https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=sTjSc7jPZIE
Because of what we’ve been talking about and because of this understanding that I have now that comes to me in different situations based on how you interpret the biblical stories, I feel like I understand the crucifixion better because of the profound death and rebirth and ascension. And so then I see those as a real top and a very low point and a very high point more understandably. But I would say that is the extent of my understanding so far. Yeah. Yeah. And so the crucifixion is obviously, how can I say this? It’s the place, maybe the best way to understand it at first is to understand it as the cross itself. And so the cross itself is not arbitrary. And it’s funny because you hear people argue about whether the cross was actually an actual cross like that or whether it was just a post or something like that. And people who talk about it that way are missing the entire point, which is that the shape of the cross is actually part of the mystery. It’s part of the meaning, which is that the cross is something like a cosmic shape. It has everything in it because it has the middle, it has the center, and then it has a vertical, which is, let’s say, heaven is the best way to understand the vertical itself. The verticality, right? And a ladder is heaven. And then it has a horizontal, which is earth, or which is the particular. And so the cross is the place where the invisibles and the ladder of heaven meets the particulars. And so in itself, it’s an image of that. But then it becomes more mysterious. So you could just see it that way. So when you just see a cross, you understand it’s basically a point of attention. It’s like everything is moving towards that. It’s the place where you are in space. And then there’s the four directions. It’s all of this type of thinking. Basically, you know, even like I said, even in terms of space, spatiality, it’s the it’s the middle with the the directions. It’s all of that which is there in the symbolism of the cross. But the mystery of it is why is it someone being killed? That’s the hardest part to understand. And it of course, it has to do with the idea that the existence of multiplicity in our world or the world of the fall, the world of this death, this death, deadly body that we have is something that in the Christian story is seen as a consequence of a fall, seen as the consequence of of a compromise, of pride, of all of these things, which brings about which kind of leads into fragmentation and to to a fall. And then there’s a pro there’s a mystery, which is that to return to the middle or to return to the center, there’s a there’s a kind of death which needs to happen or a consciousness of death or a conscious death is maybe the best way to understand it. So you’re a slave of death because of the fall. That is, you know, we all have that experience. We have we’re pulled apart. We’re ripped apart by our thoughts, by our desires, by by the world. Right. You’re going to die. We’re going to at some point our bodies kind of fall apart and we’re going to die. And so there’s a sense in which the way to deal with that is is also to die. And it’s weird because it sounds so contradictory. But once you once you kind of pierce that mystery, you realize that it actually makes sense in a very basic way. Something to do with medicine, like take your medicine, maybe is a good way to understand it. The idea of the need to do something unpleasant consciously so that it doesn’t happen to you unconsciously. Well, people say you have to get to your lowest point before you get a new understanding. And I’ve experienced that. I know that that can happen. And it does happen daily that you come to difficult places. And then if you can pause for a while, you can see a redemption, a tiny redemption in that you can get out of whatever difficulty you have at the moment. And there’s something about accepting the situation you’re in, you know, and not can I say that not refusing it or denying it. That is also part of that that salvation. So repentance. That’s why there’s a relationship between the idea of of the cross or crucifixion, at least in our experience and repentance. You know, and it happens intuitively in all kinds of weird ways. People will tell you things like, you know, you have to repent to be saved and all that type of language, which sometimes might seem a bit superficial and arbitrary. But there is a man in which that’s true in the way that you said, which is that if you have to recognize your state before any change can happen to you, you know, as you’re if you deny it, then and then you have to embrace a dying. But it’s not it’s not exactly the same kind of dying. It’s usually a dying, which is which is binding you to that suffering. Because we we suffer and then we’re kind of we identify with the suffering we but we bind we bind ourselves to our suffering. Usually that’s happens mostly here. It’s your thoughts. It’s not your body as much like your body is making you suffer. But your your attachment to that suffering is happening up here and it’s happening in your emotions and your in your thoughts. And so there’s a manner in which embracing death is freeing yourself from death because you’re you no longer are a slave to that suffering. Even though it’s happening to you, it’s not doesn’t mean that it’s not going to happen. It’s going to stop necessarily. Of course, there are images of healing. I think your experience is one of those. And I remember when you described it to me the first time when I saw you a while ago, I guess in January, two years ago, a year and a half ago, you talked about this. Yeah, exactly. Kind of this this opening up and letting things come to you like letting the prayers enter you and not not not crisping yourself and just resisting the resisting what was happening to us, which is usually one a large part of our suffering. And so so you can see that in the so in the image of the cross, what you’re seeing, even in the form with his arms out, you know, and filling up the cross. So it’s actually a it really is a filling up of the world. And that’s the way to understand it really in terms of theologically is that so theologically, we would say that, you know, in order