Navigating spirits and egregores (K-OG1ZuUC8g)

https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=K-OG1ZuUC8g

Hello, hello, right. We are live. I think we’re live. I feel live. Do you feel live? I feel very live. Just setting things up. Obviously, I forgot my hat already. Look at that. What a mess. What a mess. Not with it yet. Terrible, terrible, terrible YouTube etiquette. There we go. So, yeah, today we’re going to be talking about spirits and egregores because it’s everybody’s favorite topic. Now, I’ve talked about this before many times, and I was reviewing actually some of my old chats around this sort of thing. And yeah, it’s an interesting topic. And really what I’m getting at when I’m talking about this in particular is the idea of what moves the world. Because that’s what we care about when we’re talking about this. We care about what’s moving the world. Why do we have words like spirit and words like egregore? Like what are these terms all about? And really, it’s about the end of materiality. It’s about the end of where the physical explanations, or we’ll call them maybe scientific explanations of the world, are. There’s a point at which the scientific explanation doesn’t serve us anymore. It’s not able to get to the heart of the matter. There’s a point at which this concept of materiality itself is not functioning. It’s not serving us. It’s not allowing us an engagement in the world that explains things in a way that we can predict them. And that’s really the issue. If you’re trying to live in the world, and I mean, I’m guessing here, but just guessing that you’re probably trying to live in the world, then the challenge that you have is really all around making a prediction about what’s going to happen in the future. And when you’re using knowledge, especially scientific knowledge in particular, as the only method of making sense of the world, there are limits to that. And once you hit those limits, you’re kind of done. You’re kind of finished. It’s kind of over. And as I was saying before, I’ve done videos on this. I have a video on Egregor’s spirits and memes. And it’s a good video. Everybody should check it out. Egregor is an occult term. And it’s an interesting term. And it is related to memes, I think. And it’s related to spirit. And the reason why it’s interesting is because what it’s getting at is an explanation for why things are happening in spite of the science predicting something else. And you can look at the science in terms of, say, economics. You can look at the science in terms of politics. You can look at the science in terms of material sciences. Or you could say hard sciences versus soft sciences. It doesn’t matter. These are all frames and models with limitations. And when they reach the end of their limitations, especially for people who think that they shouldn’t have limitations, what ends up happening is they need an alternate explanation to kind of keep themselves alive. And so that explanation tends to be Egregor. And I went over this in the video that I posted there, the Egregor spirit meme video there. So the reason why is because it’s a pre-existing word and it’s not religious. And if you don’t want a religious term, you’re going to go after it from like Egregor, which is a cult word. You can look it up. It’s from like 1500, 1700. I don’t know. It’s an old word. But it is just it comes out of Gnosticism. It comes out of occultism, specifically occultism. It is an occult term. And you may say, well, why an occult term? Yeah, why not a religious term? And that’s because they were trying to avoid religious terms. That’s all. It’s not hard. You know, it’s like you want some grand explanation. You’re not going to get it. They’re just avoiding religious terms. So they use Egregor. And that’s the problem is that we’re just hitting the limits of something in terms of explanation. And we don’t know what to use, what word to use, because we’ve already decided against using pre-existing language like spirit. Spirits come in many forms, right? And Egregors are a subtype of spirit. They are almost always demons, by the way. They’re almost always things that you can evoke. And the reason why I came about in this little corner, we’ll say, is because effectively people were noticing that things were happening and they were outside of their models. You can look at somebody like Jordan Hall. Jordan Hall has lots of models. He’s a very smart guy, especially technically. And he’s also very enchanting. So he says a lot of things that are completely inaccurate but sound really good. And fair enough, whatever. But his models failed. He made a bunch of predictions for three years and five years. And three and five years later, they didn’t work. So suddenly, it’s like, oh, well, there are Egregors. And then other people came up with autocults. There was another term. There were four guys that had three different terms. And they’re all talking about exactly the same thing. They agreed they were talking about the same thing. They all agreed that, yes, we’re all talking about the same thing. And we have different words. They all said that. It was hysterically funny. So hopefully, that answers this particular question of what an Egregor is. It really is just another word for spirit. It’s not some, like, it’s an occult term. It’s something you can either invoke or can possess you or possess something, a body. Right? And hopefully, that goes back to Mel’s question here. How do you distinguish an Egregor from institutional memory? Yeah. Egregors are the description of institutional memory. Like, if you listen to the talk that, and I don’t remember the title of it. It was a silly talk. It was on the Stowa. But Jordan Hall was there. And there were a bunch of other guys there. There were four of them. And they were describing institutional memory. They were describing cities. They were describing school spirit. They were describing all the standard things that you describe when your materialism fails you. And they were saying Egregor or occult. Or I can’t remember the other name. The other name was funnier than occult. I just remember it was really funny. So I apologize for my bad memory. I had a nap before this, unfortunately. And that was not a voluntary nap. So brain’s a little slow today. Hopefully, it won’t slow me down to the point. I got my tea. We’ve got some kombucha today. This is what we’re going to drink. One of the things we’re going to drink, we get some spiced tea. We get some water. We get some Jordan almonds. We get a little snack. Why? Because one of the things that’s driving me is thirst and hunger. Now, the best way to think about these things, you say, oh, those are needs. But what is a need? Are there different types of needs? Because I kind of think there are. Otherwise, we’d all have the same set of needs. And we don’t. We have overlapping needs. The best way to think about these things is the spirit of hunger, the spirit of thirst. There’s a driver there. That’s what drives us. That’s what drives us. And it’s what I’m pointing to when I’m talking about this. And I did a quick review of the channel. And basically, yeah, I talk about this in a ton of videos. Some explicit videos and some less explicit videos. But I do mention things like spirit all the time. Why? Because when materialism fails to describe something, you need an alternative. And that alternative just doesn’t work. And that alternative just turns up to be egregores or spirits or memes. Memes is another one. I mean, the reason why I mention memes is because memes are things that Dawkins is using to describe non-scientific ways of the world moving. Right? So, the reason why memes are things that Dawkins is using to describe non-scientific ways of the world moving is because memes are things that Dawkins is using to describe non-scientific ways of the world moving. Now, that’s paraphrasing and maybe a little hyperbole, but actually not much. Not much. I’ll stand by it. I’ll go through and get the references if you’d like. That’s basically Dawkins’ thesis. These memes are the things that are viral upon your rationality and causing you to be irrational, illogical, and unreasonable. Why? Why would a scientist, a hardcore scientist, although I might even argue that point, have to make a move like that? He has to make a move like that because his idiotic science isn’t explaining anything. All right. He’s reached the limits of explanation within the science. And that’s a problem. And that’s why I talk about it. What drives us to do things? It’s not the material around us. And this came up. There was a tweet by Katherine Brodsky, again, my favorite journalist, mentioned her in that other video there that I pasted, about platforms and social media and what social media is doing to us. Social media is bearing down on us. It’s a clause. Social media is not doing anything to us. We drive social media. We made social media. We made social media. Like, we did that. It didn’t pop out of nowhere and do something to us. It wasn’t imposed upon us. You can say anything that people bring into being imposes upon all the other beings on the planet. Yeah, I agree. So does Jordan Peterson. What you do matters. Everything you do matters. Yeah, everything. Oops. That’s a problem. That’s a problem. That’s a problem. Oops. That’s a problem. I’m stuck on a planet with a bunch of people who are doing things that matter and they don’t even know it. Yeah, there’s a perennial problem if you want to grab some cool verveci language. And it is a problem. It is the problem. We don’t know what drives us. We’re trying to use materialist frames like science to explain what drives us. And it can’t do it. It cannot do it. It definitely cannot, absolutely cannot, cannot, not, will any day now. We’re one more discovery away. There’s one more scientific experiment. And then we’ll have the god particle. Oh, we did the scientific experiment. We found the god particle. And now we have six more particles to find. Oops. Oops. But now we’re only six experiments away, guys. And once we get one, we’ll only be five. Do you know how many times that’s happened? Do you think the boson was the first time they said, we have one more particle to find? And then the particle physics model will be, nope, nope, it’s not even the fourth time that’s happened. You know how many times it’s going to keep happening? An infinite number of times. You can’t say that with any certainty. No, I can. The math has a failure point. We know what it is. It has been calculated because math is finite. And we know where the beginning and end of math is. It ain’t going to work. It’s that simple. It’s a great map for a bunch of things. It’s a terrible map for a bunch of things. And one of them is motivation of humans. Terrible map for motivation of humans. Materialism, particle physics, quantum, none of it explains any of that. Will you explain hunger using quantum theory? Good luck. I’ll wait here. And that’s why this is important. What is driving things? What is driving things? What are we, why is it that we don’t even talk about, you know, what’s really driving people? And we come up with these rationalizations and excuses. I mean, this is the problem with being stuck in materiality. And so I’ll post you all another video of mine that I think is awesome about materiality. And these bad frames that we have are very pernicious. And they’re, you know, they’re weighing on our soul and preventing us from understanding how the world works. And when we try to carve the world up with the scientific tools, with the materialist tools, we’re killing the world. This is the frog problem. I have frogs around my pond, a beautiful pond, lovely frogs, very noisy this time of year. I can know what frogs are like by watching them in their natural habitat, and I will know certain things about them. There are certain things I will not know about them by watching them in their natural habitat together. There’s certain things I’m not going to learn about the frogs. There is another set of things. I can know a bunch more stuff about one frog if I dissect it. If I dissect the frog, the frog is dead. Now I don’t know a bunch about it. I don’t know what it would have done had it lived. That may seem banal and sort of obvious and trite, but it’s not. It’s actually super important. I also don’t know what taking that frog out of that environment actually does to the environment. I have no idea. I don’t know. There’s the butterfly effect. Ooh, what about the dissected frog effect? It’s the same effect, by the way. These things matter. I can know the organs of the frog and then infer that other frogs have the same organs in roughly the same configuration, but that frog could be an outlier. He could have a heart switched on the other side of his body like some humans do. All animals have that quality. Or he could have other organs in the wrong place. Or he could have all his organs in the wrong place, because that happens too, by the way. The evolutionism isn’t very good at these things. If I take that one frog and infer what other frogs are like on the inside from it, it’s already wrong. To what degree? I don’t even know. I can start dissecting frogs and then get an average. Then evolution is going to change all that anyway. How’d that work out for you? Oops, we forgot about change in the world through time. It’s quite possible. It’s mathematically certain and has been proven. There are multiple, multiple white papers about this. By the time you discover using scientific or materialistic means enough data about the thing, it’s already changed. There’s a lot of evidence too, and people don’t realize this, that that’s true for physics. There’s a whole thesis going around that. One of the solutions to the difference in Newtonian dynamics, there’s a thing called modified Newtonian dynamics, and there’s other solutions to that problem. There seems to be a difference between Newtonian dynamics far out in space versus here on Earth and within our solar system. There’s Newtonian dynamics on one scale and then another scale, and maybe two other scales. Who knows? We don’t know. One solution to that is to say that, oh, the closer you get to the Big Bang in time, the smaller, there are small differences that occur such that back then, Newtonian dynamics actually worked differently, and as the universe expanded, Newtonian dynamics changed, and it will continue to change. There is a theory about that. So that would mean that knowing Newtonian dynamics now doesn’t help you in a thousand years. Right? Because it’s going to change. It’s going to change. And so by the time you get the ability to know that, it’s already different. How did that help you? Did that help you? Are you sure that helped you? Sounds like a problem, not a solution. I do want to address this, Mills, a little bit. One thing that kind of helped me understand that everything matters is to eliminate the idea that there is space between things, black and white paint poured side by side and stirred. Yeah, I mean, that’s a reasonable way to think about it. I think the problem is that when you look at something like Zeno’s paradox, you can see that using a materialist frame has a limitation. A materialist frame cannot tell you how you can touch a wall, because in the materialist frame, you cannot do that. Actually, that’s what Zeno’s paradox says. And I know all kinds of people are going to pull out all kinds of science. They’re all wrong. Every single one of them, they’re wrong. Zeno’s paradox is not incorrect. It is showing you a limit of science, a limit of measurement, a limit of quantity. And science is a measure of quantity. It’s not a measure, quality. You can’t measure quality. You feel quality. You don’t measure it. You feel it. You intuit quality. You know quality by your interaction with it and by exactly zero other things. That’s why the things that drive us are spirit. That’s why they’re spirit. That was the spirit of needing a drink, driving me to take some water. It’s super important to understand the driver in the world. You can keep your materialism. That’s fine. It’s just that it can’t be the driver for the world. You can’t blame social media for the fact that you look at it. And, you know, look, valid critique. Mark always has his phone next to him. This is true. This comes with me pretty much everywhere. I do leave it out sometimes. But yeah, I bring it with me all the time. The phone’s on silent mode. It doesn’t make any noise. You can phone me right now. I’ll see it, but I won’t hear it. Why? I’m busy! I’m busy! You can Facebook message me. I’m busy! I’m gonna see it. Is social media ruining my life? No! I shut it off! Why? I have control! I’m the agent. Social media is not an agent. Facebook can’t make you look at Facebook. Twitter can’t make you write a tweet. The time, energy, and attention, T, that’s going into that comes from you! You want to understand will to power, time, energy, attention. Will to power. Boom! Problem solved. What does that mean? That means that people with more focus have more power. That is true. But what causes them to say do good versus bad things? What causes them to interact with the world in the way that they do? Can we measure these things? Let’s try measuring. What’s a measure of people? What’s a measure of people that we can use? Oh, I know! We can make up a crazy measure like IQ. Okay, IQ is a completely useless measure. I know that. I know that. I know that. I know that. I know that. It’s a useless measure. I hate to say it. It’s a measure of stupidity, as Nassim Taleb says. Nassim Taleb’s great. Read all his books. The problem with that is that lots of things are good measures of stupidity. And I think there’s a technical reason why this would be true. Let’s just assume, because IQ is based on average. The basis of the measurement of IQ is the average, which is a strange way to do gauge theory for sure, but also useful. And so, if you don’t understand gauge theory, you should look up gauge theory, you’ll be horrified at the end, I assure you. So you use the average, and that’s how you’re indexing the numbers. The top end and bottom end numbers only matter because they’re scaled. And you can change the average, and that actually changes the scale, right? It changes how many people are below the line, how many people are above the line, and you want roughly equal, that’s what an average roughly is. Let’s not get into average versus mean versus the other one. Brain, sorry, brain not working. As you go down the funnel to the lower numbers, to the dumber side, you have fewer and fewer degrees of freedom in your intelligence. As you go up, you have more and more. But there’s nothing preventing you from adding dimensionality to that. And so, maybe everything above the average actually has access to a third dimension. And maybe everything, one standard deviation above the average has access to a fourth dimension. And so, flattening that to one set of numbers of IQ doesn’t tell you anything. Okay, I’ve met lots of smart people. Thank you, it’s median. There’s four of them, actually, I think. Yeah, there’s average, mean, median, there’s another one. I’ve met lots of smart people. I used to live in Boston. There were lots of smart people there. I used to hang out at Harvard Square all the time. Like every evening, practically, I’d walk down to Harvard Square from where I lived. Even when I lived in Brookline, which is a long walk, by the way. Because basically, there’s no good bus there. It’s like, it’s a straight walk, like nothing. I mean, it’s a long walk. It’s a straight walk from my house over there. But take the train to get it in town and out of town. And the train, the subway sucks. And it’s not terrible. I love living on the subway. I really miss it, actually. But there’s no bus. They didn’t have any circular buses because they don’t know how to run a… I think nobody in this country knows how to report or any country, as near as I can tell, knows how to run a bus system. When you go to these places and talk to smart people at Harvard and MIT and, you know, Tufts and Boston University and Boston College and Northeastern University, these are all like right there. Boston University is, you know, was my hub for a while. And then I started hanging out at Harvard Square all the time. What you notice is a lot of these people will, you know, one way or another manage to accidentally find an excuse to tell you their IQ. Very mysterious, by the way. I don’t care about your IQ, really. I just can’t think of anything I care less about in a person than their IQ, to be quite honest. Aside from my skepticism of tests in general, and I test very well, by the way. I just smoke tests completely. Testing is unfair with me in it. These people would say they had very similar IQs of the same number or whatever on the same test because there are three or four different popular tests, or at least a word at the time. They had vastly different understandings of the world, vastly different predictions and vastly different ideas. And vastly different directions and vastly different experiences. And as a result, I couldn’t derive anything from their stupid number. But there’s something more important. Do you prefer a person with 135 IQ? And we’ll just say that’s just five points above genius level, because 130 is one of the genius levels in one of the popular tests. Who’s evil? Or do you prefer somebody with, let’s say, a 90 IQ, which is just 10 points below average, who’s good? Evil and good are qualities. I can’t measure them. And nobody’s 100% good. And nobody’s 100% evil. Yeah, thanks. That’s helpful. Not. It’s not helpful. Sorry. The quality of mostly good versus the quality of mostly evil matters. And so trying to measure it or say mostly or say, well, it’s not 100%. These are useless designations. They’re useless. What drives us is spirit. The spirit is the intuition. That’s what you’re getting a sense for the quality of. It’s the quality, the intuition. Is this a good person? Is this the kind of person that’s going to be nice to me or the kind of person who’s going to stab me in the back? That matters. That matters. And look, everything we do can be thought of as being driven by a spirit. The spirit of hunger, the spirit of thirst, the spirit of lust. And just because I know it’ll make Ethan happy, although that’s not the only reason. It’ll make Ethan happy, although that’s not the only reason. When you talk about the difference between action and thought, you have to be very careful. There’s been a big dust-up because Dennis Prager talked in Exodus 10, which I haven’t seen 10 yet. I did see a clip. It was on Jordan Peterson’s channel. It’s a great clip from the Exodus series on Daily Wire. I haven’t even made it through 9 yet because reasons. But they were talking about porn. And Prager’s view was, unless it’s actual physical adultery, it’s not a sin. It’s fine. And look, I mean, he had a very clever, although I would call it invalid, but a very clever way around this. He said, the reason why is because if you’re engaged in porn and said, now I’m going to set up the problem at the same time, just like he did, I’m going to set up a problem and you’re not going to notice. If the porn prevents you from committing adultery, it is good. And if the porn takes away from your attention to your wife, it is bad. The problem is you didn’t fix the problem. You can’t determine good and bad from porn. And that’s why adultery is bad and it includes porn. Why? Because the spirit of your lust, right, moves your time, energy and attention away from either your wife or your work towards the highest good. I’ll just blame it nice and neutral that way for our agnostic friends. What does all this mean? It means that you’re a muppet. I’m a muppet. We’re all muppets. What are muppets? They’re moved by something. They’re moved by the spirit. We are a body that is being moved by spirits all the time. Sorry, Chad, I finally caught up with you. I was watching. I was like, I can’t jump that far ahead. We are bodies and our bodies are moved by something ethereal, something non-material, something outside of the realm of science. That thing is called spirit. There are lots of ways to think about spirit. I’m not going to go into a big treatise on spirit here and now in my crazy monologue because eventually I’m going to invite you all in and you can jump in and we can go over it in more detail. This blends into my last video release, which was on the word modern, on modernity. Man, my brain is just toast. I need to not get sick in the afternoon. Here’s my latest video. I think this is part of the youth of the world. I think this is part of the spirit issue. When you use a term like modernity, you’re trying to squish a time frame and identify a spirit in one term. And it doesn’t work. You’re tying the spirit to the time frame. I think that’s invalid already. I go over that in that video. There’s lots of reasons why I think that. There are good reasons because I made them and I make good reasons. That’s my justification. It matters what we name things and how we think about them. So you can look at something like critical consciousness and you can say, oh, you know, the spirit of this is good because they’re trying to raise awareness, which is attention, right? They’re trying to raise awareness for a problem. And that problem is something that we should address. Now, the we should address is unspoken, right? When you raise a problem, people think you should address it. It’s just, why else would you raise it? Why are you putting time, energy, and attention into putting forth a problem, bringing it forth, right? Like taking a problem, like my little toy tank, and bringing it forth. Why would I do this? Why am I doing this? I’m doing this to show you that I’m doing this. I’m doing this to show you the damn tank. I’m putting my time, energy, and attention into my cool toy from my childhood, by the way, really. I think I was six when I got this. Has a broken wheel though. Very sad. See the wheel missing. Very sad. Well, you must want me to look at it, Mark, because you held it up to the freaking camera and you had to get it off your desk. Yeah, I put my time, energy, and attention into the tank to show you something. That when you raise something, when you bring it up, it’s implied that people should respond. So you can say, there’s an element of Black Lives Matter that wants you to be aware of racism from the past. That’s the spirit. And you can name Black Lives Matter and cast the spirit as good. The spirit’s not good! Look at the results! Know them by their fruits. Just to quote a famous book, I think. I don’t know who wrote it though, because this is no author. What kind of book is that? So… You can’t just name things randomly. And this actually came up recently. Paul Vanderkleid did a video on this. You can’t just name things like the intellectual dark web, because you’re clever and your IQ’s 165 or whatever the hell it is, Eric Weinstein. And expect it to work! You can’t just name things. The name of the material, of the stuff below, the physicality, has to match an emanation from above. If it doesn’t match that emanation, it’s not gonna last. I’m not saying it can’t be. Emergence is real. Emergence is also random. Things emerge all the time. And then they vanish. And then they emerge again. And then they vanish. The question is, how long do they last and why? And if enough people put time into it, it’s gonna be a long time. And if enough people put time, energy and attention into something, it will last longer. That is true. But how long? And is it good? And is it true? And is it beautiful? You can rewrite history, but then it’s not true. I don’t want to get too far into the weeds of truth, but the spirit is part of what tells you if what you’re doing is true in some sense. And at the same time, you can be untrue to the spirit. If the spirit of Christmas is there and you’re Scrooge, you are untrue to the spirit of Christmas until you have a transformation, by the way, which is what that story is about. You’ll find it very interesting. There are lots of stories about transformation. So, this is a very good explanation, Mark. It helped me see a lot more from your perspective. Before I was confused. Well, I’m very happy to hear that. That actually pleases me to no end. And thank you for the feedback. I never know if people are understanding. I also wanted to highlight this because this is funny. Ethan, we are but muppets of the angels and fallen the like. Indeed. Indeed we are. There are muppets. And I want to address this too. Justice. Oh, I saw you earlier on the PVK livestream. Would you say moral categories are the only thing that matters? No, I don’t. You can’t categorize morals. Like this categorization is science talk. Destroy the science heresy and burn the witches. No, really. Like I’m there. I’ve said this before. Like these crazy science people are like it’s science versus religion in cage match. No, it’s not. Religion is not fighting you. Priests aren’t shooting scientists on the street. Although, and I’ve said this before, I’m open to the possibility at this point because I’m getting a little tired of the science people pretending like they’re under attack. Guys, guys, I’ve met a lot of scientists. If you were under attack, you’d get wiped out in five seconds. I’m sorry. Newsflash. If somebody were attacking you, you’d lose. You’d be dead. I’m sorry. I apologize. That is true. Okay? Stop. Stop pretending you’re under attack. Just cut it out. You might incite a war and you will lose that war instantly. No, don’t do that. You all suck at fighting. You suck at tactics. Your strategies are terrible. No, you’re all physically weak pretty much. It ain’t gonna work. Don’t do it. Don’t invoke the spirit of war. Just don’t. Please stop. My problem with Ukraine. I have a video on Ukraine, by the way. It’s very good. Very good video. I’ll grab it for you. My problem with Ukraine. Same thing. Look, guys, if we all pull together, we can make World War III happen. We can. We can do it. No, I don’t want to do that, though. I would prefer that we not do that. Why? Do not raise the spirit of World War III. Because if enough people put their time, energy, and attention into that spirit, it will manifest. I don’t want that. Maybe I’m crazy. You know, you don’t say, peace at any cost. No. No. You just stop paying attention to the war. You stop giving it time, energy, and attention, and it goes away. And that’s the thing that people are missing. It goes away. Does it have the outcome that you want? No. Do you know why? Do you know why things don’t have the outcome that you want? Because the spirits are driving things. Not you. You’re not driving the bus. And your ideas are stupid, by the way. Because you’re a muppet. I’m a muppet. We’re all muppets. We don’t know what’s driving us. The spirit drives us. We don’t understand what’s driving us. To quote Jordan Peterson, you don’t know what you’re up to. Yeah, you don’t. You have no idea what you’re up to. No idea. Uh-oh. IRL Politics is here. Welcome, my friend. It’s good to see you. Hello. I’m here for the Boston accent. Kind of. The problem is I spent four years in Kansas when I was young, and so I don’t say big things. The problem is I spent four years in Kansas when I was young, and so I don’t say barrel correctly, apparently. I don’t know. My uncle gets a kick out of it. He used to tell me to say barrel all the time. And then laugh at me. I don’t know. But I can do other accents. Like if you won’t, I can kind of get into some Southern drawlish, short A accent, if that’s more amusing to y’all. But it ain’t very pirate-ish. And I can’t do my pirate accent, so I apologize, because I’m out of it today, man. These naps. And I’m just going to blame my copy of the Republic, which I was reading outside before I suddenly realized I had to take a nap real fast. These naps kill me, so they just wipe out my brain. This is a good question. So, is ideology like fascism and egregor that manifests through culture and people? Yeah, I think it is. I think it is. Yeah, I don’t believe in ideology. I just call them religion. Or cults is probably a better term. Ideology is just cults. And I think they’re inevitable, right? It actually is embarrassing. It took me years to realize this. I could not figure out why in, let’s say, the current age, that way I don’t use the word modern, which I shouldn’t use given my last video. When you think about the current age and all the things we know about, say, World War I and World War II and the atrocities of the 1900s that were enabled by technology, that were enabled by a change in the spirits of the world, right? Because the middle class rose into prominence, became a larger part of the world. It was never not a middle class, but it was much, much smaller in medieval times, let me put it that way. Feudalism is small middle class, sort of a bifurcated upper class almost, where the principality of economics is competing with the principality of, what would you call it, rule through birth, or rule through heritage. When you have the rise of the middle class and the increase in technology, which come together, for some reason, I don’t even want to speculate which came first, one comes first, I have my theories, but they’re not relevant to this. A bunch of things change, and spirits sort of rip through the middle class, and that drives a bunch of stuff. And we’re not understanding what’s ripping through a bunch of stuff. What is this egregore? But when you start to understand that people with too much time on their hands, right, or with more time on their hands than they used to have, start thinking things through and trying to work things through for themselves. When they’re trying to be, or worse yet, they’re told they’re individuals, and I’ve been over this before, you’re not an individual. You were never an individual. You’re never going to be an individual. That isn’t going to happen. What people are talking about when they say they’re an individual or they’re talking about individualism is autonomy. Think of it in terms of autonomy. When you’re a baby, you have less autonomy. As you grow up, you have more autonomy, and then you have less autonomy again. And too bad Sally Jo’s not on the stream for me here because she did the Sphinx Riddle, the famous Sphinx Riddle from the Greek myths. It’s what has four legs in the morning, two legs in the afternoon, and three legs in the evening, I think is what it is, and the answer is man, right? And you grow from a baby to an adult to an old man with a walking stick. Yes. That’s a statement of autonomy through time. And notice you always have at least two legs firmly planted on the ground of this history. Right. And the history that predated humans, roughly speaking, would be called creation, incidentally, just to tie everything together because we’re tying everything together with spirit, that’s for sure. When you try to understand the world by yourself, you have a limited model from your own personal perspective. Nothing wrong with that. We all suffer from that. Why? Because you’re a Muppet. I’m a Muppet. We’re all Muppets. Muppets, they’re limited. We have limited perspectives. What does that mean? That means that if we build a model of the world to try to predict it, which we have to because we have to predict to live because that’s what life is. Life is. It’s about a bunch of predictions we make so that we don’t die. I’ve got to predict. Probably going to want to eat three times a day, although I don’t eat twice a day. I’ve got to predict what I might be hungry for. To some extent, unconsciously, it turns out we predict what we need in terms of food. We get more and less hungry for different things. Why is fast food a problem? Because it’s full of, for the most part, not entirely, but almost entirely, full of things that make us want them in an addictive fashion for real. But that’s all food because these spirits possess us. The spirit for more sugar, the spirit for more carbs, the spirit to feel full, even if the calories are, quote, empty calories, whoever you want to scientific that. It doesn’t really matter. Those are real phenomena. Those are real phenomena. When we try to model the world, we build a small world, a small closed world, because we want 100% certainty. Fair enough. You’re going to be 100% certain that you’re not going to die. Unfortunately, we’re not recognizing it. I can give you 100% certainty that you’re going to die. I can’t give you 100% certainty that you won’t resurrect, but that seems rare, so I wouldn’t be placing any money on that bet, that’s for sure. Also, it seems like if you resurrect, you’re actually not the same thing anymore. Another wrinkle. All that aside, so what happens? What happens? We create a world that’s so small that it’s closed. And in a closed world, socialism, wealth redistribution, is correct. If the world is a closed system, wealth redistribution is the right answer. It is. The problem is we don’t live in a closed system, obviously. As in, observe the world, you will notice. This cannot come from a closed system. I have a cell phone. It cannot come from a closed system. The value in this phone, not the monetary value, the value of the functions it brings to my life, was created by the vision of a person that was then implemented by a bunch of people. So you can always make the Karl Marx, my IQ is probably 55 type argument, no, really, he’s an idiot. Trust me. The reason why people think his book is hard to read is because they’re assuming he’s literate and he’s not. No, really, he’s not. Pay close attention to what he writes. You will notice very quickly, he’s not coherent. He’s not literate. He knows how to string pretty words together like Poucault and Derrida and a bunch of other idiots who are actually stupid. No, honest. They’re dumb. Okay. When you engage with these sorts of ideas, the value of the person who physically puts together the components of my phone is equal to or greater than the value of the one guy, because it’s only one guy. Ooh, there’s 50 people that can assemble this particular part of the phone, but there’s only one guy who can come up with the vision because you’re ignoring the vision. Why did Karl Marx ignore vision? Because he didn’t have a model for it. Because he doesn’t understand that what drives the world is spirit. Unless the need is there, unless the desire is there, unless the value is connected. No one builds the components for the stupid phone. And guess what else happens? Let’s suppose you have a vision. Let’s suppose that vision is of a battery that can store a billion watt hours of power and charges in 15 minutes. And let’s just assume that’s actually possible because actually I think it technically is, but that’s a different… I’m not going to get into the technology. Because right now I can’t. Man, my brain is just… So what if it took all of the resources that we had in a country the size of Czechoslovakia? So we’d have to take all the material in Czechoslovakia, process all of it in a much larger area, presumably, or many smaller areas spread out, in order to get that energy density into one place. And what if at the end of that we had a storage device that could store that much energy, but it took 10 times that amount of energy to build that storage device? That’s not good. That’s not good. We can invoke that spirit. Sure, we can. At what cost? And that’s the other problem of, I would say, naming, which again, Vandu Clay had a lovely live video released last Sunday on it. It was actually a really good video. First of all, it was like 38 minutes. I was like, a 38-minute Vandu Clay video? Well, I have to listen to this. I’m morally obligated by the laws of the universe. And it turned out to be one of his better videos, for sure. All his short videos are good, though. He only has like 10 of them, but they’re all good. Poor guy. We’ll get him down to 20 minutes someday, like mine. Mine tend to 25 minutes, right? The reason why this matters, this naming matters, is because you can name a spirit like BLM. You can do that. You can name a spirit like IDW. You can do that. You can try to invoke that spirit. Sure, you can. If it doesn’t match the emanation coming down from above, it doesn’t work. It blows up or it corrupts. And how quickly it does that is somewhat a function of time energy. And attention. On that note, we’ll take a drink. This is not liquid time energy and attention, by the way. But I am working on such a thing. Soon we will have liquid time energy and attention for you. When you put your time energy and attention in, it’ll last longer. You can do that one of two ways. You can say, I support BLM. I support, I’m a member or I’m a supporter of the IDW. You can support all those guys. You can do that. That’s one way to do it. The other way to do it. And this is my deep disagreement with Jordan Peterson’s ARC project. As you can say, I see the organization you guys have formed around your spirit. And I resist. I identify against that. And this gets into Manuel Post’s great point about do not identify against. And he would say, you cannot identify against. And I would correct him. No, you can. You just shouldn’t. Don’t do that. You can be evil, but I would prefer that you’re not. You can invoke World War III, but please don’t. We can do a lot of things. We can do a lot of damage. That’s why what we do matters. Are you putting your time, energy, and attention into a spirit that is for the good, the true, and the beautiful? And hopefully all three and not one of the three. Because one of the great problems is that we need to put our time, energy, and attention into something that is true, good, and beautiful. And not just more beauty, not just more truth. And the over reliance on truth is just rampant today. That’s the Gnosticism. Truth and knowledge are very slippery, and people confuse the two, and they slide into the knowledge is truth paradigm. And then you have to believe the science. That is technically correct. Don’t believe the freaking science. Science is not an agent to be believed, and it is not a thing to be trusted. Let me tell you what I trust. I trust Jesse, who’s going to come on the stream after he doesn’t spill his coffee, hopefully. I trust Sally Jo, because her art is beautiful. I made a short reading this little book that Sally Jo did. This book is awesome, by the way. I trust Manuel Post. I trust Anselman. I trust Ethan. Why? Because I see their actions, their fruit in the world. I intuit the spirit that they have around goodness, not necessarily around truth and beauty. Have you seen Ethan? He’s got this long hair. Oh, Ethan, please, please. Just reminds me of those stupid hippies I lived with. Oh, I love them all, but I could strangle all of them just as easily because, yeah, it was just hard. It’s that spirit towards the goodness. It’s that spirit that we intuit that matters. It matters in the naming because the spirit’s coming down from above. And there’s a deep confusion around this, too, that I figured out sort of recently, which is where some people just say, oh, well, it’s coming from above. Therefore, it’s heavenly. Therefore, it’s good. No, that’s a dangerous idea. That’s a dangerous idea. And that is, well, did you do this on purpose, Jesse? Question, can people participate in the spirit unknowingly? If so, does that create an egregore? I mean, you participate in spirit. The spirit of hunger is not always knowing to you. Sometimes you just pick up something to eat. You never think about it. And knowingly, I think what you mean is consciously and unconsciously. We, unknowingly is unconsciously. And I have a video on that, conscious versus the unconscious. And maybe that video needs some tweaking because maybe it wasn’t clear enough. But it happens to be right here. So there’s a we are Muppets. I’m a Muppet. You’re a Muppet. We’re all Muppets. We’re Muppets. So what that means is that we are being ruled by things outside of ourselves. Obviously, it has to be. We were born into this world. When we were born into this world, not only are there a bunch of constraints, but there are a bunch of drivers that are