https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=ySd9QwRsusk
Hello everybody. I’m here with Nodrik, my first guest, first repeat guest as well. She’s joining me to talk about Ukraine. It’s been a topic that’s on our minds, obviously, for a lot of reasons. She came from there and now there’s a war going on. Yeah, she wanted to share her feelings about Ukraine and what it meant to her. That’s been an intense journey. Nodrik, where do you want to start? Well, I moved to Ukraine when I was two years old because my parents are scientists. And the Soviet Union would send them to different parts of the Soviet Union. And then I moved there. That’s my first memories of Ukraine, basically. So my early childhood was in Ukraine. And I don’t remember much of the Soviet Union, just barely because when I got socially aware, and if in kindergarten it was, we are going to become pioneers someday and stuff like that. It all ended with break of the Soviet Union. The topics in school changed. Russian language became a foreign language. Ukrainian language became first language. It was not that much of a big deal, was war in Russian language. No, it was on school, but it was not that much prosecuted. I’m not even getting political. That’s my memories. I remember as a child, I was looking forward until they built near the school a massive swimming pool. And that’s what they did. They dug an enormous hole in the ground, just near the school. And then it stayed that hole in the ground for like five years, or maybe longer. The funding for swimming pool was over, basically. So there were those projects that Soviet Union started, but because it broke down, in 1991, I guess, whatever was started was unfinished. And it came in with a lot of job laws, financial losses for a lot of people, because whatever the family invested in, obligations, everything became paper. It was devalued completely. So I don’t have that many happy memories, but it’s due to the 90s. 90s were really scary. And I remember that I was in the 90s, and I was in the 90s. People were unhappy. The whole nation was kind of depressed, trying to rebuild. Factories were getting closed. And for me, the safety was art, singing. That was absolutely a life saver. So you’re a child, and basically, you don’t move, but you live in a new world. Still the same actors, but the play is different. The play is kind of degraded in front of my eyes. There were no homeless people at all. I don’t know why. I can ask my mom why there were no homeless people. I don’t know why. I can ask my mom why there were no homeless people. And no drugs on the street, like people with a bottle of beer or something. And then suddenly they were all over. Just drunk people, drug addicts, people who sniffed glue. I could spot them as, like, mom, what are you doing? And I was like, oh, I’m going to go to the hospital. Drug addicts, people who sniff glue. I could spot them as, like, mom, what’s wrong with that person? Should we call an ambulance? And she’s like, no, there’s a drug addict. It associates with ending of innocence somehow. That’s very severe. There was always a plan. There were money in the bank. You will get an absolutely amazing university degree. You will be a pioneer. You will be a useful member of society. And all of that ended. Did you make the connection to Ukraine at that point, or was it just the Soviet Union? It became Ukraine already at that point, because the school program changed. So in order to explain to people what is going on to children, they would put a lot of Ukrainian writers who would kind of give us the sense of patriotism, of why it’s happening, why do we need to fight for our identity, the nationality thing, why all that sharing and communistic thing is bad, and why national identity is good, national pride is good. How does that affect you? Is that something that you think is propaganda, or is that something you believe in? Well, I think that’s the first time I got a lesson of critical thinking. So there was this story that they made us read at school about some Ukrainian slave girl going barefoot on a snow with a child frozen to her breast, and that poverty, that hopelessness, and she’s a Ukrainian, and the people who own the land would be like, I don’t remember even which side it would be, but it was a very sad story. They didn’t take care of the Ukrainian slaves, and that’s what happened, and described in poetic form her suffering. And I was all shocked, because I think I was like eight, I don’t know. I went to my mom and was explaining her that story, and she said, okay, let me tell you, if you’re in an environment where you’re pregnant, there is a winter, like you don’t go outside barefoot, and like if there is a person who forces you out, which I doubt, you make sure you stay in. So she would kind of make it all practical and analyze this story, take it by deconstructed, let’s say. And that was a key to my critical thinking. So I guess that was the first time I was not influenced by propaganda. I was deconstructed somehow. But it also was a good lesson in us as people having power not to be victims. We cannot be victims of circumstances. We can do a lot to change our lives, even in the most dire circumstances. Would it also go the other way that you got suspicious, right, that you were skeptical about everything that they