Muppets ARRRG US, TWO! Live Navigation! (wSWmjAPd2vE)

https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=wSWmjAPd2vE

young girl dancing to the latest beat has found new ways to move her feet and the lonely young man speaking in the city square trying to tell somebody that he cares can you play the voice of youth asking what is true yeah the ones that you’ll call in love are gonna be the leaders in a little while what is true it’s all world’s waking to a newborn babe and I solemnly swear it’ll be their way you better help that voice of you find what is true and the lonely voice of you cries what is true all right welcome in wrong is in on time this time lovely well as you saw from the thumbnail in the title you really don’t have a specific topic I’m gonna talk about a bunch of things tied them together talk about meaning crisis intimacy crisis stuff we got our Sam Pell of all right and some of it’s already in the cop the correct cup for drinking all liquids all liquids and of course we have some tea from the table rock tea company wintergreen tea very nice they pick it in the wrong season effectively quite the interesting flavor and then I got some fig bars the kind that don’t make me sick when I eat so that’s that a lot of threads have been coming up recently and today was a busy day I was getting deposed in a lawsuit very fun not recommended don’t run out and try to do it so I’m a little tired but I got I got home in time so I will do a stream and it’s part of the reason why we don’t have a theme the other one is yeah I’m picking one earlier in the week either because things were more busy and moving fast everyone’s been all over the place but also you know I mean it’s time for a little wrap up a little roll up a little you know it’s post Halloween right we’re into November coming up on on Thanksgiving here in the US it’s kind of on Christmas right all this stuff is sort of imminent and yesterday I was at an entrepreneurship conference you know for people starting businesses right shouldn’t really be expecting you know too much meaning crisis talk and yet there it was one of the themes at least of yesterday I didn’t go today because I had to go somewhere else one of the themes was the why why are you doing this why are you starting a business why are you running your business right and they emphasize was not for money right it’s not how entrepreneurs think they don’t think about the money that’s usually why businesses fail if you don’t think about the money your business is gonna fail usually because people will steal your money vendors or partners or whatever but you always have to think about the money it’s it’s a balance it’s a balance one we don’t like but also one we have to have and they were talking about this lack of purpose they were talking about what drives people they were talking about how under you right grounding yourself in your why all of the sorts of things right and then of course the art conference is going on and that’s Jordan Peterson’s you know humans against evil humans or something I can’t figure it out and you know one of my deep criticisms of arc is they went the wrong way immediately human flourishing wow you know human define that one flourishing define that and now define human and flourishing together and now juxtapose that with all the constraints right which you haven’t mentioned so you know if human flourishing means everyone gets an extra arm you know like then how many extra arms do we have if we can’t make extra arms for everybody since they can’t flourish what do we do with them and the reason why I mentioned that is because that’s the argument people end up with oh we can’t raise up everybody which is true therefore the people who can’t meet our standard are going to be removed from our society thereby standardizing our society which is technically correct if you could do that that would work but it’s also evil even if you could do it and it would work it’s worth considering Jonathan Peugeot gave this great talk at arc not only criticizing exactly what I was criticizing flourishing but a number of other things as well and he used terms like ineffable which I was like yes that is the correct term to use that’s the term I’ve been using for years now because it’s the correct term to use so I was quite pleased I think if you listen to the Jonathan Peugeot talk at arc you will hear a lot of the terminology that we’ve been using on the Mark of Wisdom Discord server that Manuel and I have been banding about for some years now and language from my streams like it’s all right there so I’m pleased that these things are sort of coming to a head to some extent and that we’re making progress in some you know real fashion towards you know recognition no matter where you’re starting from that something resembling a meaning crisis which again it is caused by the intimacy crisis is the problem and it’s the problem in multiple areas I mean I have a personal YouTube channel it’s just my name I talk about parallels I haven’t done a video lately between computers and the meaning crisis and how the meaning crisis already manifest in the entire computer industry that’s there but there’s a lot of other things you know there too like I said this entrepreneurship meeting right there was an ontology room and clubhouse for a year and a half two years something’s crazy I don’t know it’s still going on because they do it right about now and I don’t attend anymore because I’m here for you guys they were running into the same thing you know what is meaning how do we define meaning right and they know they’re they’re software engineers trying to figure out a software problem or so they think and they’re bumping up against Plato and that’s another thing Jonathan Peugeot mentioned in sock yes but then when you you know when you look around and you you know people are like oh what’s the problem with medicine well the problem with medicine is that you know you can’t find doctors that care oh what the hell’s care and how do you measure it and meaning crisis anyone it’s a good posting on Twitter about build more hospitals not churches which just you know like yes I know two years of past history I don’t so I went in and said all hospitals were run by churches all of them take until not too long ago like two generations at most this hospitals run by businesses thing is recent and it’s ironic right these are the same people blood-sucking corporations are have control of our hospitals and that’s the problem okay maybe give them back to the church is where they were dumbass just saying never occurs to them right and then this guy doubled down on will you have the government to call that over and you know I pointed out charity was a function of the church right which is modern-day welfare right no education church right all these things came out of the church right they were born from the church and he’s a little government does a much better job and I was like yeah you know nobody thinks that nobody thinks government does a better job at anything ever just not the way people are so you see people trying to dress the sort of results of the intimacy crisis slash meaning crisis right you see people going hey there are these symptoms of this thing and what’s the thing and what are these symptoms and let’s get to the bottom of it and what they’re really doing is they’re talking about the meaning crisis and they don’t even necessarily know it although as I said a lot of people are sort of converging on the loss of meaning the lack of meaning the lack of a tell us or a why right the lack of a of a clear purpose right the idea of caring and and sort of the whole empathy movement was very much along these lines right oh what we need is just more empathy and that’ll fix that we just had empathy for one another that’s just more care right that’s just additional care for people and like fair enough I’m I’m all in on that part but that’s not enough and look some people don’t have the skill of care they don’t know how to do it they don’t know how to care about things outside themselves and you know we had a narcissist narcissism movement around the fake news virus scam same thing right this is just lack of care about anything outside yourself that’s would make you narcissistic the whole idea of people not feeling permanence of not feeling as though they belong right they don’t have a place that domicide this is all meaning crisis stuff meaning crisis stuff and that’s what’s interesting to me is that excuse me it keeps cropping up in all these unexpected places in in unexpected ways people are discovering the meaning crisis they’re discovering that there’s a problem they’re seeing the symptoms of that problem manifesting in the thing they pay the most attention to and they end up starting to use a lot of the same language that people of jordan peterson sphere have been using people who use sort of john verveckis uh language you know those words are outside of that sphere and you notice some sort of interesting trends right people like talking about problems and you can take you take something like john verveckis meaning crisis do a quick perusal of the numbers and see the fall off in the meaning crisis playlist numbers and then you can look at after socrates hit that playlist and you can see those numbers are relatively lame compared to the meaning crisis numbers same guy better more polished message better videos in some sense i mean i think video editing is terrible but better than meaning crisis video quality wise absolutely content wise absolutely not um and i’ve watched them all i got burned out after the first one and watched part of the second one and you know i was crying too hard so the loss of a great man with a lot to offer and i think you see that attenuation too in paul vandu clay’s best hits are over too uh i don’t think that’s going to reverse it could reverse itself but not only that’s going to reverse itself either people have gotten off point of meaning crisis they’ve gotten off point of what peterson was pointing to this is the peterson sphere whether you like it or not you can hide in your little corner if you want but that’s not where you are and it’s not your corner and you can’t hide there but you can trap yourself there if you’d like the movement that jordan peterson created and pushed forth that changing of attention from the material to the ethereal to the mysterious to the potential to the art from the is it’s a big deal begs the question which i often ask and point out to everybody why didn’t the church do that and by the church i mean the body of the church right not just the individual church administrations or hierarchies per se but anybody in the church and what you see is a bunch of people trying to be jordan peterson and failing miserably if the ethereal is your thing and you think it would be if you’re a church then why is this secularist beating you at talking about the ethereal at pointing to the ethereal at getting you attend to that which is non-material it’s a good question it’s a nice self-reflection in some sense it’s a nice positive critique that has enough contrast to be useful because there’s a way in which the cause of the meaning crisis crisis is the church’s inability to keep people attending to the ethereal because the church is all about attending in various different ways caring about the ethereal aspect of the world the failure isn’t some meaning crisis brought about by the rise of science the rise of science is due to a lack of pushback against overly scientific thinking excuse me and it’s hard because how much do you push back against something that successful how much do you push back against something that gives people that sense of power and power how much do you push back against something that gives people that sense of power and control and that leverage of force whenever you have a leverage of force you also have a leverage of threat of force how did we end up in a place where people are simultaneously asking for equality and saying we don’t like guns guns is a power equalizer women and men have equal power with equal weaponry or at least more equal power with equal weaponry and the same people who preach equality doctrine those same evangelicals of equality are the same people who hate are the same people who hate things that make people equal it’s a very mysterious thing it’s an odd contradiction and i mean i’m going to push back on it nathaniel but i don’t think you’re wrong uh nathaniel if the church wants to beat the occult it needs to at least acknowledge the mystics once again a very christian frame not opposed i think it’s correct i mean i’m i’d push back on that it’s it’s not the right way to frame it but it’s not a bad way to frame it especially if you’re christian um you know saying occultism is bad to occultists they’re like i don’t know what you’re talking about um using the term mystic is just going to be like yeah we were right all along because we’re mystics uh and yeah the church has a problem with the mystics for that reason i think and that’s more to the point like we have this movement this peterson’s sphere growing into areas that you never thought it would affect and look the prophet of the meaning crisis is carl benjamin in his persona sargon of a cad if you haven’t seen sargon of a cad youtube channel and gone through the gamergate playlist you just don’t see the pattern he lays it all out he makes a bunch of predictions all of his predictions have pretty much come true every single one all of the predictions he made guys like jordan peterson and brett weinstein were making about the universities but carl benjamin already made those predictions he said it’s going to come to you too i believe he called out universities this is going to come to the universities and i believe there is in some sense although this is bad framing and awakening but it’s not a positive type of awakening right it’s more of a movement of the zeitgeist towards the awareness of the scope of the problem that’s a lot of words mark everybody’s seeing a problem in the thing they know best and when they start to try and talk about it they eventually end up near meaning crisis-y language near ineffable caring justice love virtues and value talk than anything else and the interesting thing for me is as more and more people notice in their little niche world that they care about the most these meaning crisis issues and then notice oh wait this pattern is playing out in our schools in our universities in our culture and i have a video on the culture wars i don’t think there’s and i have a video on the cultural wars i don’t think there’s a cultural war right there’s the fight of many things that can never manifest culture against the tyranny of culture itself and fair enough i mean culture is a tyranny man to that extent you know so is right uh society has got a lot to answer for we’ll say so the great awakening or awareness is really around this people waking up and noticing this pattern they don’t recognize it as a generic pattern or a fractal pattern or a higher order pattern they just recognize that this thing is happening to the thing they care about the most or are involved in or whatever and that it’s hurting everything and maybe destroying it or eating it but you can’t just re-enchant somebody by saying hocus-pocus or ethereal 10 times or whatever when people don’t have that capability of informing the world poetically the poetic information of the world they don’t have the eyes to see that then there’s a problem they have lost their sight and you know maybe to some extent they never had it you know such things are not useful to ponder you have to assume that they don’t have a baseline and build up from the very bottom while pointing to the very highest thing that you can a lot of the a lot of the way to help meaning crisis people it’s all about this simultaneous building up from