https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=B1SVXHFxkvs
The reason I’m asking you this is because I’m trying to delve into the reasons why the apocalypse narrative surrounding climate got going to begin with. Now you were there at the onset of the environmental movement, say with the with the Greenpeace types, and you had your environmental concerns. So what was driving your concern at the onset and the concern of your compatriots? And why did your paths deviate? So we’re talking about cause now. You were trying to get me started on that at the beginning and we got off on too many other things, but yeah I’d like to explain why I joined Greenpeace and why I left Greenpeace. I think I did say that I was doing a PhD in ecology and that led me into environmental concerns and there was hydrogen bombs being detonated by the United States in the Aleutian Islands and there was still atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons by France in French Polynesia and that was the first target of Greenpeace’s campaign. It was Greenpeace, the peace in Greenpeace is about people, not about the environment. Green is about the environment and so we were at the beginning, we were actually doing humanitarian work rather than an ecological work in some ways. I mean we were trying to stop the possibility of an all-out nuclear war by waking people up to the arms race and all of that that was going on at the time. That was when what 1971 was the voyage to Amchitka with 12 of us on a small fishing boat, 85 foot boat across the Pacific Ocean, got arrested by the Coast Guard, made military Cronkite’s evening news and had tens of thousands of people marching in the streets and so there were lots of other people involved but we were the tip of the spear on that because we got up out and did something and quit our regular lives and went on a three-month campaign on an old fish boat and learned a whole lot of stuff and had a great time and because we all had a motto, the revolution should be a celebration, not killing people and stuff and so we did that and then the next year we’ve had such success, we had defeated the world’s most powerful organization, the US Atomic Energy Commission because they stopped the next test that they were going to do. Nixon did that and it was very shortly after the bomb we were going against, they did set that one off, I guess they couldn’t lose that much face but they stopped that program so we said well let’s head for Mureroa Atoll in French Polynesia and stop the atmospheric tests and it only took two years to do that. In a 26 foot sailboat going from New Zealand while the rest of us went over to Europe and the first thing we did was we asked for an audience with the Pope which he gave us and mentioned our name during his speech from up on his porch there and that was pretty thrilling and then we went to Paris and occupied Notre Dame Cathedral, just a half a dozen of us handing out pamphlets because even Le Monde at that time was controlled by the state. No one in France knew about the atmospheric nuclear tests in French Polynesia, it wasn’t a subject to be discussed and so we are handing out these pamphlets and then we sat in the pews and as it was time for closure the suratais came in and we said we are occupying this church overnight as a demonstration and they said excuse me sir but this is not a church it is a national monument and you will come to jail with us if you don’t get out of here right now. So we’re actually quite smart about these things, we didn’t want to go to jail and we got out but we made Le Monde the next morning. For the first time there had been a story about the French atmospheric nuclear testing and then we went to Stockholm where the first international meeting on the environment took place where they were talking about all kinds of environmental things but they sure weren’t going to talk about nuclear, that’s what the superpowers as they were called in the nuclear weapons states made it very clear that war was not an environmental issue and so therefore atmospheric testing wasn’t an environmental issue even though it was sending radiation around the whole southern atmosphere for months of the year and but we didn’t go to the alternative conference, in all of these conferences there is an alternative hippie conference with colorful flags and dancing girls and all that sort of thing, we went to the real conference because six months earlier Jim Bolan and his wife Marie and I, Jim Bolan was one of the leaders of the early Greenpeace group, he’s an engineer who worked with Buckminster Fuller on the domes up north, the Duline domes, really smart guy and I went with him as an ecologist and his wife and we lobbied every southern hemisphere country especially the ones on the Pacific about the situation and that we were going to send a boat and all that stuff and then we went to the Stockholm conference and convinced the French, sorry the New Zealand delegation who had been the sort of strongest against this all along and the New Zealand delegation put a motion on the floor against atmospheric nuclear testing and won by a landslide so it was a great embarrassment to them all and the next year they quit, they did do one more year, but then they went underground and now they’re not doing it at all and then they sank our boat in New Zealand with bombs on the hull while people were in it, one person died, that was the only time there was a fatality during a Greenpeace campaign, we were very careful with our boats because boats can kill people pretty quick if the weather gets bad and I grew up on a floating village so there was nothing but boats and my dad’s logging camp in Winter Harbor on the north tip of Vancouver Island which we still have a family compound there, we’re not in the forestry business anymore but we were for about a hundred years and so I grew up on a tide flat with a dock and a few houses and a couple of rivers and a lot of forest and so I was naturally interested in nature so I joined Greenpeace, we went on these voyages and as time went on we then moved into more environmental issues such as toxic waste, pollution, cleaning up the rivers in Europe, North America had already passed good clean water and air acts earlier than we were in the late 60s but Europe had not and almost every big river, the Elbe, the Rhine, the river in London, the Thames, they were pretty much dead and so we got a smaller boat, the river boat we called it, about a 50 foot boat and went up these rivers with divers and plugged the pipes of the factories that were putting poison in the rivers underwater where no one could see it going in and so we plugged the pipes and it backed up into the factories and that made the newspapers happy and we won and so that was good and then about the early 80s a change occurred where environmental groups were now describing the human species as the enemies of the earth, the cancer of the planet, you know disaster for human, for life and all of that so we kind of the green got dropped, sorry the piece got dropped out of the green piece and but it’s too much like original sin for me to think that humans are the only evil animal on the planet or evil species on the planet, I just don’t go for that and not into that and but I stayed for a bit even though they were saying these things. 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How did that happen what like why do you think that happened what can what changed we were infiltrated by the political left yeah okay so that was a marxist it was a it was a marxist incursion yeah yeah that that makes perfect sense yeah because that that kind of puts that anti-capitalist spin on it right yeah yeah then what happened Jordan is in an international meeting of which i was one of the directors and we had maybe 50 people around the table by this time from all kinds of countries David McTaggart who was our chairman and had become so in political ways and I negotiated the founding of Greenpeace international with him in a conflict over the use of the word Greenpeace the San Francisco office was trying to take it away from us the founding office and of course the U.S. has 20 times the fundraising capacity as Canada and so it became a civil war within Greenpeace and I we’ve got my our lawyer negotiated with me and David the contract of Greenpeace international which he was become chairman and I would be the representative for Canada and the representative for U.S. and a representative Australia Germany Germany Netherlands UK we had nine or ten countries all with offices by this time and good fundraising going on and so David was one of these people who is scared of chemicals right chemophobia it’s been described as it’s sort of like being scared of the climate and he decided with advice from others that Greenpeace should start a campaign to ban chlorine worldwide with capital letters and I’m going to you guys salt is sodium chloride it is an essential nutrient it is why Gandhi marched to the sea to make salt because the Brits were taxing the poor people of India for an essential nutrient that they couldn’t afford and so come on but not only that adding chlorine to drinking water was the biggest advance in the history of public health and to spas and pools and hot tubs etc and 85% of our pharmaceuticals are based on chlorine chemistry and 25% of them actually have chlorine in them if you look at your cold medicine you’ll see a little cl there are a lot of them and so I said we can’t do that you guys we cannot ban chlorine worldwide if you have a particular chlorinated compound that you think should be banned from industry or whatever let me know but I’m gone if you do that and I was gone