told you? No, I was not skeptical. I could see the pain and struggle and I could see the reasons. But I would not let it influence me. I would be like, yeah, that’s historical truth, that should happen. But it would not make me right now or like even back then start hating my neighbors. That’s the thing. I could distinguish between past and the present somehow. And I guess I owe it to my mom. So then you get older. You go into high school. Is there something that changes there for you? No, it’s like in the high school, I was in a village and everybody was kind of in the same boat. Like we all had been, at least in my class, same age. So we had experienced the same historical shifts. And there was this camaraderie in there. We were all helping each other out, looking after each other somehow because people became suddenly very important because there was no trust in government anymore. And all the kids in my class had really depressed, disillusioned parents. Which would be, yeah, a good thing to have camaraderie about. So in a sense, I feel like you also raised each other. So you’re, the way I imagine it is, is in some sense, the world has failed you and you have to build something independent from it. We didn’t see it as the world had failed us. We seen it more as a way of making it better. We didn’t see it as the world had failed us. We seen it more as, well, the world is not as we expected it to be. So I think all people from my generation became extremely adoptive. Adaptive or adoptive? Adaptive. Sorry, language barrier. Adaptive. They could adapt to any circumstances and situation. And those who could not died. Like literally, the people who could not, drank themselves to death when they were 14, 16. Because they could not take it. So what’s that like when that’s happening around you? I don’t, I’m not aware that it’s something wrong at that point. Like to me, it’s the world is like that. I’m living in it. Let’s make the best of it. So I don’t see any better. All the Bollywood and Hollywood movies seem like fairy tales to us. Because the world isn’t like that. It’s not all like in case of Bollywood, dancing and colors and all of that. And in Hollywood, it’s not all Chuck Norris killing everything. It’s not that. In there, people were disillusioned, depressed. Artists, painters, singers, writers, musicians, everything. Those were angels at that time. They got extremely important and they were very important. Because they alleviated the pain. There was a comedy program called KVN. It used to run in Soviet Union. And later on, even as it fell apart, KVN was still there. And it was a very interesting program. And later on, even as it fell apart, KVN was still running. It was a program that would make everybody forget about problems. People would end up fights. They would sit down in front of TV screens and they would watch for one hour. Comedy happened right in front of their eyes. There would be a comedy anthem that they would sing at the beginning of each episode. When the comedy program would not run, they would run reruns just to keep the spirits up. And that made me think that comedy is, I don’t know, pure. I still think that each time there is a very heavy, depressive situation, I turn to comedy or music. So it’s like performing for others, making people around feel better. Making them forget about pain or even laugh about the pain. Make it fun. So yeah, that one brings up happy memories. So at that point, you’re kind of accepting what’s happening, but you wanted to get out. How did you make that decision? I took death of some of my friends. Not one, several people had to die for me to finally decide, okay, I need to go from that place. I tried to escape and then I finally escaped. For me, it seemed like an escape because my siblings stayed, my mom stayed. For them, it’s their homeland. It’s the place where the roots are. Just because I don’t feel good there doesn’t mean they don’t feel good there. And for them, it feels like I was in a different place. And for them, it feels like I left and for me it feels like I escaped somehow. I could talk about beauty actually of Ukraine. Because this is absolutely amazingly beautiful land. There are mountains, there are forests, there are deserts, swamps. There is a seaside. Like even at the south, there are large wineries where you can see all sorts of wine grow. There are grapes. That one is irreplaceable. The sky in Ukraine is different somehow. Still when I dream any home related dreams, it will be Ukrainian nature. It’s amazing. It’s incomparably beautiful. I wish I could go and spend my summer with my mom there. And like I’m not having negative thoughts about Ukraine anymore. I love it now. I appreciate it now. Back then, I was too traumatized to see it. But now from here, I’m in Poland by the way, it’s not that far. It seems kind of really far at the moment. So nature in there is amazing. I understand why my mom and my siblings stayed adaptive. So you decide to leave and then you end up going to Poland. So now your relationship changed. So now Ukraine is connected to your history and your family. But you’re starting a new life. So how’s that? Oh my God. Actually because of the old traumatic memories in Ukraine that I had, I couldn’t remember the good ones. Even though there were plenty and all the plenty good memories that