https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=1_9waQuaS90
But anyways, thanks for watching! Sunday everybody and if you’re here then you are here. We’re being joined by Sunday Night Regular Andrew. How you doing Andrew? Hello there. I’m doing well. How are you? Doing great. Doing great. It is a new year by the way. Oh yes, happy new year. Yeah, it’s it’s a Catholic new year today. Restarting the liturgical calendar. Moving on to Gospel Cycle A for the Sunday Mass. Yes. Gospel of Matthew and reading cycle one for daily Masses which is only for people who go to daily Masses. Oh there’s different cycles. Yeah, yeah. So for the daily Masses you get the same Gospel during ordinary time but the choice between is there’s two first reading and responsorial Psalm cycles. Oh okay. I was going to say I went to a few daily Masses where the priests read readings that were I don’t know I I he read the readings and I thought oh I want to see what those were again so I went and looked up the readings of the day and they were different. Like does he just pick whatever he wants or? So when there’s a saint you have the option of substituting the saint’s readings for the daily Mass. Oh okay. But the prenotanda for the lectionary says that the daily Mass cycle is preferred and should only be done if you should only substitute the saint’s readings if there’s a strong devotion to that particular saint among the people. Well this priest has a strong devotion to pretty much every saint out there I guess. One of those old school Polish pastors who puts a puts a statue in every nook and cranny of the church. Actually yes. I don’t know if he’s Polish but I wouldn’t doubt it if he was and there are statues everywhere. You go to those Polish churches that’s how they’re decorated. How many saints can we get in here? That’s the big thing. Mark Lefebvre is asking about daily Mass. Yes, yes it’s you know at an average parish you might get a dozen to thirty people at daily Mass but it’s something we do because you’ve got these priests and they need to have something to do. So we celebrate Mass every day. It’s what they do when it’s not Sunday you know. Celebrate daily Mass. What else would they do? I wonder if among the Orthodox that’s not more common just at monasteries having the Eucharist every day. So if anybody is Orthodox come on and answer questions for me but we have four viewers so you really have to roll the dice and get lucky there. Yeah, yeah. Oh man. So how was your Thanksgiving father? Thanksgiving was wonderful. My parents hosted Thanksgiving and we had all of the fixings three different kinds of pie. My brother came up for the Twin Cities which wasn’t expected one of my brothers but he’s a musician and kind of plans things at the last minute so he called my parents like 10 o’clock the night before and said hey guys I’m coming up. So that was delightful. Yeah so it was a good Thanksgiving. How about you? Oh yeah it was nice. I went to Mass in the morning and sang at the cathedral and it was very nice. We’re still eating leftovers actually. I don’t know about you. Well the leftovers are all at my parents house. They didn’t send any with me. No I’m offended. Is that a first? I guess I could drive over there it’s only about a 10 minute drive so if I really wanted some but I don’t think the leftovers would last long with my old man around so. He’s a big fan of the leftovers. How you doing Chad? Great. Can you hear me? Is this thing working? Yep yep yep coming in loud and clear. Wonderful yeah no it’s good. A buddy of mine just did our weekly detox meeting that was good. We had like five people in there that were interested which is good because it happened right before the game starts so that’s good. Actors are playing tonight? Yeah because usually when the game’s on nobody wants to everybody seems to be cured of their alcoholism so that’s cool. Oh nice. Funny how that happens everybody seems to be instantly sanctified too. No longer have to go to church. But yeah it’s good. On my way I actually called my pastor so I wanted to you know I’m in this church and I like the church. My wife and I like the church. We like being in the church community but we feel like we’re so adjacent. We don’t really feel in it. Part of that is like the scheduling that they have with events and stuff is you know they have like a like a a women’s meeting but it meets during the week you know at like 10 a.m. and so it’s it’s a lot of older people like really old people who are interested in doing fellowship type stuff but they’re not working and stuff so I called my pastor. I wanted to touch base with them and I asked him like what what does your daily walk of God try to look like? You know like to give me like a picture you know and he said well I’ll tell you what you know a lady told me really simple when you go to bed at night say thank you and wake up in the morning and say please help. Okay all right yeah I get it like is there something that you do that’s disciplined? So he said that he used to be a lot more disciplined with stuff when he was in seminary and stuff like that. It’s not as tight of a ship as it used to be because he has like four kids in Hawaii. I don’t know he mentioned Psalms 95 or something reading that in the morning. What do you suggest? Yeah so first off there’s no one correct way to do it so my number one suggestion is whatever you do it needs to be something that won’t burn you out in two weeks. Number two suggestion is that you have to do it in the morning. Mm-hmm. Number two suggestion is figure out what yeah so a lot of people over here in Catholic land they’re big fans of the rosary and they make the rosary happen. I usually pray a rosary before going to bed that’s kind of kind of my rosary time. It helps calm the mind slow it down at least in theory. Sometimes my mind doesn’t like being slowed down. How long does something like that take in like say a novice or novice step? It’d be like 20 minutes. And you know the nice thing is is you can find like probably thousands of videos of people praying the rosary that you could you could pray along with you know probably find like Mark Wahlberg or Jim Gaffigan praying the rosary because every Catholic celebrity has to have a rosary tape. Oh yeah the guy who does the chosen also does it. Jonathan Rumi. Jonathan Rumi on hello. Yeah so anyway that’s a nice thing is it’s got that kind of low barrier of entry. Another thing that I think is great is is Lexio Divina on the Bible and. You mentioned that. What is that? I actually don’t know what that is. Yeah yeah so it’s basically a way of encountering and I do it with the Bible but Mark Lefebvre and Manuel told me that I need to be doing it with any text and I was a little bit hesitant to that. If you didn’t catch the stream on Wednesday that was something that happened. So basically you take a small chunk of the Bible. I could always recommend the Gospels for this and then you just read it slowly. You invoke the Holy Spirit, ask him to guide you, read it slowly, see what stands out, appears relevant to that, and then you could do a process of just kind of turning it over in your mind. What does Jesus mean when he’s saying this here? How is this significant? How does this impact my life? So really you know it shouldn’t be that terribly complicated. It should flow naturally like a conversation if it’s going well. Sometimes prayer is dry. That’s something you need to just be prepared for. Yeah and the nice thing is that I could always recommend. I did that this morning. Oh, well there you go. How did that go? Sorry, I’m probably a robot right here but I just what I’d like to do is open the Bible up to a random spot and then I’ll do that. Today I opened up to Jeremiah when Egypt is about to get plobbered. That was weird. Is there anything that spoke to you there? Um yeah, yes. A lot of it is a lack of, I was looking at my lack of discipline actually and maybe lack of humility and attention on things that are not very important. You know something Saint Ignatius of Loyola always said before you do any prayer you should take like kind of the first 30 seconds of any time of prayer to remind yourself that your father in heaven loves you and yeah just to mentally picture what the father’s love is. So absolutely. Yeah I don’t think that God’s out there. I don’t think God’s sitting like waiting for you to come out. Oh no Chad Tuck. Stupid internet. He’ll be back. He’s probably in the middle of something amazing right now. Uh yeah probably. Usually when this happens they’ll end up hearing everything we’re saying afterwards. So very very quickly. Very quickly yes. Chad are you back? Hello? Maybe, can you hear me? There you are. Uh huh. That’s a no. Hey all right. No I don’t think God’s you know waiting to smash you. Right right yeah I don’t know. I just think it I just think it sets the prayer off on the right foot there to uh. Yeah yeah. Yeah um so anyway those are kind of kind of my two go-to’s of ways that I pray. And uh I I put quite a bit of time into it because there’s no point in being a priest unless uh unless you’re gonna go hardcore on the whole holiness thing. But uh whatever amount of time you can manage is where you should start. That’s what I think. Yeah for sure. I mean I’m no priest but I think that’s pretty good. Yeah yeah that’s good. I should be back. Am I? Yeah yeah there you are I can hear you. Okay yeah no basically all I’m saying is whenever guilt and self-loading that may arise I don’t think comes from God. So right right I don’t think he’s gonna smack me up or anything like that. Look waiting for me to like you know drop the ball so you can spike me. I don’t think that’s what it is. It’s those uh the self-centered feelings are more of maybe maybe that’s something like you know being possessed by a spirit of self-loathing or something. It’s not God. So and I wasn’t feeling that either like that like I was looking trying to look at that book of Jeremiah. I’m sure you know what I’m talking about. I never knew it was in there right? This is what I like about kind of opening it up random you know. I know it’s kind of willy-nilly but I thought it was like wow I didn’t even know this type of thing was in the book. Yeah yeah that whole political intrigue with Egypt and Jeremiah was like don’t trust in Egypt. Trust in the Lord you know and people didn’t listen. Oh man yeah so. So what do you got planned for this week? Well I’ve got my welcome to the Catholic church classes called RCIA tomorrow night. We’re going to be talking about liturgy. I hope that can go well. Got some interesting meetings with folks trying to get some situations figured out. Wednesday night we’ve got the uh the RE classes. I teach two seconds sections of seventh grade religion. And then Thursday I’m going over to the high school to uh do an open Q&A with the sophomores. Cool. Is that is that a Catholic school? Yeah yeah it’s a Catholic high school. That sounds pretty good. Yeah got a uh a question here but Chad or Andrew do you guys have anything interesting uh coming up this week? This week oh um. This week oh um yes over this next week I’m going to go to a practice for a Christmas concert which will be oh no oh no that’s next week but I can’t talk about next week. It’s gotta be this week right? Well I’ve got a first Saturday mass coming up that I’ll sing it and uh what else am I doing? Do I do anything besides singing? I guess I got a new architecture project to do. So that’s interesting. Is that what you’re studying? Yes yeah I’m going to college now for architecture. Very nice you might you might be able to uh to build a really nice church someday. Oh I hope so that would be splendid. Yeah yeah. What about you Chad? It’s actually nice. Yeah yeah I think you’ll be just fine. What about you Chad? You got anything coming up? Um I I don’t really well the course of the week it’s going to be another kind of my wife and I are beginning this new uh project of seeing if we can really live up to a budget and so that’s going to be part of this week. Starting a new job site tomorrow. I was in Madison for like a month and I’ll be in Milwaukee so that’ll be good. I have my writer’s group on Wednesday for our Peter Pan story and then Saturday I think there there is a men’s breakfast that I was invited to that I think I’m going to go to for our church. Other than that no there’s I can’t think of anything that’s really you know I like I’m really trying to settle into finding a rhythm in being average and and really trying to and really trying to uh find where I’m where that’s going to be beautiful and somewhat comfortable you know what I mean it’s it’s I’m not describing that very well but you know I’m 39 years old it’s like okay I have my family and I have a home and I want to find things that I can engage in that are meaningful on a spiritual level but also settling into growing up and becoming average and being feeling really secure in that so that’s all kind of new for me which is weird because I’m almost bored yeah yeah well some people never get there so you’re ahead of them but uh yeah it sounds like you’re going to become a ordinary American guy I like it yeah but uh you know it’s honestly it’s like the world runs on that the world runs on people quietly and faithfully doing the little bit that God has given them so keeps the world going around we got a question here from Aaron hey father Eric what do you think about talking with other Christians who may or may not believe what you believe doctrines lifestyles or anything else well um I do that a lot uh that’s part of the reason why I like hanging out on places like the bridges of meeting discord server and listening to this random protestant pastor from Sacramento so much is uh you know um but it’s a difficult thing it’s a difficult thing especially if you’re not what maybe it’s not for everybody right so I I go into a discussion with um somebody I don’t know some some protestant and um or some