Rebellion - Neirum - Unfolding the Soul (_u-X6wqKKXk)

https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=_u-X6wqKKXk

Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Unfolding the Soul. Today my guest is Niram. He’s been on the Bridges of Meaning Discord where he has his strong opinions and that might be related to the subject that he chose to talk about which is rebellion. So yeah Niram, what does rebellion mean? Just a challenge in the status quo. Making sure that people are 100% certain about what they’re talking about and they’re on solid ground. That’s what it means to me. So how does that affect you like rebellion? For the most part throughout my life I’ve noticed that people are not 100% certain. They’re not on solid ground. A lot of it is a type of ego trip where they want people to follow you and they think that they’re good leaders when they’re not. They’re leading you straight into hell and they don’t care about it because they’re getting off on this sense of oh I’m the leader, I’m important, everybody’s listening to me and meanwhile these people actually trust you and they’re being led straight into the mud and it’s always really bothered me a whole lot to see that. So I don’t tend to do that. I don’t tend to go along with the crowd or doing what everybody else is doing. I question it very intensely and that leads to a lot of problems. I don’t like it when I do that but I like to think I’m doing it for everybody’s benefit. You know it’s a good thing to just ask a few questions. You don’t have to be an asshole about it. Just feel like what do you mean by that? Why are you doing that? What does that mean? And that tends to elicit some strong and even violent response by just rocking the boat a little bit. Yeah, because it’s scary to be on a rock boat. So yeah, when did that rebellious nature start to become apparent to you? My very first memories, my parents told me I was just always like that. Just always. I can’t pin it down to an exact moment in time or an event or anything like that. I don’t know what triggered that or made me that way. I’m not sure at all. But is there a moment that you became self-aware that you were doing it? That you started exploring it in some sense? I guess school teachers were like, why are you doing this? The other kids aren’t like this. You need to behave or whatever. And I guess then I was like, oh, everybody’s not doing this. I guess this is me doing this. At first I thought they were trying to rope me into a bad kid or something like that. But they weren’t. They were just like, you’re disrupting class. It’s not like I’m being a bad kid. They didn’t know what to define me as exactly because I never got in trouble at first for that kind of stuff. Later in school I started getting in trouble because I got into fights because I didn’t I would take kindly to certain behaviors of the other children as you get older and the behaviors become physical, like people pushing you and things like that. And then I would get into fights to defend myself and maintain my respect for myself. So then I started getting in trouble. But yeah, not at first. So I feel like there’s in some sense you have the adults and that was like a push and pull. But then when it came to your peers, they didn’t have the same capacity to deal with you in some sense. And then I always had to escalate this. Is that correct? Yeah. Like either people I could be really good friends with them because I did have good friends or it was like oil and water. Just a no go. And the same was true for teachers. Some teachers really liked me asking questions and they kind of mentored me or like took me under their wing and had some deeper conversations with me sometimes after class or with my parents explaining, he’s just asking some questions. There’s nothing wrong with that. I know maybe some other teachers said that he’s disruptive, but he’s just curious. He just wants to know a little bit about this, a little bit about that. So that was interesting to me to not outright be called a bad kid. That I was just maybe a little different. Maybe some people didn’t like that, but some people really did like that. So I leaned into that. I was like, okay, maybe there’s a silver lining here to my behavior, what I’m doing, what I’m all about, who I am. So I’m grateful to those teachers and those friends that I had that let me be who I am. So do you think curious would be a correct description or were you more contentious? No, curious, just genuinely curious. And that I think naturally leads to a rebellious streak in people. I do. Curiosity is not encouraged. It’s just not. I’ve noticed that forever. It drags you outside of the lines. Right. I wonder why this is like this. Why do you say that? What do you mean by that exactly? When you ask people to confirm things or to be a little more solid with their words, that upsets people. How does that change you? Are you being cast in a role and are you in some sense, acceptance of that role? Yeah, definitely. I see a lot of bullshit out in the world and it makes me upset and I actively go after it. Yeah, I do see it as a role that needs to be played, filled, and I’m well aware of the negative connotations to that, the negative side. I’m a difficult person to get along with because I just ask people questions. I don’t let things lay, even with friends and family, and they can either accept that or not. And I also really appreciate it when people do it back to me. It’s not like I get upset about it because I feel like they’re doing it out of love. They’re trying to look out for me. Like, what do you mean by that, man? What’s going on with you? What about that one thing that you said? I’m like, yeah, that’s a good point. And I appreciate that. And I’ve surrounded myself with people like that and I like it. I like the honesty. I like the curiosity and the care that comes from that. I think there’s a lot of strength that can come from that. So you said accept or not, right? So there’s an element where it’s really binary, right? Yes. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah, so I think I want to pick up on that later. I want to go back to your school, right? Is there an evolution that takes place? Yeah. I wasn’t always like that, but I learned it just doesn’t work out, you know, with because people want to try to change you or whatever. And that’s fine. I guess it’s just not for me. I know that I have faults. I know that other people have faults and I’m not out there trying to change everybody’s faults or anything like that. And I don’t appreciate it when people try to do that to me and that’s kind of what happens. That’s fine. I think conformity is fine for most people. It’s not fine for me. I used to be kind of upset. Everybody wanted to conform all the time and just go with the flow. I’m fine with that now. I accept it. I see that that’s impossible. You know, that’s not reality. That’s not real where, you know, more people are say like me, more rebellious, curious, asking questions, challenging. Things would probably fall apart. And I get that. I appreciate those people, even if they might not appreciate me. That’s fine. I’m okay with that now. Do you do conform to some things? Like how do you decide? I mean, yeah, sure. I mean, I speak English. It’s not like I rebelled so much that I made up my own language. Or you know, of course. Yeah, there are things I’d certainly conform to. Yeah. How do you make that decision? I still use money. I still have to use money. I drive a car. I don’t ride a horse. But yeah, I’m being a little facetious, I suppose. Yeah, of course, there are things that I conform to. But how do I choose what those are? That’s a good question. Why do I decide to rebel against certain other things? I don’t know. It’s more of a feeling. I’m not exactly certain. So what are you basing the feeling on? Is that something outside of you or something inside of you? I don’t know. It’s just a feeling. I’m like, hmm, I feel like I should say something. And then other times, I’ll be like, I should just keep my mouth shut. You know, this serves nothing and nobody maybe this might be a little egotistical for me to say something out loud, to rock the boat on this certain thing. So just shut up. Just don’t say anything. But other times, I’ll get this really intense feeling in my chest. And my throat will kind of tighten up. And then I will feel like I got to say something. This is wrong that nobody’s saying anything. I should say something, even if, you know, it burns some bridges. I’ll say it. I call it my heart compass. That’s just my own little personal thing. I’m like, I’m feeling something. It’s weighing on me. I’m going to say something. I’m going to rebel against this thing. The status quo thing right now. Let’s see what happens. So my mind is going to high school. In high school, people generally get their rebellious streak happen. So did you also have a rebellious streak within your rebellion? Yeah, I mean, I think I was like this in elementary school. I think that I was like this in kindergarten. In high school, I kind of wanted to just be left alone, really. Why? But things in college changed radically because I was being treated differently. And I became a lot more social. And I kept my mouth shut a lot more. And I tried to be a lot more understanding of other people and why they are the way they are, because I was like, why? You know, there’s got to be a reason that everything is the way that it is, because I was very angry, resentful teenager, blah, blah, blah. Is that why you retreated to resentment? Yeah, because I was like, I’m tired of being angry. You know, I don’t want to be angry at people. I want to understand people. And I want to be I want to be friends with them. And I want to be more social. And I want to be a part of a group of people and all this and that. So I started observing, I started thinking, and I started seeing that everybody has a role to play, you know, everybody has something that they’re doing. And that’s very important. And what can I do and how do I fit in? And what is what is my role? How do I fit into this whole thing here instead of being on the outside of things? And I figured that out through college and became a lot more social, but still true to myself. Yeah. So. Yeah, you said you were you were more silent and that in combination with defining your role. So so in some sense, that’s where your discernment starts happening, right? Like, I’m going to engage with this and I’m going to engage with that. Do you have a sense how you made that decision for yourself? Like how you. But what do you mean exactly? Like, well. So so let’s just say, right, like you’re you’re you’re standing on the side and you’re watching things happen, right. And now it’s like, I guess, this feeling in your heart or whatever is saying, well, now I got to go like this is this is where it happens. And then at a certain point, you reflect on that in some sense, which is like, well, you slip into a pattern, right? Like, oh, at these points, I speak up, right. And at these points, I let go that that’s kind of where. Right, right. I think. I think I just. High school was not any good. I had to just get out of high school. I left high school when I was 16. I didn’t finish it. And. And then when I that same year, I went to college. So I kind of skipped ahead of everybody. I didn’t know you could do that. But I was having such a hard time in high school. I was getting in a lot of fights. I was not getting along with anybody. Because I wouldn’t back down, you know, and when I got to college, I still didn’t back down, but I was with older people that could see where I’m coming from and with different professors. And. I was in a different crowd. And I think that allowed me to. Find that discernment. I don’t think it was helping me being around a bunch of hormonally charged teenagers that were feeling a lot of different things. I think it was very helpful when I was a teenager, when I was 16, to go to college and be around some older people that that. I could talk to. That was very helpful to help me find. That sort of discernment, because, you know, they didn’t have anything to prove. They weren’t trying to get into a fistfight with me. They weren’t trying to climb this high school hierarchy. They were just like, huh, this is a interesting younger kid. Why are you so young and why are you here in college? And what’s your story? What are you doing here? This is very interesting. And that engaged me in a whole other mode of thinking, a whole other mode of reality where I started to just chill out. I was like, OK, you know, everybody’s not out to get