the bottom and pointing up to the top and of course you start with the top you say well is money the thing that’s making people do what they do because most of the things you do you’re not getting paid for so that doesn’t seem to hold true and people will leave their jobs to take care of their loved ones right people will leave their houses right to take care of their friends right to take care of their friends people will change jobs to get something less stressful what stress where is it how do you measure that do you even if you can do you a lot of the materialism is wrapped up in a well we can do x and maybe x can be done but that doesn’t mean you’re going to do it doesn’t mean you are doing it doesn’t mean you can keep doing it it doesn’t tell you anything about the utility of it I can build a rail gun in my backyard and fire something to the moon that is thing I can do I’m not going to do that for various reasons I can measure my stress in terms of heart rate nervous system activation heart rate nervous system activation sweatiness relative to how physically active I am there’s all kinds of ways to measure stress heartbeat you know specific heart symbols irrespective of how fast it’s beating but I don’t do that all the time I might be able to take one or two of those measurements maybe I can get a continuous monitor for the heart but am I going to do it and we get confused that because something’s possible that someone’s going to do it and that them doing that is going to result in something and often the fact that I can build a rail gun and shoot something at the moon ain’t going to happen it’s true it’s true I could but the future which is potential is full of coulds some of which aren’t aren’t even right and we have a hard time discerning which but that’s why the meaning crisis is everywhere because this loss of poetic information poetic way of informing the future way of informing the world is very much the problem when you can’t inform the world poetically you can’t see the pattern you can’t embrace the fractal self-similar fractal nature of the universe you have a hard time discerning the ability to differentiate things is lost totally lost it’s a big problem that’s part of the meaning crisis part of the meaning crisis and the symptoms are everywhere the art conference is fundamentally a response to the symptoms of the meaning crisis we’ve got these basically bad guys in the world economic forum how do I know they’re bad they’re framing the world in economics problem solved nassim taleb read all his books economists are frauds he softened a little bit on that almost all economists are frauds I think that’s as soft as he’s gonna get he brings the goods as to why shows you all the data it’s in the books you can read it right there I haven’t seen anyone refute it I haven’t even seen anyone try it’s even more interesting it’s almost as if when you tell a true enough truth right a holy truth no one will dare and that speaking of poetics reminds me of the brilliant William Blake the brilliant William Blake and my favorite poem because of course it is the tiger the interesting thing about this poem about what he’s talking about is it it begins tiger tiger burning bright in the forests of the night what immortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry and then you know what it ends with tiger tiger burning bright in the forests of the night what immortal hand or eye dare frame thy fearful symmetry beginning of the poem it’s all about ability end of the poem it’s all about your inability to act your inability to act not your inability to accomplish your inability to act you’re in such fear you’re enraptured you’re stuck and that’s the problem we’re stuck Nathaniel likes to give me easy questions today apparently I’m tired dude didn’t I start with that really this is what you’re gonna hit me with how would you reframe arc given the opportunity that depends what you mean I think it’s a bad goal uh from the get-go the problem is when you have a group that is identifying against and you could say mark you muppet how can you make a claim that arc is identifying against something that arc is identifying against something and the thing is it’s explicit the wef are bad guys and how do I know the wf are bad guys because they’re identifying against us using bad frame of economics so arc is using a bad frame of we’re gonna build a thing that’s the wef but we’re against them we’re not for the good that would be a good thing to be for we’re not for justice or temperance or hell rationality any of those would be better frames and then the fact that your project bumps up against contradicts or wipes off the face of the planet with any luck something like the wef is incidental because you can wipe out the world economic form you can neuter them or behead them or whatever you want to do those people are coming back and all you’ve done is pushed over the bully once and the problem is there’s no emanation human form is not a good thing there’s no emanation human flourishing is emergence human flourishing I did a wonderful live stream with well I was on father eric’s live stream I didn’t do the live stream uh on father eric’s channel there and also on randos united uh at least one of the randos united channels consider two because why why would why wouldn’t the chaotic rebels have two channels um and he said no I get your description middle out thinking right I had used a lord of the rings if you start the story of lord of rings at the council of elrond and he said then boramir’s correct I was like yes if all you know about the lord of the rings started at the council of elrond then when boramir says we should use the power of the ring and wield it against its creator that is the correct answer but you know because you didn’t start from the middle of the story that that is not the correct answer and so you see the difference between emergence which is middle out thinking we’re going to assume humans and we’re going to assume what we know what flourishing means we’re going to combine those two words as if that’s a way to communicate ideas in the world by the way it’s not uh and that’s going to be our higher goal but it’s not a higher goal it’s not even a definable goal it’s not even a goal and again people are realizing that what’s going wrong it’s my great observation after one day of the entrepreneur summit is that entrepreneurship is the new education so education was supposed to make people successful so we’re going to pour our money into that and in the u.s. we now have america seed fund we’re pouring our money into entrepreneurs and trying to build entrepreneurs and make entrepreneurs and like construct them from the bottom up to become bigger hey news for you it’s not gonna work shock update emergence is not good the good is higher than emergence the good is above things it’s a virtue or it’s a transcendental it’s way up there random combinations of equal objects to make bigger objects presumes vertical causality and its arbitrariness if you want to take seriously the idea of making the world a better place you need to point at something better using human flourishing as a proxy for better is not going to work it’s not sufficient it’s not correct it’s not definable and it’s not better one man’s flourishing is another man’s suffering that’s the first most obvious problem some people hate the beach i flourish at the beach most of the time some people are miserable in the mountains i actually flourish in the mountains too love the mountains most times some people would be here in the middle of south carolina going that’s kind of bland it is that is true but i’m two hours from the ocean i’m two hours from the mountains and i’m most not mostly not cold it matters a lot when you have an illness so what do you do you exemplify something higher virtues and values you don’t talk about hamas hamas or israel and their crimes the crimes are not the crimes of a country crimes are committed by people find the bad people and you point them out and you give them consequences you find the good people and you point them out and you give them consequences for good people you give them positive consequences like statues and accolades maybe you give it to them after they’re dead in some cases you give them support you give them recognition you give them celebration and bad people maybe you take stuff away from them maybe you’ll give them constraints so they can’t manifest their badness which maybe they can’t control there’s lots of things i can’t control like eating candy when it’s in the house that make me a bad person maybe they can’t control it or we have prisons so everyone’s noticing the meaning crisis the intimacy crisis in their own little corner in their own little way starting to manifest in what they think of as mysterious ways they’re talking about it and they’re ending up using the same language that we’ve been using for quite some time in some cases and they’re talking about it and they’re ending up using the same language that we’ve been using for quite some time in some cases these greatest hits of so-and-so are coming to an end i would say and that’s just a function of the way it works they’re running out of steam they can go low enough or high enough to look they’re looking out at the crowd often from the stage they’re not looking up one of my greatest flaws greatest flaws is that i see patterns and potential so when i see a person when i meet a person even when i talk to them online the person that i engage with is capable of so much more than the person that i’m talking to thinks they’re capable of now i tend to think i’m right because i tend to be right about these things i’m not always right and they tend to be scared feel judged because i’m treating them in a way that from their perspective which is limited your perspective is limited the perspective on yourself is very limited you can only see out can’t see in is unjustified is unjustified it’s burdensome you’ve got a running coach and he says run faster you can do it that’s burdensome but it’s better for you a lot of people are noticing this and i’m on twitter just freaking wrecking everybody’s life with this yeah tough trade-off huh buddy trade-offs are real now what and people are just they don’t know what to do now bad framing here pal they’d upset why because i want more out of them i want more from them they’re capable of more i know they are they could be better they could be better and that’s the thing the world needs you to be better arc is trying to do a political thing using political tools to manipulate another political entity by building a club of the wicked smart people and look i’m from new england i hang out with the wicked smart people they’re there you know i mean i don’t know but i suspect that boston is like the hub of gnosis smart people wicked smart people thirty colleges and universities in a 10 mile radius pretty impressive harvard mit boston college boston university good schools good schools suffolk law and very useful but not going to save the world i don’t care how many of them get together and figure something out i don’t care how much correct problem formulation you use what is correct problem it’s framing post-modernism brings us the loss of framing and then the scientists notice how you frame a problem matters and they call it problem formulation what makes a problem the context that’s what makes the problem that’s what makes the problem you make the problem you it’s useful to make and notice problems sometimes not all the time you one of the themes that came up this week and i think i mentioned it in the father eric live stream there at one point to live is to struggle if you’re not struggling you’re not alive you’re dead technically and it’s good to know it’s not suffering suffering is inevitable you have some choice you can make every activity you engage in suffering you can frame it that way you can turn your live stream into suffering and say oh i had to do a legal deposition today it was difficult we were there pretty much all day very little break contentious lots of thought and then what who created the suffering there me there are things you have to do that aren’t optional you have to do me there are things you have to do that aren’t optional you can meet them as objects of suffering or as processes of suffering or as elements of suffering if you want i can’t stop you i don’t think you should you can meet them as opportunities for joy because when you’re taking an action in the world you have the opportunity to be generative actions are not neutral but what makes actions good or bad is attitude its perspective same attitude different outcome doesn’t seem possible the materialist mind and yet that’s the way it is look around you’ll see it you don’t need anybody to tell you these things you can just observe the world carefully and actually think about it and you’ll see it everywhere yeah helps to have somebody point it out that’s why i’m here i’m not giving you answers i say it all the time i’m not giving you answers i’m pointing things out i’m showing you things that are contradictions that are paradoxes those aren’t useful you don’t live in a paradox you can’t by definition you don’t live in a contradiction you can’t by definition you see a contradiction or paradox that is the limit of your worldview it may not be a may not be a problem right some people they’re comfortable with whatever paradox they see and it doesn’t bother them and you could say they’re not good problem solvers you don’t see the paradox as a problem and maybe if you don’t see a paradox as a problem the problem doesn’t manifest and now you don’t have to solve it that’s a lot less work i’m just saying you see this pattern over and over and over why are you building a business what drives you to go through the process of being an entrepreneur and here are the tools so one of the one of the workshops this woman is amazing she’s amazing her brand is uh ro show live so i think it’s the ro show live or something which i find just freaking amazing she’s a broadcaster here in in in coli i think in columbia but you know in this in the state anyway and um she was talking to her broadcast friend saying like i’m going into the online media space and they’re like oh no man don’t do it you know online media media is very dangerous and she’s like they’re all in media they’re just in tv and not youtube or instagram or tiktok or whatever they didn’t even see that they were basically saying oh the media industry is no good while being in the media industry that they love and won’t leave they didn’t even see it and that’s the problem is that our attitude our approach what we aim at matters and when you have something like arc and it doesn’t have an aim it’s like we’re gonna take human and we’re gonna take flourishing because flourishing is obviously good and we’re gonna take flourishing because flourishing is obviously good in all possible contexts and we’re gonna put them together and what it will emerge from that is arc that’s our goal arc is gonna emerge the human plus the flourishing we’re gonna take two two equal level undefinable abstractions human and flourish we’re gonna combine them together and build a tower of babel oh wait did i say that i mean we’re gonna build higher are you is that gonna work but you see this pattern manifesting everywhere over and over this growth this mischaracterization this loss of meaning intimacy goes right out the window you see it everybody sees it but they’re seeing a different implementation a different manifestation a different set of symptoms but then ultimately that is the problem and that’s the problem and that’s the problem and that’s the problem a different set of symptoms but then ultimately that different set of symptoms is really just a manifestation of the meaning crisis but they’re all coming to the same language they’re all