https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=IBI1vS9_T7E
Welcome everybody to another voices with Reveki. I’m here again with Iris Stamberger and I’ve talked with Iris before about her wisdom project. What we’re going to do today is she’s going to talk about further developments and then we’re also going to talk about an upcoming course on the wisdom project that I’m going to be attending. And because, as many of you know, I’m doing a lot of this participant experimentation and observation and so just want to get that message out there. But first of all, welcome Iris. It’s great to have you here again. I’m delighted to be here and I was telling Joan that I’m waiting for Beyond Socrates, his new video production, because I think it’s going to help me grow the wisdom project. But so far, using what I learned from the videos about the meaning crisis and all the linkage to different theorists in cognitive science, psychology and also philosophers, I was able to put together the wisdom project. And so far, I have trained people from 10 countries in Spanish and English, because I speak Spanish, as you can see from my accent. I have done six cohorts, six different groups. And a total of 55 people have come to the different courts and five of those people have come back. Right. I was trying to think of what is a second level, how Joan can help me create a second level, but they felt that they needed to come back to really understand what was going on. And now I’m debriefing them. And I think it’s like when you go to a Vipassana retreat that Goinkaji is always talking about the same, you know, it’s the same talk talk. The same Dharma talk, but every time the experience is like swimming in the river. So it’s really working well. One of the participants who organized a group in Australia calls it an icon of a sacred icon of wisdom, because through these very simple two hours together, people can really go deep into a level of. Experience that perhaps they have not cultivated in their lives, so things are going very well. So let’s let’s just review sort of the format for people. It’s not just a single two hours. It’s two hours over multiple weeks. Like, explain the whole program a little bit. Okay, so what I did is when you review all the theories of wisdom. And finally propose that wisdom is an ecology of cognitive styles and psychotechnologies that work with and then you list a series of cognitive styles. I took those cognitive styles and created a list of seven skills, aspiration, mindfulness, open mindedness, self regulation, instead of internalizing the sage, I talked about self regulation, understanding intuition and transcendence. Right, right. And I weaved the knowledge that we weave through the seven series, including Agnès Collard with her idea of aspiring to be a mother, which is a rational, but non logical process. Therefore, we need symbols. Yes, yes. Therefore, we need images. We need something else to reach, to aspire to be like King Solomon. And so in aspiration, in mindfulness, in open mindedness, intuition, self regulation, understanding and transcendence, people are invited to develop those skills by using a series of tools. And the tools are all tools about the automation. Right. And taking and the century. Yes, psychological distance. So we start with Igor Grossman, King Solomon’s paradox that Solomon was really wise, but he had many, many issues. He went bankrupt. He had like 700 wives. So God said to him, according to the Bible, you are wise, but not in every situation. So people, you know, I tell the story, people say, okay, I’m also wise. I can do it. But then we do the King Solomon paradox, Igor Grossman’s King Solomon paradox with a contemplation exercise where they get to ask a wise person that appears to them how to address their project. Right. Right. Right. Right. So all the time I combined meditation, a very short vipassana meditation or insight meditation or body scan meditation, a very short anapan or awareness of breath meditation with some type of contemplation that invites centering in the automation. Right. Excellent. That’s the combination of tools that work throughout the seven sessions. There are seven sessions, two hours each online live, you know, alive, you know, I’m there guiding the guiding the session. And then people besides committing to come to the seven sessions, they have to also make the commitment to meet for half an hour with a peer. Right. Because another tool of the centering in the automation, it’s mindful conversation. Yes. Which I don’t use certainly I don’t use other tools from authentic relating. I just use a very simple technique by Tanya Singer from the Planks Institute. She’s an effect neuroscientist. And then she just structures a conversation where you basically listen to the other. It’s, you know, actively listening that we have known forever, but with a different structure. So that’s another of my here and now techniques, the vipassana, the awareness of breath and the mindful conversation and then contemplations, as I said, all of them based on tools from cognitive science. I also use. Gary Klein, great clients, pre mortem analysis, which he published in two thousand and seven and it’s become has become really popular in business. How do you analyze a project that failed before you start? You’re right. Right. Right. I use a lot of, you know, I’ve been a consultant for organizations for many, many years and throughout the years I have developed. Well, a skill of facilitating transformation in teams and in organizations by bringing tools that are in part from psychology, but also in part from what is called lean management. Or agile management is a big movement within organizational science to create change and transformation. Right. From engineering, from software engineering and from manufacturing. In my past, I was an engineer, so I use all those tools to help teams in organizations transform to coach them to deliver a project. And that’s what we do, because a requirement besides coming to a seven sessions when you sign for the reason project foundational program is that you