were related to family actually. And family dinners, family cooking and stuff. That one I missed a lot. But the rest, you go through the streets and you kind of feel safe. And I had wings. Although I did not use it to sing, I used it to study, to work, to generate whatever wealth I could. And to help as much as I could, my family. That was my strategy. I tried to invite them to Poland and they were like, no, if you would here, come visit us. So you’re living in Poland and you’re trying to get your family out. So you still consider it dangerous in that sense? I just felt so good in Poland that I wanted them here. Because I did not have many relatives in Poland. I needed to think hard to remember something good. And the best one would be like stage or family. But friendships were hard because they did not end well. And society was heartbreaking. And I was like, I don’t know. I was like, I don’t know. I was like, I don’t know. I was like, I don’t know. Society was heartbreaking somehow. I thought, oh my God, I need to get them here. They will feel as good as I feel here. But my mom said no. So there is nothing I could have done. I’m still very much obedient to my mom. You know, I made a video about Ukraine on the 4th of July. My mom told me to take it down so it lasted for one day. And I took it down. Because I said in their things that she thinks were negative. And to me, it was, people should know the truth. And to her, it was like, you don’t spread. You don’t poison the internet with war and sadness. You spread joy. So I took it down. I did what she asked. That’s why I forced you, my mom. My mom doesn’t watch it. You get to say you’re saying no, that’s for sure. So there is a sense of responsibility there to your family. So I can only say that I’m sorry. So I can imagine that you feel like you go to a better place. And you said you want to get them there, but you can’t. So now you’re in this position where you still want to do something for them. And I will. And I’m trying to do my best. Does your thinking about Ukraine change while you’re in Poland? Is there a point where you started? Yes. First of all, when I would visit Ukraine, the people in there seemed so dear. I could hug a random bus driver. When I would drive through the landscape, it would look so beautiful to me. Breast-taking. The food in there tastes so good. Everything. I completely changed my ideas about Ukraine. I started loving it more from the far away. Did you ever consider going back? Well, visiting, yes. Not living there. It’s somehow a practical thing to me. I can see the patterns as they unfold. And I can see that in the nearest future at least. It might be very difficult in there. No, for sure. I was more before the war. Even before the war. It started in 2014. I could see how the things are going. I could sense it already. I could always sense things. So how did you know? What was the things that… I have friends in Poland who told me about it. And the friends were chatty. But also some other bloggers, politicians who were already predicting it happening. When the war hit, I could not get my family out because of the geographical location where they are. It’s all closed. There is no way. It’s just like they are slightly above Crimea basically. So on the 22nd of February, there was overall general news that Russia had recognized the independence of Lugansk and Donetsk. And I already knew that something is wrong. I called in my family and said get out. And they are like no. Guys. I can do as much as I can to help. You have to take a decision. And then on the 24th, the area where they are got immediately occupied. The army is moving. There are many stories connected to it. One of them was that whatever videos my friends would make from the windows of their apartments with the soldiers and tanks. When I would show it to my Russian friends, they would not believe it. They would be like no, it’s fake news. It’s like okay. It’s like those are my friends. I actually know those people who made those videos. No, that’s fake. It did start kind of a period in my life where I became radicalized because people would not just believe what’s happening. And it did happen. I kind of conquered it. I deconstructed it with time. With the help of friends. I was able to kind of return to basic humanity. There are some videos on my YouTube channel talking about that. We’ll put a link to them. There was an animal kind of crisis. There was an animal kind of crisis there as well. So the food and the medicine was not coming anymore from Ukraine. Every road was blocked. And the food and medicine from the Russian side would not have been accepted by the locals. There was a factory. 5 million chickens. The biggest chicken factory in Ukraine was in the south of the Krasnodar region. And the chickens started dying because the food ran out pretty quickly. Like within two weeks, new food was not coming. So they were starving. 