coming to the same conclusions oh we can’t just talk things through why speech is fairly universal one thing that we are very equal in it’s speech so if you’re an emergence is good person conversation is going to save the world equality doctrine intact but of course conversation just causes more divisiveness more tribalism more polarity that’s what it causes there’s a one-to-one correlation in exactly the direction that if you believed in conversation saving the world you would not want to see but it’s there and it’s clear and we don’t like the responsibility of our subjective experience changing the nature of the things that we call real you fast your hunger is real i fast i don’t get hungry that’s strange but a lot of things are that way the responsibility of being a unique individual in the world is too much so we try to equalize things with common sense and we try to equalize things with common sense and we try to equalize so we try to equalize things with conversation instead of accepting our unique perspective and trying to figure out where to fit that unique perspective to make reality better instead of worse if you want to make things better don’t harp on what the world economic forum is trying to do and what they’re saying first of all they don’t have any power to enact any of this stuff they’re not a government body they just don’t have any money to really move the world i mean they got a lot of money but the world has more money than their combined assets can they do some damage yeah anybody can do damage but the solution isn’t we’re not them but we’re a group the solution isn’t let’s get together in london and have a bunch of stupid speeches even though we’re just as powerless as the wef maybe maybe even way less powerful the intellectual class that led us into the world wars that’s worth thinking about and all this stuff is coming to a head is it going to take three months six months three years i don’t know but i see it i see the pattern i see symptoms of the meaning crisis leaking out all over the place if you’d like to hop in have a chat there’s the link in the meantime i’m gonna take some tea i’m tired ah but the wintergreen tea is quite good from table rock tea company oh it has been a long day and it’s been interesting seeing all these people talking and talking my language talking about my topics sort of catching up to the meaning crisis train and hopping on board and you know what are we gonna do we’re not gonna do what ark is doing i’ll tell you that much what a catastrophe is it better than nothing i’m not sure i just don’t know you see a lot of is people taking credit for things and people want you to be able to do what you want to do and that’s what ark is doing and that’s what ark is doing and that’s what ark is doing and that’s what ark is doing another pattern you see a lot of is people taking credit for things and people want you not to give people credit i was always amazed by that i remember being on clubhouse and it was like trick about john vervecki all the time i’m like yeah only when i’m stealing his stuff like this is what john vervecki taught me and the whole time what they were complaining about is that i didn’t just state all of the things i was stating as though they were my ideas it’s sort of this rebellion against cooperation against proper attribution again standing on the shoulders of giants it’s very strange very strange behavior but that’s what they were on about and i don’t know what to make of that the rebellion the oh you know these are your ideas when they’re you know not right at the time i was working for the vervecki foundation right i’m trying to you know i was always critical of john’s work so you know a lot of people were like that’s the first time i’ve heard you say a bad thing about john vervecki i’m like no never happened always said john you know always pointed out the errors in what i thought of the errors in john’s work always mithaniel revitalizing tradition is often seen as pure nostalgia when it’s not mithaniel revitalizing tradition is often seen as pure nostalgia well rebels would like you to think so but i can’t see it another way um look tradition is a self-similar fractal pattern that holds the world together through time literally stitches in time that’s what tradition is it’s the thing that stitches time together that’s why universal history is important great series from pigeot and richard rollin great series the whole idea of stitching things together over time throughout time using time itself is important and is it constraining yeah doing anything is constraining can it become tyrannical pretty much anything can become tyrannical because these are functions of our perception and perspective and our attitude that’s what we bring to the table when people describe the horrors of something like the horrors of capitalism and i point out to them that exists without capitalism they don’t know what to do if you say oh governments are tyrannical we need to get rid of them what if you can’t get rid of governments it’s always been my argument it may suck but there ain’t much you can do about it you can’t get rid of governments it’s always been my argument it may suck but there ain’t much you can do about it just trade-off for having scale more people cooperating towards the same goal equals better likelihood of that goal and a bigger goal that can accommodate more people in the future so we did a little tour of the law firm we were doing my deposition at look at these offices they’re the same size as the other offices for when we expand right planning for the future not forcing it to be a certain way okay nathaniel whenever dreviki says neither nostalgia nor utopia yeah i realize i kind of want it want both those things i think well yeah because he’s not giving you a third option and the third way ism from peterson is real i have a talk with paul vanderkley about that one of these days i’ll get a link tree up and i gotta dump all that stuff into my local ai toy that i’ve been playing with even more fun if you’re stuck in a dichotomy in a binary it’s wrong that’s all it’s not hard it’s not the holy jesus and the holy father it’s trinity that’s weird play-doh triangles goes back to pathagoras triangles why because without it you can’t have enchantment see my early model videos my models playlist triangles are important that’s re-enchantment the other thing that’s important and you know it is important is that additional perspective that that third position brings so having just one perspective is obviously limiting having two perspectives is also limiting and having three i recently released a video about this one two and three all right opens up an exponential number of possibilities an exponential number of possibilities compared to two and we don’t take that for granted we don’t notice it when it’s there we don’t have a realization of how big that is we’re simply unaware of the change from one to two to three three is scary and two is un-unified and one well one is tyrannical that’s why we need to go to the none to the nothing we need to embrace nothingness what are you high and then i don’t know why there’s what are you high and then i don’t know why there’s nihilism in the world you just said nothingness meditate until you feel nothing what do you think is gonna happen a nihilism what are you high three things not two starting axiom being is good whenever anybody talks about just two things and say we’re gonna make this better their emergence is good people age of gnosis you don’t have to know everything you don’t have to know anything you can just do things in the world and goodness will manifest just to pay attention to the good it’s not all randomness but randomness will emerge good and that’s where we get confused randomness has the ability to make it look as if good emerged but really the thing emerged towards the good basically by accident unless somebody was looking towards the good when they were conducting leading forming the emergence you don’t just throw seeds out of an airplane and hope that it works out you cultivate those seeds a very old old pattern what else you got about bravachia nathaniel since that’s one particular area of expertise i could talk at length about bravachia and or peterson joe less less so because his work is hard and i’m not i mean i was all in on peterson and obviously all in on bravachi for a long time but the bravachi flash in the pan is flashed i think i mean he’s trying but i don’t know he lost a lot of core audience with aftersocrates i was a little shocked actually and i think it’s a good thing like aftersocrates is a disaster really sad too because i mean there’s plenty of good points in there i’m sure but meaning crisis man that really took off and some of his work has been so helpful i mean the four p’s and the four p’s are so helpful i mean the four p’s of knowledge which is wrong because it’s four p’s of information but yeah it’s a really powerful way to think about things really powerful way to think about things nathaniel well vervecky and aftersocrates talks to hermes at one point oh wow so can you comment on active imagination i mean wow this is the danger of things like flow and serious play and imagination fact that your imagination is active is a little weird it doesn’t make any sense to say inactive imagination right what does that mean that means you’re adding the word active where it’s not useful and the problem is you don’t take responsibility for your imagination if you don’t say hey this is my imagination and own it you run the risk of going off into space you know and i hate to say it and people keep insisting that i’m wrong or being dishonest or whatever we call you intellectual dishonest on twitter for this number one cause of schizophrenia is hallucinogenic drug use sorry how’s that for active imagination if you activate your imagination by using chemicals the odds that you’ll go nuts are really high yep that is true so nathaniel it’s very much like young’s red book stuff i have not read young’s red book i’m not going to either you have to start from the axiom that being is good because babies are cute that’s my evidence no um because if you don’t you can’t derive anything it’s all parasitic all the way down so being is good solves a lot of problems immediately or rather those problems never manifest and thus never need to be solved even better double plus bonus yes and it’s that interaction with the framing that either dooms you to see problems all the way down or create problems all the way down or not yes i was trolling for ethan ethan says ken confirm well ethan has a new being so he seems to like the little thing too he’s a cute little baby i don’t know if he’s confirming that babies are cute or that being is good or both but probably both knowing ethan ethan has been on fire lately oh my god his twitter is great he’s been really out there doing the warrior work i think is really important actually or if you’re going to be out on twitter and facebook and these places you need to do the warrior work you know everybody talks about we’re in a culture war and i’m like okay i don’t even care which side you’re on i want to know what you’re doing it’s like oh man i don’t want to get involved in the culture war are you saying you’re not part of a culture like i don’t get it like what are you saying yeah and we don’t notice this right just oh yeah that makes sense you’re a free individual who can do what he wants you don’t have to be part of a culture yes you do you’re online you’re part of a freaking culture you’re probably part of tan you’re most welcome ethan uh most welcome all right back to nathaniel and serious questions although babies are pretty serious questions and being as good as pretty serious questions one more from nathaniel here can you please use muppet language for dialectic into dialogos oh my god nathaniel why are you doing this to me man geez louise all right look i don’t want to say this nicely so i’m not gonna say it nicely dialect and dialogos is bullshit it’s that simple this is just a simple question i’m not gonna say it nicely that’s simple this is john’s famous bullshit only he’s doing it to himself which is where bullshit begins to be fair but also cut it out the way dialectic is hinted at in playdough’s republic which i am reading it’s part of the book club not by myself on my own i don’t quite think i’m smart enough for that i need danny and ethan and manuel and sometimes adam and whoever else shows up you need their perspectives their insight their pushback to understand this stupid book because it’s hard it’s hard and i’m a muppet and i know i’m a muppet i’m like you’re firmly a muppet territory the dialectic is not a thing between two people it’s not how the ancient greece conceived it’s not how the ancient greece conceived of it as near as i can tell from all the reports i have and i know some people right i talked to some phds and this stuff the thing that we call dialectic nowadays is hagel’s description of dialectic the problem with hagel is multi you know multi multifaceted one facet of the problem of hagel is that everybody casts hagel as a philosopher hagel was not a philosopher he did not want to be a philosopher he would not want to have been associated with philosophers he was a theologian now problem with hagel is he was a bad theologian he wasn’t even good at the thing he was and fair enough being a theologian is hard not recommended don’t do that it’s hard hagel’s idea is synthesis oh no thesis anti-thesis synthesis right which is an emergency is good right you take the thing you take the opposite of the thing you put two together and bang you’ve got a new thing one layer up uh you’re a three-year-old cut it out no no really i mean any three-year-old will come up with that formula over and over and over and over and you just haven’t talked to a three-year-old clearly he does not die for like 20 minutes they’ll come up with that uh they might they might do it with legos i have one i have a ton of lego and they’re apart and put the one leg on top of the other lego and i have a third thing and it’s taller three-year-olds do that all the time really watch them it’s beautiful to walk like look i mean the three-year-olds are fun uh right but hagel’s not three years old guys like this is not a new revelation every three-year-old finds it out for themselves is hagel of some giving you some insight really uh i think you had that insight i’m sorry so when we think about dialectic that’s how we think about it it’s one equal thing here one opposing equal thing here but instead of opposing there’s an emergence up from that into dialogos that’s bullshit that’s garbage it’s trash now do i believe that you can have a conversation with somebody where you both benefit well yeah they do it all the time that’s why i have manuel that’s the purpose of manuel from my perspective and not just manuel you know the biggest breakthrough on the knowledge engine model if you haven’t seen that video you absolutely have to watch it’s fantastic um and came from andre not from manuel and not from muppet mark clink it was andre like wait a minute what happened and everybody contributed and like lots of people contributed to that whole project and you know are continuing to contribute to the project i mean some of ethan’s framing lately has been you know excellent nathaniel i’m glad i found these channels before i read hagel yeah well hagel is only a problem if you think he’s smart like if you think he’s saying something intelligent just like heidegger i think he’s saying something intelligent you’ll read all kinds of garbage into him that’s not there i think i have a german idealism gremlin in somewhat yeah well german philosophy is uh yeah dangerous oh hold on erin black hey ethan hey mark hey erin good to see you ethan literally what i used to do at the soda fountain of mcdonald’s when