orthodox fellow uh and uh I pretty calm and confident and where I’m at you know um and it’s like sometimes there are challenges sometimes there are things that’ll get me a little bit uh off base you know and uh that’s never fun to deal with but but I never really feel like I’m gonna change fundamentally like I’m gonna stop being Catholic and and I’ve got that that confidence um which is nice but it’s not uh something that’s you know young or or not used to being Christian or only kind of modestly attached to a particular tradition I think it’s actually it might not be the best thing for everybody to go out into the open internet and be exploring everything um um because I really feel like the only reason I’ve got as much uh inner peace is because I went through kind of a narrowing process that dr peterson talked about this might have been in his biblical lectures can’t remember um but like part of the work of your early 20s is you have to become something right got to become a pipe fitter or a archaeologist or a journalist or something um you’ve got to acquire those skills you could have an identity and a place in the world so me that was seminary um and I spent quite a lot of time and energy and effort into becoming a Catholic priest and then once I got on the other side of that and I had this foundation and this structure then then you know I had a place for for these other ideas um and so they’re extremely intelligent and very sincere with their faith um and it isn’t all that terribly threatening to me um so I’ve benefited immensely I think from listening to to pastor paul uh his take on things um seeing that uh I think no matter what Christian denomination you’re in good pastoring always comes down to you know reassuring people of God’s love and his providence for them um and then um yeah you know I could I could talk with somebody who’s who’s a little bit out there in terms of uh uh mainline Christian orthodoxy somebody like uh sam adams transfigured channel and I could benefit from his insights because I feel like it’s actually more likely to correct errors inside of me than it is to draw me into error but that’s only because um it’s only because I’ve got that foundation so anyway um yeah it does depend a little bit but so far I’ve been uh yeah I’ve been loving it I it’s one of those things that I have to be uh careful and exercise a little bit of self-control and discipline not to do too much so thanks for the question Aaron it’s one thing I noticed about those I think who play nicest in this little space is um they they care they’re characterized by exactly what you said they’re they seem to be um confident in and where they’re standing uh there’s a an interest in in fellowship um they’re now feel like they’re going to get knocked off the block they’re willing to have um dead wood burned away which is good um but I think and and like and they’re not they’re not going to get like converted and they’re not looking to convert necessarily so it’s like it’s kind of like in a way it’s kind of like these little meetings and these little conversations we have are kind of like something like a fishing trip where you go out on a fishing trip with like 10 guys or whatever maybe it’s five guys you know but you’re not worried that the guy is going to like take your kids and your wife you know what I mean and then he’s going to take your mortgage we’re just going to talk about life you know and it’s kind of like that it’s like it’s like men being men around each other and it’s it’s there’s a security and I really I really appreciate it and uh it’s it’s not a battleground it’s uh it’s uh and there’s a security in it yeah we’re happy with I’m happy that your your father excites I’m happy that that’s who you are you know what I mean just like I’m happy pastor paul is who he is and I’m happy Jacob is who he is and I don’t want to change these men yeah you know that’s that’s the beauty of this and it seems like any any um religion worth its salt any any religion that um can last a few centuries uh that when you practice it sincerely and um let’s say advance in it everybody comes to the same conclusion that god’s really in charge and we’re not yeah right I think I see that across the board you know like any any protestant who who’s embodying christ well they’ll say yeah god’s really in charge and I’m not and any catholic who’s really embodying christ will say god’s really in charge and I’ve got and and you could you could get that I’ve got and and you could you could get that same sort of uh spirit from jews and muslims yeah and then once you’ve got that in your minds yeah right so that’s why I was talking about uh ancient wisdom traditions religions something that’s lasting not uh yeah not jim jones yeah for pete’s sake yeah we’ll say recognized saints not recognized psychopaths yeah yeah well I hey I really love talking with you uh right right well I appreciate you guys god bless you I love you we love you too Chad yeah yeah and uh yeah just to have to go around times yeah as honest a man as we could ask for huh yeah for sure yeah yeah why isn’t he catholic yet well because he’s found a lutheran church that he likes oh okay yeah oh man but you got any favorite christmas movies andrew movies oh wow I haven’t watched a movie in a long time wow you’re like uh monastic I guess but I don’t know I usually well I don’t have netflix and uh it’s really where everybody gets their movies nowadays although I guess amazon too but uh yeah no it’s not like a super difficult fast that I’m doing or anything it’s I just don’t usually watch movies yeah mostly because I just don’t have access to them yeah um but yeah in terms of christmas movies I mean uh I’m starting to learn the piano now so I started doing some of the Charlie Brown Christmas songs like the little ice skating thing uh I don’t know what it’s called you know playing the keys real fast all over the piano fun you want to you want to play in church someday if you can get good enough oh yeah yeah at um at the latin mass I was doing while it was going on uh I was technically the the cantor a few times but I since I can’t play the organ uh another guy came in and played the organ but he didn’t know how to do the mass so it was kind of funny like I’m making sure the scolas all together and getting things right and I’m like whispering in his ear like okay start playing the organ now so but yeah I figured you know what I should just learn how to play this thing so that I can just do this and uh and read all the rubrics and everything so so the guy I’m singing with at the cathedral has gotten these uh beginners piano books for me and he’s gonna teach me how to play it so I’m learning man you got a lot of good stuff going on yes yes I’m very grateful for all the crazy stuff that has been happening in the past year yeah it’s been quite something I believe Fennel says her favorite Christmas movie is it’s a wonderful life uh so that’s a good one solid choice I forgot about that yeah it’s been a long time since I’ve seen that one as well yeah what about you uh father you know I’ve got a a real soft spot for uh the Santa Claus the Santa Claus yeah with Tim Allen from like 1996 hold on I gotta look this up yeah yeah I think I might have seen that yeah Tim Allen yeah Santa Claus spelled with an e like a legal clause it’s a pun oh is that the one where they look at the clause with the big microscope and yes yes okay I know what that one is yeah yeah I think uh I think if you imagine that the movie isn’t actually about Santa Claus it’s like a giant allegory for something else um then it gets better uh that’s all I’ll say about that I thought about actually like I charted out a whole like I watched it like a couple years ago with my family and I was like almost in tears because I had like charted out this whole um way of talking about it meeting crisis and Scott Calvin is materialist man um and then it was all it was all gone the next morning it was just gone like yeah well doesn’t he turn into Santa Claus and he does gets fired gets fired from his regular job you yeah because he won’t he was he too fat or something no no he um he was in a marketing firm and they were gonna they were gonna have this hyper commercialized and they were gonna they were gonna have this hyper commercialized Santa Claus put out you know oh right and uh and he wasn’t playing along with it he’s like no no guys listen Santa Claus is like this he’s not gonna ride in a tank oh yeah like yeah you know and they’re like like Scott like you’re you know it’s and oh man it’s just like it’s like a brilliant it’s like a brilliant allegory for for having tasted the things of the divine and then you can’t go back to the pleasures of the world innocently anymore yeah it’s like he’s ruined for paganism at that point oh well yeah honestly I might bring a notebook home for Christmas this year because because because we watched that one a fair bit it’s a family classic so I might just like take notes you know and then see how many clips of the movie I can put on YouTube before I get a copyright strike so anyway if you guys think Father Sites’s commentary on the Santa Claus with the D would be a worthwhile video let me know because because I’ve been thinking about it but you probably won’t get it until after Christmas because before Christmas is going to be busy uh Renee says hi I’ve been uh been good been good got to see an old friend on Friday uh came up from South Dakota always good to catch up yeah so anyway and and speaking of I saw this um this article uh on um on another website article about uh the father from the Christmas story um yeah Christmas story revisited the old man isn’t who I thought he was I won’t read it because that would be um that would be is it a copyright strike it wouldn’t be I don’t think it’d be a copyright nobody’s going to pay attention to that um but uh yeah so anyway in case you want to remember just how brilliant the script for that movie was uh read that good little article uh this that is what was my previous question make a case for materialists to even entertain the divine the non-material to be part of the body yeah what’s the case for going to church uh that’s a it’s a big question right there um because yeah I mean honestly Mark uh Mark Lefebvre has a wonderful YouTube channel called Navigating Patterns and I especially appreciated his video on uh what is a church um actually I’m gonna drop the link into uh the chat here because it was such a a fantastic video um oh I think we uh we both we both did it simultaneously but it was held on my administrator account here so go ahead and uh uh check that uh uh check that video out after you’re done with this um yeah yeah uh so make a case for materialists to even entertain the divine the non-material to be part of the body I mean it depends on which materialist you’re talking about right so kind of a big crack in my uh implicit and unwanted materialist framing in my life that happened when I was in seminary was music um because I loved um I loved music and uh I still do love music and it would do things in me to me and through me um that couldn’t be explained in a materialist frame it’s almost miraculous you know it’s like oh play these noises and all of a sudden grumpy old eric uh is crying you know like oh why are the noises making you cry well because they’re beautiful ah crack that in there so it really I don’t I don’t think like materialists come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and it’s not you gotta you gotta give them that individual approach but I think the the general approach is just to be to to find something that is according to a materialist framing of the world thinking everything’s just a bunch of atoms and electrons find something that is miraculous according to that framing it use that like a like a pressure washer to get the water in the hole somehow yeah and that’s why I’m all about building beautiful churches oh yeah because it’s like why why is this church beautiful tell me oh evolutionary biologist why am I drawn to buildings that have a tall ceiling that’s easy beauty doesn’t actually exist it’s just you know you were raised in a certain environment so you’re just attracted to that because of childhood I guess I guess yeah but listen like there hasn’t been um I don’t think there’s been a a culture that could raise somebody to deny the beauty of um of a great cathedral right it’s just a kind of um it kind of overwhelms uh but that’s that’s the thing about the beauty um so beauty uh imagining that we’re considering it as a transcendental which is a disappointed point but we won’t get into that it’s at least relatively transcendental in the materialist frame so it’ll be good enough um don’t worry about it if you didn’t understand that uh sounds good to me it it bypasses um the rational thinky talky part of people it doesn’t sit there and try and argue with them using logic and inductive reasoning it just it just experiencing them so you want the experience of music and something more without needing the music opening you up to a world of wonder where beauty truth and goodness makes sense yes yes oh does that mean uh experiencing the beauty of music with something else that’s not music or just without music um not sure um yeah yeah um so so i was bringing up music because that worked for me um that got me well architecture is very often compared to music anyways yeah yeah i mean and um is being kind of a non propositionally articulated art form yeah so anyway that’s something that i actually you know i’ll say something nice about the anglican church because they’re usually a punching bag in the back of my head but they they’ve got that whole oh just come here for eventide you know just come here for eventide there’s no preaching it’s just you know we’ve got our lovely english gothic chapel we’ve got the lovely choir and you just come for the music and the liturgy there’s no preaching there’s no no dogma there and