Exploring why： You need to keep your house clean. (IyghiLoxYOA)

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We are live! Alright! Hello everybody! So, yeah, we got another exploring why on the menu. This time we’re talking about keeping your house clean, which is obviously a metaphor. And the metaphor is relating to purity, it is relating to tolerance, and how to navigate between these two poles in some sense of a spectrum. And we’ve seen a lot of tolerance lately, but also in the tolerance there’s also the separate purity that people are trying to achieve, that’s where the imposition starts. We want the other people to participate in this way, because that’s the most important thing. And they’re talking about attention economies, there’s all of these ways that we’re hijacking, the ways that people pay attention, in order to execute our agenda effectively. If people pay attention in the way that I want, then the things that I want are going to happen, which is not completely true, but there is some truth in that. And therefore we have responsibility for our own attention. In the early stages of Awakening from the Meaning Crisis Discord server, we had this amazing saying by Al-Junon, and he said, curate your attention. And this curation of attention is in some sense keeping your house clean. It’s deciding which things are allowed to enter, how much they should enter, how much you should engage with them. So that’s the topic and the social context that we’re going to talk about. Yeah, I like that idea of why keep your room clean, why keep the house clean, what are you doing when you’re cleaning? Because in deleted back intolerance, the problem is if you tolerate too much mess, eventually you will have to purify everything. And that’s not good because now you’re basically stuck in a purge. And so that’s a problem. So you’re basically cleaning for the purpose of allowing a potential to manifest, being prepared for an eventuality. You’re cleaning so that when something happens that is unexpected, and there’s always something unexpected that’s going to happen, you have a base of preparedness from which to deal with that thing. Now that doesn’t mean you’re going to deal with it perfectly, but it’s going to be better than it could be if your house wasn’t clean, if your room wasn’t clean, if your life wasn’t in order. So having the order as a basis, foundation for action is really important. Right. And I think one thing that I want to introduce and that people are not looking at correctly is that there’s different levels of cleanliness that are required for specific purposes. When you have a field and you want to grow crops on the field, how clean you need to keep the field is different than the house that you live in. And then how clean your house needs to be is different when you have a baby than when you’re living alone and spending most of your time outside of your house. Or you’re not spending time in a specific room. And then that room doesn’t necessarily have to be the same cleanliness as, well, maybe your kitchen where you cook food, which needs to be in a sanitized space. So the cleanliness is in some sense connected to the functionality, but it’s also connected to you as a person. Are you able to operate in a space with more chaos or do you require the things to be at the place in a specific way? Is that required for you to operate? And also this is something that changes across your life. So there’s no standards for how clean something should be apart from the fact that you should clean. Right. But I mean, I think it leads into bigger problems. The bigger problems are maybe you can keep a cluttered messy room. Maybe you can do that. But maybe your cognitive capacity has a limit. And maybe if you keep a really chaotic room, that you can’t also go out into the world where there’s more chaos and more uncertainty and lots of things you don’t control. But if you clean that room, that chaos, if you organize everything, now you are able to go out into the world. So those two things are connected because they’re connected by you and your identity. And this is what Peterson talks about to some extent, right? When he talks about clean your room is the cleanliness of your room impacts who and what you are. And it also determines what you can and cannot become. Right. Because there’s a field of potential in the organization. Right. You’re making space. You’re putting things in their proper place and you’re making space for things at the same time. And that’s really important. Yeah. So we’re talking about upkeep, right? And upkeep in different areas of our lives. So today I tried to do some intense physical exercise. And I came to the realization that I wasn’t able to do that. So the fact that I haven’t kept that part of my existence clean enough means that I cannot do certain things. And that’s okay if I don’t need to do that. If I’m not going to require them. And so in some sense you need to say, well, okay, this room is for this purpose. And then you’re going to organize everything around that purpose. And then it’s like, well, yeah, I have limited skills, limited capacity. So there’s only a couple rooms that I can keep clean at the same time. So now I need to privilege. Which rooms do I attend? Do I attend to my fitness? Do I attend to my mind? Do I attend to my social life? Can I do these things at the same time in some sense? Can I play group sports, for example? And yeah, like then there’s aspects which you do for development. So you’re doing things for engaging with the potential. And then you’re doing things also for maintenance. So cooking needs to happen in order to get your food. And that has certain requirements. So you’re going to have to. But once that’s done, too, it’s done. So some people cook for the whole week in one day. They’ll just do one day of cooking. And then they’re organized for the rest of the week. And then once you take care of one area, whether it’s your room or your whole house or your kitchen or whatever it is, that frees you up to then focus on another area. And the problem with keeping too many areas chaotic at once is that, again, there’s a cognitive load. And that, whether you realize it or not, that’s having an impact on you. It’s having an impact on your identity. It’s having an impact on your capabilities. It’s having an impact in all sorts of ways. And so what that means is that when you are interfacing with the world, the more things you have ordered and in order, because those are different things, the better able you will be to handle what comes. And what comes may not be a tragedy. It may be an opportunity. But if you’re not organized, you may not be able to take advantage of that opportunity. And that’s part of the problem is that the manifestation of something like a transformative experience, right, it’s hard to transform into chaos, right? Chaos is around you. And an opportunity happens for transformation. It’s not going to manifest. And the number of times I’ve seen people literally with messy rooms or messy lives, almost always both, have an experience on a drug. And the problem is they can’t relate to anything because everything around them is chaotic and disorder. It’s a big problem. Like this happens to people. So they’re squandering an opportunity that might have been there, except the rest of their life wasn’t prepared for it. Right. Because it’s not like it’s not a linear, discrete relationship. You can’t just go, oh, I’m going to have this transformative experience, whatever it is. Maybe it’s just listening to Beethoven six, which if it’s not a transformative experience, you’re a broken human. Right. And then it doesn’t manifest because there’s no way there’s no space for it. You know, and that can go both ways. Everything can be so organized that, you know, there’s no open space. That’s not better than chaos. Right. So you still have to strike a balance, but you have to strike a balance. Right. Right. So things being too ordered, right. Like it would be like if you go to the kitchen, right. And every time you take something, right, or you make a little drop somewhere, you have to take care of the drop. Right. And now your attention cannot be on the