i was a kid mixing sodas how come this isn’t a thing right right how come it isn’t a thing it’s a good it’s a good question like yeah and and the thing is like you know you get trapped in in some of this stuff and uh yeah yeah benjamin franklin i don’t like nobody should like he’s not particularly bright again i mean that just technically low iq individual um i know people are howling but he’s so influential i’m like yeah helen of troy was more influential buddy now what it wasn’t a good thing either it wasn’t a good thing either the fact that a lot of people listen to you doesn’t mean you’re right uh it just means that maybe you’re articulate but stupid or maybe they’re stupid or maybe they’re just looking for something higher and they can’t or won’t look high enough and so they build up something lower and emerge it into something they think is good look what emerged from the three-year-old ramblings of carl marx was that emergence good not so far and i can tell you technically why it will never be worker equality doctrine holy crap dude you’ve never worked in a factory have you i worked at a union shop nobody liked me because i worked and i can just outwork most people just stamina focus i have a lot of stamina and focus a lot less focus now that i’m sick but before i was sick when i was young i could out focus you i don’t care who you are and that’s the problem it’s um it’s tough to deal with the fact that we’re the same in some ways and different in others and we’re the same enough that we recognize each other for the most part and it’s a problem it’s um yet we can’t reduce ourselves to our personalities to psychology to a philosophy to a worldview to a religion because we’re the sum of our actions and we’re not only the sum of our actions we’re also the sum of our potential now i don’t know how to sum potentials because i don’t think you can but there’s the mystery and look you can turn that mystery into great suffering oh you don’t know what’s coming oh no i don’t know what’s coming next or i don’t know what’s coming next let’s find out i like uh sadly joe’s channel she does these videos she does their little intro she says welcome to the edge of my mind let’s jump off and if you know sally joe and you have a proper sense for the world that’s terrifying have you talked to her she’s so confusing i don’t want to jump off of that i don’t know where that goes i don’t know what that means i don’t know what that means i don’t know what that means i don’t know what that means i don’t know what that means i don’t know what that means but she says it in such a beautiful way right um very inviting like i’m at the edge of my thoughts come with me let’s see where this ends up and it’s good right because sally joe is good as close to objectively as objective can exist um objectively good methaniel the pattern i keep seeing is when a small amount of truth draws people to a bunch of bs and the blinders go up well look the problem is the following half the people are at the bottom half of the bell curve by definition the reason why i’ve said that before uh when i was working a polaroid one of the engineers said that didn’t quite realize what he said right away everybody else was laughing at him including myself and then he went oh let’s see what i did wrong we all fall into you’re a brilliant guy we all fall into it we all fall into cognitive biases right we have and it’s weird people don’t make the connection the relationship we have a very clear sense if you ask people that their cognition is limited of course cognition is limited we’re not all eric weinstein smart right we can’t all have good memories we don’t all have good memories we don’t all have good right we can’t all have good memories we don’t all think as quickly right then we don’t account for what does that mean what if most people can only track three things the thing that’s personal to them personally like just themselves within themselves their thing that they relate with nature with and then the thing they use to relate to others and you start to try to relate to others and they tell you something that has a truth in it and they can’t track another thing and then they follow that person because that person gave them a truth and to some extent if somebody gives you something you owe them something we know this right this reciprocal relationship exists but what if their cognition is just such that they can only track the one truth and then they just have to submit they have to follow they have to be led they don’t have a choice i can’t and it would be stupid to try to know and understand and anticipate all the same things as somebody else so that i can quote keep up with them that’s why i have jesse because now i don’t have to go through movie history i have sally joe i don’t have to go through art history right they make those connections for me when i talk about that stuff that didn’t come out of me alone i may have made those connections but it was with their help welcome jesse what do you think of my story i’m glad you’re here welcome jesse what do you think of my rambly stream so far your family stream did you see that my rambling rambling a rambling stream it is a family of concepts um good so far i’ve been tuning in and out had some things to do got a bit of time so i thought i’d jump on and you have a life busy it’s not yeah i have what outrageous muppets have lives guys they live lives guys they live i don’t recommend it it’s hard how’s your health by the way yeah it’s it’s slightly improving we’ll we’ll see how it is tomorrow morning now that this goofy deposition is over oh is uh good news or just more cool uh i mean look my lawyer was thrilled um i got in what i needed to get in uh and made a couple points and probably only made one one mistake in one area uh which wasn’t technically a mistake right it was your approach could have been better here sort of a thing wasn’t like a right you know you said something wrong yeah it’s gonna i’m still oddly sensitive to post-modern frame or anti-framing and uh that happened and i just freaking lost it and i was like totally off script all of a sudden i’m like uh fight the power you know i you know look i mean i talk about this stuff and i this guy does that and that guy these are all my sins too right like i still have those problems yeah you can rope me in with with you know post-modern framing all the like like oh what do you think is human flourishing mark oh that’ll set me off or uh you know you know effective altruism is a good way to think about the world it’s like you didn’t think about that you can’t what’s wrong with you i mean come on freeman ah like didn’t sam bankman he’s he’s now being convicted right that’s the yeah girlfriend oh yeah yeah now he’s nothing got him off he’s he’s all gone well and you’ve seen the means right the most fascinating thing that absolutely no one’s talking about but everyone’s actually engaging with so his uh girlfriend there or whatever the woman executive so they show her before picture and she looks you know a little doggie yeah but she’s she looks very young you know like 12 young like way too young yeah shiny and really cute um right what’s it what’s it they show her getting out of there but then they show her getting out of the car for the trial and she looks like an aged crone for real it’s like okay i’m gonna take this off it is the same person and everything and no one’s really talking about what does that mean because it looks to me like the corruption took away the beauty i’m just saying that’s what it looks like to me like i have this whole thing where uh and you see these people sometimes men and women sorry whether it look you know rode hard and put away wet is one of the terms i use one of the phrases one of the terms of phrase i use just for horses right would you basically you know drug addicts often look rode hard and put away wet because they’ve just been burned out from their amphetamines basically um but but you can see this i see it everywhere all the time i don’t know what the rest of you is i don’t know why you don’t see isn’t there there’s a famous short video of um mr evil obama his pictures when he’s in office and how he every year he’s aging where every six months i think it is or something like that yeah that was that was frightening they were like oh it’s just stress yeah he like okay yeah it gets stressed it doesn’t well and that’s a trick right so you’re saying this change over time is due to stress but people all have stress and a lot of people have more stress than he did and they didn’t change in that way and so it’s like i get that stress seems like you didn’t answer anything you just brought up a correlate and made an implication that the correlate was responsible when any simple observation or thought on the matter will tell you that can’t possibly be true and the way i talk about that is i say yeah you just stated the universal in fact that happened to me today of course i was like um okay but you just stated you know i didn’t say you just stated the universal but i just basically did the whole like well that’s true for any two words in the english language if you take any two words in the english language and don’t give them context they can’t can’t have a meaning it’s not possible almost like it’s a magic trick i know over here look over here look over here oh this thing’s happening oh that’s what’s going on off Benjamin Franklin maybe it’s just a kind of illness like diabetes yeah which maybe she got from being evil um definitely does not look like a normal aging for sure right sally joe grizzled is the term yeah grizzled is another term uh wrong grim is grizzled uh no comment sally joe people don’t get grizzled at the same rate for the same things and it’s fascinating right that’s the that’s the point right there um sally joe indeed grim is by design yeah look i mean if you take a negative aspect aspect to the world you’re going to get a negative aspect in your physicality like you know your thoughts are going to reflect in your looks at some point in some way and it may take longer for some people or whatever because they’re starting from different places but i could say it’s like conversional as a as a photographer it’s um people that have uh aesthetic quality or uh a what you could say is good looks broadly speaking they tend to be more comfortable on camera and more comfortable performing and more comfortable posing i don’t know why that is something the confidence having seen yourself and having that self-reflection in in the positive sense or having a um uh lesser disgust response you could say but yeah it is a weird phenomena of people that either either look after themselves or are naturally good looking or have worked on themselves not in in a plus surgery sense but in sense of um they’ve done the hard work to be fit or to wash their face or whatever it is they they tend to present well on camera and they tend to be more at ease in front of them in front of the camera um yeah i think this has got yeah something to the positive uh reinforcement of payers which you can actually do mark by the way with uh certain assertiveness training not sure if uh you have thought about that but there you go that is that is correct yeah yeah you’re not sure if i’ve thought about that yeah there’s the there’s the lie of the night right there yeah look um assertiveness training is the thing uh the irony here is that i don’t think that self-confidence is a useful frame because your confidence yes no yeah it’s not outside interaction right um and i use self-confidence like i tell people yeah they have low self-confidence right um but that’s usually for people who are highly successful but don’t frame things in a positive fashion right in other words they would be get something done that yeah well they get something done right and then they like oh i i you know i set up all the you know all the colors on your website you know correctly i don’t know if that’s going to be sufficient maybe you’ll like it but i don’t know instead of saying this thing you asked me to do i did it now it’s done it’s like because you don’t write the in in the first scenario you’re anticipating a negative outcome from a positive accomplishment this is not good for you and so that means you have low self-confidence but your confidence comes from interacting with the world and so when you’re good looking you have good interactions with the world things are easier because other people are making them easier and so when you come into a new situation you’re just like yeah whatever man whenever i come into a new situation goes well so why am i gonna make it bad right and and yeah and that includes being on camera you know i think there’s also that sense of uh the loss of sentiment and character within the western society that lack of presentation or being presentable or holding to a certain standard has also led to this kind of mundane ugliness or casualness that obviously objects out to others and if everyone’s treating themselves as casual or mundane or interactions relationships in the world as kind of um utilitarian means to an end then of course that’s not going to look desirable it’s not you know you’re going to avoid those people that treat you the way that um i’m just using this conversation for my own ends rather than for the betterment of the community or the content or a higher a higher ideal or whatever like something outside and above yourself and the other people in the conversation this is the problem with vervecky’s work we’re all going to get together and manifest something larger than ourselves that’s a seance technically like i studied the occult that is a seance that is an attempt to resurrect manifest grab a spirit and give it power in the material realm that’s what it is technically don’t do that please don’t do that i did want to if you want a haunting connection that’s what modern dance music does we’re all going to get together sweaty in the pit and i’m going to raise up the volume in the tempo and i’m going to get everyone has to get in three arms up in the air we’re basically in a circle in having a spirit or having an experience that’s meant to be higher than oneself um it’s yeah it’s a form of manifestation a lot of those dance concerts and they do every trick in the book to get you to participate for as long as possible it’s all the same well yeah yeah it’s all emergency not seeing that is the problem not seeing that you know it’s not you’re not just going to a dance meeting conference you’re not just taking drugs and dancing you’re actually embodying something that’s far more malicious or devious that you’re literally in the occult without even realizing so let’s take this out so sally joe there are wrinkled people who don’t have the grizzle because they are at peace with their state right right yeah wrinkling and grizzling is not the same thing and some people who are old just put you at peace exactly exactly benjamin franklin this is always a roll of the dice this collides what what is this with the correlation causation problem there’s no correlation causation problem it’s not a problem lots of things correlate causation and correlation just aren’t the same thing and nobody likes that for whatever stupid reason probably because they’re retarded or something i don’t know what if people with bad physiognomy are more attracted to bad ideas like a self-fulfilling prophecy what if people with this who who are attracted to bad bad ideas develop bad physiometry there you go that’s because that’s what we started with i don’t know why you sort of conflating many things resummarized well and flipped exactly the frame that we had erin black on language it’s amazing how big a part little words play something like and or or or seal yeah well i think the problem is we don’t pay enough attention to the language people are using um shoot and i had a good example