for God to save something has to assume it. And so God enters becomes man and then dies and fills up death and transforms it into something else. It transforms it into glory really is the best way to understand it. And so this there’s a relationship between death and glory. Like even in the story, there’s a sense in which in the old there’s a there’s a all these traditions would talk about how before the fall, Adam and Eve had garments of glory. And that when they fell, then they received garments of death, garments of skin. But there’s also a weird, mysterious thing, which in scripture, many places, scripture seems seem to hint at the fact that those two are related very intricately, that one is actually an aspect of the other, but just not fully assumed, you could say. So there are verses in scripture which talk about how the an old person’s white hair is their glory. That’s a really beautiful image. That’s a very powerful image, because on the one hand, the white hair becomes like light, which is emanating from your head. Right. You have light emanating from your head. So it’s very visually right. But it’s also that white hair is is death. And and it’s a way of dying, basically. And so there’s an aspect, there’s an idea in which that’s it is like a way of dying gets transformed into into glory. And it’s funny because you I say that and it’s it might sound so arbitrary to some. But if you can think of examples in your life, you’ll realize that which is exactly like the person that gives themselves to others. Openly, not out of resentment, not out of. But you’ve met maybe a few people in your life, if you’re lucky, that have really lived in service of others and giving themselves to others. And when they’re with others, they they give themselves. And so they’re they’re dying to themselves constantly without without resentment. But that dying to themselves is them filling up the world. You know, and those are the people that when they die, you realize that their story has completely filled up all these other stories. And now, you know, they’re the person that will receive great testimonies. And people say they changed my life. They these all these things that they’ve done. So all of a sudden that that death is actually filling its glory. Like, that’s what glory is like. Glory is this thing that moves out of you and shines out. And so so there’s a way in which Christ is revealing the, you know, the way in which the world actually exists, like the way in which community exists, the way in which our relationships are. Are rich, let’s say is maybe the best way to understand it. So the more empty I can become. That’s the that’s the idea. It’s hard to accept. I mean, I don’t want to do that most of the time, but I see it like I see the moments where I have. And I also see it in those that I know that have been the most luminous, you know, those are the people that in a way are the most empty. But it’s surprising because they they are also empty, but they also become very particular. It’s not like it’s a weird thing. It’s as if there’s this image in in one of the books, one of my favorite books called The Life of Moses by St. Gregory of Nyssa, where said where Moses ascends the mountain to meet God. And as he’s ascending the mountain, he’s basically giving giving up everything. He’s basically giving giving up everything. So he gives up his friends, he gives up his sandals, he gives up all the coverings that he he has. And so he enters into the divine glory, into the glory of God. Then when he’s there, he receives them all back in a way, but almost like in a pure form. So he receives the pattern of the tabernacle when he’s in the glory of God. And St. Gregory talks about how in the pattern of the tabernacle is everything he gave up, like all these things that he all his friends, all of this now is returned in this kind of architectural thing, which is also the church, which is which is kind of this universal pattern that he receives. And so I think that that’s the mystery, too, is that when we empty ourselves, we actually find something which is truer to ourself. You know, that seed, you know, when Christ talks about selling the field to get the pearl or, you know, getting rid of all the externals to get to the to the kernel of what you are. So I was reading about crucifixion and the holding the being held by your hands and how you can’t breathe because you need because it stretches all of your muscles, your diaphragm, your you can’t inhale because you need that free air. You need that freedom of muscular of your muscles, the movement of your muscles to breathe in and out. Oh, my God, that horrified me when I read that. Yeah. Wow. Running out of breath, basically a slow. Yeah. Yeah, painful. And that is at the center of that crucifix where that’s what’s happening there. Yeah. Wow. Understand it as a descent, you know, so the the image, one of the images, the traditional image of Christ on the cross like the is you see Christ on the cross and then at the bottom of the cross, you’ll see a little mountain. It’s not a mountain. It’s a little bump, basically, but it’s supposed to represent a mountain. And then you’ll see a skull. There’s a cave and there’s a there’s a skull hidden in the cave. And usually there’s blood coming down on the cross, which will start to will drip on the on the skull. So that is what you’re seeing happen. You’re basically what you’re seeing is this filling up of death that Christ is doing, you know, this idea that Christ as he’s dying, he’s descending down into death completely filling it up. And as he’s filling it up from the lower part, he’s also filling up the higher part because when he’s on the cross, there’s a sign on his head which says Jesus Christ, King of the Jews. And it’s meant to be ironic. But it’s also written. It’s written in several languages, which makes it so. But it’s like a double irony, which is again like the Crown of Thorns that we talked about before. You know, it’s actually revealing a truth about what’s there, what’s actually happening, you know, even though people think it’s mocking. So when Christ dies, what happens is the veil of the temple is ripped. And that’s those two things happening at the same time. The veil of the temple is equivalent