me. Everybody’s not trying to get into a fight with me. I don’t have to do all this rebellion and stand up for myself all the time. Here’s philosophy. Here’s a conversation. Here’s a discourse. I like this. This is very cool. I need to like tap into this, whatever this is that I’m experiencing here at college. And I liked it. It was the best thing that I ever did is quit high school and go into college and find a whole other path that was for me, whatever path everybody else was on that I was trying to follow along, that was just killing me. That was not. It was not working for me. It was not my path to take. So I had to change it. And my parents could see it, you know, and my friends understood it when I left. They were just like, you got to do something different, man. This is this high school thing’s not working for you. You’re not working out here. So I think that’s where the discernment came from. So you were talking about people being understanding. So I got two things in my head. Right. Like one is they’re playing a different game. Right. Like there’s rules. And you’re like, oh, within these rules, I can act out whatever impulse that is inside of me and and not transgress or at least not transgress as much. But there’s also the really being understood by so. So do you feel that you have that as well? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I especially got really close to my philosophy teacher and my logic professor and my writing professor. Like, I got close to so many people that were so much smarter than me. And for whatever reason, they appreciated something about me that people in high school hated about me. And I felt. Something I had never felt before from other people, and. It helped me grow. Into the man I am now, it was it was the best thing that I could ever done, really. And it happened when I was a teenager. It happened very early, whereas everybody else that I knew was just still kind of getting beaten down in high school. And whatever I had, I had was encouraged. It was like a a total flip, a total 180. I was like. This is great. I don’t know. It was it was great. How much how much more civil people were. In college compared to public high school. So I’m going to use two words. Did people also help you involve unfold in an agapic way? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Example of. People were. Brutally honest and loving. They weren’t doing it to be an asshole. They were doing it to be helpful. And I felt like that’s what I was doing for a while. And it was being reciprocated. And it felt great. It was. It was it was it was everything that I was looking for, really. And I know not everybody’s like that. You know, there are plenty of people that I didn’t really interact with in college or whatever, but there were there was enough diversity of thought there to where I was able to find my crowd and they were able to find me. And I was able to get into all kinds of other programs and and things. I got into the debate club. I got into. Theater, I got into the the model you in where, you know, we would act like we’re in the United Nations and and talk about. Politics and things like I just got into all kinds of different things and made all kinds of friendships with people and met people from all these different countries and cultures and had this true exchange of thought. I don’t know. It just opened my whole mind to other vistas of reality that I hadn’t even thought of. Yeah, it was great. Now, I don’t know about college today and we could get into that maybe. I don’t know if I would make it now. But years, years ago, it was it was the greatest thing that that happened to me. So, so. I’m imagining that that you you kind of start seeing your rebellious nature as a tool that you can employ. Yeah, a bit about that. Yeah. Yeah. You know. You can be. I’ve seen destructive, rebellious people that do things out of resentment, and I hate those people. I think constructive criticism is important for any society, any friendship, any family. And over time, people started to realize that’s that’s what I’m doing. You know, that’s my thing. I’m not doing it to be a destructive. I’m not doing it out of out of hatred. I just want to make things stronger. And I want to be sure that people are certain about what they’re doing and what they’re saying and just pointing out the foundations of their. Philosophy of their actions. And encourage them to do it to me, because I mean, I can’t see everything wrong that I’m doing, you know, that that’s why we need friends, you know, that that’s why we need people that like, hey, man, you got a booger hang out of your nose. You don’t need somebody ignoring it, not wanting to embarrass you. You want somebody to tell you got a booger, you know, and you need to clean your nose, man. You know, that’s I don’t want you to embarrass yourself. That that’s how I approach things. That’s that’s how I use that as a tool. Yeah, I think. But when you try and get up at the underlying foundations. And that requires a tool set. So so how did you develop a way of seeing or at least relating to to what is below? How did I develop a tool set? Yeah, like like what’s your how do you approach it is just asking right questions or or are you also trying are you also seeing something and trying to to bring it to light? Hmm. I haven’t really thought about it like that. I don’t know. I mean, I just kind of stumble into a room and I just start talking. And I start detecting certain things from the crowd, from the room. And I suppose I have a set of protocols that I follow depending on what that person’s archetype is. When I just, sorry, when I discovered Carl Jung, that changed a whole lot for me. And I got a lot of that. 1920, 19 or 20 years old around there. Yeah. I’m in my 30s now. So I’m not a big fan of that. I’m in my 30s now. So over 10 years ago, I discovered Carl Jung when I when I discovered that guy, I was like, wow, what what’s this guy talking about? What’s what’s going on with him? So when I started to identify certain archetypical roles that people are playing, I was like, OK, I need to be careful in this way. I need to be careful in that way. And most roles that people play, it’s fun. That’s great. You know, that’s that’s that’s your thing. But some roles are destructive. Some roles are filled with resentment