have a project. And the project becomes the object of awareness. The project becomes something that you play with in the seven weeks that you play with when you are with your peers in your. Can you give an example of a project that. Yes, to pastors. Who came to the program, their project was self care increased self care, one of them has four kids plus parish with 80 families. So I can imagine how difficult it is for her to create time for herself. So that was the project. Another project was there were three women with. Little issues in the relationship with a child, because the children were going starting adolescence. Right. So their project is how do I make the transition in a wiser way? How do I reason differently about this transformation? So that was a project. Another project was this is the art projects of the I, the self projects of the we, the relationship, like to improve my relationship with my mother in law and projects of the eat. Some people, some people wanted or have wanted to start a business. Right. You to, you know, how do I do this and understand my problem in a different way? Other people want to plan a career change. Other people want to improve a skill like writing for certain type of community. So the project can be anything. I have done project management for organizations for many, many years. I’m very familiar with the tools. And I know they deliver results in the big innovation in the wisdom project is that your conceptual framework. Not only the views of the mini crisis and the way of approaching wisdom as a process, but also the way you relate to so many sources of wisdom. You know, of knowledge about about reasoning, about self deception, about. Self regulation, etc. allowed me to OK, of all the tools that I have, I used to call myself the tool lady because I have many tools of all the tools that I have. I could then bring them to the to the wisdom project. So working besides. OK, go ahead. Sorry. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, that was fantastic. I was that was really, really good. I, there’s a couple of questions I’m asking on behalf of people who might be watching. People can take this who might not have that tremendous amount of familiarity with my work, for example. They don’t necessarily have to watch all of awakening for the meaning crisis or or things like that. But on the other hand, people who did that. Will also resonate with it. It’s sort of designed to reach both groups. Is that is that correct? Yes, yes. After we did our recording in May, eight people that follow you came as a guy to reset. John gave me the what I need for my practice and you gave me the how I was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really grounded it in a very, very practical way. When she was in the session number three, she started using what she was learning with her family and then with her colleagues. And now she’s using it in her practice with patients. So that’s great. And I think that’s an important point. I’m what I’m wondering also, what about people who’ve done other things like, for example, the circling into deal logos workshop would they find good connections between that workshop and the wisdom project. And yes, because. Well, yes, I know, in the sense that I don’t. I don’t name things I let them discover and then my pleasure is a woman’s came to a class and said, this shouldn’t be calling the wisdom project. This is about flow. Yeah, and and then I in sense at the only and then I speak about the flow state and how he generates insights and then everybody. Oh, that’s what they have been doing. Another thing that happens is that when they come from breakout rooms that they do mindful conversations one on one or in trios and they come back. Then I ask a question and not always, but in many, many occasions a moment of collective intelligence emerges. Right, right, right. That is more that I call the logos is like the logos emerging and then everybody’s like, wow, look what you just did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Excuse me. Look, look what we all did. Yes, yes. So I, you know, I don’t have time to name things I am creating experiences. I think the pedagogy. That I’m using is part project based learning. Yep. Yep. Experiential learning. And peer teaching, peer teaching and learning. That’s why they have to come to a sessions because their wisdom is going to be used to elevate the wisdom of the group. So I believe that people who have done circling dialogues will love it, but it’s different in the sense that you have to have a project in the pedagogy. You have to have a project in the project is the object of attention. Right. I think this is a brilliant innovation on your part. I think this is really important. What I was looking for, and it sounds like it’s right is yes, it’s not the same, but it sounds like it’s complementary to like the philosophical fellowship and the dialectic and the deal logos practices, which I think. I think that’s very, very important. I believe that once people have completed the this program, the foundational program that I’m teaching right now, then at a second level, they could easily go into the dialogues. Yeah, yeah. But I have been only a two, no, three different events and not always the dialogue was happened. Yes, yes, yes. In my opinion, my humble opinion. Okay, and I don’t want them. I just want them to be in love with the depth of experience that is in them. Yes, never invited to enjoy to surprise themselves with the richness only when you start paying attention differently. Yeah, I think I think that this well, this is what I want to see that the wisdom project would be like you say it would be the foundational. It would be the initial. Program, it would be the onboarding program for anybody who wanted to then enter into, you know, all these emerging colleges of practices that and that’s that’s. And that’s like, I teach a gateway course for the cognitive science program. I know how important I know how deeply important. A gateway course is a gateway program is and this is what I want to see. The wisdom project, because it