it really you know it’s like the english the english they’ve got a certain advantage over the americans as they’ve got the century of history and culture to draw on without it making ethical demands on you you know you can even see this with british actors right it’s like if they’re getting burnt out of their career stalls then they uh they just find their way uh onto a shakespeare stage uh and if they’re burnt out in their regular life um they can uh they can just go to eventide you know uh go to go to vespers at their local parish and uh experience the beauty there so anyway oh hi mark hello hello there mark yeah i’m just trying to help you i don’t i don’t want to talk about churches i don’t know anything about church what am i doing talking about it no but i think um i’ve got i’ve got one comment i need to attend to immediately as soon as it comes up okay i have to ask why hasn’t that white bag on your desk behind you for 10 months don’t you clean or clear your office so this space that i’m in right now if everything goes well in two months it won’t exist anymore because they’re building more office space behind me so so there’s no point in moving the white bag like i don’t i don’t have much incentive to to uh clean my room because um this the space is i haven’t put up like anything besides a calendar on the walls here even though i’ve got lots of lovely catholic art that i could put up with so uh it’s very attentive um i’m gonna go ahead and try turpses shore turps turpes turpa shore so anyway i hadn’t even noticed that life was like that so i didn’t either yeah oh mark you’re trying to help me and i’ve got a feeling your your help is going to be something like a chiropractor stretching me out and rearranging things hey the chiropractor solved a bunch of my health issues so don’t knock it until you get us racked or whatever they’re doing to you it’s all good yeah i think um i had a very long conversation with a friend of mine i don’t get to talk too very much on we popped out on clubhouse and um we were going back and forth about a very contentious issue which was the war in ukraine and one of the things he’s really good at is saying uh you know you’re gonna bring this language down even though he can play with me he he probably can probably outclass me language wise all day long because he’s a he’s an ethics teacher and he used to teach uh teenagers ethics yeah other countries teach ethics ethnic schools teach ethics novel idea right and we don’t we don’t do that i think that’s really actually at the heart of the problem that i’m that i’m trying to point out which is because again i i don’t know why i don’t know why i can tell no one’s getting it i just don’t know why the project is still peterson did something that everyone else is trying to do and can’t however and the churches in particular right they’re all like hey this is our job how come we can’t do like the the biblical series is sort of like the the clarion call right and i mean the stuff before that for me is even more important right because those are the people that are in we’ll say real trouble but like the biblical series is just the perfect evidence that you know you guys are not messaging well or like you need a better marketing department or you know however you want to think about it right and so how do you bring that language down to people right because you know look you can go on some wacky crusade like i’m on to make final cause great again uh but that’s like this is not going to play well in the theaters right like this is not a movie anyone’s going to go see um and and this is sort of what i was getting at in the in the four way that we did with joey and and uh pastor paul right which is i don’t know why and and maybe not me personally right because maybe i have an understanding but people don’t know why in particular they should care about spirituality as such right and therefore why church is important because this is what i keep talking about is they’re really far away because first you have to make the case for something like spirituality and then you have to make the case for well if you want to have those spiritual sorts of experiences and you don’t want to do drugs for example or drugs are unreliable to you because they certainly are then maybe maybe you need a structure and maybe the thing that provides that structure is something like going to church and so i poorly worded my first question which was not church as in the place but churches in the body will say right like why should i be involved in it in a in a spiritual structure as such right whether that’s physically going to the building or not is not not like let’s get people interested first let’s get into the building right and and that’s sort of what i what i you know it’s a depth it’s a quality that’s missing in the whole conversation is first you’ve got to get them interested in things that aren’t material right right yeah and uh that’s why we’re all paying attention to dr peterson is because he did that that’s right well that’s that third way that i keep trying to poke at paul about and maybe i’ll just email him and say all right set up a time because he said he wanted to do the convo with me and i think i’m almost able to do it but yeah i could i could probably just poke him and say set up a time give me a slot we’ll just hash this out right now because i think it’s important because i don’t think people are really understanding and i do of course have two videos on what jordan peterson did right um and i don’t think that’s complete like i think i could add a third and maybe a fourth to you know sort of the things that i see that he did that other people don’t seem to have noticed or don’t don’t highlight and and i don’t think those are the only tools you can use more importantly i think he’s missing a bunch of stuff you know i would point at a bunch of people who hate don’t hate maybe that’s too strong who didn’t resonate with peterson at all but totally resonated with vervecky which is totally fascinating to me i’m like how is this possible and i think it has something to do with the pragmatism because vervecky is anti-pragmatic actually and peterson is hyper pragmatic roughly speaking if you if you wanted to find it a stark enough difference to care about i think that would be the difference yeah but it’s it’s a tricky thing and this is um yeah this is just a long-term project long-term thinking for me is um how to how to open people’s eyes right and that’s like like frankly you know that is it is a massive a massive a massive problem we have huge um huge amounts of money spent on this problem in the form of marketing and pr right like how do i get people to think the way i want them to think and buy what i want to buy consider what i think is important to be important and it’s you know it’s like and and there’s really cheap ways to do it and we don’t want to have anything to do with that right like um no so so that’s a good that’s a good question because as we’re talking about this i’m sort of having it through my head so one thing to think about is i could because i don’t believe the medium is the message like i think that’s actually wrong um as much as i like the rest of the work that that that seems wrong so if i think about something like tiktok which i try to never do but you have now forced me into it um what we’re really doing is where we’re signaling to people through action what they should be emulating and so if it’s scently clad women you know dancing to you know uh cheap music roughly speaking well we call it cheap cheap low grade music right because it’s very drug like it gives you a quick three and a half minute hit or whatever right of super super excitement and then it kind of goes away and then you’ve got to like process that and and but you can always go back right so it’s you know it’s like the most dangerous form of drugs in in some sense right because it’s using your own your own dopamine system and the whole nine yards and and i think that’s the problem is that again and you know i said it before like on holy week you tell me you’re really busy what are you doing and why right worship god first what are you doing well yeah but but but in the physical realm we’ll say in the material realm because nobody sees that they don’t understand that that like pastors don’t just sit around a church waiting for drugs to knock and ask for five dollars like it right or priests just aren’t there waiting for people to come in and and and take confession like you know what i mean like nobody has that sense and i do mean nobody i’m like i like you said daily mass and i was like what and now i’m like because there’s a couple of catholic churches down the street here and i’m like i wonder if they have daily mass because i have no idea and i don’t think they do like i literally do not think that they do and it would be interesting to find out but i don’t know and and it’s like well why the hell don’t i know that like why isn’t so i know more about the stupid orthodox church which i’ve been to as many times as i’ve been to the one of the catholic churches down the street i know more about like they do they do wednesdays and they do saturdays and they do sundays right and and it’s like oh okay so so i know right off the top of my head and it’s like and that’s on the other side of town it’s not even in it’s it’s not even in columbia it’s in west columbia it’s way the health it’s way on the other side of town right across the river it’s on the bad side of the river it’s in the lowlands for christ’s sake you know and and that’s the thing like like why and why isn’t that more visible and and you know that that’s it’s it’s part of this lack of visibility this recession you know the church is receding and by the church i mean the body not just the physical buildings both are receding and and i think that’s part of the issue is what you know that’s and and and part of the reason why they’re receding is to avoid the tiktok crowd right yeah yeah oh they’re they got people from tiktok going to their church no i think i think again i think that um basically the church is viewing or the we’ll say that the the church structures are are viewing these newer mediums as flawed in and of themselves and so there is an aspect of you have to meet the people where they’re at but but also there’s these are at but but also there’s these sisters on tiktok that do all sorts of stuff but the thing is is that the algorithm sorts all that material to people who are already into it yeah that’s yeah sure sure but and that’s the problem like i i don’t want that i would rather see a bunch of catholics working on a house or something or yeah for somebody right because that’s what attracts people like oh they’re doing something why are they doing something should i be doing that i don’t know right that’s the conversation you need to have with people right because if you listen closely to peterson that’s what he does it’s like why did people do this why you know but why did why were the guards cruel right why why why were the people who supported the communist regime in the gulags why why when they got there did they not make it oh well they fell into one of two camps the ones that repented roughly speaking and the ones that did not right like these little lessons are right there but no one’s out there with them and not represent like the the thing about peterson is he is a bridge i at one point i remember peugeot was saying you know it’s like you’ve got your one one foot on one island and the other foot on the other island and those islands are spreading apart right and it’s like right but but he is that bridge to some extent to to uh because he’s not in he’s not even in the church i think that’s actually really important like i don’t think it works if you if you wear a collar and do it right no i think it does this no because everybody everybody just thinks that you’re just trying to sell them something well it depends well it because they they put it in a political or economic frame this is actually what my friend and i were talking about i was like yeah if you try to put the word ukraine in an economic or a political frame you’re not gonna you can’t resolve it in those it’s not resolvable at all here’s here now mark did you see that video that pastor paul posted on friday morning or saturday morning with that pastor in australia getting absolutely borked on uh television did you see that one oh i i yeah that was friday morning yeah i i did i did go through that one yeah i mean yeah that was fascinating yeah right because the interviewer guy and and we can we can get shades of jordan peterson on cathy newman he was embodying uh spirit for the um for for we’ll say uh use big big old scare quotes here the elite media um or elite opinions about these things but this incredible incredible suspicion of anybody who’s not going to march according to the party line yeah i mean the the only problem i was that was brutal it was absolutely brutal yeah well he was doing a gotcha and and like fair enough like i get that all the time like i get that recently on my channel or was it on my channel i forget where i was um i got that recently in a comment section somewhere um yeah it was on my channel uh or on one of the videos i commented on or something and um you know these people like i knew the gotcha are at like you know they’re so cute they’re so young they’re cute when they’re young right like people have tried that trick with me so many times that the minute you start that trick i already know where you’re going to go and i cut you off at the knees immediately because i already know these things like i i have these things i invented for you know for for christ sakes like literally there’s a bunch of trolling techniques that i did first like sorry i just i was there first years ago so there’s a bunch of well yeah yeah yeah you can set people up ahead of time by saying it’s like if you want to catch