earlier today i thought was uh fascinating and i have using someone else’s language you’re using vervecian language you’re you’re essentially in body in the spirit of a key when you do that when you start to use other people’s phrases or yeah technology because you don’t come up with that well the other people’s language is not i i mean i think what erin’s roughly getting at is the idea that that small words and the placement of words in the sentence should be having a large impact and the impacts that words have are more more about our unconscious than our conscious and so a lot of times somebody will say something like in the spirit right versus the spirit of and those are very different statements and we don’t pay attention to how different those statements are and so we lose our ability to switch contexts correctly it’s a proposition to you’re changing the inference yeah yeah it’s a which is a tell you know properly attuned to the world you could say which is difficult yeah well and and and i think yeah people get wrapped up in a lot of things like causation versus correlation and it’s like it’s not versus like causation and correlation are two separate things and they just don’t have any overlap like i don’t know what to tell you one can disprove the other that’s an overlap that is an exclusionary principle like okay if there’s no correlation then it’s deleted from the realm of causation fair right but the inverse doesn’t work at all and a lot of people are using this symmetrical idea and i think that’s cognitive overload i think when you load up your mind with stupid things you stop being able to reason correctly and to use your rationality and and to employ logic logic does not say a equals b and b and therefore b equals a that is not logic at all like no that’s not how that works the symmetry is not implied the symmetry has to be stated and again this goes back to aaron’s comment right like the difference between something that’s implied and something that’s stated is huge and yet it’s one little word and we conflate those two we’re conflating the future with the past for squishing time and it’s a big big problem but again it manifests in meaning crisis and then bang and then you know with people having access to every stupid thing in the world all the time we see outliers and we go oh the irs took that person’s house they must be taking everybody’s house when they don’t pay taxes even though any cursory look at the numbers will tell you the irs is not going to take your house man they’re just not first of all every time i look into one of these irs took my house things they’ve owed taxes for 15 years like it’s not a new thing like it takes the irs a long time to do anything um one time the irs owed me money they they just owed me money and uh they had sent me this notification that said we received your blah blah paper and i was like well i sent my tax returns in all at once in one envelope so i don’t know what this means but it didn’t come with any other instructions so a year later they got back to me and they said you uh filed your blah blah paper late and i was like uh dude literally filed all my paperwork at exactly the same time and exactly the same envelope which you told me you received well you don’t know i don’t know what else to say um and then what they did was they said well because you did that there’s a charge and because there was a charge we built up interest and now you owe us like four grand and i was like this is my first notification that anything untoward has happened and you’re telling me a year later i owe you four grand and because i owed them four grand and in fact for that next tax year they owed me four grand they took my four grand and i was like you sons of bitches you owe me eight thousand dollars you pricks right and you notice they only took four to cover the four to get it to zero but it was my eight we don’t notice little little asymmetries like that but they’re not little asymmetries you want to make me angry there we go example nathaniel while knowledge won’t save us age of gnosis dude age of gnosis i’m going to write that article at some point i did begin my journey towards better with a simple idea from jordan peterson which i believe was be as educated as you are intelligent boy man i don’t know how to do that i don’t know how you measure intelligence i don’t know how you measure education i get the general idea that peterson’s after there but these are dangerous waters matters right again if if it’s cognitive load okay let’s say you can only memorize 10 things for a week maybe that’s not a problem as long as you memorize the right 10 things but what if the 10 things you memorize are like pokemon cards what did you do you just ruined your cognition didn’t change kind of capacities the same but you ruined your cognition by aiming it attending to the wrong thing aimed it in the wrong direction you are attending to the wrong thing and so i think a better way to think about that is be careful what knowledge you get and one way to look at this is real easy like look you can spend your day and like i’m not criticizing this okay i used to know a word of a lie no this is an impossible thing right watch all four cable news networks all day all the time for real like not 24 7 but like anytime i could i had cnn fox ms mbc what’s the other one uh and the other one now i can’t remember on all the time now whatever it’s called i it was one of the other ones i forget um but i had them on all the time and that was great but you can’t do that and attend to something local so you can know everything that’s going on globally the odds that you’re going to understand that your family needs something goes down it doesn’t go to zero i get that but also there’s a lot of numbers that aren’t zero that are still so bad that you know that doesn’t matter right we need that connective tissue between things otherwise it’s just this is matter it’s just uh it’s like having food in your house right without the application or the awareness what to do with that it’s just going to sit there on the shelf you’re going to have all this useless information that’s not you’re not able to connect or to apply or to you know to even give on to other people like your pokemon cards but the connection aside jesse the problem is you can’t pay attention to everything you can’t pay attention to most things and if you’re busy paying attention to israel and hamas that’s coming at a cost and that cost is paying attention to i don’t know what the hell is going on in the united states if you’re there or in australia if you’re there or wherever you are like and people have finally started to get it like i’ve seen this a lot like sticks now sticks hexen hammer has posted a number of times now i don’t care what’s going on over there it doesn’t affect me guys or something to that effect yes that is the right answer i’m very very sorry that there are bad things going on in the world but why the hell are you picking hamas in israel and if you want if you want horror if you want to understand the horror of not paying attention there’s a pbs special on the ugandan genocide i think it is um 10 years after and freaking eye-opener man be like you can’t pay attention to everything and you know you may think hamas in israel is a bad situation that sort of stuff is going on all the time in africa all the time maybe it’s a smaller scale maybe not i don’t know it’s not always a smaller scale some of the larger scale baby killings and like burnings and capturing of school children and having them dragged off for no good purpose that happens in africa frequently you’re going to have to explain to me why hamas in israel is more important buddy neither of those places are near enough to me that that they have an impact i’m not saying you shouldn’t do anything saying you should be careful what you pay attention to and i just want to address nathaniel here to make it more personal i have a seventh grade education on paper high school diploma that’s it and i struggle around educated people when attempting to convey a point of view uh practice practice right well look look ignore educated people they suck um worry about people who are kind because because look there’s a commonality that educated kind people have and uneducated kind people have it’s called kindness and that’s what you should care about because that’ll pay dividends you know it won’t pay dividends it’s not going to educate people they suck uh i i vote you take all the most educated articulate people and burn them uh that would be better uh the sooner we stop listening to these muppets the the the further away from world war three we’ll get what caused world war two world war one what caused world war smart people sorry uh it just is what it is like there’s nothing it’s interesting too because vervecki saw this and actually mentioned i forget which video it was in but it’s quite some time ago but he said like oh yeah you know that intellectualism has caused a lot of death yes it has all the crimes of the 20th century my friend that’s all from napoleon onward see my video with adam on the french revolution um from napoleon onward there was that that’s where that all began with napoleon precision uh gunnery that’s where that starts the success i would see in the accuracy i would say uh when conflict began to not be a to be resolved on a local scale aka dueling and civil law uh having too many contracts or agreements between nations that were unrecognizable to each nation but what they didn’t and didn’t agree to how they shouldn’t apply these contracts or conflicts or mentions that’s yeah that’s what ruined the world because um the if you know local people behaving together is is more important than nations behaving together i’m sorry if when local people are able to resolve their conflicts in a civil matter um whatever civil means which is basically like honoring the good um and having a fair negotiation yeah things resolve themselves like people people want to get along people actually want to live in peace many people were kind of coerced into the first world war they did not want to do it they were coerced and thinking i was like the ball well but you know kind of me maybe a little bit more civilized or you know we’ll do it trenches and whatever and it was anything but it was you know misery prolonged misery for four or five years depending on how you want to watch it um that’s that’s not a local conflict that’s a it’s a nation panic or crisis um and that crisis continued for 34 years if you want to if you want to mark it which is probably right um yeah we we have to be able to resolve things at the local level otherwise sentiment character society will continue down like this is the inverse of globalism where everyone’s just honoring the hive mind uh you know uh mark and reason i think put it right where he said you know it was the spirit of the current thing and you’ve been able to watch that and everyone’s been able to track that since covid i think covid’s been this great um crystallizing of much of the panic the fake news virus scam just dumped a lot more skepticism i think i think peugeot put it rightly it was a it was a false god or a false idol or yeah religion and so yeah his speech really uh really really nailed it i wanted to address aaron black on the on the cost of attention i don’t know there’s a cost to attention the contention is inevitable uh the question is where where are you where is your attention going have you heard a version of brett weinstein’s time traveling money printer uh no uh brett brett weinstein uh went off the rails a few years ago so i really don’t sort of pay attention to him uh because it ain’t worth it he’s not looking high enough he’s an emergence is good evolution believer who quite honestly disappointingly does not understand evolution which is funny to me because that is his his particular specialty um i don’t i don’t understand why money is a good frame for anything money is just a proxy for value and value is created through mutual agreement in other words one person one entity one group cannot determine money it’s not good luck time good luck managing time or having time management like that’s just a bad frame like you can’t manage time there is no way to manage time you can manage your productivity you can manage your receptivity right yeah there’s always an attention cost it’s good perspective or you know funneling filtering depending depending on no it’s just you know attention is a constant like you there is always attention and therefore you need to understand where it’s going and train your attention right otherwise you end up doing strange things and i had a strange experience with that um but before i get into that little story because i i do want to tell that story nathaniel i appreciate that answer uh it’s kind to answer all these questions well i i’d like to think so also that’s what i’m here for to to a large extent i hope one day i i can’t get a question in because a bunch of other mothers like that what’s up over here it would be nice to be a little bit busier on the question side i i will admit i did want to tell this story this is a funny story so i’m at the entrepreneur meeting and a bunch of the uh conference rather and a bunch of people from our entrepreneur meeting our wednesday morning meetings this is a conference in columbia right they’re all there and so we like we’re hanging out because like we hang out every wednesday anyway we you know we do other things so we know each other and there’s a pitch contest right the pitch is where you get up and you do your slides you can say you should you should invest in me because i’m awesome or you know whatever get a little story but it’s like a two-minute pitch which by the way is absurd anybody asked you to do pinch two minute pitch for business tell them you get better things to do and do something else um and caroline who runs it was running those people do you have a pitch ready do you need help with your pitch or whatever this is what she does like fine fair she’s the director of the not the conference but you know the local entrepreneur group and and and such not and she was the one who came up with the idea for that little event so jeff one of our buddies trips on the stairs up the stage like just falls over he’s a big guy so it’s a big deal and he makes a joke out of it and puts it in his pitch right on the fly because he’s a very bright guy and pulls it off beautifully right and then uh my buddy fred was there too and fred’s like i want to win this thing because they had this cop they were giving out and this was route yesterday was round one today was the finals um and fred got knocked out and jeff got in and so i was like look fred you know i voted for you man uh and i had missed his presentation which i feel bad about but an important call um i said uh you know jeff here stole it from me with his acting you know now everybody who watched it knows jeff actually tripped and he wasn’t acting there’s no question about this in anyone’s mind jeff clearly somehow managed to trip on a stair it happens right whatever but jeff goes i’m bleeding man and i’m like wait what he’s like that wasn’t acting i’m bleeding so you know and he knows that i know that it wasn’t acting i he was giving me his pitch prior to this you know as practice because i was happy to help i was like all right i’ll just listen to your damn pitch i don’t care um so i know that that wasn’t part of an act i i know this like i know this and he’s bleeding not very much but and you know guys like it so we’re some pints of blood are coming out every heartbeat we don’t care like whatever we’ll just put a band-aid on it later just sitting there he’s like oh yeah i banged up my legs and the whole nine yards and you know you kind of tell that it looks like he definitely you know bruised himself but like no no i he was