same creed and the same faith when somebody becomes a Catholic from a non-Catholic religion, or not, sorry, from another Christian denomination and we recognize their baptism. The formula for admission is, I believe and profess everything that the Catholic Church believes and professes to be revealed by God. Boom. And we also share ecclesial governance. We participated in this in different levels, but it’s all the same thing. So, we don’t, this is just my opinion, this is just my suspicion, but we don’t feel the need to create a parallel, universal assembly because we already have the Catholic Church. So that’s just, this is my opinion, you go ahead, you come on here, you can roast me, you can rage at me. It’s just what I’m thinking, it’s just what I’m thinking, right? And so, I propose, along with several other people in this space, that we’ve got a new name for what’s going on here, the Peterson Sphere. And that puts everything in the right frame again. It makes everything relate because we acknowledge that we’re all kind of orbiting around Dr. Peterson, but we are not doing the same thing as we do this. We are not doing the same thing. This is, we participate in the public intellectual life of Dr. Peterson in disparate ways. It’s not one thing, it is many things. Is that bad? Am I disparaging what’s going on here? I absolutely would not think that I’m disparaging what’s going on here. After all, there would be plenty who would say that I am participating in this, that I am adding to it by hosting my Sunday night live streams here. But I don’t think it’s one thing, and I don’t think we all have the same goals here. We all have disparate goals, and that’s not a bad thing. So talk about the Peterson Sphere. What I don’t want this to turn into is just a word cipher. We just stop saying this little corner of the internet and start saying the Peterson Sphere. What’s happening here is an aggregate of many different parts with no intrinsic telos. Nobody is guiding what’s going on. There is no head. Anyone can participate. There are no boundaries. And there aren’t really different levels of participation, at least not formally, so there is no proper structure. Therefore, this doesn’t lie to the level of a thing with intrinsic unity, but only as a being of reason which we relate to this central person. Is that a bad thing? No. Insofar as the Peterson Sphere exists, I’m participating in it right now. But we cannot get confused about our ontology and pretend that it is one thing when it is separate things. And with that, I know that on Jacob’s channel, they were live just a little while ago, and all of a sudden, all of them are now here, and they were talking about almost the same thing. So let’s fight! We came here because I said, and I do believe, since you are the only ordained priest, you should be leading this discussion. OK. Well, I’ve let off esteemed gentlemen, some of you that I’ve talked to before. What do you all think of that? By the way, at least some of you should be able to still stream to your channels. Christian, if you would like to do that. All right. I’ll get my snarky banner off so you guys feel a little more welcome. Leave the banner up. I honestly, so my thinking around this has been, and then I’ll shut up, is the way to do it is actually to do stuff, which is why for me, Fountain of Comfort has become how to make this a real thing. And hey, I mean, I was hoping I would get at least $1,000 in donations, and I did, which tells me that there’s people who care. And while that doesn’t mean that I think mental health is the most important thing of what you can call it, Peter’s In Sphere, you can call it TLC, you can call it whatever you want. It’s where I felt that I could make an actual real world impact. And so here in Los Angeles, like, we’re actually, I’m actually bringing it into a real life thing here in Los Angeles in the form of hopefully what will one day be a residential facility, which will provide at least some mental health services. That’s a telos right there. That’s a goal that you’re aiming at. Yeah, that’s fantastic. But didn’t, like, didn’t all the people who say TLC six times a day, like, kick you out and make you into pariah and… Who, me? Yeah. Vickit doesn’t get kicked out of anything. He leaves. Well, whatever. Yeah, I leave way before I get kicked out. Fair. It’s against my religion to go where I am not welcome. Not fair. Fair. But I mean, like, you were not welcome. That’s why I left. No, no, no, no, no, that’s fair. I think again, though, that kind of proves Father Eric’s point about there’s a bunch of people screaming about TLC and they actually don’t like the fact of what you’ve done. I think it’s great. Like, I like it. I think it’s fantastic. But they don’t like it for reasons, right? And whatever those reasons are. They, I mean, there’s definitely a certain people who want TLC to be Christian. And I’m not Christian. And I’m not going to be Christian. Well, I don’t even think it… I think it’s more fundamental. I think they just rebel against any structure, any authority, any boundaries, anything like that. I mean, that’s the pattern that I see, right? Because those are the complaints that they have, right? So they’ll do things like, well, this person is trying to lead something, even when that person’s not trying to lead anything, right? And then they encourage everybody to do their own YouTube channel, which I think is just the most insane idea ever. There’s already too much content for those people. I’ve been encouraging people starting their own YouTube channel. I encouraged Father Eric to stream more, didn’t I, Father Eric? I mean, I don’t remember a direct conversation, but I saw what you were doing and I wanted in on the action and you let me do it on your platform initially. So that’s a form of encouragement right there. Yeah, and certain people, but that’s not everybody. There is a difference. And this is what I would say is the difference, right? The people who scream TLC see no difference between encouraging good people who are going to do good work and be consistent and, you know, maybe have a structure, right? Maybe have a TLC from doing things versus everybody, right? Oh, right. Maybe everybody should try to do everything. OK, so yes, reducing noise and increasing signal is something I do, which certain people get very upset at. Yes. But that’s their problem. Well, the irony of some of what I’m hearing is the irony of it is that if I were to think of the more outspoken and popular members of TLC or Peer to Spear, they would all… I can hear you just fine, Christian. Can you not see me? I can see you too. OK, good. Don’t listen to Jacob. If I was to ask them to name who’s in TLC, Jacob, Mark, Father Eric, Chad, Grim, like all these names would absolutely come to mind. I don’t want in. Very funny. Yeah, I don’t know what their project is. But you’re in. And so I don’t want to be… No, but I’m not. Like, no, I’m not. Because look, at the end of the day, Christian, you know, I’m not going to be… Today, Christian, it is my sincere belief that one of those idiots is going to bomb a federal building. The FBI is going to come knocking on my door, and I don’t want to be associated with them. OK, that’s really what this is about. That’s long too late. You can’t tell me what your project is. You can’t tell me who’s in it. Anyone’s welcome in. Anyone can say they’re in, right? And so that’s the sort of thing that happens. And you can fight back on that all you want. I’ve been on the Internet a long time. This has happened many, many times. This exact scenario. I know people who who got called by the FBI because they were on forums and stuff with with people who either threatened to bomb federal buildings or actually pulled it off and fortunately they were incompetent, which is a plus, you know, and like nothing bad happened but like a bomb went off, you know, I mean, I know people who’ve set off mail bombs and stuff like, you know, I look you hang out on the internet, man, you’re gonna you’re gonna run into some people who are gonna be like, oh, I’m gonna go to the like, they’re here and and there’s more of them here per capita than anywhere else. And like, fair enough, I’m not like I hang out with some of these people. I’m not disparaging that I am saying though, you kind of need to be careful. And that’s why I haven’t, you know, until I insisted No, I don’t want to be associated with whatever it is you have that by the way, you know, I’m not saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you should be careful. I’m saying that you shouldn’t worry about what they’re going to do. That’s temperature and and temperature, which starvation how muchielle scientifically and etc. And this is from a really fast talk about capitalism. And this is definitely not stuffัthat you cannot explain to me what it is. I just don’t want to be associated with it because I have my own project. Right? And in my project and this look we went through this before. About eight, eight months ago? When do this eight months ago. Not anybody’s allowed on my streams. And not anybody can say whatever they want on my streams. My streams have a format. Maybe Jacobs do or don’t, I don’t care. Jacob can do what he wants. I support his I’m sad that I’m no longer able to stream on his channel, but whatever, that’s his choice. It’s not a problem for me. I think it’s great. He should make those decisions. Those are good decisions to make. I think all of that is good. I think trying to randomly include people in your unspecified project of unknown origin and unknown members is not good. And that’s the only disagreement that I have. Did we lose Cal? Yeah. He left without me doing anything. I didn’t kick him out. He hasn’t said anything. Yeah. He’s allowed to participate in that. Can somebody check on Cal and see why Cal may have decided to leave? Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with Mark. He knows that when you have both Mark and Jacob on a stream, no one else is getting the word in edgewise. That is not true. Cal, whenever he comes on my channel, not only have I given him the platform to do with as he wishes, I always try to make sure he gets her because Cal is one of the voices which I very much try to amplify. There are other voices I do try to shut up. Yeah. Yeah. Jason, you haven’t had a lot to say so far. Is there anything popping to your mind? No. No? Okay. I don’t know. Yeah. I’m just listening right now. I’m just basically just listening, trying to catch up, see where you guys are at. So this is an open mic. So I have my little opening rant. I felt strongly about this one. So I made some slides. But we don’t have to talk about that all night. We can talk about how awful the weather’s been. I think everybody’s getting something right now, right? It’s so- It’s 30, let’s go. It is so cold in Los Angeles. I think it was down in the 40s. Right. I hate California. I hate Californians. California should fall into the ocean. Lex Luther was right. Well, what is the- To church in feels like negative 30. I walked like maybe a block. Yeah. I mean, I could never, ever live somewhere that cold. But Christian actually had some things which he said on the earlier stream, which I kind of wish he would repeat. Sure. I’d be glad we do so. Yeah. So I had, yeah. So in the previous stream, I was mentioning how this little corner or whatever you want to call whatever this is or isn’t. The Peterson’s sphere. There you go. Brand new name. The Peterson’s sphere. There you go. The Peterson’s sphere. Or let’s make it even more meaningful and just call it the internet. But no, I was really like, I’ve personally been very positively impacted by who I understand to be some people who are related to this little corner of the internet in my real life in many different ways. So one way is I’ve developed some friendships and that have been primarily online. And that’s been great. They’ve fed into certain, let’s say like inclinations that I have that don’t get fed in the real world around me, maybe. But most importantly, I’ve gone through a lot of difficult stuff in my family over the last few months, really over the last six months. And some people in this little corner have been remarkably supportive and caring and generous. And it has really shown me the positive potential of things like what we call the Peterson’s sphere, this little corner, whatever. Or the positive potential of online communities in general. Online communities often get a negative rep for a lot of good reasons. But I have been tremendously blessed not only in my mind, not only in my heart, emotionally, intellectually, whatever, by this little corner since 2016, 2017, mostly lurker, whatever. But most recently, my mother passed away on January 7th. My father has been in a really bad financial situation because she had been hospitalized since September for a dual lung transplant. And he was there as often as he could be by her bedside at a hospital about two hours from his apartment. He’s a Mason, he would go to work all day, shoot over to the hospital, stay with her until they basically kicked him out of the hospital, go home, sleep, work, come back and see her again. He incurred a tremendous amount of financial burdens throughout the course of those three plus months that went on until my mother, unfortunately for us, passed away. And there was no way my father was gonna be able to afford anything like a funeral, anything stable over the next several months just because of all the expenses that he incurred. So I started to GoFundMe. The thought came to me and then my sister-in-law reached out to me. She said, hey, maybe we should do GoFundMe. I said, I was just thinking that, let’s go ahead and do it. I said, what the heck? Even if we just get a little bit of support, it’s better than nothing. And we have gotten just about double what we asked. We’ve been just, and some of the biggest donations have come from people in this little corner who I’ve interacted with like three times. I was just totally, totally blown away. And it’s not that I don’t have a really good support system in my immediate community, my in real life friends, my family, but it’s just financially, it wasn’t gonna be enough to help my dad get through the next good chunk of time. But now he’s well positioned for a while. Obviously he can use as much as he can get. I’m leaving the GoFundMe open until her service, which is this coming Saturday. But if we don’t get any more donations, that’s totally fine. As I said, we’ve already gotten more than we have, but my dad can use, he can really use like, I knew he wouldn’t even ask. Like he’s not even the type of guy that would go anywhere near GoFundMe. So I was like, and then when I told him, I told him the other day about it and told him where it was already. And he started crying with me on the phone. And this is a burly guy, Mason, tough guy, and he just melted on the phone. And that’s a good chunk of what the GoFundMe is made of is support from this little corner, the Peterson’s sphere, whatever. So I have to say an actual Mason, not a Freemason. Yes, yes, sorry. Yes, yes, a stone Mason, brick Mason. Yes, not a Freemason. Thank you for clarifying that because I’ve actually had questions about that. It’s like, oh yeah, especially in this little corner. I should clarify that, but. How is that different Christian from something you’d get from being part of a church or a lodge or any other sort of an organization or even just like a GoFundMe you did on the internet without knowing, like what’s the need to put a label onto something that doesn’t seem to have a commentelos? That’s really the question. Oh, I mean, well, me and my closest group of friends have like anything but a commentelos, but we come together when we need each other. Oh, then it’s not a common group of friends, which is fine. But like by definition, it’s not a common group. See, I disagree with you. No, Mark. What does having comment that makes you a group of friends? You can have a community. And I think actually oftentimes when the telos is unnamed or ineffable, that is actually what makes the community the most healthy. Oh, I absolutely agree with that. I absolutely agree with that. But that doesn’t exist in TLC at all. Like explicitly, they deny it anytime you try to do it. Right, anytime you try to say they have anything in common, they go, no, we don’t, no, we don’t, no, no, we’re all different, we all have our own YouTube channels. I want to understand why this is so important to you, Mark. I really do. I told you, because I don’t want to knock on the door from the FBI because some idiot who blew up a federal building or tried to associated themselves with me when I don’t want to be associated with them. There are people like on VOM, for example, I know for a fact, like, look, you get to understand. There’s a lot of backstory that I don’t want to air dirty laundry ever. I’ve been in VOM since 2017, don’t worry about it. There’s a lot of backdoor stuff going on. There’s a lot of projects they started that didn’t get finished because somebody firebombed them. So I know for a fact, because I’ve been told by the former person who ran VOM that some of the people going, oh yeah, Mark, it’s definitely in TLC have repeatedly called for me to be kicked off of VOM. Told Paul that he shouldn’t talk to me, et cetera, et cetera. And at the same time, publicly, they want to tell everybody, oh no, no, no, he’s part of our group. That’s deceptive, duplicitous, it’s a lie, and it’s pretty much evil. It just is. And I’m sorry to say that, but it is. And that’s not one or two people. So there’s something going on there. I don’t know what it is. I don’t care what it is because I’m a pragmatist. I’m not going to know somebody else’s motivations or what they’re up to if they’re involved in some grand conspiracy with the Freemasons or the Illuminati or the lizard people. I don’t care, okay? But that’s not good behavior, and I don’t like that behavior. And I don’t want to be associated with people who claim to be part of something and be engaged in that behavior. And I think that’s fair to not want to be around people like that in general and not want your name associated with them. It just seems like a bad idea to me and in my experience. And again, I have a lot of experience. I’ve seen this sort of thing before many times. This is not new to me. It does not end well. It does not go well. You may notice a certain pattern. Every time there’s this little attempt where BOM in general or any of the things around Paul Van der Klerk attack, certain people who have been absent for months start popping up again. And that always seems to go the same way, by the way. Look, it’s a pattern. It’s there. I’m not the only one that’s noticed it. Something’s going on. I don’t particularly care, but they can’t get their act together. And that’s fine too. I’m not mad that they can’t keep a Discord server together and they can’t get their community projects together. That’s all fine. I just don’t want to be associated with that level of either bad behavior or incompetence or rebellion or any combination of the three. That’s all. All righty. I had a good day and I want to keep that going by thinking positive now. Please. So Christian, here’s my bit is when people go around assuming that everybody has the same intentions as them, when in fact they don’t, that’s a recipe for disaster right there. And so that’s why one of our, I need to make a banner for this. At some point I will. One of our projects here is make final cause great again. We want to raise up, because that’s something that Peterson did. I don’t know if he even knew he was doing it. God bless him. But he was making final cause great again. What is your goal? What is your aim? What is your purpose? What sort of person are you trying to become? And when people think that they share a goal and they don’t, it’s gonna fall to pieces. So I just want to hold up the necessity of having at least, maybe not like a hundred percent, materialist perfect knowledge of what other people’s goals or intentions are, but watching what they’re doing and seeing what that leads to. Yeah, we got a little banner here. Is when you talk about these things as if it was one thing pointing towards one thing and it’s not, you’re gonna just get all sorts of trouble there, that’s what I think. Can I? Go ahead, Jason, go ahead. Well, what would you say is the final cause? Do you have something? Or I’m really sorry, I’m not trying to derail anything. I just really, I’m not trying to be disrespectful from not joining in either. I’m just like, just kind of listening. See what kind of catch up. I’ll just lay it out here, right? The