and they just want to hurt other people or troll or control people, troll or control. That’s funny. But anyway. I just couldn’t stand people like that, and I would make it a point to. Kind of. Show other people. What those people are a troll slayer, if you will, I took that role upon myself and and I would. I guess challenge those people. Yeah, so that in my mind applies an act of dominance as well. Right. Like, yes. Yes, absolutely. So because I’m not unfamiliar to the things that you’re talking about. Right. But but the problem is, right, like when when you act out that behavior, right, especially to slay a troll, then you suck all the oxygen out of the wood. Right. Right. Now everything goes into OK. There’s a there’s a contention. Yes. And I’m usually the bringer of the news is the one that gets looked at funny because like, why are you bringing this harmony? Well, it wasn’t there. So so how do you deal with that? It’s more important that I do that than care about what people think about me. Yeah. So. So, yeah, so you have this this moral justification where. I guess some sort of integrity. Right. Like a certain level of integrity needs to be in place in the group in order for it to function properly. And if it’s not there, then you need to impose it. Yes. Yes. Absolutely, because I have seen communities, entire communities. Burn and fall apart. Because of people like that. Because people, good people will stop showing up. Because of this. They just these trolls run amok. And nobody will do anything about it. Nobody will say anything to them because they don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings or they don’t want to be the bad guy. You know, the bad guy that says something out loud. I understand that, you know, I’m not being the bad guy if I’m just calling somebody out that’s making everybody uncomfortable. You know, it’s not a bad thing. That’s a good thing. You know, we’re we’re supposed to do that. We’re supposed to watch each other’s backs. And more often than not, when I do stand up to these people, other people do it, too. You know, other people stand up and say something. You know, it’s not like they’re coming and just. You know, doing it for me or support, I don’t even know these people, they don’t even know me. It’s just like, oh, yeah. I’m sick of this shit, too. I’m glad this guy near him is saying something. I’m going to say something because I’ve been thinking that. And so what I’ll do is I’ll just kind of hang out and observe for a little bit. And then I will I will notice. I could just notice when people get uncomfortable or somebody is being too much of a troll or controlling the room. And I’ll have a pretty good sense of what most common folk are thinking. Because I’m thinking it. And I’ll kind of wait until the iron gets hot until I strike. And then I’ll say out loud. When I’m pretty sure everybody else is thinking, too. And then that’s when people like, yeah, you know, I’ve had that thought, too, for a while, and I’m sick of your shit, too, man. And, you know, you need to chill out. So that’s amazing. That that happens. I don’t know what’s going on exactly there. I just feel like I’m just saying what’s on everybody’s mind. Well, there’s a spirit there, right? Like there’s a spirit in the room and everybody’s kind of with it. But it needs to be spoken. Yeah, you just say it out loud and it’s like you burst this bubble of. Energy or something, and then everybody starts piping up or you start getting these DMS like. Yeah, somebody had to say that, you know, or whatever. And that makes me feel really good. And that that positively reinforces that behavior that you’ve seen me exhibit. Because somebody’s thankful for it. And then I end up being really good friends with those people and just kind of continuously grow. I guess my own type of community of people that appreciate each other for their honesty. So let’s take a step back to call it. Let’s see. OK, run through college. Yeah. Now what happens? Then I start a business, start a computer repair business. After I get out of college, I tried to work for a company and I worked for some people. I was a programmer and. I did a few other jobs, repair jobs. I. Yeah, that doesn’t work for me. I have to be my own boss. I’m just. I’m sure if it was like, I don’t know. I can’t. I can’t. I have to be my own boss. I just. I just have to be my. That’s the rebellious nature. Maybe I don’t know. I guess I just. It time and time again, every manager. Or boss that I’ve had. Is so incompetent. And so short sighted and egotistical. And has no desire at all whatsoever to help the company, the employees, or help anybody make more money that I always started rebellions at my at my jobs. And it never ended well, of course, so. I just went and started my own business and. And that that’s the best thing that I could have ever done. Yeah, it worked out. Yeah. A characteristic of rebellion is to overthrow. Hi, I can in some sense. Yeah, and that’s. Well, you make your own. You didn’t over throw. So there’s either a hesitation there or maybe there’s a moral constraint that you’re not willing to stop. There is a way of rebelling where you’re like, OK, I’m going to show these suckers how this stuff really works. And. Yeah, I was trying to take my boss’s job. Because I thought I could do it better. And. I had the support of the other employees and things, but just the way that. Corporate. Hierarchy. Hierarchies or policies work, they’re not interested. In having efficiency, they’re not interested in having. Competency. In management positions. I don’t honestly don’t know what they’re doing, but it’s not anything that I’m interested in. It seems to be a topsy turvy world of. Of just snakes, and I’m not interested in that. I’m interested in actually helping people, saving people money, making people money. That’s what I’m interested in. And a lot of companies don’t have that interest. Maybe there’s one out there somewhere. I don’t know, but I gave up looking and I just started looking. And I just started mine, so don’t know. So when you have your own company and you’re dealing with clients, do you? Do you get the rebellious nature there as well? Or is that the thing where we’re at? Well, it depends. I’ve only yelled at probably a dozen of my clients in my whole career. For the most part. Everybody’s