somebody on free will you set them up ahead of time by saying well are you saying that because you can’t make a decision about x that you have no free will right because then you have to either say well no i have no free will or i do right and and i had already cut him off by saying it’s not like gravity is an issue with free will like like nobody thinks that gravity has something to do with free will they just don’t link the two things together but what that implies is that free will can’t be this freewheeling you know sort of thing so what happens is in the media they try that trick but the the answer to that is to answer honestly and that’s what you didn’t learn from peterson is just answer honestly yeah and i think the guy didn’t do himself any favors by not saying yep that’s what we believe like glaring at the camera he should have said i believe that that he is in line with the with the same teachings as the church and then he should have qualified that with but i bet you don’t understand what that is because that’s what i would have done i would have shoved it right back in his face and said i bet you don’t know what that is that’s not sticking to the talking points though well that’s the thing if you stick to their frame you lose i mean this is one of the things that peterson talks about you can’t you can’t use their language against them it’s not going to work you need to call them out when they have a bad move and that’s what i did with this guy i said i right up front made the gravity argument right and then it said of course i believe in free will but he didn’t he didn’t hear the of course i believe in free will in that argument and that’s the problem we’re talking about a protestant pastor from australia being interviewed on tv and it just not being pretty so anyway but my my point is is that before we can you know as a as a church person as a collar wearing person as a as a a sacrifice offering person i have to get through people’s belief that they already understand what i’m talking about right and it’s it’s really difficult right because people have all sorts of low quality takes and yet i’ve got to like get through those first and it’s hard to do that in a mass media format if i can like sit down and have somebody speak honestly with me which is already hard enough because people seem to want to tell me what i want to hear but what i want to actually want to hear is like what you’re actually thinking but i got it’s it’s just it’s just i don’t know it’s a difficult problem and as much help as you can get me solving it cutting through the the the feed yeah well you just got to go through the the the the the the the the basic uh like you know being able to be vulnerable with somebody that takes months sometimes to well if you do it on a yeah if you do it on a personal level but again i think if they’re look the the media hijacked people in this way and you can hijack them back using something similar right although not the same way that’s why i think the medium is the message language is dangerous because then you’re not on tiktok showing you know a normal life or something right showing uh mindful cleaning of your room according to the catholic doctrine or something right or or just the christianity virtue of orderliness the virtue of orderly exactly the virtue of orderliness for for for right these things could be exemplified without mentioning the church without mentioning the bible without mentioning jesus without right because it it and this is the conversation i had in the comment section on father mckenzie’s uh youtube channel i was i was trying to explain to him no no the thing you’re not understanding is that nobody’s taught ariestotle you can’t you can’t start you can’t assume they have that base they they do not they do not i talked to people about play dough and ariestotle and they are lost there you know and they know just enough to to nitpick and be dangerous but they don’t actually understand the and the message hey nick what do they not understand about ariestotle anything they’d never they’re not aware of him right and so they know like oh we had something to do with logic and they know he had four causes maybe but they don’t know what they are right and that’s the and that’s the problem and i i have to disagree you don’t have to clean your room father eric you’re fine it’ll get clean in in a few months here whether i like it or not yeah well and and so so i’ve been watching i’ve been watching i’ve been absolutely fascinated with these new youtube channels like so there’s one guy in canada that goes and hunts for gold he’s got a bunch of gold claims and it’s all small stuff i mean i also watch gold rush which is my one of my favorite shows and they get a million dollars you know last week a million bucks or nine hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars a week right in gold in gold yeah he’s got a serious mining operation in the uconn right but this guy’s just out there you know doing stuff by hand by himself sometimes with his friends you know okay they’ll get like two grams of gold you know in four hours right but but it’s fascinating to watch and i was like yeah that’s interesting and the other thing i’ve been watching recently is there are crazy people who fix old computers which is something i wish i had the the time and resources and uh and energy to do because i got a i got a shed full of them like a ton of them i could play with yeah yeah i follow a similar channel where he’s putting together like old game systems back together with just like a few simple resistors fuses a soldering iron and a microscope and i would work with my app yeah exactly and this guy’s using oscilloscopes and talking about the memory and the different right in the amiga 500 and the trs 80 and you know all these old things all the machines and some of the older gaming machines and giving a little historical background right but they’re doing things right and it’s like watching the uh you know the channels with lades you ever watch a channel with lades like lathe channels are like uh uh like crack cocaine to males they’ll just watch something be built on a lathe all day long right it’s like oh memorizing women don’t like it at all right but but there’s nothing there’s no draw like that you know towards the the more spiritual aspect of things i think and that’s sort of maybe where the focus should be is on well look at this thing we’re doing that gives us joy that generates joy in a way you can’t get your like like you can ask me all day long what do you like about watching lathe channels mark and i’m like i i avoid them like the play because precisely for that reason like i don’t know why i like this this is kind of scary i think i’ll stay you know i think i’ll i’ll limit my time with it right yeah the production of order out of chaos something like that yeah yeah um so there’s probably people doing this on social media right um it’s probably in some order that just you know religious order or some priest or some regular old catholic mom somewhere who’s doing something quite like that um but our media landscape is so outrageously fragmented because a fragmented society is actually easier to extract money out of um when you can get somebody hyper specialized yeah i don’t i i think that it’s easier it’s easier to deal with because then you then well this is this is the intimacy crisis in my opinion right it’s easy to deal with because now you can choose your own adventure which means you can choose the things you want to conflict on and the things you don’t want to conflict on i mean this is why the ukraine war is going to go on forever because they won’t accept a loss like you can’t say we just want russia to leave and put everything back the way it was like that’s never going to happen it’s it’s not possible right because the the longer the war goes on the less of the old ukraine is actually there like you know so at some point you don’t want to rush yeah right well at some point you have to say we want to stop destroying what little we have left before we have nothing left and then negotiate the rest so that we keep something because otherwise you will lose everything that is how war works right it’s russia is not going to lose everything that’s not possible they have their own land you’re not invading them that’s not going to happen but they can stay there long enough until you have nothing that they can do and they probably will at this point for many many reasons whatever you think of that right but it’s the acceptance of the fact that once a conflict like that begins a war there’s always a loss and every day you keep engaging in the war there’s a loss and so at some point wars don’t end unless you negotiate and everyone’s like we will never negotiate with russia i’m like then you’re just saying you’re never going to stop the war no matter what you’re just going to kill more people and destroy more infrastructure and i’m not a fan like i feel bad because ukraine’s caught in a bigger thing right and it’s the same with people it’s like well i can just pick which tribe i want to be part of right which faction i want to hang out with and then i can switch at any time because i mean i can switch my gender at any time apparently like it’s whichever you want that’s causing you a conflict right you can just switch you can just say oh i’m not i’m not in that anymore that thing that was hurting me is gone because now i’m a woman or now i’m non-binary or or or now i’m i’m identifying as black or you know whoever who knows what’s who knows what’s up for grabs now i don’t know but there’s nothing showing people getting along together and this is actually my buddy uri on on clubhouse he keep this is one of the things he wants to do he wants to show like manuel and i get in these huge fights they’re huge fights and we go at it man we just it’s insults and it’s get very personal right and we’re fine because whatever whatever we were fighting about is dumb you know how boys get yeah yeah i know but but worse it’s stupid intellectual garbage that means nothing like it means nothing it does not affect our ability to go out and have a sandwich together for lunch like it just it’s just not important right at the end of the day you know whether you think aristotle’s final cause is is worthy of resurrection or not is really not that important to me being in fellowship with you yeah you know as a human being and so you know we need some way to simultaneously reinvigorate that idea of look at all these people who don’t agree but get along anyway and conflict is inevitable and therefore you need conflict resolution skills because that i think is where the church could say hey we specialize in conflict resolution you think therapists are good but we’ve got a whole set of tools they don’t even have the first step is all of you have to admit everything you’ve done wrong and if you say i haven’t done anything wrong then you make god into a liar people ask me what’s wrong with the church and i go i don’t know i can’t imagine and then somebody like you said something like that no no come on what was what was jesus’s first public proclamation it’s easy he says repent oh okay if you say you’re talking about a book i haven’t read dude like yeah yeah i went to catholic school and they didn’t make me do that i don’t know what to tell you i i will not take responsibility responsibility for dying institutions that i had nothing to do with um but i am sorry that your catholic high school was lame our catholic high school isn’t junior high high school junior high and high school either you did you go to catholic school andrew at all no i went to public school and they didn’t make you read never taught the bible crazy right yeah um yeah yeah i don’t know it’s it’s a hard problem to expect that i’m going to solve it tonight is it good but you always make me think mark i wasn’t expecting you to solve it tonight but i did i did want you to think because i think this is again this is the larger conversation that we’re having around this little corner is i seriously think people are not really understanding what they’re doing oh yeah right sorry my bad we’re not going to take the poor child and vivisect it here let it run to be free learn to play that’s true but but but knowing what you’re you know knowing what the goal of of the projects are right understanding that we’re emulating something that we barely understand but we’re not admitting to that which is the that’s the problem like you’re not really admitting to oh well this guy came on and did what is by by any reasonable standard of miracle right and opened up a conversation that had been previously getting shut down and shut down and shut down and shut down and you know vanishing from the world like a signal was going out of the world and then he comes in like a freaking torch right and then lights up bonfires and that bonfire keeps growing and you know we want to be part of that bonfire and we don’t know how best to do it in some sense yeah yeah um so is but i know mark that you’re jordan peterson yeah yeah okay but i know mark that you’re a demanding man who sews where he reaps where he does not so um so yeah that would be that would be another that’d be another reference that you would understand if you read the bible spoiler alert is this mark and manuel fight with insults on pay-per-view you know you could monetize that you could i am i am considering my wow that’s yuri’s project yuri wants to have the same similar switch of arguments with me and and and also uh exemplify that which is a project i’ve i’ve supported i’m trying to get him actually on a on a stream yard stream so we might do that this week um yeah i think it’s i think it’s worth it to uh to do it to to to show people arguing and still getting along at the same time yeah yeah laura you’re gonna have to tell me about saint dominic’s mother’s dream it’s a a piece of catholic lore that i have not yet