final cause of Father Eric’s YouTube channel is to manifest the Catholic intellectual tradition and spiritual life in the world so that it is attractive to people and they join in on the goodness that we have here. I’m trying to make you a Catholic. I think the means that I’m using are appropriate. What? Yeah, sure. That’s my goal right here. Yeah, right, that’s my goal right here for this channel. What’s the Catholic intellectual feel that you’re? You just keep on showing up and you’ll learn about it, all right? Don’t worry, we don’t need to get that, Rome wasn’t built in a night. He wants you to be in communion with the pontiff of Rome. Well, I mean, this feels like if there’s a final cause, right now it’s pretty vague for him. That’s my intention. That’s my intention here, right? Okay. Now, if Jacob and I are supposedly a part of some transnational organization called TLC, we’ve got a serious problem. Because while Jacob shows a certain amount of respect to the Catholic intellectual tradition, he is not afraid to throw some devastating criticisms at it where he thinks it’s gone wrong. Okay then, well, how are we doing the same thing if while we participate in something common to us, the intellectual life of Dr. Peterson, we’ve met in real life a few times, I would like to say that we’re friends. Hopefully Jacob would agree. I definitely think of you as a friend. But we’re not participating in the same pattern towards Dr. Peterson. We’re looking at him and doing different things. So it’s like, how do we have one thing here within this umbrella term? It’s actually a bunch of different things, which is why I think it’s appropriate to think of it as we’re analogous to each other in terms of a connection to Dr. Peterson. But what that connection is, is disparate. The way we participate in the Jordan Peterson phenomena, his intellectual life, his public appearances, so on and so forth, is all very different. Okay, but Father Eric, I can give Attilos, which I believe explains what I’m doing and what you’re doing that both of us would agree to. This would be the first time I’ve heard it. And it would actually not include a lot of people that I would like to exclude, which is I want, the telos of my channel is ultimately for people to better understand the revelation of God on Mount Sinai taught by Moses. And I don’t think that’s something you disagree with. Well, I mean, so like we could take that idea, but like. You mean something different because you think that’s Jesus. Yes, yes. And I don’t think that’s Jesus. Which means that we’re not actually participating in the same thing in the same way? And that’s, but that’s part of the point of abstraction. I mean, you could talk about how, what you mean by being in communion with the Pontiff of Rome or the Jesuits are also trying to teach the Catholic intellectual tradition. I don’t think you’re doing the same thing, right? So. They kind of are. Really? Are you doing the same thing as the Jesuits, Father Eric? I’ve met some really good Jesuits. Really solid men. Yeah. Some really good Jesuits, so. I mean, do you think that everyone who says I. I’ll give you an example. I’ll give you an example, right? You can go to a particular diocesan website where they provide daily mass petitions every day of the year for free Microsoft Word download, right? Okay. Now, 100%, this is not a traditionally leaning priest in the United States who’s writing these things. But at least half of the time, I don’t have to cross them out and replace them with something else. Right? So it’s like, yeah, boy, are there some disagreements? There sure are. Are there some bad actors? Jesus promised us that there would be, but it’s not up for me, at least currently, to weed out the bad actors. That’s not a responsibility I have right now. And I could see even in people that I would think that I’ve got a fairly big disagreement with, it’s like, oh, they read the same gospel reading today. And that is a perfectly good Catholic petition, and I’m gonna read it out even though, hmm, yes, we’re not gonna pray about UN International Migratory Bird Day today. I don’t think so. And then I always think, gosh, somebody in the world actually read that petition out loud. Holy mackerel, okay. So there’s enough. Don’t you care about the migratory birds, Father Eric? I don’t. I don’t hunt geese, so I don’t care about migratory birds. I liked your original statement, although I’ll modify it for this stream. One way to think of it is, what do Father Eric and Jacob have in common? What do Father Eric and Jacob have in common, if not the ideas and the ethos brought about by Jordan Peterson’s rise on YouTube? Like, what else would it be? How else would they have met? Yes. I think that’s a stronger bond of communion between us than is Moses, because we’ve got such startlingly different takes on Moses. Yeah. Yeah, and I think that, you know, I think some of this is very much like the, we’ll say probably the biggest single criticism I have of Reveke with this garbage neoplatonism junk. It’s clearly not a thing. I’ve talked to- Okay, we’re doing a misrant. I’ve talked to a bunch of PhDs on this, like really well-studied people. There’s no such thing as neoplatonism, guys. The thing they have in common is Platonism. And like Dr. Lantern Jack, who has a YouTube channel, check it out, I love Dr. Lantern Jack. Well, okay. He talked to Reveke about this and pointed out to Reveke, everything he listed as neoplatonism is actually just Platonism. That’s what those people have in common. There’s no new Platonism. It’s just Platonism. It’s the same thing here. There’s no like beyond the Peterson phenomena. You know, we carved out our own little corner. Whatever, nobody puts baby in a corner. I don’t wanna be in a corner, right? It’s still, the thing they have in common is still Peterson. We can all be friends. I mean, I’m looking at the chat, right? And like Father Eric and Jacob are opposites. I don’t think we’re opposites. Can’t we all just be friends? There are people I’m not going to be friends with. Right, me either. Right? So like, there’s a reason why I think Father Eric of the Father Eric as a friend. And I don’t think of Claire Ka as a friend, right? It’s because I think that when it comes down to it, right now, while certainly we have our disagreements, there is so much that we agree on that is important that right now supporting Father Eric’s project, and I mean, that’s what I hope I’m doing. I wouldn’t be here if Father Eric didn’t think I was in some way supportive. Like, you have to, as Verbecky says, any two things are different and similar in an infinite number of ways. You have to decide what is the relevant ways in which we are different, the relevant ways in which we are similar, and what we are actually going to make happen. Yeah, and I think Father did a brilliant job of that at the beginning of this with his little monologue and his slides. I think he outlined it far better than I could. And that was great. I thought it was actually brilliant. I don’t use that word lightly or often. I use it here deliberately. I think that is correct. It is not news to me because obviously we’ve been having this discussion for quite some time, not only on my Discord server and like on my livestream last Friday, right? I talked about identity, which is a bigger topic, but also wrapped up in this, but also in person. Like we’ve talked about this for a long time, probably well over a year now. So this is not something done lightly. And it is something done by people with a purpose and the commentelos as a group. And it’s not just Father Eric and I, like I’ve bounced this idea, and as I’m sure Father Eric has, off a bunch of different people. And the Peterson’s sphere seems to be the right relevant answer. And if you have a different or better answer, that’s fine. There’s nothing wrong with that, but we haven’t heard a proposal yet. And this is the current proposal. I haven’t heard any proposal that I think works other than TLC, merely because TLC is what people have started using. And frankly, I don’t care. But I’ll say when it comes down to Peterson’s sphere, there’s two reasons why I don’t think it would work. First reason is Jordan Peterson himself is not aware and leading this effort. And to some extent, when you say Peterson’s sphere, people would think that he is involved. And if it gets big enough, he would want to be involved. Second, he probably would want to be involved and suddenly he takes over, right? The second reason is Peterson is controversial in ways that it just hasn’t been helpful for me to necessarily bring him up with certain people who are willing to be involved in what we are doing here in TLC. But they would never do it if it had Jordan Peterson’s name on it. That sounds good to me. It sounds like a great filter actually. I’m all in. But none of that’s ever gonna happen. It was a fantasy that he would take something over and he doesn’t want to, I’m sure he’s busy. That wasn’t my point. My point was when people hear Peterson’s sphere, they think that he is at the center. Gateway to the alt-right. Good. I just wanna add a couple thoughts. I don’t wanna cooperate with those people anyway, so I’m glad they’re filtered out. Sorry, Christian, go ahead. No, it’s okay. This is at least partially due to my own ignorance, most likely, but I’ve only ever thought of TLC as sort of a label of convenience and more akin to a geographic location than a conglomeration of will, right? So it’s like, do I like being associated with New York? Not particularly, but am I a resident in the state of New York? Yeah, I am. And then as far as the Peterson’s sphere, I’ve actually met, I would say quite a few, but really it’s a handful of people and what I would think of as this little corner who are in this little corner because of verveky or Paul VanderKlay or Peugeot and don’t really have a palette for Peterson. Like they’re really not, they really don’t like Peterson. That’s fair. Where did those guys come from though, Christian? I mean, verveky’s work never gets a view without Peterson first, ever. Ever. Peugeot never gets any visibility without Peterson, ever. You mean like historically, like because Peterson did what he did, the level was laid for awakening for the meeting crisis and because of the Pepe video, Jonathan Peugeot’s star begins to