5 million. It’s an ecological catastrophe but basically about to happen. So the local people, I think workers of the factory, had to make a decision. And those are caged chickens. They would let the chickens run free. They would give it to people. And yeah, that’s what they did. They set the chickens free. And they fed some elderly people with the chicken. They would deliver it. They would do that. And they would feed the chickens. And it was nowhere in the news. My sister took in 11 chickens. And those were kind of traumatized, scary, skinny caged chickens. That she would set free in her garden. And there would be this very sweet view of chickens adopting. But two of them didn’t make it. It’s like maybe they were starving. And they would eat the chickens. And they would eat the chickens. And they would eat the chickens. And they would eat the chickens. And they would eat the chickens. Maybe they were starving too long and so on. But the nine of them actually still kind of produce eggs. And they’re feeding my sister and her family. Which is an excellent kind of good news story that I keep holding on to. I make her record the chickens. And she never had chickens in her life. When the two chickens died, I told her to eat them. And she was like, no. I said, why not? Why would not they eat the dead chickens? And she’s like, first of all, my rescue pets. And she’s like, if I eat them, I will lose a sense of humanity. So she made a funeral for me. Two dead chickens. Which I think is ridiculous considering the circumstances. But yet she still did. For her, those are pets. She treats them with care. She cooks for them and stuff. It’s amazing. She buys like really cheaply like tiny fish that somebody caught in a lake. And she uses that fish to prepare like a special food with grain and grass together for chickens. So that they have full on, you know, food for them. And she’s like, I’m going to eat them. And she’s like, no. I’m going to eat them. And they have full on proper nutrition and stuff. Like she treats them like, actually like full on pets. They have names. The stuff is heavy right now. The area, Kersona is occupied. And they’re forcing Russian currency at the moment. All the banks are closed. Whatever money my sister had in the bank is not accessible. Because Ukrainian banks are closed. They’re not allowed. Mobile phone services were turned off. I could not reach out to my family. They had to get Russian SIM cards. So yeah, how does that affect you? Because you’re getting all of this at you, right? Like first there’s this change, right? Like the Russians just take over. Then you have to figure out what does this mean? Well, I decided to be useful. Because that whole thing gives a sense of uselessness. You can’t help. You can’t do anything. You can’t stop the war. So I started talking about it and trying to describe how it feels like. But my mom said I should not. So I stopped. She said I should spread positivity and joy and humanity and normal core values. So I started doing that. So basically all the line by line videos I do for my mom. They’re aimed into humanity somehow. But also sense of humor. Seeing funny even in the darkest songs. That’s why I keep joking about it. There was one song about a sad subject and I said the sad subject could have been avoided. If the person who wrote the song could grow up in Ukraine. So I started doing that. And I started to think about it. I started to think about it. I started to think about it. I started to think about it. I started to think about it. I started to think about it. It’s really sad that I couldn’t talk in Ukraine. Sometimes it feels that we appreciate the good things in life precisely because of suffering in the past. I was able to enjoy Poland so much. Everything has to offer. When locals would be like complaining about everything. I was like it feels so good in here this is amazing. I feel so grateful. Even the education in Poland is way easier. So somehow when everything is clear and structured, it’s easier to navigate. But when everything is chaotic and uncertain, this is really difficult. But it is a good training. If you are able to navigate through chaos, order and clarity will be like surprising. So you’re creating things, you’re also trying to spread positivity on Twitter, which I’ll provide a link to as well. Thank you. So, and then there’s the uncertainty, right? Because there’s has been a couple of days where you were literally waiting for news. So what does that do with you? I’m not gaming. I used to game in the past. The gaming would be my cure from reality. And when the war in Ukraine happened, I decided consciously never to touch a gamepad, never to game again. So when the difficult situations come and I’m drowning, I reach out to friends. And my friends would be able to make me feel like it’s not everything that bad, that it will be okay. They would try to help me to find a solution to gather. I keep afloat. Basically line by line has a logo. Is that orange, what is called the ring that you throw in the water and the person can save itself. Rescue. So rescue thingy. I will call it as we call it in Polish, the Heister, which comes from German. Exactly. Rescue thingy. And those are my friends. And thank you so much for helping me out. I really appreciate it. Another friend who helped me out was EM. That’s her painting, by the way, as a background. I keep plugging it in. I would also appreciate a link to her Instagram page. She doesn’t sell them. She only has like 30 followers and stuff. It’s just to appreciate her. And she had been through rough times as well because she’s Russian. She lives in the US. When the war started, she was kind and supportive and she was amazing. And still she was seen as just Russian. Which