driving us within those constraints and sometimes butting up against those constraints. Sometimes we can understand some of that spirit, usually in others and almost never in ourselves. Do you know why you did that? Whatever it is. I had an app today. I was reading the Republic. I was having a great time trying to catch up on the book club that we’re doing with the Texas wisdom community, our first nice little wisdom community. If you haven’t checked out those videos, you should. In fact, I should post those. When we’re doing something like reading the Republic and then we suddenly get tired, what better way to think about that other than spirit? The spirit of tiredness came out. Look, I can go into it. You want to go into the scientific explanation? That’s no problem. What’s happening is my immune system is kicking off. I’m getting a cytokine storm. It’s flaring up my entire system. And then everything gets inflamed. And when I get inflammation, my brain goes, right? And that’s no good. I’m not a fan, obviously. And then I’m slow. And then I’m slow. And then I’m not quite with the stream the way I should be and things like that. Whoops. Why is this going on? Sorry. So what’s happening there is that I’m being driven by a spirit of tiredness. Whatever material cause you want to get to, it’s not relevant. There are lots of reasons. There are lots of material causes for the same end tiredness. I don’t understand that. I don’t. I don’t. There’s no way for me to make sense of that in any reasonable fashion. Right. It’s not something that I can sort of grab a hold of and say, aha. Right. That’s happening to me. Right. It’s happening to me. And for that matter, you know, when we’re doing the book club for the republic, which, you know, tomorrow is going to be our third discussion, we’re going to start in the book two, which, you know, I have yet to finish. So I’ve got to get some time between now or the end of this stream, which who knows how long that’s going to happen, and tomorrow morning to do that. When you engage in that, what’s driving you to engage in that? For me, it’s the spirit of the wisdom community. It’s the spirit of community. It’s the spirit of wisdom. That’s part of my project is wisdom. It’s my big project. My YouTube channel is specifically cultural cognitive grammar. Naming. Why do names stick? Why do names not stick? What do they matter? Why do they matter? What does it matter that we use the word modernity? And should we? No, we shouldn’t. Or meta-modern. I swear, if anybody is meta-modern, then I’m going to hunt them down and I’m just going to take them out because I can’t deal with it anymore. I just can’t. Just don’t use the word meta. Or modernity, for that matter. Paul VanderKlay, wherever you are. This is the problem. And look, Mills, I love you dearly. Pierre Grimes interprets the republic as an analysis of mind rather than political thought. Of course he does. Because he’s changing the frame because he’s postmodern. And this is a postmodern trick. I’m just going to change the frame, alter the meaning, and not explain to you that that’s what I’m doing to you. What’s the spirit of trying to interpret the republic as an analysis of the mind? Psychology is new. So yeah, I mean, I can take some stupid frame like psychology. And psychology is a stupid frame, by the way. And I can apply it to anything in the past. Or I can do the same with economics. Or I could do the same with politics. I could do the same with this cathedral model that Menchus Moldbug, the Curtis Yarvin uses. I could do that. I could cast everything that way. You know what I could do? I could say people in the past were religious. I could do that, too. That’s an error, by the way. The term religion is like 1530, something like that. It changed its use. We had the word, but we’re using it in a completely different way. The ancients didn’t think that way. That’s anachronistic. So yeah, you can always use anachronisms to recast the past and destroy historical grounding. And you can manipulate people by destroying their historical grounding. Look, you could write the history of the US as the history of slavery very easily. You’d be wrong, by the way, in every way, shape, and possible form. But you can do it. You can do whatever you want. And that’s where we get confused. We have a great deal of freedom, far too much for our own good. Far too much for our own good. And because we have a great deal of freedom and we’re not paying time, energy, and attention to our freedom and where we’re putting it, what ends up happening is we get possessed by spirits unconsciously. They move us. The spirit moves us. Facebook is not reaching out from my phone and saying, click on me. Click on me. It doesn’t do that. Look, I understand. You have Twitter and you can’t help yourself. I got addictions too, baby. I get it. I get, look, some retard went to the grocery store and bought Jordan almonds. I can’t not eat Jordan almonds. That’s not a possible configuration of reality. Especially not the pink ones, which are all that’s left. Because of course you eat these last. Otherwise the world ends, by the way. You’re welcome. I saved the world. No one, no one cared. I saved the world by saving all the pink ones for last. But also the most delicious because everybody knows that pink and red things are yummier than other things. I can’t. If I have candy in the house, it’s going to get eaten. It’s very hard for me not to eat it all at one sitting because I’m a glutton. I’m a glutton. And so I spend a lot of time, energy and attention on myself not being a glutton and like some things I can’t do. So there are there are certain types of food packaged in a certain way that I cannot buy because they’re packaged in a certain way. Right. So, for example, like spaghetti was always a problem for me. Oh, spaghetti. OK, well, you take half the spaghetti out of the box. Half a box of spaghetti is a lot of spaghetti. I would eat that one sitting like that. Was that good for me? Probably didn’t matter when I was younger. Totally not good for me now. Package size matters. You know, who bacon double cheeseburger. Oh, yeah, you had me a bacon. Is it good for me to eat bacon double cheeseburger? No. Do I go near the Wendy’s? No, I don’t go near the Wendy’s. Every once in a while I do. I’ve been at Wendy’s for months. You know, you have to keep yourself away from things sometimes because the spirit will get you. I get that. But you know what I don’t have a problem with? Because again, I have a fair amount of discipline. I don’t have a problem with social media. I don’t have a problem with social media. Social media doesn’t come after me. I have a great deal of self-discipline. I have a great deal of self-discipline. Less lately, unfortunately, but a great deal compared with most people. And that’s the problem. It’s a self-discipline problem. And how you manifest your self-discipline matters. It matters a lot. And that’s a good question, Ethan, by the way. Oh, I see what you’re saying. Look, you can say most people are unable to engage in social media responsibly and therefore they shouldn’t be on it. But nothing, you know, sure, that’s probably true. But that’s also true for me and Candy. What do you want to do? Do you want to pass a law that pleases us both? No Candy, no social media? That’s impractical, right? And so these solutions around these perceived problems like the problem in social media aren’t real solutions because you can’t implement them. They’re not reasonable to be implemented. All right. So now I will address your question, Mills, now that I know what you mean. Do you not think that it is there to be educed, right? Or drawn out from within? OK, no, it can’t be true. You can’t draw things out from within. Potential doesn’t exist inside you. It cannot definitionally exist inside you. That is a silly, silly way to think about the world. And this goes back to the thing that, again, I’m sort of pissed at myself. I’m like, why didn’t I see this? People will say things like the seed contains all the information to grow into a tree. No, it doesn’t. That’s a lie. You’re starting from a false axiom right then and there. That’s just wrong. Seeds don’t grow in space. Seeds can grow in space, but they don’t by default. If I take a seed, I shoot it into space. There isn’t going to be a tree. That’s not going to happen. Why? Because the information for the tree to grow from the seed is not there. What information, Mark? What are you talking about? Gravity. You need gravity because the roots need to know which way to go and the branches need to know which way to go. That’s the first thing you need. Well, it’s one of the things you need. You need sunlight. You need sunlight. You need a certain temperature. You need water. You need the nutrients in the ground for the roots. You need the atmosphere for the oxygen to help with the photosynthesis. Those are as much information as the stuff inside the seed. It’s all cooperation. It’s all coordination. The better question is, why the hell, given any of those circumstances, or sorry, all of those circumstances, does a tree appear? That’s the real question. It’s not reliable and consistent, by the way. What’s up with that? It’s not reliable and consistent, by the way. It’s not reliable and consistent. And you’re not going to get the same tree every time either. Well, that’s weird. If all the information is inside the seed, can you look inside the seed and tell how big the tree is going to be and how thick the bark is? You can’t. All of those things are actually determined by the external information, like how much wind it’s subject to, how much sun it gets, what the temperature is, how much water, and what year. That’s why tree rings work. You can use tree rings to date things. I forget the name of that. I don’t know why. It’s a really cool technology. Anyway, the tree rings are different thicknesses because of temperature and water changes in every year. That information didn’t come from the freaking seed. The fact that two things together in relation have potential doesn’t mean the potential comes from within. It means the opposite. It means the potential is coming from a third place. That’s what it means. Now, if you’d like to join me, since I went on a bit longer than I usually do, for which I will not apologize because it’s my stream and if you don’t like it, you don’t have to watch. But I would like you to engage. And I’m happy when you do watch. That’s the problem. We’re Muppets. What’s happening to us is a combination of emergence, that which comes from below, and emanation, that which comes down from above. It’s a combination of the material realm, the realm of physicality, and the ethereal realm, the realm of spirit. And what drives the physicality is the spirit. The world is made of three basic categories. I don’t want to call them categories, but I’m going to have to, and this is going to bother me for the rest of my life that I did this. Categories, right? There’s conscious, unconscious, and dead matter. Another great video on navigating patterns. Why is that important? It’s important because if we don’t cast the world that way, if we don’t understand those three basic aspects to everything, we end up stuck. We end up stuck in a terrible place. And that terrible place is usually Gnosticism. Right? Or it’s in a false binary or a false dichotomy. And that’s why it’s important to think about all three things. And that was my one sort of like niggly regret about the Thunder Bay Consciousness and Conscience event was they didn’t deal with those three things. They dealt with consciousness only. And then when you deal with consciousness only, you inevitably go, well, some things are more or less conscious, and therefore there must be a zero point of consciousness. Well, they don’t say that. And therefore, all the things we see are conscious. And now you’re a pantheist, just like that, because you’re talking about consciousness. And also, if we’re conscious, we’re also rational. But we’re not rational. We know we’re not rational. Come on. Oh, look up the Science on Rationality. Go ahead. I dare you. There’s white papers all over the place. Go look it up. Science on rationality is clear. We’re not rational creatures most of the time. We’re almost never rational about anything for any length of time. Most of our stuff is mimicry that we do through unconscious engagement. There’s nothing wrong with that. We get that engagement from the mimicry circuit of our brain, which is very powerful, very super powerful. It’s the most powerful force that we know of in terms of external affective behavior is mimicry. If all your friends are on social media, you’ll be on social media. All your friends drink, you’re more likely to drink. You know, it’s that. And it is a likelihood. It is a likelihood. Like some people can be around alcoholics all day long. I don’t drink. I don’t like to drink. I don’t know why anybody would engage in putting fiery water in their mouth because it burns. I understand it probably doesn’t burn you all, but it burns my mouth. Native North American in there somewhere. Horny Frenchman hunting beavers in Canada. What do you want me to do? So. We’re driven by these forces. They’re the spirit. Understanding that there’s dead matter that we can use to make this or a computer or all the components of your internet. Or a kid’s toy or an adult’s toy in this case, because. You can pry that over my cold dead hands, but I’m keeping it. I love my tank. I’ve loved my tank ever since I got it. If you don’t have the dead matter. Some of which unconsciously. Right. Has a valence to you. Why does that? Why do I have this? How many things do I have from when I was a kid? A handful. Most of my stuff thrown out by the way by my family. Wonderful people. What what drove me to keep this? I do have to open him up and put a new battery in because his eyes light up, which is kind of cool. So I got to get a battery point. This has got to be 15 years old at least. I didn’t get this when I was a kid. My mother gave this to me when I was an adult. Why do I have these things? That’s the spirit. The spirit likes it. The spirit likes it. And. And when I assume you’re talking about the tank, no. Army men were a big thing in the US for a long time and people buy plastic army men kits with tanks and little guys machine guns and green green army men. Look up green army men. You’ll see something better on the web. It’ll be there. And that’s the problem is that. The relationship of the spirit and the material, the dead matter. Is mediated by the unconscious. There’s a conscious intent behind the seed. Mills, we agree on that point, but the same context will not get you an oak tree from a kernel. That’s right. The material matters. But the spirit also matters. And the thing the materials embedded in matters. We’re back to three again. It’s not one. You can’t reduce things to one. It’s never going to work. You can’t reduce things to two. Then you get no false dichotomy. Do we have airfibers? Do we have airfix modeling kits? I don’t know. I have a couple modeling kits, model kits. I don’t do models because there’s a thing called patience. I’m told I don’t know anything about that. Sounds like a terrible hell to me. PC, a great PC game. Army men is based on the green army men, actually, Jesse. So it’s the same thing. The green army men are cool, actually. They were very cool. And that’s what we had. We had green army men. We didn’t have Xbox and whatever. We had green army men, damn it. And we liked it. And the spirit of the green army men was imbued by the person using the green army men. Nobody back then went, you know what the problem with society today is kids are playing with green army men. They’re forcing our children to have an imagination of what they’re doing. They’re forcing our children to have an imagination of death. You know, the children that got the green army men? Yeah, they didn’t start any wars. Huh. Weird inverse correlation, eh? Why? Material doesn’t start things. Material is manifest. What do you manifest with material? You can manifest social media. Do you know how social media companies have come and gone? Oh, social media forces you. Okay, what about all the ones that didn’t force us to do that because they’re out of business? You can go, hey, Mark, you know, some of them had bad business models. Sure, that’s true. You want to talk business? I could talk business. Am I 10? I think I’m involved in, I’ve been involved in 10 businesses. Most of them are mine. Not alone. Although the one I did alone is still surviving and all the others I think are crumbled. Just goes to show you don’t have people help you with things. No, that’s not true. Always pick the right people, though. When you’re dealing with these things, you have to understand that the things that we’ve created are not moving us. The fact that we created them is the thing that was moved towards. Facebook does not happen in a vacuum. The seed and the earth and the sun and the gravity and the water and the change in climate are all required for the tree. The seed may determine what kind of tree you get, but it does not determine much else. And not all seeds that you plant grow into trees. So not all seeds contain the right information in the right order to manifest tree. These are just little over reductions that we’ve come to rely on to make predictions. And then when we try to recast them and understand the world, we fail. And I know I talked about this on my other channel. I have a personal channel. It’s just my name, by the way. It’s not terribly interesting unless you’re into computers, I would say, although maybe it is. I don’t know. Leave comments on that channel, too. But I talked about this in a couple of places, right? The fundamental problem with the idea of something like AI. People go, well, AI maps the brain. And then we can use AI to understand how the brain works. Obviously, no. You are a lunatic. First of all, AI does not map the brain. I’m sorry. There’s almost zero correlation between AI models we use today, which were invented in the early 1980s. I have the code from NASA on my computer. I viewed it. I’m a software engineer. I looked at it. It’s wonderful code, by the way. NASA’s code is excellent. It used to be excellent. Now it sucks. NASA had the lowest bug rate ever in the history of software. It’s like 99.98 bug free or something stupid. It’s way below the curve. The model that we’re using is larger, but 0% more complex. It’s more complicated, but it’s not more complex. If you look at current COGSI and then you look at current AI, you’re going to go, wait a minute. If COGSI knows all this stuff about the brain and AI doesn’t have all this stuff, what’s going on? What’s going on is we’ve over reduced. We said, oh, AI, if I wanted to explain AI to a lay person, I would say, well, roughly speaking, there are these things called neurons in AI, and it mimics the neuron of the brain. It does at a ridiculously low resolution that is useless. And also, it doesn’t mimic memory in any reasonable way. Technical people can argue with that. I will destroy them. You’re just wrong. I’m sorry. There are some analogs, but it’s like the neuron thing. It certainly does not. There’s another guy on the Internet, by the way, who did a video, and I wish I knew where it was or when I saw it. I thought three weeks ago, probably. But who said this? He was in the AI video, and every once in a while, I’ll just groan. But I said, you know what? I’ll click on this one. He was dead on. He’s like, we’re not modeling neurons. What are you talking about? This isn’t what this looks like. And yeah, neurons don’t look like that. And that’s the problem. Jesse. Hello. You’re my friend. It’s good to see you. It’s good to see you. How’s the weekend? Apparently stressful. Well, no, there’s a little bit of a lot of good stuff this week. I have no idea why I got conked out this afternoon just before my stream, which is very inconvenient because I need my brain to do this. And my brain gets hit the hardest. So, you know. To navigate the patterns. It’s hard to do live pattern navigation when your brain is, well, you know, you need orientation. You need all the navigational skills of a sailor, which I have. But yeah, it’s a lot harder. And I did want to address this. So, Mills says, I’m very confused as to where we depart. Maybe I’m coming across as an essentialist. I’ll just listen. I don’t think you’re coming across as an essentialist. I think you’re just over-reducing, dude. Like, this is the problem. That’s the idea of essentialism. Well. The idea of essentialism is to over-reduce. That’s the idea of existentialism. And that’s the idea of every philosophy. We’re going to reduce this down to a set of categories that we prefer over other categories. Understanding is the fake, you would say. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, you would. Oh, well-spotted. I did watch The Little Sky. It was interesting. Great. It is a good movie in some ways. Oh, come on. It’s a great movie. It’s a good movie. What didn’t you like about it? Let’s start there. Well, look. I mean, look. I hate movies that do what I would call subversion. And so. And I figured it out. Thanks for watching this movie, in fact. Well, first of all, I didn’t know it was Cameron Crowe film. So I was like, ooh. I was going to mention that. But now it’s like now. Strike against Mark. Because Cameron Crowe does really good work. I love Cameron Crowe’s stuff. Almost famous. Anything William Hurton. Got to watch it. And I haven’t been. I just never go. I tell myself these things. I never go back because I don’t watch a lot of movies. Well, thank you. I don’t like these subversion of reality stuff. Like anything that has subversion of reality. I mean, except The Matrix, which is still one of my favorite movies. You know, whatever. We’re going to go into that. It’s going to be great. I don’t like that. That’s very dangerous. And I resist that because I’m a very grounded person. Right. And so I’m like, no, no, no. The ground of reality is definitely here. And I can show it to you six different ways to Sunday. And don’t subvert that. It’s super. You need that. You need that. And so that’s what I didn’t like about the movie. And then it took me a while to figure that out. What is it that you don’t like about this movie? It’s a Cameron Crowe film. It’s got some of your favorite people in it. Right. Like I love Tom Cruise. Great soundtrack. Great cinematography. Soundtracks will make you in the beginning. At the end, they go away with it. Yeah, it’s very well. See, that’s one of those things. It’s like, that’s directing. That’s like next level. It’s like it’s like Ex Machina. Everyone says, oh, it’s a good movie. I’m like, what’d you like about it? And Ex Machina is subversive. Yes. It, it, it, well, it doesn’t subvert reality. It just divides it into, well, two, three parts, but really just two. Right. So there’s the, and this is the thing people miss about Ex Machina. The thing that makes Ex Machina a fantastic film. The thing that puts it over the top is that all the scenes, except for like a handful that are in, in, in, in Waterfall, I think is the name of the house, right. All the scenes are either in full on nature with nothing around, but more nature, or they’re in full on basement, no windows, lava. There’s lights, yeah. It’s great. It’s like that. It’s like I saw that movie. I was entranced by it. I was like, ooh, look at the, and I noticed it right away. I was like, look at these scenes. Oh, this is great. Cause that’s my life. Right. I mean, not, not really. I don’t live that way. I’ve got my windows right here. The garden’s right there. Right. The roses come up right over there. You know, like on purpose. I got a pond. I look out the other window. There’s a pond. The Canadian geese are still there. They’re still there. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know why I scared them today, but you know, I had to read the Republic. Feed them some breadcrumbs. Sorry. You need some Greek philosophy today. Not that I’m obviously going to read it today. I was reading it for me. I got a book club. Damn it. To attend. It’s not my book club. I’ve got to attend this book club. Is it the Manuel’s book club? Well, no, Manuel’s right. It’s Danny’s book club, but Manuel’s facilitator. Oh, okay. Yeah. And he’s doing, he’s using all the tricks we learned from the awakening server to do facilitation. It’s wonderful by the way. But Manuel’s an excellent facilitator. So I’m very happy with his facilitation skills. Yes, he’s very wise. He’s got great tweets. Well, and we’ve cultivated that over, you know, three years. So it’s, you know, it’s hard, it’s hard earned experience on how to do this thing. How was your week, sir? What’s going on? I wanted to keep talking about vanilla sky. You subverted the conversation, Mark. Well, you’re the one who likes the virgin, buddy. How do you like it now? I didn’t know. No, no, no. I never said that. Come on. No ad-honnems yet. I wanted you to watch it, A, because there’s a lot of movies around the Matrix that have the same themes that try to explore it in different ways with different implications. That one in particular is very, very important to the Matrix. And that’s actually the ending. So the ending of the Matrix is Neo types in the code, apparently, and it triggers system failure. We don’t know what that means because it never happens for the rest of the films. But he types in, I haven’t even watched the film, re-watched the film yet, but I did remember that the other day. I was like, doesn’t he type in system failure? That’s an interesting little unexplored jam there in that film. But Neo says he’s going to free everyone. He never does. Other than Neo and Trinity, no one else gets saved from the Matrix. It’s a fact. You can look it up. To use Mark’s little rebate and phrase. Neo flies to the sky at the end of the film. Flies to the sky, right? He puts on the glasses. He becomes the agent of the Matrix now, like the supreme agent of the Matrix. He flies up. Vanilla Sky, Tom Cruise character, realizes he’s in some sort of a simulation. He doesn’t know if people are lying to him or not. There’s a system failure in his mind of making sense of reality. And what does he choose to do? He chooses to descend down. He jumps off the building. The reason he does that is because one person tells him this is the only way to get free of the simulation. You have to exit out some way. It’s almost complete yin-yang sort of subversion. That’s why that. I saw it right away with your selection of movies and my limited knowledge of roughly what they’re about. And I was like, aha, I see what he’s saying. So you’re identifying the shift that is roughly 15 years before a bunch of weird stuff happens in 2014, we’ll say. Yeah. Yeah. Where does Occupy Wall Street come from? Where does that? You’re right. Where does all this stuff come from? Right. Occupy Wall Street is a protest without a T-Los. Protoblm? Protoblm. Protest without a T-Los. Oh yeah. Well, BLM. So according to Tim Pool, I love Tim Pool, so I don’t know. He’s fine. He’s American. I don’t know. I’m Australian. But he says explicitly, oh no, no, no. BLM is run by former Occupy Wall Street people. That’s where I got that note. They took the skills and applied a T-Los and did the same trick again. Like, fair enough. Like, that’s what I would do if I were evil. I’d do the same thing. I just object to the evil part. I did want to address this. So I imagine you really dislike the movies Connected in New York then. I have heard of that movie. I don’t know how long ago it was. Well, I knew you were going to say that. It was already in my head long before I even brought this coming. It’s hard to understand. It loses its T-Los. It loses its T-Los at the end because it doesn’t have an end. Because the movie’s a preferential one and he’s creating the live drama that’s a live drama that will outlive himself. And that live drama creates another… What year is that? I think it’s 2015. I think it’s 2014, 2015. I think it’s right before the woke shift. I’ll use the word. I’ll pay the dollar. It’s the revival. Well, no, no. I think Carl Benjamin’s right. The woke shift is 2014. It’s Gamergate. Yeah, Gamergate. I mean, if you have not seen Saigon Avakad’s playlist on Gamergate, you need to watch that. Like, that was… If you want the nuclear weapon of prediction and prophecy, there it is. It’s the gem right there. I mean, why is the guy worth millions of dollars and able to start a business on his own money in the UK, one of the most expensive places in the world to start a business, much less a media business, most competitive and cutthroat? That’s because he made prophetic predictions about the world that we now live in and they were all correct. Like, this is a big deal, guys. It’s a really… Tim Poole did much the same thing. He tried to follow Benjamin. He tried to get kicked off of YouTube for the longest time. He literally… I hope YouTube doesn’t ban me for this, but I’m going to say it anyway. He did it almost all the time. It was freaking hysterical. I’m like, Tim, I know what you’re up to, dude. I get it. Status points, yeah. No, no. He was following a pattern. It wouldn’t have worked. It actually wouldn’t have worked. It would have backfired on him. But it did work. Because you can’t control an agri-gore. You can’t control an agri-gore. There you go. You can’t control an agri-gore. Right, right, right. Right. Benjamin was to some extent lucky, but also very skillful. He was in the right place at the right time with the right surfboard and the right surfing skills. And then he navigated that way of all the way onto the beach, untouched, and hero of the world from 2012 maybe on. He just was the right age, the right maturity, and he had the right potential. Because he’s a very bright guy. He makes really good arguments. I mean, they’re not fantastic, but they’re really good. And I think… What needs to be said. That’s what he’s good at saying. He was good at seeing the wave. He’s like, oh, here’s the wave. Like, here it is. Like, absolutely. He was not wrong. And this is the big wave. He saw the big wave. He’s like, this is the important wave. These other waves are… Who cares? And if you watch his stuff from back then in particular, you’ll see it. He’ll just talk about like, no, no, no. I see that. Nothing. Ignoring it now. Moving on. Yeah. He was… You can make an argument too that he propped up Peterson. You can make an argument for that. Oh, yeah. No, absolutely he did. Absolutely he did. But there’s no Peterson without that grounding. Yeah, without camp. Peterson was trying to get popular all along. He was on Mind Matters and CBC all the time. Ten years of media. And nobody cared. Everybody was like, whatever, he’s a smart guy. And guys in the US did that. Peterson was following the Philip Zimbardo model. Philip Zimbardo is the guy who did the Stanford Prison Experiment. Oh, yeah. Gosh. But Philip Zimbardo… This is why I don’t like psychology. I learned psychology from Philip Zimbardo doing free psychology courses back in the day on public broadcasting. Yeah. When they were recorded, I don’t think I watched them when they came out or anything, but I watched them on PBS. Because I lived in Boston. Public broadcasting, right? And so all of that, public broadcasting in the US has had a huge effect on what I understand. Especially on media. Like they don’t even… you don’t even know about the world. C-SPAN? You don’t understand that. C-SPAN. All that stuff. The whole ethos that came out of Boston, nobody understands. Look, I got my problems with that. It was one of the freeware zones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the stuff. Boston and Stockholm, they’re all like… What was the revolution called? The Free Software Movement. Open… And then there was Open… No, before that. Some website. Before Open Source. Yeah, okay, yeah. Before Open Source, it was the Free Software Foundation. Yeah. It was the FSF. Okay, Jesse. I know all the people that used to run the FSF. Oh, come on. I know you do. Yes. I actually know them. I’ve had dinner with Richard Stallman, who is quite a character. I don’t know if you remember me, but maybe a couple of them remember me. They’re pretty smart guys. There are people that know them that know me that know that I know them. I could appeal to that. Well, that’s your job. Yeah, yeah. I was foolish, man. They offered me work, and I didn’t take it. But I was young. I didn’t understand you could work two jobs at once. I didn’t know the world worked back then. Imagine. That’s your Muppet. I’m still a Muppet. I haven’t even unmuppeted yet. It’s like level off of Muppet. No, you cannot. Well, you know I’m starting a Muppet verification system on Twitter. This is my announcement. You can verify yourself on Twitter. All you have to do is put the Matrix text under a black bar. It says Muppet certified. There you go. Excellent. You’re certified on Twitter. Muppet certified. Self-certify as a Muppet today. Self-certified. Self-certified as a Muppet. Oh, okay. Well, here’s a good question. Anselm, does music act like an egregore? Like egregorian chant? Oh, a pun! I love it. The pun. That’s great. Yes. Well, I think you’re invoking something within a structure, right? So music creates a body, right? And then what comes into that body, right? Or maybe it’s part of the invocation of the spirit. And like, I don’t like the word egregore. I posted the link to the egregore video earlier. Egregore is a new spirit. But it’s, well, it can be helpful to talk to moronic secularists who should probably be burned at the stake. But it’s important to tell them you’re just talking about spirit, stopping a dumbass and revolting against religious language when it’s much, much better language to use because you’ll understand the world better. It’s harder because it’s enchanted, right? It’s much harder to understand in some sense because spirits aren’t good or bad, right? Spirits aren’t here or there, right? Which is difficult. But you need that difficulty, actually. That’s the issue. What would I say here? Disembodied spirits. Egregorian chant. Is there such a thing as egregorian chant? I love it. Egregorian chant is what he means. But yeah. No, egregorian chant. He wrote… I know, but that’s the pun. I love it. I love it. Well, it gets back to my Twitter, a little poll about what’s the purpose of music. And I can bring it up. That was a good poll. Thank you. Thank you. It actually got 400 views, which was very… 13 votes, but only 400 views. Worked that out. Statistic. But so the categories were the purpose of music is to express yourself. The purpose of music is to communicate to others. The purpose of music is to create harmonies. And the winning vote was the purpose of music is to resonate with tradition. Now, I probably was always leaning towards communicate to others, because I think it’s the simplest way of music as a language, right? Like code. Code is a language. Music and code have a lot in common. Same with writing. Applying a principle, a pattern, navigating that pattern to an interesting fact. Can you have an aggrorian chant? Yes, because your music can be… The resounding result is music. The best purpose of music is to resonate with tradition. If you have a musical style that’s not resonating with tradition, it will produce a spirit that’s disembodied from the telos that it should serve. Do you like that? Yeah. That sounds correct. Yeah. So, you have secular choirs, right? Like the secular gospel choirs. That’s one example of that pattern playing out. Where they’re not there to praise God, they’re just singing the song. But a spirit will resonate and a resonance will happen. I like to use the word resonance a lot. I think there is something to that. Bring back the fairies. In some aspects, the different levels of spiritual engagement or different phenomenon. There’s another word I’ve been trying to hammer through. Things that you find remarkable in the world. Things that when you notice a pattern, that is a phenomenon. In itself, as well as your observing phenomena in the world. That’s what I forgot, Jesse. I forgot to add phenomena into this in my rant. Which you did request, by the way, so I apologize. Yeah, I mean, what is phenomena? Well, phenomena is the experience of the person. The world is attention. Yes, it is. Jonathan Pigeot was correct. The world is attention. And so phenomena is the thing that we’re drawing from. And so, you know, we’re drawing from the world. We’re drawing from the world. We’re drawing from the world. We’re drawing from the world. We’re drawing from the world. We’re drawing from the world. We’re drawing from the world. And so phenomena is the thing that we’re drawn to through that process. Right? So there’s a process. Phenomena is the, we’ll say, our ability to be drawn towards. Right? It gives us a body to give our time, energy and attention towards. But it’s neutral fundamentally. Right? Because you know, the phenomena of serial killing. Well, and they do, like copycat crime is a thing. Well, what do you think copycat crime is? Oh, yeah. It’s a phenomena. Right? And people are like, oh, talk about it. That’s one there. Let’s do it. Yeah. Oh, this is dark. But at least the first serial killer had a T loss. The second ones are just copying back to your metaphor or mimicry. Yeah. Yeah. That’s yeah. Gosh, things can get dark fast, can’t they? Yeah. Well, and that’s why what you do matters. Everything you do matters. Like that’s the scary thing. Yeah. You’re doing things. There’s spirits either in there or that will get in there. And I think that’s usually what happens is, and I did a video on my personal channel there. It’s just my name. Right? They found you, dude. They’re coming to get you. On my personal channel, I did this whole thing around, you know, what people do when they engage with Netflix. Like their copycat. Oh, yeah. That was a great talk. Netflix does their wrong thing. It’s not a good thing. It’s a bad thing. It’s a bad thing. It’s a bad thing. It’s a bad thing. It’s a bad thing. It’s a bad thing. It’s a bad thing. It’s a bad thing. It’s a bad thing. Netflix does their wrong. And then they’re invoking a spirit. And that’s basically a destructive spirit upon their company. Disney streaming service is failing because they’re following Netflix without understanding the Netflix model. They’re not implementing the technical part of the Netflix model. And that’s part of the problem is that they think they’re following Netflix, but they’re actually not. And they’re not successful because they don’t understand the spirit of Netflix. And that spirit only works in that body of that type that Netflix created. And I can argue that it doesn’t work because Netflix is ultimately going to fail. And you can counter reasonably with, well, that’s because they made a mistake when they released the movie Cuties. And if you don’t think that’s true… Before that. It was before that. No. No. I’m saying that was the final, that was the final straw of my, oh my God. Maybe. Maybe. But you see the turn at that point. And Jim Poole talked, in fact, Jim Poole’s the one that convinced me no more Netflix. Because he said they could have made this movie and had they done this, this, and there were three things. I don’t remember what they are. I apologize for the brain problem today. But he pointed out the three things and he fixed them because Poole’s a really bright guy and he knows just enough. He doesn’t know filmmaking, but he knows just enough about how these things are done. And I was like, oh, this is deliberately pedophilia. I’m out. And then I quit. I quit. I told them why. I said, call me when you grow some morals. And I haven’t heard back from them. And so I assume they haven’t grown any morals. Yeah. Oh yeah. No, no. I’m you. You think of trolls, trolls got nothing. Trolls are nothing to me. I control the trolls. Certified troll. I was, yeah, I was angry. I was like, oh, is this the game we’re going to play? We’re going to cater to pedophiles. I don’t care. I care in some sense less that they put it out and in some sense more that they let pedophiles get off on making the film. Right. Like that’s a big enough deal for me. But also they did release the spirit and that’s not good. It’s a bad spirit that’s released into the world. That’s what’s worth talking about there. Because they at least courted our spirit. They invited the possibility. And also, you know, again, how metaphysical, how Christian or how religious do we want to get here? But when you court a spirit, you are inviting, you’re opening yourself up to participating in phenomena and that phenomena you don’t have control of because it’s not, it’s not it’s in an open system. It’s like to go back to what you said. There are two fundamental systems, circles and squares, open and closed. And so when you do something like Netflix did, you’re opening yourself up to possibilities which at least you haven’t aimed at. You don’t have, you know, people argue, yep, they wanted to do X or they didn’t want to do X. You don’t. It doesn’t matter. Right. Right. Well, I want to open yourself up to it. Yeah, I want to I want to address this. I gather they lost a lot of customer go with that. Glad you boycott it. Yeah. Answer. How long? Yeah. If you look at the numbers for the company, what happened is subscription growth at that point went negative in the US in that month of that release. That was the first time their subscription growth in the US had gone negative. It didn’t just stop. It went negative. So they lost a ton of customers. They made slightly more customers. I believe almost entirely in Russia, which is ironic. And that’s why until the Ukraine war, which is having all these knock on effects that nobody understands, they were they seemed to be doing OK. And then when they said, you know what we’re going to do, because they’re with the spirit of World War Three, right? Everybody’s now with the spirit of World War Three. We’re going to have a World War Three, whether you like it or not. We’re going to cause this war. They said and Netflix participated. They said we’re going to cut off all the Russian customers from Netflix as punishment for them participating in a war that we don’t agree with. And immediately their stock dies because they lose basically their only gross subscription base. Right. So they’re losing faster than they’re gaining now. And they instantly lose a huge number, like big number plus all the growth, which is people often get stuck like a trillion dollars. Yes. But is it going up or down? That actually matters. And that’s part of the spirit and phenomena. If you look at something like Cuties, you can say, oh, well, the phenomena is the movie. Fair enough. It is the movie. You can cast the spirit in two ways. Tim Poole cast the spirit as negative. He says, no, it’s openly pedophilia. And he doesn’t deal with the release of the movie so much as how it’s filmed. Fair enough. I might I might go further because I’m a bit of an extremist in that in that aspect. Right. I might say the real problem with Cuties is that it was released because regardless of how it’s filmed, the topics it’s dealing with are not topics that are reasonable for discussion in those age ranges. And therefore, you’re exposing children to something they’re not ready to handle on average. And a lot of this battle that we’re having is around the middle space. So the phenomena can be interpreted as, oh, no, no, we’re bringing awareness to the sexuality of children at a certain age. And that’s a good thing. Or you can look at the real spirit, which I think is just pedophilia. And it’s not entirely pedophilia. But the battleground seems to be around phenomena and where the line is for phenomena. Right. Like, like, do you send 12 year olds to beauty queen contests? Like, is that appropriate? Like this battle. And so that’s a left and a right issue if you wanted to put it in a stupid political frame that’s useless that you should never use. This is why political frame doesn’t work. Because you can’t divide that left and right. Because the left has its own problems