bleeding hand and he’s probably bleeding you know bleeding shins or something too and caroline goes to him and says well you you know congratulations made it the next round do you need help with your pitch deck for your you know for your five minute pitch tomorrow because they’re doing five minute pitch tomorrow which would be today um you know that was a two minute pitch why they did this in that order i don’t know anyway and i was like caroline caroline the guy’s bleeding and all you care about is his stupid slides i’m like really and she’s like what huh i’m like he’s bleeding hello i was like he he tripped remember and she’s like totally switches you can see the switch right so at some point this is just me oh look a human to experiment with why don’t we run an experiment but whatever uh so she switches she goes oh my god you’re bleeding and then yeah jeff holds out his hand and like there’s a little bit of blood it’s not it’s not it’s not dripping on the floor anything crazy and she’s like oh my god we’re gonna get you like a band-aid we have first aid kits around here it’s like slow down caroline and jeff’s like no no it’s cool i just need to go to the bathroom and like rinse it off and it’ll be fine because he’s not doing this because he’s a guy and we’re like it’s just a flesh wound you know like we don’t like whatever so we lost an arm it’ll be fine i’ll deal with it later i got things to do uh you know so she like flips out in the other direction is it all like oh no we’ve gonna get you you know first aid and ambulances and whatever and blood and this is terrible and it’s hysterical to watch same amount of energy but you moved her attention from the thing she was already attending to which is pitches and slide decks for 24 hours from now or something right to right now however danger of blood loss and then she’s all in on that and it’s just funny to watch people do that your attention it doesn’t go away it’s always there unless you’re asleep then it just moves into your head entirely and makes you dreams or something that’s why you need to sleep you actually need to right right but you see uh that’s the thing like you you your attention is always there what you pay attention to matters how you’re framing the world matters listening to other people matters like all these things are super important because that’s what makes up reality reality is fungible right reality is going to manifest differently based on whether or not you pick up your muppet cup to drink right or your tea cup to drink different reality once i drink like reality is good scott adams moment those are very scott let’s all take a seat well i mean it it matters i mean i don’t like the four synchronicity but you know that’s him saying tribe members do what i do i am your leader and like i’m not like whatever i mean you have to do that i just yeah i’m not not impressed i’m just not impressed and i like scott adams i have his uh book win bigly which is good i read it when i was in scotland is it good is it good yeah it’s quite good actually his other book it was another book that he wrote that was really good no i i gotta do a book list i gotta do all that we’re very close to getting google to play right with the website uh and then we’ll sort of launch into things i do need to your earlier point i need to put up the uh aggressiveness training course set to put that together so together my course so it’s a holistic it’s not a training people to be gorillas uh i don’t know about that um yeah i gotta work on all that i’ve just been flat out with lawsuits and wrangling uh startups and dealing with technical problems and the fact that google lies about everything and can’t do simple things and doesn’t know what they’re doing anymore um you know little things we’re getting closer right i got the storefront storefront is good but oh my god getting you know getting getting getting that ready and prepared has just been it’s been a nightmare um and i have a lot of help and i appreciate it of all the great help but the world is in the middle of decay so google can tell you do this all day long but then when you do it they don’t they don’t fall on their under the bargain anymore so yeah it’s been a real everything’s been a real struggle lately but look um the important part is these patterns keep manifesting and people are noticing them and that jonathan peugeot arc talk was so good it’s so good yeah i would just like that isn’t i’ve already seen one of them but yeah well but yeah i want to watch and talk here i don’t i don’t even care about peterson’s talks wrong tell us the thing the thing for me with peugeot’s talk was i was like man i would have said much of that in much the same way uh and the fact is he kind of got it like he’s figured it out he’s like oh peterson just doesn’t use the god word i know i’ll use an effable and i’m like yep there you go that is correct use an effable problem solved now you can do all the christian talk as long as you avoid the other christian talk languages and get the christian point across without being too christian and scaring people yep that is true i saw an interesting clip of peter pergogian who’s a an elusive figure but he actually he actually um quite savvily critiqued the arc conference in a very interesting very sly but a very interesting way really i’ll send it to you yeah yeah he said um well yeah i know i have my own sort of discussion group over here in sydney and i said one of the um the board problems with you could say anyone who like terms right is that uh we have lacked the organizational skills for a very very long time and so anytime we see organization happen in our our frame around our bucket we get really excited excited about that um however it is ironic that the side that likes strara and organization can’t actually get a bunch of people together to agree on something and actually build something not in a reactive sense but for a long term because uh one of the things we’ve lost is guilt is the passing on of practical you know practical wise information that people can build their lives on it’s not just head knowledge but it’s actually this is how you do it this is how you make a great chair this tastes are great business right and it’s long term and it solves you know problems locally and also societally you know you can’t just teach someone to be a teacher you have to teach them the skill of of um influencing a classroom in the right direction with well but but but see but all of that is bad framing that’s that’s really the ultimate problem is all of that is it’s all true but bad framing and that’s the problem yeah what what right well big ocean i like peter baghoshan um i i’m honest twitter’s every once in a while and you know i haven’t got any traction now which is fine i’m not like whatever i don’t care hey you you you you don’t want to help i it’s no loss to me i’ve already tried to help you right so my cost is already paid um i’m not looking for payback so it’s it’s cool um when you don’t recognize what’s actually happening you end up in this situation where you’re like well you know we’ve we’ve lost the sense of no we’re rebelling against structure people are constantly rebelling because they see structure as the problem and and that’s the issue like structure’s not the problem it’s enablement structure is the thing that enables you properly and why people want agreement agreement is the result of equality doctrine right i don’t need jesse to agree with my thumbnails which he doesn’t by the way and i already know this uh right i don’t need that right what i need is for jesse to say i hate you stupid thumbnails i’m gonna come on your dorky live stream anyway because i like your live stream and i want i want to get my message out too relationship matters the relationship matters the agreement doesn’t yeah right yeah and it’s not like like i can and this is this was very confusing on the awakening from the meaning crisis discord server those guys you know they were trying to do the religion that’s not a religion project and they just couldn’t do it because they’re all rebellious muppets and they had some good ideas they wanted to try some stuff manuel and i were finally like we’re part of a community we’re responsible for this community right we have to step in and help them for the good of the community i stated this before especially back then i stated it to them many times i do not like your project you do not believe in your project i think your project is stupid however you need some organization i am here to help you on your stupid project that i disagree with you do not need to agree with them to help them i do not need to and it’s ironic these people talk about agreement and they go help drug addicts do you agree with the drug addict you agree with their lifestyle do you agree with their choices do you agree with what they’re spending money on when you when you’re not what no you don’t why is this a problem like i don’t understand why are you so enamored with freaking agreement you know and a better way to think about agreement is consensus because consensus is a little softer right but still the the bottom line is if you want to do something bigger than you you have to sacrifice the sorts of things you sacrifice are different based on where you are in what you can do for the project guy like carl marks takes a simple observation universalizes it squishes the world and convinces you of completely absurd and stupid things that any three-year-old knows are not true right and people fall for this garbage because they want to believe in the outcome but the bottom line is a worker is not a worker is not a worker all workers are not the same i’ve worked with workers i’ve been a worker i don’t care what the work is i’m in the top one percent all the time because i have better focus and i have better stamina and i have better speed than 99.9 percent of the population even when i’m sick trick period better yeah getting back to this point on getting back to this point on consensus yeah that is a it’s a it’s a magic trick it’s a magic trick that’s being used on you you can be in unity with other people but still disagree with them right you can still be serving a common cause because it’s the service that matters it’s the common cause that matters it’s the good that’s being produced that matters well and that’s the and that’s the difference jesse i’m glad you framed it this way this is really good framing by the way thank you you can view your disagreement one of two ways view your disagreement view your disagreement as a way to cooperate or as an opposition this is why i don’t like opponent processing you don’t have to rebel to cooperate right in fact you can’t the difference and the difference isn’t necessarily what’s going to get done but it might be in how it gets done or how well it gets done or how quickly it gets done when i’m working with somebody in spite of the fact that they’re annoying or in spite of the fact that they say stupid things or in spite of the fact that they were an artist artists are the worst jesse you’re all the worst great things happen right it’s a sacrifice for me right because i have to put up with artists oh god i can’t think of anything worse on top of my head but that’s how the goodness emerges because i’m not trying to oppose you and say you’re wrong my thumbnails are awesome and and the way the thumbnails recently changed i’m sure people have noticed that was my friend bill in england your thumbnails suck mark fair bill what would you do and he starts whipping up thumbnails right then and there on the discord server i’m like oh my god he goes look this took 10 minutes and i’m like what software are you using he’s like well it’s this software and it’s free oh no wait it’s not free and you know it’s all this software he knows how to use because he uses it for work basically and i’m like i can’t do that in 10 minutes with your software because it’s not that easy it’s not the software is not the magic right but he just came up with that and i didn’t go yeah bill but it’s not my style that’s not the navigating pattern style right and then sally joe because she’s an artist goes this is the these are the thumbnails i was trying to make you do from the beginning and i’m like sally you’ve done my thumbnails none of them look like that zero of them you can tell me that’s what you were trying to tell me to implement but you couldn’t implement it either so and and sure you know you when you see the right thing you go oh obviously that was the right answer all along like everybody does that because you kind of have to right you kind of say oh look reality was correct all along but reality manifests in the moment it doesn’t you know it wasn’t necessarily there before right and so now we have a great new thumbnail format and someday i’ll get around to fixing all of the old thumbnails and putting the new format at least i tell myself every day and a new logo our logo is not changing anytime soon we’ve got it in vector format now so that’s way better um it’s not good it’s not good disagree it’s fine if somebody doesn’t make a new logo we definitely want to adopt a new logo because i’m gonna focus on thumbnail i’ve suggested it i’ve suggested it by the way oh lots of people suggested lots of things i’m not yeah absolutely what i’ve actually built i’ve actually built but no anyway we’ll uh we’ll go into that later uh hold on taco 169 the dynamic duo is back can neither confirm nor deny that i skipped the last half of score sazy what sploom to be here well you don’t have to confirm or deny anything no one’s gonna talking about the woke score sazy movie that’s out right now i don’t know is there one i i don’t yeah flowers of the blue blue blue whatever it’s called oh i don’t have to be good i know i i i think our director should quit by their head i think there’s a certain capo arantino said that it’s like i only want to make 10 that’s good i want to be known for 10 10 great works you know homer wrote two great books um in fact the greeks preferred illy i just learned this over the oddity it was the west that preferred the odyssey now that should tell you what if you’re paying attention to history because the odyssey is the magical one you’ve got the treacherous horse you’ve got this reminiscent you go to this you go to the you go to the lotus eaters you go here you’re going back you’d go it’s this whole return pattern but then that’s not the illyad the illyad is a dense character study of the gods of the people of the place of the tragedy um you know and it’s the most uh subjective experience too because you know the uh homers but knowing what’s happening and then also moralize is poetically telling you in symbols what’s going on and then he’s certain point you know points he pulls back and just shows you what’s going on but the odysseys is all just one direction it’s all just how great my fantasy or how great this um you know west is and um the failure to to integrate back home like that’s a yeah there’s you two worlds mythology right there you know you’re gonna have the happy ending if you want no you have the happy ending if you want but this is this is it’s you know it’s not everything’s that way it’s it’s it’s weird there’s no such thing as a happy ending we all die like i don’t i don’t have to tell you lucas didn’t stop why should scorsese yeah because he saw what happened when lucas didn’t stop that’s my argument i think yeah lucas he’s got worse over time he definitely should have stopped i think i think i think he was portrayed i actually think that the uh the prequels aren’t as bad as people think you just you just rooting no no they’re not they’re not in hindsight but look the guy can’t write like i don’t know what else to tell you he’s just terrible um all the best lines all the best lines in the first three movies are ad libs for real like well documented you know like like