process of the cookie. And there’s a danger there. Right. And the other way around as well. Right. So there’s a level in the center there. And I also want to introduce another layer because this is when you’re alone. When you’re cooperating with people, there’s going to be more difficulty in. Right. So you have to look for everything. And you have to look for the things that are in the center. And you have to look for the things that are in the center. And you have to look for the things that are in the center. Right. So now you need to have this shared thing and you need to have a shared responsibility for that. And then maybe even in the cooking, you cooperate. Right. So now there’s an order of things that you need to do. And you need to have a shared responsibility for that. And then maybe even in the cooking, you cooperate. Right. So now there’s an order of things that you need to do. And you need to have a shared responsibility for that. And then maybe even in the cooking, you cooperate. Right. So now there’s an order in the relationship between the two of you. Right. And you have to have certain rules around that. You have to have clarity because if that’s the chaos, then you’ll end up in conflict. Yeah. It’s a big problem because it’s not just your house. Right. It’s not just your room. It’s not just your social conditions. Right. It’s all of these spaces in which you have unique identities, by the way, have to have some amount of order and some space to manifest potential because the storm is coming. Right. The plagues are right around the corner. Right. The chaos is constantly there. And that’s why you have to constantly do this work. Like you have to constantly maintain and revivify the space over and over and over again so that you don’t run into the problem of when the storm comes, when the chaos hits, it just destroys you because that can happen. And you don’t want that to happen because to some extent it is inevitable. Right. There is going to be a problem. And if you’re not prepared, that problem will be much bigger than you can imagine. And that’s really what the issue is. That’s what we have to watch out for. And, you know, this happens in communities as well. Right. If the community is not a clear community, if it’s not understanding its role, if it doesn’t have organization, right, or enough organization, then when storms hit, that community can’t weather that storm. Right. When bad actors come in, right, into a place with weak leadership, right, the communities fail. When, you know, a charismatic personality comes in, you know, and pushes over whatever is there or forms things around them because there’s a group of people and no leader, right, these things happen. And so you kind of have to be aware of that situation. This is why order matters. This is why, you know, you need to keep your house clean, whatever house that is. These things are actually super important. And that’s what the issue is, is the importance of these ways of relating, of having an organized space for potential to manifest in a non-chaotic fashion so that if chaos hits, you have some place to go back to. If transformation hits, you’re prepared to transform. Yeah. And so how do you do that? Well, for example, a kitchen is a place that is designated to a purpose, right, like the dining hall is designated to a purpose. So when someone in that area is behaving outside of the purpose of the area, you have to police that person, right, and that’s how you maintain the sanctity of the area. But you can say, well, we have this festival day, right, and now we’re going to clean out the dining hall and we’re going to have special events in the dining hall, right. That is repurposing the arena to temporarily facilitate something else. And that is done by the leader of the group, right, like the leader of the group says, we now do this and this is a transgression, but the transgression is okay because it’s serving this higher purpose. So having all of these areas as well is like when someone comes into the space, right, like when there’s a new member or a potential new member of the community, then that allows them to navigate the space as well, right, like, oh, a kitchen, and like there’s all these things that are used for cooking, so that must be a place that is related to cooking, right, like there’s this sort of universal understanding that they can tap into to get to know their place in some sense, right, not completely, but sufficiently to adhere to the common norms. And then over time, right, like they can develop the sense of like, okay, this is the way that the kitchen is used, right, like there’s more specific norms. Right, so this kitchen versus that kitchen, right, they’re not, kitchens aren’t, the idea of a kitchen is universal, the specific implementation of kitchen is not. Right, and so in the dining hall, for example, right, like maybe this table goes first every time, right, like they go get the food first, and so, but you can’t see that, like that’s not written on the table, right, like there’s nothing about the table that says that this table goes first. So there’s all of these things, and you can tune in to those aspects through participation, like that is something that gets developed as you participate in the community. And then there’s this other aspect, right, it’s like, okay, now we’re here, right, like I have this clean house, but there’s this need, right, like we need another room, right, maybe because we got a baby, right, and the baby needs, needs this, right, and we can’t facilitate what the baby needs in the rooms that we already have, so we have to create this new space, right, with the specific things that we need to fulfill in order for that baby to be served. And that is also the job of a leader, right, like when you’re perceiving a need, you need to step take the step and try and fulfill that need, and that can be done by the mother, and that can be done by the father, right, and they might do it for different reasons, but they still are. But it can’t be done without the space, and that’s why you need to keep your house clean. The details don’t matter at that level, right, they matter in the specific implementation, right, in your participation, the details matter. Without your participation, the details don’t matter, like it doesn’t matter how somebody else feeds their kids. That’s not something you have control over, and this is where we get confused, right, we don’t understand where we begin and end and where other people begin and end. And when you try to overorder things that aren’t yours, that’s universalism, that’s too much order, right, you can have enough order to say everybody should have a kitchen, but you can’t have so much order that you say how everyone’s kitchen is laid out, that’s not, or even how everyone’s kitchen is laid out given the size and shape of the kitchen, like that’s too much order, right, because everyone needs to manifest the potential in their own way. That’s why it’s you need to keep your house clean, your space clean, because you need to be able to allow for the ordering that’s efficient enough, not too efficient, right, because if it’s too efficient there’s no potential. It has to allow for the potential and the efficiency. So it can’t be every single space is full, because then you can’t bring anything new into the kitchen, right. It can’t be every single thing is empty so that I can at any time put whatever I want wherever I want, because then you can’t find things. So you have to be able to strike that balance so that your participation in your space is catered to you, because it’s individual, it’s personal, it’s not about finding a solution that everyone has to adhere to. Yeah, there’s also an element of time, right, you can’t spend all your time cleaning the kitchen, you can’t also spend all your time organizing the kitchen, because there’s other rooms that need your attention as well, right. So there’s a trade-off, and this goes back to curate your attention, right, like you have to curate your relationship. You have to be certain about what do you want, like what is the purpose of my kitchen, and how do I participate in that purpose correctly. And