https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=Nwa3pxsTm94
Let’s say at the at the least I think that there’s a manner in which understanding this or at least the notion of intelligence and agency can help us understand that the way of representing the world that is more traditional is in line with this. That is that the ancient way of representing the world with gods and patron saints and patron angels, there’s a manner in which this is closer to that reality than the one that we have now which is this kind of the the sense in which we don’t even have a theory like we do it right we still celebrate teens we saw mascots we still have all these things we rely on but we don’t understand it’s not it’s as if it’s not part of our worldview but we still do it at the same time. Yes I want to acknowledge that right up there’s a performative contradiction in thinking that agency is atomic and individualistic right and then relying on you know airlines and electric grids and the internet and blah blah blah blah that are clearly cases of distributed cognition and collective intelligence. What’s interesting of course with something like the internet is it’s this weird blend of humans and computers that is making it and creating it and running it and it obviously transcends any computer it transcends any individual brain and it just keeps growing and developing and taking on properties and a kind of complexity. There’s a I think Sawyer wrote a science fiction novel that it that you know that that it’s plausible that the internet will actually achieve the kind of complexity and density and bandwidth we see in a brain and then it would start to have a kind of consciousness on its own which is a frightening thought. I think it definitely already has agency and at least I think that’s clear I think that’s clear and like I said when we were talking last time in very many ways people have a a sacred religious relationship to the agency of the internet they treat it like an oracle they treat it like a spirit they treat it like a god in a lot and in like I find it funny but in a sort of Kafka-esque way that people who play religious then interact with the internet through their phones in they devote hours a day right and they’re paying attention and they’re getting advice and like and like it’s very very religious behavior. Yes and so one of the aspects of the agency for example I think is a good way to understand it maybe you can tell me what you think is is really even now using a kind of Darwinian lens which is that let’s say the main the main aspect of agency is something like self-preservation at the level of the being and so we we can say that the internet has intelligence to the even to the extent and agency even to the extent that it just tries to self-perpetuate and the people that are playing roles at the lower levels the companies the you know the tech people you know they want to cap they know that the internet exists through attention and so the entire the internet itself becomes a let’s say run by attention and that and that attention is what makes it continue to exist like the more attention that more people give to the internet in general the more that it will especially in its user interface obviously there’s a whole aspect of the internet which is not user yeah not user interface like wires and and stuff like that but to the extent where it interacts with our consciousness that’s what makes it continue and so it’s as if there’s a but the reason why I’m saying that is that there’s a sense in which we’re kind of doomed if that’s the case because the the monster or the the creature the being it really is asking for worship like it appears very low at a low level but as it scales up it becomes more and more evident that it’s asking for something like worship something like yeah primal attention yeah like this is where you get your worldview this is where you get your information this is where you get truth this is where you learn what it means to be human even almost yes yes I agree with you I think that the internet is at least something like a Greek god in the way it you know encompasses the like like it’s not it’s not again it’s not in one place it’s ubiquitous I’m not saying it’s omnipresent but it’s ubiquitous right it’s ubiquitous and it’s it’s coordinating people’s lives it’s training people’s attention it’s asking for devotion it’s asking for identification you identify with your avatars and you’re right there’s yes there’s a lot of behavior that like as soon as you step outside of familiarity and try to look at it through my more anthropological lens you’ll say well this they clearly have a religion and their religion is the internet but the I guess the difference for me is um and that’s why I used the Greek god purposely uh you know the Greek gods are uh had uh they they had no moral they had no moral direction the Greek gods just represent sort of primordial powers and they’re important later on under the pressure of Platonism and others they started to become moral agents but initially they’re not um and so I guess that’s what I was trying to convey when I think the internet is like a bronze age deity right it’s right it’s it’s it’s like Seth of ancient Egypt or something it’s this it’s this power um that people identify in and with and does all the things we’re talking about but it doesn’t have um it doesn’t have a moral directedness to it it’s not an it’s not an agent that is self-organized towards helping us become wiser um which I think is that’s an important difference yeah it’s I mean it is like you said it’s it’s more it’s looking for propitiation and it’s and it’s looking to be sadist it’s looking for to capture to capture us so that we could because we can sit constitute its body in a certain in a certain way like in the same way that if you understand the way a Greek god would function is that they the Greek god would have temples with people sacrificing animals to the god in order to provide body for that god in the world like places where they they they step let’s say and they they have anchorage and so we are that’s what we are for the internet we’re basically the anchor because without us the internet obviously doesn’t the internet needs us as a body but I think also the Greek gods and the ancient gods needed humans as a kind of body you know in order to celebrate them and to make them to have let’s say that there will be done in the world you needed humans and casts of priests and all these things that would enact the the enact the the identity of the god in in reality yeah and I think that I mean speaking as a naturalist I think that was the reality of it still is I’m not saying I believe in zeus or but you know there’s a sense in which Aries is is is taking shape in Ukraine right now right and and you know and war is this thing right it’s maybe the pathetically maybe it’s the most collective thing we do which and so thinking that war can’t take on a life of its own look we are terrified not unjustified that if we do anything wrong this will spin off yeah right and who well no one person is going to make that happen and that ability for things to spin off and consume us that’s Aries that’s the Greek god Aries or Eros Eros like if you don’t believe that Eros is real like wow I don’t know what like I don’t know what that means so yeah and I think the internet is like that so you