the i love you i know this script that that freaking lucas wrote because he’s three years old was i love you too like dude like that a way out of character and be dumb like what like what is wrong with you like come on like it’s supposed to be dramatic it’s you know like i don’t even like how did how did he write that like what what was what lobotomy did you get before you took pen to paper on that one what about i hate sand yeah it’s a great what about i hate sand yeah that’s yeah that’s another one it’s like who the hell you know wrote this like what is wrong with these people uh-oh the holy duck oh thank you holy duck uh i enjoy the illiad a lot more than the odyssey jesse thanks for bringing attention to it there we go attention matters attention i’m currently reading and studying the illiad so and then i’ll do the odyssey so i might i might actually bring myself to do a book review at some point do a book projects better book reviews me i don’t know what club will you actually read it though mark if i if i if i bought you a copy of the illiad and send it to you will you read it in a book this is live navigation everyone this is what i do with mark and i don’t know it worked last time ethan sent me the the republic and then danny’s the one who started up the book club and basically said you need to come to my book club and i was like i guess i do like i like submission is the thing for me it’s like oh you guys are having a book club and you need my help i guess i’m gonna be at a book club like i don’t know what else to say like it’s not a magical equation right it’s not like oh we have to pay you billions of dollars although i would prefer that uh-huh it was just like these people need my help like okay well then we’ll we’ll read the stupid republic one thing i would like to do too i would like to do a book club on the language of creation the material you would have to do a you would have to do a video book club on that yes book club and or review no no reviews are evil actually single perspective very bad very don’t single perspective is bad it’s not distributed cognition so it’s automatically going to reciprocally narrow and and that that doesn’t have no utility but no one’s been reviewing things for years anyway yeah well yeah but and and all the major all the major you review people aren’t doing refuse anyway so right but if you read multiple reviews by multiple people then that’s better but doing one review is not better right and this is where people get confused because things don’t scale correctly ha ha teku and yes language of creation yay right like lots of lots we can make it happen i i yeah that that’s a way more likely thing even though it would be slow as hell because it’s a small book but symbolism runs deep um you know that that’s a real like that’s a real possibility like i could really i’d put that on this channel for sure like i put that on navigating that we’d do that every how many how many like 60 chapters or something there you go it’s a whole year it’s a whole year’s worth of one week streams maybe maybe i don’t know i i mean i’d have to i’d have to think about it would but it would be good to have distributed cognition on language of creation like that would be good to see and good to engage with i think that would be in that positive because then people could really start to see some of the stuff you know correctly so having a distributed cognition on that particular book i think would be super helpful for people and i think it would get a lot of attention actually yeah it’s 84 it’s five parts so we could condense some things could be addressed at the same time is a contrast which would help like you know two hours or so so you don’t need to do 84 single some things might need to be single you know single examples and single deep dives how you want to frame it i don’t i think some things you would need to combine you could jet through most of those chapters the problem is the symbolism gets deeper as the book goes on and oh yeah oh yeah then you have to think more about it it’s i think the beginning of the book you can fly and then towards the middle of the book you start to kind of get a normal pacing and then towards the end it’s just like whoa yeah you’re on cosmic scale of i’m not ready for this or something like that right no that’s that’s very true and maybe we could we could if we do it we could um subconter the master of the master of symbols himself so it should be interesting i would actually really like to get both you guys together if you i could get you to agree on it you probably cannot although i had some indication that uh that might be changing okay but no i know he’s wanting to break away from his brother a bit well yeah i don’t know if yeah i don’t know what’s going on with all that that’s an interesting uh an interesting idea penjamin franklin here’s here’s somebody’s been told he’s much smarter than he is uh odyssey kind of gets a bad rap i don’t know about that uh it’s a simple hero’s journey oh good lord no uh a less true statement could not be made uh in english that focuses on an that focuses on an individual protagonist what what what book did you read iliad focuses on collective agencies what what are collective agencies i don’t even know what that is wait a second wasn’t the trojan horse at the end of the iliad yeah there we go by your cab the trojan horses in nowhere near the iliad you don’t they don’t even take the city in iliad that’s the odyssey and it’s actually done as a back projection it’s a hindsight is oh yeah this happened this is how we did it by the way it’s not it’s not a major part it’s a it’s a it’s a um what do they call it flashback scene yeah yeah uh oh danny i’m interested in a book club on language of creation as well danny you got me into enough trouble with this stupid republic book club i’m not listening to you anymore um penjamin franklin oh like you know look i run into this on twitter all the time people are like don’t you mean xyz blah blah blah and i’m like no i think i meant exactly what i said and then they’re like well you need to explain this and i’m kind of like um i did and you don’t get it and i’m okay with that and you’re probably not what do you want me to do i can’t explain everything everyone um yeah get a concept and put it into linkipedia you you quickly look for the buzzwords and the content things and you go hey it’s that Benjamin Franklin i read it a long time ago maybe i’m remembering incorrectly isn’t the odyssey about return journey of odysseus yes but he does it many times he never actually returns yet that’s the theme of the story that’s not what it’s about those are different things like themes often run through things but what they’re about is what the theme is exemplifying right and and that’s why you can take different themes and just put the same story in there and those patterns get contrasted right and so you can you know you can see this in people will go oh well this movie is like this movie right or you can see how a common theme plays out with different characters and and different sets and the best way to see something like that is to look at something like the matrix which has effectively the same theme as well a hell of a lot of other movies so well well yeah but but i bought a yeah that they use a template like really they really use a template when was this template agreed upon that theme that theme that’s in the matrix is you just comes out in so many other movies like a lot of the other movies you you know you’ve talked about um are along that line right because you see that theme emerges that’s why you were talking about all those films the ideas that are wrestled with in that movie are wrestled with in vanilla sky right like they’re there it’s it’s you know that theme is is the same is the same basic theme right the the the stuff that’s in a lot of anime deals with the same theme right this transformation this idea that we’re slaves right is the environment holding us back right because i mean the matrix is the environment’s holding us back and therefore we must fight the environment and it’s like okay yeah that that theme then there’s you know there’s not one theme we’ll say but the change in the themes uh is interesting because the theme itself hasn’t moved moved right the the way it’s being exemplified is moved my my take on my my if i was to say one thing about the matrix is that it’s about agency it’s about the fact that neo becomes agent by the end of the film if you didn’t understand that or see that then i can’t help you i can’t help you see the other elements that actually um reinforce that is that you know neo becomes a part of the system they never free anyone else throughout the entire other movies once neo is freed from the matrix yeah it’s basically the only other time you see near someone free from matrix is neo in trinity in the fourth film which is a fan vision um just like there isn’t yeah it’s it’s about agency um and in fact yeah the only other person who gets freed from the matrix is agent smith like it’s freed from the the digital world and he comes into the second matrix which is the real world or whatever the stool worlds you could say um so yeah yeah i i can’t talk about that film mark without without proper framing otherwise people aren’t ready the um the magic trick that’s being played on them um which is to say that uh what you’re seeing is narrative patterns which to get to get to back to how we got on this what you’re seeing is narrative patterns um stories are stories are implementations of narrative patterns the same narrow patterns are in how are in the matrix now which is the same patterns that are applied in lion king or star wars or or whatever else you know harry potter has the same thing as it’s yeah it’s just a the journey to become a mage or journey to become fully self-empowered yeah these are common narrative things because it’s um it’s essentially it’s built upon a cathartic story to really get back to it philosophical great tradition of storytelling right right but you see like ghost but you see like ghost in the shell ghost in the shell is the same themes that are in the matrix it’s the same base questions the same themes but themes aren’t narrative points that was that was what i was no no well i don’t yeah okay i don’t like the way people use the word narrative at all well because because they equivocate on that word so much like the people don’t understand narrative and story up video um they don’t differentiate between when you’re talking about narrative you need to account for the fact that there’s theme there’s setting right there’s characters there’s character development there are arcs and those are all independent pieces and so the narrative is not just the conglomeration of those other pieces it’s one piece among many and that’s the problem is that we don’t have that enchanted view of how actually complicated this is in fact and this is where the this is where people say well the postmoderns had a point no they didn’t they were all evil by the way they didn’t have a point um but this is where they get it from building a story that makes sense that actually works and manifests what we would identify as mere narrative is so hard for you to do that no single person can do it and so they’re channeling the distributed cognition through time that they grew up with right through other stories right to point their story at one or more of these narrative patterns which is one layer up and because of that fact that it the lower thing abstracts because those abstractions were brought down as best that person could do and stitched together and flattened in a way that points back up and if that reciprocal relationship the upper thing comes first it comes down upon you and then you do something with it you realize it maybe realize it make it real right manifest reality with it and if the reality points up you’re pointing to a narrative pattern and if it points across it’s basically something like fiction right and if it points down it’s bad stuff like Karl Marx right or or Hegel or like any number of garbage novels romance novels etc and it’s not that there isn’t a pattern to a romance novel there is you can just stamp them out uh it’s that was one of the first uh sort of genres that had like a very clear simple workable pattern by the way if you don’t know the pattern for romance novels don’t look it up it’s actually terrifying that romance novels at least used to follow this particular pattern the pattern’s horrifying and the fact that it’s ridiculously effective is just disturbing right because it’s seduction seduction oh no it’s not no it’s way worse than that it’s it’s terrifying it’s absolutely terrifying yeah oh okay yeah yeah got it look i’ll talk about it yeah yeah the beginning yeah how do these things begin and then what happens right no thanks uh not a fan um the fact that i don’t even i don’t like call them romance novel because i want to re reharmonize that world for this prepostate um because a romance is technically meant to be an adventure an adventure that has a long lasting ending um and it’s meant to leave a tradition in its place that’s you know that’s why romance of the grail is yes right yeah right but but that points down but there’s a pattern there but it’s not a good pattern right in the same way that you can look at the works of carl marx and see patterns in what he’s saying right and then realize they’re ridiculous absurd nonsensical oversimplifications that lead to contradictions and self-reference and then go oh oh and by the way he’s leaving out a whole piece of the picture which is even if he were right he’s not right because manifesting the the system that he’s talking about still requires management it still requires someone at the top it still requires a hierarchy it’s just that he’s not and and any communist or socialist is just hiding the fact that well there’s still people at the top somebody owns the public land and gets to make decisions about it it’s just not you right it’s like yeah it’s not you the reader it’s me the writer the author the person who came up with the idea obviously i’m the one that came up with the idea i’m the one that needs to be in charge of this thing that’s very much the ethos of carl marx and many modern philosophers too um and many moderns in general right or what we call moderns um many of these people yeah and sam harris is on a bashed about it right like oh i have a 135 iq or whatever it is and i’ve got a moral system that works for people with this iq and therefore you do what i say yeah there’s always going to be different uh archetypal roles that people fit into and what carl marx did was to try and put a black highlighter through a particular archetype which is the merchant more or less speaking and saying we need to depower these people so we have top down top down power from above um rather than having this the integrated light layers of um participation within society we’re just going to essentially flatten or yeah if it’s a triangle we’re going to reduce the amount of layers of um see in the world to bring that point so yeah um some people have more agency than others i’m sorry to say that that is actually just right oh we’re different in fact yeah like everybody wants to be an individual until they realize that means you can’t be equal and then they’re like no no we want to be equal i was like yeah but you’re an individual like but you’re gonna make up your mind kid like you’d pick one or come to the realization that there’s a better way to think about all this and then your conflict goes away like you’re a person and you’re connected to other persons and that changes the game sort of significantly right yeah well you know i mean i don’t like person i think the horrible character that’s a topic for a different day well if you’re a character you can develop other character traits