then, yeah, like maybe the purpose of my kitchen is just to fill my stomach, right, and then getting fast food and whatever, just heating things up in the oven is okay, but maybe there’s more to it, right, like maybe I want to take care of what the intake of my family is, and maybe I want to take care of having a process where we together take care of each other, right, and we’re involving other family members into that process. Like there’s different ways that you can relate to that purpose, even though the end result is going to be similar. Yeah, and the thing about the organization is, without the organization, you don’t have a filter to know if something belongs somewhere or not, right, and you also don’t have a place to put people when they come in. And so that’s two purposes, not one, right. First, you need to know, well, can they fit in this space, right, or can this tool fit in this area? Like is this the right place for it? You have to know that. Organization is the thing that tells you that, right. Hierarchy is the thing that helps keep the organization. And then if it belongs there, does it have a place or does it come in and not know what to do? Like if you just enter a blank room, what do you do? You don’t know. You actually don’t know. And that can be a wonderful thing for some small subset of people, right, artists, and they can go, oh, I can just see, but not everybody can do that. Most people can’t do that. And if you want to build something where there’s more than one person, or you could have more than one person, the purpose is conveyed partially by the organization. If there’s no organization, there’s no shared purpose. There’s no ability to connect. And that’s a big problem. And you don’t want to run into that problem. You want to cut that off at the knees and solve that filtering problem and that how do I fit into this space problem? And it can be tools. It can be people, right. It can be opportunities. It doesn’t matter. All of this stuff requires organization. Yeah, and I think when we look at the phenomena of consumer culture, there’s an element where we fit the thing into the event as opposed to into the space. It’s like, oh, this situation calls for this. And then you take this new, I don’t know, this new thing into your kitchen, right? Like you’re going to have this pasta maker and then you never use it again, right? Because you don’t have a structure that allows for you to utilize that in a proper manner, right? So you in some sense were mistaken about the way that you understood what you were buying, unless you’re just saying, well, I just want to buy things for the single use. But if you want to have an organization, right, like that pasta maker has no way to participate in the organization because there’s no use for it. And I think that is in some sense a lack of intimacy, right? Like there’s a lack of understanding your role and your participation in the space that allows you to have a fantasy about how things could be and then not live it out. And when we’re starting to relate to spaces in this fantastic manner, right? Like what are we doing? Well, we’re introducing not so much things that aren’t appropriate to a kitchen, right? Because a pasta maker is appropriate to a kitchen. But we’re putting in potential and the potential is not housed within the situation, like the potential. And now you have to have a relationship to that potential, right? Like now every time you see that pasta maker, it’s like a judgment, like, are you going to use me? Like, why did you buy me? And yeah, we have to be careful about that. Well, and that’s what the organization facilitates, right? And the leadership and authority facilitates that too, right? Like you have to decide, do we have space to utilize a pasta maker correctly? Not just store it, but utilize it correctly, right? Because there’s a condition of storing it and then there’s a condition of pulling it out and using it. And maybe the decision is this kitchen doesn’t have an island in it where we could use a pasta maker. Therefore, we will not get a pasta maker right now. And the same happens with communities and what, you know, well, we can’t accommodate a book club right now, right? But we’ll get there, right? And those are decisions because things unfold over time. And this is something people seem to miss. Things unfold over time the way they are now isn’t the way they always have to be and it isn’t the way they’re going to be for sure. So you have to be able to follow a progression and have that progression be able to move in whatever nature it needs to move into, but also have it be paced so it doesn’t move too fast or too slow. This is part of the benefits of good leadership is that the leader for better or for worse. And sometimes they make the wrong decision because it’s impossible to make the right one. A lot of most decisions are actually arbitrary for real. But that’s OK. It’s better than no decision, which, you know, destroys the arbitrariness of the decision, but also prevents things from happening. That leader has to be able to pace the situation and move with whatever is going on. And whether that’s the leader of the house, a leader of a community, even if it’s only one person in the house, you still have to make decisions about when the decisions are going to get done. You know, you still got to make decisions about how you’re what stuff you’re going to buy for your kitchen. You have a limited amount of space. You can’t buy one off use case everything. You still have to make decisions about once you have stuff, how you’re going to store it and then when you need to use it, how you’re going to use it. Do you have the counter space for that? You know, if you put out two things, do you have enough counter space? Because sometimes you don’t. I had a kitchen like that. It was no fun. So you have to be able to make those those determinations and be able to stick by them in some sense. Yeah. And I think when when we’re talking about the communal level, right, like when when there’s more people involved, things depend on the individual. Right. So like if you have a big group, right, like now there’s a cook and now the cook is the one that’s that’s going to make decisions. And it’s and the cook is going to allow something. It’s going to allow for certain potential. Like, I know how to make these dishes, but I don’t know how to make these. Right. And that’s not located in a person because it’s a role that other people can fulfill. So the fact that there is always a cook, right, is important and doesn’t conflict with the cook doesn’t always have to be the same person. Like the role of cook and the importance of cook doesn’t go away just because the person changes. So you can’t play the game of, well, we don’t have a we don’t have a leader, a single person leading. Therefore, we don’t have leadership. Therefore, you don’t need leadership. That’s not true. That’s the opposite. Right. The fact is any leader is fulfilling the role of leadership. The role of leadership is not optional. Right. You can argue about what what all the roles need to be as part of leadership. And maybe they don’t have to be located in one person. Right. But you can’t argue. Well, they shouldn’t. Right. Like they shouldn’t because they can’t see everything. Maybe they shouldn’t. Well, yeah, we can get around that with authority. But yeah, maybe I just I’d rather say maybe. Right. Because sometimes you get an extraordinary person and they really can do it all. You don’t want to close the door to that either. That’s fair. But in a sense, right, like when you’re a cook, you’re the leader of the kitchen. Right. So that’s part of part of the role. And then you can say, well, we have a leader of the community and maybe the leader of the community decides what the cook can use. Because there’s finances involved or whatever. Right. Then there’s still a subsection that the responsibility of the cook is is manifesting. And then what can happen where it changes depending on what cook you have. Right. So you might might have this awesome cook that can do magic in the kitchen. And then another time there’s this this other cook. And like, no, no, everybody needs to peel potatoes