very respectful. Everybody is very understanding and. And grateful for the for the amount of money that I can save them on repairing their electronic devices. There have been about a dozen people that were extremely disrespectful. You know, basically wanted to treat me like their personal slave. And we’re very demanding. Very rude. And I had no qualms whatsoever to tell them exactly where to go with their attitude. But it has not been that many people. But I am. I’m very happy that I put myself in a position where I can say no to nasty people. Just say no, like you can go and deal with somebody else and pay full price in the city for the same service that you could have had here. You know, I have the right to refuse service to you because I don’t like you. So get out. Yeah, but I haven’t had to do that very often. Thankfully, most people are are nice that I’ve come across in my business. So what happens? Past that, you have your business. What does your life take? I went on a lot of road trips. I went and saw America. I need to continue those. But with the lockdowns and everything, I just haven’t had it done. I just haven’t had a chance to do that. I’ve just been over this summer enjoying everybody getting out and about in my local community. And there’s been some bars that have opened up around here, some some local people that I’ve known my whole life that started their own businesses. And that makes me very happy. So I’ve been going there. I was just at one of them last night and where they had a little rock concert and we all got got up and did a little rock show. And we all got got up and danced together and talked. And that was a wonderful time. It was a local band, too. So so this year, I haven’t been traveling outside of my community. I’ve just been really enjoying my community’s revival after after the lockdowns and everybody getting to know each other again and talking and being social around here. But before then, I like to travel around and just go see different places. One of the last places that I went to. I’ve always been interested in building engineering. I went to school also. Well, I went to trade school for mechanical drafting, like mechanical engineering and drafting. We would draw up 3D models on this program called Adminter of airplane engines, just different various mechanical devices. And then we 3D print them and construct it and then blow air through it to see if it would function properly from our drawings. So anyway, long story short, I went to. Norfolk, Virginia, and I went to go see the shipyards and I went to go see these old battleships and go explore around there. And and then I hung out around the marina and talked to a bunch of fishermen and and I watched them bring in fish from the from the ocean. And then I would eat it and just kind of hang out and talk to them about boats. I don’t know, that’s just an example of one of the adventures I went on that I just I just love doing that that type of stuff. That’s that’s really fun for me. So, well, there’s a different culture there. So do you think those those cultures are more amenable to your personality there? I don’t know. I don’t know. I like it where I’m at. People know who I am at this point in my community and. They I’m accepted here. And I like that that’s that’s priceless to me. That’s. I mean, he just can’t beat that, you know. So I like I like it here, but I also like it there. But what I want to live there, I don’t know. I’m not much of a city person. You know, I’m just I’m more of a rural guy. I like I like the. The serenity of. A low population and a forest and creeks and rivers and streams and wildlife everywhere. That’s. That’s more my thing. Actually, you know, can I do this? Yeah, that’s that’s what I’m looking at. That’s it’s just the forest right there, right off my my back porch there and right there is a nice creek. Oh, that’s really. Yeah, there’s my little garden and stuff, so yeah, that’s just my. Thing that’s that’s what I want to do. That’s where I want to be. I don’t like the concrete jungle. Mm hmm. Yeah, but you did. I was I was trying to point out the culture more so than the city. Well, the the culture comes from. Your surroundings to the people here, you know, have to contend with this environment and the weather, we have really intense seasons. You know, we got hot summers, freezing winters. It’s got it all here. And I like that, and I think that it has a huge impact on the culture and how people are people here are really tough. But they also know how to have a really good time. And they’re very honest and they all talk amongst each other to see. You know, some people call it gossip. I call it a parody error check. It’s just like. The way that people make sure everybody’s on the up and up. You know, by talking to one another, so everybody knows everything. And I like that. I like that about this community. It shows that people care, whereas in a city that becomes an impossible task to know somebody. You know, it when you when you’re talking about somebody or you’re you’re introducing somebody, they’ll be like, oh, who’s your who’s your mom? Who’s your dad? Do you know this person? You know that person? They’re they’re trying to make. The connection to you, they’re trying to find a way. To. Figure out who you are. And I appreciate that. I like that. I think there’s a utility in that. So you you also had a adventure in in your community. Hmm. Relating to. Your disagreeableness, right? Yes. Take responsibility when they get into that a bit. Yeah, that was more when I was a teenager, when people didn’t I guess know what to do with me. And then I went off to college and I came back and. Offered a business and. At first, people didn’t know what to do with me or they were surprised. That’s more what it is. They were surprised at what I had made myself into. And I guess that was kind of. Positively. Yeah, they were positively surprised. They were insulting for you that they were. Yeah, that was a little insulting. Well, what do you think I was going to turn out as or what do you mean exactly by that? So so you’re focusing on the negative aspect instead of, like, they kind of know appreciate who I am. Right. Yeah, yeah, because I never thought I was going to end up. Negative place or I was like, I’m going places, you know, I’m I’m going to