encountered believe it or not there is so much catholic lore that nobody can have at all that’s why you need the whole the whole body whole body together yeah hopefully laura is going to drop us a link or a brief explanation saint dominic he was pretty pretty serious dude um so was he based i should think so i think he would actually be the model on which all other baseness would be uh based i hope that’s true for all the saints it’s just very funny like adam adam from ireland there he used to he used to do based saint whatever right all the time and it was just hysterical because it’s sort of like all the saints are based by definition pretty much she had a dream while she was pregnant that a dog grabbed a flaming torch and ran off with it and set the whole world on fire wow yep yeah the dominicans the uh the hounds of christ uh oh that’s that’s saint dominic he started the order yeah yeah oh okay and yeah i’m learning all kinds of things oh man the the dominicans in the uh in the eastern part of this country are absolutely kicking butt you’d love some of the stuff they’re doing mark but it’s mostly up in the dc area and at universities because they were teaching order but you know university students need god too common man homestead 2016 sincere and active participation in your community will bring people to church probably yeah and if people were seeing that maybe um but i think the problem is that message look if if you know to the extent that the message is being put out i never see it and that’s one of the problems one of the stunning things to me so right i come down from new england and i buy this beautiful house down here with this nice you know pond and 12 acres of land and this whole craziness and in a garden and you know all this nut nutty stuff and uh one of the real estate agents uh because it was a husband and wife team uh came with his pickup truck and helped me take away some garbage that was on the property that of course he didn’t have to do that um and and we’re driving to the dump and he’s showing me here’s how you get to the dump right because i don’t i don’t really know this place this is a new place for me right i know a little bit more about columbia where my mother was living because i was living there for a while and i can’t remember the exact phrase that he used but i mean just absolutely like floored me he you know he basically we were just talking about you driving along and i was thanking him for helping me and all that and he said you know look i’m just a christian uh i’m just a christian uh struggling and failing to do what the lord wants me to do or something like that like it was really humble and i was just like completely set back by the whole thing because a look we weren’t talking about religion think we just you know we were just kind of yapping about whatever right but like that left an impression on me and then there was a later incident where i was i i took a um i took the uh airport uh travel van or whatever um from from the uh you know from columbia up to the airport up to charlotte uh to fly up to grab one of my cars uh that was stuck up in new england and so it’s just a one-way trip which is why i why i took the van and i get in the van there’s this woman there and she starts talking about um service and the minute she used the word service i went she just used a word in a way i don’t understand and i was like uh oh uh oh like what what’s up with that like i knew right away i’m like oh you have a gap in what she’s talking about versus the words that you are interpreting and she learned service when she was 12 years old and a hurricane hit the panhandle of florida where she was living her so her parents had two rental properties plus their property and they went and fixed all of the other properties with the community before they fixed their own house and that’s how she learned about service and it was such a powerful story that i can tell you now and probably until the day i die that story because i was just blown away by that whole thing and you know i you know was there was we’ll say less overt jesus smuggling and that for sure but like that’s like wow why would anybody do that that’s that’s insane right because they don’t have to fix the rental properties first they should fix their own home first or you’re good materialist understands the efficiency and the utilitarianism and doing in the right order right you know what i mean and then and then it’s like oh but see that kind of breaks you out they’re like well why why would why would you act that way all the models in my head which are political and economic and and ego it can you know whatever say you would never do that but here’s somebody doing it’s an exemplification of goodness exactly it’s another one of those transcendentals that does not tangle with the egoic intellect with the thinky talky part of us but it just reaches straight in there and does stuff yeah well exactly that’s what i was getting at earlier when i said that you know the true the good and the beautiful right when we kind of invoke the transcendentals here because i think like like if you want to talk about the truth the good and the beautiful you have to throw out the logic the reason and the rationality goodbye uh you have and then i think i think that that’s actually for some people that’s the message like i do i do that message it actually works uh you know you have to be very careful who you can’t do that to a general audience like they’ll be lost but and there are small audiences where that message is extremely effective not that it works right away they argue with you and i can be logical about what’s beautiful i mean go ahead go ahead i’m gonna wait here go ahead do it do it do it right now right here they can’t do it and then they start to realize oh i can’t do it you can’t oh my being logical about the beautiful that sounds like told that they can love poetry exactly exactly but they’ve been told that vulcan love poetry exists because they literally have right but actually have so they’ve been given this this form for all the vulcans have all the same stuff that we have they’re just logical it’s like no they don’t then they don’t have all the stuff that we have and you and you can see that like there’s pon far and stuff like that it’s like yeah you sure because fun far doesn’t sound very logical these are all star trek references everybody so if you’re not up on star trek i think we’ll find another youtube channel well but the point is even their own systems that they think give them this idea that you can resolve everything in reality will say with logic reason and rationality they don’t work they don’t even have systems that do that yeah and that wasn’t even what star trek was trying to say because you had to have kirk spock and mccoy in order to have a proper mission exactly exactly and it was the logical mccoy the the heart and the heart kirk the heroic principle that mediated between the two he’s a too he’s a he’s a you know i don’t know what that ship is let’s shoot it down and then it’s like captain logically that would not be a good idea you know and then and then and then mccoy’s they’re like for god sakes jim don’t shoot them down they might be kind you know and that whole thing is there and if you don’t know that roddenberry was in three different plane accidents crashes then you don’t really realize that right or nichelle nichols as a pilot no he was a pilot though he he was yeah he was flying at least one of the planes yeah if i if i have my my history correct but also nichelle nichols approached him one day she used to tell the story all the time i’ve heard it several times i’ve heard her say it several times she went she went right up to roddenberry and said i know what you’re doing you’re writing moral plays right so if you don’t know that star trek is moral plays right if you don’t know that that star wars is fundamentally you know a moral heroic story right um you know advised on by campbell who didn’t understand his own work very well uh you know then then you don’t really understand what’s going on and then you end up making a good story right and then you go on to make really bad remakes of these stories sequels because you don’t understand the components you think you think you know what they are because you’ve divided them up you’ve got a very logical and rational look like everybody likes lightsaber battles so as long as we have a lightsaber battle oh everybody likes this character so as long as it doesn’t matter what we do with the characters as long as the character is there right and you see i mean people are still screaming about put on a pair of sunglasses and say it in a scottish accent all right yes yes exactly but but exactly but but you know people are still upset about wait a minute you had you had luke and leah and and han solo all together and didn’t manage to get them you know screen time together really right to any great degree like what were you thinking like what is wrong like why wouldn’t even under your stupid materialist system why wouldn’t that have occurred occurred to you and it doesn’t because they don’t understand heart they don’t understand the brutish nature which is important to deal with and and like that’s another there’s another area with the truth how do i deal with my brutish nature like how do i deal with the fact that you know sometimes i just want to punch somebody out is a solution to a problem or or scream at somebody is a solution to a problem and yet i know i know that’s not the best way but i’m always fighting with myself right and and and most people don’t even like i tell them no no no go stare at a wall for 20 minutes by yourself sit down and stare at a wall in a small room for 20 minutes i bet you can’t they and they would they they’re like i could do and i’m gonna go do it go do it and and they can’t they know they can’t too right but they don’t want to admit it and it’s like well that’s where the church could say look we can help you with that self-control problem like you know there’s stuff going on that you don’t understand but we have some insight into that maybe we don’t understand it but we at least can offer you some tells some some insight some help right yeah it’s just i don’t know i just hate how loud everything is all the time and yeah but on the other hand i don’t know if i really want to stare at a wall for 20 minutes but you’d stare at an icon or a crucifix or a monstrance for 20 minutes wouldn’t you oh yeah maybe an hour even yeah yeah can you is the real question because that’s it that’s when people ask me what’s the measure of a man that’s what i tell them your ability to stare at a blank wall for some amount of time is a really good measure of what kind of person you are whether or not you’re really say a person worthy of being a person at some point like and and it because it what is it about staring at a wall that makes you worthy of being a person well look i mean so i have this video on navigating patterns which i i put a link to earlier in the chat right where i talk about the three frames and so that you know you can it’s easy to see well you know i have conflicts with nature because things in nature eat me or give me poison ivy or you know there’s i can drown or there’s storms like you can get you can get you can get cold you can die in cold right there’s all all your lightning could strike you there’s all kinds of ways nature and that’s obvious right and then you know i have conflicts with other people like all that’s well pretty much me i have conflicts with every other person i’ve ever been around because i’m disagreeable right but that’s easy to see but the thing that people don’t understand is the third frame so there’s you with nature you with others and you with yourself and people don’t realize you have inner conflicts all the time and a lot of people a lot of the modern work for example is um is is really horrible because they talk about trauma as if it’s well yeah um oh who’s the guy gaber mate he’s a you know he’s one of these trauma peddlers well it’s really the your problem is trauma it’s like no no no no no that’s not your stupid problem everybody gets trapped some people could be their trauma no no no trauma no no trauma is a universal the way he talks about it so everybody has trauma like everybody’s parents traumatize them because everybody’s parents are imperfect and growing up traumatizes you because you have a nice world view and then you grow into a greater intellect and now that world view has to change and that’s painful and like and and you know for me i hope it’s still happening right like there’s still this traumatic aspect to learning more stuff in the world or learning more stuff about the world or meeting more people in the world we’re not taking that into account like you have forces inside of you that are causing you not to act in the way that other parts of you want you to act like and people are not acknowledging that so how does that explain are you saying like there’s a part of me that wants to stare at a blank wall yes because mark mark lefebvre challenged you to do it and i bet you you can’t you know but there’s a there’s a there’s look and it’s not universal for everybody because everybody’s struggles are not universal obviously that’s another thing the church could could could preach on right and and and talk about i have never judged somebody for a uh never judged somebody harshly for advice that you’re not tempted to exactly exactly because for me i mean there’s lots of instances and i used to look i was i was careful when i was younger and i’d like to think i used it judiciously i used to backhand people and and and it worked oddly enough with the people i chose to backhand uh but there were a couple people uh that i lived with especially in the hippies i i i was very clear with them this will be the last day on earth if you do that and i’m not even and they knew i was not even remotely