rise? Not just that, Peterson actually actively promoted both Peugeot and verveky. Yeah. That’s why they’re part of the sphere of influence of Peterson, which I think is the right way to look at it. Like, so yeah, look. And same thing with VanderKlay. VanderKlay’s channel was made by Peterson coming onto his channel. Sure, sure. Well, it was, yeah, it was made by his critique of Peterson being early on and getting in the searches on YouTube and all of that. So, no. And then Peterson came on his channel. And Pete, right. But they don’t have to have anything else in common, right? Which was the point of the beginning of this dream, which again, I thought that Eric laid out brilliantly. There is a difference in those things. And there’s a difference in the language. When VanderKlay talks about this, he keeps saying this corner and then quickly corrects to the corners within the corner. I don’t find that a helpful way to talk about anything. Like you’re just constantly splitting it up and splitting it up and splitting it up. I hate to harp on it, but boy, isn’t that a Protestant thing to do. Like just constantly splitting and splitting and splitting and splitting and splitting. You love harping on that, Mark. Don’t give me that. I don’t. But like man takes a pattern. As much as, perhaps, as much as, Mark, as much as you don’t want to be associated with TLC slash this little corner and you favor the Peterson sphere, maybe label, there’s people in what they would prefer to call this little corner who would not want to be associated with Jordan Peterson. All of them. Regardless of the fact that you are correct. All of them. Yes, almost all of them. Almost all of the people who go TLC, TLC, TLC, do that because they don’t want to be associated with Peterson. I agree. Therefore, Peterson’s an excellent filter. That’s a really good point. You’re just selling me more on my idea by the second. That’s actually, yeah, that actually has been selling me on it more because one of the things I think, one of the ways I think you make community is by actually having the poison pills for the people. Because I like to say I have not banned anybody from my Discord server and anybody who wants to be part of my channel can be, but I actively, very actively have kicked people, not out, but given, made it difficult, brought up the temperature. And it was like, look, if you’re here from Chosen People Ministries on my channel, you’re going to hear from me. That’s not gonna work. Yeah, something that I’ve just been thinking about is, I don’t want to say that there’s nothing. And I might’ve said that. That was probably me speaking a little too impulsively without thinking it through properly. So sorry about not being precise in my speech. And then this is why I think this notion of the analogy of attribution, right? Of having these different ways that we all participate in kind of the same center is really a helpful tool here. But, and so it’s not like I object to just calling at this little corner on account of, I didn’t get to pick the name. I don’t like the name. I think my name’s better. It’s when I see people misusing that name and putting things into the name that aren’t really there. And what I see that in is kind of one of these later slides. What is TLC and where is TLC going? And what do we do to guide and shape and mold this thing? That’s where I think the problems come in. And I think if we use an alternative terminology, Peterson’s sphere, we place what’s actually at the center in the center, it’ll encourage good thought and good communication that more accurately reflects the realities on the ground, rather than a lot of the confusion and frankly boring discussions. At least I find them boring. Maybe you find them great that happened on account of, yeah, on account of the use of the TLC moniker. You convinced me. I’m sold. Mark, we got a convert. Internet high five. Can’t do it. I’m dyslexic. I can’t do this. My dyslexia is betraying me. High five, virtual high five though, yes. Yeah, and I think the key is, I think they chose that little moniker because they don’t wanna be associated with the thing that they have in common. In the same way, I think Vervecki chooses neoplatonism because he doesn’t wanna admit that it’s platonism, which kind of explicitly, boy, if you read that last book of the Republic, the very last few pages, really does lead straight into Christianity being the right answer. He’s hardly unique in that though. What was that Emma? That’s not unique to him though. No, not at all. No, no, no, yeah, I mean, I’m not trying to attribute that to him. Here comes the Plato rant. People don’t actually read Plato, they read secondary sources about Plato and they don’t understand him. I wanna know, I know John read Plato. I don’t know what he read in Plato’s cave, but I know it’s not in the book. I don’t know what he read, but like, is it a hallucination? I have no idea where he got that from. It’s not in the book. Yeah, and it, yeah, it’s, we filter things out, right? And so who knows, but there’s a lot of people harping, especially now on neoplatonism and they all seem to have something in common, which is they wanna deny the Christian story for whatever reason. And it was funny because I talked to Lantern Jack about this years ago on Clubhouse because I was asking him, he’s got a PhD in classical philology. He doesn’t like to be called a philosopher, which I find funny. And he flat out told me, he said, he said, why does- That’s not a philosophy degree. Right, well, he said- That’s what I’m getting. He said, why does anybody care about neoplatonism? Christianity crushed them, they lost. That’s pretty much what he said. And I was like, oh, I didn’t look at it that way before I guessed you’re right. Is it to be crushed him or that we ate them? I mean, I was about to say the same thing. I’m not sure we crushed them, we might need them. Well, yeah, that’s my terminology, but then again, I’m a little bombastic in case you hadn’t noticed. I don’t know, I think eating is almost more forceful. I mean, this comes into a problem with naming things chronologically as well, right? Yeah. Like think about how utterly stupid a name is that is postmodernism. Or modernism. Or modernism, right? But it’s worth with postmodernism because it’s like, yeah, that’s what’s happening after now, which I guess it’s the philosophy of the future. Like what are you doing, man? Just stop. Exactly. Get some help. Well, we haven’t had any good names since. Well, we haven’t had a good, well, because we went with modernism. By the way, just in case, Navigating Patterns is a great video on that. Modernism-wise, it’s a terrible name, it’s a terrible label to use. And that’s pretty much the gist of it. Hey guys, I just wanted to say, I gotta hop off in a second here, but again, I just wanted to express gratitude for the geographic digital space, occasionally known as this little corner, and specifically a bunch of the individual members of that community for all the support, both spiritually and financially over the last few months. And let’s bring the good stuff from this space into the real world. All right, take care guys, thank you. What’s your mom and dad’s name? Oh, my dad’s name is Henry. He goes by Bucky, but his actual name is Henry. And my mom’s name was Brenda. Okay, I’ll keep them both in my prayers. Thank you so much, much appreciate it. And you, Christian. Thanks for coming on. God bless. I’m gonna head out too, guys. Sorry. I would love to eventually maybe talk to you more, Father Eric, at some point ask you about Catholicism, but. Every Sunday night, 7.30 PM. Okay, well, yeah, it seems like the conversation kind of on something else. So I don’t want to derail it or anything, but. You can derail the conversation. I don’t know much about that. Yeah, yeah. It’s all right, I gotta go. That’s all right, you guys keep going. All right, have a good night. All righty, very good. Emma, how’s that blanket coming along? I’m finding it off. I’m so excited. This project has been hanging over me for three and a half years. I couldn’t bring it anywhere because it was almost five feet long. And it wasn’t really fun to work on in the summer because it was almost five feet long and a blanket. I’m so excited right now. My goal was to finish this by the time I got married. That didn’t happen. That actually sounds like good news. I don’t know, like you could take it. Yeah, I decided not to delay my wedding to finish this stupid blanket. Yeah, Mark and I met Colin. He gets our thumbs up. He’s good people. Yes, Colin’s good people. I haven’t met him, but he is good people. The Peterson getting close. My sister would be more qualified for that than me. She does the crocheting, crazy crocheting. You could do a lot with yarn. When there was a knitting circle on BOM, that’s when BOM had its golden days. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, there was this dream, not too long ago, talking about this. And that was rather good. And actually Chad nailed it, right? When Joey was there, there was a spirit to BOM. Because he kicked people out. Oh, there were lots of reasons. There were lots and lots of reasons. But Joey moved on for very good reasons and he’s doing great. So I’m happy for Joey. He got his bridge and he made it to the other side. Good for him, because that was always the point of bridges of meaning. So good for them. Nick, that’s not fair. We’re not burning bridges of meaning. But when Joey left, so did I. Yeah. There is nothing keeping me there. I don’t know Dennis. I don’t know what’s going on there. And yeah, it is what it is. So Emma, what’s your favorite part of the show? What’s going on with the TLC Bible? I knew you were gonna bring that up. I intend to start working on it this semester, possibly this week. I’m getting a lot of, I’m doing my semester schedule and getting a lot of things like going in order. I made Father Eric a promise that unless he thinks it’s a good idea, once we’re finished with it, I am not going to support publishing it. Cool. That actually gives me a lot more motivation to work on it. I will not support it unless Father Eric gives his nail up step. Because part of it has been like. Yes. Yes. I’ve never given any kind of sign of approval of that. Yes, you did not give a sign of approval. But I did say, I did ask you, is it possible that we could do it in a way that it wouldn’t be offensive? I would have to see the final product. Yes, I guess that’s how the conversation did go. That is how the conversation went. Yes, I mean, I think it could definitely be horrible, but I also think it could actually be good. And those are the fun projects. All right, now, okay then, you’ve got this floor. Try and sell me on this little cat’s Bible. Okay, so one of the major problems with trying to translate the Bible for people who just, they’ve never opened a Bible before, is you hand them a Bible, and if they’re serious about it, they will start probably at Genesis, hit a bunch of begats and stuff. And I think that a humorous take is the only way you can actually abridge a Bible that isn’t completely sacrilegious. Because- I’m not a fan of children’s storybook Bibles, got it. I’ve never seen one that, I’ve never seen an actual, and frankly, no, actually a children’s storybook Bible is a very similar idea, I think, but you’re not gonna get an adult to look at a children’s Bible. That is true. Right? That is true. So something like, you know, if you’re going to abridge it with something funny, and then a bunch of people had kids, right, or something like that, I think lolcats could actually do that in a way that isn’t sacrilegious, but is interesting. Alrighty, Jacob, so here’s the million dollar question. What does the lolcats Bible accomplish that the Lego Bible has not already accomplished? I haven’t seen the Lego Bible. I think your project’s already done. It’s not image-based. I heard it was really bad. Okay, I saw like four pages of it, but. Yeah, I don’t think your thesis holds very well, Jacob. I mean, I get your point, and actually I think your point is correct. I don’t think your thesis holds. Have you ever heard an episode of Father Mike Schmidt’s Bible in a Year? Yeah. No. That works for a lot of people. I mean, I don’t think it works for Meaning Crisis people probably, but it definitely seems to work for Crisis of Faith people pretty well. Yeah, so basically like Father Mike, he does his super fast reading of whatever the selected Bible passage is, and a lot of details for a lot of people, they just miss, they just miss it, goes right past them, and that’s okay because you’re not ever gonna get the, you’re not gonna get the whole thing in a year, and people who don’t expect to get it, who expect to get it in a year, and they just won’t. But he also gives a little interpretation at the end of it. So it’s like Bible in a Year, he does kind of three passages, and then he links them all together with some teaching. I remember the only time I ever listened to it, my parents were doing it, and they would do it during supper, which is a very monastic way of doing things. I’m sure they invented that accidentally because certain things, listening to a reading during meal times, it just makes sense. And it was Genesis chapter 19. That was the, and anybody who knows, anybody who knows the book of Genesis knows that’s where all the wild stuff happened in Sodom and Gomorrah. And he’s just like, yes, yes, there’s just a lot of brokenness, brokenness in God’s humanity, when the lot and his daughters, look it up, Mark, look it up, actually read that part of the Bible. Your eyes will turn and you’ll see it. Your eyes won’t turn into saucers. But when I was in eighth grade and I read that, I was like, what? So anyway, I don’t know. I think, that’s what I think. Homilies, I think homilies and explanation does it done. I don’t know. At this point, I do wanna see how it turns out. So I will be trying it, but I’m not sure it’ll. I’ve been on a good streak of finishing things I started a while ago. Awesome. Good news. Well done. I’m gonna head off. Thank you, Father Eric. Be well. Yeah, yeah. You take care. Andrew. Andrew. What’s Andrew doing? I had like fucking three minutes at once. I watched the language on that. Why would you do that? I’m sorry, Father. I’m sorry, Father. Oh yeah. It’s Corey. Corey. How’s it been, man? Hi, everybody. Oh no, Jacob left. He did. Oh no. I can tell you’re coming. Yeah, that’s probably it. So I tried to get him to read a book that was written by Orthodox Christians and I don’t think he liked it very much. I don’t know if he’s actually read any of it yet, but I think he’ll like it if he actually starts going through. Sometimes I know the contents of a book before I open it up and I don’t like it. Like that’s happened. Yeah. How you doing, Corey? What’s going on? I am well. Tired. New job is fun. Yeah, lots of good stuff. Three kids, lots of building new relationships in our current community, which is fun. In real life, so spending a lot less time on internet life. Slowly trying to put together a conference, kind of maybe, hopefully. Now, I’ve spoken to several people who can be speakers. Now, I don’t want to violate any NDAs or anything like that, but what can you tell us? Man, I can tell you that it’s still very early in the process and it’s basically all just me trying to put it together, so it’s moving slowly. Biggest things that I’m trying to figure out now are solidifying location, which we’ve got a place in mind close to where I’m at, but it’s a camp, which means it’s gonna include lodging and food in the tickets, which is making it more expensive. And so I’m trying to basically figure out what kind of a conference we want this to be, whether we want to try to make it. You don’t have a Bible camp subsidized by an evangelical church that you can make use of, huh? Not so much. I think that’s how convivium ended up working out. We were 100% out of Bible camp. And I bet you there was money from the local church going into that place, keeping it running, keeping the costs down. That’s how these things work. That makes sense. The place I’ve got is similar, but it’s, we’re trying to figure out what we want the telos of this thing to be. I will say I’ll take more expensive tickets with included food over seemingly less expensive tickets, but you have to figure out food constantly. And it usually ends up being more expensive. So that’s true. And I think that’s probably the direction we’re still gonna go with, but I don’t want the ticket price to scare people off. I’m trying to get people to come to this who have never been to an in-person event. The people who have participated in the live streams are the ones who self-select already, will travel to California to go to an event, versus some little outreach. Called out, admittedly. Travel. No, that’s great. I’m looking forward to finding the telos. I can’t wait to hear what the telos is gonna be of the- So I can tell you what the theme is, that I think assuming that the speakers want to agree on it, is storytelling. It’s kind of a center on storytelling, because there’s lots of different directions you can come into that from and exit it. There’s lots of in-scape that you can explore, if you like. That’s a fancy Ted word right there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I could sort of- Envivium words. There’s the idea of, in the Peter Sonian sense, that reality consists of narratives. Honey, I’m home. There’s the universal history sense of like, trying to make sense of where you fit into the grander story. There’s the sense of just how fiction and storytelling has been on the periphery of all the stuff that we’re doing generally. Lots of storytellers participate in whatever this space is called. Peter Sonian. Oh, got it for you. Yeah, I still, I don’t have any solid- Don’t worry about it. You just trust me on this one. I don’t know. I don’t know. Let’s see. Listen to Father. Listen to Father. Listen to Father. Yeah. And then, you know, the- You’ve got a little bit of classic play-by-playism right here. There we go. Very well. I submit. The one thing is that if I run around attaching myself to something called the Peterson sphere, I have to delete all my YouTube everything, all my appearances at some point to get a job, probably. Don’t attach yourself to it. You don’t have to. Well, is being here not attaching myself to it? I talked to Paul VanderKley. Be at peace. This is that whole thing. Like, you know, can I talk to Paul VanderKley or are they gonna drag me into BOM again or TLC or whatever? Because I’m like four seconds away from never talking to the guy. Like, seriously, because I’m just like, if you guys wanna use that as your criteria for dragging me into your group, then I’ll sacrifice the friendship. It’s like, really? It’s that big a deal. Because that’s what they keep using. I’m like, if I can’t talk to him or you’re gonna drag me into your group, then I won’t talk to him anymore. But with the Peterson sphere, you don’t have to talk to Jordan Peterson to be, you know, to associate with the movement. It’s my main issue with it and I don’t have the words for it yet, but it narrows too much. Like, are we trying to make Peterson the telos of what we’re doing because if it’s in the name of it, then, you know, there’s some of that that goes along with it, right? Like, there’s something going on here that he started. I agree with you that he is the initiator for a lot of this. And a lot of it even implicitly. I think there’s more than that. He’s revealed something that’s already been going on, like, steeper and more encompassing than, you know, he gave a lot of people to kick out the door, but I think what people have in common is that they’re doing the stuff that he said to do, which is actually, you know, well predates him, right? Like, they’re united in trying to figure out what the truth is and remain loyal to it, whatever it is that they discover, which is a little bit less. But they wouldn’t have discovered any of that without him still, right? It still explodes with him. You could say that for lots and lots of different people who are discussing this area. No, no, no, no, no. Actually, I don’t think you can. Like, he’s very unique in that way. And like, if you understand some of the backstory, like I was mentioning some of this in the chat earlier, like, it’s not that, it’s not merely that Vervecky’s work doesn’t have any traction without maps of meaning and all that coming out first. It’s actually Vervecky doesn’t get a YouTube channel. And that has more to do with the fact that they’re both at University of Toronto and they’re both well-known professors. And the guy, or one of the