make some cool stuff happen. I’m going to do this thing. And I guess other people had some other. Ideas about where I was going to end up. And yeah, yeah, of course, that insulted me, of course, I was. Upset by that, so. But there is there’s that rebellious part of me, it was like, well, I showed you, I showed all of you for sure, like. Here we go. I’ve done something totally different. And, you know, the people that. I guess they had positive thoughts and ideas for they ended up in real negative places. So there’s that’s funny to me. There’s a certain amount of irony in that. I mean, I wish those people wouldn’t have ended up. In the gutter, in really bad spots. Yeah. I don’t know. That’s a whole other rabbit hole, though, you know. What I think about that. Maybe I don’t know if they would have. Challenge the status quo a little more, maybe that would have been a little bit more, maybe that wouldn’t have happened to them. I don’t know, because that they were these people that just kind of went. Along the way that they were expected to. And they followed their leaders and they listened and. It didn’t work out. Well, it doesn’t answer that road, right? Like, there’s no always someone in front of you. Sometimes, right, right. You have to deal with stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So but that’s a whole other rabbit hole anyway. I got over being insulted and I was just like, well, I’m glad. We can all be friends and in this community together. Great. Let me fix your cell phone. Here’s your computer. Your radio has been soldered. Yeah, I’ll install your security system. Yeah, I’ll set your camera up. So after I got. Reintegrated in the community as as a man, things are great. I love it. It’s wonderful. I feel appreciated. They feel appreciated. With my low prices, I try to. Cut my prices in half compared to the city and try to undercut the competition because I can do that. Whereas in a city, the rent is so high, they basically have to charge you an arm and a leg just so that they can eat and feed their family. So there’s an advantage to living in a rural area. Cost of living is not that high and I can. Give people these affordable prices, and that also means that I can take in business from the cities, too. Like people will mail me stuff and or drive out here even to have me fix their stuff. So it’s good for me. And you went into the city council as well. Chamber of Commerce. Yeah. Yeah. Because you were struggling with that a little bit, right? Like how how does it should be? Yeah, just, you know, people say that they want to pitch in and help and make the community better, but. They don’t actually want to do any work. You know. So, yeah, that was the problem. I was well, not just me, everybody on the chamber was running into. We’ve solved some of that. I’m. Not in the ways that maybe I I would have wanted, but. You know, it’s not about me, it’s it’s about the community, what the community wants, and I guess that’s a very difficult thing to figure out because the community will say they want one thing and then you’ll try to do that thing and nobody shows up. And then you’ll do some other totally different thing, and then everybody shows up when you had no idea that they were even interested in that thing. So. So, yeah, yeah, that’s. Interesting. Sounds like there’s there’s again, two two spirits, right? Like like the same problem that you’re contending with, like people, they say they want to one thing and then you dig a little and then there might be nothing there. And then there’s this other thing and they’re completely. Ignoring it, the shadow would be. So I’ll get a little more specific. You know, we planned a lot of like fun activities and interactive things to try to do with the community, social things. That everybody said they wanted and were interested in and that was free. Nobody showed up. We have some food trucks. Come to the town. With food, that’s like two or three times the price. Of where you could get it at a restaurant. Everybody shows up. All the food trucks sell out. And those food trucks make bank like they make thousands and thousands of dollars. And the town make has nothing from it, just the just these food trucks that come in. And then they make their money and they leave. I’m like, OK. I don’t get it like, OK, you still that’s it. Yes, special new stuff that’s extremely expensive. And, you know, the most social interaction that people get is while they’re waiting in these very long lines as well for this triple priced food, they’ll have a little conversation with each other. And apparently, that’s what they want. And, you know, OK. OK. All right. So. I’ll just leave it at that. Yeah. So are we are we kind of like approaching the presence or is this something? Oh, yeah, this is this was recent. Yeah, this this just happened. But hey, if everybody’s happy, I’m happy. Great. I just didn’t know. That I was trying to do stuff for people that were that was free, and I was trying to do. I was just trying to listen to people and do what they were saying. And I guess that’s not what you’re supposed to do. So I don’t know. I am glad that, you know, like the local bars, they they have become a great social area and people really appreciate that. And we’re having some local music come in and and play. So that’s amazing. I’m very, very happy about that, because that’s the kind of stuff that I was trying to get going. Like have some bands play at the park and. Just people hanging out for whatever. I would have preferably wanted to do it without drinking, but, you know, like have some families involved or whatever. But that’s all taken care of itself. There’s this guy in town that has these big inflatable things and all the kids go jump on it. And so that’s taking care of the family side and the bars are taking care of the adult side. Everything’s kind of taken care of itself. And I guess I was just sort of. Wasting my time doing this other stuff. But great, whatever. I’m glad other people have taken up the mantle and solved these problems and figured it out. And the community is flourishing. That’s everything that I could have ever hoped for as a chamber of commerce person, that people start taking personal responsibility for their own lives. Personal responsibility for the community. And it’s not a burden on a few individuals