with the equivalent of sexualizing children. And the right has the same problem. That’s because that frame is bad. It’s a stupid frame. Don’t use it. There are better frames. I go over this. I have videos on this. Check out Navigating Patterns. Lots of videos. They’re all good. I can tell you the best ones because he knows up to that point. He’s been keeping notes, right, Jesse? The best ones are the ones I haven’t watched yet. There you go. Now we need a list. Which ones haven’t you seen? Yeah. Yeah. I messaged you about that. The middle ground is always where the battle lies. Yeah. The middle ground is what caused the French Revolution. The French Revolution didn’t end. Your buddy Adam said that. And you like Adam, so you must believe him. I do like Adam a lot. Wish he was here. Well then you have to believe his framing and therefore. See? Look at that. Well, yeah. It’s like the… Okay. I’m not going to go there. Sorry. They’re on their fifth republic. Yes. I love it when he says that. Exactly. It’s like the… I’m not going to go there. Sorry. They’re on their fifth republic. Exactly. That’s one of his things. The other thing he says is Belgium… Republic hasn’t ended. It’s just another iteration. Yeah. Right. Version four, version five. It’s still the same software. Adam’s got these little things. Ethan’s got these little things. Manuel has a ton of them. Right? Like he’s got these little things that every time they… I’m just tickled to think. Like Belgium’s not a country. That’s another Adamism that I have. And he’ll die on that hill. He’ll die on that hill. And everybody coming on that hill will die with him. He’s not going anywhere on that. It’s hysterically funny. Yeah. He’s got all these little things. Yeah. If you’re on your fifth republic, it’s like really? Did the revolution end? Are you sure? Because it’s bad over there now. Holy crap. I read an article today briefly. I didn’t read the whole thing. I was like, oh boy. France is ripping itself apart at the scene. This isn’t good. Yeah. Did you see the video going around with the people? Did you see the video going around with the people? Did you see the video going around with the people eating in the restaurant? And in the window of the restaurant behind them is just flaming streets and people riding. And they just casually eat. It’s the easiest way to find that video. But yeah. This is fine meme. This is fine meme with the little dog creature. And he’s in the house. It’s all burning. He’s like, this is fine. That was special. Yeah. So we started that with the CNN anchor sitting there in front of a riot with a building literally on fire. Not small flames. Peaceful person. Ten foot flames. Right? Well, no, no. He’s basically saying it’s mostly peaceful. It’s like there’s a fire. You’re live on TV. There’s a ten foot flame behind you. There’s a building on fire. When you say peaceful, what are you even talking about? Are you a lunatic? Are you okay? I don’t know if you’ve noticed, Jesse. I’ve taken on Twitter to asking people if they’re okay when they say completely out of bound stuff. I just go, are you okay? Yeah, that’s actually great. That’s great. I do like the other thing I noticed this little group has started to do is every time you watch something, I’ve had to join on this. If you watch something or see a tweet, leave a little comment. Even if it can confirm and helps the other person to know that they’ve been heard, at least participating in things, that’s very, very helpful. That’s a very, very important community note, especially when everyone has their own little projects. Yeah. Well, you want to boost the signal to do things. Yes, yes. That’s it. That’s exactly it. Thank you for getting a little bigger than I did. Look. Yeah. Look. Sally Jo. Ken Confirmed. Ken Confirmed. Okay. Very important. Well, and that’s one of the things I’ve been saying. It’s something I’m not particularly good at, we’ll say, but I try to do is when somebody makes a good point, say that. Echo the point. And Ken Confirmed is an echoing of the point, right? But say, oh, that’s a good way to think about it, right? Or that’s a good framing. And if it’s not good framing, say, well, I see your frame, I understand it, and it might be useful, but, right? So you want to give people as much credit as you can, because that’s what we’re missing. We’re missing giving people credit. Look. Yes. I mean, obviously, I’ve been flamethrowing the Protestant for two weeks, maybe three weeks, pretty heavily lately. They need it. They have to forgive me. So, ha ha, you did it to yourself, suckers. Passivism doesn’t work. I’m going to show you. Anyway, but they had a point, right? Now I would argue. There’s a time for war. There’s a time for war. Yeah. Well, there is a time. Right. And that’s the problem. They’re all pastors. They don’t want to. Yeah, the Catholics are too, only the materialist ones. Oh, I was talking to Christina a couple of nights ago about now. I don’t know my American history. So let’s put it this way. When the Americans, when the British come and they come to America, the land of America, they encounter savages, traditionally speaking, Indians, Native Americans. It’s not called America at that point, right? At a certain point they do when they go to the Midwest. Right. They’re coming with their British traditions and customs. Am I wrong? No, not the Brits. How does this work? Colin Woodard, American nations. That’s all the Midwest is German, Scandinavians and something. Yeah. The Midwest is a very different part of the United States. Like, so like Ohio and most of Illinois is Yankee territory. It’s New England. It’s Puritan. Those are British. Okay. Upstate New York is not. Upstate New York, even though you have to go there to get there, is not. Okay. But the relationship with the Native is interesting. Yeah. Right. So the European people, let’s say it that way, come to the land of America with their customs of warfare. That’s why I want to use that word, savages. I know it’s not a great word these days. Good Lord, no. But they come with… Yeah. Yeah. You’re coming from civilized, civilization to uncivilization. There you go. Just saying the different thing. No, that’s going to reverse what you just said. But yeah. Well, but PC culture. No, no. It matters a lot. I’ll tell you why. I know. But so they come with the European customs of honor and tradition and warfare, and they meet a people that don’t have that tradition, right? Yes. Right. Okay. That’s what the point we’re trying to get to. They experience the unknown, people that are outside of this tradition of warfare and being fair. What happens when the British want to retake… Sorry. When the British want to retake America, the Americans now at that point can’t fight in that same way. They have to reincorporate that experience of savagery in order to fight America. They change the rules of dueling, essentially. Well, who does? The Brits or the… The Americans, because they don’t have the manpower to fight in that same way of tradition and honor. They have to go to the guerrilla warfare. I partially agree. See what I’m trying to map? It’s very dangerous, but it’s a very interesting thing. You have to understand. There’s a town in South Carolina on the border, something on the North Carolina border. It might as well be in Charlotte. It’s so close to Charlotte, because Charlotte’s 10 miles from the border. There’s a town called… Whoops. Right out of the brain. Fort Mill. If you go to Fort Mill, I’ve been there. You drive to Fort Mill, head to the convertible, top down. It’s a beautiful day. It’s like 90 degrees. It’s awesome. Anyway, you drive there, and they got a little train car to downtown, and they talk about founding this town. So how did Fort Mill, South Carolina come to be? Some guy, I forget his name, apologize to the guy’s family. He helped the Indians fight the other Indians, and so they gave him that land. When the settlers got here, there was a hell of a lot of war going on, and it was between tribes. And so you can make up all this stuff about when they held all these treaties. They did. But if they had treaties, that means they had land boundaries, because treaties don’t work without land boundaries. I hate to explain that to people, because it seems kind of obvious. And yet, you live in a world of stupid muppets, instead of a world of muppets who are humble and understand that they’re dumb. And don’t understand things and say dumb things. And say dumb things, because they’re possessed by spirits that they’re not paying attention to, but they’re time, energy, and attention. Yeah. So when we get here, so for example, Plymouth, we’ll just talk about Boston, because that’s what I know the best. The Indians welcome them in and give them Plymouth and say, here’s a village that was wiped out by smallpox. And we can blame Anselman and the Scots for that, because they were trading with the New World long before Columbus. There’s a lot of evidence that Columbus went to Scotland precisely to find out where the hell they were trading and getting stuff from, because, yeah, they had these secret trading routes nobody knew about. So what ends up happening is there’s a very synergistic relationship. And then there’s King Philip’s War, which I think is the name of the first American Indian War, which is per capita the deadliest war in North American history. Per capita, it’s deadlier than the Civil War. Nobody knows this. And who broke the treaties? Hint, not the white people. Oops. The whole narrative gets flipped on its head. The natives are actually the ones, and it’s not the natives, because people don’t understand this battle on this land in North America, where I live, had nothing to do with the colony at all. It was a much longer war that had been going on for years. The reason why it’s called King Philip’s War is because the people in the other country that were fighting England, that country would be France, were the ones stirring up the natives to get the colonies to revolt or to get wiped out. They didn’t care which, right? France has got people. They want to put people over here. They want to populate the region. France is, and if you read Colin Woodard’s American Native, Woodard goes over this in his book, right? The French attitude towards the natives is integration. I mean, it’s still a class system because France, right? They still suck. They’re still France. But it’s integration. They intermarry. They don’t really care. They invite them to the feasts, right? It’s very different from the British relationship. You know, I would say yes. The Revolutionary War, which I think actually should be called the Rebellion War or something because it was a rebellion, not a revolution. 1776, something like? Well, yeah. Starting point, finishing point doesn’t matter. Right, yeah, exactly. Finishing point is allegedly 1776 or something, right? Right. When that war starts, the North lost almost every battle. Those were all the big battles, people-wise. The South won almost all their battles, but they were much smaller battles, right? Much smaller groups of people. And yeah, you can look in Camden, South Carolina. I’m right outside of Camden. I’m not far at all from Camden, so I’ve been there a few times. They do reenactments and the Revolutionary War reenactments. They’re cool. That’s more my stuff. Civil War is too much of a mess. I can’t deal with it. But Revolutionary War stuff, I’m all into. But yeah, you know, you move down here, learn all this stuff. There’s another place called Brattonsville, which is up by Charlotte again. It’s in that corner of the state. They had a war up there. That’s what started the whole thing. So if you’ve seen, what is it, The Patriot with Mel Gibson, that movie, that’s the amalgamation of two or three characters. And it’s actually fairly historically accurate. If you wanted to compress the story into a movie, that is what you would do to be accurate historically to what happened. Basically, if you go to Bratton, I think it’s Brattonville. Is it Brattonburg? Something like that. Anyway, if you go there, they’ll talk about that. Like everything was fine until I think it’s Tarleton or something was the commander. Dave, one of the existing colonists, right? Because they all consider themselves British at this point, permission. And instead of doing anything reasonable, he was like, you know what? I want that farm. I’m going to take it from that guy. And so he used powers that Tarleton gave him, including troops, to steal land. And the minute the other farmers said, wait a minute, you just took Joe’s farm. What the hell’s wrong? No. Wait, the British are sanctioning this? All right, that’s it. We don’t want the British here anymore because down here, too, it’s all Scots-Irish. And the history of the Scots-Irish is interesting. Adam and I looked it up before. And it’s like, oh, wow, this is like a unique sort of set of people. They’re not Scottish. They’re not Irish. They’re kind of both. And yeah. So there’s all this weirdness. And this is very much rebel mountains. And these are people who were screwed over by the Brits before. So they’re already suspicious of the British government. And they flip, the South flips, as a result of Tarleton’s actions. And then we have a war. And then we win a war. But it’s not really a war. It’s just a battle within a larger war. Yeah. The natives were all… All the tussling between the natives and the population is actually France’s fault for real. Like overtly, it’s all France. None of it has anything to do with the natives or with the Brits that are colonizing here. The point we were trying to… We were discussing that. I was trying to, in my dyslexic manner, trying to get across to her is that change that we talked about last week between dueling with swords and dueling with guns. Dueling with guns is quite procedural. It’s the honor code. Dueling with swords is immediate. Death is not certain. But it’s obvious that it probably will happen. Swords is far more camaraderie with bullets is far more oppositional. You take different sides. You agree to meet at a certain time. You do it as an honor code in some ways. But with swords too, if I have a sword and you have a sword, you’ll lose by the way. Unless you took fencing, dude. Yeah, I’m pretty quick. I’m good with blades. Knives and swords are definitely… Definitely, I got skills. Freelon my Kijido. You can take damage that’s minor enough, like get cut across the arm, and realize that you can’t win without dying. Yeah, exactly what I was trying to say. That’s less likely with guns. And so that would be more the route I would take. It’s like, oh, there’s a way to determine who’s better without wiping each other out, which you can’t do with guns. And then the big thing about the South and the guns and the guerrilla warfare is guerrilla warfare tactics are very effective in the North. Okay. However, the forces are just too unbalanced. And so the North just doesn’t do well. And in fact, until Washington crosses the Delaware, actually, they don’t take full advantage. That was the first instance where they took full advantage. Down south, the guerrilla warfare tactics won all the battles. Why? Because they invented the Browning rifle. Yeah. And they knew they were outnumbered. Right. And so they’re outnumbered. And so they do things like, I forget the guy who is in the movie, The Patriot, and like what would the figure he’s based on? Is it green? I think he was from Rhode Island, too. I think it’s green. Anyway, he does stuff like, well, we’ll do a fake attack and then we’ll faint back into the woods. They’ll chase us into the woods and then we’ll have our sharpshooter shoot them all and stupid things like that. But the Browning rifle means they go, all right, well, we need to disable 50 men with one kill because we’re outnumbered. I mean, some of the numbers are really bad. None of them are 50 to 1, but some of them are like 20 to 1, 30 to 1. So they say, all right, well, if we kill the commander, they won’t know what to do. So he says, just target the commanders with the Browning rifles. That wasn’t possible. The Brits didn’t have anything that would shoot that far accurately or at all. And so it’s a dishonorable thing to do in that era of that’s what we’re trying to get to because that’s a Mongol thing to do. But who performed the dishonor? So I just told you. I’m just navigating the patterns. The Brits break the rule and start taking farms or allowing people to take farms. It doesn’t matter. Because remember, they’re all Brits. The South was zero, except for a couple of people in Charleston, South Carolina, as I’ve learned since. The South was all loyalists. They had absolutely no interest in this in being a rebellion. They had no interest until Charlton. And Charlton was making such bad mistakes with the native population, allowing bad people to do bad things that they were like, you have insulted our honor. Well, now we’re not in an honorable war. OK. Now, so they created their own monster there. You know, that’s the problem. Yeah, Ethan makes a good point. Going against the spirit. I know. They would do the first blood. Right. They wouldn’t. They wouldn’t often duel to the death. I mean, you could. But yeah, that’s what happened with bullets because death was far more certain with bullets because you can’t get a doctor to get a bullet. No, I don’t. I don’t think that’s true, Ethan. Or maybe it’s not the Browning rifle. But the first barrel rifle. There is a technological revolution that’s happening with weaponry. It’s always happened through America. The first barrel rifles that came out of the South United States, like in the world. And they did invent barrel rifles. Smith and Weston, et cetera. Right. And that did turn the war in the South completely. That was the thing that did it because they were horribly outnumbered and they just shot all the commanders. And it worked. It was interesting. Yeah, I was trying to get across this idea that sorting things out locally is often the best solution. Otherwise, you don’t sort out things locally that disembodied negative spirit in the community will grow. It will expand communities unrest that unrest in that community affects another community. And eventually you start to build up the larger and larger manifestations of unrest. So, yeah, it’s a long tangent. I’m not sure everyone’s going to follow that. It is. But there’s the phenomena and the spirit wrapped in there. So, yeah, it’s weird. It’s weird. You brought that up as a topic and then it just blew up everywhere with, you know, Vanderclay’s video un-naming is like that. You’ve got to name the spirit. Yeah, fair enough. You’ve got to name the spirit so you can talk about it. So you pay time, energy and attention to it. And what do you do with that? Because that is the problem. What do you do with that? Because that is the issue. I had a thought about you brought up surfing too. I had also thought about that this week. Yeah, surfing is interesting. I’ve done surfing before. I can’t. I’m not very good at it, which is weird because I have excellent balance. But for some reason, it requires many skills. You have to not learn to feed to get into the water. You have to learn to go under the wave, which is a full physical agility. And you have to know when to do it, how to do it, how to assess if you can, when to get out of the water. And you haven’t even surfed yet. You haven’t even gotten under the wave. Like you’re in the water and go, you know what, these waves are coming in. I can’t get in. But the hard part about surfing is the transition from being on the board, on your belly to standing up. And that’s a nearly impossible. Like if you think about it scientifically, you can’t do that. It’s impossible. And there’s a couple of methods. You can do it slowly or you can do the pop-up thing. Those are the two methods they try to teach you at surfing schools. I’ve been going to Hawaii every once in a while. I’ll probably never see Hawaii again the way my finances are. But yeah, that’s the thing is that you need those skills. And that transition is really hard. Like I’m fine if I’m on the board. And yeah, but getting from paddling out to up on the board at the right time when the wave’s coming by and maintaining. Because you’ve got to maintain being on the center of the board. Mediation. You’ve got to mediate all these different steps. The craft of its own. People don’t realize that, what that takes to participate in surfing. It’s just an under reduction of surfing around. It looks cool. He’s like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it’ll probably kill you if you’re not aware. Like honestly, come to Australia. You’ll die. We have riptides here that like kill people every year because they just don’t know what it means to get in the water. They don’t know how to read the room. Would be another way to say it. Read the ocean. You’re like, yeah, this is out of hand. Sally Jo’s quote is great. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Sally Jo guy created all men. And then 18, 19 Samuel. It’s from a movie, I think. Yeah. Well, and Anselman, right? Equally deadly. Exactly. Exactly. That’s true equality. Yeah. Everything else is not. In case you were confused. Well, look, I mean, I mean, that’s, you know, Nietzsche’s got a point, even though Nietzsche’s a retard. He’s got a point when he talks about will to power. It’s not wrong. It’s just dumb. You know, it’s like, OK, maybe. What is power? It’s time, energy and attention. That’s what it is. You know what? You know what? You know what else is power? Nothing. That’s it. You know, unless you’re Christian, you could say, oh, we’re good. It’s not interesting. We don’t have the control of that. Let’s not, you know, let’s not try to figure that one out. OK, like, let’s leave that alone. This is where people get confused. They want to they want to reduce and and get everything. It was materialism. That’s the crazy material. Well, and then he so Sally Jo claims that was Samuel called sales pitch. I can believe it. He was quite a character. It’s great branding. It is. It is sorting things out. That was another great, great reason. I’ll give you that. Yeah, sorting things out. Yeah, even sporting things out. That’s that’s that’s dueling with sword sorting things out. I’m not catching. All right. So you don’t want engagement then got it. Of course, I want engagement. What are you talking about? We were just talking about video. We were just talking about the most obvious manifestation of engagement for like 30 minutes there and the different levels and why that you can engage people. You can’t get more engaged with someone than dueling with them. I’m sorry. Maybe maybe jujitsu or maybe, you know, what’s the what’s the thing on the floor? The wrestling. I posted I posted a link. Come join us. We’re full on engagement. You can just come in and chat away. Usually we have a bunch of people here, but I guess they’re all out doing real things or something. Scared. We scared them away. The real world. I could be. It could be. But yeah, I mean, we encourage people to click on the link. Definitely. Definitely. And and chat with us. Yeah, it is. It is. It is. It is hard to know what people mean by engagement because everyone’s like now it’s like, did you get engagement on Twitter? It’s like, what do you mean? Like, can you get engaged? Like, is that is that engaging? Like, really? I don’t know. I don’t know. What’s the view count like? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What’s your engagement? Like, what’s your engagement on that video? It’s like, well, yeah, I had this I had this discussion with the Verveki Foundation at one point. So, you know, I was trying to work with them and that didn’t work out. I tried for a year. So, you know, it’s not it wasn’t a trivial effort. It was weekly meetings for a year. Yes. Foundation. And yeah, yeah, the John Verveki Foundation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, you talk about every once in a while, but not very often. They have new management now, I guess. They never talked to me anymore. But, you know, they were like, oh, you know, they’re too busy washing Socrates. They’re too busy destroying Socrates and lying about him. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, they they were they were at one point they were like, yeah, we want you to build community with us. It’s a great idea. You know, John was really into it. And, you know, what do you want to measure? And I’m like, well, how do you measure engagement? Because that’s what matters in the community is whether or not not how many people you have looking at you, but how many of you have participating with you is like, oh, OK, well, that’s participation. Well, participation online is easy to measure, but participation in person is hard to measure. Right. It can’t be measured easily. So that’s a problem. Is that actual Andre Jones from Australia? Am I going to have two Aussies? He’s got to come on camera, though, because sometimes people say they’re people and they’re not those people. Can I handle two Aussies at once on one stream? Gosh, no. I don’t know. Well, we’ll find out. We had to participate in democracy today. So, well, I did at the state level. Oh, you did? Yeah. My cam doesn’t work as me. Well, tell me something unique, Andre, that you know that I know that proves that it’s you. And then I will believe you and then we’ll happily talk to you. I just have to be extra cautious because people come on here with their little porn cams and stuff and they can impersonate people somehow. And yeah, I don’t I don’t like any of that. It’s also good to have a connection. Oh, yeah. Well, if if Churchium comes up, that would be that would be good, too. What do we got? Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, that’ll do it. Andre, it’s definitely Andre. There’s no question about that. Hey, man, how are you doing? Can’t hear you, Andre. Are you talking? Cass needs to speak. He’s left us with a camera. It’s OK. It’s a silver on. I would I’m sorry not to see your face. And you see an issue I’ve been having. Really be an issue. You guys are speaking very metaphorically, which I thought. And that’s why I was like, you don’t say to me, I was hearing like. certified confusing me a bit. So like direct sort of straight on like, hey, jump on the stream and talk things out like that’s what works for me. OK, well, I mean, that’s why I give the link. So pretty sure I understand like what you’re getting. What is what is confusing and one of us will try to to fix it up. Well, I turned the conversation into a whole thing metaphor about like this. Civil War, like, yeah, fighting with swords versus fighting with guns. Like I picked up like, OK, there’s something there, but it doesn’t matter for it. It is being a little bit too subtle. Swords versus guns. What would not be I don’t understand. I’m genuinely confused, man. It was an analogy for participation, the levels to which we participate in sort out conflicts. And we got historical. Yes, it’s an analogy. Well, it’s a historical example. An analogy. It’s like this change happened in the world. That’s not that’s not an analogy. An analogy would be that would be, you know, we’re dueling right now over the terminology. That would be an analogy. That would be an analogy. No, there were dueling with swords and then there’s dueling with guns and they actually work differently. And this all happened. That’s not analogical at all. That’s literal. Yeah. OK. I don’t know. Andrew, do you believe in ghosts? To my mind, like I don’t. No, I don’t personally believe in ghosts. I do believe in spirits. Locations. So that’s what maybe a classical definition of a ghost should be, is that spirit is embodied in a haunted house. The house has got a ghost in it. Yeah, I feel like there’s like a sense of a ghost in the house. Like in all the churches. Like when he went to the church, where there was this famous pastor that you visited, Mark. I can’t remember his name. The Billy Graham Library? Visited there. And were like overcome with wonder. Yes. Yeah, exactly. There’s a spirit in there that you beholden through. So I think those things cannot exist. In terms of ghosts, I’m not sure. OK. Yeah. Well, let me say a word, but first let me answer. But dueling is different than waging war, so it’s confused as revolutionary war being talked about in that regard. So I think what we were pointing to is the change in the limits of participation. And so when you change dueling from a sword on sword thing, where first blood is sufficient to determine a winner, to gun versus gun, the nature and the lines and the amount of space in between changes. There’s less space with guns. And so it’s harder to determine winners and losers. And determining winners and losers is more definite with guns than it is with swords. And in the same way, the nature of warfare changes in the Americas, as the result of the American rebellion, particularly in the South, where they won as the result of a change that, again, I fought back. I’m going to always fight back. No, you were justified in our rebellion. We didn’t change the rules. The Brits changed the rules because they were taking property away from people. And that’s still my justification. So there is this fundamental change. And that’s what we’re pointing to is there’s a change in the dueling. There’s a change up the chain at the fractal pattern at the level of war. And then this changes down the stack, too, at the level of personal and local interaction. And so we’re surfing that pattern. Maybe we’re doing a poor job, but that’s basically what I think Jesse’s after in terms of this particular topic. Not so much what spirit and how does it affect us. But when you talk about spirit, talk about it at all the fractal layers or some of the fractal layers, just because that’s what the live navigation is. It’s like the fractal layers to everything. So let’s kind of work out what these things mean, because when you flatten the world to politics, you’re not looking at the fractal layers. You’re just assuming everything’s government. It’s like, well, everything is in government. That’s silly. I’m also a muppet. I don’t know what I’m saying. I understand all that. Like I’m trying to get a phenomena. A phenomena. I was wondering how to get a muppet. And what do you say to me? To me, I don’t feel like I’m in a warfare. The like these explanations have confused me. I also realized that there is no hostility. I’m at a point of peace and resolution. So is perhaps the wording of like the like first blood or like who’s getting the first hit, which sort of has thrown me aside a bit. OK, but hopefully you can see there is a spirit of warfare around you, I mean, we had a U.S. official say that there should be no ceasefire. Like, other than the spirit of Mars, what do you attribute such a statement to? Like this guy’s, you know, you could say it’s not the spirit of Mars. He’s actually just channeling Lucifer at that point. How fair. I’d go with either explanation. You know what explanations I wouldn’t go with? I’d go with either explanation. I’d go with either explanation. I’d go with either explanation. You know what explanations I wouldn’t go with? Any others. There’s no other possible. I’m going to state this categorically. There’s no other possible explanation for making an evil statement like that, because that statement is evil, that a ceasefire is unacceptable. A ceasefire is the way of peace. And so there’s a spirit of warfare in the winds. And I would say, well, how does that manifest, you know, at the local level? The thing that everyone’s identifying is tribalism. Tribalism ends in war. It can’t end any other way. And so that’s the pattern that’s playing out. We’ll say all the fractal layers of reality, or hopefully not. Hopefully doesn’t play out any further. And that’s sort of what we’re pointing to, I think. And that’s what Jesse was on about, I think, when he brought up spirits and egregores and phenomena as the topic. And so you can look at the phenomena as the fruits. And some fruits, and this goes back to, you know, is emergence good, right? Some fruits are good and are the result of the spirit. And other fruits are the result of bad spirit, right? Or the result of pure emergence or pure chaos. And discerning those two things is very, very difficult. That’s why when Eric Weinstein labels the IDW the IDW, it doesn’t stick, because he’s wrong. They don’t actually have anything in common. The fact that they’re able to talk to each other is not a commonality. Like, we all have the ability to converse. Congratulations. Like, who cares? Like, that’s just not what’s important. So he was trying to identify something that isn’t really out there. And yeah, I want to just agree. Yes. Oops, sorry. I think lots of powerful people want to destroy Ukraine. Yeah, they do. Some of them want to build the digital utopia. They’ve said this publicly on Twitter with video. Either that or they want to start World War III. They’re the same ethos at some point, right? They’re not good people. We also tried to point to the fact that the spirit of friance has been in conflict with itself since the 18th century. Like, it’s in conflict. And end of the 17th century, as far as I’m aware of, is when dueling with the spirit of friance. When dueling is faded out. Right. So we’re witnessing a phenomenon, and that phenomena, that way of changing, resolving conflicts at the local level, then stacks up, masses up. And then you get to the brutality of World War I, entrenched warfare, prolonged war. Yeah. And then the machinery and technology changes to a horrific degree. But that’s something like the statement that when you can’t do many little battles, many little losses, those losses that you’re not having build up over time. Maybe 50 years even, maybe longer. But those conflicts are left unresolved and unaccepted. And then they come spilling out. And that’s why war happens. And I think actually that’s correct. Like, I just look at the world and I see evidence for it all throughout history. Like, every other movie is that phenomenon. These superheroes and action guys being the man of the moment, you could say. John Wick, the entire, you know, I love the John Wick movies. But that’s him. He’s not, you know, he’s not the army commander. That era of storytelling has ended. Now we’re in this superhero phenomenon. John Wick’s just a different version of it. But he’s still a superhero. He’s still Batman in some degree. He’s the individual hero. That’s the other thing. Yeah. Right. You look at something like The Odyssey, right, and you realize it’s not a story of one man. Oh, yeah. Like, there’s not one hero. There’s a bunch of heroes. And some of them get more heroic and some of them get less heroic. And that’s, you know, likely. Oh, Hanselman, I’ve heard some Christians reckoning it’s the devil trying to destroy as many people as possible in a short time. Of course it is. That’s what Ukraine is. But that’s… You can put it… You can say that at any time in history. And that would be true, though. That’s the problem with that statement. If you follow the Christian story. Hey, hey, you brought up phenomena. It’s the phenomena, which is the manifestation of that ethos. That’s the… Yeah, the spirit’s manifesting in a phenomena. I think that’s what Hanselman’s on about, but he realizes it. I don’t know. I mean, he’s right up your alley with phenomena. So you see these phenomena and then you have to derive the spirit. So you see the phenomena of Jordan Peterson having this, you know, debate with Sam Harris, which A, I would argue is not a debate, and B, Peterson didn’t bring his best. And I would have wiped the floor with that half-wit Harris. But, you know, you see that phenomena and you go, ah, that’s the intellectual dark web. First of all, it’s a bad name. There’s nothing dark about it. You’re trying to bring things to light, you muppet. This is why enlightenment is important, because there was a dark age. We’re trying to emerge from the dark ages, Harris Weinstein, you muppet. And so you try to name it, but it’s not a proper spirit. Right? And so you’re seeing something emerge. Absolutely something emerge. You’re trying to bring down the emanation, right, to give it the label. And you can’t do that because that’s not the thing that you can do. You’re supposed to match the two together. Right? And that’s the problem is he didn’t do that. Perhaps Peterson is more of a Christian than we understand, too. Because perhaps it was better to have Sam Harris slowly expose himself. Just let the guy, you know, I know this is a very weak thing to do, which is to let the person air out their grievances. I know, I know. I’m just saying that’s what’s happened or that’s a phenomena. That happened. Oh, yeah. I’m not saying it’s either way, but that’s the route most people have taken with that character. I agree. Let him talk it out because eventually he will say something outrageous like the many things he said in that interview. The dead babies in the basement. Yeah, I don’t even want to say it. If only COVID had killed more children, right? Yeah. It would sacrifice as many children as he needs to to be right about something. Didn’t he write a book about morality or something called Logic? I don’t know. He did. He wrote a couple. The end of faith in himself? Right. Well, and that’s the I mean, this is my argument from the beginning. When I first saw him back when he first got popular, I said he’s not capable of being a moral agent in the world. And people are like, what in the world are you talking about, Mark? And I’m like, you wait. He’s going to blow up. It may take a while, but he’s going to blow up because he thinks he has a framework and he clearly does not have that framework. Now, why I’m able to see these things and you all are blind, I got no idea. But maybe it’s the eye patch. Could it be the wheel? The wheel gives me the extra power. That’s what it is. So I can see these things. Maybe some Hawaiian shirts. It could be. Could be all but one of them actually came from Hawaii. Thank you very much. To detect which one wasn’t. Yeah, you’ll know right away if I ever wear it, which I almost never do. I wore it in one of my videos. It’s got a label on it. That’s how you know. It might have actually come from Hawaii. But I think ghosts exist. I think you can definitely say that certain spirits possess objects. It’s very hard to say if or when. I don’t like the framing of you know it when you see it because it’s not helpful. It doesn’t give people the ability to see it. It’s not helpful. I don’t like the framing of you know it when you see it because it’s not helpful. It doesn’t give people, it doesn’t give even yourself a way to understand the phenomena. You know it when you experience it. Encounter it. Yeah. Right. It’s not sight. The problem with sight is it’s very materialistic. Oh, I can see it. The things that you see and the things that I see have some concordance. But the experience, and if Andrew Clay did this talk, it was probably two years ago now, with this woman who grew up in basically a haunted house. And the stories she’s telling about the house are just like, what? And it’s like maybe ghosts are real. You know, there’s some pretty dramatic stories in there. And look, I mean these occultists, they can do things. There’s no question about it. Things happen. Are they entirely under their control? No. That’s very much. And then there’s a, what was the, there was a TV show. There was a TV series called The Order. I don’t know how many seasons there were because they stopped watching it at some point. But it was very interesting because it was all around witches and secret societies. And they would invoke things and then they would get out of control. And I think Manuel Post actually, who’s in the comments now, turned us on, turned me on to The Order. It was an interesting show. Shouldn’t Manuel be sleeping? Yeah, Manuel, why aren’t you asleep? You can do many things when talking to Sam. That doesn’t make them good. Even exposing evil doesn’t help if you end up giving it a platform to confuse people. Yeah, fair enough. I think the exposure, you know, I think you could have exposed Sam in a way that, and because I’ve done it with individuals, and maybe you can’t do it with groups. Fair enough. Like, I don’t know. But I think you can expose him in a way that people realize the difference and there’s a discernment that they can catch on to. And then they can go, oh, I see why he’s going to eventually not care how many children he has to sacrifice to be right. Because I think that’s a thing that you can actually do and embody. I mean, come on, Manuel. It’s nice to see you. I have a question. I have a question for you guys. Okay. Last year, like, I made a bunch of fuck-ups, I’ll be honest. But also, there was a long period where I felt I lost my faith. And also, from hearing Mark’s talk today, some sort of spirit has been under the scenes directing me. And he said, you can’t say it’s like only ad hoc in a way. Sorry, post hoc. Like, a lot of things have been going on. It’s not worth trying to expose him as we know. Can you pinpoint when it started? I’m supposed to grow in the process. Can you pinpoint where it started? Can you go, it was around about this time. Because that’s helpful. Not exactly, because from the feedback I’ve seen, there are some, like, transgressions I made where I could look at and go, okay, like, that’s something I know I exactly did wrong. And I had gone back to apologize for it. I’m honest with doing that with a lot of people. But there’s also, like, some people who came out of the woodwork and expressed grievances against me, who I didn’t even really know what they were doing. And it was sort of complaints about my personality, which I’m somewhat aware of, but I didn’t know they were that amplified. Like, I think that’s the thing. I think that’s the thing. I think that’s the thing. We never caught on, like, super well. When I hear him talk about me, it’s like, he’s very pretentious and like, oh, I didn’t know he disliked me that much. I think he was very pretentious. When I hear him talk about me, it’s like, he’s very pretentious and like, oh, I didn’t know he disliked me that much. So there’s, it could have been going on for, like, the whole time I was on Discord. It could have just been the last six months. I’ve had a few breakdowns publicly, which people know about. So that’s why I say six months, but my personality in Discord, like, I’ve always been sort of last year and a bit. Where in Australia are you? First year and a half, like, definitely very intellectually arrogant. Where in Australia are you? You’re Sydneyite, a Melvinite, a Queenslandite. Where are you? Where are you located? I’m in Melbourne. Okay. Okay. I thought so. I thought I heard the Melbourne thing. Melbourne. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There’s a Melbourne thing. There’s a spirit of Melbourne. There really is. There really is. And there was, you know, obviously the Dan Andrews thing. We don’t need to say anything more. That’s tough to hear. It’s rough to hear. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. This might not sound like a positive, but at least, like, you are aware of it because you can’t work on a problem until you’re aware of it. There’s a very bad saying that says, you know, for a wound to be healed, it first has to be seen. It’s a very cliche sort of statement, but it has a, at least a resonance of truth. If you don’t recognize you’re bleeding out, you know, you won’t be able to stop it. And it takes a long time to develop character, and it takes a very short time to destroy it. And so I hear that in what you’re saying, and I hear the challenges that I think a lot of us face is maybe older Millennials were Millennials. To develop character, you know, such an age of chaos. I’ll say it that way. What do you think you can do? Without this just turning into a therapy session, but what do you think you can do? Well, again, mending bridges. But one thing I also wanted to say is a lot of confusion has been around. So I was feeling from a lot of the Discord servers and communities that I wasn’t one to get rid of this guy. I was being called evil, like a Gnostic, a grue, or like all these terms. I’m like, I’m not, I don’t think I’m this thing. So I removed myself because to me it was clear that I wasn’t wanted. So removed from the communities because obviously like I was a person that was like, I’m like to like unwanted. But then somehow like people, when I would like look on YouTube, people complaining about like my inactivity. So it was, I was in this spot where like I can’t sort of go away from these people who don’t like me. But I can’t also engage with them because they were very hostile and they just say like, oh, this guy’s so terrible. So the last couple of months has been like confusion because like what do you, how do you engage with these people who were like, oh, he did this and that, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then there was this event. But then when you try and go away from that, they go, oh, no, come back because like we want to engage with you and like, why say like shame? But like it’s a form of like you have to get in this conflict. But to me, that conflict doesn’t resolve anything. It’s sort of like wanting of the fight. So it was a very like delicate and confusing. Is there any one of those people that, yeah, is it any one of those people that have welcomed a conversation? You could say it like that, that you believe might be in good faith. I believe many people are in good faith, but just perhaps because it’s important. It’s important that you believe that they’re in good faith. You don’t know if they actually are. Yeah. Because your intentionality matters. Part of that has been because. Because like there had been discussion on like with everybody else and like not one word from me. So what was going on on my side was like a question. So if people say his evil has done this, this like there’s nothing there to disprove that. And also, there have been a lot of other things going on. Plus, I have to apologize for some breakdowns I’ve had. I’ve laughed at a few people and that being lingering in the air. So it was just sort of snowballing a bit. So I think like mob outrage isn’t the right term to sort of feel what I’m saying there. And then when I go to it, I don’t think people necessarily are in bad faith. I think they’re in good faith because they’re expressing things like that. I would find that different. But I see where you’d go with that. I would find it very differently. I think it is hard to know. These online conversations are hard to navigate. I think you have to recognize that. And when you make mistakes, they’re very amplified. Like I made I won’t point out the mistake again, but I made a language mistake, which is the right word, but probably shouldn’t have said it online, even though it’s the right word, the right phrase. But it is very easy to make mistakes online and they will be amplified. And I am actually heptically aware of that with my new job. But we’ll come to that. We’ll come to that here if it ever comes. But so maybe that’s another thing to recognize, too, is that whatever mistakes you make online, they will be amplified. Like I can only talk in generalities right now to try and at least give you a sense of a frame to rebuild from. How about that? Because it seems like your frame is kind of been your frame and your ability to sense make within that frame has been torn apart. And so perhaps that’s the first project to undergo is to not even even think to sorry, bad English, to not necessarily engage with others, but just to rebuild the frame from which you perceive phenomena and reality. Because if you’re even I asked you, do you believe some people are in good faith here? You gave a vague answer. And so the intentionality of your engagement to them matters because you can’t control how these people will or won’t react to you. You won’t know if they get just tricky you into a conversation like you won’t know. You won’t know how the conversation is going to go because it could go well for the first half or you could get it into a grim grizz situation, which was completely silly of him. It starts with an apparent guise of good faith and it just completely goes territorial very quickly. And so like what was you know, like if it was always going to go in that way, why bother having the conversation? You could say it like that. Was ever aimed at the good. So that’s why your intentionality, you have to at least come in with an intentionality. I believe that this person is coming to this point. At least wanting to try to rebuild that connection or build the bridge or to be or to aim at the spirit of peace. Maybe it will say that your sex or your religion or your background or ethnicity and those sort of things do matter. I think you’ve mentioned or you’ve kind of gone over the fact that let’s just call it depression. And I’ve been through that. I’m actually very sympathetic to people who have gone through that. Even sympathetic might be a bad word there, but I’m I am just talking. I live here because that’s what we do. The way the way to the way forward, I would suggest, is to rebuild the frame from which you see reality. I think that’s all you can do sometimes. Say someone dies in your family, right? It’s going to completely change the way you see. Because you’ve you’ve you’ve experienced a disconnection. So having an allergy like that might help, like having something very stark. Okay, these people I were connected with and now I’ve had this torn apart and kind of witnessing it that way. Feel free to jump in, Mark. But I know. No, I think I think I think Jesse’s onto something right. Like one of the problems when we say engage with other people, right, we’re outsourcing our sanity. We have to see ourselves clearly. That’s why we outsource our sanity. One of the problems is that when we engage with other people, sometimes they’re wrong about us. Right. And then any given person is wrong about something about us. And so it’s like, oh, that’s not helpful. No one sees me clearly. Doesn’t matter how long they’ve known me. Right. Because they just don’t have access to your inner self. And so you need a frame to hold up your inner self first so that you can adjust it. Second. And a lot of people, for some reason, we’re getting secrets confused. And we’re like, oh, I can just self transform. You can’t self transform. That’s silly. You know, more self transform than the seed can turn into a tree in space. Like it’s not going to happen. And so you need to start with what’s my seed? What am I today? Right. This is Peterson’s past authoring. Where did I come from? And then the present authoring. What am I today? Right. And then the future often. What do I want to be in five years, three years? You know, whatever, whatever time frame, it doesn’t matter. But that means starting with where did I come from and where am I now? And I think those are important exercises to engage in because if you don’t do that, you will run into the problem of how do I measure change? How do I know if that change that I’m measuring is good? How do I take the criticism? Right. So, you know, Grim Grizz is a good example, right? I went in because I thought Grim Grizz was in good faith. And it turned out he, you know, he wasn’t. And then he admitted that later. So it was like, well, fair enough. But I never assumed that because why would I engage in conversation if I think the person’s not in good faith? And that’s the whole thing. Like Manuel and I found out somebody in particular who was actually on Jacob’s server too, Shleaf, was never in good faith. He admitted to us he’s never in good faith. He’s not capable of being in good faith because he uses models. Instead of talking to people. And he’s critical of everything everybody else says and never critical of his own ideas. Fair enough. Like you can do what you want. I don’t care. But if that’s your attitude, I’m not going to talk to you because I don’t want to be criticized every time I make a point and have you uncritical of your own points because then we’re not having a conversation. We’re having a tyranny of critique. And I’m not opposed to critique. But there’s such a thing as if all you’ve got is critique, we’re never going to make any progress. Time and place. An amount. Like it can’t be all critique. That’s the postmodern problem. The postmodern is all critique. Working. It’s important to get back to that. Yeah, go for it. I’ve been saying the past couple of months, one of the issues I’ve been having is a feeling that whether I am allowed to approach these people to try and reengage with them. Now that’s been causing a lot of confusion, which is like, I won’t use the word excommunication because that’s too strong. I don’t know if it’s like, do these people want me away and locked off? Or is it like, we’re pissed off, but if you come in the right spirit, right intention, good faith, and we hear you out, we can fix things. I know I’ve been banned from a few disco services that I just worked out yesterday. And when I made this, I had no idea. It doesn’t surprise me. But it also means I can’t approach some people I want to engage in the task of apologizing and making amends. So I feel like there are some people who don’t want me available for that engagement. I can only find out when I try. Yeah. That’s another difficult… Would it help you if I tell you a story? I’ll be trying really quick. So Peterson comes and talks here in Sydney. Not sure if you went to his talk in Melbourne. Just recently, I originally had planned for a good body of mine and his wife to come. And then me and my fiancee were going to meet them there through whatever circumstances. Both of the girls ditched out. So it became, hey, bring your other mate. Which is not always good because two new people meeting for the first time at a big event like that could go either way. And it did go either way. My friend didn’t want to hang out with the other two guys, et cetera, et cetera. It was a bit disagreeable from the start, mainly because I was late and I said I wouldn’t be late. Even though shit happens if you’re late and you miss the train. What can you do about it? It’s annoying and you apologize like, sorry, I was late, but whatever. People can get offended over the smallest things. First point, the smallest thing. If you say you’re going to do something and you don’t do it, they do have a right to be offended. But they do also have a responsibility to get over it quickly if the friendship has happened for X number of years. But that’s going to matter later for this quick story. So I’ve been with this friend for a while. We get out for Peterson. It was a great talk. Somewhat. Tammy was better than him. Tammy upstaged the man within 10 minutes. Go figure that. I’m trying to remove names. So my friend says, hey, these other guys are going to get their laptops, bags. How about we ditch them? Even though you said you would stay here in this spot until they come back to decide if we’re also going to hang, go get a beer somewhere. My friend turns to me and says, I know, essentially said, I know you just said to them you would stay here and wait for them to come back. But how about we ditch them and go find a place and. We are. I said, and I was trying to lightly. There’s other conversations happening with him at the time, which I can’t really go into. But that was the principle. I said I would do something, even if I wasn’t going to hang out with those guys later. I said I would stay here. I’m not going to betray that principle. He called me out and said, hey, about we ditched them. And I was like, I can’t do that. You’re both my friends. I always have to agree to them in person. Hey, I’m not going to go hang out with you guys. I’m going to go off with these other people. He got upset with that. Because at a certain point, he didn’t want to hear that what I had to say in these other conversations, he kept just shutting them down, shutting them down. It’s because I challenged him on the original assumption. No, I’m going to stay here until the other guys come back. And then I’ll decide who I’m going to hang with. I’m a man of my principle, my word. He challenges me on that. He challenges me on other parts of conversations. At a certain point, I lost my cool. And I turned to him and said, you don’t have to be here. You can go. He didn’t like that. He called me rude. He said I was insensitive. He called me a bunch of different things. He lost his cool. Mind you, I did lose my cool first. But you could see that I’m holding to a principle. And I said, hey, if you don’t want to participate in these conversations with me and you want to go against my principle of my word of staying here in this moment until things are agreed upon, then I’m telling you quite passionately, you can go. And he didn’t like that. Context. This happens after a Peterson event. Event. Event that’s meant to bring people together. Meant to, you know, build the community, whatever. Sorting yourself out. I called him on something that he needed to sort out. He left. He walked away after calling me a bunch of things. That friendship has been very, very hard to rebuild. I’ve tried multiple little bits. I’ve tried. He has never actually called me up and said, hey, sorry. I was wrong. For getting that emotional and angry and triggered at you. I was the one that had to call him two weeks later and say, hey, you haven’t paid. By the way, he never paid me for that ticket. I invited him along and I had to pay. Hey, pay me for the ticket, by the way. Like, like, even though we’ve had this friendship tiff or whatever it is at the moment, you still need to pay me for X thing because you were my guest and you were meant to pay. Nope. At no point in that initial first interaction did he apologize for saying the character actions that he called me out on. Even though I first called him out, I said sorry. I at least implied or said sorry for the tension that was there that night. I at least said I have initiated conversation. I’ve at least spoke to the tension. Now the balls in his court to come back and say sorry for saying those things. You know what? We can rebuild. He doesn’t do that in the conversation. It is now still my responsibility to to to in some sense, decide to be responsible for my own actions. Do I try and rebuild this connection? Do I try and test the waters again? Do I see if this person ever wants to meet again in person? Do I see if this person is actually capable of asking for my forgiveness? All these things interplay and they still working themselves out. I don’t know. There’s been multiple little text messages and things, but he’s never he’s never confessed that he has said things that were wrong about me and that he was in the wrong for reacting the way he did. Does that help you? That whole scenario. The result. Some things you have to test the waters of the friendship to see what will happen next. If you go, OK, if you don’t want to call me a couple days after said those things, is it possible to work these things out? Because some friendships sadly do fade. That’s I don’t I don’t know what to say to people. It’s not necessarily black people, but it’s I understand where you’re getting at. Well, I’ll initiate something here. I’ll initiate something here. Mark, I’m sorry for things I’ve transgressed you by. How I dragged you into the the vacay server thing. I know you’ve got your own projects and everything like that, but I’ve been meaning to clear the air with you particularly. There’s a start. I don’t I don’t know that you’ve really transgressed all that much. I don’t know if we’ve had runnings Jesse, but like. If there’s anything I’ve done to piss you off saying. I want to be known as someone taken at their word value and principles. But. Yeah, no, no worries, Andre. You know, I know we’ve had we’ve had our point you make. So yeah, no worries there. You’re always you’re always welcome back on any project you want to you want to participate on we get we still got stuff going on. Different stuff, but it’s still it’s still going on. So yeah. That’s one of the three also reasons I wanted to make amends with your markers because even like I felt quite hurt at your live stream, the nine hour one. Now, when all interpretation, whatever, like put that aside. When I sort of heard what I heard. Well, well, but even after that. I was like, you know what, like, if this is like, I still think Mark is a good guy because he believes in what he’s doing. And the project you’ve been doing with you are never getting patterned. It’s it’s intentional, it’s direct and you’re trying to help people with the admirable. So it’s where the we I still. Wanted to. As you say, point out good, good in the world. So I think. Good work. Well, thank you. Helping people. I don’t mean in life is very important. I don’t know what I said in the in the I’m assuming you’re talking about the was it eight hours and 44 minutes last year or whatever it was. That was my longest. I don’t know what I said in there that that that you took issue with, but I apologize if I transgressed because they’re alive and we’re just kind of navigating patterns. And it was more so the delivery. I won’t know if any if I have said anything dumb. It wasn’t so much what was said. Okay. I have to say this directly. It wasn’t what was exactly said. It was the way in which it was said, because to me, it came off directly as gas. Because a lot of what had been going on on like. People have a problem with me and they just like, Andre’s been doing this. Fair enough. Like, I know I’ve talked to. Oh, I have a friend who did this thing. Blah, blah, blah. Right. References to other names. But it’s like it’s something about me. And I know it was especially for someone who’s a very mentally ill like myself. You can see how those things don’t go together and net accountability for my own actions, of course. But it’s. Do you have any one locally to keep you accountable? It’s very hard to deal with. Do you have anyone locally to keep you accountable? For like a partner, a friend. I’ll be honest with all these things going on. Okay. Well, COVID’s done a lot of that. You kind of got to factor that in there. You’re dealing with the ramifications of a global shift in culture. Let’s put it, let’s say it that way. So that’s the thing to aim at. No, no, but you’ve got to witness the phenomenon. Last six months, things. Like you’re here talking about your personal challenges on the Internet. That’s a change in the cultural phenomena. And I thank you. I actually want to. I’ve never met you before, Andrew. I’m sorry, Andre. I don’t take this the full way, but I. I want to recognize the courage to which you’ve come on and tried to discuss this. Because it does take guts to get, you know what? I fucked up. Like, I don’t know how to. And you need to start somewhere and you’re not going to get it all right. It’s going to probably take you a lot longer than you realize to rebuild. And so that’s why I’m saying what’s now is to find. Some someone something to keep you accountable, even like I know it’s just really dumb. Pay for personal trainer. At the gym. It’s someone. I know that you’re contracting them, but it’s someone that’s like, you know what? If I don’t pay up, it’s it’s one hundred and four dollars or one hundred and forty dollars. Doesn’t matter how much they cost. You’re least accountable to someone locally for something. And you start there. Yeah. You got to rebuild the intimacy that was lost as a result of making those changes. You like the jobs exercising daily. Like, yeah, but having but having somebody else about a counter external accountability, it’s about a month and a half ago. What happened? Yeah. That’s true. I’m hoping to get as soon as I can. And so I’ve not worked in a long time, but that get a three day job. Don’t get a five day job. Get a three day job if you can afford it. Just get something for three days. Go work in a cafe. Literally just go serve people. I need a job. At least get you out there. Yeah. Yeah. You can get a cafe job. Trust me. There are plenty of cafes that that will just pay you. Yeah. But you just need to start somewhere. Even if it’s three days, you start somewhere and anyone can deliver a cappuccino and take someone’s order. Like, I know it’s a degrading job. And Peterson talks about this and his experience of working as a short order cook. You don’t probably believe don’t even know. I’ve got the job applications out there. Yeah, but just start somewhere. Especially in this country and in this environment. It could take you months to get something through. The only reason I’ve got my new role is because I basically stuck out with this current company and somehow navigated up the stream. Like the networking effect is quite real, particularly in this country. Sorry for everyone. It’s America. But I’m sure it’s essentially same in most Western countries. Like you’ve just got a network. And so often it’s just if you need a job, just take take the thing that’s around the corner. Honestly, like it’s going to do you more good. Yeah, but that’s that’s the rebuilding of intimacy. Right. So we want to be as the result of the global fake news virus scam. And now we have a problem. And now it’s like, OK, we’ve all lost the skill of being around strangers and getting along. We don’t have that skill anymore. It’s the perfect time to start World War Three. A perfect way to make World War Three happen. Right. You know, could be coincidence. Doesn’t really matter. The point is where there’s a phenomena that happened and that phenomena, in my opinion, is best understood as a loss of skills of intimacy. And now we don’t know how to be intimate. Right. I still I still have I have this clip. I got to post it. I think I have the clip done. Peugeot said on a Q&A on the awakening server a couple of years ago now, he said, like, basically. You go to church to do something you don’t want to necessarily do with people you don’t want to be with. I thought that was a brilliant description of the problem we have today. We don’t have the skill of doing something that we don’t want to do with people we don’t want to be around and getting it done anyway. We need that skill back. That’s a skill of deep intimacy. It requires intimacy. So what Jesse’s talking about is rebuilding that intimacy. Look, three days a week. It’s a start. That’s. Yeah, that’s true because we just try and remove ourselves from that position whenever possible. It’s like, oh, I don’t want to do that. There’s like an escape hatch. I’ll go through that. Right. And so the intimacy has gone even at this level. Because I think a lot when people hear intimacy, they say, no, it’s. There are several layers of intimacy. But. Yeah, that’s a good point. Like I said, I think as welfare. So not monthly job applications. Hopefully, open invite if you’re ever in Sydney, I’m quite. Seriously, if you’re ever in Sydney, hit me up. I definitely will. Why not? You got to start somewhere. But this is the thing. I very, very hard to make. I don’t have any personal. I’m not that my my my interviewing skills. Oh, gosh. But just recognize that they suck. Everyone sucks at interviews. Everyone is a puppet. Like, and this is the this is the thing we’re not recognizing, we’ll say, as a culture. I don’t necessarily like that frame. It’s close enough analog. We’ve lost interviewing skills on both sides. People do not interview. People did not interview before. Now they really don’t know how to run an interview because they lost the skill because they weren’t doing it. And intimacy, I cast as the quality of a relationship. Right. So there’s different qualities. Some are are are physically intimate. Right. Some are not. Right. Some are new friendships. They have a different quality of not less. Right. They don’t have less. It’s just a different type, a different quality. And that’s the problem. Like, you don’t have a way to assess and create and change the quality of relationships. Like, that’s a skill. And we’ve lost that skill. I do want to address this question. Benjamin Franklin. I don’t think it’s the actual Benjamin Franklin. But I’m up in the air. It could be. It could be a ghost. It could be a phenomena of a ghost. Just to give Jesse his due. Is it really an intimacy problem? Yes, it really is. Or is it a problem of failure to adapt and redefine the boundaries of intimacy with time? No, I think it’s a total lack of understanding of the concept of intimacy. Right. In other words. Oh, and he’s going to follow up. It’s like we are stuck. Our definitions are stuck in time. That is true. But the reality of our relationship with technology is moving forward. No, I don’t. I don’t think that’s correct. Look, intimacy is the quality of the relationships that you have. It’s the quality of the connections. And so when those change, for whatever reason, let’s say that you took in the propaganda, which is now, I can now say it’s propaganda. I didn’t notice it as propaganda at the time. Right. But now I can say saying socially social distancing is A, evil and B, propaganda and C, evil propaganda. Let’s call it all out. Physical distancing. Yes. Social distancing. No. And it was Greg Ellis, who’s an actor, by the way, who pointed that out to me. And he used to do it in the clubhouse. He’d jump on anybody that said that. And that’s important, right? Because saying social distance means don’t be intimate with people, ruin the quality of the connection you have with them, the social connection, because social is about the relationships you have with the people around you. So we’ve lost all that. And when we don’t use a skill, we lose it. We’ve lost the skill of talking to each other, of interviewing with each other, of being around people we don’t want to be around and getting stuff done anyway. Like sometimes people, you know, really, you know, really annoying. So one way I was annoying, right. So I pick Ethan up at the airport to go to Thunder Bay and I ask him, because I’m wicked smart, I ask him, I said, Ethan, do you want the top up or down? And Ethan’s got long hair. So he’s like, hey, yeah, I like convertibles, but like, nah, you know. And I failed to change the condition of the top. And so I had the top down and then I realized that at some point on the trip. And I’m like, Ethan, I got to apologize. I totally thought to put the top up. So, you know, as you requested, like I asked and I screwed up badly. Right. And I’m sure that was annoying to Ethan. I think I mentioned it once or twice later. But look, I mean, you know, he was super gracious, of course. He should have said like, dude, like, what the hell? And I would have pulled the car over on the highway and just done it. It only takes about 11 seconds. It’s convertible, very fast. Everything’s fast in that car. It’s great. But, you know, that ability to do that, you know, and be together, right, it’s a set of skills. Like you have to engender this, you know, patience in yourself and other people have to have patience as well. And they have to have these ways of interacting and a broad set of skills so that, you know, you can build a house together, even if you have political disagreements. I mean, one of the things I’ve been telling people is like, yeah, we just need to go fishing. Like, because when you go fishing with somebody, you have a common goal. Like, oh, we’re going to enjoy ourselves fishing and probably drink beer because that’s usually what fishing is for, drinking beer, not actually catching fish. But the act of doing that together means that you can have conversations within that structure, within that container. And because that container is primary and physical and apart from and comes first, right, you can have a political conversation without ragequitting. Because it’s hard to ragequit when you get your waders on and you’re throwing your, you know, you’re doing your fly fishing or whatever. It’s hard to do. And so and it’s not the it’s not the point. Like, it’s OK if Jesse and I disagree. Right. As long as we’re both going after the truth, the good and the beautiful. It doesn’t really matter. And we both know this and we do have a disagreement. Because Mark doesn’t believe in high culture. That’s because it doesn’t exist, you Muppet. Fishing. You’re thinking about fishing, right? So you’re working together. But that makes me think so. When people like say bricklayers are building a wall, like a blue collar workers, I find often the conversation is a lot more based in like intimacy, talking about like relationships and their wives. Dating and things like that. Really like this real topics, which I don’t think happens in academic circles or like white collar professions, unless it’s like, oh, so my wife did this thing that I’m not happy with. I have a problem with my intimacy. But the like, you work come together with someone to like build a wall and somehow you ground yourself together and can just discuss like, get the boots on the ground and work. Got to start local. I don’t think it’s universal, but like I’ve observed that quite a bit. You got to start with literally your neighbor. Find out who your neighbor is and be nice to them. You don’t have to make friends with them, but just be nice. Yeah. Go and give them some brand new mates. Perfect person. Perfect person to be nice to. That person is the ultimate. Unfortunately, they’re. That’s the hard part. You want them to get off the meth. You actually need to be nice to them. There’s other people that need you to vote. I guess if you can show grace to someone. You can show grace to someone. Who’s possessed by a spirit. Which manifests in a phenomenon called addiction. It’s hard. It’s very hard. It’s hard to put up with all these people and what’s being modeled for us more than anything are online interactions. Online interactions are necessarily centered around conversation and not centered around real participation in physical real world scenarios like sitting down and having a drink together or going to the bar or fishing or having a cookout or any of the things that they could be centered in in the real world that would give you a large enough container where you can have a drink together. That would give you a large enough container, a large enough frame so that you can discuss the less important things like politics. Right. Or the less important things like ghosts that crazy people like Jesse believe in, even though they’re not real, much like high culture. Same same problem. The ghosts of high culture. I could discuss like my favorite guys, Manuel Kant and Hegel. Dead philosophers, yeah sure. But book clubs are great. If you can find a book club, find something. Yeah, terrible German continental philosophers. Yeah. You’re much better reading Kierkegaard. If you’re going to be sad, you may as well read the ultimate sad guy. At least he was Christian. But, yeah. Yeah, but it’ll make you sad. Just realize that his job is to make you sad, to point out the clown world. Right. He was faced in social tyranny, if you want, depends on how you want to see it. But people around him were clowns. They were actively just disregarding tradition. And so he, in his Protestant ways, rebelled against that. Yeah. That’s my summary. It’s very loose. Everybody despairs, does have to bear, because they despair. Here you go, Andre. Andre, just wanted to pop in and say that I missed you. I’m so glad to see you here. You don’t need to worry about any of that stuff. We love you. And I always pray for you. I always watch your videos. I show my son you doing the DJing stuff, because he’s gotten into doing the Logic Pro. So thank you for those videos. They’re very helpful. Jesse, you’re amazing, by the way. I do not like movies, because movies are. My favorite, but I hate them. He hates Vanilla Sky, Jesse. Really? I watched the Spanish version before we came out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, with the same actress, Vanellope Cruz. Yeah, yeah, because there was this one song called The Lovers of the Art of Circle. That movie still kills me, man. The movie is too much for me. Yeah. Sometimes the good movies are the ones that, they’re like a rock and a shoe. You’re like, oh, just. It’s like, you just can’t, you can’t, you know. There’s another one. If you want a film to be a rock and a shoe, I mentioned this last week. That one will get to you, because the bad guy gets away with it. It gets away with everything. Most likely, yeah. Yeah, most likely I already watched it. I see you and I have the same taste of nihilism. Like we just want it. We want it so bad. You know you want it. You want to feel the deepness and the darkness of this. No, I don’t want to be a shoe arrest. You don’t want the hope at all, because there is hope in there, Jess. There is, because you know it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, well, but that brings it up. I mean, Andre kind of brought this up in a way, right? The Dead Poets Society. There’s a movie. There’s a movie about dead philosophers, right? To some extent. Yeah, Andre. Yeah. Yeah. See you, Andre. I’m glad you popped in, Andre. I hope you can pull up from here. Yeah, we’re here for you, man. We’re here for you when you need us. Sincerely. Yeah. Yeah, we’re still here. We haven’t gone anywhere. We’re always welcome back. Yeah, I’m glad he’s back. Welcome back. See, you’re participating already. Is it Macal? How do I pronounce? Michele. Michele. I didn’t get anything in the last minute. It’s not my real name, but it is. It’s good to say your name, Michele. I haven’t talked in a while. No, he misses you, you know? Yeah, he asks for you all the time. I was wondering if you could talk to him. Yeah, I can talk to him. I can talk to him. I can talk to him. I can talk to him. I can talk to him. I can talk to him. I can talk to him. I can talk to him. I was worried when you changed your name, and I was trying to talk to you originally when you changed your name, but I’m glad you’re here talking to us anyway. No, the reason I bring up Vanilla Sky is because Vanilla Sky is very important to understand that whole late 90s, early 2000s art house. The shift. Yeah, the shift. But you notice the Spanish people already had it. That’s what Mark was talking about. And then something I realized, one of my favorite songs, because I grew up listening to their music, I like a lot of poetic reading, and then I grew up in a culture that we were very oral. Reading and writing is something I learned more here in the US than I did in where I came from, the Dominican Republic. Right. But all we did was listen to music, and a lot of the music we listened to were a lot of that romantic ballads, and they were all about love and sacrificing yourself for love and the spirit of love. And it was beautiful. I just found it so hopeful. There was so much hope, like, yes, I’m going to… They used courtship as a way of replacing the good, the beautiful, the whole idea of the Trinity. They replaced it with falling in love materialistically with the other person. They will be the one that will bring me up from this death. And the way they wrote about it is beautiful. I think that’s one of the reasons why people find Don Quixote so appealing, because there is that there, but they’re missing the point of Don Quixote, and that’s what pisses me off. So a lot of the Spanish writers that are extremely popular, and people borrow a lot of that stuff, like poets, they all were inspired by Saint John of the Cross. Like, his influence in the Spanish writing, it’s everywhere. Yeah. In every song that people sing, it’s just really amazing. And they’re missing the point. Like, he’s a religious person. You’re removing why he wrote what he wrote. Like, you’re removing the true spirit. So it’s that spirit of rebellion that somehow got embedded there. Subversion. Subversion. Subversion. Yeah. That’s to be more accurate. Well, and it ends up being subversion. Like, the Protestants don’t think they’re being subversive, but they are. It’s the same thing. It ends up that way inevitably, because you’re not in line with the spirit. You’re trying to emulate the spirit and control it and make it do what you want. That’s occultism. And technically, right, that’s monasticism that leads into the occultism. And I think, too, I mean, I was going to try to make this point, but yeah, the brain is much better now. Look, one of the problems when we talk about spirits is that we’re not accounting for the fact that we’re trying to emulate the spirit of Netflix by looking materially at what we can see and then implementing that and expecting the same result, even though, as I point out in my video on my personal channel, nobody even knows what Netflix does. They keep saying Netflix works this way. And I’m like, well, the people at Netflix said they didn’t work that way, just to let you know. It’s the same thing. I made a similar point in another video on my personal channel. The whole idea of outsourcing was done by IBM. And IBM did it for six months, decided, now, this is a terrible idea, and then stopped doing it. And then everybody copied them. They’re like, why are you copying a failed idea? You know, and which is not to say we didn’t make it work later on. We kind of did. I’m still not a fan of outsourcing. But that started a revolution in tech in particular, but in other industries, too, where they were outsourcing things to other countries as a way of saving money. You know the word revolution. Yeah. Well, it was. It was a revolution. And some of it was good, but most of it was bad. In the early days of outsourcing, man, forget about it. It was just a disaster. I mean, one of the first Fortune 500 companies I worked for, they had me call the Indian Development Office to let them know their software was not getting in the release because they used their own tools. And we couldn’t, we didn’t have their tools. We couldn’t, they needed to use our tools and they didn’t. And so all the work that they did was getting thrown out. And you may say, oh, well, they got paid anyway. What do they care? No, no, they were very proud people. They really cared. They were really upset. They were really upset. They had, you know, it’s not quite an, it’s the same kind of honor culture as the Far East, but it is an honor culture over there in India. And they were quite upset that their software was not going to be in the release. They were proud to be in the release. So, you know, and people are very, that’s the thing too. Like the spirit was corrupted. We had the spirit of cooperation going with the Indian Development Office and they weren’t in the spirit. Like, you know, maybe it was an accident. It wasn’t, you know, on purpose or anything, but they weren’t able to participate in the spirit in the way they expected to. And that upset them. And, you know, when Disney does a streaming service, they expect to be able to participate in the spirit that Netflix has raised. And then they look at it and they go, oh, we know how this works. No, you don’t. No idea what they’re doing. And you’re not doing the same thing as they are. You’re not even close to doing the same thing as they are. They had a very clever technical solution to a very clever technical hurdle. And they had a very clever way of designing as a result of that. I can make the same, and maybe I’ll do this on my channel at some point, on my personal channel. People don’t know Google started with good hardware, not software. The software is irrelevant to Google. It’s actually the hardware that makes the company work entirely. It’s not the software. The first Google box is amazing. And they did clever things like they used car batteries instead of expensive UPS batteries for their battery backup system. Like, they did all kinds of really clever things with the hardware. And then when they wrote that, you know, they had the software running at the same time, the software was more efficient because of the hardware. You know, their competitors were running Windows servers, horribly inefficient, especially back in the day. They were running Linux, much more efficient. They developed their own technologies from scratch using the latest data science stuff. They weren’t running crappy databases and silly things like that because they knew it couldn’t do the work. And so they were able to collect more data because your algorithm is only as good as your data. When people complain about the algorithm, it pisses me off. I’m like, all right, you know nothing about algorithms, nothing. The algorithm with no data can’t do a thing. The data matters and how the data is preprocessed and fed to the algorithm matters. Right? And then the algorithm matters. It’s the third thing in the chain. And if people participate, like I’ve said this before, if Twitter’s bad, it’s because the people on Twitter are being bad. It’s not because Twitter makes people bad. If everybody posts nothing but smiley faces on Twitter, the algorithm will only give you smiley faces. I promise you. And maybe not exclusively because maybe they’ll add in ads or whatever. But if the inputs are smiley faces, the outputs will also be largely smiley faces. That’s just how everything works. It’s garbage in, garbage out. So you can’t blame the algorithm. You can’t blame the platform. You can’t blame the system. That doesn’t work. These systems started with our participation, with our time, energy, and attention. Right? And they are slaves to our time, energy, and attention. And our time, energy, and attention can become slaves to them, but only if we let it because it’s ours first. Yeah. Some materialism to think it’s just the algorithm, right? Yeah. That’s all materialism. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It’s just an algorithm. And I’m like, these are dumb arguments. The fact that you’ve made it, even though it’s not material, you have made it an idol. And you have enslaved yourself to it by saying, the Twitter algorithm shows me bad things in my feed. My feed is gorgeous. It’s not perfect, but it is gorgeous. I see beautiful pictures of beautiful places. I see really clever things from really clever people. And then there’s some Paul VanderKlay in there. Just a pro-Paul of it. And I have wonderful conversations on Twitter. Every once in a while, I see something and I go, oh my God, that’s terrible. But that’s rare. And I did that because I know how these algorithms work, because I can write algorithms. I’ve written many. Not that hard. I know how they work. And I’m read up. I read the Tenenbaum book and all that stuff. So, sorry. I’ve done my research. And I’ve built many algorithms over the years. I’m not saying it’s trivial, but it’s also not the most difficult thing in the world. The algorithm is beholden to the data you give it, though. And if you give it the right data, you’ll get it in my Facebook feeds. The same way my Facebook feeds are awesome. It’s full of jokes. It’s full of pretty things. It’s full of a little bit of social stuff, so I can monitor the zeitgeist on Facebook, because that’s a good thing to do. But by and large, I’ve curated it. I’m not a slave to the algorithm. The algorithm works for me on all these platforms. Except Instagram. Instagram is just basically ads now. Wait, let me make my point. People use Instagram like random. They’ve changed the nature of Instagram to be about ads. It’s personal ads, and then there’s the corporate ads. So the nature of Instagram, the phenomena of the Instagram, has shifted over time from just a medium of exchange of information, sharing pictures, into now personal branding. So it’s actually become an ad platform. People have that bad association behind them going, Instagram is just about pictures. No, the whole thing has shifted now, the whole function. And that’s what people were complaining about when Elon bought Twitter. They weren’t complaining about Elon buying Twitter. They were proactively complaining about Elon buying Twitter will change the nature of Twitter. And no wonder it has. Nature, the way people react, which is interactive. It’s a spirit. Go ahead, Andre. Quivocating. I was going to say… Just so you know, I don’t know what quivocating is. I’m going to rely on the spirit of the grid. Sorry, equivocate is something that’s like… No, you don’t have to give me the definition. Same or equal to, or similar to. What are you asking? Did you say that’s very similar to an algorithm being in Hollywood and Hollywood movies with materialism? So… The fact that like… We like… Movie. This thing… It’s the Hollywood algorithm that’s doing so. But in fact, it’s… There’s no Hollywood algorithm. It’s us, or consumers who want it. I’m saying it as an analogy. There’s in-group preferences. And those in-group preferences combine to a spirit. And that spirit makes itself manifest in different ways. So different people come together, right? Like a church, like a book club. They all have a preference. They all have a theology and emphasis that they’re trying to get out into the world. Right? That culminates in a spirit over time. Could take five minutes, could take five years. Right? There’s a time span of that spirit bubbling up, emanating. Sorry, emanation. It does happen when people meet together. An emphasis does come about. In some ways, it could be an argumentative emphasis. It doesn’t matter. Something will eventually come together when people come together. It’s bad English. Anyway, what I’m trying to say is those people interconnecting, right? Will materialize different things in the world. It’s only natural for them to do things. Like a movie is made of people, multiple people, multiple different teams of people, all networking to bring about the thing you see on the screen. Which is the spirit of all the people that interacted with the… Which is why people say, oh, the set design for that was good, but the rest of it’s bad. It’s like, well, the thing is not in a harmonious spirit. Because most likely you find out later, all those people weren’t interacting correctly. The studio wanted this, people wanted this. But you see that phenomena of people not working together, and it comes together in a material object. And then that’s what people project onto and say, oh, you see enough of these objects in a row. You say, oh, that’s woke. Okay, cool. You’re just calling a category of something. It’s actually a whole bunch of people down the bottom holding a behavior set. Categorizing Hollywood as woke is a materialist move. Rather than saying something like the spirit of Hollywood has tended towards wokeness. And that spirit is not woke, because woke isn’t a valid way of thinking about it. The spirit is one of chaos and destruction. Because all that stuff is… James Lindsay is right about this stuff. All that stuff is the same sort of gnosticism. But when the phenomena changes, the name has to change. Yes. And that’s what, you know, that’s what maybe people are not noticing anymore. Is that what you’re picking up, Andre? Like you’re picking up the changes or something like that? I was trying to draw comparisons, which was completely wrong. And Jesse was way more right. Well, but he’s trying to point that you see the change. For me, making myself actually understood something like wake. I’m saying what he said was… I didn’t see the change. He pointed it out to me. I think it’s a really good analysis. You notice when people started talking about COVID differently. Yeah. And also my dad’s about to head off for the night. It’s getting nice. It’s really hard to work with. I just want to thank you guys for letting me come on. Anytime, Andre. Good to see you. I hope you feel better soon. I’m glad we could sort of have this talk. Hey, do everything to protect your sleep. It’s good to see you guys too. Do everything to protect you. I’m glad we could sort of have this talk. Do everything to protect your sleep. It’s good to see you guys too. Do everything to protect your sleep. Get a good month’s sleep. Yeah. Everything. No coffee, no alcohol. Anything that would take… If you get a month of good sleep, you will feel differently about the world. I’ve been oversleeping. Right. Now it’s time to do… With depression, there’s that susceptibility to like… Where it’s really like being asleep is preferable. So, recognise the stage you’re in. And then what’s the next stage? Next stage is start… Try to find some way to participate. And find someone to help you participate. I’m not a therapist, but I’ve been through this. And I know what it’s like. I’m just trying to give you… Yeah, that’s wisdom. It’s not advice. You can completely not do anything I said. I haven’t met you yet in person. But there are steps. And they are quite fundamental. So just… No, no, no. I’ve been in therapy. And like the things you’re saying… I’m not saying I’ve heard it all before. But it’s advice that works. But it’s just… For some people it’s hard advice. Because you’ve got to do the thing. Right. It’s always hard to actually do the thing. I’m doing the thing as much as I can. It’s easy to talk about. Even if you’re in person. Yeah. I hope you guys have a really good day. And take care. Talk again. Take care, I love you. Yeah. This is the problem with the Australian Wallaby packet network. Sometimes there’s lag in those wallabies. They just don’t move. I don’t… I probably lack as well. You’re not on dial-up, are you? How is this possible? I want a mobile phone connection, essentially. No, no. You are DSL. There’s no way you do video on a dial-up connection. There’s no… Sorry, what I meant. What I interpret as dial-ups. No, no. You want to go into DSL technology? We can do a deep dive on that. I’ll give you all the tech… All the esoteric references. All the stuff, man. I have all the secret knowledge. DSL, I used to have a DSL line. My buddy used to sell DSL with the ISP that I work with him on. I know all about all that tech. Benjamin Franklin Benjamin Franklin is really struggling with this in-person thing. I find people who have a comfortable online life where they can just click off at a button don’t like the idea of being with people in person because it’s difficult. And they don’t have the skills anymore. And they’re like, well, it’s good enough that we play games together. And it’s like, well, no, it’s actually not. PJ was wrong about that. You can’t just play. You don’t know what you’re missing. You don’t… Look, I mean, I finally met Machal and it was amazing. You know, he drove a long way to get to me. And I met him and Rizzi and I had a wonderful time. And, you know, I mean, I’m not going to say it was totally different. Like, Machal is one of the most straightforward and honest people in the world easily. Right? He’s not any different online than he is in person, really. For better or for worse. Sometimes for worse. Because he’s very ADHD and distracted at times. But that’s the thing. Like, there’s a flavor to meeting somebody in person that you don’t have. And also there’s a cost. Like, if you both meet somewhere to go fishing, there’s a cost to that. I know I’ve told the story before, but one of the guys that we met on the Awakening server, he was moving up to, I think it was Colorado, from Florida, from Panhandle, Florida. And you know, kind of, well, I want to be with all my friends up there and this is where they say it is. And he had to move away from his parents, roughly speaking. And there had been some trauma in the friends group, right? And I drove three hours to meet him over in Athens, Georgia. Because that was as close as he was getting, roughly, to where I am. Because he was on the Panhandle so he was already actually west of me even though he was in Florida. He was just driving northwester. But he was driving through Athens. So I drove up there and he said, why did you do this? Because we were only together for like a couple hours, right? We walked through the Botanical Gardens in Athens, which is gorgeous, by the way, if you get out there. Beautiful Botanical Gardens. And then we had lunch. And that was it. It was two or three hours at max. And then there was another three hour drive back home for me. This was a six hour driving day for me. And he was like, why did you do this? And I’m like, because I thought it was important. You know, because I had only talked to him online. And he did a bunch of work for us, which was very generous of him. That’s the videos that we were using for meditation. A couple of them came from him and his editing. Excellent editor. I wish I could have kept him as an editor for my channel. Justin, if you’re out there, contact me. But that’s the thing. Meeting somebody in person, there’s no substitute for it online. There just isn’t. And there isn’t going to be. You get so much more information in person. The tone. You get some tone on the eye. Maybe body language. Get that in video. Yeah, kind of maybe. Right. But you can’t get that while you’re playing a video game because your attention is split between the video game and the person. When you’re fishing, you’re just like, you can watch the other person. You can be with them. And there’s a cost. If you don’t like them, you have to pack your stuff up, get in the car and drive away. And A, it’s very obvious. There’s no ambiguity that you were upset. And it’s expensive. And you wasted the trip out there if you didn’t get the full experience while you were there. You don’t have that cost. And cost is a very important signal. The cost of something is a very important signal. When people don’t… Tradeoff. There’s a tradeoff. But when people don’t realize about life, 90% of life is rote, boring BS. It’s the 10% that we’re doing the rote, boring BS for. I mean, a lot of this stuff… So, my uncle years ago, one of my crazy uncles, he grabbed a bullet. And he said, I’m going to take this bullet apart and show you something. And I was like, okay. And he said, you go in the other room in case this goes wrong. And I was like, what? You know, because there’s gunpowder in a bullet. And he took the bullet apart, took all the gunpowder out. And this took probably about 20 minutes or something. It was a long time. And I had to wait in the other room while he was doing it. And then when he got it all done, I think the effect lasted five seconds. Because it’s gunpowder. It burns very quickly. That’s why it’s in a bullet. But it was pretty. And it was really interesting. It’s 20 minutes, five seconds, and probably five minutes of cleanup. Because now you’ve got ashes and whatever it was that you were burning it in is burned. Now you’re going to wash it. And you know, you had to clean up after the mess you just made. Spending 20 minutes taking a bullet apart carefully so you don’t blow anything up. Five seconds. That’s all. Everything’s like that, though. Everything’s set up. You go and you set up fireworks. It could take days. They set up the Fourth of July fireworks in the Charles River. It takes a long time. They wire everything and they do all this work. And then it’s all done in like 15 minutes. It’s beautiful. It’s awesome. It’s amazing. It’s wonderful. It gives you a mystical experience. Right? But that’s the thing. And it doesn’t have to be fishing. The fact of being in person makes a big difference to your experience. To the phenomenological experience or the phenomena that you experience. The phenomena of playing Diablo IV or World of Tanks or World of Warcraft. Or whatever. Or better yet, Quick World, which I was really good at back in the day, with your friends, is different from being there in person. And look, I mean, we, before I left New England, we were doing Fridays. That was our thing. So every Friday we’d go out, usually to a fancy restaurant. We’d compete, see who would spend more money on dinner. I usually won because I was single. So, you know, and I made a lot of money. So no expenses, lots of money. So I’d usually be able to throw down the most cash. A couple times I lost. But, you know, these things happen. And we’d go to a very expensive restaurant and we’d just, we were brutal to each other, man. It was war. It was war. We were just like, you know, we were just knocking each other down, left, right. It was fun and lighthearted and there was a lot of laughter. But it was very much a one-upmanship game, right? It’s men. Men do the thing. No, I’m taller. No, I’m better. No, I can beat you up. No, I can, no. Anything we find to compete on, we’ll go with that. And it was a lot of fun. But there’s no substitute for that in playing Quake World together, which we also did, or World of Tanks, which we also did, right? Just to have no equivalent. Sitting down and having a meal with somebody is amazing. Even just going to the movies and watching a movie with them and then coming out talking about amazing, you know? And you just can’t substitute these things. It’s a very low barrier to entry with video games and it’s a very low barrier to exit. And barriers to entry and exit, this is the equality doctrine trying to destroy the world and flatten it. Right? And that’s bad. All of that is bad. You want things that are expensive because then you know people are serious. And this is, you know, this may seem unrelated. This goes back to the dueling. When you can get hurt in an argument, the nature of the argumentation changes. People are more polite in states with lots of gun ownership because there’s more at stake. This is well documented, by the way. This is all over the, and it’s always been there. Always. It was true from the minute that it happened and it’s still true and it will remain true forever. There’s a pattern you can rely on. When the stakes are high, even potentially and theoretically, not, well, he doesn’t have a gun, he might have one in his truck. You don’t know. You’re going to be more careful. Unconsciously. Rationalization. Rationalization doesn’t get you anywhere. You’re not rational. That ain’t happening. Give it up. Okay? And don’t worry about it. Almost everything you do is subconscious or unconscious. And it’s a function of risk. Read Nassim Taleb. Almost all of our decisions start with a risk calculation. That’s how they start. And the risk calculations are different online from in person. They’re different. What’s called intuition? Don’t even have to call it a risk calculation. No, no, no. Intuition is the method by which we make the risk calculation. But the risk calculation is there. Tradeoffs. And the difference is, your intuition online is terrible and it can’t be good because you’re lacking most communicative information. Most of our communication is nonverbal. Most of it. And not by a little bit either. It’s by a lot. It’s like 70 or 80% of communication is nonverbal. If you’re not in person with somebody, you’re losing most of the communication data. And you’re not understanding how to navigate that. And now you get worse and worse at those skills of being in person with somebody. And that’s why I said, like to Joe’s quote, it was very prescient, you go to church to do something that on any given day you might not want to do to be and to do that thing around people you might not want to be around. That is a skill that you need to have because you live in a world where you have to do things you don’t want to do and there’s a bunch of people you don’t want to be around. And you have to do those things with those people. And if you don’t have that skill, you’re in trouble. This is a silly question. Is real world and real death better than combat in a game? Yes, of course they are. They don’t both fill a need. It’s not a need. It’s a signal. It’s not a need. It’s a signal. I suppose there was not some kind of eugenic death taking place. I don’t know what eugenic death would be. That doesn’t make any sense in English. You need to word better. And that’s the problem. And that’s the problem. When it’s your actual life at stake, your risk calculus changes completely in the world. You can try to redeem video games, social video games in the world if you want, but it ain’t going to work. So I don’t suggest you try. Because you’re missing most of the information that we use to communicate. And the barrier to entry is low. And the barrier to exit is low. And the stakes are low. Because you don’t have to be around those people ever. You don’t even ever have to meet those people. The stakes are very low. And that’s why online communities tend to be more angry and be more mean. Because the stakes are low. And in a low stakes game, when the stakes are low, it pays to be the biggest, baddest, meanest son of a bitch tyrant on the planet. That is true. But that is a function of a low stakes game. And so you have two options. Don’t have low stakes games, which really isn’t an option for you. Don’t play low stakes games. That is an option for you. You don’t have to engage in social media. You don’t have to play video games. You can get out in the world and do things with people. Right? And you can criticize me all day long for spending way too much time online. Fair enough. I have my reasons. So if you want to get into the, why do you do this game, you’ll be crying by the end, because it’s not going to end well for you. I have my reasons. But it’s very consequential what you do and what’s at stake. And what you’ve put in. Like when you invest work in something, everything changes. Right? So, you know, if you’ve spent a year working with the Viveki Foundation and at the end, they just couldn’t do anything at all. Right? And so, you know, if you’re not doing what they promised, much less, you know, give you what they promised, that hurts. Right? If you have two meetings with the Viveki Foundation and they vanish, it’s like, ah, whatever, I had two meetings. But when it’s like 50 meetings, it’s a whole different thing. And that’s the problem. You can’t equate these things and measure them. You can’t say, well, what’s the difference between the two? And you have to make a decision. You have to make a decision. But it’s not the same. It’s different points for different people. And that’s the change that you’re sensing through your intuition. And that quality, you know, if you don’t write it right, if you don’t notice the change in the quality, and I’m sure Michelle is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, because we’re going through a similar sort of thing. The quality of the relationship can be changed. And so you’re kind of running the same old program like, oh yeah, we do it this way. And this is right. And then all of a sudden there’s a change in the quality you don’t notice. And now all of a sudden there’s just arguments all the time. That happens all the time in different types of relationships. It happens in corporations. I mean, that’s part of corruption. Right. Corruption is we’re out of, we’re out of the spirit. And so now the system isn’t serving the spirit, but the system is still there and you’re still serving the system instead of serving the spirit. But the solution to that is not to bring down the system, it’s to get people back in who can sense the spirit and change the system back to serving the spirit. That’s the only solution. That’s why prostitutesism is dangerous, because if you add valid critique to the church and all the valid critiquers of the church leave, the church gets worse, not better. It’s really not a difficult thing to understand, ultimately. It’s hard, because then you have to submit and you have to sacrifice and you have to be tyrannized by the church to fix it, but also, yeah, that’s how everything works in life. If you want to be married, you’re going to have disagreements with your spouse. That’s going to happen. There’s no way around that. That’s going to happen. But you have to look at it and say, well, but the advantages are great enough that these little inconveniences, because they are a little, with respect to the advantages, they’re not little with respect to your personal pride or your life or your life alone or your individualistic projection of something that doesn’t exist because you’ll never be an individual. Yeah, right. Sure. But when it’s in the frame of the relationship, Chapter 10, Beyond Order, this is all in there, by the way, when it’s in the frame of your relationship, now all of a sudden you have something higher that you’re both submitted to. You’re not submitted to each other. You’re submitted to the higher thing. That makes it bearable because people are going to make mistakes and you can’t go, I was submitted that, therefore I’m going to get divorced. It’s like what? No, people make mistakes. Like the purpose of having the container is so that the mistakes don’t matter. That’s what gives you the ability to make mistakes is that intimate connection for something higher outside of yourself and outside of the other person. That’s the only way to go. There’s a lot there. There’s a lot there. Yeah, I’m allergic to people who use the identifying against all the time. Like you could be skeptical if you are interested in helping make a cathedral. Right? But don’t be skeptical in the way that the cathedral is not going to be built. And that has always been my I was born with that curse where I see people just constantly identifying against and always criticizing the person who’s trying to do something. And sometimes they do it really well like Mark says and the person doesn’t want to do anything. And then five years down the road they haven’t done anything and their life is miserable. Why? Because someone just was showing them a different way that doesn’t build anything. Right. Right. Or they’re not willing to put the skin in the game. Like yeah, yes, there may be multiple ways that I can solve this problem. There may be multiple ways that I may be able to talk to my son or my wife or my boss or deal with my own emotions. But if you’re going to give me a seventh way or a tenth way, then come with me. Don’t just drop it there. And a lot of times that’s what I I always see people doing. Oh, this is new knowledge. Did you hear about this? Did you hear about this new word? And did you hear about this new tone? And this new phrasing? And then they just drop it there. And yet it’s okay. I’m not, you know, Mark says it all the time. Yeah, you could do that. But are you going to be responsible for picking the pieces up? No. No, you’re not. That’s what basically was happening. Well, and you look, you know, you can go look, Elon Musk is really smart, but I’m really smart too. Fair enough. Maybe you are. Maybe you’re smart enough. That’s one of my favorite ones. It’s fine. It’s fine. I’m like, I’m fine. Look, I will grant you, maybe you’re as smart as Elon Musk, maybe you’re ten times smarter than Elon Musk. That’s fine. And I’ve said this to many, many people. Have you slept under your desk at work? Because if you haven’t, you can go to hell. Because it’s not the intelligence that gets you there. And all the intelligence of the world is no substitute for sleeping under your desk at work. And most of these people have never worked more than 40 hours in a week. I’m like, well, if you haven’t worked more than 40 hours in a week, ever, what makes you think you should have the money that Elon Musk has? What are you, high? Come on. You only have to work like 10% more than the average person to earn like 50% more than the average person. Right. And people don’t get that unless you’re in Europe where you can’t, by the way. Well, yeah. Well, but I mean, that matters. So there was a famous investor, I don’t know if he’s still alive, Jim Rogers is his name. And he was saying the whole time, he was saying like, oh, China’s going to eat our lunch. China’s going to eat America’s lunch. He was heavily invested in China, heavily invested in China. I don’t think he made anywhere near as much money as he could have invested in US stocks. But whatever. He was famous for coming on CNBC and Bloomberg and all these places and just pushing China, China, China. They’re hungry. They’re hungry. They’re hungry. They don’t have a government that enables what our government enables. They had the free trade zones. I get that. But they don’t have the other pieces, the other aspects of liberty that really free up anybody in the country to build. And so the fact that they’re hungry doesn’t help because they’re constrained by their government in a way that means they can’t compete. And that’s the problem. Is that they can’t compete because of the constraint they have of their government. You can’t look at one piece of the puzzle and say, oh, it’s the American hunger that makes America work. No, it isn’t. That’s a lie. That’s a lie. You can take hungry people in Germany who really want to succeed and they can’t because they throw you out of the building at five o’clock when they close the building. They literally will not let you stay at work past whatever hours it is. It’s eight hours a day, seven hours. I have no idea. They will not let you work. You have to leave even if you want to work. You’re not allowed to. It’s insane that constrains your people. So now your people can be as hungry as you are. Everything’s connected. It’s not one piece. And so Benjamin Franklin, I’ve been thinking about whether video games are more equal or flat. They’re flat. They’re very flat. They’re simulations of a small part of the real world. I’m inclined to agree in certain ways, but also there’s selection out. The selected out, self-select out. They just don’t play. Yeah, but the playing has nothing to do with it. Benjamin Franklin, you cannot rebel against a narrative video game. You have to be within the narrative of that video game. You cannot say, hey, I’m going to be the bad guy now in this narrative. It’s like, no. It’s a narrative video game. It’s locked. You might be able to explore different parts of the map, but the map is not the territory. You cannot rebel against the narrative. And you don’t know that because postmodernism removes the framing question from your mind. So we’ve all lost the ability to question the frame. Like, who am I to question Fauci? Oh, well, I read the damn papers. No, didn’t read the papers. Fauci. So I’m me. That’s who I am because I’m the guy who read the papers. Meanwhile, everybody has to play the real world to a minimum level to keep their body alive. So what? They’re not actually playing, right? Death is a selection. Death is the ultimate selection process. But this is the problem. You can’t equate video games with the real world because it is a map for territory error. It’s a very common one. And also, you’ve been stuck in a postmodern lie that framing isn’t a real thing or doesn’t matter or whatever. And it doesn’t. It matters. It matters a lot. Again, you can take the hunger of the U.S. and you can take the economic freedom zones of the U.S. and you can put them in China and China doesn’t become the U.S. Because that’s not enough pieces and the spirit’s not there. And the government constraints won’t allow that spirit of entrepreneurship to emerge. They won’t allow it. It will not manifest because it is constrained by the government. It just is what it is. And you can look at small exceptions in China and say, aha, this company and that company, whatever. But it’s not like here, anybody from any walk of life, because we have the most economic mobility in the world. By far. There isn’t even a number two in the United States for economic mobility. People come here routinely with nothing and become millionaires in a year. And if you live here and you didn’t do that, shame on you. You know, like, that’s your own fault. People come here without even speaking the language and they become millionaires in a year. So it’s not a language problem. It’s not a money problem. It’s not a growth problem. There’s opportunity here that you’re not taking. That’s on you. And people don’t appreciate that. That’s still true, by the way. It hasn’t gone away. And that’s the problem, is that people want to stay trapped in their video games and then make excuses for why they’re not successful. I know why. You know why? Because what matters about the world is where you put your time, energy, and attention. And if you’re putting it into video games, you’re not putting it into things that can improve your life, make you money, help out your neighbors, right? Like, there’s all kinds of things you could be doing. Sharpening your skills and participation in person, etc., etc. And that’s the issue. What Mark is saying right now about helping your neighbor, sometimes I walk to the church and it happens that I found someone who scavenges garbage. You contract them or he would just go to your house and he wants the metal. He wants to scavenge the metal because he makes a lot of money. And I didn’t even knew about that kind of job. And now I have a friend. And not just a friend, I needed his help eventually three months down the road when I got rid of my air conditioner or when I needed my shed to be removed. And we’re still friends now. And this is just by walking and seeing the opportunity that was before me. And I said, hi, how are you? What are you doing? Because I was interested in the front lawn. He has all these heaters and all these different types of materials. And I was wondering what’s going on? And that’s what he does. So just taking a walk and talking to someone, it opens up an opportunity to engage at a level that it could turn into a job. It could turn into a financial way of getting to the top. Because that’s something that Mark helped me understand. The economy is not the money. The economy is us. The economy is us. It’s relationships between people. What do you think, Jesse? You can take this. Great. No, no, no. I’ll get to Benjamin Franklin. I like Mikhail’s thing because you want to notice that throughout the centuries, think of it that way, the methods of transport, methods of people participating and interacting within the community changes. So they go from walking everywhere mostly. You go from trains and then buses and now cars. Cars are the most isolated version of transport. And then you can even say motorbikes, like the next step after that post-World War II, you’ve got this next step of that. You maybe can get someone on the back of your motorbike, but A, they have to really trust you. B, they should probably be like secured or like comfortable gear. At least with a car, there’s that sort of proximal amount of safety you’re inside a box. But every container change, every method of transport changes how you participate and see things. Like it’s a big difference from driving around your neighborhood to walking around your neighborhood because when you walk, you have more time, energy, intention to participate and see things. Like, oh, that house was built in the 70s. That one house was built in the 80s. That house was built five years ago. Why does it look so bad compared to all the other houses built? Those sort of things you start to notice. All these persons got little creatures in their garden. That means they must have certain beliefs about the world. So that level of interacting and that phenomenal shift of the way people see things has had a communal effect. Like you said, when you walked and then you noticed something, which led to a connection, which led to a completely different shift in the way you perceive your area or your community or the things that are possible for you. My language is different. Someone asked me oh, where do you live? And I tell them, oh, I’m walking distance. Right. Wow. Yeah. I said that to Andre as well. Go get the job around the corner. That’ll do you good. Yeah. It could be. What does that mean? But for me, someone may say ten blocks is further away. It isn’t. Such a meme, isn’t it? If I have to walk for more than ten minutes and need a water bottle, I’d probably a towel. If you want to use your tractor, it’s a better side of the galaxy. Yeah. That’s a good thing there. What you saying there is true. Because New York worked maybe better than Paris. Interesting to debate that. Yeah. I work downtown. I work in the city. You were actually in New York? I’m in there. Wow. Okay. You are literally Yeah, people are not they’re not want they’re not Everyone is to themselves, you know, everybody is in their own little group Um, it’s it’s so funny. Sometimes you have people making a line waiting 30 minutes just to buy this special kind of you know The thing from this special kind of place right like this enchanted place where where they make this special kind of Uh, these bagels are good here. Yeah past ten bagel places Right, right But it’s all because it’s been enchanted due to some propaganda Right, but essentially or branding is propaganda. But yeah, right, right So that I just I I always find those things really fascinating in in the city because everyone like you said everyone is walking Like I was walking through, you know through my my town to go to the church And but they’re not paying attention You know, they’re not really paying attention and then yeah when I go there when I when I go there I see the energy shift Right because i’m standing and now Like they sense something different, right? I say hey, how are you? How’s it going? Uh, how long is the line in my my my my the way i’m approaching the line is completely different than the way They’re approaching the line Right. They’re rushing like I want it now, right? I’m there and i’m just there and then i’m just waiting my turn right and then that kind of like That kind of takes them by surprise and you can even see their breathing changes Right Well time is time and detail are related but but you know then that that was the you know Yeah, when you take the time the amount of detail you engage in changes, but jesse you want to address this this question? Okay. All right Okay You are right for linear single player video video games I think he means video games. There may be some flexibility And charity of narrative formulations in multiplayer games Certainly, there are constraints, but there are also Constraints in life like the laws of physics you can rebel against the laws of physics So you’re wrong there Yeah, it’s called jumping off a cliff And you can do it for multiple reasons so I don’t know what the laws of physics have to do with with um being inside of a video game or simulation because People want to break video games people broke gta 3 when it came about because they discovered hey If I drive all the way to the edge of the map I can get a certain airplane and do a certain thing with it And guess what when they discovered the developers discovered you could do that. They locked you off from that possibility That’s even in the supposed open world games. They they can lock you off from it. It is still a I didn’t so because I grew up in a kind of oral Tradition when I started playing video games, I played it according to the video games rules and then When I saw people doing things that the video game was not designed for I became fascinated by that Like oh, I want to break it, too Right, and then the same thing happened with mmos and like like mark was saying earlier. There is no penalty The penalty for me going To fetch water for my for my grandmother if I don’t stay on the right side of the road And I don’t be careful where i’m stepping In order to get to to the to the whale because there are some areas that are very Trenched and deep that if you step on there you’re stuck, right? And if you’re down there by yourself, you’re not going to get up, right? You’re gonna be there until someone comes and gets you and believe me i’ve been in that position and it sucks. So When when when when you’re playing these games now you have all the opportunity that mark is saying without any any consequences Right, so they’re always breaking physics Right. Well, you see that theme too in like the movie free guy The whole point is to break out of the game Right. The whole point of the matrix is to break out of the game to simulate the whole point Right the system failure well and and and even just being freed from the matrix like the place where i’d rather they never do Yeah Well, they do it in the animatrix. I rewatched the animatrix. It was yeah, but I I kind of see the animatrix is Like animatrix. It’s like neomatrix. It’s it’s not the matrix That’s that’s something up the earth is not rebelling against the laws of physics. Yes It is rebelling would be jumping off and falling towards the sky. No, that wouldn’t be rebelling. You can’t fall towards the sky Right. This is impossible. We fly by exporting the laws of physics. No, we don’t Um, no, we don’t use the laws of physics. You you we use them to make an aircraft Well, and look at the language Exploits and yeah. Yeah, even in the language. It’s so based in he doesn’t even see because this is the most modern trick He doesn’t even see that he’s stuck in a frame And that frame is manipulating him into believing certain things that just aren’t helpful for going forward in life Like I mean, yeah, you’re stuck of course It’s not one way to break the nine dot problem by the way There’s like four or five ways to break the nine dot problem, but if you’ve already presented one you’ll only believe there’s one that’s another description Trick that they use you like you can break it this one way if you do it the special way And then it’s like, uh, you’re not telling me there’s actually a couple other ways to do things if you want to Yeah, but you see I’m glad you said that because that that nine nine dot problem really messed me up for maybe nine years six years Because someone said oh this is this is solvable But but again, I mean I am thinking in the constraint like I I am following the law of what i’m looking at I’m not bending it. Yeah, i’m submitting to to what i’m looking at I’m not trying to bend the law of physics like someone said to me that this is possible what i’m looking at is possible But if I connect the dots I am not flipping the paper or doing any other way like i’m not doing that for like I I Believe that thing bothered me for a long time and then when I noticed how how the the solution was Performed I felt cheated like I felt Well, you were you were cheated. So so that’s that’s the role of the story. Yeah, so my friend my friend That’s what I consider evil that’s He drew that he drew the nine dots on a piece of paper, right? And I know there’s no nine dots here, right and then he he folded the paper up To try and solve it and then it would have worked. So he exploited the dimensions So there’s lots of ways to solve the nine dot problem to your point jesse and we’re not accounting for all of them and if our if our goal is to If our goal is to try to Cast the world with simple models we’re gonna end up, you know asking silly questions I may be missing something isn’t the falling person subject to laws of physics Yeah, they are but the fact that you jumped off the cliff is an active rebellion I wait and what jesse’s trying to highlight I think and jesse will correct me if i’m wrong You can rebel all you want and it ain’t gonna work On average, it’s not gonna end well for you rebel against whatever the rebellion is The rebellion is a construct right gallo eo’s laws of physics like gallo’s experiments are a constant Or it means the world dropping two balls and seeing how fast they That’s an idea. It’s a construct. It’s something we observe and we call it a not categorizes. Literally Getting too esoteric but yeah, right but but but the point and and there’s a bigger point here The whole gallo leo thing is totally misunderstood by almost everybody The the the question is whether or not you use the mathematical constructs With the earth at the center or the sun at the center Okay, because They knew how to do the math with the earth at the center. The math is very complex it’s much more difficult than it needs to be if You only care about getting the right answer If what you care about is the spirit Then it’s better to do the hard math And that’s what the fight was about all the other things people tell you the fight was about they’re wrong and they’re lying And you should burn them at the stake for being witches That was the argument the argument around gallo leo and that whole thing was around whether or not you see the earth at the center Or you see the sun at the center that was the entire argument I’m against the vote What he was doing was pointing out ways in which It’s easier to see the sun at the center and he was bringing evidence to them But the reason the spirit of that evidence was to move the center from the earth to the sun And i’m not saying there are no reasons to do that the math gets easier but there are consequences to doing that and the Consequence to doing that is to not understand that Effectively and i’ll put this in modern terms because I can get away with such a thing You’re moving the importance of consciousness in relation to creation When you move the solar system center to the sun from the earth There’s a reason why the earth should be the center of the universe That is the same exact reason that guys like perveky Want consciousness to be at the center of everything else and they want rationality to be the motive that constrains consciousness It’s gallo leo and revolution all over again It’s part two or part three or part four, whichever however many parts you say the enlightenment was part two Doesn’t matter right it’s the same argument What is primal in the world? Okay, you’re not an individual. You never were an individual You’re never going to be an individual. I’m sorry You will have more and less autonomy through your life when you were born. You are not an autonomous creature Sorry, uh, you need a lot of growing up and a lot of mothering from your mother up until at least the age of four Before you were able to avoid, uh dying instantly through exposure to nature I don’t know what else to tell you. That’s the world that you were born into and that’s the starting point It’s where you start from Remember and and that’s not where you that’s not where you begin Right you you well you start with something else right two things have to meet together That’s right. That’s right. Two things have relationship a relationship has to coexist a spirit has to go Existential a relation a container a container with two spirits has to coexist And cohere enough of that container has to cohere in order for a third smaller thing to emerge at great cost to the other two spirits That that is why you are born of original sin. That’s why that whole concept is actually key to understanding anything in reality Actually Key to understand anything in reality. That’s why we flee to video games. We don’t want creation I have creation. I turned on my freaking ps4 and now I click the button and now i’m the creator and now I get to Decide what I mean and when i’m out and how much involvement I have with these other people no one else Mitigates that for me. I’m an individual. No, you’re not you didn’t make that video game machine You didn’t make the electricity you contribute nothing to that. You’re a parasite on all that And if you’re not giving back in service, then you are nothing but a parasite and shame on you And and that’s the problem is that we are in some sense the center of the universe because the universe The creation story in all the texts you can pick the bible you can pick the baghavad gita. You can pick Whatever eastern text you want. Yeah, it doesn’t matter. Okay We are always in the center of that story We’re not the only characters in that story and we don’t come first But we are always in the center of that story Those stories always center around the mediator We have to mediate between the open and closed worlds because we are mediating between heaven and earth Right john verbeke. We can’t live in a two-world mythology. No, no, we have no choice john We live in a two-world mythology. There are two worlds. Sorry. Actually, there are three the third one. I would call reality Correct and we your reality is that mediation point? We make but we make that in one way. It’s a mediation point and the other way It is the result of the mediation. That’s what the way i’d say it jesse. It’s the result of the mediation Is the thing we call reality? Yes, I would say it’s the emphasis Because you can emphasize if I if you don’t emphasize something, right? Yeah, no, it’s the manifestation right and the manifestation Isn’t the phenomena It may be the result of multiple phenomena, right? And this is why the naming matters So you’ve got a phenomena from below and a