and cut onions because you can’t work fast enough. Right. So it’s it’s dependent upon upon who sits in a role. Like, what is the potential? Right. And like, yeah, like that pasta maker is also going to be used or not used depending on the cook that is in the kitchen. Yeah. And I think when we when we sort of poo poo organization, we say, oh, you know, who needs to who needs to who needs hierarchy, who needs to who needs to have a leader. Right. We end up with more chaos than me be. And we end up because we don’t have an area for the potential to manifest missing opportunities. And we end up missing opportunities for transformation. So opportunities from outside and opportunities from within us. And that’s what organization affords you. That’s what structure affords you. That’s what leadership and authority and having a clean container affords you is the ability to transform for yourself. Right. And also for things from outside to manifest in a way that is most useful to you. Or even you can see them like if everything’s chaotic and something new gets added, are you going to notice? Maybe not. And are there going to be means to participate in the new thing? So, yeah, that’s also a function. Right. Like that needs to be filled. Right. Like someone needs to get people to the place they need to be, which is also sort of a function of leadership. Right. Like and then and then it’s like, well, if if we’re a community and then we have a really good cook, right, like maybe we open up a small restaurant or whatever. Like we transform the talus of our community dependent on the skills that are available. Right. Like like it doesn’t mean that you don’t fulfill your previous purpose. Like I don’t know, like selling plants or whatever the heck you were doing. Right. But you can sell plants and sell food. Right. Like there’s nothing preventing you from. It’s not exclusive. Right. And the question is, well, like, are you going to say I’m I’m just a plant owner community and like we’re not allowed to do anything outside of those rules? Or are you going to be flexible and say, no, like like these people need to be sharing in this food and we can use the plants that we grow to to get the food. Right. So now there’s an integration between these two elements where they can work together. Right. And then you can even use use the food as a way to promote your plans. Right. Because now it is like, oh, look at these plants and what what food they can bring to your table. So there’s many ways in which these potentials like they’re there. Right. Like that could could do that. But it’s not happening if if no one is taking the reins and saying, well, this is what we’re doing and this is why we’re doing it. And everybody needs to be on the same page. And this is how we’re going to go forward. Yeah. And I think I think, you know, raises a good point. The purpose of organization is that everything is connected. And if those connections aren’t tended to and you just have chaos and look, you need some chaos, like fair enough. Right. Potential has to be able to manifest knowledge. You have a tracking problem, but you have an intelligibility problem. Right. And knowledge, you have a tracking and intelligibility problem. But the connectedness is important. And when it’s random, maybe it’ll manifest as something far better than you ever could have imagined. That’s certainly possible. But on average, it’s it’s going to destroy the utility of all the things because its connectedness is not ordered and organized. And that’s the issue. Like the order and the organization make the thing in and of itself better. But if it’s not there again, maybe maybe something way better than you ever could have thought of will manifest in chaos. That certainly can happen. But on average, that’s not going to happen. What’s going to happen is the potential of all the things in the chaos is going to be lessened by the fact that they don’t have right relationships. They’re not in order. They’re not ordered properly. They’re not organized in a generative fashion. And maybe that generation isn’t, you know, in physical manifestation, we’ll say. But maybe the generation is in ideas or in say in a feeling of safety or in a way of understanding other things. Right. And it is that ordering right. That gives this the relationship that that object has to other objects and that object has to you. Right. A fullness, a wholeness that it doesn’t have in the chaotic state. Right. And I want to connect that to relevance realization. Right. So if you if you have an order, you have a means of judging the relevance of something. Right. So that pasta maker is only relevant in in certain contexts and outside of those contexts, it cannot it cannot have that relevance. And therefore, it allows you to exclude it or include. And and so that that that is a picture of the connectedness. Right. So the connectedness, what when we’re talking about integration of insights or whatever, right. Like we’re we have to use our insight and connect it back to what. Well, how can I apply this in my life? Right. Like and what what are the vessels that that allow me to to to give this implementation? And so if if if I don’t have a study room, right, like then getting tons of books is not a good idea. Right. Like because where do I place them? Like there there’s no place for them in my house. Well, if I do have a study room, like now I want to fill it with all of these things and I want to go into my room and I want to have a way to interface with that potential. And then it’s also like, OK, like why am I going into a study room? Right. So now I can pick the goal of the books. Like are the others books going to be cookbooks? Are those books going to be about, I don’t know, like my hobby? Like like where are these books are going to going to be about? Because if you’re just going to get random books, it’s like you go into that room and every time you read a random book, like how is that going to make your life better? Yeah, you need the organization. But also it’s not just about you and your stuff. It’s also about other people. Now they know how to interface with your stuff. They know where your books are. Right. They know where your kitchen is. Right. They know where you eat. They write these these things allow other people to relate to you better, too. So it’s not the organization can’t be too personal. It can’t be too arbitrary and it can’t be too personal. Right. It has to strike that balance so that other people have a way to cooperate with you as well. You know, because it it does you no good. For example, I’ve been watching this this guy Adrian’s Basement is the name of the YouTube channel. He just fixes old computers, really old computers, you know, the 70s and 80s and stuff. And the way his workbench is set up is to facilitate multiple cameras for his YouTube channel. And because it’s organized that way and he was commenting this on one of his videos, I can’t actually see the screen I’m using to read the computer because there’s a camera that does the you know, the down view on the bench in right in the in the way. Right. And but it is organized. Right. He’s very he’s actually very organized. He finds little containers for all the screws, which the project then he puts the projects away because he’s you know, he’ll work on something, get reach a point, put it away, go ask a bunch of questions, do a bunch of research. In the meantime, other things right. Put those away. Bring the other one back. Right. So he’s got a flow in an organization’s workbench may look a little chaotic to people, but it’s set up a specific way for a specific purpose that enables your participation. Now I would say it’s a great participation because YouTube but it’s been a participation that I’d have otherwise because I’m not going to fly out to Portland or wherever the hell he is in Seattle. And and and go hang out with him while he fixes something. Right. This way I get to hang out with him while he fixes something online. So it is a way of facilitating participation and that it’s an organization that he has that enables that and all the tools he has. Right. And he’s got things set up in a certain way so you can find