that everybody’s kind of finding their niche of what they’re needing to do and making it happen. But it was certainly a learning experience for me. Of, you know, maybe don’t try so hard and. Leave things alone and stuff sort of naturally takes care of itself. Yeah. So are there still areas where you feel like your rebellious nature is a problem for you? No, no, no. It’s just who I am. People know that about me. And, you know, there’s plenty of people that don’t like me, but there’s also plenty of people that do like me. So I guess I have a polarizing personality. And I accept that. I’m OK with that. There’s there’s some people that have a few choice words for me, and I have a few choice words for them right back. And. Yeah, I’m all right with it. I don’t see it as a problem. Yeah, it’s all worked out for me. It’s I’m fine with where I’m at and I’m fine with my reputation that I have in my community. Yeah, I accept it. I’m happy with it. So do you do you see. A generative side to the rebellious nature that you feel the need to explore still. A generative or degenerative? A generative. A generative. Well, I don’t like the generative. Oh, generally positive, like it’s generating something good. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I stand up and say things to, you know, the mayor. I’ll say things in the Chamber of Commerce. I’ll say things to the city council. I’ll say stuff out loud in the bar. I’ll just call people out and usually other people will, you know, just like you’ve seen in discord, like other people like, yeah, you know, I’ve been having those same thoughts, like that applies anywhere, any social social situation. I did a little bit of that last night at the bar. So that was good. I just, just myself, I’m just out there being myself and the chemistry takes place and. Do you want to take that somewhere? Like, do you kind of want to make a career out of that or something? A career? I don’t know. No, no, just no. No, everything that I can imagine, right? Like maybe, maybe not being in the leading role because you have this polarizing aspect to you, but being in a high level advisory role that would be really suitable for that personality. Right. I don’t know what I could do. I don’t know what I could do with that. Just I think it’s beneficial to my personal life and my business. I don’t know. I honestly don’t know what in the world I could do because. A little bit. Come on. I don’t know. I mean, I don’t really like telling people what to do or what they should do with themselves or any of that. That’s I don’t feel like that’s my place. I don’t feel like that’s my role. I think my role is there’s like these gates to the door. There’s like these gatekeepers and I kick the gates down and I let people decide if they want to walk through those or not. That’s kind of how I see myself. I don’t want I don’t like want to tell people you should go through this gate and you should go through like how do I should I know who the hell am I to tell people that? What do I know? But I do know when somebody’s being an asshole. I do know when somebody’s leading people astray. I do know when somebody’s doing something they shouldn’t be doing and I’ll stand up to those people. I’ll say something to them and I’ll challenge them. Yeah. And I’ll rally people against those people. That’s that’s what I do. So so in a sense if we’re looking at the scales of justice, you’re always hopping on the one that’s that’s a higher up to bring it onto balance. That’s a great way of putting it. Yeah, that’s that’s what I like to think that I’m doing. I hope that’s what I’m doing. People say that’s what I’m doing. So yeah. So where do you see yourself going in five years? Are you trying to settle down or like are you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have some kids. Yeah. Get married. Sure. Yeah. I don’t want to go. I mean, I’m happy. I don’t I don’t think of it in those terms like I think I’ve made it. I’ve made it where I want to be, man. I’m very happy. I hope I can keep it. That’s I hope I can keep things the way they are. So what can you do to keep things the way they are? I just keep doing what I’m doing. Yeah. Thank you. You feel that’s sufficient? Like there’s no no nothing else calling onto you. I’d like to start a band. That’d be fun. No, I don’t I don’t I don’t have any. No, no, I’m. Start a band, start a family. Yeah, just yeah. Yeah. Maybe make a funny movie with my friends. That’d be cool. Just I don’t know. I don’t I don’t like. Oh, I want to be a millionaire or or I’m going to go. Be a politician or or I’m going to go and be this leader or like no, I just. I just want my community to flourish. I want everybody to have a nice job here. Sometimes the world puts you in that role, right? Well, if it does, I’ll do it. But you know, it’s not like something I’m actively seeking out. You know. Yeah. Yeah, I don’t I don’t think people would. Want to want to follow me anyway, they. And I don’t want I don’t want that either. I don’t want to tell people what to do. It makes me feel weird. Makes you feel uncomfortable. Because I don’t like people telling me what to do. Like, so why would I want to tell them what to do or whatever? It’s got that would kind of. Go against the grain of my personality. So so I feel like like you at least reached the plateau and. And you don’t really feel the need to to get off it, at least right now. So yeah, then the question kind of becomes, what would you. Tell. What aspects of your behavior would you give over to your kids and what would you. Have them refrain from? Well, I don’t know if that’s. Up to me. I think ideally, right? Like, let’s just say it is up to. I’ve never really thought of that. I don’t know. They’re going to come out the way they’re going to come out. And I’m going to have to do my best to help them. Fill in their role that they were born to do. I guess that’s what I believe. And not, you know, tell them that this is wrong or that’s wrong. Like, it’ll be my job to see. What are they trying to do? What are they trying to get at? What’s their goal? And as long as it’s not destructive or anything, and I don’t have to like correct it. I want to help them. I want to help them become who they are, like my parents did with me. And not. Trip them up along the way, like I see other parents do with their