you can develop your character you can play the role in the drama or the story well like you could you could be a side character but still shine out uh excellence in that side character role that that’s honorable yeah but if you’re a person you can manifest multiple characters and that’s what’s really important right they talk about character development it’s like i’m skeptical skeptical in that for various reasons i think people put themselves in holes rather than get themselves out holes so oh yeah absolutely yeah they absolutely do and that is the problem is that when you try to reduce identity to one thing right you you end up classifying yourself and the world as single characters and that’s not a possible configuration for you because you’re a person and some people just end up confused yeah these are complicated uh dynamics to navigate yeah yeah it is because it’s there’s a causality question in there and i don’t i don’t know that we haven’t answered the causality question okay yeah well i know too i’m a struggling artist trying to figure shit out uh literally speaking you you actually have to swim through the sewers of the dead city in order to get to some city on the hill um to peterson’s point you have to struggle up you know what often lays out is that uh city on the hill is actually that struggle up the hill is full of skeletons it’s full of pitfalls and darkness it’s not a it’s not an easy journey up it’s you know you’re you’re um right the struggle is the thing like the struggle is life and that’s what you know people like i don’t want to struggle it’s like well you don’t want to be alive and then and then they wonder where the nihilism comes from i’m like duh i don’t understand why this is so hard for you to get but uh that’s that’s very that’s where you need to integrate your werewolf tendencies to last week’s point that’s right benjamin franklin people do seem to demonstrate different characters and different identities because everybody has more than one identity probably but it’s not like that’s the way it is and it’s not like that’s the way it is work personality is a great example well any personality is a great example but that’s just your identity in that situation yeah the agent arena relationship is real it’s just that john leaves out the fact that there are no agents that exist only in one arena and there’s no arenas with only one agent and then once you understand that his system works fine and until you understand that you have this stupid individualistic frame that will not help you but it will right and and peterson peterson has a different formulation to say agent arena relationship but he talked about it in maps of meaning um which begs the question hmm where’s this stuff coming from uh which is a good question to ask like who came first we were watching gladiator the other day well we’ve halfway through it i had watched it many many years right it kind of dawned on me that gladiator is actually not about the gladiator fights at all the gladiator is about the decline of the empire essentially that changes how you completely view the entire film if you stop viewing it as this sort of um framing about this one character’s journey from you know low high low yeah whatever you say like that so viewing as one one up focalization of the narrative or what would be easier for people to understand um yeah the single i the single thing you’re meant to identify with in the film is just the russell crows character as soon as you see that is this a collection of of events that are happening that symbolize you know what became and how it fell then the movie takes on a completely different um tone it’s it’s no longer about you know how great russell crow is acting in is it about what the movie uh exemplifies which is why i think they survived all this time and still holds up even 20 years later it’s because it’s about um the battle of ideas essentially uh the deep down um and what uh the corruption actually came at both levels essentially what the movie argues for there was actually a bottom-up emergence that was evil and corruptive uh the mob as a top-down corruption because um the elites all the ruling class corrupted themselves through um lack of service to to the traditions that they were meant to be founded on right well i i would argue it’s the top down that causes the bottom up nobody likes that everybody likes emergence is good and i’m like now no i’m not saying that you know i’m not saying that no no no i’m just saying that that’s the trap people fall into they well it’s top down and bottom up it’s like yeah but one came first one is more important and it’s your lack of the ability to accept a creation narrative uh and and the inevitability of the need for creation to come first uh which leads to being as good or maybe being as good as required to understand creation i don’t know doesn’t really matter but that’s what’s preventing people from being able to move forward because whenever you’re like oh it’s bottom up and top down you’re not accounting for the fact that one is more important than the other like one is primary one came first it’s not the bottom up i think obviously um there was no bottom in the beginning and and and yeah this yeah okay but the implication of that right implication of that is that there is a hierarchy it does matter what’s on top the thing on top determines the goodness of the emergence right and that means that you need to keep your eyes on the good but but also yeah the reason why a good movie is good like casablanca or you know the maltese falcon which is fantastic um or dr helargo or yeah or uh or citizen launch very like these but these movies are good because although they are quote about one character uh many of them uh the richness of the world that’s created is past the skill of the creator right and that again this is the confusion of the post-modern they’re like oh that must mean that framing is arbitrary and you can just make up whatever you want and it’s like no it it means the opposite of that actually it means that the manifestation coming down from above matters and how close you get to it and how you get to it like how you uh put the emergence together matters a lot and the way it matters unfolds over time yeah those are great points to uh maybe yeah to reinstate that there’s actually a funny thing i know when we’re watching that gladiator movie which is it starts with the war with the gulfs right and this is meant to be the last what last war with the gulfs in the roman swin and it’s with you know marcus really is dies and said christina it’s funny that you know they’re saying oh we finally won against the wall with the goals and yet you know given time it’s actually the goals that rule over women the end so this is the thing of the corruption and the top down was already they think they’re losing they’re winning the last great wall but really it’s just the start of a new set of events where the you could say the the long-lasting uh power structure actually won out in the end which was the germanic uh the roman uh we just yeah there’s a reason why that movie starts in that place it’s not just because it’s an epic battle scene and we need to identify characters that are great it’s actually starting with a thematic thread that if you don’t know these things if you don’t have that uh uh i wouldn’t say sacred knowledge or secret knowledge but if you don’t have a prolam it to the complete overarching story you’re going to miss out what the narrative is telling you or what how the narrative yeah i would i would push back exemplifies the truth the less analysis you do the better the movie is that’s the like any movie you can enjoy without understanding is a better movie it’s just a better movie like the less gnosis you need the better off you are and i think that’s really the problems are so focused on well also i was trying to point out the richness of the story i was not trying to put to the yeah no no no no i don’t think richness has anything to do with your conscious awareness of anything i think it’s quite the opposite the more consciously aware you are of most things the less rich they become because you’re not engaging with them at a visceral level and yeah there’s a problem with that when you have flat media movie is literally flat media but also it’s still it’s still holds right it still holds because the postmodern ethos is born from flat media just books would be just what would be what would be an example there yeah i mean really anything i mean everybody likes the matrix and almost nobody like when i tell people no one ever actually escaped the control of the machines they’re still in control of the world like nothing changes because the result of neo is not freed from servitude to the the computer robot computer god like that never happened and they’re stunned they’re like what like they didn’t see that and i’m like oh fair like okay still really like you know what i mean like they still got a lot out of it now i would argue most of what you get out of the matrix was actually negative like i’m a huge matrix i love the matrix i do i really love the movie but man talk about bad signals bad information bad knowledge and just badness like crammed into a movie uh wow like it’s what you know it should win a prize what i think makes something uh rich though is the fact that it has these fractal like fractal elements to it that you can just participate it in a lot of things it has richness yeah right and it’s and it’s the fact that it has like what’s the fractal quality there oh you’re plugged in at the low level of the machine at the battery level when you get freed you’re still subject to the machine at the larger level of the of the culture okay i think we’re so still right it keeps scaling up with every with every iteration yeah and it’s emergence i emerge from my birth into the machine right i emerge from the machine into my second birth my rebirth into the the the hull of the of the hovercraft i am rebuilt right i am rebuilt from scratch because i did not know how to use my body muscles yeah yeah right and then and then i am re-educated right through a computer at speed like nobody notices the computer is re-educating the guys it’s all technology all the way down right and then they make that point in the second movie yeah he’s yeah machine literally a machine no they literally say he’s um how long has he been this for 12 hours he’s literally a machine like right right right but then when he gets to zion right and the senator’s talking to him and says do you know what that machine is it’s something to do with water purification i don’t know how it works but we need it so counteracting the message of the first movie which is we don’t need these damn machines we were living before them we can get rid of them and then it’s like wait a minute now you can’t get rid of them what’s going on with that no one notices this stuff but they get that fractal sense without having that level of ability to break down the movie like and and like i i get it like i love that movie i actually still love it i still watch it and enjoy it and appreciate it and and and and for me the analysis doesn’t kill it for a lot of people it does for me i it doesn’t it doesn’t matter you know like i’ve analyzed um uh you know real genius which is a fantastic movie i’ve analyzed war games another fantastic movie that i really love i’ve analyzed these things and i still watch them and enjoy the stash troopers i’ve probably seen stash of troopers like 20 times for me and never get sold i love that i’ve only seen it like three or four times no it’s great it’s great on multiple levels that’s the sign up that sign up itself it’s like you forgot you you thought you were rebelling against the the original author but in fact you actually made the original author’s point stronger right well he couldn’t you can’t escape like you can’t escape certain patterns and like once you step on that path you know you never know where it’s going to lead right and and that’s the and that’s a and that’s the problem and i yeah and i think that’s that’s you know that’s a good a good way to wind it down right a good a good note to wind it down on so summarize it up jesse what you got for us on the way out here oh gosh that’s as he drinks in the bottle i’ll give jesse i’ll make jesse talk so it gives me a chance to reflect on what’s being said oh gosh um you know my tricks too well not going to escape participation in the real world oh i like that i like that and that participation for me is going to follow these patterns these fractal patterns and they they do coalesce uh in in language in expression in thought over time like they do turn into something deeply interesting and important um and there’s you know there’s nothing you can do about that like like this is these are you know inevitable ways of of uh interacting with the world and and interfacing with the world so yeah like you’re just you’re going to get stuck in in certain uh in certain things and you’re going to start seeing these themes over and over again in the art conferences in the speeches right jonathan pichot has been on a freaking roll uh his talk at chino about the world is decay it’s like wow and then his art conference talk wow you know and in one way they’re not a continuation of a theme but actually they’re a continuation of a theme and then once you see it you can’t unsee it and that’s that’s really what i’m trying to do is tie all these things together and show you you know this mating crisis thing is everywhere and it’s being seen by everyone at different rates right but people are starting to really really bump into it and and you don’t have to be fearful of that you can be grateful that you know things are moving towards order now how much chaos will still manifest because the momentum of chaos is still a force in the world i don’t know um but there there is a shining light in the distance and you can move towards it and moving towards it as jesse said is your mode and method of participation and so i appreciate everybody being here today and participating in the live chat and hopefully in the comments down below if you’re watching this uh not live and uh i’m i’m still happy to do these live streams even though do these live streams even though i’m dog tired man i’m gonna i’m gonna sleep tonight let me tell you it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s gonna be it’s gonna be a good night’s sleep um and and service be yeah be of service be of service to others and look uh we’re coming up on all kinds of travel so uh next friday we should be able to do a stream the friday after that we’re definitely not doing a stream uh the friday after that no stream right that’s probably thanksgiving so yeah we’re gonna be light on streams i think until i think we got one more and then it’s gonna be december so just a warning uh and if you like what you see like comment subscribe if you want to see language creation book club put that put your hat in the ring for that uh you know whether you want to actually participate in it or not and um i know they’ve done them before i’ve been in questions yeah i’ve had one yeah whatever you want to do i mean obviously if if there’s enough interest then probably just have to do it at some point um whether we do do it as live streams or recorded or whatever we’ll figure it out if that’s what people want but um look the holidays are coming up things are going to get busy probably not like i said not going to have as many live streams unfortunately um but i’ll try to do as many as i can and uh have a great week everybody and i’ll see you next week if you have any ideas for a topic for next week leave in the comments and uh other than that look just participate with your eyes to the good with as many people locally as you can and filter out all the noise of the things you have absolutely no control over