to the top of the mountain of paradise. It’s the summit of the space where God and man meet, you know, where Moses went up the mountain and saw God is the same as the priest going into the Holy of Holies and encountering the glory of God in the Holy of Holies. So ripping the veil is Christ going all the way into the Holy of Holies and going into death at the same time and joining them together. Right. I talked about this idea of making death into glory. And that’s what’s going on. So it’s not. It’s a pretty astounding thing, which is happening on the cross in the story itself. Like when you read it, what it’s referring to, let’s say. It also says that the thief that was first hung, they broke his legs when they took him down. But they didn’t break Christ’s legs. They pierced his side and water and blood flowed out. That is that that’s what they mean is that is that the filling up to that? Well, yes. And so the the hymnography of the church and many of the True Fathers, they interpret that as the birth. Two things. It’s the it’s a new creation, you could say. And so it’s creation which is pouring out. But it’s also the creation is relating to the creation of Eve. That is, it’s the birth of the church because the because Eve was taken out of Christ’s side. And so this water and blood which is coming out of Christ is something like the water of paradise, which is coming down into the world. If you think of the paradise as a mountain and the sources of water coming down into the world, the four rivers of paradise. And it’s also the birth of the church. And so and it’s a it’s a mystery. I’ve talked about this recently. I don’t forget where I think on on on on a Q&A where there’s a mystery about how the world exists, which is that. The idea that the image of the lamb, which is sacrificed before the foundation of the world. So this is an image you find in scripture and it’s very mysterious because we tend to think of the crucifixion only as a consequence of the fall. That is right. Adam died until Christ has to has to fill that up like God has to fill that up. So God comes in and then fills up death with himself. And so there’s an extent there’s a real there’s an aspect of that which is true. But there’s also an aspect of it which is more mysterious, which is that for something to exist, there has to be a sacrifice. Because there has to be compromise. There has to be so you imagine like there has to be poked. Imagine like a pure form, you know, like the Hindus think talk about this cosmic egg that’s there at the origin. It’s like this pure form that has no multiplicity, that has no parts. It is just like this pure oneness. But that oneness has to be something has to happen to it. It has to be broken somehow in order for the world to exist. And so that can be understood as sacrifice. And so what’s happening there on the cross is that it’s like basically the creation of the world. Where out of Christ, the world flows out, but it has to be like a poking. Well, I see. Yeah. But that stuff is hard to think about. It’s hard to understand, too. Oh, that’s fascinating. I need to know more about that. So. So I’ve started to read some poetry about the crucifix, and I was reading George Herbert. He’s from like 1600. And he writes about crucifix and John Dunn. He’s from about 1600. I was told by some notable person recently to read those. And I’m going to be sent some of those poems. There’s so much to learn about the crucifix that it’s. I can see how someone could devote a lot of time to. I don’t know if there’s any. Is there someone who just spends their time around the crucifix all the time? I don’t know. But like I said, we haven’t even started. Like we haven’t talked about the actual the the wood, the cross, the tree, the nails. There’s so much to talk about. Like there’s so much going on at the same time in this story that it’s difficult to to talk about. You know, why? So why is it that Christ has to be fixed on the tree? No. What is the relationship between Christ and the serpent on the tree? Because there’s definitely a relationship going on there because Christ said that he, you know, as the as Moses rose, as Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the desert, so to the son of man was he lifted up. And so in the story of the bronze serpent, these serpents are are biting people. And so Moses makes one out of bronze, lifts it up on a pole. And now everybody who looks to that serpent is healed. And so Christ is the serpent is that serpent. So he is the bronze serpent on the pole. And he’s kind of a flip side of the serpent in the Garden of Eden, in a way, because serpents bite serpents. Yes, but serpents are also strangle. They’re also related to death in the sense that they’re not stable. You know, they they move and they’re in so many places at the same time. They don’t have there’s an image in in in scripture where Moses grabs the serpent by the tail. When he grabs the serpent by the tail becomes a staff. So it moves from multiplicity, variability, change to solidity, identity, you know, all of that verticality. And then we let’s go. Then it turns back into a serpent. So those are like two aspects of reality. The tree and the waters or the tree and the change, stability and multiplicity, all of that is related to this. Now, Christ on the cross is like both at the same time. Right. So it’s both Christ. It’s a serpent on the cross, but the serpent is also being fixed to the cross in a way that it’s just these categories will just blow it like they just blow your mind. Because it’s it’s like this variability being fixed. And by doing that, it’s healing. So it’s death again. So death being raised up. And because it’s raised up in a certain manner, then it heals you from death. So it’s like it’s like a cure. It’s like a like a cure for a poison where you take some aspect of the poison and then you make a cure out of it. And now you give meaning to it. And when you do, then it heals you from the actual poison. And so that has to do with this idea of dying, true dying or dying in a way that is conscious. So you take some aspect of death, you give it meaning. Right. You raise it up so that it becomes meaningful. And then when that happens, it heals you from accidental dying, you could say.