children. Or try to shove them into a mold. My parents didn’t do that with me. They were like, this kid’s different. He’s going to have to walk another path that most kids don’t. And I wish other parents would have done that with their children. As I said, maybe those kids wouldn’t have ended up in the gutter. As I said, we’re in a really bad place. It’s extremely important to have good parents. That see you for who you are. And try to help you. Instead of hurt you. Instead of trying to force you into a mold that you don’t belong in. Yeah, so that’s how I’d answer that question. So I hear you saying that in some sense you want to see what’s behind. The actions of your children. Yeah, the children. Yeah, cooperate with with that. Yeah. So do you have a good sense of what that would require of you? Like what? Like the way that you want it to be? I’ve just seen a lot of parents do the wrong thing. So I’m just going to not do that. Yeah, that’s all I know. I don’t know. I’m not a parent. I’m not exactly sure. That’s part of the journey of being a parent. There’s not an instruction manual. Sure, they got some books, but what the hell do they know? You know, it’s not your kids are different than their kids. You know, so. Yeah, I’m reading something in a book and acting it out are also two completely different things. Right. Totally. Absolutely. So yeah. Yeah, so I guess I still because I feel like you’re really resistant to making things concrete. There’s just is an element where it’s like, oh, no, it needs to be floaty because like, no, I guess I’m projecting a little bit or assuming. But if you don’t make it floaty, it becomes like a judge. And I feel like you don’t want to go there. Well, there are certain things that I am very concrete about. But there are other things where there’s room for interpretation with me. And I think that’s important. But yeah, there are certain things that I have a very solid concrete stance on where it’s binary. It’s very black and white for me. But, you know, so like with kids and stuff like that’s that’s there’s a lot of variables with that. That’s a that’s something that I don’t feel like should be so concrete. You know, you need to kind of be adaptive for the sake of the child. But if you get if you get very specific with situations, I can become more concrete with things. So I guess the last thing I want to put together for you down is we have these kids and you have your community. So what’s what’s the community you want to have for your kids? Like are the things that you want to? Well, I plan on homeschooling my kids, first of all. So I’ve already looked deeply into the homeschooling community and I really like it. Like they get together on the weekends, the kids of the homeschool parents and they have events and play sports and do all that kind of thing. Because because public school was not good for me. And if my kids are going to be anything like me, I don’t know if it’ll be good for them. If they want to go, they can go. But in there, when they’re young, I don’t want them in there. If they want to like go to high school or something for social development or whatever, great. But you know, kindergarten up to like fifth grade or so, I want to definitely protect them from what school has turned into. You know, I don’t want to get your channel banned or anything getting into that conversation, but I have a lot of problems with what public school has turned into. So that’s the type of community that I want my kids to be in is a homeschool community of independent, rebellious, even free thinking families. And I want them to associate with people in a community like that. So that’s my plan. And as they get older and start becoming their own people, they can make some decisions for themselves. And I’m going to have to respect that and help guide them as best as I can and keep them keep them safe and on a good path. So yeah, it sounds like like there is an aspect of the rebelliousness that you do want to impart upon them. Like you think that’s necessary to be a good person? I do. Yeah, I do. Yeah. But if they don’t, if they want to be, go with the flow and be with everybody else, you know, I’m going to have to accept that. And that’s who they are. And that’s not a bad thing. As I said at the beginning, I used to have some resentment towards society when I was a teenager. Like, why isn’t everybody more rebellious and curious and blah, blah, blah? But, you know, everything would fall apart. You know, that’s not a good model for society to follow. It’s supposed to be a challenge. You’re supposed to have people like me and you’re supposed to have people like that. And they balance each other out. If I have a good point, it’ll change things. If I don’t have a good point, it’ll fall flat. And that’s the way it should be. Okay. Do you feel like you still want to bring something up? Can’t think of anything. I don’t know. Have you got any more questions? Well, I got a question. What is your takeaway from the conversation? Yeah, you asked me some things that I have never really thought about. I guess that’s the point of this discourse. Because, you know, things don’t naturally occur to you and you can’t really see things about yourself unless somebody is asking questions and getting you to think about it. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, this conversation is very much in line with my philosophy and how I have conversations with other people. And I’ve had similar conversations with my friends, you know, just us kind of interviewing each other about why we are the way we are. So I appreciate that about your format here. But some of the questions I haven’t been asked before, like the tool set question, like what are your tools that you… That was very interesting to me. I had never really thought about it like that. So yeah, I appreciate that. Well, I want to invite everybody who’s watching to leave their takeaways in the comments. So maybe Niren gets a different way of looking at himself from… Right. That’d be great. Yeah. Yeah, I’ll be on your channel sometime. Yeah. Yeah, I just kind of have a pre-flowing type of wherever it goes, man. We’ll go there. I’ll be there. Right on. Thank you, everybody, for watching. And I’ll see you guys on the next Unfolding the Soul. Yeah. Thank you very much, man. Appreciate it. See you.