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It’s pretty funny that if you want to improve your cognitive function or maintain it, you should exercise rather than think. And that if you want to improve your physiology, you should straighten out your story and face your traumas rather than, say, exercise. So what do you recommend in your book, in Outlive in particular, with regard to the expansion of healthspan? What do you think? And how do you practice this personally? What do you recommend to people? So I think that exercise is empirically the most valuable tool we have for both the cognitive and physical components. So let’s start with the cognitive, because I think here it was less intuitive. So about 10 years ago, when I really went down this rabbit hole, I had one of my research analysts spend a lot of time going through the literature. So we created a framework where we were going to look at every single intervention and how it impacted executive function, processing speed, short term memory, long term memory. Those were the four metrics we cared about, because, as you point out, those are all bits of intelligence that decline with age. So and we looked at everything. OK, so we looked at every molecule. We looked at every possible thing that you could think of. And after about nine months of this, the thing that stood out above all else, beyond any diet, beyond the importance of sleep and other things that certainly mattered, controlling blood pressure, lipids, etc., was exercise. And even though I was a lifelong exerciser and loved to exercise, I just couldn’t believe it. It seemed so trite that exercise could have such a profound difference on the state of cognition, not just in terms of its performance as effectively a no tropic, but also in its ability to delay, if not outright, prevent dementia. So once we dug into the mechanisms, I think it became clear why exercise is so potent. And it’s basically that it is acting on so many different levels. So as you pointed out, it’s acting at a metabolic level. The brain is such an energy demanding organ, as you know, and maybe your listeners do, it weighs about 2 percent of your body weight, and it’s responsible for 20 to 25 percent of your energy consumption. So therefore, anything that disrupts that is catastrophic. So when you look at the improvements in glucose disposal, insulin sensitivity and all metabolic parameters, exercise is the most important tool we have there. When you look at the reduction of inflammation, vascular health improvements, again, exercise stands alone. When you look at the production of neurotropic growth factors such as BDNF, again, exercise is basically a drug for neurons. And so I think I eventually came around after a year or so to realize that, again, as simple as it sounds, exercise is such a potent tool. And you look at the brains of people who exercise a lot and you can see far less damage, not just microvascularly, but in terms of brain volume loss over time. So let’s talk about exercise from the perspective of a behavioral psychologist. So one of the things you learn as a behavioral psychologist is that it’s very difficult for people to change their attitudes or their actions. And it’s very difficult for people to change their lives. And so and we all know this because we might tell ourselves, for example, to exercise and we might be well supplied with arguments for why that’s a good idea. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that we learn how to incorporate an exercise routine into our life. And often the reason for that, there’s many reasons. I mean, exercise is difficult and that’s one reason. But it’s also often the case that people don’t form a strategy and break the problem down into steps that are simple enough to actually implement. So they think things like, well, I’ll go to the gym two hours a day, three times a week, and I’ll start that next week. And truth of the matter is they don’t have six hours to spend and they can’t tell themselves what to do anyways. And so what you do as a behavioral psychologist is you look at the simplest possible change that produces the maximal possible benefit. And so, for example, if people are listening and they want to begin to implement an exercise routine, like what about a daily walk of 10 minutes in the morning? Like, where would you start someone? So it completely depends on their baseline. But based on your question, Jordan, I’m going to take it as we’re talking about someone who’s doing no exercise. Yeah, let’s start with them. Yeah. So the good news is, first of all, and I accept the fact that not everybody is swayed by data, but I at least want to put it out there. So if you’re a person who’s in the doing zero exercise per week camp, the very good news is the benefit you get from going from zero to three hours a week is a greater benefit than anyone gets along the exercise curve. Right. So taking someone who’s at five hours and taking them to 15 will produce less relative benefit than going from zero to three. So, in other words, I want that person to see some real incentive for making this change. Secondly, I’ll put some numbers to it. Right. So going from no exercise to three hours a week approximately reduces your cause of your all cause mortality. That is to say death by every cause by 50% at any moment in time. So if you’re standing there asking, what’s the probability I’m going to die this year? Well, we can sort of actuarially figure that out. You get to cut that number in half by simply going from zero to three hours to exercise a week if you’re a non-exerciser. So, again, there’s going to be a subset of people for whom that’s a very powerful piece of information they didn’t know. So then what I would say was, how do you do that? So I agree with you that you’re much better off trying to do 30 minutes six times a week than three hours once a day or, you know, two hours, you know, in whatever fashion. So what I would say is the most effective way to do that is probably about 90 minutes of low intensity cardio. And for a person who’s not particularly fit, that’s going to amount to just brisk walking. Rather than tell them what to do, I tell them how to feel when they’re doing it. So what you want to feel is out of breath enough that you can barely carry out a conversation, but you could if you had to. But not so out of breath that you can’t carry out a conversation and not so easy that you can speak easily. So there’s that sweet spot in there. Physiologically, we call that zone two, but I’m not going to bore them with that nomenclature. It’s just basically 90 minutes, say three times 30 or two times 45 a week, where you’re just out of breath enough that you don’t want to talk, but you could if you had to. That’s part one. Right. So you push yourself past your, slightly past your simple level of comfort. That’s right. And so let me push on you a bit with regards to three hours a week. Again, from the perspective of taking someone from zero to somewhere. What are the benefits, let’s say you talked about the benefits of walking something approximating 20 to 25 minutes a day that can be dispersed out in various ways. You also mentioned like two 45 minute sessions or three 30 minute sessions. If someone, what would happen if someone goes from zero to like 10 minutes a day or an hour a week? Where do the benefits of that three hours? Yeah, that’s a great question. I don’t think we have the fidelity of the data at that level because you generally don’t push enough of a conditioning benefit. But I think what you’re getting at, and we do this as well, is you want to separate between the behavior change and the physiologic change. And for some people, and James Clear has written a lot about this, but I think a lot of people have come to the same conclusion with any behavior change. If it’s a person who’s never done anything, you’re right. The answer might be for every day when you wake up in the morning, rather than your normal routine of jumping in front of the computer, I want you to go and walk around the block once. It’ll take four minutes. But, and so I don’t want to represent you’re going to get a physiologic benefit from that. You probably won’t. But what you will get is you’re going to start to reset a behavior, which is, aha, the first thing I do in the morning now is this other thing. And we’ll slowly increase that. And at some point you will get a physiologic benefit. But what we’re doing is planting the seed of how to change the behavior. Yeah, well, you could always expand that over a year. I mean, one of the things, another thing I learned as a behavioral therapist, and this seems obvious, but it’s not obvious enough. So that people think about it or put it into practice is that your life is made up of the very small number of things that you repeat every day. And these are often things that people consider trivial. So, for example, lots of people sit down to have dinner with their family every evening and they don’t consider that special. But because you do it every damn day for an hour, an hour and a half, it’s like 8% of your life. So you only have to get 15 of those things in order and you have your whole life in order. Same thing applies to a daily habit. And so if you started, say, walking for 10 minutes a day, well, that’s 70 minutes a week and that’s four hours a month or 50 hours or one work week a year. And that’s a substantive change. That’s about 2% of your life’s your waking life, something like that, or at least 2% of your awake working life. And so it’s useful for everyone listening to understand that small changes that you maintain can be of radical importance. And once you’re walking for 10 minutes a day, it’s a hell of a lot easier to go to, say, 12 minutes than it is to go from zero to walking at all.