guys who did the early Peterson videos at UFT for Peterson then did the same thing for Vervecky and convinced him that it was a good idea, right? So there’s all this going on in the background. Yes, your framing works for Vervecky, but how many other people have been brought together in this who have already been talking before Vervecky ever came on the stage, before even Pajoe or, you know, this is, what was the wisdom channel that was going on for a long time? I don’t even remember what it was called. The Rebel Wisdom? Yeah, the Rebel Wisdom thing to me seemed to- That came out of Peterson. That came out of Peterson. That’s the thing, like all the stories so far that I’ve heard, actually all of them, and I haven’t heard all the stories, all the ones I’ve heard go through Peterson and they started Peterson, all of them, mine included. And like, you know, I’m one of these people who says, yeah, Peterson is nothing new. There’s only two things Peterson said that were ever actually interesting to me. And the only reason they were interesting is because, like when I read Taleb, they were things that I knew about that I’d never heard anybody else talk about. And I was like, oh, I knew about that. No one else has ever talked about it. This is kind of interesting. So it’s not like I’m like, oh, Peterson brought up this new language and new whatever. I’m not like that. And I’m not saying that you’re like that. I agree with what you’re saying in a sense, but what I’m saying is naming something gives it its own direction. Like, do we want it to always be the case that this conversation originates from Peterson? We need to move beyond him. I mean, that’s what the sphere does, right? The sphere does that. I mean, that was the point of this. I mean, this is why I think Father Eric’s presentation in the beginning here was so brilliant because he actually gives you that distinction very clearly between those two things. I’m not sure he caught the beginning of it, but we’ve got analogy of attribution, right? Health, we’ve got the physician, we’ve got medicine, we’ve got the signs of health on a dog, and we’ve got a symbol of health. They all have this idea in common, but they participated in it in different ways, right? And that’s a weak form of analogy. It’s not unreal, but it’s weak. We’ve got analogy of proper proportion where the same pattern happens at each level of participation. So the father begets the son, just like an earthly father begets the son, just like the founding father begets the nations, just like the pope doesn’t beget the church, but he cares for it, gives it proper rule, just like a bishop ordains his priests and looks after them if he’s a good bishop. They all participate in the same pattern on different levels of reality. And that right there gives you one thing, fatherhood, that could be spoken on many levels, whereas an analogy of attribution gives you many things that have one property in common. And so I think the only thing that we have here in this little corner is Peterson, turns into an analogy of attribution, but people that participate differently, they have different ends in their participation. So you’ve got people whose salvation for a desperate man, other people, he’s an ally in the struggle against tyranny. And both of that’s fine, it’s not bad, but it turns into a bunch of different things rather than one thing. There’s a 32nd version of my presentation. I might’ve been, so I’m not speaking clearly, and this is why I’m like, again, I don’t have fully formed language for this, but I’m not disagreeing with anything that you just said. I think that it is more accurate in an ontological sense to use that term, but naming something is also a sub-creative act. It’s a thing that causes things to move in a certain way in the future as well. So by putting a name to something, even though it might be in some ways a more accurate framing, it’s also a narrow rising and directing framing that tends to cause things to move in a certain direction. TLC is more on-compassing and less directive, less controlled, which is exactly your discomfort with it, right? Because anybody, it’s almost too open in a sense. Like you can be a drag. It’s not, they’re explicitly using it to dissociate from Peterson. That is the only people who use it, use it because of that and use it for that reason. Well, I think the people- And so it’s explicitly an identification. I don’t know if I’d go that far, Mark. Some people just use it because it’s a term they’ve heard and it’s describing some phenomena that they want to, I’m not gonna describe that level of attention to them. Well, that’s fair. I think a lot of people use it just because it’s athletic. Not everybody that uses it uses it with intention, right? Some people use it out of convenience. I agree, that happens with everything. But also the people that push this idea and try to say who’s in and who’s out and why, and oh, you talked to Van der Kley or you’ve been on his live streams and therefore you’re definitely part of our group. I don’t know why that would be true. Like why, because Paul and I are friends, should I automatically be dragged into something that he didn’t name, he doesn’t lead, he doesn’t wanna lead, and he admits have corners of corners, which to me makes no sense. Like again, every time he says this little corner, he said, and don’t forget, there’s corners to the corner. Now you’re invalidating the thing you just said, like explicitly in language. What it is is it’s almost like they’re trying to create a self-similar fractal there. Self-similar fractals being like this right here in analogy of proper proportion. There’s another way of saying a self-similar fractal, but without having the goods to back that up. Right. So yeah, I don’t know. I think when people talk about an aggregate of things that don’t have intrinsic unity as if they were one thing that has intrinsic unity, I think that leads to people, and I’m rehearsing some of the stuff that we went over already, but Corey wasn’t here. Corey’s my friend, so I’m gonna help him out. When people assume they’re doing the same thing, when they’re not actually doing the same thing because they have different intentions, then that’s a recipe for a disaster along the way. And we had Jacob on the stream earlier, and Jacob and I don’t have the same intentions because I want people to encounter the Catholic tradition, see its goodness and beauty, and become Catholic, and that’s not what Jacob’s doing. I don’t think what Jacob’s doing is bad. His fountain of comfort thing could end up being some good spiritual and psychological care for people that need it, right? Like, I don’t know, but it’s not what I’m doing. So I don’t see how… What else do they have in common? We did go to a Mexican restaurant together. How did that happen? He came to Wapiton. How did that happen? Yes, we met at Bridges of Meaning Discord server, and he was immediately interested that I was a Catholic priest because he appreciates a good hierarchy. He does. Well, and how did the Bridges of Meaning Discord server start? Does anybody know? It started as the Jordan Peterson Meetup Group, and that’s actually the genesis of the Bridges of Meaning Discord server. Just a little history there. Kind of matters sometimes. I think it’s interesting that you, Father Eric, and Mark have been sort of seeing people trying to ascribe basically a greater level of cohesion to what they call TLC that I’ve picked up on. I’m not saying it isn’t there, I just didn’t notice it. And I think that’s part of where this is coming from, is that it’s not just a question of, where this is coming from, and maybe, I don’t know, Corey, if that’s also maybe tripping you up. Because it took me until tonight to see the difference between the Peterson sphere and TLC, and a lot of that is because I went back and watched some of this week’s PBK videos about the whole thing. And I kinda see it now. That makes sense, I don’t know if that made sense. Yeah, I haven’t watched any of the stuff that’s been this week, I’m a little behind. But what you said resonates with me, yeah. And I think, yeah, I don’t know. I think that the concerns that Father Eric just laid out, I am 100% on board with. I think there is a lot of naivete out there, which is, and a lot of different efforts, maybe moving in lots of different directions. I don’t think it is fair to call TLC a thing that is unified in the sense that we’re talking about. There might very well be some people who are using it in that way. I didn’t think of it in that way, and maybe that’s just me being naive. My previous argument would have been, is anyone saying that? I don’t think anyone’s saying that, but then I watched more stuff, and I was like, okay, I guess there are people saying that. Yeah, I don’t, I like Mark, don’t like airing out dirty laundry. So I’m not gonna start accusing people of speaking in a certain way about TLC, except for VanderKlay, because he’s got a big profile, and he does it. So, Pastor Paul, I want you to watch this and change your mind and be colonized by me so I can be correct. And give glory to God and all that stuff, but me being correct. Even better. Don’t there need to be lots of, do we need to name the subdivisions then? Because I think just renaming it Peterson Sphere doesn’t get you that far in terms of a layman’s concern. It’s not supposed to. Don’t the subdivisions already have names? It’s either the name of the YouTube channel, or it’s like the Catholics, or the Jews, or the Protestants, or the Grail Country Universalists. Yeah, I think that’s the, again, yeah, you’re gonna watch the presentation beginning of the stream. It was really good. The difference is in the sphere, you can have a different attitude. Everybody who watches Peterson, even now, doesn’t watch him for the same reason. So you can’t give them all the same telos, but you can say they’re all connected in that they watch Peterson. And those are two different ways of thinking about it. And again, when you hear Pastor Paul, my friend, Pastor Paul talk about TLC, he always says, and then there’s corners within the corner. So it sounds like he’s struggling with that very issue. How do you identify the unity and still acknowledge the things that aren’t unified about them? And I would say you don’t, right? And you name the thing they have in common, and