joking especially not when i was younger man i would take you out like that i i knew karate i was really fast i was unbelievably fast actually um and i had no compunction at all i was like your life is not worth anything to me i’m so sorry you will not steal from me because i will take you off this planet faster than you can say boo i have no compunction at all and they knew i they knew that was my attitude but but that’s something i struggle with because i’m quite capable of breaking people’s bones and killing them on the spot like i learned a lot of stuff in karate and it was not good stuff it was all name and kill stuff they did not teach me how to disable people they did not teach me any of that unfortunately so i had to go to jujitsu school for that yeah well there’s a there’s a better way to teach martial arts for sure there’s different ways there’s different and and they just look my early schools they didn’t teach that they they taught if you’re going to get in a fight you’re going to win and winning means disabling the other person and there’s games yeah yeah and you know that’s real and like that’s what makes ender’s game good is that you can see that struggle within him he struggles with the fact that i need to end the fight and the way to end the fight is to take the other person out either disable or kill them and he understands that there is a line where that is true and he’s constantly struggling with that line when do i step in when do i be diplomatic about it when is when is the diplomacy not working right and and so that’s why struggles for sure right because look i mean i’ve punched holes in walls i’ve broken equipment all over the place like it is no joke i mean i never i don’t do it very often right but i have done it because i you know it’s not an anger management problem see because what you what you mere mortals don’t understand is anger is for the weak okay i don’t have any anger i have rage okay that’s what i have the rage may seem to you like anger but you don’t understand rage if you uh if you think i get angry i don’t even get angry uh i get passionate about things which is nice but yeah you haven’t you won’t see you won’t see me actually anger anger but four seconds before you uh before you take off from this mortal world uh that’s that’s me like i’m very much trying to tame the monster 24 seven and other people have other struggles like that but we all have struggles like that whether it’s our you know uh our our sexual desire right or like i have a general gluttony problem you put food in front of me and i will eat all like i have a real problem because shopping once a week is very hard because if i have an amount of food in the house i tend to think well i should make all of the spaghetti and eat it now even though it’s four meals worth like that that i have a real problem with things like that save it for leftovers it doesn’t right but but i don’t want to because i’m gladness by nature i’m like i and when i was young it didn’t matter because i could eat for you know four meals worth of spaghetti in a single sitting and it didn’t bother me nowadays i do that and i’m i’m going to be uh you know half on the floor uh for for about four days but but we all have struggles like that right we all have struggles like that where we yell when we don’t mean to or oh we don’t stick up for ourselves when we know we should right it goes both ways we all have those struggles and nobody is acknowledging that everyone’s just pretending like they’re all perfect little kids and then when when something goes wrong they blame trauma or they blame their parents or they blame the system or they blame capitalism right the mind control space dragon of capitalism see navigating patterns for mind control space dragons of capitalism right like they’ve got all these tricks where the thing they should be blaming is their own lack of self-control right and that’s one of the things that peterson points out rather brilliantly yeah well where does the lack of self-control come from adam and eve lack of yeah adam original sin right lack of training right i mean a lot of people turn to stoicism for a reason and still look i’m a i’m a stoic i’m a big fan and stoicism right but stoicism doesn’t give you a why but man if you’re in trouble get stoic first right and and yeah lauren made a good comment women blame men and then blame women right i mean where do the incels come from who are they blaming and what does peterson tell them he says if it’s all women it’s not women it’s not hot right it’s just some Aristotelian logic what if people not know about Aristotle they don’t know where is Aristotelian logic like they didn’t think it through at all right this is the whole point they’re not self-aware yeah yeah it’s it’s difficult because you have to do it yourself in order for it to be real like you got to get in into the arena every every day and say all right flesh here we go again see see see this gives me an idea father eric maybe maybe you can’t or won’t do this or whatever and like fair enough but can you imagine a youtube channel where somebody actually every morning turned on their camera and said that into the camera and then prayed for whatever strength for whatever thing they were working on in that moment and they did it every freaking day like every actual day because see that’s the power there’s a dan boncino right he’s on uh you know he’s one of the conservative podcaster guys right he’s been he’s been posting on twitter every freaking day today is blah blah blah the date and uh and um joe biden is the worst president in u.s history every day he posts this every freaking day and the power of that is amazing like even if you disagree with him you have to pay attention to it in some sense because he’s doing it every day and and that’s the thing like that’s that’s it like just doing it every day for like a year and then two years and then three years talking about the struggles you know like one of the one of the deep critiques of the catholic church will say is that they they refuse to talk about the scandals they refused right they they don’t just say look we did this and this was they know one of the most impressive things that i saw was down here i think it’s a saint saint john von neumann or something church i think is what it’s called um i went there with my aunt and my uncle obviously uh one time when they were down here and they and they invited me to church um and they were actually sending a letter to the Vatican to talk about that and i was like holy macaroni this is a miracle you know it’s way too late for my because i’m from boston so like we knew about this before it was in the news everybody in boston knew because everybody in boston was traumatized by that scandal literally if you were in massachusetts you knew somebody who was directly or indirectly affected by that like it was a big problem it was a big problem right so so that that but the church doesn’t talk about it and that i think is that i think is an issue like they should talk about it like maybe the pope should be showing himself every day uh you know begging god for forgiveness for that scandal like that would go a long way towards helping yeah yeah um yeah literally repenting in sackcloth and ashes like literally you take the nice stuff smooth cassock off and you put on the sackcloth and ashes and you sit out in the rain for 24 hours reciting penitential psalms whatever right right i should do that sometime do you ever andrew you’re the perfect man for this job do everything that mark says oh gosh no no i’ll think about it hey bill i can’t hear you sorry good to see you bill but we can’t hear you you have to allow the microphone on the oh there we go website now he’s not muted nope still can’t hear you bill no no it’s gonna gotta do something else very slowly yeah we’ll try to i can’t live reading there you go there we go you can hear me well now yep how y’all doing tonight doing all right doing well good how are you pretty good pretty good i i heard mark going on for a while about church i i couldn’t help but to jump in absolutely what do you got on your what do you want to say to this guy well first off the local church near him would be one less seat dying if he actually went which one there’s like 7 000 churches dude i’m in south carolina you know what it’s like down here oh yeah sir i’m just a little bit north of yeah but whichever one’s dying would would have one less empty seat if you win every sunday well i usually i usually head out to that silly orthodox church since i know somebody there and then and the father told me to come back you need to come back and i was like yeah but you know sounds reasonable if people see you especially if you’re representing your church wearing a shirt or whatever if people see you in the community volunteering at the football games basketball games buying shirts for the local rec teams things like that people get involved i don’t know the most common thing i hear people talk about when they talk bad about christians or christianity is they call us hypocrites because they don’t see the works you have to be in the forefront seeing the works if you know i mean why is why is woke so popular right right why is it so prevalent because it’s in the forefront right if if we’re just sitting in our pews on sunday and we’re not actively out in the community feeding people when they’re hungry helping grandma fix her porch you know then then we can’t complain when the church ain’t doing nothing when it ain’t going nowhere but if you’re looking to fill seats it didn’t even have to be your church right if you’re if you’re wanting a strong community you know you have to be in the community making it strong people see that might take two years three years but if two people show up to the church just because they saw someone faithfully helping their fellow person then that’s a win yeah i don’t i don’t disagree with you at all bill like i think that i think that’s also right right but you have to know it’s the church that’s doing it first off and and you also have to be able to reach the people that aren’t in the community because we have people who aren’t in community anymore and we need to bring them back to community and that’s what peterson does peterson says i know you’re stuck in your individualistic solipsistic little ego world by yourself online because you’re virtually not alone as rim gris would say right but you’re not in your community where you live and that’s a problem so we need to get you back into your community and how do we do that well first clean your room and then think about your community like think about all the things you can engage with like peterson has a whole method so are you part of a community mark no i’m i’m i look i can’t there’s a lot of stuff i can’t do because i’m sick so it’s not i can’t just go out and start working on stuff because i’ll pass out basically so no i’m i’m not i mean i and i moved down here because to some extent i knew that was going to happen right or i knew it was a possibility and i needed a cheaper cheaper way to live i couldn’t i couldn’t keep up the pace i was keeping up in massachusetts okay yeah i’m reaching people online and sending them out into their communities right so if you if you think about joey’s original project uh or who’s who’s talking about that uh somebody else is talking about it too right like that like we’ve had a lot of success with that on awakening from the meaning crisis because that was always our mission was get these these people offline what are they gonna get them going in their communities and uh and engaging with the people around them and and we got them off the verveki server off of discord out of their stupid video game lands and you know into the real world because i think that’s where the most urgent need is not not that anything bill’s saying is not super important that’s also important and i talked about that before like if the catholics are out helping people i don’t see it and which isn’t to say much because yeah i’m not super into the community because i can’t be but also uh some of the other churches are very visible compared to the catholics at least in this area so if i’m not seeing it i there’s nothing to exempt there’s nothing being exemplified there so there’s nothing to emulate well look us bab just got it figured out man we wear bright yellow shirts that say volunteer on okay and our church you know anytime we’re out we make sure we’re representing so people know where to go you know paul paul talked about what peterson was doing a lot and he he kept he kept conflating it to um uh i can’t remember the name but a famous evangelist right you know but uh jordan peterson didn’t have anybody you know to to step in and help that’s what paul was doing right you know he was colonizing people’s minds after jordan peterson blew open the door you know what i’m saying and and and that’s what you’re talking about doing as well so you know we have to we have to learn how to capitalize on those moments you know and so that’s what you’re doing right now that’s what father eric’s doing you know he’s right a unified voice though is is kind of needed but you know i mean there’s so many different people out there there’s so many different ways of seeing things i mean i don’t even agree with hat with with most of the things that it goes on in my church but i’m still there active active because you know it’s the best thing i got you know and so that’s really important too i mean this is what we were talking about earlier right it’s important to know that people don’t agree but they’re willing to go along anyway like people don’t understand that because they think they have so many options in the world that if they don’t agree with something look if i don’t agree with my wife about this important thing i can just get a divorce right if i if i don’t agree about a religious issue with somebody then uh i don’t have to