them. Right. All of that stuff facilitates the participation with others. And so it’s not just about you and your stuff, you in your room, you in your community. It’s also about and this is where this you know this is where the compromises the trade offs the sacrifices commit. Right. It’s all about facilitating other things. If you’re in a community and someone new comes in again you have to figure out can they be here. Like will they be able to belong with us. Will they serve a purpose. If they serve a purpose. Do we have a place for that purpose. Do we have a way to plug them in to their to the thing that they can do for us. Right. That this is all part of organization and leadership. And those things are automatic in groups. They’re not optional. But the question is are you practiced in doing them in in your personal life. Right. Did you clean your room. It’s really important because once you learn to clean your room you’ll have a better idea of how to interact in a group and maybe even you know understand the different types of leadership the different aspects of leadership in a group. You know whether you become a leader or not it’s not relevant or whether you embody one of the aspects of one or more of those aspects of leadership is not relevant. Right. So you learn about leadership and authority through disciplining yourself and then you can exact that skill right. You get that skill outside of yourself and use it in the wider world. And that’s a wonderful. Yeah. So there’s a different element as well. So there’s this oh there’s a person coming inside with a set of skills. How can we integrate that person into a place. Right. So then you have to have awareness of what other places like how is the process of integration. Right. Like there’s a bunch of responsibilities there. Especially if you have a community that’s dealing with with a lot of new elements. Right. And then you can flip that around as well. It’s like there’s there’s people that are fulfilling roles in the community and they have a skill set. Right. And they have a job. And and in some sense they’re essential. Right. You need to be able to replace those people because they might get sick. Right. Or they might leave whatever. And so you can’t be too dependent upon the individual like their function needs to be in some sense. So what separate from from the person so that other people can fulfill the role. And so yeah like that that is a dance. And I think Mark was pointing out the right thing. Are you aware are you having a relationship with that fact. And how how are you taking responsibility in relationship to to that fact. Because it’s it’s in some sense it’s silly to write all the structure out and say well like you have to go there. But if you’re not going to write it out you need to have people who are conscientious of this. Right. Like this needs to be managed at all times. Right. Like people grow. They learn new skills. Right. Or they lose skills sometimes. Sometimes. And so there needs to be movement across across these these functions. And sometimes the outside world depends that demands things of you. Right. And then the functions that you need to fulfill in relationship to the outside world change. Right. Right. Well it also you know it helps to write down organizations so that you know why things exist. Right. Which means that you know and people say oh well that will keep that thing existing forever. No. Because when. So for example when I used to do a lot of consulting the first thing I would ask people when I saw anomalies is why are you doing this this way. And by the way in almost no cases did I ever get an answer. They didn’t know. And then I’d be like well if we change that would that be OK. Right. And the reason why they didn’t know is because it wasn’t written down. And so that’s a problem. If you don’t write down your processes if you don’t write down your structure if you don’t write down the justification for your leadership. Right. And what those roles are are actually doing and supposed to do then the problem that you run into is that when you need to make a change because you always need to make changes at some point you will not know what the impact of that change might be. And therefore any change you make is not going to be efficient and optimal. It’s going to be more or less random and dangerous. Yeah. And so writing down the structure also allows for communication right allows for reference. Clear communication. Yeah. And it also allows for self judgment of people in the role. It’s like OK am I actually doing the thing that I’m supposed to be doing because why I’ve I’ve been in plenty of situations where I’m like well there’s expectations on me but I have no clue how to fill these expectations. So what they really are right. Sometimes people ask you something and you’re like yeah I get what you want but I don’t get how I am going to make that happen. Well and like writing things down gives you a reference that you can all agree on or have or take issues with. Right. And without that you can’t agree on things. All right. And then when we when we go through tolerating too much chaos. Right. Or too much random emergence or too much hopefulness of the future we’ll say to turn out OK. Right. Then what can happen. It doesn’t happen all the time obviously right. But what usually happens is things get confused and muddled and either forces take over or people take over or things fail to manifest because time energy detention gets spread out too far. And then things can’t they can’t flourish. They can’t grow like you have to cultivate things in order for them to grow. And one way to look at keeping your house clean keeping your room clean keeping your social relationships clean is exactly that. Right. You are cultivating the space for order to manifest properly. Right. But not exclusively and cultivating the space for potential to manifest because that’s potential from the outside. It can be other people. Right. It can be new new things. Right. Or potential from the inside for transformation. Like all of this stuff has to have a way right. A potential way to manifest it has to it has to be able to do that. But if it does it in chaos you may never even notice and it won’t stay. And it’s really about staying power because look you can maintain chaotic states for a very long time. There’s no problem with that. But there’s still chaotic states and you have less control and you have less agreement. And when you have when you don’t have explicit agreement you get implicit agreement. But that usually turns into tolerance really quickly and tolerance can build up anger and resentment pretty fast. Yeah. So I think we also need to focus on the fact that these different spaces have different roles. Right. So when when taking something inside from the outside like that that should be oriented towards the outside because that that is the role. Right. So it’s not focused on you as a person. Right. Like so if I have a guest room like like what do I need. Well I need to have the facilities for a person to to stay there. Right. Like and and in some sense right like I need them to be happy when they wake up in the morning and join me for breakfast because the guest room has to fulfill that function. And and then there’s this transformative aspect as well. Like well we we want to have the space for the transformation. Well like what does it require for me to to have a space where transformation can happen. Well part of it is safety. Right. Like what is safety. Well safety is knowing what is where why it’s there and also having that have a function towards you. That’s positive. That’s generally. Right. And predictability. Right. You’re more safe when you feel like you have predictability and control over your environment. Right. So it’s it’s important to to realize these things. Right. And then and then there’s patterns right like behavior that also facilitate predictability right like that. That’s rituals right. So you take off your coat when you get inside right. And like maybe you enter the room with a smile. Right. And then the first impression that everybody has of you is a smile. And that sets up the arena for your further