phenomena above you’ve got the emergence and the emanation If you get them close enough, you can name the thing And if they’re not close enough Has to have a The thing when it meets together has to have an emphasis. Otherwise, it’s disembodied So yes, otherwise, it’s just two things coming together and you cook if you don’t notice the explosion this explosion never happened Well, so so some people we maybe will call them prophets, right? Can see how Things are yeah They can see how close they are. So when somebody like eric weinstein comes up with idw I go no Bad name just right off the bat bad name, but also bad emphasis without yeah Well, no spirit He’s not he’s not pointing to his spirit. He’s not pointing to a spirit He’s not people together in a place and a time and did something very similar by being online together. Okay? Well, we’re doing that now. Okay, but I would argue we have a community spirit here And michelle’s been with me, you know for for three years at this point, right about that michelle, right? Right from pretty much the beginning of of my discord verveky experiment right and and look It would be impossible Literally for me to overstate using language how important michelle is to everything that happened here All of this my entire youtube channel, I I cannot state how people first of all use my editor Right. Um, I don’t know. Well, and rey jones Andre who’s here earlier Did the initial music? Uh the music you actually like better jesse, which i’m like, yeah, you’re damn ozzy’s you all like the same stuff He also did the the help with the poetic Andre’s key to the model the model doesn’t happen without andre did wow key key key Key, I think i’ve told the story before but I mean it’s him and his and his that’s why he made the tarot card comment I was like, well, there’s the perfect comment to prove it to you. I’m because only you Know how to phrase that such that I know that it’s you right and there’s a there’s tons of other things andre And I have a big history You know manuel happened to not be there that day, which is about the most unusual event that could occur other than parabolic He used a parabolic doesn’t he wasn’t there and and it was andre who came up with with this parabolic who? Helped to give me the insight right and it’s and and then it’s the new music is done by rizzi Right and which is which is michelle’s son So like this man is pivotal to everything that happened here This is the manifestation of the community spirit of the wisdom community and now we have a new wisdom view The texas wisdom community that’s a youtube channel. I posted I think I posted the link earlier That’s where we’re doing the republic book club tomorrow morning it I think it’s nine central um, and I have a bunch of meeting I have to finish now because I get sick in the afternoon here, but um That that’s the first sort of offshoot wisdom community that we have This is a spirit of community. This is the spirit that i’m trying to raise and there’s a bunch of other projects going on if I can ever get my Get my stuff together well enough, right? And and there’s a bunch of people involved right sally joe is pivotal in this stuff Ethan is pivotal in this stuff. They come up with really good framing and really good ideas, right? And manuel of course, nothing happens without manuel, right? He’s just been an absolute rock and so, you know vanderclay Pumped the pumped the stream up on his live stream earlier today. That’s great. That was nice of him, right? All of these pieces are like none of this happens without the john burvicki meditation thing None of it because that’s how we found out about the discord server And so and moved it onto the discord server as a result, right? And and and you know my realization of oh I built a community Did that again stupid me. What am I doing? Right? My realization that oh, no, no, I know how to do this I know exactly what this is and how to manifest this and oh by the way now we need it We didn’t need it before now. We need it. We need online community to bootstrap people into offline community And we’ve had a bunch of people Jonathan for example, who’s been involved and he’s off, you know, he’s got a house he’s he’s growing gardens I think he’s you know thinking of goats. I don’t know if he got goats yet, right? He’s he’s doing stuff like it’s great and he’s participating in you know in in service and all the and he’s not online much anymore And I miss him dearly. Um, and and I met him he came to my house and visited for a few days brought his dogs his lovely little dogs All of this stuff is happening in you know in real connections in real life I’m driving three hours to meet Justin on his way up to colorado, right? Um, I don’t hear from just as much as i’d like but it’s still there like we’re building stuff that’s manifesting in the world in person and that’s the whole thing is that What are you doing? Are you doing mere fashion mere entertainment? Are you building something that will last beyond you and is bigger than you? That is bigger than you in a way that affects other people Right because I can play the video game with everybody and we can have a great time and there’s nothing wrong I used to play world of warcraft, you know, I I’m okay with that. I I still play world of tanks occasionally, right? I I don’t have any any teams there. I used to play um, you know these online online mmos and and things, you know The flash rounds are 244 on quick world, right? I used to play that stuff and there’s nothing wrong with playing that stuff Sometimes but at some point that’s all you’re doing and you’re not going to do in the world Right. Well look and this is the point about prager, right? He doesn’t understand porn is it is a distraction of your time energy and attention away from something good Okay, because there’s no good in the poor and a lot of people have uh deep Deep addictions to things like that, right and and and video games and other things like addiction is everywhere And addiction is possession by a spirit. That’s the best way to think about it And I and I do want to I do want to highlight so an ideal capitalist system There’s no such thing capitalism capitalism isn’t a system. Uh, the system would prevent paratisism. No, it wouldn’t Uh, capitalism isn’t a system. It doesn’t prevent anything It doesn’t have an agency or a will or a consciousness I think it does you have to input some values to earn a living Uh, no, you don’t uh, uh not seeing teleb Rent seeking he has the best definition of rent seeking ever. Uh, it’s very easy to understand attention hijacking, too Game streamers can create some value for observers. I guess. Well, of course they can right? Uh, so they so they input entertainment sure entertainment’s important like i’m not saying don’t ever play video games Yeah, I think mark I think I think the entertainment thing I think it always starts like that right because it’s the like there’s this initial spark of enchantment within you know, the entertainment like but then Right. Well the spirit. Yeah, yeah, it progresses to addiction, right? And i’ve heard this argument So I I dated somebody in scotland for a while. She wasn’t from scotland. She was she was a man Sometimes um So the problem the problem was and and this is very much a uk culture pray for mock everyone pray for mock We we we only we only go out and do our party drugs on the weekends So it’s it’s five days of of you know grind and boring and very british You know very non-participatory stuff and then it’s high contrast party and the germans are the same way too, by the way They’re they’re very much that way. I I We when we met first in croatia. I was like what the hell are you like? I’m not i’m finally over in europe I’m like all excited. I’m like, what the hell are these things? It’s like oh they’re little gambling houses and you know, there was no one there It’s just the middle of the middle of fake news virus scam, which is wonderful Best time to travel in the whole world Wish I could have done nothing but travel that would have been why I would have traveled everywhere I would have done a world tour. I would have had the best time of my life Uh, don’t get all your money stolen by evil people. It’s it’s not good. Um That that way of being where you just go hard at the parliates work hard play hard They’re not working hard. It’s europe. Sorry. Sorry europe Sorry, I live in the u.s. We we work You don’t not everybody but like really your your laws are anti-work that you know 32-hour weeks crappy stuff, right? not true as true in australia new zealand by the way, so kudos to them, um The the ethos is very very different and and That high contrast life. We have a boring rote sort of Work time and then what’s nihilism talking about nihilism you’re talking about nihilism One weekend a month We just go full at the partying and we do the coke and whatever and look I did a lot of research when that happened like this That’s what I do my research thing, right? That’s what I do my research thing, right edinburgh is the the drug capital of europe Little things right? Maybe if you have a drug addiction, you don’t want to be there just saying right but but also When you’re when you’re engaged in that activity everyone dies in their mid-forties You coke on the weekends you’re gonna die in the mid-forties It is what what happens on average to people not everybody but you know, it’s it’s real close to 80 percent You can’t you can’t sustain that much disassociation Well, no the problem is you never have a baseline Like you have a false baseline You’re stressing your system out and you’re and you’re creating this this super stressor because you’re you’re unstressed here and super stressed there And you can argue well, you know, look you can get away with the cocaine better if you’re a runner Yeah, maybe sure. I mean that’s certainly true Right, but but it’s still it’s not going to extend your life by 10 years You’re not making it into your mid-50s with that either Right. It’s just you’ve stressed your body out your whole life for 10 or 15 years. Like you’re not getting that time back Are you gonna do that? It’s your life. You can make that decision. I had uncles on both sides You can rebel against the laws of physics and rebel against the laws of physics and take all we go Can we go back to the benjamin? Comment about you have to input some values to earn a living Yeah Because I want to I want to say to him that the value is you you are was valuable Well, the value is time Energy and attention and you know what other value you have none Those are the three things you have that’s the will to power Like if you want to give nicha credit for will to power you have to recognize that will the power is time energy and attention It’s the only definition of power that actually works right Right and he’s you know, it’s strange capitalist system. There’s no such thing as a capitalist system capitalism is best thought of as a as a way of understanding your free access to money Right, but free flow of trade is enabled by capitalism in the medieval times in feudal europe, for example Your gold and the king’s gold were not worth the same They didn’t have the same physical buying power If you were a peasant and you found an ounce of gold on your property and you were allowed to keep it Which almost never happened by the way When you went to buy something with that gold the things you could buy were limited and their cost was different Rent There was no equality In the valuation of the currency whatever that currency is in gold and silver it can be copper It doesn’t matter. It can be your work your time your time right and and Capitalism is the statement that no no no no Your ability to access money and my ability to access money is the same now this creates some weird asymmetries, right? Like well I spend 10 minutes on a project and I get paid $1,000 and you spend 10 minutes and you get paid 50 50 bucks for your 10 minutes. Yeah, that happens Why because they’re not paying you for your time. They’re paying you for your time energy and attention And if you’re if you’re efficient in your use of it, you’re more valuable for the same amount of time And and or you know similar amounts of time so if I look I can do 40 hours a week of work in four hours Still even sick I can do that. It’s not a problem for me It’s not even a thought for me, right? People people people come to me all the time and they’re like what would you do about a little little and i’ll just Bang an architecture for them the whole thing Yeah We do this and this and this and this on the fly because I can do that for whatever reason I don’t whatever gifts I was given right and whatever experience I used to cultivate those gifts because that’s a factor too Right if you’re not experienced you’re not cultivating your gifts. That’s that’s a problem Right, so and I I do want to get to this mark if you earned enough money from youtube to quit your job Yeah, I wish I had a job to quit. That would be great You would be creating value for observers like me. Your income is justified. Of course it is. Okay, who does well in the new You cannot equate value though Well, no values are very different Who does well in the youtubes? Who who do you think research this? How much do you think I know about this? You have probably a hell of a lot First of all 10 businesses. I get a lot of business experience. We do 10 day MBA great book. Stephen silber Everybody should read it even if you just work for a living. It’s it’s fascinating how businesses actually work Why is that? Why is this important? It’s important because If you study youtube and you talk to the top youtubers or listen to their videos or you engage with the youtube video channel They’ll tell you right up front the videos that make money are the videos that are being talked about and that are entertaining. That’s it This is as close to entertaining as i’m willing to get is the pirate pirate broadcasting here i’ll push it I’m willing to get I could get sillier. I I do get sillier in private obviously but I’m just not willing to be fully bombastic and fully hyperbolic and go all in on silliness like mr beast And i’ve studied mr beast, you know, not not thoroughly or anything But like I understand the principle these guys are talking about and and i’ve and i’ve studied baritoseum and all the more serious channels Right, and I have a good read on peterson. I’ve got videos on that on navigating patterns. Check out my videos. They’re awesome Uh, oh did that one reach a thousand? I gotta figure out that one’s actually close to a thousand I think I was six views away or something I understand the principles and I could manipulate those principles and manipulate all those algorithms. That’s not a problem for me Right, but i’m not trying to do that. My goal is not financial Although I should kind of pay attention to that at some point because i’m running out of cash Right, but that’s not my goal My goal is to raise the spirit and to cultivate the spirit and to get that spirit To be correct with the world in a generative fashion Because lots of spirits aren’t generative the spirit of video games the spirit of porn no matter what jenis prager says is not generative Right, but it does take away time energy and attention from more important things and that’s the problem is that you have to have a sense for that And and and you know another spirit that’s trying to emerge is from daniel here Danny Texas wisdom community and uh is responsible for that wonderful republic book club Even though he has a camera with a bad algorithm that doesn’t know where he is Danny also helped me gain five pounds Yes, yeah our little community’s actually done a lot for each other like there’s a lot of pieces that nobody knows about muscle Muscle muscle. Yeah, that’s what’s important. That’s what’s important Hello I love I like your bono glasses. Oh, thank you, sir blue light blocking Yeah, I know You guys are talking about some interesting stuff tonight So thank you. We we’re hopefully every friday. We just he broke us last last last Friday when he was talking about vanilla sky and the 13th floor I can keep going. She watched you’re gonna watch the 13th floor. I had huckabee. I did I did I remember watching I’ve got it jesse i’ll get to it. I can’t really do a lot of movies man I said I said I said to mark that you and I have a lot of similar tastes and that is true Just from those two that you mentioned which I never I forgot watching them And then I started watching them. I I I remember watching them. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah Well, we can’t we can’t curse jesse over vanilla sky, but we can curse him over tom o’neil Not done with the podcast yet the the rogan podcast about mk ultra and uh, and uh, And we mean like we mean like real curses. Okay, we’re not talking about words here. We’re talking about like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah Seeking agregore Yes, that’s what we’re gonna do we’re gonna raise an agregore what’s wrong with the chaos what’s wrong with the chaos book Oh, no, it’s all it’s all potential right mark. There’s no chaos Dude, there’s so much there’s so much there. I mean he touched on the kennedy assassination and everything I’m like, oh man. This is this is nuts. This is cray cray nuts This is like way more conspiratorial than I than I think I’m not and I you know, look I should read the book. He might be right about all of this but Wow, that’s because a lot of things in the history center around, you know core people and when you start looking back you go Oh, you know like like a lot of people don’t understand how Many things alexander the great changed. It’s like Whoa, you start looking at the list like or another here’s a better one I don’t know and I forget the name of the show I saw a documentary years ago. It was like two or three hour documentary on bruce lee changed the world It was like how bruce lee changed the world. I think was the name of it Holy macaroni because i’m a huge bruce lee fan always what and then i’m like what he did what he did what? Like all this stuff and I never knew any of it and I was like, holy mackerel what is going on here? So yeah, this you you get into all that stuff All these weird well game of game of death for sure changed a lot. It wasn’t into the dragon. It was game of death That changed the hollywood history because it proved it proved that western audiences were interested enough in other forms of storytelling That could read subtitles weight training he changed. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s Who did raw eggs in the morning? Like I think I was like what there’s all kinds of things around bodybuilding and stuff that he changed that that maybe danny knows more about I didn’t know I know I didn’t know about the raw egg fact. I’m not to look into this thing I mean the raw egg movement is there’s a revival going on in the raw egg movement and then like whole milk like Non-pasteurized on homogenize that kind of stuff. Yeah, I know that’s a movement, but I didn’t know that came from him. That’s cool Yeah, there’s all kinds of stuff. I think it was called how how bruce lee changed the world There are these nexus people that change everything and the odds that you’re one of them are zero. So don’t worry about it That’s true Don’t even go there don’t be the player don’t try to be the game Right. Yeah. Yeah, you’re not the game designer, right? Like you’re not you didn’t do I designed a game in my head. That’s nice It means nothing. I asked a friend about this who was the most influential musician of the last hundred years But who who was the most individual music? the only person he could really say was Um jimmy hendrix Is the only one that’s had a significant impact on music at the last and I was like that’s interesting Because no one else has like there has been no more developments in music since jimmy hendrix You could argue maybe maybe stockhouse and the german thing but in terms of stockhouse Yeah, yeah, but but jimmy hendrix is the last one people like to say the whole rap sampling thing, but that was happening Already the sound the sound of music. Yes, but for music No, I mean, I think burn power makes a really good case for bob dylan, man Now bob dylan evil spirit destroyed the last person The idea was the framing was who was the last person to make a significant impact? That was that was the frame like where do we go back? Where do we like the last so bob dylan is yeah before that so there hasn’t because The whole idea of that was Yes, yeah 100 years kirk covain I don’t think he changed music as much as he jumped on a meme. He jumped on a he jumped on a trend I’m, yeah his death Caused a bunch like I go over this in my maternity video, right? Like I mentioned his death changed culture His death changed culture. His death didn’t change music. No, it changed music No, no grunge Let’s do it. Let’s do this. I know we’ve been five hours. No, there’s no there’s no there’s no sound garden. There’s no All that all that sound All that’s all that sound just dies out they’re all one one hit wonder albums basically they’re all they’re all one shots Without his death all of them so they don’t import it No, no, no, no, but because of his death they they changed all music and I would argue those those sounds From nirvana are still in the music like that that that flavor and that blend that whole style of blending Like when I listen to the music if you drive past an air force base or military base And you get a radio station over there because I do that sometimes when I go to cedar island, north carolina North carolina to the my buddies up there that that When you hear that music the blending in music was no, that’s that’s the hip hop thing. It’s not nirvana No, no, what i’m saying is Nirvana did blend they blend Blended the lazy i’m not gonna put any effort into this like the emo stuff like they made it they made it Right, they made it they made it acceptable to be lazy Right and because of the acceptability to be lazy that sound is still there because they think though That’s the hippie thing. That’s still the woodstock I am well, I agree except nobody was as lazy as as uh, cobane and his group of lazy I don’t think the hippie being called a hippie before was not a good thing. Right. It was a disassociation When he when what happened with him<|pl|> Sound of silence and you don’t really understand that song until you hear it played by I think it’s disturbed Right that does the cover and the way he sings it. It’s like no, no, no, that’s the that’s the music It was supposed to be but it was covered in this flowery 70s hippie happy music And so you don’t really hear the words until you hear him do it and then it’s like holy crap. It was overdubbed I almost sound asylum that whole album was overdubbed because in the original version you have You have the band is on the left. I think and then the original version is on the right They literally whitewashed as the expression goes most of the album to be more commercially Viable that was the end thing at the time and they were seeking the commercial thing So they’re playing this very somber very sad very depressing Lyrics, right inside of this flowery happy music. So it creates a california scene Cognitive dissonance right and it’s you know, one of the most successful songs of that decade. I believe it’s super popular and And it did really well and and it and it should have been it’s actually really good song But then when you hear the new version, right the cover it’s unbelievably different even though it’s almost identical musically, but it’s just that the The The nature of the music being as dark as the lyrics Changes your experience with the song such that you know, and and I think that Is just okay. Let’s get back to it. Cobain just did what jimmy hendrix did he just yes He used he changed fat he brought fashion like he brought a fashionable image Like he branded himself in a certain way of the midtown Cole minor aesthetic. Yeah, he had a certain flavor of tone So did jimmy hendrix so there’s a lot of similarities, but I don’t think cubain did anything that was He seized the moment within the generation, but I I don’t follow that It’s the lyrics the match of the of the depressing solipsistic Negative lyrics with the depressing solipsistic lazy approach to music Is a change in a fundamental musical. That was in the seventh The punk guys were doing that in the britain in the 70s 70s and 80s. I know That’s the whole point Cobain is the logical extension of the yeah, but Right. It’s not cobain that does it. It’s his death. That’s what i’m saying. Yes. Okay. Okay, cool. Yeah, we agree on that It happened in the 90s, right? That’s that shift that you’re talking about Died and because he died everybody wanted to tribute his quote talent, which I would argue with Right. And so that created this movement this tribute movement with a certain group of people like and this is what I was trying to This is what I was trying to point to in the modernity video The reason why you can’t use time frames for this stuff is because you really have to think of it in terms of Well, and let’s go back to the movies jesse because this is what the thing that you’re trying to help point out in contrast Which I appreciate very much by the way me too is that All of these movies happen in this time frame and 15 years later. Look what happens in 2014 What? Yes, and it is 15 years, right? And you know, I think 2014 is so pivotal and there were three big things I can’t remember all three of them anymore and and there’s probably that happens roughly two cycles two 10 year cycles is roughly though I think something happens in the 70s star wars and it takes roughly two cycles. It gets revamped again in the early 90s, right? gets re Redigitalized and star wars takes on a new cultural force Again, well, they try to catch the same group again and retain the old group and actually you shouldn’t do that Was fashion works in 20 years cycles, that’s right, right, but you’re you’re you’re flattening the world at that point You shouldn’t you should uh pointing to the phenomena The phenomena of how things come about Oh, yeah, I think every 20 years in the past, right? But what should have happened is they should have let it go and done a new story And they they did they did star wars did Yeah kind of I mean, this is actually they tried to but it was they tried to It was I don’t I like I like how you’re pointing that out No, no, you’re pointing you’re pointing something out to this idea of going back, right? And let’s let’s redo it because I think star wars really started doing that Yes, everybody. I mean, I remember. Oh my god. They’re making a new star wars and it was It was a big deal. Yeah, the ultimate materialism is the ultimate control over the external world Is this idea of star wars and and and what we’re doing? Well, yeah bern this week actually pointed out something that was really interesting And I know this is a side tangent, but you have the romanticists in the early 18th century And by the end of the 18th century you have the romanticists, but now it’s corporatized romanticism So you have the idyllic child, but the idyllic child is now being used to sell pear soap So it’s no longer like the the idea has been so subverted from its original intention To do with childhood innocence and like slaving children and the mechanistic industrial age now It’s about propagating this ideal of the innocence the disney Issues and Get subverted for a commercial end and that’s yeah, and it follows again in the 60s with disney and Subverting all the fairy tales from the original gory implications like go go read the original red little wood writing hood Although we’re just talking about this other day and this is like four or five different endings of little wood writing and they’re all Brutal they’re all daniel. They’re they are the red room that you speak in Yeah, one of them is one of them That is the hunter has to come in and open the wolf up like cut the wolf open and the child and the mother Or the grandmother come outside of the wolf’s belly like that’s a bloody That’s not disney at all. That’s not So there is this sense of subversion of phenomena every 20 years roughly speaking or every There’s a couple different cycles, but roughly speaking. Yeah, it’s it’s about every 20 years Something kind of tries to get brought like avatar right now, right? Just they’re trying to pull avatar back after about 15 years of being away So, yeah, there’s another pattern Well, I think I think star wars knows those patterns those cycles are closing. They’re getting quicker. Yes Yes, that’s a problem. And I you know, I i’m struggling with is entropy increasing Does it even even video games mark? Maybe like the video games are not doing the same thing again Like I I think like going back to what benjamin franklin is talking about with with streamers. They don’t have any more content I Think I think we should Yeah twitch it twitch but but twitch was that that content right because now YouTube is like you could get the same level of experience of playing a game without having to even play the game Right, and and then the content is just dull They get the gamers the gamers that got popular playing those video games. You could see them just talking now They’re not even playing the game anymore Well, that’s what and that’s what people are watching to some extent because again The the attraction is the amusement the entertainment the attraction isn’t people talking it never was And so when you see the idw and you go ha it’s our time The intellectuals will rise again because we’re all clever talkers. Now this is our moment and let’s see the dual moment And i’m like guys, it’s four people relax We get eight billion people on the planet and you’re worried about four people like stop You’re not reaching people I mean, that’s why when when peterson moves over to daily wire and I have a couple videos on this, right? It’s a big deal because he’s reaching a new audience. He’s not trapped on youtube anymore He’s now reaching a new audience people who would never be on youtube and you can go. Oh, well, he’s left his core Whatever. Yeah, whatever you cry cry cry river. I’ll I’ll get the world’s smallest violin out for you Like it’s a good thing because peterson’s doing good work and and it needs to spread and if that’s the way it spreads Then that’s the way it spreads, you know but but you know, he has to do the chores like because And if you think about the the the change in intimacy the the lack of involvement There was nothing more horrifying than watching my friend I used to game with actually go on twitch and watch other people game and i’m like What are you doing? You have that game you could play that game This is a this is a level of removal and disembodiment and and lack of participation that I couldn’t have imagined Like what do you like? Why would you even do this? And then i’m you know, i’m stuck at his house and i’m like, oh, I guess we’re watching this I guess there’s nothing else to watch because he owns the tv and like I have to be a gracious guest But my god, what do you and I ribbed him for it too? Of course, like where the hell are you? Why are you doing this? You know like like go over to the laze channel now i’m okay, right? But don’t watch somebody else play a video game that you have Like you don’t know the lathe you want to watch somebody play with a lathe. You’re learning something at least You’re engaged in something you can’t engage with any better But when you when you’re watching somebody else play a game that you own Like what are you doing? You’ve just reduced your your your your participation to zero or as close to zero as you can get like It’s become less than entertainment at some point Yeah, I wanted to verify too this there’s this idea of you know, subverting breaking the game to Get attention As well as to find mastery Right dunces and dragons, isn’t there a level to which people are trying to find different? Holes in the law and the code of what they can do To like play that move that no one’s played before and that you know to kind of subvert the dungeon master so they game control Yeah, does that happen? No, but I I think I think here’s the problem like I think to some extent jesse you’re stuck um People tend to get in this binary about oh either you’re playing by the rules or you’re rebelling. No No, I was talking to a phenomena of when people Right. Well, let me let me speak to the third phenomena because this is the problem like there’s a phenomenon going I think mark became the dm there for a second Yeah And then there’s the phenomena of rebellion right the spirit of rebellion But then there’s the third thing and and this is it looks like vanderklaas is gonna have my third way conversation finally I in a live stream. That’ll be fun There’s a third thing called exploration where people are just exploring to find the boundaries When we tend to talk about things we tend to talk about them in hindsight Propaganda, you know propaganda in hindsight. You never know it when it’s happening. I didn’t see the I look I I missed Social distancing. I’ve been kicking myself every day since like how did I miss that? I’m a professional in this stuff I know manipulation I missed it totally totally. I got all the other stuff about about fake news virus scam, but I didn’t get that one Uh, you know, it took somebody else to point that out When you’re when you’re looking at things you’re going well we know there are rules in a game and we know roughly what those rules are and Therefore people must be either following the rules or not. But in fact, there’s a third mode called exploration And sometimes people are exploring and that’s a big difference. It’s not a small difference. It’s a big big difference and so the spirit of Exploration is a third way to think about what people are doing. They don’t know the rules. They don’t know the container They don’t know the limitations. They don’t know whether or not walls are walls They have to find that out in Dungeons and Dragons specifically some walls are not walls Like they’re just not they’re they’re they’re they’re actually, you know of traps or or or Illusions or whatever and you can walk through them You have to explore to find that out you have to do searching you have to seek you have to be curious, right? And and that’s the whole thing. It’s like you you you don’t pro creativity. I was just I was I was obviously i’m Yeah, I was I was trying to get back to the The note that Benjamin Franklin started on value and how people break the games to find value in them Well, they sometimes they can be yeah, but you explore to find value. Yes exploration you Either submit or you or you subvert so it’s submit or subvert submit or subvert Right, but but the exploration that’ll afford you both and that’s why it’s the bigger thing Exploration is a bigger deal than just dealing with the rules or fighting against the rules Can I put a question on the floor that kind of spans across music and mastery and A couple topics we’ve been talking about what and she’s i’ve been thinking about this for a number of years actually And I i’d like to get this group’s thoughts on it is in houston. I was with the symphony or This older guy he used to be the the director of the symphony orchestra when we were at the fine arts museum I think we were in front of like maybe the state of dash you just you know david I don’t know if it was a replica or whatever, but we were talking about excellence and then the question of I don’t remember how it came up But the question of what is the greatest achievement of western man came up and his answer was the symphony orchestra I’ve been i’ve been thinking about that ant that question for a long time Um, what do you guys think about that? No, no argument for me I’m shocked shocked. I say The greatest achievement of western man cathedrals No contest without cathedrals. There’s no symphony. Sorry. Sorry, ethan There’s no reason for a symphony and there’s no ability to organize To the degree that a symphony is possible. That would be my argument. Come on jesse something Oh, there’s some cool stuff In the chapter three or four of the republic about all the different, uh, All the different, uh types of sounds that are produced in a in a in an orchestra You’re jumping ahead. I oh, I’m sorry. I listened to it in the sauna and I can’t rewind it and it just goes Ahead we’re having a look a few hours there danny. I haven’t I haven’t read chapter two in a long time about homework, but What what was this About the About the orchestra Yeah, I mean i’ve been thinking about that for a long for quite a while. I’ve been music music. I mean music has Uh, by by nature has an enchanting, you know component to it like there’s something already natural to to a calling Uh that music has but I think I think without a container you can’t have the orchestra And that’s what mark is trying to get at like in order for music to be played in a And in its proper harmony it needs to feel at home By the needs there’s a hidden tell within this the way you answer this question The way you answer this question actually tells has a tell with you that that’s why i’m like, hmm I could say Let’s add it to the list because we have a list of those questions So, yeah, let me add it to the list if I can find this one part of me wants to say notation Because then more people can participate in producing the music Not necessarily knowledge right because you can if you’re a good enough musician you could hear something can Reproduce it more or less but the notation of music The ability for others To agree upon a To agree upon a document is something else right Like to uphold the tradition of this is the way, you know, Beethoven’s 9th symphony is done Right actually like right before I walked in here we we were listening to Schubert’s 8th symphony right Like it’s a nice right before I walked in here Okay So The tell within that is what do you For sure, what do you value as? The goal of artistic treatment Or no the goal of achievement as such. I don’t go. Yes. Yes, you could just remove that bit out. Yeah Um, yeah, I don’t know how to answer that question honestly I Thought your answer was good. It’s just I think That’s all because it’s reasonable like if that’s your if that’s your highest value Right. This is this is very much reminds me of the first people question. So it’s the same It’s the same sort of flavor. I would say Which document is my list of questions in damn it I don’t know How It’s in the mark of wisdom one i’ve seen that I think so, yeah, I think yes, I think you’re right That means I have to find it. I was in here a little bit ago and you guys were talking about the porn and video games Yes and addiction interesting because those two Are very much related but they’re not the same because Right a little bit of video games and it would be all right, but there’s not really any safe amount of porn Well, they’re both fantasies I don’t know that that’s necessarily true but maybe I mean i’m open to the idea video games Or that there is a safe amount of porn Yeah, i’m both like I think they’re I I don’t know. I mean i’m not making it you’re gonna get into the representational argument of whether it’s Correct to draw a certain female in a certain way Well, that’s where that’s where you would get into like you’d have to Because the video games right the video part is conditional the game part is what’s necessary Because people are playing games In different ways before video games just as much as people depicting And fantasizing over certain depictions longer than porn or what we know as porn if it was just um Does it does it change anything? It was just animated Where there was you’re not viewing actual human being because there’s a whole Way more implications to go along with the industry. Oh, yeah But that can be way worse dude, oh, yeah stuff they do in animation Wow No, thanks like especially the japanese and the damn squids like no Thanks, there was a there was a time that there was a list of the most popular watch porn and overwatch Pretty much beat all everything else overwatch like the video game. Yep overwatch porn Oh, wow the hybrid of the two demons video games and porn And one of them is record And you know who’s creating them he’s not the woman Yeah Crazy thing is is crazy guys With the animated stuff that they’re at least you’re not um, you’re not giving your attention to an industry that’s Um That just sets the I mean, it’s it you’re not giving your attention to an industry that’s incentivizing um human trafficking prostitution all that stuff But You just went he went deep there I don’t know if that’s the issue. Ethan. I mean again, you know, I do this Um what i’m saying is if we if you could talk about just animated only it allows you to is it allow you to Yeah, yeah, it separates it out I I agree. It separates it out from the second order of facts, right? But and I would argue they’re second order of facts. They’re not first order of facts. Yeah um Right, but the two are you know, they go along with each other so well, right for for a good reason But that is the spirit and that’s the problem And so, you know you you can say Some people are exhibitionists and so that’s not there’s no exploitation in exhibition Whether or not you allow the exhibition or whether or not you should is a different story That’s where the where the where the problems where the problems uh come in Oh, we get it. We get a nipkis in the bud. Hold on Benjamin franklin, I think the post-modernists were onto something. No, that’s wrong. It’s unequivocally. No When they talked about the thing called hahtology Hahtology what like cultural things from the past keep repeating and being glorified Well, of course they do that’s called patterns and that’s what we navigate on navigating patterns Like they didn’t have a point that they’re three-year-old idiots. They had no good points They said nothing new ever if you think they said something new bring it to me and I will prove you wrong I have done my homework. They said nothing new. There’s nothing new in post-modernism Zero new things zero new conceptions zero new ways of seeing the world zero goodness, which is more important zero It’s all in book one of the republic. That’s the The thing he’s pointing out to is that you could just reinterpret what he’s saying is tradition Right, but those are patterns Exactly, but that’s that’s the thing you’re just calling the thing by a different name That’s the post-modern trick. Yes Called by a different name give it a different category a different perspective it changes It’s a now you’re trying to invoke a spirit towards that name and that spirit’s not good There’s no goodness in the spirit of post-modernism some traditions aren’t good like This is the other thing too traditions aren’t like neutral, right? Yeah, right Well in some traditions were good and now we’re no longer good. It’s complicated There are there are constantly new releases of great albums. I’m not aware, but nobody pays attention to the novel That’s not true books are still pretty popular people prefer to live in the past crystallized version of reality. No, they don’t Uh, they they prefer progressivism. They prefer the new thing I just i’m doing some consulting now with it with a new company actually that I that well They’re not a new company new to me and uh, you know the guy was talking about this. We have this technology It’s you know, I think it’s 40 years old at this point or something crazy And he’s like we keep telling people about it and i’m like, yeah, don’t do that. He’s like what and i’m like, yeah I don’t ever say that Because because what they what they’re doing is a new approach to Securing information on the internet. That’s what they’re doing. It’s like what oh, it’s a new approach. Yes, it is Like that’s not a lie. It’s it’s a new approach uh It’s not new with you know from pre 1990s But it’s new for now and that people want the new they want the latest thing. They don’t want they don’t want the old stuff Uh, that’s you know written about