you say it’s in common. Did we just watch history get made right here? We made history. That’s what we do in the Peterson Sphere, Corey. We make history. I still need to weave all the Lucenten, but it is five feet long, very cabled, because three years ago, Maeve was insane. And it’s done. Wow. I’m the winds. Yay. I gotta make that scroll across the bottom. Yeah, there you go, yeah. Ted, good to see you, man. Can you hear us, Ted? Good to see you all too. Or, digital simulacra of you, just to remember those things. Am I coming through at all? My internet’s… There you are, there you are. There was a little delay, but now you’re back. I’m gonna see, just a second. I might have to do, I might have to do no video. I’m gonna try to do this without… If I remember last time I said, I’m gonna try to do this without… If I remember last time I did this and I managed to accidentally turn myself into a solo, hold on. He managed to delete the wrong person from the stream. He only deleted a simulacrum of himself, so it’s okay. Okay, I’ve figured it out. Excellent. Yay, well done. Here in the south, even the internet is freaking out. You’ve got snow coming your way, Ted. You should be freaking out. We have snow, we have like two inches of snow and so the world is shut down. Yeah, yeah. Everything is over. I don’t know. How many clouds do you think you guys have in your county? Because I guarantee you, in my county in North Dakota, we’ve got about 100. Probably. Is one of them clouding? You probably have as many people in your county as you have in your entire state, too. Probably. Man, I can’t make this work. It’s just not happening today. Uh-oh. Really big delay. I’m sorry to hear that, Ted. Man, bad internet. Bad internet. Bad internet. Bad internet. Bad internet. Bad internet. Bad internet. Bad internet hurts us all. We’ll take your best, but I’m just gonna go ahead and then we’re just gonna end it there. Yeah. Got a five second delay on his internet feed. That’s too much. That’s like Earth to the Moon, Apollo 11 mission right there. You need a real sharp communication protocol to make that work. Yeah, what do we have to fix is internet? Send someone out there to fix Ted’s internet. It’s three inches of snow. Who could make it anywhere? Three inches of snow is nothing. We don’t actually have that much. Yeah, you were north of it, right? You’re getting all the air we warmed up for you. It was negative 35 wind chills this morning, which means by the time it got down to you, we had warmed it up by five degrees. You’re welcome, Emma. What are you whining about? It’s appreciated. What are you whining about? Sally Jo’s water shut off because it was negative 40, the temperature, not the wind chill. Actually, she said the temperature got down to negative 54 or something inconceivable to me. I think that was the wind chill. I don’t think that was this. She said it got really cold and I was like, what? Yeah, her water didn’t work for like six hours and I was like, what the hell? And I’m like, you wanted me to move there? I’d be dead. I’d be dead just knowing it was that cold outside. That would take me out for sure. It gets under 70 and I’m like, a little cold here. You’re an old man, Mark. No, no, no, that’s the illness. That happened long before the age. That was the illness, the illness really. I’ve gotten better though. So yeah, beetroot juice. That’s the key. Powdered beetroots in your smoothies, very important. Okay. That works. Mark, health influencer. I know a lot about health, especially digestive health. So yeah, if you need to know anything about autoimmune disease or digestive health, just ask me. I probably have researched it. But the thing is, Emma, the important part here is you win. So that’s what matters. You’ve got a blanket that’ll keep Mark warm if he ever had it. In theory, it could keep Mark warm. Is it for somebody? So, you know the idea of a trousseau? A trousseau or a hope chest was something you would start traditionally like years before you got married as like prep, back when you had to physically by hand make everything that you used in your household. So it’d be full of like blankets and sheets and tablecloths and linens and everything. And you would work on it like your whole life from the time you learned to sew until you got married and you would take it with you to establish your new household. And I wanted to do like a mini symbolic version of that. And that’s what this blanket is. So it was, that’s why the idea was I would finish it by the time I got married because it was like one thing that I was producing for my new household. And then Colin showed up unexpectedly. No, it was after we were engaged. Oh, the knitting took longer than you expected. The knitting just took longer than I expected. And then I kept getting distracted by other projects because I’m like that. And so now two and a half years into this marriage I finally finished my trousseau blanket. That’s great. I know about hope chests. I didn’t know that the other fancy French word which is hysterically ironic, I know. You should be into the fancy French words. That’s your heritage. That’s my French words, matin. That’s it. It’s my aunt. Sure. That’s the most Frenchy word I get right there. And the French would be horrified, right? Cause it’s French Canadian and they pretend like they don’t understand it. Cause they’re snobs. Mostly just the Parisians, I’m sure. Actually the whole country might unite against Canada though. They might, I can see that happening. Yeah. Even the Southern Frenchies might be like, eh, bridge too far. And the French Canadians, no problem understanding French. So I don’t know. You tell me which is better. I like being in America. I like being in the United States. I like being in the United States. I like being an American. It’s good. It’s good that we are here. Yeah. My grandfather liked it too. He was very big on, even though he would regularly sing, Oh Canada. So yeah. It was always, it was always America first with him. So he was very happy to be here. Yeah. Well, I stopped by to say hi and it’s good to see you all. But good to see you. I’m gonna head over and start moving towards the bed. Good idea. I’m gonna email you Corey, by the way. So you’re gonna get invite to some documents. So. And I’m gonna see Corey at the end of February in Tampa at the symbolic world conference. Awesome. Luckies. Yeah. Yeah. This is what I do for vacation at most. Like go to these conference with all my internet friends. I wish I could go to that one, but it is not gonna work out with the school schedule and the using spring break to go skiing with my grandparents instead, which is a good thing to do as well. Definitely a good thing. It’s been a while since I’ve actually hung out with my grandparents for a long time. So. Good, good. If any of you northerners can spare that snow that you’re gonna ski with, send it down further this way. It’s supposed to freeze tonight, but I don’t think we have any precipitation, which is a bummer. That is a bummer. I’m sure the state of Texas is happy. Well have fun with your winter down there. Yeah. I’m gonna take what I can get. I hope none of your pipes freeze. Winter where the air doesn’t immediately hurt your face. They had to send out like a mass notification to the entire state. Don’t forget to drip your faucets and like all this stuff. This thing that appears on the ground in the morning when it’s cold is called ice. Don’t eat it. Don’t drive on it. Like it’s. Don’t eat it. I don’t know. Why don’t you just bury the water pipes under the frost line? What’s a frost line? Yeah, how do you know the frost line? You just dig down there and you could see where the frost is. Even an idiot like me could see it. All right. You guys have a good night. Look forward to your email. You too Corey. We’ll see you. Oh yes. Oh. Never liked that. There we go. That’s better. Three people. Three people you gotta do the window view. Yeah, the three really skinny people. Well, well centered. They have to be well centered on their cameras. Even still, I think it’s a little too. You know, just Phil Collins album covers. Yeah. They were all just pictures of his face. And I get that he had a bankable face in those days because he was huge, but like, I don’t know. You could have like one album cover be your face and then like have another album cover be like a bomber flying out of Egypt, you know? And then it’d be the out of Egypt tour. You need cool art for your album covers, Father Harris. Oh yes. Yes. That’s what you need. Did you show that to me when I was down at your house? Yeah. Is that signed? Yeah. Yeah, I didn’t have them in the frames. No, no. Yeah. I got them signed by Roger myself personally. It was awesome. Nice, nice. There’s a whole story behind that. I think I did tell you the story, but yeah, yeah. Well, whatever. One of these days you can tell the story. Okay. A little bit of context, right? Last year at about this time, I went and hung out with Mark in South Carolina. We had a great time, got lost in the woods, saw an aircraft carrier. It was great. And then we listened to some yes. And I reminded Mark of how cool yes was in the 70s when they were just out exploring. And yeah, we had a little bond, a little bond between us in terms of yes. And then apparently you showed that to me. The guy who did all the artwork for the classic yes albums. Apparently he’s got it. Is that an original or is it a copy? No, they’re prints. They’re prints. Okay. Okay. It’s still pretty cool that you got it signed. I bought them at a science fiction convention and we ended up getting signed. And yeah, actually I think Father Eric that the first thing you did when you got here was like, hey, let’s listen to some classic yes. And I was like, no, I haven’t listened to- It was like day three or four. Was it? I was like, I haven’t listened to classic yes in 50 billion years since I was young. And it was still before my time. Yeah, there we go. Check it out. No, it’s yes, not yeah. But we were at the science fiction convention and we bought those prints, my buddy and I. And he was like, oh, Roger’s coming down to sign these because he’s here, which we knew. And we were like, oh, and he’s like, yeah, you should be here in a couple hours out of this. You know, he’s doing a panel. And so we were waiting around and then we’re like, we need to