interaction. Right. And if you if you don’t have that ritual and the stat you come come in and you’re like grumpy and everybody’s like oh shit. I have to deal with this grumpy person. And then your whole life changes from that point. I like what can happen and what will happen will change as a consequence of that. Right. So the organization of the space around you as Peterson points out isn’t just an organization of things separate from you. It’s also an organization of you. And not only does it give you a sense of safety in a way to to transform right in a positive fashion and a way for potential to manifest again in a positive way. But it also gives you that filter. This is too much stuff. Right. Oh this I don’t have. I have a place to put this but I don’t have a place for for you know interfacing with it and using it on a regular basis. And so and that might be OK but but it might not be OK. And then I like this question. This is it. This is a good question. Keeping social relationships clean. What does that look like. Well look you got to check in on people. Right. So today I got three Christmas cards. So that was nice. Right. You’ve got to know you’ve got to be able to afford yourself the grace to know when you’ve transgressed and be able to apologize for your transgressions. Right. And maybe that means you said something that you regret or you know you put something in a video and now it has to come down. Right. Or you you stepped on somebody in a conversation. Right. And you know and maybe that requires a formal apology and maybe it doesn’t. Right. And you know one thing it looks like is look I went on Jacob Street the other day. Right. And I apologize to him publicly because that was the appropriate thing to do. And to know you know you’re right. There’s way more manipulation and bad actors going on in this space than then I realized still don’t agree with your sort of conspiratorial sided aspect to it. But you had more of a point than I gave you credit for. And you know absolutely 100 percent important. Right. And I felt I had to do that publicly because I had publicly you know sort of preclude his idea. And it’s not like I was like oh you’re definitely wrong and screw you and you suck and you’re dumb or anything like that. Right. But maintaining that relationship is important. Right. Because even though I know Jacob insists that we disagree on a lot of stuff that actually seemed to be the case. Right. I want to keep that relationship clean. Right. I don’t. You know we provide content. Can’t do it today because Jake is using his channel but we try to provide content for his project because we think this project is important. Right. And I value his input. Right. And I value. I mean is it so much to offer. Right. So you know leaving the space. Right. Another example is Grimm Gris reached out in the comment section on one of Vandu Clay’s videos a while back. And you know he’s a little on in my opinion a little snarky about it but he said oh you won’t comment on this. I did. I took a couple hours commenting. Right. And eventually ended up posting it on his I think he’s got a sub stack or something where he keeps track of these things. Once I had that link I reposted it there. Right. Why. Because I think it’s important not to just cut people off. Right. Like if people want to interact with you you should try to interact with them. And if you can’t you should just say so. You say like you’re crazy for not talking to you. Because that’s OK too. Right. Like you know you might you might run across some random crazy modern philosopher online like Alexander Dugan. And then you might you know you might you might give him a shot. And then one shot is enough. And you realize this is crazy person making crazy statements trying to do crazy things and perform magic. So I’m not going to listen to them anymore. Like that’s fair. Right. What’s what’s not fair is to be totally dismissive and say oh well you know that’s a crazy conspiracy theory. And so you know you’re you’re just crazy conspiracy theorists. I’m never going to talk to you again no matter what you do. Like that’s not right. So you have to maintain those related to part of that is looking back at the week at the month at the year whatever and saying is there somebody I’m not contacting that I should check in on. Right. Is there somebody I’ve done wrong to that I need to re-engage with. Right. Is is there is there a community that was expecting something from me like an article or video or whatever that I haven’t made public. And so you know you have to do that on a regular basis especially if you don’t have somebody else doing it with you. And of course even if you have somebody else trying to keep track of everything in your life they shouldn’t. Right. It’s too hard. So that’s how you keep clean relationships. You got to pay attention to them basically. You got to say oh I have relationships I’m related to other people and other things and communities and you know I got to check in on my folks on clubhouse every once in a while. Right. Like it takes it takes effort but you have to move your time energy and attention in the right way. Yeah I think part of it is know yourself. Right. So no no what you want what you are what you’re offering when when you’re living up to your values when you’re living not up to your values right. And then this honesty right like oh I didn’t do this and I’m going to apologize for this right. Like an apology isn’t there for the other person in some sense the apology is for the rectification of the relationship. Right. Like it’s like oh like I transgressed the relationship and I’m making you aware that I did that even though you might not mind. Like it’s not relevant whether you mind or not. Like I mind. I need to communicate that I might. And then I think what’s also important is to recognize the telos of your relationship. Right. So if if you’re in a relationship you should be both be aware of what is the thing that you’re participating in because if you’re not aware of what you’re participating in then you’re just going to end up with miscommunication. You’re going to end up with with disappointments in in the communication. Right. Like oh yeah like I expected you to be nice in this way and you weren’t nice and therefore it’s like well was that part of our relationship. Right. Like like I did I sign up for that. And so and when you get to the level of a community it’s even more important. Right. Like because because now you you in some sense your relationship isn’t maintained in the relationship. It’s maintained in the community. Right. So you’re like like for example the you need to wipe away the leaves outside. Right. Like it doesn’t matter who performs that act. Right. So in some sense you’re just a puppet that needs to be put into that role and execute that role. Right. So you have to agree that that is important for the community to have the least wipes. Right. And that that’s part of your role and that you can ask other people to do that. Right. And that people will listen. Right. There’s there’s an agreement of of how to be that that is informing your relationship and as a member of that community you have the responsibility to to make yourself into that person as well as you can. Right. Right. And so the problem is a friend of mine used to run a ski house. They’re called. And so up in New England a lot of people I guess they graduated college and they were unhappy about that. So they decided to build frat houses near ski resorts. Basically what happened. So their nonprofit corporations some of them been around for like 50 or 60 years. Right. And they own these huge buildings. They’re basically bunk houses with big industrial kitchens and large open spaces right to be you know communal and bunk beds upstairs usually or you know some number of rooms that are shared. And they maintain those. Right. And then there’s a membership fee. It varies. Right. And then they throw parties and you know basically it’s a frat house really they go up on weekends and just throw parties all the time. And ski sometimes too. And they call them ski houses but mostly they’re party places. But when they run those they have a formal corporate structure