everywhere. That’s like so prevalent and that’s the problem if entropy is increasing Or at least our Desire for change Is greater than it used to be and so we’re forcing change where maybe there doesn’t have to be any Like updating the google assistant so it doesn’t work Which is something I went over on my personal channel like i’m really pissed off it used to work and now it’s clearly buggy and broken Uh, if we constantly seek change we’re gonna constantly get broken stuff And the stuff we have is going to continue as it has been doing to decay This is mapped out in a movie called office space which also came out around the same time as the matrix Which just deals with the matrix from the opposite end Essentially, it’s dealing it from the comedic side. So he’s the corporate man He’s rebelling against the system I don’t know jesse you’re stretching office space is another one of my favorite movies. I mean Yeah, but girl if you rewatch it with the same or maybe i’ll try and unpack it within the matrix But it’s it’s the it’s the same thing. It’s just the complete um Paradox of the matrix, but he has it’s the same thing the corporation fails it burns down And he’s freed of the corporation by the end of the film. He becomes a free agent He does that’s the film that’s the power of the film ends Oh, yep fair enough, but but my argument against that would be the following the motif the archetypal pattern right so i’m going with my My wonderful video story narrative archetype, which even paul vanderkei watched and liked and found very helpful According to him in three different videos that I know of That archetypal pattern of Escaping the system Right is not the same in the matrix as it is in office space And office space is based around the location of that story in that specific moment dealing with that same node of Decentralized banking. No, no, I I totally understand your point Okay, so yeah, and and I think what you’re pointing at I have watched all the movies you recommended But I think I have them all now and I will get to them. It’s just going to take goes to the shell I I’ve got it. I’ve got it relax. It’ll get watched. I’m gonna watch 13th floor next I might get to two movies this this week. Who knows you never know What what I see Is there’s a difference between the pattern and the manifestation? This is again. This is another re-enchant people want to reduce to pattern Oh, it’s just pattern. No, it’s not just pattern how the pattern manifests matters Right and and so again kurt cobain kurt cobain doesn’t kill himself The music has changed like music doesn’t go in that somewhat wacky dry I I There’s some aspects of uh, you know some of that music that I actually really love Um, and some of the music, you know really captured the spirit of the day. We’ll say right but but Music would have been changed would have been better. I don’t know. I can’t make that claim. I wouldn’t try right in the same way If we had gone with the comedic office space approach and we didn’t have the matrix or the manifestation of the matrix Where it had been different To cover all the same philosophy but do it correctly within the proper story framework Which they didn’t they subverted at key points that the whole movie is not a sub. This is why it’s sneaky The whole movie is not a subversion This is why I like it I hate the subversion subverted parts, right? The subversions are no good But the reason why I like the movie is because that those patterns are there the other place is tron legacy tron legacy’s grace It like until I rewatched it recently. I didn’t even see it. No, holy macaron There’s the reputation of buddhism the perfect reputation of western buddhism. There’s your your acknowledgement of Living in the simulation is no good and the simulation is dangerous because it’s going to break out and destroy the world It’s a virus. It’s effectively a virus That can destroy the world There’s your representation of what is important and what isn’t and there’s your reputation There’s your there’s your reputation of creation by man It’s all sitting in tron legacy behind some of the best music Ever in the movie to match in terms of the movie. They may there’s some flaws right in that movie for sure But they’re relatively minor Um, but all of it’s right there So when you see it’s tron legacy had come out instead of the matrix That would have changed everything Love it. It’s been like a while since I heard it. Yep All right No, but you see what i’m saying? Like if you swap those two movies There’s a lot of similarity and you could add back in all the deep philosophy Although i’d argue there’s some deep philosophy in tron legacy, too. There’s some deep deep deep decisions in there Um, and it’s well worth watching over and over again because it’s just a wonderful movie So i’m jumping way way ahead When I listen to the republican chapter eight nine or ten And um, I I think I got the sense that the allegory of the cave Uh was directly related to this concept of imitation and I think I touched on that chapter three and four as well Now i’ve been trying to I mean again, these are undeveloped thoughts, but um Because I have to like you’d have to lay out what exactly is imitation and that’s that itself I’ve been thinking about that for a while. So, you know, I i’m not I can’t really even ask a sensitive question right now, but When that was the first time that I listened through the republic like I all I can say is like if I if you just hear the allegory of the cave without listening to it in the context of the republic like Like I when I listened through it I just got a whole sense that like oh man like this does not mean what I thought it meant You know when I went to college and people use the matrix analogy and all that stuff I just got a sense that like he was using that as an example to point to an asset To like one component of the of the concept of imitation that was kind of the sense that I got um, right so, you know I don’t really know where to go with that. But well, no, this is my this was my point in in episode one of Of the republic book club to your friend, right? He said well, what’s the meat of this story or this chapter or whatever? We were talking about and I said you’re thinking about this wrong There are no wasted words in this book Modern books have a lot of fluff and garbage and waste and stuff that isn’t relevant In the same way that modern movies do in in many modern movies And I think that what you’ll find is that when somebody like jesse talks about movies or when somebody like ethan talks about music The stuff that they’re talking about is of a quality Quality Where there is very little waste if there is any at all In other words the significance of the things they are talking about are high quality and you notice that Because there’s very little waste my argument for the republic is the following There are no wasted words because books were expensive to write The only quote waste in ancient stories is around whether or not they were made originally as plays Or not because in a play you have to add in detail that you do not need when you are only reading the story Now my contention and I might be completely wrong about this But my contention would be that they tried the method of storytelling that they use We think of as mythological simply because they were doing the story both ways at the same time They were making it Useful for plays without being too restrictive They have to stand here move there blah, right, but also useful for just reading But there’s almost no extra fat in that process Because it’s still expensive to put these things to paper in essence, right? and so They are of high quality Because the waste of effort is not there It just doesn’t exist in those texts and so removing things from the text Changing the context taking things out of the text as though they’re meaningful Will only work when all the people experiencing it and this isn’t controllable on the internet Have the frame that it was removed from If you don’t have that frame Telling somebody the allegory of the cave doesn’t work is what i’m saying Yeah, because it’s it’s you know If you’re talking about even if even if it is common some kind of commentary or something on our qualification on this idea of imitation That’s if you’re talking about imitation, there’s all there’s guys are actors as agents. There’s containers Are we talking about the guardian class? Are we talking about what information we should censor from the guardian class? And if so, like oh is that conversation being had by a guy who’s real? Arrogant or real hot-headed or is you know what i’m saying is who’s having a conversation? Why are you know what i’m saying? It’s like it’s it’s it’s you can’t just take this content than just you know It’s even hard to do that. You know, it’s even hard to all the details matter And that’s really the problem is that all and how do you resolve detail? And I think jesse touched on this earlier the reason why you walk in your neighborhood as michelle was talking about is because When you slow down You add detail to the world What is the meaning crisis the meaning crisis stems from the intimacy crisis the intimacy crisis stems from speeding things up I want to set up really quick because this event is only going to last 10 seconds. So I only want to spend say uh, uh a minute or two setting it up because it’s only 10 seconds and then Other people go and set all this stuff and you see that you see this with the wealthy class, right? When you have large amounts of money and you throw a party you get it catered why Why? Right, because you have the money and now you can spend time with your guests If I run a party and I have done this in the past and I do all the cooking which is fine I’ve done that in the past. I can cook just fine. Thank you very much I have less time with my guests now that may be okay They may spend time with me in the kitchen or they may help or whatever, right? But The time and attention actually matters and that’s why wealthy people pay caterers a lot of money catering is very Very lucrative business if you can get into it It’s also very stressful because you’re usually on tight timelines and those sorts of people tend to be picky Because they don’t have any appreciation for the work you did they’re paying you money and they expect it to be their way And because they’re people And all people are actually not people but they’re actually what? Muppets, right? They they they Don’t communicate well like Like people just sort of assume everybody communicates what they feel accurately and what they want accurately and does so well Both of those assumptions are completely false and provably so and all throughout any research you look at into it And so it it sort of becomes like oh we suck and we just suck as muppets We suck at understanding what we’re up to we suck at communicating We’re up to we suck at knowing what what we really want and we suck at communicating what we really want even when we know it Well, we just suck at all that stuff. We’re just terrible at it. This is this is the problem with muppets Yes, meat muppets. We are meat muppets. That is that is true um Thank you, mil Sorry, I got distracted and needed to learn that trance infini ability again Your microphone is way too high gain way Super high gain your your gain is like 6 000 It’s a little static. Yeah Reading the republic there’s all kinds of things that you can just take out of context and You know use to your ill will, you know, like right way these this this class of Guardians they’re hypothetically indoctrinated by an ideology So we just need to find the right ideology and give it to them, you know And then it just all goes to hell like that. Yeah, that’s such a simple reading of it, too Sorry Sorry, I didn’t mean to I just said that’s such a simple-minded reading of it, too like that Sorry, go ahead. I didn’t mean to help you. No, I was just saying it’s I mean Yeah, you just take it out of context and it can just you know, you can use it to justify anything communism Totalitarianism, you know, um, right children away from their parents that you could just do anything But he’s covering all the bases in the book and if you don’t know he’s covering all the bases you can think he’s endorsing something Like that’s part of the problem It’s like if you just take one part of any book you can take that as an endorsement And say this book has this in it and therefore it’s an endorsement Even though it might not be an endorsement because the republic is an exploration Of a bunch of systems To contrast them to tell you something important about the world It is not an endorsement of any one of those systems. That’s not in the book from my understanding. I haven’t read it, but It’s a dialogue as a piece of well clay, right or play-doh actually And they’re kind of manipulating it and using it to kind of like as you know as reference points so that we can understand things better and you know bounce it off and um, really I mean he says it’s like we’re not talking about the contrast points of better way to think about it in order for us to I have not um, who the hell’s me now? It’s another dialogue Uh, yeah, I don’t reading is bad i’m burning all the books that’s I can’t um But yeah, I gotta watch all the movies now He outright says it says well in order for us to understand Uh, he says well if we want to understand the soul better and they’re not even necessarily even talking about the soul It’s like let’s just let’s kind of explode this out and let’s just You know, let’s hypothetically construct a republic You know so that we can understand the way the world works a little bit better because we can spread things out, you know Well, well, I mean they’re spreading things out and focusing them at the same the modern equivalent of greek philosophy is science fiction Modern science fiction. That’s the modern equivalent. What do you do in modern science fiction? Let’s take uh, star trek star trek’s a great example They are removing money. There’s no money in star trek doesn’t exist they are removing the cost of creating goods and Largely fuel right that’s all taken care of by technology So they’re using technology to remove constraints in the world like food all the food comes out of a replicator The replicator is powered by a magical powering bs device fair enough, right? They’re removing money money. It isn’t a thing. They just kind of axiomatically state. There’s no money in our society anymore Like fair enough Why are they doing that? They are doing that because effectively He’s trying Roddenberry is trying to highlight aspects of human behavior So he’s saying let’s take out the constraint of money. Let’s take out the constraint of hunger Let’s take out the constraint of energy How would humans behave? This is the same thing the republic’s doing Right, this is the same experiment that greek philosophy does let’s assume certain variables are Taken for granted or are of certain value and don’t change their say your universal and unchanging What would humans be like in that scenario? What is the what is the change to the humans when you say and this is see this is the point everybody like absolutely everybody misses If you do away with what we would uh modernly call the hierarchy of needs by maslow And he would he’s spinning in his grave every time you say that he doesn’t believe in hierarchy How do humans behave differently and the point of things like star trek and the point of the republic and other texts of that nature? Is that? Humans don’t change at all You fill their needs and it changes the manifestation Of the spirit of a human, but it does not change the spirit of a human Like the fact that you’re not hungry means that it takes longer for you to go to war. It doesn’t mean there’s no war Right, that that’s not the lack The lack of lack right the absence of food may make war happen quicker But the presence of food does not do away with war. It’s not a symmetrical relationship And when we fail to understand that we miss the point of philosophy Which is to highlight and contrast these changes so that you don’t get stuck in this uh Belief in a utopian system that can save us Or a utopian type of person or a utopian mix of people Right that can that can solve a problem because those problems are perennial. They’re not going away. We’re still humans We still die we still grieve we still lie cheat and steal one another right? We still fall in love and fall out of love, right? You know all of these things still happen, right? We still you know get caught up in our addictions, right? This all still happens What is this movie jesse i’m not familiar Is it working yes, it’s working now perfect sorry about that You’re a little lower than than before but you still sound better. Just not static you’re I have I have yeah Perfect I got I got really I got really um I had to I had to remember how to play that tron synthety theme and I was like That’s I must have missed about my sound card here Um after earth if that’s the one with will smith I would have I would have said just it’s just don’t even Don’t even bother after yang after yang. Yeah I don’t know what that is Yeah, me either Oscar nominated but unwinding movie tar. I’ve never heard of that one Uh, yeah, these are all 2020. Yeah, come on man. There’s so many movies that come out since 2015 that hard to keep up with After yang is one with the sci-fi I Think about families in the future with colin farrell Yeah It doesn’t look appealing. It doesn’t look appealing. I was watching. I have heard. Yeah, sorry I was watching a tv series that my wife and I really were enjoying where Where people couldn’t have kids? And it only lasted one season It was really good It was really really good That’s what it’s supposed to do. Yeah I mean they did a great job with with like there was uh, there was something happening and then Someone was able to discover that there was a way to have kids and and then that didn’t Yeah, right. Sorry T loss confirmed. Um After yang in a near future a family reckons with questions of love connection and a loss after their ai helper Unexpectedly breaks down. It’s materialism. It’s the material view of intimacy. Yeah, this is terrible Like nobody should watch such garbage. I’m sorry, but no No, this is complete material It’s better watching hara like like hara films or they they have the pattern they have it right? Like all these other films they they’re just horrible This whole idea of of of having an agent in the world That’s a robot or whatever and being able to fix it by taking it to a specialist It’s just gnosticism like no No No, no, you can’t go to the to the therapist and get your head adjusted or go and get some drugs to no That doesn’t work. Like you need to put in the effort Like value and effort are related they’re not linearly discreetly related but they’re related Right, like you you just have to go through the hard work and build relationships intimate relationships. It sucks It’s the worst thing ever. You might end up with a friend like ethan who Other than his stupid hair is awesome Like if you just not remind me of the hippie freaks i’d be much happier. Okay, right I hate hippies too. Okay, so you are look you’re like a captain hippie over there. You’re like king of the hippies People I may be king of the muppets, but you’re king of the hippies long before hippies, dude You were around before you were born what are you talking about, you know you So in my country you were not allowed to have long hair really Until we had the revolution Because of jesus Really? Really? Yeah, idol worship for jesus. That makes sense. How did they wow we we don’t even know if he had long hair though well Yeah, exactly exactly That’s the rule that’s the rule But that was the rule again. That was how it was represented So that was the rule and and again, uh, you can say that that was part of the rule that they added because women have long hair Yeah, yeah Maybe maybe there was a type of long hair that you could have but not not as long as as like a woman Maybe But in my country you couldn’t have long hair before Wow After durable like it was in 1960 1970 that all that changed Did they still have duels that’s the better question I I don’t know they’re they’re They’re kids now with the internet they’re they’re Spanish man level Spanish and honor that’s a big deal for for spain man. That’s yeah and and and um The native americans were very family honor not lose face. No, we still have that we still yeah, we still have that Yeah, oh, yeah, the spaniards man there. Oh, yeah, I like that You know, what’s um, funny is that all that stuff is still there in the bottom in the lower class duels are still there I hope so Like none of that’s changed Yeah Yeah, we’ve ever seen a bar fight before that’s a dual boxing. Yeah boxing was a way to The 19th century at least try to keep this in the bar fights boxing bar fights are a kind of A way to mediate that tension in the community The problem is bare knuckle fights are are like beyond brutal like boxing has some formalities and like Stage and arena and time and place but Only modern boxing. I mean all well i’m talking from the 19th century. That’s that’s where else I have an ancestor that was a Was a bare knuckle fighter He fought um Okay, there’s the first world champion boxer ever I forgot his name But he would go around to mining camps and logging camps and He would ask to fight the toughest guy in the camps to stay in shape And my my my ancestor is one of those guys So he got to fight him he lasted till like the the second round I think Oh, is that jack johnson you’re thinking of no I have to look it up but um really long time ago probably 19th century Early 20 early 20th century. Well, jack johnson was like, yeah, he was pretty back there Um Yeah But because my my ancestor he was always working in either mine camps or logging camps and It’s just always fighting people well that was the entertainment in logging camps was boxing So that makes sense, but but I mean you can see the pattern of the duel But when you take away that pattern to participate in in we’ll say polite society Or maybe jesse would go so far as to talk about the different way in which say something like a duel manifested In low culture versus high culture Um, although i’d scream about that It’s just it’s just a way to distinguish phenomena. That’s all i’ve tried to do with that is that Because typically the high culture is just the elite of the day, right and people subscribe to that Okay, just give me a second because i’m trying to map something out and typically speaking. That’s always spoken ill of and brought down because it’s it becomes Um, it’s a great word to use here It becomes naive Like it becomes self-obsessed with itself and that’s what Post-modernism is done with the art Yeah, I mean I can see some of that I mean if what you’re saying is there’s a fundamental Implementation difference based on class and you want to say it’s high culture mid culture and low culture then Maybe so you’re maintaining the patterns, but then the problem becomes what ethan pointed out which is Dueling still exists in the lower like the lower class patterns don’t actually change the implementation to move a little bit but not much because they’re Lower class definitionally means you’re constrained now classes can be defined different ways Technically, we don’t have a lower class in the united states, although we’re using money, right? It would be birth in the uk Right, it would be birth in india. There’s different ways of doing classes in different countries And so it’s very hard to talk about this stuff in some sense, but that’s part of the problem right is that the the most constrained people which are the lower class and That’s the better way to think about it the most constrained people their patterns don’t change much their implementation doesn’t change much and it really is the implementation change is that the the the middle class and the upper class and then the reason why that’s significant is because as the middle class becomes bigger The acceleration of history begins the acceleration of technology begins There’s a bunch of good stuff that comes from that obviously there’s a bunch of bad stuff that comes from that and right now we’re living in the punishment of that the the difference between Transmitting information via telegraph And transmitting it over the internet is actually Change wise not all that great because all you’ve actually changed is the amount of information that can be transferred You haven’t actually changed the nature of how we interact in the world You’ve only changed the amount of information And you can argue that changing the amount of information gives us different modes of interaction But the the the c change is the telegraph the c change is not the internet That the internet is inevitable once the telegraph is invented How long it takes is a function of a whole bunch of things, but once you go down that technological road And look the amish would would would recognize this differently. They’d say the problem is electricity And therefore and maybe they’re right about that like maybe that’s the branching point you need to worry about is when physical modes of work are replaced by technology Wholesale and that’s electricity then you have a corrupting problem that can’t be resolved. They might be right about that I have no idea. I hope they’re not because obviously I love more computers, but it’s crazy Go ahead, aiden We have an increase in Um Middle class, um intellectual or middle class brain power capital What are the implications of that? Well No, we’re seeing them. We’re we’re living in them for better for worse. Like I don’t know. Are we are we in hell? Like are we in the inferno or you? Where is that? Is that red? Is that what red it is? It’s uh leveraged midwit You know It’s not that easy, I mean you can’t divide it up that way Like we were talking about this earlier, right with china versus the u.s Why when you have hungrier people and more of them do you not get a better version of the u.s? It’s because there are different constraints for from the government in china and from the culture in china That don’t allow the thing that happened in the u.s to happen in china Like and nobody understands how many connections there are or how many constraints need to be removed or how they need to be handled differently and so you have This huge country an area with a tiny population relative to the world Driving everything in the world. Why because we’re able to leverage intelligence Native intelligence at any level in a highly efficient fashion because of What I would call uh low low constrained capitalism So capitalism is the thing that makes the u.s work Right the constraint that gets removed are the religious wars So we start out with religious wars that gets quickly removed when we get a common enemy In the united kingdom trying to take over Right and we get a common enemy in being a pawn to either england or france And when we figure that out and we decide we’re going to make our own destiny, right? So in some sense we actually shifted Away from manifest destiny Right and into self-determinant destiny Through manifest destiny And and that’s actually a big shift because now we’re saying we don’t want to be the puppets of england We don’t want to be associated with them. You know, we can’t escape our heritage We don’t want to be the pawns of france either. We don’t want to be in the middle of this great war Right, which is what the american rebellion was and then we are unleashing all of the greatest power and then You know the greatest concentration of wealth since the collapse The or the partial collapse I would say of of the say the east india con company Or the west india company for that matter, right once they collapsed The next biggest concentration of wealth if you want to think of it in terms of patterns is in the united states Right. That’s the so-called robber barons who are neither robbers nor barons. Uh, they were way better They were good people by and large. They did awesomely good things by and large that whole ethos Drives everything else for a long time afterwards And we don’t have an appreciation for that Right. We don’t we don’t really understand what’s happening there. We don’t get that this tiny by population country just Absolutely out competes all the other countries And not automatically like we and this is when people say the the you know, the u.s empire. I’m like Are you kidding me? We could control the whole world right now as a country tomorrow You’re ungrateful. We don’t do that. We could very easily But we are we’re not doing it and we could have done it at any time The thing that made us a force in world war one and world war two We could have pulled that trigger or flipped that switch anytime we wanted Our capability to do all those things never changed what changes is the telos The telos changes and then it’s like oh we have a reason to use our industrialization skill For military we never had that reason before it just wasn’t a concern We weren’t doing that. We weren’t playing that game. We could have had we been like, you know what? Europe has great empires and we’re gonna have a great empire, too We could have turned that switch years before we did decades before we did and taken all the colonies away from all the european countries And we never did We never did Which is you know, and you go oh mark now you’ve got guam and all these like, okay Those are defensive Cooperative pacts. They’re not even states in the united states. They’re territories You’ve got military bases in germany. Yeah, and without them germany is bankrupt, by the way Went over that earlier today. In fact, germany has no money We’re 21 or something percent of their economy our military and not not in You know direct military spending but also an indirect military spending Their gdp doesn’t run 25 over it runs 12 over Or something like that or it used to you take that 21 away and they’re running in the negative And now there’s no more eu because france can’t afford the portion their portion now much less their portion minus germany’s It’s all over Like and no one has any appreciation for this. So how did that happen? We took anybody who was in the country And allowed them to use whatever skills they had as efficiently as they were able And there are downsides to that for sure, but largely it’s been an upside for everybody Because we unleashed the potential because we didn’t have an arbitrary class system Our class system is a post-hoc How much money do you have system and you can change that very easily because capitalism because we have a largely unconstrained capitalism And that’s what capitalism does for you. It actually enables you to trade super efficiently With people who are working closer to their peak potential than they could work in any other economic system That’s actually really important and you can’t just transport Pockets of that as they did in china and expect the same result because it has to be democratized And with their government system, they can’t do that and fair enough But then they’re never going to be able to compete with us at that level Now they found a way to very efficiently compete with us for sure But we could just pull out of china tomorrow in terms of buying goods and they’d be screwed Can I uh slightly can you go back to what we were talking about before If there’s no follow up My mic, I think you know what? Maybe there’s a setting that automatically fluctuates, uh, in my lot right now. Yeah Yeah, because i’m like, yeah my operating system is changing my volume. So okay i’m gonna blame stream yard. Um There’s a social critic I think in the 70s all my settings Yeah, yeah There’s there was a social critic in the 70s called neil postman where he contrasted two dystopian books Uh george orville’s 1942 and alice huxley’s brave new world and this was I found this really interesting He put forth this idea called like the medium is the message talking about radio than television Basically how how the medium the how it shapes information and stuff so in 1984 or 42 whatever it is 84 Uh, it’s that you know, there’s those three warring countries and they’re at war but they’re in a stalemate And so everything in that in that dystopia Every everybody is controlled by lack the thought police sensor what information is right? Uh, and everybody’s everybody’s everybody’s Sorry, I see my volume keeps getting moved around. Um, the whole society is Yeah, sorry, i’m just gonna hold this in front of my face Yeah, it’s it It’s everywhere To figure this out Um, so in 1984 everybody’s controlled, but you know, they’ve got the big brother the thought police and everything And so philosophically it’s the problem the problem of pain, right? Is like well, how can there be a god if there’s so much evil and logically that’s a very simple question It’s just what what you mean by evil what yardstick are you using done? Okay now in in aldo huxley’s brave new world There’s an abundance of pleasure there’s so much pleasure everybody has access to everything Why get out of bed and do anything and so the other the other question is the problem of pleasure I remember and and and that’s actually a harder question because the problem of evil is a simple question It’s just what you mean, but the problem of pleasure is a much harder question That’s why I started thinking about that. I thought that was really interesting And so um, but yeah, but and then also that idea of the the meme is the message about you know, where are we going with with with You know technology these days Um, yeah, what do you guys think about that? Well, the medium the medium is the message is garbage I don’t know why it’s not obvious to everybody that A message doesn’t exist It’s an invalid way of thinking about the world Right. You can’t talk about a message independent of how it’s sent Because it’s embedded in the context of how it’s sent and therefore the idea that you can Separate the message from the medium and then understand something about the world is absurd. It’s already a non-starter And that’s the problem is that people are confused about that The dichotomy in the books, I think it’s a problem No, yeah, you’re a little low jesse no mcclellan mcclellan wouldn’t agree with me he’s wrong. It’s not hard. He’s just wrong It’s it’s obviously wrong. This is this is science. It’s like, you know what we’re gonna do We’re gonna carve up the world. We’re gonna say there’s a difference between the message and the medium No, there isn’t When you talk about a message It has to be embedded in a medium Like messages don’t exist outside their medium and therefore you can’t make that scientific distinction. It’s invalid In the same way that using the term modernity is invalid it’s an invalid mode of thought You cannot think about those things in that way in a useful fashion If you also like by way of example another it’s not a good way to think about the world. It doesn’t I believe neil postman is arguing what you’re arguing like by way of example recently Which I mean I do this all the time But if you want to kill or at least significantly reduce the hypnotic effect of social media like you said Yeah, you have to put your attention on it, but turn gray scale on your phone Problems, you know problem significantly reduced right? There’s an example of changing the medium and it also and it’s related to the message You haven’t changed. No, you haven’t changed the medium. You all you all you’ve done is change the presentation Well, what’s no, it’s maybe I mean we get the medium Oh, that’s not the see this is what i’m saying though. You can’t you can’t say there’s a there’s a medium There’s a message and that’s it. No, there isn’t. Oh, yeah, the color like That color is very significant. It’s not part of the medium that’s part of the presentation. The phone didn’t change dude Okay. Yeah, I see the method of transport didn’t change nothing Except the presentation how you interact with the object Right, which is presentation that presentation changed. What’s this thing you’re talking about? the and An app you install or yeah, yeah native to other developer options in android. This is native just gray scale just Yeah, you know developer options and then yeah Gray scale. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and what does that do? It makes everything gray just so it makes your phone less fun to use on your phone It makes your phone boring to use. Yeah, scroll your social media apps. Well, I don’t know you see it, but yeah Anything on a phone like no it controls the entire phone Yeah, it changes the presentation of the phone at the device level and so there’s no more color on your phone So it reduces the Yeah reduces the information you’re getting in by reducing the amount of colors Yeah, let’s go really just less shiny. It’s it’s not hard. It’s like, you know, shiny less shiny Yeah If you make it less shiny you you bring down you bring down the salience of the signal to use verveky terms Right the salience becomes less on your phone And so your phone becomes less relevant to you because there’s fewer connections because there’s fewer colors Is it? Oh, okay, right? You’re gonna do the same thing with silence. You silence your phone But my phone’s on silence anyway now, uh, it was was on silent before but 11 p.m My phone goes on silent if you send me a message, I probably won’t I won’t hear it I probably won’t notice because the phone won’t buzz or anything and You know, I have to manually look at it. Anybody send me a message. No, right? I know that works is you literally Turn your phone off and put it in another room. If you’re gonna do anything you literally have to like Physically disconnect yourself. I don’t have to I don’t I don’t have to I have no problem with this stuff I like I said, so so me me too. I’m dating emergence. It’s just they’re calling on you. Hey, Jesse Let’s go to audio Just go to settings audio automatically adjust mic volume uncheck that I just found here one to talk about mic volume Sorry guys, yeah uncheck the uncheck anything that automatically does anything automatic computers are dumb and they don’t work But but uh going back a little bit on the on the idea of pleasure like I I I find that I find that just Like I find that idea of pleasure Only for people that have time to do it, right? right, like I I don’t Take like yeah, even to think about pleasure, you know it because when you’re busy and you’re moving like it’s not But but this is but this is really the problem right as you go down the stack We’re talking about this with iq as you go down the stack to stupidity where you go down the stack to pain It’s the same for everybody Or it’s closer for everybody as you go up the stack to pleasure. It’s different for everybody And so you’re just trying to equate to things that are not equal like the opposite of pain is not pleasure It’s not there’s no opposite to pain. It doesn’t exist You’re creating false dichotomies. They’re not real. There are false dichotomies. We don’t live in a disenchanted binary world When you get stuck in binary thinking you get stuck with silly dystopian books like that. And look I liked 1984 I thought it was a great book, right? But there’s problems when you think about the world that way The world is not like that that is a an experiment of Basically Um, and again, they’re more like science fiction books, right? Like this is the thing there are experiments in philosophy Philosophy doesn’t represent the world we live in that is not the purpose of philosophy the purpose of philosophy is to highlight the universal qualities in in most cases of humans That that is the purpose of the republic It’s to say look at all these governments We can change the governments But here’s the thing that don’t change In other words for every change of government you have a different manifestation of people For every change so the people are still doing the peopling because people people that’s what they do. It’s annoying I wish they’d stop. I keep proposing this nobody nobody nobody likes the idea. I don’t know why right? It’s to highlight that fact It’s to highlight trade-offs. It’s to say if you want a society like this you get this right and you You don’t need any better example than athens and sparta Just look at athens and sparta like athens Has all kinds of weird problems that sparta never has and sparta has all kinds of weird problems that athens never has And they’re all caused by the same thing And that is people people or or if you want to compress people peopling into the into the proper frame muppets It’s the muppet problem But um there was a something that the uh I noticed this past week in which I shared with mark and that was that I was watching a film about this kid in netflix. It was just with the recent release about an elephant and in the film Uh, they they were they were using the the kid obviously the kid had to go through these trials I didn’t watch the whole thing because I found it. Uh, uh I already understood what they were trying to say trying to do but it was insightful because There’s this young kid who’s doing these very manly things But in order to do them he needs items, right? He cannot do it by himself. So Uh, they challenge him. He’s getting challenged all the time. Oh a boy cannot fly So what does he do? He goes home and then he starts building a plane and then even his grandparents, you know His grandfather tells him no, you can’t do that. You don’t understand people cannot fly so he’s standing there and in and basically trying to build this thing and eventually he you know, he built it but The it seems like for a very long time. We’ve been we’ve been talking about stories Where whatever you create is going to solve the problem? While fairy tales are talking about you like What happens to you when you break this moral code or what happens to you when you when you ethically act and behave incorrectly? Right. So the kid was being prideful in that film, but they never showed what happened to the kid when he was being prideful They just showed how successful he was able to be using his his willpower and his intelligence and and we’ve been We’ve been telling that story for quite some time Yeah, that’s that’s genesis three right there. It’s Forbidden fruit. Well, that’s a good that’s a good point right is contrasting the idea of The triumph of the sole individual through his will very very Nietzsche like thing right to transcend self Transform and transcend the constraints of the world around them Right whereas fairy tales are designed to show you the constraints of the world and which ones cannot be violated And we get confused as benjamin franklin did earlier with there are some rules And I would call them laws that cannot be broken like gravity Right. That doesn’t mean you can’t get around now There are alternatives to being subject to them, but there’s a cost to that That’s why it’s a constraint Constraints imply cost you get around constraints some of them you can you can try to invoke the spirit Of the postmoderns, but it keeps splitting apart, right? You can try to invoke the spirit of protestantism, but it keeps splitting apart Protestant churches don’t stay intact for any length of time not even one generation Most protestant churches don’t last with the same ethos for one generation. They split apart Right and there are some exceptions. I think the amish might be an exception for example But largely the whole denomination actually changes because there’s no higher larger container to keep them the same Over generations and so over generations, they don’t last Right and and some parts of them stay intact, but there’s different emphases and the different changes and there’s all kinds of problems that happen as a result And that’s what people aren’t recognizing is that you can try to raise that spirit to do a seance and raise that spirit The spirit of socrates right to say after the socrates Come to us socrates rise from the dead and be born into the skeptic cynicism So that we can know you yeah a strength