go to the snack room, which is just around the corner really. It’s the same room actually. And so we did that. And then when we came back, a line had formed and we were like, hey, we’ve been waiting here for like two hours. But what ended up happening was it wasn’t an organized thing. So my friend and I are actually competent managerial type individuals. So we like went and figured out how to make it work. And then we directed a couple of kids because you know, we’re old folk. We don’t do that hands-on stuff. And we’re like, why don’t you guys go get Roger a chair and we’ll set up this table here. They ran around and did all the work and then set everything up. And then so we said, why don’t, because you did all this work for, you know, to make this happen, why don’t you get in line first? So they were one and two in line and we were three and four in line. Some people were staring off, but like I know a bunch of people at that conference and they saw me and they were like, oh. And then they were like, let’s not say anything. I have a reputation. But also they, a lot of people realized, oh no, no, these two are making this happen. Otherwise he has no place to sign things and doesn’t know what to do. Like we just actually like built a space because he was just gonna come down and like try to sign things, but there’s a big line of people and what do you do? Well, you need a table. You know, the guy’s kind of old, you know? And yeah, it was fascinating. We got to watch him doodle at a couple of points in the conference and yeah, in the convention rather. And yeah, it was a great experience. So yeah, you know, he ended up getting, you know, getting that experience and getting four pieces, you know, four prints signed. So that was great. It was really, and he’s a sweet guy. Oh, what an interesting character. Very, very artistic. I feel like if you were running in the same circles as Yes was in the 1970s, you’ve gotta be an interesting character. Like you’re not gonna have, you know, and a nine to five accountant, unless that nine to five accountant is really into, you know, seven, four time being interrupted by John Anderson going, ah! But the 70s were just a really interesting wild time, right, very bifurcated time. I mean, like Rick Wakeman, he had access to a high level piano and organ education in, you know, like Bach and Chopin and Debussy and Beethoven. And, you know, like he was a classically trained musician with chops. And so he had that foundation in the musical tradition that was his heritage. And he took it and, you know, did a lot of interesting things with it, but he had that foundation first. You need that foundation first. Like I look at guys like Chesterton and Lewis and all of the Inklings and like, you know, they got their butts kicked in school and I’m not gonna run away from that fact, but that got it all, they could read Greek and Latin. Yeah. And I didn’t get that. And that’d be really useful right now. Well, and I gotta disagree with you. I mean, a lot of bands didn’t have that training. But Yes did. Well, Yes did. But a lot of bands didn’t, especially in the 70s, but even in the 80s and 90s. And that actually benefited them to say, like, I mean, if you want the classic example, it’s Eddie Van Halen, right? Like Eddie Van Halen comes out and he’s doing things with the guitar and people are like, what the hell’s going on? And it turned out he taught himself how to play guitar. And- He was taught by his parents, I thought, how to play piano. Maybe how to play piano, but no one taught him how to play guitar. So he’s playing guitar in some way that no one’s ever seen or heard before. And they’re like, what is this guy? How is he making this noise with this instrument? And much like Jimi Hendrix too, by the way, but like really self-taught. And he like figured out a new way to play the instrument that no one had thought of. And I think a lot of people don’t know that, but like that’s what’s so groundbreaking about it. Because at the end of the day, and then look, I love Van Halen. It’s great. But at the end of the day, it’s kind of not very sophisticated music, musically. And I’m a huge fan. You don’t go there for sophistication. Boom, problem solved. You don’t. And you hear the story of someone like, the band like Metallica, right? They had one classically trained musician, the bassist of all the people, right? And then they do kind of their best music because it’s ensemble. And actually because their best album, which is probably the best heavy metal album that could ever exist. They do with Dave Mustaine, right? And then they get rid of him for probably good reasons at the time. But then the one guy who’s really good dies in this horrible bus accident in Europe. And yeah, later Metallica is not as good. Sorry, I’m a early Metallica guy. I think that stuff is fantastic. And not to knock on the later stuff. And then there’s another transition later where they get even garbager, in my opinion. Not that even that they’re bad. Just that I’m super picky. Admittedly, I’m super picky. So you can’t pick one. You can’t say, oh, you need classical trained musicians to have a good band. And you can’t go the other way either and say, well, you can’t do without them. It seems like you need a mix of both. And it’s that mixing that’s the real confusion with everybody about everything nowadays, right? I mean, a lot of people will make some statement like, well, you can’t have a band without a classically trained musician. They would suck. And then you find a bunch of exceptions. But then when you look numerically, exceptions are exceptions, they’re rare. And so maybe you shouldn’t try to make the rare thing common or claim it as a commonality. That’s really the struggle. The struggle is, oh, we see an instance of this. Like you see an Elon Musk and you think, well, I should be like Elon Musk. And it’s like, that doesn’t even make any sense. Even if everybody could be like Elon Musk, which of course doesn’t make any sense. And people don’t know that by the way. It wouldn’t be any good if everybody. It wouldn’t be any good, right? Yeah. Because Elon Musk wouldn’t sit there and knit a blanket. No, probably not. And that’s the- Not necessarily a blanket, but that blanket is a good thing. It’s a good thing, right? Well, and it’s good that we have people like that. I actually went over that in my identity live stream on navigating patterns this Friday. I watched a little bit of it. I wasn’t able to get through. Oh, well, it’s a good one. I might go back in. I’ll probably go back in later. Give me some comments if you can. Catch me up on the Discord server. Give me your opinions. Yeah, I mean, you don’t want that, right? You want people to participate in the best way that they can in something bigger than themselves. That’s what a company allows you to do. Not to say that all companies do that or are good at that, but that’s the reason why we have Elon Musk forming companies so that you can help people go to Mars. Even if you don’t have, we’ll say the skills at rocket building or whatever, there’s tons of things you do in a company that aren’t directly related, right? Sure, NASA needs an accountant. Exactly. NASA needs somebody to take out the garbage too. Yeah, and that- Yeah, I mean, there’s a role for everybody in these structures, and a good structure provides a role for everybody and a clear one that they can focus on and be good at because you can’t be good at too many things. And even if you meet somebody like Elon Musk, who maybe he can, I don’t know this because I don’t know the guy, I don’t ever matter, but he can be good at 10 things. I think he’s great at founding companies and gathering capital. Maybe he’s actually good. Maybe he’s a good programmer and he’s a good manager and he’s a good visionary because those are three different things. Wouldn’t that be a combination of skills, a good programmer and a good manager? I’ve never met him. He might be. That sounds like being a good engineer and good with people. But somebody out there is, right? But that doesn’t mean you can be, but it also doesn’t mean you have to be. And that’s where the deep confusion comes in. Everybody wants to be everything all the time. It’s like, obviously that’s not gonna work, but they don’t see when their thinking leads down that path and inevitably ends there, which of course isn’t an ending because you can’t do that. And people can’t differentiate that. And it’s really important that people understand that those things are different. And we really have a problem. And that’s what causes, in my opinion, is one of the contributing factors to the meaning crisis is that people don’t understand proper connections versus improper connections. I’m all for a failed musician’s group named Peterson’s Sphere. Sounds good to me. Honestly, I think God had to give me a baritone voice in order to prevent me from trying to be a rock musician. Because none of those rock musicians, besides Frank Zappa, which as you rightly pointed out as an exception, that had a baritone voice, they all had that crazy high tenor voice. Yeah, yeah, you’re right on the edge of circus life only as a rock musician. Yeah, I’m surprised you’re not a roadie, actually. Like you spend any time with Father Eric and you’re like, he’s like four seconds from being a roadie. I feel like if he had the right invitation to the right group of musicians, he’d rip off that collar and be gone, gone, gone. Get thee behind me, Saint Mary. All we need is a Catholic band that needs a chaplet. Ha ha ha ha. Yeah, you wouldn’t believe the amount of mental time for me that goes into imagining the coolest Catholic prog rock revival band of all time. I can imagine that, I can imagine that. With me as the bassist, of course. Of course. I’m gonna play a Rickenbacker with a pick because I wanna be Chris Squire when I grow up. Ha ha ha ha. Yeah, yeah, no, somebody who’s really into music. Yeah, yeah, this guy. 100% could. All right, kids, I was up at 4.30 today. Oh man. And I’m gonna take my administrative privileges and just end this stream five minutes early. But thank you. Sorry, I got Aquinas on keys and Crefe on bass. Thomas Merton on saxophone. Yeah, that’s a dream lineup right there. And so. Amazing. Good night. God bless you all. And I’ll see you next week. Same back time, same back channel. Have a good week.