https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=FcwDse9j-9M
Isn’t that so interesting that the ode to joy has that primal aggressive force. And it makes joy, it makes joys, you know, in the naive sense, it’s well, you’re happy. It’s like, no, this joy is that integrated, terrible power that you definitely hear in superb music. Yeah, yeah. And so when that coral bit kicks in, it’s just overwhelming. It’s like a blow. Makes you tingle. It’s so exciting. I’ve heard it maybe a thousand times since then, it still affects me the same way. And now when I’m driving somewhere and I have to get myself in the mood, I’ll still put the night symphony on. And some of the other ones work as well. Yeah, it’s like encountering the terrible force of good. You know, you think about Moses and the burning bush, or Jacob wrestling with God. It’s like, well, why is it a burning bush? Why is it terrifying? Why do you wrestle with God? Why do you get hurt? It’s like, well, because good in its full force has this unbelievable, what has this integration of power. And it’s no wonder it terrifies people because it just burns everything away in comparison. Right, right. Yeah, I mean, a lot of the new books that I’m writing about, which is the Sublime, is as I’m talking about, it’s a combination of two emotions of both kind of pain and pleasure, of excitement and fear at the same time. So you’re confronting something that kind of intimidates you, but is so awesome that you can, you know, you’re just overwhelmed. And the confluence of two emotions, opposing emotions at the same time, is very, very powerful for a human being. Yeah, I’ve just written a book that I’m gonna publish next year that’s called an ABC of Childhood Tragedy. And it’s a combination of dark humor and beauty. It’s the same, we’re trying to, we’re experimenting with exactly the same thing. That paradoxical juxtaposition of dark and light emotions, there is something sublime about that and something awe-inspiring about that. I guess it’s part of bringing what’s dark into the light or subsuming it under the light maybe. So why the Sublime? What are you pursuing there? Well, the reason, you know, the ultimate in sublime is, to me, so the way I look at it is being a human being and being socialized is a kind of a world, there’s a limit, a circle that we have to live inside, certain codes and conventions that we have to abide by. And we all do that. And the codes and conventions for fifth century BC China are not the same as what we have now, but there’s still that limit. And what humans are attracted to what lies beyond that limit. It’s just part of our nature. It’s the first part of it. And when we explore beyond the social limits and codes and things we’re supposed to do and ways we’re supposed to act, it’s deeply exciting and thrilling. There’s also that element of fear involved, right? Yeah, I think that’s a better, what would you call it, formulation than Nietzsche’s idea of will to power is the desire to exist on that sublime edge. And that is the border between order and chaos that you’re describing, right? Yeah. And the thing, and that is the source of meaning itself. I mean, that’s why I think music is so powerful is because it plays with predictable forms, but continually adds that level of unpredictability and beautiful, you know how in any kind of music, the simplest music, someone who’s good at it, country music, there’ll be a key shift or a twang on the string or something that moves. Or something discordant. Yes, exactly. And then integrated within sort of a higher unity. And it’s deeply meaningful. It puts you on that edge of the sublime. And we do find the meaning that helps sustain us in life exactly at that place. That’s something more deeply real than anything else. And so the ultimate thing beyond that limit is death itself. And the word sublime means up to the threshold of a door or sublimin, limin being the limit. Right, like subliminal. And so I’ve been meaning to write this book for 15 years and I got distracted, but then about three years ago, I nearly died myself. I had a stroke and I came just an inch away from dying myself. I was driving my car. And so some of the experience, the near death experience and what it kind of taught me and how it sort of remained with me three years later and how I kind of feel it in my bones and how it altered how I look at the world and everything around me is to me, the kind of the ultimate sublime experience. So now, unfortunately, I’m able to write about this in a way that’s actually very personal and experiential instead of just purely intellectual. Why unfortunately? Because of the price you had to pay for it? Yeah, the price is I can’t take a walk. I can’t do the swim. I can’t do the things that I used to love. So I’m kind of, I’m functional. I can walk around the house, but I can’t take a hike. And I can’t do my long distance swimming or my mountain biking or anything like that. So I paid a price, but I’m alive. Well, and it was so interesting that that was, it was in the aftermath of that devastating experience that you decided to turn particularly to the sublime. Yeah, well, it’s because I’ve been wanting to write the book for a long time. And I knew that it has to do a little bit with the feeling of death, you know? And kind of that’s- I don’t understand that. So why make that as, I’m not disputing it. I just don’t understand. I mean, you talked also about 50 cents brush with death, but why does the sublime in your estimation, why is it tangled up with the idea of death? Well, because there’s a limit, that limit and experiencing the limit gives you that sense of excitement and fear at the same time. Well, death is the ultimate limit. And to have gone up to that door and glimpsed to the other side and literally felt it in your bones and literally feel your bones melting away as you kind of go into a coma, you know, is like I went up to that door. I actually peered inside of it. No other people have had much stronger near-death experiences. Mine was more of the milder sort, but still I peered- As far as near-death experiences go, well, it’s ultimately mine. Well, you know, my coma lasted an hour or something. Some people do nothing. That’s nothing, man. Experts, they have comas for like three years. Well, okay, all right. I could have had a more intense near-death experience, but it was pretty intense. Yeah, it sounds like it was sufficient. It is. But so the sense of life is almost too much. It’s overpowering in its immediacy. And we humans try and kind of dull the razor edge so much that we can live. But if you think about your mortality in a day-to-day basis, and if you try and actually experience the immediacy of life and how dangerous it actually is and how it’s fraught with all of these things that you don’t wanna confront is very, very, very powerful. And I’m sorry, Siri just keeps hearing me. And so- So annoying. So, you know, it creates- So when you have that, it’s like the ultimate- It’s a mix of- They call in French the orgasm, le petit mort, right? So an orgasm is almost like a little death. So that sense of it’s almost too much, it’s almost like death itself. Something so pleasurable can actually kind of morph into something a little bit frightening as well. Something a little bit like you’re exploring something that you’re not supposed to be exploring. Oh, you see that in the ease in which laughter and tears can be interchanged, right? You see that with children, they can switch from laughter to tears in no time. And you can laugh so hard that you cry. And it’s often too, when you’re crying about something soreful that someone can say something funny and it’ll switch to laughter. That’s all a way down at the level of instinct, right? Where these- Right. And it’s so interesting to see the opposites touch at that level.