though. I’m missing a string Yeah, well you’re missing all the strength you can do that And if enough people do it, it will kind of work for a while It will end in tears doom death and destruction But you can you know, you can you can engage in that and and look I mean i’ve i’ve studied the occult There’s a there there Don’t go there It’s not good Yeah, and it looks good. It looks real good You know, I gudu works like there’s lots of documentation on this stuff The problem is that it doesn’t do your bidding And it seems to like it’ll try to do your bidding It’ll look like it’s doing your bidding until it’s not and then you’re paying a price and that’s where the constraints come in Right. This is why the devil in the stories always You know signs a contract and then people are always trying to get around the contract It’s like well, there are constraints though, and some of the constraints are hard constraints and you’re going to pay with your soul And you know look if that’s worth it to you that’s worth it to you But yeah, I think dante has a thing to to say about that and uh, You might want to consider what he has to say about it because it might be really important You know, it might be that if you violate one of these Uh laws around say the treatment of people that you are haunted by that for the rest of your life That’s the story of scrooge right? Like that’s that’s evanine scrooge. That’s what it was. He was haunted by ghosts And It’s just low it’s just low yeah Two points a game Yeah, cuphead is really good Like uh, they have uh, I think on netflix they have cuphead the game And uh, they have a mini series and it’s pretty good The meme master himself, I love it And confirm Oh my god, how is this that’s better Well, i’m going to bid my good night to all of you And uh, it was nice joining i’m glad to see andre And it was really nice to see all of you again. We’re gonna finish your thought. What were you saying? Take care Of you I have more of these that was funny. Oh gosh Uh, yeah, you can show another one for danny so he can laugh some more Where are they He doesn’t hang out on our server enough to see all your heretical memes I don’t generally tend to read a lot of things either. You know, but yeah, I know but But the heretical memes channel is fantastic though. I know Is it called the texas wisdom community is that what i’m I put the link in it’s in there twice now. How many times do I have to put it in for you? I’m a muppet I noticed I noticed that you were a muppet Prince of muppets, so there it’s in the private chat. You happy now? Yes in nine hours we’re going through book two I’m gonna wake up in about six hours and read it in nine hours. Yeah, i’ve got to i’ve got to find a way in nine hours Yeah, we all finished reading book two It’s a tense conversation today i’ve seen oh I love I love this one classic that’s one of my favorites It’s I also have that one with uh as neo-platinism Oh, yeah. Yeah, that’s a good end, too We could put it as uh, what do you think jesse if you’re gonna leave tell us uh, give us some parting thoughts before you go Give me a minute to see if I can take your time. Just don’t leave without some parting thoughts. Okay Okay, there we go It’s a seance all verveky’s stuff just sounds like a seance we’re gonna get together in a circle We’re all going to be equal. We’re going to say some magic words and invoke the spirit of the author really john That’s what you’re going to do Did you did you just exactly describe a seance and nothing else because you just exactly described a seance and nothing else? very scary I Philosophical fellowship that’s the way two of the attendees described it on the video you can watch the video And then john was like, oh we’re gonna be careful with this oops too bad too late they said it it’s on it’s on video now, buddy Okay. Well, maybe i’ll end on this Which I already tested today, which was great. So I had the idea of linking the the gala galileo’s idea of an interesting phenomenon and coming up with the scientific framing That’s the same thing as the matrix the matrix has that idea has the idea of the blank slate When they tell when neo gets reborn into the sewer world the sewer world into his new sewer rat family Right It’s all my document. I’ll send it to you. Yeah. Yeah, I want to see it. Yeah Yeah, he’s also joining a terrorist organization by the way, it’s they tell you in the movie he’s so yeah There’s a way to read the movie which we can’t talk about online, but it’s very interesting. Um One of the most dangerous ideas in the movie is the fact that when they tell him what the matrix he Is he’s in a white room. He’s in the blank slate That’s the galileo revolution. Everything is now equal. We’ll flatten the world out We’ll take you out of it and we’ll teach you how to Away the same imagery happens in the movie where neo is shown that he’s waking up as a battery in the matrix and then later on the movie they Just show all these guns appearing out of nowhere as weapons of energy appear. It’s the same thing they just Stracted out of nowhere. It’s just and then we can just bring this nowhere information to somewhere else So the matrix in itself is that white room is the construct? Yeah, there’s the idea that you believe in the matrix makes the matrix happen Like the matrix needs you to believe in it. I think I said the other day in order for the matrix to exist Yeah That’s your that’s your little live connection you just made that connection just now I’ve been i’m playing with it in my head. It’s just it’s just trying to get the right words in the right order in the right Paragraph, but yeah, I am it was half half ad hoc Previously the cost of admission that one. Okay. Yes, that’s that’s fine. Oh, well, wait, wait Are we doing this a live stream or what are we doing? Jesse? My idea was like kind of do like 50 50 But depends on how much how much we want to cover because you could go in all sorts of strange directions with that film Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean we could we could do very high level Right subvert the subversion and but a bit. Yeah, I mean if you want to do it half and half, that’s fine And we don’t have to do this time slot. We could do any time slot that works for both of us But yeah, all right, we can we can do that and then people can jump in and ask questions That would make that be good like for after Because we want people to participate and obviously the more people that participate the better questions we see in the morning We’ll do an announcement a week in advance then and whenever we get this ready because it’s going to take some work Yeah, we’ll see we’ll see where it ends and uh Yeah, we’ll see we’ll see how far we can get because uh, because yeah, I think that would be well worth it There’ll be a lot of fun because yeah There’s so many angles in the matrix that you can just go on and on and on and the black I like We’re rats. That’s that’s really good. That’s way better. That’s literally because you pointed out the other day They’re in the sewers of the dead city. Am I okay? So what are they then? They’re not even in a dead city They’re in the sewers with it. It’s like wow Well, then the desert of the real is also what they say welcome to the desert of the real Of the real yeah, that was great. That was great I have so nihilistic. It’s like wow, there’s some heavy nihilism reality is a desert Only macaroni so we need the construct to give us the power the will to power So we can go in and overthrow the system and rebel against the system that we created because we’re literally powering it Actually In new becomes in one neo becomes agent smith by the end of the film. That’s that’s my essential thesis Yes, and then you have agent smith comes back in a different emergence, right? And then it’s a war between who is the most agency inside of the construct the matrix, right? Right. Well, when you start talking about it in terms of agency, it flips the whole meaning of the film. Yeah Well, he tells you like he gives you these little manifests or the end i’m gonna save everyone i’m gonna tell them I’m gonna show them what they’re really gonna do. What’s the next thing in the movie? Nah, not not interested in that gonna do something else now. Well, it’s gonna find the key master, you know, is this gnostic? It’s it’s actually the movies more I’m gonna tell them i’m gonna tell them to give them the secret information Yeah, whatever you’re gonna give them the secret knowledge, huh? It’s not A master is pure gnosticism. It’s great. I love it. There’s also this idea too that um In that spiel right when he is being reeducated Yeah, it is that like you have to see it as that he’s being reborn and then he’s reeducated. They’re like, oh, sorry. This is too much One free end after a certain age you’re like these little lines that like if you kind of Interpret what the movie says back to front those little lines start to stick out in a very different manner Like, you know, the biggest thing is okay. How does the film end the film ends in system failure? I’m going to leave the voice message to save the earth I’m going to fly away and become agent smith now because all the agents are wearing glasses and it’s a big deal when agent smith takes off his glasses and at the end of the Film new puts on the glasses and he flies away as the ultimate act of freedom He’s actually rebelling against his own system creation. It’s another way system failure, um But the film ends on wake up by raging against the machine and that whole film is about bringing down That whole song is about bringing down the system Right, right. Well, it’s the idea that he’s bringing the knowledge and that he’s a super agent because he can fly like superman Yeah, and the whole ubermensch thing is right in there and yeah sign Right. Well, it’s it’s very I’m a westerner of we’ll say Little slightly above average iq who read a little too much philosophy and didn’t understand any of it I mean, it’s very much that And it very much carries people in that direction And and the storytelling is so good except for the subversion points that you don’t even notice You don’t even notice the subversion Yeah Don’t forget about the the whole uh, no know thyself thing that was in there. Oh, yeah If I if I get you to believe in the lie, it’ll get you to enact your true self upon the world If you believe you’re not the one you’ll become the one like these everything everything you need Like the seed is in you and once you know thyself once you’ve gnosticized Right All of a sudden you can fly you can you can be the one you can right once you by yourself engage with yourself Your true self right in pure nature in the construct you will emerge As oh, yeah, it just goes on and on and on doesn’t uh, um, i’m sorry Doesn’t for vicki have that tattooed on his body somewhere? I think he does Oh, man, it’s all emergence. It’s all the merge people that just turns into his own meme Pretty much. Oh here. I got this one. Oh, yeah put that up He’s just it’s too easy it’s like um, like him and dennis brager they’re just they’re just endless amusement for me Yeah, they’re easy targets Is the jazz prager thing just an american phenomenon? I don’t know is it is it like is it as an easy popular? Mainly the american spheres. Yeah, probably. Okay Yeah, well, he’s he’s jewish or at least nominally jewish or something and okay. We don’t even know what he is because Well, but we know that but he tends to pretend to be jewish and he knows hebrew He’s a sola sola prager kind of jewish guy. Oh So he’s a pro I have heard this from me the protestant jew You gotta jesse you gotta come on the uh on the uh mark of wisdom server You can see all of these excellent memes in the heretical memes channel. It’s fantastic I’ll have a look into it. Yeah, and then and then Yeah, the thing with braggers started bragger you which is you know, five minute videos to educate you which is foolishness It’s crazy talk and I like prager you like i’m not denigrating for you I’m denigrating the idea that you can educate somebody in five minutes about something. That’s that’s dumb Um, you can you can inform them of something but you can’t educate them or give them knowledge in that kind of time That’s insane Um, but then he’s also got his radio show that’s been going on forever. It’s very popular conservative with a flavor of liberalism sprinkled throughout That is very liberating to people Even if it leads down the road of not understanding agency time energy and attention As the important components rather than the manifestation of your time energy and attention, which is your action action comes after those first three things And that’s what happens when you have a complex model of the of the world like the world is very simple It doesn’t reduce the number of problems because those aren’t changing right? But it does allow you to understand where they are so that you can approach them in a more intelligent and careful fashion And that’s what’s important Right because we’re always trying to over reduce and remove the business model Because we’re always trying to over reduce and remove the this is one of her vikings great points We’re always trying to over reduce and remove problems and there are problems that cannot be removed. He calls them perennial problems fair enough Um, but also the problem is we’re trying to over reduce All right, god bless nice to see you all take care See jesse see some thanks What you got for us dan you get anything Can you have a church without or uh, what did you say? It’s the uh, greatest achieving a western man Cathedral, can you have a cathedral without music inside of it? Of course you can You can The cathedral comes first Before the cathedral’s finished There’s no music. Well, i’m just wondering what people can you can you have can you sustain the You know my my uh, I had a friend of mine he he married this girl from québec up in québec they have these ginormous beautiful, uh Out in these I don’t know what these towns are but they’re like these these towns on the outskirts of i don’t know I have to remember where his wife is from Like a shame. I can’t remember but they have like there’s you can buy like this giant castle basically Or it’s like a it’s all cathedral for like two million dollars because all the people left You know, so like I mean if all if all the people leave the city uh I mean that happened Can you can you keep a can you keep a cathedral alive if you’re not playing music or I don’t know That’s just a question. No, because we can of course not because the cathedral’s not Cathedral’s not a building. That’s not what it is And is music an integral part to No, I don’t think it’s an integral part you don’t think so. Okay. No, but it’s Is A cathedral still a cathedral if it never has music in it might be the question you’re struggling with And that’s a harder question to answer. I would say maybe Right because the cathedral is a container that facilitates the worship To something higher by definition like it doesn’t So can the part of it is like is what’s most vital like what what what what brings people online? What gets people to wake up right? Well, it gets people’s passions not nothing. No, that’s the wrong No, you’ve got causality backwards The passion comes first and that builds the cathedral the cathedral keeps the passion alive By containing it within the building I can see how I mean, yeah, you could you could you could frame it that way and that makes sense So you have to frame it that way because that’s the way it happens in real time You always get confused about real time real time and people go like this. They go well You know why people didn’t watch your video Right because in your video you did this or didn’t do that That cannot be the reason why people did not watch my video Because had they seen that they would have watched my video The reason why people don’t watch your video cannot have anything to do with the content of the video It has everything to do with the thumbnail and the text because That’s what attracts their attention to watch the video the watching comes after The content is not watched until Somebody gets attracted to it You can’t say nobody watched your video because in your video you did x that doesn’t make any sense They wouldn’t have that information unless they had watched it and therefore the watching has already happened And this is why sequence matters a lot um, right so We could say there’s a cathedral and there’s no singing in it ever and One might say Well, they never sing in that cathedral. So, you know people don’t attend They they don’t attend mass in that they might say that The real question is is why isn’t there singing in the cathedral? Right, right. Well, look, I mean I I singing is a second order effect well, right the the the It’s it’s an affordance that’s made by the presence of the cathedral The singing inside and singing outside are different Right and because you can sing outside anywhere Right, but you can only sing in the cathedral in the cathedral and so that makes a difference And then the cathedral is pointed towards the highest so that makes a difference And then when you’re in the cathedral, you’re supposed to be imbued with pointing to the highest so that makes a difference Right all these things make a difference Now the question is can you have a cathedral without singing the answer might be yes But should you the answer might be no because it’s incomplete Because it’s incomplete But the question is how many properties of? Things that are enabled by the container does the container need to survive? That I I don’t even think that’s the right way to think about it Because the the the point is the spirit is the spirit there Right is the quality of the spirit present in the building then that’s what I was saying it’s um The fact that there’s people not singing could be an indication of a lack of spirit It could be right, but that doesn’t mean anything about the cathedral Right, like I mean when I was in college, right? Like I mean I was did a bunch of stuff with this with this campus ministry And you know, we would meet in this beat up building and we would you know The most my most best memories that I have of all my college experience sometimes would be just singing You know like just vocals maybe even you know, just and that that tight knit group of people really that’s what it was It’s a real solid group of tight knit people Uh, you know, and I think I mean that’s that’s really like some of some of my fondest memories from all of my college experience To be honest Um, that’s the intimacy in the spirit Are you? Just like danny no You’re with the docs no Oh, now he’s one of the witches we have to burn No, i’m not i’m not like danny. We like danny until he was a protestant and we’re like Well, I was gonna ask you and I mean have you listened to any of um Um, there’s a lot of good There’s a lot of good masses out there by classical composers that are worth listening to us Haydn has a a fair amount of them. So does Mozart Um, Beethoven has a pretty epic mass If you’re really into the music You should check those out Yeah, there’s your there’s your portable cathedral, right? That’s what that you can There’s some uh, there’s like a there’s there’s a video on youtube. I think you can look at a Performance there’s multiple multiple ones um But there there’s there’s one that you can that I was watching in a bavarian cathedral and it was lennard bernstein that was performing a Haydn mass and uh they interviewed him before they performed it and he was talking about the the architecture of the Of the cathedral and it was originally premiered in that cathedral. Well, it wasn’t a cathedral as a basilica I’m, not sure what exactly what the difference is Um, but it was originally premiered in that um that basilica and Bernstein was talking about how the architecture matches the music, you know, it was written for that For that basilica So yeah, oops lost my camera but you’re so you’re listening to the music the whole time and looking at and the cameras panning around and showing you all the Architecture and artwork of the of the cathedral. That’s really cool. It fits together But also you can I mean sally joe was talking about art and proper art needs to point out And and so when you have proper music pointing up You’re taking a piece of the cathedral with you in essence when you’re playing that recording You’re also losing the intimacy of being there while they’re playing it live right in the in the cathedral And the place you go is the cathedral like that you want to point up in the place that points up With the people playing the music that points up while you’re pointing up in the liturgy like yeah Okay, that sounds very fractal Engagement like that sounds important. Yeah, and that’s that’s the nature of intimate participation with the spirit There there’s a I found a performance of another hiding mass that was performed in the original, um the original church or cathedral that it was premiered in And they were actually having services during the mass like the the musicians were up in the The balcony or whatever it was called and they were performing It was so frustrating because they in between each little section of music they it would Pan over to the priests and show what they’re doing But then it would cut and somebody had edited it out and you couldn’t see what was going on. So it just Go to the next it would just cut to the next Uh performance, you know, I was like wait Scientific arbitrary Carving up of the world’s very postmodern, which is not it’s the postmodern ethos is older than the postmoderns Hasn’t hasn’t changed much since Galileo Right this arbitrary well, we’re gonna just move the center of the world from the conscious agents Which we’re now trying to move it back to to the sun And it’s no it’s no coincidence in my opinion That the nihilists will point to the heat death of of the universe, right or the expansion of the sun As the end of the world and then you have the Galilean revolution before this What kills us is not the thing on earth. It’s the thing that’s at the center of the of the solar system, which is the sun Right when in fact what will kill us is the thing on earth and that’s what we should be pointed at That’s why the earth has to be the center of the universe Because it is to us from our perspective the center And we can without the help of the sun Wipe ourselves out I I agree with that to some extent and so that’s why we need to stop paying attention to the sun of the center and start The sun of the center and start paying attention to the to us on the earth at the center. Yeah What was the thrust of the impact of the galilean revolution so I wouldn’t he when jesse was talking about I was thinking about well What if i’m just a map maker? I mean, that’s just the representation. I just drawn, you know representation What’s what’s the difference between map and the stars? And insane. Uh, I mean, I guess obviously the whole sun at the center of the solar system thing That’s a key difference. I guess right I mean From a map maker. Oh, okay. It’s a change in mathematics Well, how are maps have you seen old maps how are maps written back? totally differently The represent it’s not like maps are not a static thing like What are you mapping and why? There’s mercator projections and there’s globe. All right, so that’s that’s the question, right? So what is what’s the thrust or what’s the thing about the galilean? Revolution, I guess I just didn’t maybe change to the From the earth at the center to the sun at the center And the purpose of that is to make the mathematics easier for astronomy for Really astrology at that point And so the math gets easier to calculate the movement of mars Yeah Right, that’s that’s what happens. It’s not it’s not that the math wasn’t precise enough before it was just harder to do So just heliocentrism It was heliocentrism Changes the way we think about the world and interact with the world Okay, because consciousness Which I would argue is actually just souls what they’re really talking about is no longer at the center of the universe But in fact if you read any of the of the wisdom texts We are at the center of the universe Creation the story of creation whether it’s in the bag of agita or the bible or any other book is centered around us human beings It’s not centered around dogs or pigs or cows or plants or earth It’s centered around us That’s why there’s a battle with Galileo Nobody thought he was wrong The church didn’t even tell him to stop doing what he was doing. You know, I understand The only reason he was able to do any of that is because of the church He wasn’t not embedded in the church that didn’t happen He was on church grounds. He was in a church building like he lived You know at the pleasure of the catholic church like it wasn’t a battle the way people cast it about Galileo How he was persecuted by the church and it’s just awful And then you read about it. It’s like he was on glorified house arrest Well, and that argument was over whether or not he should be teaching this stuff and writing about it and disseminating The argument was never don’t do your science. That was never the argument It was about the control of the flow of information Because there are people who when you tell them the sun the center of the universe become nihilistic automatically Because they don’t have a frame that’s intimate That they can use and they’re just not smart enough to and look That’s not an iq problem Sam harris has that problem Maybe it’s not a matter of smartness or not. It’s just they weren’t They they were they weren’t ready for it. It’s like you have somebody that’s specialized and it’s like You’re right. It’s exactly like iq iq it has a specific purpose and it helps people that are um, uh Psychologists or or what do you call them the scientists that study that type of thing probably psychologists, right? Um, yeah, well I would I would say iq is a useless measure of anything Okay, whatever stuff that jordan peterson was doing in his lab. Whatever. I mean, maybe it has some sort of use for him Maybe i don’t know but taking that out and And giving that to the public or like his his stupid big five personality trait thing that he’s marketing on facebook and stuff Like that’s bullshit You know like people don’t need that like they’re identifying With personality information it’s more information, but it doesn’t leave you a solution Right, right. I like this because my personality trait is x. It’s like Okay and It it’s helpful when you’re studying certain like as a social scientist it might help you for something But for the general population that I mean that is not stuff that they need like they don’t need to be Well, it’s not it’s not that they don’t need it it’s that they can’t use it and when you point at it they try Bad things happen. So do we go all the way to auto theism? I don’t even know what that is um Sounds like bad framing I’ve never heard of auto theism. No, we we go back to the thing that worked for thousands of years Yeah, I don’t even I don’t even at a certain point you just it boggles the mind It’s like we had a solution that solution works fine and it’s still valid Why are we making a change again? I’m a little confused like like like Google assistant worked and now it doesn’t Why did you update it and break it? Why why did you do this? It doesn’t work It doesn’t work doesn’t function at all, but like When I asked it before To do well, first of all when I talked to it It didn’t put a button on the screen and then make me hit a bunch of buttons and agreements that that’s handy Because it’s for talking doesn’t have another purpose or it shouldn’t have another purpose And then when I ask it to play Led Zeppelin it plays The album Led Zeppelin, which is non-existent when before it would ask me it would say hey Did you mean the album? What did you mean the band? Which again is invalid because there isn’t an album called Led Zeppelin and therefore it should have asked a much better question But it didn’t it just started playing it It broke it didn’t used to do that until that particular update I don’t know what else to say like it broke they broke it. Why did they change it? I don’t understand If you’ve got something that works, why are you messing with it? Can good come from that? I don’t think so. I think you’re more likely with more changes to make more bugs mathematically It’s a math problem It’s not a it’s not a iq problem. It’s not like well if every programmer has 160 iq They’ll never make an error when doing a release. That’s never gonna happen. You do more releases you get more bugs. It’s not hard Slow the rate of change You can you don’t necessarily but you can decrease the number of bugs in your software And to solve for changes left often so you’ll know how to use it longer wouldn’t that be handy? You can go back there’s no problem going we go back all the time Well, I made a bad decision. Well, I won’t do that again. Isn’t that going back to your former way of making a decision? Yeah, pretty much We go back all the time you need to go back you can’t keep going forward at all costs that’s insane Do you understand that’s what you’re doing? Do you understand the trade-offs? Do you understand what it costs you to leave the matrix? Are you sure you want to live in the you know being chased around on a dirty metal submarine which a bunch of misfits Being hunted as as terrorists because you are In the in the sewers of a dead city It’s not even a dead city you’re in the sewers of the dead city You’re not even you don’t even rise to the occasion of being in the dead city Which is in the dead the dead city is located in the desert of the real So you’re in the desert of the real but you’re not even in the desert You’re in the dead city and you’re not even in the dead city You’re in the sewers of the dead city and you’re being chased by these slick awesome some powerful machines in a Scuzzy submarine with a bunch of people you’re not related to and have never really met before and don’t really know, and you’re eating snot that doesn’t taste like anything. Are you sure that’s what you wanna do? It’s so funny. The Matrix is like a very, it’s like a negative, like a complete inversion of reality. And yet it’s an accurate description of how you have to live to be an individual. You’re still not an individual. Neo is heavily reliant on all of the other people on that hovercraft. He’s heavily reliant on the technology located within that hovercraft. They weren’t even able to do that because they didn’t make the individualistic lifestyle glorious. Oh, you can’t. No, you can’t. It’s accurate. It’s inaccurate. They try to make it glamorous, but it’s not glamorous. It’s accurate. Because the spirit emerges and the spirit of evil is there. The evil is living in the sewers of a dead city in a grubby submarine, surrounded by people you know nothing about and are not related to, a band of misfits who you are totally reliant on, by the way, to do all the things you do. All of them. All the things. And so you’re not an individual. Trying to be an individual, the cost is high because you can’t even eat steak. To me, that’s like death. Like if a children couldn’t eat steak, I’d be like, well, no point. I’m gone. See you later, bye. I love steak. I love steak. Steak is awesome. So why? Why would you do that? It’s a bad trade. It’s stupid. Like why not cooperate with everybody and live in a near utopia? Like, you know, and they deal with it in the movie explicitly. And yet it’s still better to live inside the Matrix by any account. Are you a battery? Are you providing the energy to run the Matrix? Yes, you are. It’s called time, energy, and attention. Are you participating in the Matrix? Yes, you are. It’s called time, energy, and attention. Are you trapped in the Matrix? Yeah, you were trapped the minute you were born, buddy. I hate to break it to you. That happened already. You should start evangelizing with that slogan, join the Matrix. You know, I know the steak doesn’t exist, except it does. Yeah, you know what I like? I never heard, Jesse said, T-Lost confirmed. I’d never heard that one before. Is that a, I like that one though. You like T-Lost confirmed? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you can try to get around it, right? But a good story cannot have no T-Lost. It can’t be a good story and have no T-Lost. And I think this is what I was pointing to, right? Like you can try to write a good story about individualism, but when you look at the story, you will find out it’s a terrible trade-off and a bad story. And you can say the steak doesn’t exist, but tell me how the guns exist anymore. Tell me how anything exists in the Matrix when it’s a blank slate and a white room. Go ahead, explain it to me. I’ll wait here while you’re unable to do so. In the Matrix, nothing exists. It’s a nihilistic movie because it tries to talk about individualism. Individualism doesn’t exist. It’s not a state that anybody can inhabit ever. You are embedded in a creation, in nature. That happened to you already. Maybe you had no choice about it. Maybe Sam Harris is right about that, although there’s no way to prove it. But it’s already not the state. It’s already prevented from being. Oh yeah, I know the quote. I know the quote well. I know that whole section of all those quotes. I can quote most of that movie if I’m feeling better and in the right frame. And that’s the problem though. When you really think about the message of the movie, even though they try to make it glamorous, it doesn’t work. It comes out as a bad trait if you think about it correctly. And the trick is in the postmodern world, they fool you by telling you, no, no, no, we’re not giving you any framing. It’s a blank slate. There’s no state of that. There’s no state of blank slate. Ignorance is bliss is just the Gnosticism coming to fore. I have the knowledge. I’m gonna give it to them. I’m gonna tell them the truth. And when I tell them the truth, they’ll be free of the bad God. It’s Gnosticism. Sorry, Ethan, go ahead. I was gonna say it’s almost like, Cypher is almost like a hero, but he’s not for that reason because his telos or his drive, I don’t like using that word in this way, telos, but his purpose is hedonism, is hedonic in nature. Right, well, that’s one of the subversion points. He doesn’t get plugged back into the matrix to struggle his way back up to the top and make a life for himself. He only wants to be plugged into the matrix if he can be semi-famous, like an actor. I don’t wanna be famous. I just wanna be well enough known, right? Like an actor or something, right? Like I don’t wanna be a superstar. I just wanna live a comfortable upper-class life that’s not in the spotlight. And so he’s choosing his own set of relationships within the matrix and saying, I just want to be plugged into that. I want my intimacy delivered this way with these check marks and no other way. And that’s not how anything in the creation that we’re stuck in works. That we’re stuck. Oh, look, I mean, if you’re gonna run around feeling as though the Gnostic evil God has stuck you somewhere, then yeah, you’re stuck in the creation, but you’re not gonna overthrow the evil God because it’s a God, you muppet. What are you even thinking? Why are you thinking this is even a possibility for you? You didn’t even control the condition of your own birth, you idiot. Where are you going? What are you doing? Why are you trying this? What is wrong with you? Like, are you okay? That’s why I ask people on Twitter, are you okay? Because they’re not, they’re not okay. You can tell, their framing is so off from reality that it’s like, you’re way out there, dude. You’re not seeing the world clearly at all. You’re not okay. That’s what I’m saying when I ask that. I’m calling negative attention to their tweet because they’re not okay. What they’re saying is not okay. And that’s important, it’s important to know that. It’s also important to say, can confirm, right? When someone makes a good point, you should confirm it, or you should say, that’s a really good point. You shouldn’t just like it, that’s great, and that’s important, but you should confirm it. I place a heart on questions that I think are bad. Well, it’s part of the contrast and the highlight. Yeah, I was gonna say, Mark, if you get a little exhausted, if your eyes get a little exhausted from reading, you should check out that Spotify enactment of the Republic. You might like it. I think they did a really good job. No, I can’t listen to books, that doesn’t work. My retention level’s zero. Your what? My retention level on listening to texts is like zero. But you watch- Ethan, I would definitely like it. If you start on Discord, I’ll check it out. But you’ll listen to videos, though? I have to sit at the computer and take notes. Dude, you should see my notes file. Like, you guys get no idea. You think I’m just doing this all up top of my head, I have to take notes. Maybe you should take notes. I have to take notes. Maybe you should try it, because they adapted it to a pseudo play type of thing, as if it were a real dialogue. They have different people playing the different characters. That’s what I’ve been listening to. There’s no such thing as a birth lottery. That’s just bad framing, and people who talk like that should be burned at the stake as witches. No, nothing underlines, no, no. Existence of the so-called birth lottery framing is materialism, like that’s what it is. Yes, materialism can’t explain something, so it puts a garbage label on it, like birth lottery, and tries to shove it down your throat, or maybe the other way around. And don’t fall for these postmodern absurdities. They are evil, and I recommend avoiding evil. You don’t have to, that’s my recommendation. No, Ethan, I need to just sit down with the book. I was happy outside in the 85 degree weather today, just reading, but I don’t know what happened. I got sick, and I had to get in, and it was a rush to get to bed before I just conked out, but then I did. I’m getting tired, I don’t know about you guys, but. Yeah, you wanna wrap it up? I wanna take this, no. Would you agree that viewing power relations as fundamentally real is a big issue today? Yes, the conception of power is wrong, and creation, that’s it. You were created in a creation, you don’t need that. Yeah, don’t pay attention to power ever. They don’t have a good definition of power. Power is time, energy, and attention. Power literally only exists as a function of agents, and the only agents in the world, unless you’re a Christian, you’re one extra agent, are people, persons, persons are agents. You know what else is an agent? Nothing, nothing, unless you’re a Christian, in which case God is an agent, we can talk about Calvinism, whatever. But on that note, I do wanna wrap it up, because I’m fading fast too, and Danny and I both have book three. Danny, why don’t you give us your closing things, and then we’ll move to Ethan’s closing, closing whatever. Closing things. Oh, that’s tough, because the agregores and spirits are, I don’t know if I can do it, I don’t know if I have any closing thoughts off the top of my head. You don’t have to have to do anything in particular. So, okay, I mean, well, again, there’s a lot of experimental things. I just discovered Carl Jung’s Red Book. I don’t know if you’ve heard of that, and- Oh, yeah. One thing I learned, I just learned yesterday, last night, that Carl Jung was a bodybuilder, right? He was a mystic, and so I’ve been really thinking about vitality in the physical, and basically grounding things out in the physical, and like I said, I’ve kind of, there’s some things that I don’t know, I don’t wanna talk about live. You know, you may be aware of them, but some of them, at least, not only a few of them, but just learning about how Carl Jung kinda went into the depths of psychology. I just added, that’s a new thing. Oh, well, but the pattern that I’ve observed lately is the fact that he was a bodybuilder, I just found was interesting. You know, I just was like, hmm, that’s, I don’t know. I wanna explore that more. So cool, that’s great. Yeah, we’ll have to chat. Well, you know my Discord server. We’ll chat on the Discord server, maybe after the book club tomorrow or something about what you learned about Carl Jung, that’s interesting. So I’m still learning, so, but yeah, nothing real, all closing thoughts, but- That’s fine, those are closing thoughts. I’m happy with that. We can move on to Ethan. Ethan, what you got for closing thoughts before we close out this train? So real quick back on the Galileo, it kinda circles back to what Danny was saying with the Republic, how you can take things out of context. What the church was saying is like, yeah, you’re saying that the sun is at the center of the universe, but they’re not gonna know, they’re not gonna understand that the way that you understand that. You can’t just pass that out to people. It’s going to disrupt the order, so that’s why we can’t have you saying that. It’s forbidden knowledge, it’s forbidden knowledge. That’s like, that whole thing over and over again. We’re reliving that story. That story, it’s eternally true, right? That means that it’s always true and it’s always happening. The egregores and spirits, yeah. So we are the Muppets of angels. We are but Muppets of angels, whether they’re fallen or not fallen. We’re always giving our attention to something and that something is always being embodied. We’re agents, that’s what it means to be human, is we’re agents, we cultivate creation. So we’re giving our attention up to something, some principality. I don’t know where this is at in the Bible, but it seems like there would be more fallen angels than there are angels, because there’s an infinite amount of ways to do something wrong. There’s only one way to do something right. So it’s very scary. So it’s like, what are you giving your attention to? What’s embodying? And you, I mean, you can argue maybe when you’re sleeping, your attention is compromised. I don’t know about that, but to say the least, when you’re awake, you’re always giving your attention to something and you’re always embodying something. Wow, well, that’s an excellent summary. This is why we keep Ethan around. That was excellent. I like this. Maybe reality is the cultivation of creation. Maybe that’s the succinct definition of reality that I’ve been searching for. So that’s my point. Oh yeah, what was Adam tasked with when he was placed in the garden? He was there to- Name the animals. I can’t remember, there’s a couple of verses that says that everything was created, but there was no one to till the earth. Right, to cultivate. Really, really, really old, like Genesis two or something like that, really old stuff. It says that it was created, but there’s no man there to till the earth. Right. No, that’s good. That’s actually a really good summary. And what, you know, we’re muppets, right? We’re the muppets that are being driven by the angels, fallen or not. You can actually read it. I think there’s a different way to reading it too. It’s the same thing though. Like you actually look at it as the angels are the servants of man, actually. And we’re actually using the higher principalities to cultivate the higher order. I mean, it’s ultimately- Well, that’s what the rebellion was all about. You think that they’re better than us, that they’re constrained in materiality and we’re not. Fair enough. Yeah, I mean, to some extent we are, because we can create reality and they can’t create it. They can only manipulate those that create it. And so that’s the fundamental difference. So yeah, I think that’s a good summary. So let’s shut the stream down. I can’t summarize better than Ethan on that front. And you know, like I really appreciate everybody who’s giving your time, energy and attention to my nearly seven hour live stream in this case. And, you know, engage with the videos on navigating patterns. And yeah, fun times. Thank you all very much and have a lovely night. Hope to see you at the book club on the Texas wisdom community channel that I posted earlier.