because they’re nonprofit organizations. So they run just like the corporation with no profits. All the profits go back into the into the ski lodge. Right. And they usually do have like work days. And so it’s organized. Right. Which is good. But if on the work day you get a work assignment and you swap that work assignment with somebody else for something else all the time the community will not be happy and rumors will spread. Right. So not maintaining that organization that relationship with the community like if you want to swap jobs once in a while because whatever you just don’t feel like you don’t have the strength or you know you just you know you did this two years ago and so miserable you can’t bear to do it. Right. But if you do it all the time now it’s a problem. You have to keep track of that. Right. And I think we naturally we do. Right. When we deny that we keep track of it we deny that it’s important then it becomes a problem. But you can see that even when you try to build say a community without that explicit sort of top down ordering you still have to maintain the community order still must be maintained. Right. If it’s not maintained you know hierarchically or tyrannically or however you want to frame it it’s still going to happen. And so you need to keep track of all of those things you need to keep track of how you’re participating in the community and what you’re bringing to the table and why that’s important and maybe you take a different approach. You know always swap with whoever has that to do the one thing that you like that might work who knows. Right. But if you don’t have the strength and the strength to do that you still have to maintain the community. Right. and maybe you take a job that you like over, always swap with whoever has that to do the one thing that you like, that might work, who knows, right? But if people sense that you’re always skipping out on the workdays or, because there’s always people, they used to have like two a year and you were required as a member to go to one of them. But there were always people that always attended too. So there was always that judgment there, that judgment happens. There’s always that judgment there. So you just keep track of that, right? You keep track, well, I don’t go to both work weeks or workdays throughout the year. I only go to one. Well, that’s fine, there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s well within the rules, you know? But if you always swap out your job, maybe people aren’t happy about that. And maybe they’ll say something. And maybe there’ll be a year where you’re sick both days and you miss, you know? But you have to apologize for that. And maybe make up for it and say, oh, well, I’m gonna do this outside of the workday or clean up after the party or whatever it is. You have to maintain those relationships. You have to keep them clean, right? In some cases, literally, right? By making sure that there’s a balance between what you put into whatever that relationship is and what they’re putting in. Oh, Manuel, you’re muted. I wanna go back to know yourself a little bit because you have to know what you can contribute to the relationship. Are you able to clear the leaves, right? Maybe you’re really good at it and you just take over from the other person and say, I’ll do all of it. And they’ll scratch your back later on. Like there’s an element where the specialization allows you to bear more, right? Like bear more weight to those who is given much, right? Like much is required in some sense. And also I think in some sense, it’s important to find joy in the other, right? Like if you’re having a relationship where you’re not finding joy in what the other does, right? Like the successes of the other, right? Like what they bring to the relationship. Well, what are you having this relationship for? Right, like now seems to have entered into like a utilitarian space, which is maybe okay, right? Like maybe you just need to, like, I don’t know, just get your groceries every week from the same person you don’t have to like that person. You don’t have to have a special relationship with them, right? Like that is a way to keep it clean as well. It’s like, maybe you shouldn’t force things on a relationship that they can’t bear, right? If they’re there doing their job and they don’t have the cognitive capacity to step out of that and interact with you in a certain way, then don’t impose it. Like don’t impose the things on people that they’re not ready for. Well, and not just people, but on structures. And again, this goes back to what good is organization? Organization can tell you what the thing can bear. Structure tells you what can be born. Like how many psychotic people can you survive in, can a group survive with? Depends on the group, but it also depends on the structure and organization of the group, how strong the leadership is. Like all of these things actually matter. And you can pretend they’re not there, but they are there. They do matter. And the organization and the recognition of it is the thing that tells you, again, it acts as a filter, right, but it also acts as a cushion. It acts as an affordance, a facilitation that allows you to accept things and do things. And it can be too rigid, that can happen, right? But also can’t do without it because it’s the thing that stretches to accommodate. And it’s the thing that makes sure that this force out here is disruptive. And if it enters our community or enters our space or whatever, bad things are gonna happen, right? We’re gonna fall into chaos, right? Or we can bring this in, but we need to prepare first. And that requires reorganization. And when you’re not recognizing organization as such, it’s a problem. And that’s why you need to keep your house clean. That’s why you need to keep your room clean. That’s why you need to keep your relationships clean, right? So that they can bear things that they wouldn’t otherwise be able to bear because the storm is coming. The chaos is gonna hit, right? The lions are always stalking. And so you need to be ready. And it’s wonderful when people notice this. So I know Sally Jo noticed this recently, right? She had to deal with a bunch of tragedies. She realized immediately, man, if my house wasn’t clean, this would have been a lot worse for me emotionally because it just would have felt worse. And oh, by the way, I had to have a bunch of people over and I couldn’t have them over if my house were, if I hadn’t been keeping on top of my house every day for months, right? And so it’s every day for months, nothing happens. Nothing happens, nothing happens. Months go by, nothing. And then, boom, the fact that that space is clean means so much to so many people right away. It’s hard to imagine. Yeah, I’m thinking of this game called snake.io or something. And you have the snake and then there’s these balls that drop that you have to collect. And then there’s bigger snakes and smaller snakes. And if you bump into the snake, you lose, right? But what’s interesting is you don’t see the really big snakes. Like the really, really big snakes, they’re not part of what you’re seeing, right? So if you see the snake as like a structure, right? Like that is relating to its environment, it needs to see the things that it is in relationship to. Like what is a viable relationship for me and what is it? And so the moving, right? Like the snake grows after you eat a bunch of stuff, right? So the moving and the growing changes the things that you relate to. And like at a certain point, the camera zooms out and then you have this wider view, you see more of Google. And I think a structure is in some sense as from the perspective of a leader, it’s informing you, right? Like what are the things that I can relate to? Like what are the things that I can reach out and interact with without it destroying me, right? And what is it that I can bring in without it disrupting me so much that it destroys me? Yeah, that’s a good point. I mean, the purpose of organization is to tell you, I mean, it conveys information, right? Not information is useful because it tells you what you can and can’t do. It tells you what you may and may not be able to do. It