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And I think it has a flip side to it also. Not only does it have this kind of positive side of, well this is also positive, but that you know we see the world through these things and we can kind of see how God’s at work, but I think it also shows us that maybe some of the things that we do that we think are fairly just benign or neutral, like you said most of the world is neutral then maybe we can add meaning or subtract it, but we can notice maybe these rituals that we’re participating in, these ways that you know we go through the world and it just seems I don’t know that’s just what you do, we realize wait maybe this is actually celebrating or participating in something that’s not what I want to be celebrating or participating in. I mean is that something you’ve seen people be able to see in their lives or that’s helped you as you look at the world and realize my regular rituals aren’t neutral? No you’re exactly right because there is a flip side, it’s good that you present it that way. There’s a danger in starting to think symbolically, which is that the things you do actually now appear to you as having meaning and so the idea, like let’s say like some not some Christians have this idea, this idea that I can basically do what I want if I don’t break the rules right, I can kind of do what I want if I don’t do the things that God said are sins, that once you start to realize that everything you do is meaningful, then that doesn’t hold up anymore, you can’t you just can’t have that way of thinking and so it doesn’t become an idea of like rules that I break or that I don’t, but it becomes the notion that all the acts that I do are embodying patterns and are celebrating things, like all the things I do are always celebrating the reason why I’m doing them and so that will definitely transform the way you see yourself and you realize that you actually sin a lot more than you thought and just because you’re constantly acting in ways that although you could say even like you could say as an ethical person, it’s not necessarily unethical, but it’s definitely not celebrating, it’s not moving towards this celebration of God, let’s say, and so it can actually, yes, it’s definitely will change the way you live and will make you see yourself differently and it can be scary for a while, that’s for sure. I think that shift from neutrality to the whole world being saturated with meaning really is, it can be disorienting for people realizing that these things that I just thought were neutral again aren’t and wow, like you said, you might realize your life is maybe more sinful than you thought and that I think often a lot of the Christian life is a progressive realization of our own need for God and as we grow we realize just how much further we are than from where we thought we were even, that it’s like as I’m getting better I’m realizing how much darkness there is and there’s even more to work on there and maybe just for some people, because I can imagine some people hearing this and they begin to look at the world through, you know, it’s not neutral, these things have meaning and maybe starting to really struggle with just everyday things like, okay, I’ve lost neutrality but now I’m kind of paralyzed because there’s so many things and are these like, is this celebrating the wrong thing? How do we do this in a way that is helpful but not paralyzing? Does that make sense? Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right because one of the problems that happens when people start to see patterns in the world is that it can actually drive you a little crazy. You have to watch out, to be careful because it can make you kind of paranoid or obsessed and that’s definitely a danger. The danger can be solved through love. You always have to remember that God is calling you, that God is slowly pulling you towards him and you need to see the world in hierarchies. What’s one of the things in terms of symbolism that I always tell people about is that the world has hierarchies and those hierarchies will kind of present themselves to you and you have so many sins in your life that you can’t count them and so you need to just slowly move and deal with the things that present themselves to you as, let’s say, as possible, you know, and it’s definitely good to have someone like a spiritual father or a confessor that can kind of help you along but obviously you can’t solve all your sins because it’s not going to happen. Like, that’s not happening. You’re not going to solve all your sins. Don’t even try. Like, you just need to kind of move towards God, you know, as things present themselves to you and it’s probably better to worship. This is the one thing that I’m learning in my life because I’ve always been someone who kind of wants to do it on my own and, you know, trying to, it’s like, okay, you know, it’s like, I have these bad habits or I have these things that I, these sins that I want to deal with and so I kind of give myself, you know, okay, I’m going to do this, I’m going to do that, I’m going to do that and often it doesn’t work. What I’ve noticed is that if I pray, like, if I take the time every day to really, you know, seriously pray, then my bad habits tend to diminish on almost on their own. It’s like, if I focus on God, it’s better than just focusing on my sins. You need to kind of have both at the same time or else you’re going to be in serious trouble. Like, if you just focus on your sins, you’re going to, you’re just going to fall into misery and despair.