sounds to me like that’s exactly what you’ve created and the innovations you’ve brought and the way you pitched it at just the right level. Deeply deeply looking forward to this. I think this is exactly how I see it and the role it could take in the overall project. Because not everybody is thinking, oh, I want wisdom. That’s right. What’s the exploration they just want is flourishing in their lives in the lives of the people they love. Flourishing at work, you know, I’m here in Boston and there is so much money in transition in the business world. People have sometimes MDs and PhDs and then they have these careers of three years here, three years there because of the change in the industry. Many, many changes. Yeah. It’s difficult. So it’s a taste. Oh, I wish because we have made a lot of progress. Now we have a newsletter and we have a community. It’s called wisdom project dot community and you can go there and then you can see the testimonials. People talking about they have changed and then I have little bits with some of the tools that we use. So it’s just start the journey. It’s an invitation to start the journey. This is exactly what I like about it. And like my RA, he does lots of work on personal projects and the relationship to wisdom cultivation. So your brilliant insight and innovation to make a personal project the primary pedagogical object. I think that should be commended. I think that’s brilliant. And I really want to like I say, that’s why I’m going to be there. We should before we forget, we should say when the next one is. The next one is October 21st at 6 p.m. That’s the one that you are going to be part of. Eastern time, 6 p.m. Eastern time, Boston and Toronto’s time. Yeah. Eastern time U.S. And then there is another one on Saturday, October 22nd at 11 a.m. For speaking for Spanish speaking people and one at three for people from Europe. Eastern time, but in Europe is still they can do it. And then on Sunday at 7 p.m. There is a third one. I like to do the course together because I don’t want to confuse the stories that I tell. It’s a lot of storytelling, a lot of sharing and then the meditation and the contemplations. The meditations and the contemplation. And then at some moments, collective intelligence emerges and everybody’s like, what? Look at what we did. This is excellent. I’ll have Iris send me all the links for all of this. They’ll be in the show notes to this video. And. So what? I want to give people a sense of you now. Okay. What? What’s motivating you to do this? Well, I have been a mindfulness meditator and meditation teacher forever, you know, for many years, like 20 years. And that was like a hidden secret. People who have known me for many years professionally, they don’t know that about me. Right. Right. They know Iris and it’s an organizational consultant with a PhD in cognitive science. And so COVID forced me to stop doing my work because I have to do a lot of networking. And I was thinking, okay, you know what? I can retire. And I’m going to just teach mindfulness to pastors and to psychotherapists, which is something I love and it’s deep to my heart. And I teach mindfulness at a local hospital, at a center for psycho physiological science. It’s like my hobby. I do it for free. It’s just my hobby. So I said, okay, I’m going to retire and I’m going to, but then I had this sadness in my heart. Even when I saw a book or something, I felt so much grief because I didn’t know, you know, I know I have developed a lot of tools, as I said, and then I met your work. I have been following people in Europe that I think are trying, struggling to generate a new paradigm. How to live, how to create a better society, how to reason better, et cetera. Et cetera. And then I found your work, you know, website called what this emerging.com. And it was amazing. I stopped everything. And I don’t know how many times I have seen the videos of the mini-discs. It’s silly. But I did something like that 25 years ago. I found the work of Francisco Varela and Humberto Maturano. They had an engineering and consulting company in Caracas, Venezuela with a hundred employees. And I found those videos and I couldn’t get enough of this concept of the mind being embodied. And out of the blue, we created a program, my husband and I, for personal transformation that we did out of our house. And it grew like crazy, even though that was a hobby again. So I had this feeling, okay, I can come back and do that. And then I’ve made your work for the first time in my life. I could put together my two brains. It’s like I was severed, my meditation and spiritual life, and then my work life. And now with the wisdom project, everything goes together. And because there is so much technology, I feel a big relief that I am creating recordings and that I’m creating a teacher’s training program. And that soon this knowledge that I have accumulated throughout my lifetime can be shared. The wisdom project is under a creative commons license, meaning everybody that gets to know it can use it. You don’t have to pay for a license. So the way that I plan to keep the quality is by offering things to people who want to practice the wisdom project. But my dream is for I live in downtown, in a town very close to Boston, and there is a high school next to my office, to my house. And I dream of the teachers using the wisdom project. We, you know, I forgot to tell you, I’m calling it democratizing wisdom. Democratize wisdom. Let’s make it accessible. So it’s not the province of a few. And the wisdom project is proving that I’m very proud that in the last class, the last cohort, I had five teenagers, sophomore students. One of them, you know, I’m very rigorous with you have to come to a certain classes. One of them failed one class and I said, come to the next cohort because I need your wisdom for the group. But then 14 ages came to seven stations and they had wonderful results. Wonderful results. One of them is my nephew and he just recorded his testimonial. And my sister yesterday and I called me and said, it’s a miracle. Because he is he’s talking. If you see the, um, John, you