date them anymore right i don’t have to work through the hard work of getting on the same page as them religiously i can just say you know what you know you’re a baptist and i’m a catholic so i’m not going to take you anymore like no you want to work those things through right and and we don’t see anybody doing that either and that’s another signal that’s kind of missing from the world i think i remember reading about jrr tokeen’s uh life of courtship he he was a catholic and he married a protestant and then he basically said hey you should become catholic and she did so that that’s got sorted out pretty quick and that’s the thing it can right but but you have to go through the fire to get to the sorting out part and and part of this is just well we don’t want to do any of the hard work we don’t want to accept a conflict we just want to avoid all conflict and and not you know not deal with that and that’s part of the intimacy crisis like you you there are there are conflicts that it’s best to go through and have and have out with people so that you can make something bigger and better you know at the end of the day and and that’s there’s no substitute for that like you just have to walk through that fire but we don’t see that in the real world and and also the messaging matters like who are you messaging and where because i can i can click off a clubhouse a room anytime i want when the conversation doesn’t go my way and then maybe go find a different clubhouse but that’s not the right answer right because you’re gonna miss whatever you’re gonna miss you don’t even know what it is yeah yeah but then also you’re missing whatever’s going on in the other clubhouses too so yeah that’s what people aren’t acknowledging this is like you don’t acknowledge that you’re in a war inside your head with several factions they also don’t acknowledge that any choice you make is not a choice between two things that doesn’t exist it’s a choice of one thing over several other things and when you don’t have that mindset about the world you get trapped in this well everything’s just a choice between a and b nothing is ever a choice between a and b that never happened to you and it’s never going to yeah um you know the thing is is i think something that dr peterson did well is that he actually managed to paint a vision for people that made all of the conflict worth it yes right and it’s like this is this is worth sacrificing for so just figuring out how to tell that story well it’s easy yeah once you can tell that story people just do it to themselves you don’t have to work anymore right right and he didn’t invoke truth goodness or beauty interestingly and so that’s worth thinking about like well how did he do it if he didn’t invoke he didn’t invoke those as end goals we’ll say right right but he certainly used them right but he didn’t say you want you want to know truth in the world you have to clean your room right and you want to know beauty in the world you could make your own beauty he didn’t say that which is fascinating to me like you know i’m not i’m not claiming i have the answer to like i said i could probably do two or three more videos on what did he do that i saw he did that other people don’t seem to recognize and and that’s one of those things that you’re pointing out is that he very much gave people a vision to break out of their easy answer of it’s capitalism’s fault or it’s the other political party’s fault or you know news fault it is it’s my wife’s fault that’s his fault or it’s my husband’s he he broke people out of that somehow we’re all trying to figure out how we did it is it possible ourselves yeah but is it possible that you could still have the frame of somebody else wronged me but there are things i can do to still better my situation even if it is somebody else’s fault forgive one another and you will be forgiven yeah is that what peter said or maybe did he just make people realize maybe it’s not all somebody else’s fault i think i think you know what are the yeah i mean he did a little bit of both i mean one of the things he does is he very much says yeah it’s that way what are you going to do about it right and the way he does that is by introducing the pareto principle right he says look there’s this thing called the pareto principle the 90 10 rule the 80 20 rule whatever whichever version you want it doesn’t really matter right and he says that seems to govern everything in the universe at every scale right all the way up to the distribution of stars in the universe are you really going to change that are you going to accept that the poor will always be with us because there’s the same statement and he draws that line not as clearly as i did right but way better for sure but because my purpose is not to emulate peterson in this conversation not that i think i could because i probably couldn’t make that point better than he can by any stretch but the point is he did say that he basically justified the poor will always be with us by using the parade of people that say that distribution mode is inheriting everything you see around you in the universe everywhere and then and then also saying that resentment is destructive of everything through the cain and abel story but he did it he did it like he was putting it together with psychology and um and science and things he saw in his clinical practice he just he was just a complete package man but also you notice he doesn’t start with the bible ever he always starts with the egyptian mythos or or the samarian mythos or like he never starts with the bible which i think is part of his magic it’s part of whether he realizes it or not that’s part of his enchantment for sure and i think that’s really like like i was saying with father mckenzie this is this is the conversation i’m trying to have with him you’re starting with the bible you can’t start with the bible there’s no way these people are too far away from acknowledging the bible as a book of importance much less a book of knowledge much less a book of wisdom which is you know really what it is ultimately and so you can’t start there because you’re too far down the track they can’t even see you at that point and they won’t look and like fair enough and peterson somehow gets them to look and then get closer and closer and closer and then he says by the way in the bible there’s cain and abel did you know that and resentment is bad by the way he’s like what wait a minute how the hell did he do that like no no we were talking about the egyptians and like the torn-up gods and all this cool stuff that’s really quotes all gnostic too right he’s appealing to the knock to the inherent gnosticism in the world where people are like oh new knowledge oh there’s nothing more interesting in the world than new knowledge right i mean this doesn’t work on me because none of the stuff he talks about is remotely new right from my perspective but but he he has that way of drawing you in gnastically but taking you out through some uh through the symbology yeah yeah well mark whatever you’re hoping to have happen to the catholic church is going to take a long time no no i don’t i don’t want i don’t i yeah i i talk about the body and i i most often not talking about the church or a church and you know i’m more talking about the followers right that make up the body which is not to me the administration and the craziness and and and that’s the other that’s the other thing too right is what bill was saying earlier right you want you want to christians all want to get together what you have in common right because and still have the conflict but but be together in the in the commonality i agree with joey yeah the sim classes stopped short because they didn’t go all the way back to playdoe and aristocracy we were talking about earlier right the people don’t have that that grounding of the western culture and that’s and again that’s another gnostic appeal by peterson he says oh they didn’t they don’t teach you about this interesting old knowledge from playdoe and aristotle roughly speaking and all the western candidate looked at dante he had some good stuff to say right there’s oh and what else was good to say peterson oh look there’s this book the bible there’s some cool stories there right he throws it all together quite nicely which is like which is like modernism in reverse right one of the sneakiest what are the sneakiest things that macchiavelli did was treat moses along with all of the other great lawmakers right he had his treatise on law and they were all equal you know cicero and moses and i don’t think they had hamarabi’s code just lump him in there yeah but it was just and nobody called them out on it because it was the early renaissance it’s useful framing the problem is it’s useful framing and this is that this is like this is when people say postmoderns have a point that’s usually the point it’s the point of a three-year-old unfortunately but they do have a point but every three-year-old has the same point and that’s that again is the problem yeah they have a point but it’s not an important enough point it’s not a good enough point it’s not a sufficient enough point which doesn’t mean you can dismiss it but it also doesn’t mean it’s at the top of the hierarchy of points right which is where you get into trouble uh father the um that what you were just talking about was that a heavily catholic area or heavily protestant area when that was going on macchiavelli he was italian so um but i think when he was writing it was just before the protestant reformation went through oh i think it was published like i’m sorry go ahead yeah i think i think the prince was published or like written in like 1715 or something or 1517 1515 1515 there somewhere around there all right good one thing i was gonna say i i’ve noticed so i’m not affiliated with uh with with catholicism at all i have very little uh understanding or or um uh experience with it but in in the protestant world especially the baptist world the moment you start mentioning moses man it’s all that that’s that’s all man-made junk we don’t need it right so if that was a protestant time i could i could understand why he why he would you know he was kind of the tip of the spear he was like part of the tip of the spear on that thinking yeah and you know it does a great disservice to us especially in a protestant church you know because there’s so many there’s so much concepts that cannot be understood without understanding moses first you know and uh i i think it’s a great detriment to our society as a whole yeah yeah and uh you know is not having uh is not having things that we regard as sacred working out well for our country because um the biggest religion i think the biggest religious processions in this country are the pride parades they’ve got they’ve got their whole their whole month um that’s i don’t know yeah we’ve we’ve we’ve done that topic to death um well i i’ll say this and something i find hilarious you know all day long every day we’re bombarded with secularism you know turn on radio turn on tv get talked to somebody go to gas station you’re just bombarded with secular thought the moment you even start to bring jesus up oh man you’ve done something wrong you know you’re an evil person you know get away from you know it’s like that’s not meant for here that’s meant for church no i i think that’s the problem when we relegate this spiritual conversation to just church right we’re our just home you know we we have we have an issue right you know you know the teachings in the bible are awesome right there they you know i i was turned from a very very bad person into a kind of okay person you know after years of study and spiritual guidance you know but a lot of people need need spirit just to spirit on right you know they don’t have to have the the learning and understanding at first it comes with time salvation is a lifelong pursuit don’t happen overnight right but relief especially especially from spiritual matters can happen you know overnight right if you’re going through a 10 worth of trouble and you know your spirit’s lesson to where you got eight out of ten of trouble that’s a big difference to somebody who’s in who’s in a struggle you know and the fact that we limit our spiritualness to small corners of our lives is i think is a judgment yeah yeah but then we’ve also got that admonition to to not throw our pearls before swine unless they devour them and turn and trample you so you’ve got to got to be you got to have a certain certain finesse to know when to speak and when to be silent certain spiritual wisdom okay yes yes and that that comes from that that comes from many many years some people are blessed with it the other people takes a long time to figure it out i sure ain’t figured out the right time yet um yeah i try i don’t stop but you know i mean everything’s contextual you know because it you know it you know prison ministry is good a lot of good comes out of prison ministry you know but you know if you’re not careful you can get yourself in trouble you know but you know just like what i do with the with the foster care right you know you know there there there’s some there’s some children that will just cause so much havoc in my house that i can’t come in you know but then there’s other children that the havoc’s worth it you know the the whirlwind of trouble that they bring is worth it as long as you can mitigate the mitigate it from flowing over to the other children and causing them issues or bringing so much turmoil into your own life where you’re no longer able to to serve the mission you know um but yes sometimes you just you got to put yourself in some real uncomfortable places and and dig through it and and and sometimes you won’t see anything good come from it and then other times it’s 10 years later is like oh my a lot of good come from that but i was so wrapped up in it i couldn’t yeah yeah well well and i think i think that’s part of the