is a strange thing because we are people, we are not our nations and we are not our nations crimes. Anyway, I’m supporting her as much as I can because she supports me as much as she can. And there is another person that I support. It’s a friend of mine from Ukraine. She promotes fertility. So she had an ovulation block that was in Russia. But because of the war, YouTube stopped giving her all the like, sans from views. And so she started an English version of her ovulation channel. She doesn’t speak English. So she just like, a robot reads her work. But it’s still her work. I know her personally. She’s an amazing person. And I also support her. That’s why I always promote ovulation. YouTuber under my videos. We’ll provide a link for that as well. Thank you. Like if you guys want to help, just follow her on YouTube. She needs just 300 more subscribers. That’s it. 300 more subscribers and whatever views she receives will pay her a cent. It’s not that much, but it is something. And my work doesn’t need support. I’m sponsored by Freedome, which I have plenty of. The only thing I ask, please support my friends. So I looked it up. What is live buoy? Live buoy. That’s an interesting name. So yeah, I remember I looked it up before. That’s such an uncommon word, right? Because we don’t use a live buoy so much. We just see it and it’s like, oh, that’s the orange thing. Well, it’s good that we don’t have to use it. They’ll put it as a background so people remember what I’m talking about. So yeah, so you’re doing a live buoy. So yeah, like so you’re doing this podcast and you’re using it as a live buoy for yourself in some sense, right? To keep busy, but you’re also trying to present it as a live buoy to other people. Nice. That’s the line by line thing. So yeah, you’re on this quest to spread positivity. So that’s a reaction that you’re… Hold on. I don’t know if I would call it positivity other than humanity, though. Because I’m not that massively positive person, I would say. I’m more like humanist and empathetic. I like sadness and joy at the same time. Positivity when it’s delusion. I don’t kind of agree with that. So I would rather spread critical thinking and humanity, love for other people. So do you feel like we’re kind of at the present now? We are at the present right now. Nice. So yeah. Strange thing to think about the future in this context. So first of all, what… Let’s just ignore the war for a second. What would you want your relationship to be with Ukraine in the future? I will visit as fast as possible. And I will breathe in the air. And I will help people as much as possible. And I will give a hug to everyone who endured. Even for those people who were hiding. Everybody, it’s a thing done onto them. They didn’t ask for it. Feels like minority decides for majority to suffer. Yeah. That’s how it always happens, I think. So… But it shouldn’t be. We are smart enough and we are evolved enough right now. Not to let things like that happen. It’s a strange thing that people who run for power, they are not always humanists. Actually, very rarely. So… Yeah. I’m having a hard time formulating the questions. So let’s say… Let’s just go five years into the future. The war has ended. The recoveries have been largely done. Like, do you see Ukraine as a place you could possibly live? No. Even in five years. Do you want to get your family out? Or is that like… I will never force my family in or out. There is no control in my family. It was taught to value personal freedoms a lot. You can only decide for yourself. And what’s right for you is not necessarily right for another person. People have right to choose what they choose. But I do see me helping in five years, even as soon as possible, for them to rebuild what they have. If they will choose to leave, I will help them to rebuild elsewhere, whatever country they choose. Yeah. I know that I won’t go back to living there. But I will definitely come for a visit. So do you feel like you can look back on your time in Ukraine with gratitude? Yeah. I definitely am grateful for growing up in Ukraine. I understand people in there and I love the beautiful nature that is in there. And I see the potential. Everything. So is Ukraine like the lessons? What would be the lessons to draw from your youth? Things to communicate to other people. What are the things that you can see that they can’t? That society is people, not the government. The political structure can fail, but what will not fail is your neighbors. And that one is my advice. Strengthen the social local bonds. Whatever they are, know your neighbors. If the government fails you, your neighbors will be the ones to help out. That’s the thing. When the world ends, basically, the people who used to pass by on a staircase, they will be those who can decide your fate sometimes. That’s my lesson, I guess. Do you feel like you’re complete? The subject is completely exhausted at the moment. Okay, great. I really appreciate you sharing your story about Ukraine. I will obviously provide all the links in the descriptions, so that people can check out the YouTube channels, and all the nice things that people are making. Yeah, I would like everybody to respond in the comments with the lesson that they learned from Roderick Stark. Yeah, I hope we can see you in Antutus War real soon. Yeah. Bye. Bye.