will see your knowledge piercing through the way he’s talking about the trajectory of training using all the language. Oh, wow. That’s, you know, of course I have to praise my own brother, but extremely happy to see what is happening with people. They are bringing it to their families, to their communities. And that was my goal. Democratizing wisdom made possible by your approach to wisdom. Your, uh, what is your, you call it the wise cultivation of enlightenment. Yes. Yes. Yes. In a very practical, in a very concrete, in a very gentle and caring way. If one tool doesn’t work for you, like the pre-mortem analysis that I said, or the awareness of bread, if it doesn’t work for you, we are just doing serious serious play. Just see if another one helps you. Yeah. It’s not like when you go to the meditation center that you have to see, then, you know, just in the posture. No, no, no. It’s just. I got big love parenting ourselves. One of the testimonials in one of the testimonials, a person said, oh, we got together because he wanted to. Participate, but because he’s in Australia, you know, and I’m in Boston, 14 hours difference. He said, I cannot call my, can we create a glass for my friends? So he came with his friends and then after the glass was over, they met at a restaurant and they were just talking, you know, how changed they felt, how transformed they were in their lives. So. You know, I have to brace my own work, but I really think something is happening. People are thirsty for this. Yes. Or perhaps they have no, oh, most people are engineers, you know, it’s just a type of people like, you know, that I attract, I guess, engineers or physicians or two professors, three professors, higher education professors, a few teachers. So people that are very busy with their lives, that here and there, they buy a psychological book, but they don’t have access to these and they have lost the connection with, you know, the beyond or the logos or something. Yeah. These modest two hours for seven weeks plus the community, I believe are creating something different for them. A new way of being in the world. Yeah. That’s excellent. That’s excellent. I can tell you a joke. Sure. Okay. I have a cousin who is a structural engineer in Florida and he, he’s the engineer that approves the foundation of those buildings with 40 floors. And he sends me these pictures from Miami, 6 a.m. in the morning, because that’s when they do the pouring of the concrete. So last two weeks ago, he calls me and said, Iris, I hate what you are doing because my sister did the course with you. And now all the time, she only wants to be mindful. She wants me to pause. She wants me, I cannot tolerate that. So I was going to react. And then before I said anything, he said, but in all honesty, Iris, she’s changed. This is the first time in our lives that she’s listening to me. And then before I go to talk about the wisdom project, and then he said, I’m starting a new business line. Can I go to the wisdom project to see if I can apply these things to what I’m doing? So my focus is less enhance the way you reason about complex problems. There are tools to do it. And those tools cannot be logical. They have to be imaginable. To reach the imaginary, you have to use symbols. Or eventually, when I get to do this face to face, we will use music and movement. And there is a South American practice called bio dance that I used to do a lot. And I love yoga, but bio dance is also a way of approaching connection. Well, that’s really good. That’s really good. Is there anything else you’d want to mention or discuss? This is a very good, I think, presentation of a project and why it should be attractive to a great number of people. Yeah. And also that I’m working on donations. So if people are students and they feel cannot make, I always make an exception. I really want this to grow. I have to make it financially sustainable. But I really think it’s a nice little simple way of organizing tools that can guide you. Once the foundational program is over, people will have seven skills of wisdom that they can continue cultivating throughout their lives. They will have a different approach to a project that is dear to their hearts. That is important to their hearts. Knowing that they can use the seven skills for the next project. And we all have projects in our lives. We all have continuously new projects. And then, of course, they have the 16 or 17 tools that I use. And I keep telling them, if you didn’t like the pre-mortem analysis, use the felt sense, Eugene Gendlin felt sense. And people resonate differently with each one. So what I ask people is to come for an interview with me, half an hour, and a half an hour conversation. So I can help them before they register for the course, their project. Yes, because I help them refine their project. So they are, you know, increase their, I increase their ability to be successful with their project. And also to see if there is a good fit between the wisdom project and whatever they want or they are. So it’s half an hour conversation with me that they can scale it on my calendar. And then after that commitment to come to the seven sessions because they are going to be one of the teachers, not only Iris. Right. Right. Okay. Well, let’s like I say, let’s make sure you get to me, get all the links and all the notes because I want to get this video out very soon so that people will be able to connect with you and join me in at least one, join me maybe in one of them. Yeah, one, he’s coming to one, but there are a few that people can choose from. Exactly. This movement to democratize wisdom. I’ll be sending you the links and people who see this video, they can go to wisdomproject.com community and register so they can see the testimonials and some of the tools and what is that we are doing. Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. This is fantastic. Iris, this has been great. And let’s get this video really soon. Okay. And I’ll see you on the 21st. Yeah, you’ll definitely see me on the 21st. Thank you, John. Keep the good work. You too. Yeah. All right.