problem is this idea of silence it’s not because i don’t think that’s accurate i think it’s maybe silent about the spiritual aspect or silent about jesus but but never silent like i think that’s a mistake i think you know which is which is interesting because so ironic that i say this today so this morning uh we on the verveki server we had this one kid come on and he was doing really well we turned him around in like two months record time started a job he got out he got part of a band he’s really into music and then excuse me a couple weeks ago he dropped some mushrooms and since then he’s been completely off the rail i’m like oh all that work all gone in an instant right because he did mushrooms and now he just can’t think anymore and people were you know he was on today and he was right and i know and i know not to feed that right and this is where we get into double trouble with the with the christians oh we just want to be nice to no no no you can’t actually you want to be quiet then because the more stuff you talk about with somebody who’s had psychedelics in particular but even just pot for some people not for everybody the more you talk about the more connections they’ll make in the world and the thinner they spread their their their brain and sally joe went afterwards and said i didn’t know that and i was like yeah and she said because her friend who was a vat had that same problem and she instinctually instinctively because she has good intuition uh stopped talking to him and she’s like i didn’t know why i did it but now what you say makes sense i was so quiet on the server that somebody reached out to me and said are you okay because i wasn’t saying anything because i didn’t want to feed him right but on the other hand if when i’m driving to the dump right within this in this guy’s pickup truck because he helped me put all the stuff in the pickup truck and he’s going to help me unload it and get me to the dump and show me where the dump is which none of what he has to do if he doesn’t mention why he’s you know why he’s doing this not that i asked right it was just kind of tangent it wasn’t inappropriate or anything it was right on target but it it hadn’t it didn’t come up in a religious context but if he hadn’t done that if the woman that i drove up to the airport with hadn’t just mentioned like here’s how i learned about service like then i i those experience i my life would be less rich literally and i wouldn’t be able to have these conversations even so it so silence isn’t really appropriate in the one case he was explicit about you know i try to embody jesus and follow his teachings as terrible as i am at it the other case he didn’t mention it at all but but you know you could hear it like it was there like the frame was like well why the hell would you do that that doesn’t make any sense like materialism what are you doing priorities you gotta look first before you can help others and all this other garbage nonsense that’s obviously false by the way right but people fall for it because it strokes their ego so it’s not silence and sometimes there’s a time for total silence but i think a lot of it is just there’s a time not to mention jesus and the bible and the church and your your irony or whatever but still exemplify and and you know bazini was talking about this it’s the temptation for you to be to be seen doing something right is different from the temptation for you to be seen doing god’s work and i think that’s the difference is that you have to make that differentiation you know you can’t make it all about you you have to make it about the exemplification because if you’re not living out the life that that that jesus instructs you to live out as a christian then no one’s gonna see that and if they don’t see it they won’t want to do it too and right and still right back to that well yeah i gotta live out what you say you know don’t want to be a what is it called hypocrite it’s not heretic yeah hypocrite hypocrite well but that’s the thing if they’re calling you hypocrite then what they’re saying is i don’t see you doing the work of jesus so why do you keep talking about jesus yeah fair enough like fair enough but the answer to that is be seen being like jesus the answer isn’t stop talking about jesus that makes no sense sure sure i mean i could think of the whole throwing pearls before swine thing there’s a certain point where maybe you you you put a you put a little bait out in the water and you see that there’s not going to be any bites you put a you put a little bait out in the water and you see that there’s not going to be any bites there’s not going to be anything good happening from it but you don’t you don’t do it to to fish right you you you sit out in the boat right and you have the net open in the boat and you do what you do in the boat and the fish jump in the net or not right it’s more like that you know which is not to say you don’t sometimes go fishing and and and become fishers of men but but the rest of the time you should just be doing the good deeds and living out the jesus thing right the way you see fit and and not being shy about that because that again because then you’re living hidden and if you’re living hidden you’re not sending out the exemplification the signal the come and follow me the i’m doing this sort of of of message that that needs to be out there yeah all about earning people’s trust before being able to tell them the good news i guess i i agree with that and that’s kind of what the point i was saying not as elegant as mark you know he’s a lot of thinky talky over there right more elegant than i am bill to give yourself some credit you’re we’re just talking to different audiences and fair enough you know i mean look it’s as simple as when i you know i’ve had medical bills in the past right and when when the lady called when they called me wanting money you know i had a thirty thousand dollar surgery with no insurance you know that they wanted their money oh yeah yeah when they called me every month i’m throwing them what little bit of peanuts i could you know and every time it was a small amount right how are you doing how’s your kids is everything going well i can’t wait to talk to you next month for you to take my money you know it’s just little things like that you know when at the grocery store you know even if you’re having a bad day they might be having a worst day you know um i just a little smile and i thank you even if they don’t even if it’s not well received you know people around you see it and if you’re in the same you know i’m in a rural area right there’s only two gas stations around the airport grocers so the same people see me every time i’m in there you know and and you know after a while they they get to where they trust you know and you know i when when we start organizing mission trips to do things some of these people i’ve hardly said a word too but they’ve just seen my demeanor and the moment the flyers go up we’re seeking for materials or whatever we’re looking for volunteers people that seen me for two years but it’s never spoke timmy’s walking up and handing me a 20-dollar bill it it’s just because you and i’m not saying i’m a righteous person i’m not saying that at all right what i am saying is is is if you try to if you try to live out jesus people see you know you just can’t keep it in your corner you got to keep it up even if you don’t evangelize and i’m not trying to say i’m a good guy or anything like that i’m just trying to show from a little bit of example i’ve learned that if you keep your examples to yourself people can’t see right people don’t know right so you kind of have to get out there as much as it makes me cringe you know every time i talk about it i think about think about jesus telling us to to to you know we’ll we’ll if we do things for men to see we’ll reap our reward here right you know and i certainly i got an ego too you know i certainly don’t want to do something where i get to pack myself on the back so but the more in secret you do the more the more harm you do to the people around you right even if you know you’re doing it maybe even for your own salvation so you think right you know if it’s silent it’s not helping the people around you and you know when you’re you know i have when i was in florida a few weeks ago i was i was with the real because i wasn’t able to get enough volunteers to go and so we went anyway and just happened there was another church from our area that didn’t have enough volunteers neither and we were able to link up and have a full team well those guys were so much better talking to people than i was about about about jesus and man i saw some some beautiful conversations during that time right now i’m a tradesman and none of those guys are so i i was able to lead and help them in the work we were doing our hands-on work but when it comes to spiritual matters man these guys were rock stars and and you know they they they were they were just killing it you know um and really making some of these people that they’re going through the worst time of their life make it don’t feel better and smile it’s weird it’s you see somebody you can just see the devastation on their face and then after a five minute conversation they’re smiling and laughing and got tears in their eyes you know i mean that’s just something to see and i don’t have that gift and i was very fortunate to see someone to be with someone that has yeah well and i like what joey said right there’s a combination of talk and of action that needs to be maintained and i think the problem with with the modern conception of evangelization is that it is talky talky talking and it needs to be more out there doing things exemplification and you know again there’s a way of talking about why you’re doing what you’re doing without mentioning jesus without mentioning the bible without mentioning god that is just as effective as actually mentioning those things and again i think that’s the trick that peterson plays to some extent that that works is that he’s not overt about talking about those subjects and yet he’s able to draw people into those subjects in a way that they find it accessible and that’s not a way that that that is that anyone else is is is going after or pursuing there is some hidden work that has to go into it though so i don’t know the time of prayer the time of of you know confession and repentance time and worship that yeah there’s always there’s always stuff you’re doing for yourself by yourself always but that’s a given like you don’t you you don’t even have to mention that right it’ll take care of itself with people right as long as you give them permission you say look you can’t see my whole life because there are things i do for myself by myself but that’s different from being a live-hidden christian where you’re like i’m christian but i never talk about right or i’m christian and i’ll i’ll talk about it if pressed or i’ll say well yeah i’m a christian that’s why i volunteer right but if i don’t see you on the street and you don’t tell me about service right without mentioning jesus or god or bible or any of that stuff or any of the biblical stories then maybe it’s not accessible right you know from a thinking talking perspective which again to joey’s point is also important and and so you know you don’t have to talk about the things you do but you know you have to talk about the fact that yeah look there you need quiet time to yourself too like these are all lessons that the church should be teaching people because again you think a therapist is good try going to a priest right they can give you so much more right like you know if you were going to market it which i don’t recommend you could but you’re not you know you’re not taking that whole idea seriously that you know the people within the church the body of the church all the christians with all the things in common that they have in common because they have a lot of common aren’t out there saying we have a lot to offer and this is how we’re able to do the magic that we do because from a materialist perspective every single believer who’s an actual believer and i’d have a hard time telling you one from the other right walks through walls and and they they know it they know it they’re scared of them that’s the other thing you don’t recognize how scared they are of that fact all right right well gentlemen we’re going over two hours i don’t have quite as much stamina as our friend jacob does so i really appreciate the uh the conversation and the uh yeah always something yeah me too always something to think about when i’m trying to get to sleep on a sunday night uh thank you father for the uh for hosting these and for uh you know giving me the opportunity on the stage to try and help you and and and you know it’s it’s great that bill’s here because he can talk about this in a way that i that i unfortunately can’t right and it’s good to hear andrew’s perspectives and get everybody’s questions and joey’s feedback is always so invaluable it’s it’s hard to imagine that that he’s so good at this um but yeah i mean i think it’s really important and i’m glad that you’re doing it and and that’s why i try to be available at least to to to help with this project yeah yeah you know i like i like some of the things that jacob’s come up with and i’m like i don’t want to be sitting there guessing when the next live stream is we’ll just put these things into regular slots yeah i like that sunday night 7 30 central i’m going to try my best to be here something to look forward to on sundays that’s right that’s right you don’t have that lonely i don’t know this will be our our parting garment but that lonely sunday night feeling when you didn’t didn’t do as much as you wanted on the weekend yeah yeah this goes viral within uh within your community father eric we need we need more conversations like this very good very good good night gentlemen all right have a good night