tells you who can and can’t be in or what can and can be in the space, right? And it gives you a hint to what is possible, right? Because if everything is possible, nothing’s possible, right? So you need some limitation. Organization provides that limitation. And because you’re the one organizing, you control what that potential could be. And again, it’s not just potential from outside, it’s also potential from inside to transform. And it’s super important to know all this, to be able to understand that you need to keep your house clean, right? There’s so many reasons you can’t boil it down to one. There’s just so many things that, because it’s all about potential, right? There’s so many things wrapped up in this. It’s all about the potential that may be able to manifest if only, right? But the if only is if only the organization were ready to receive the potential. Right, and part of it is you can’t see it, right? Until it happens, because like when, when the potential can’t manifest, like it’s not even an option, right? Like you can’t consider it as a potential reality. And so cleaning creates more space to relate to. And that changes you as well, right? Like seeing that there’s more options, right? Like maybe now you wanna specialize into something that wasn’t available to you before. Maybe, right, like for example, to go back to the cook, right, like maybe cooking is a thing that you like and you wanna spend more of your time with. But like if you never organize your kitchen and you never get the utensils and you just always eat microwave food, like you never just discover that part of life. Yeah, exactly. And it is, I mean, it is why, right? It is a why. And the problem is people get wrapped up. Science can’t answer the why questions. Like why are we doing things? Stoicism can’t answer the why questions. Why are we doing things, right? The why is the purpose of proper relationship to what could be, proper relationship to potential as such, right? And the ability to even notice it when it comes around, right, one of the things in the book, The Secret, right, is all about being able to notice something. You can’t notice something if you don’t know it exists. That’s why you have to think about it. Oh, okay, right. Well, I know when a million dollar opportunity drops out of the sky for me, maybe not, right? You have to know that that’s possible and then you have to look for it and then you have to go, aha, right? I can interface with that. I can interface with that. And that’s the way to do it, right? Ultimately, that’s the way to do it. That’s what the way to do it does. It gives you the framework to recognize that. And are you willing to, right? For example, if you’re a family and you’re having a house, maybe you’re not willing to invite five more people over in your house because that is destroying what a family is, right? But maybe if you’re a community and you’re five people, you are willing to invite those five people, right? So knowing who you are and what you are allows you to have the different interface to the potential to see different things, right? Because if you’re gonna get that million dollar opportunity, you better be willing to work for that million dollars, because if you’re gonna chase that opportunity and fail at it because you didn’t try hard enough, like that’s gonna be a double battle, right? Like now you’re a failure and you’re not having the million dollar that you thought you had. Well, I think this question sort of gets right to it. Benjamin Franklin, I still don’t think that’s his real name. Could be though. Is the why an individual phenomena or a collective phenomena? And I think that it isn’t the why. And this is where it gets tricky. One of the advantages to organization, right? To keeping things clean is to highlight the conflicts. Again, it’s a filter, right? If you’re in a philosophical space and somebody comes in and talks politics, they gotta go, because there’s an organization and the organization is around the philosophy, not around the political statements, right? And look, if you’re in a political space and you start talking philosophy, they know to kick you out. How do you know? Because of the organization, that’s what tells me. So the trickiness is there is a why for you as a person and that why may conflict for the why of the community. Although I would argue, if you’re in a community, it should align, right? But it can’t align perfectly. And this is where people get bound up, right? They want perfection. They want things to manifest in alignment and everybody to just get along and for there to be no conflict, right? But that’s not the world we’re ever gonna live in. So it’s better to figure out what trade-off you need to make to get what you need to get, right? And this happens a lot, especially in careers. If you watch people’s careers carefully enough, you’ll see this phenomenon where effectively the person is at a job to get a certain set of skills and then leave. This is not necessarily the best interest of the company, but companies actually hire people like that literally all the time. Because in the moment, they need that job done. And so the why for the person is different from the why for the company. But they don’t conflict until they do and then they go their separate ways. And I’ve seen many a company go, oh, you’ve been really good. We wanna keep you around and try to keep people around because that happens all the time. Usually it fails because that individual had whatever. But sometimes the person stays and they go, oh yeah, I came in as an unpaid intern to do X and I just ended up getting better and better offers and decided it was easier to stay with the devil that I knew than go with the devil that I don’t. Because that’s always a decision you’re making, whether you realize it or not. So there are many whys and they conflict. And that’s more around the intimacy crisis and what to do about the fact that you have multiple identities and that those identities imply trade-offs and that those trade-offs are hard to get your head around. But that’s really the field of ethics and morality, in my opinion, right? Where the ethics is sort of the platonic forms, ideals, and the morality is implementation. And there’s a conflict there. And then there’s a conflict in anything you do for the benefit of one of your identities is going to disadvantage other of your identities automatically. You have to do it, right? Because action needs to be taken in the world. So the fact of action always causes this conflict. Am I acting in the best interest of the community or am I acting in the best interest of myself? Because it’s not always clear that one of those should always be the correct answer, right? It may be clear that most of the time you wanna act for the interest of the community. Sometimes the community becomes corrupt and then you wanna act in the best interest of yourself because the ship is sinking anyway, right? And so maybe you have to hop off, even though it will make the ship sink quicker somehow. These things happen. They’re very tricky. Yeah, and I think there’s different whys. Like there’s not one type of why. There’s the having why, right? Like, oh, I go to my job to make money, but you can also have a being wise, like, well, this job allows me to develop my personal skills, right? Or this job gives me an environment that is safety. This job is in an environment that would care for me when I’m in trouble. This job is a thing that allows me to be with my family in a certain way, right? Like there’s a lot of whys that are engaged with potential, right? Like it’s not engaging with like, oh, like what is the actual result of the action now? But it’s like we’re cultivating a relationship, right? Like we’re cleaning something, right? Or we’re building something extra to keep clean. That allows for more in the future. And when you keep having that attitude instead of, I wanna get this from this, the attitude of, well, I wanna build something that is not grounded in something that actually is, it is grounded in what could be, and I’m trying to manifest what could be. And I’m receiving my gratification and my identity from that. Then I think the why being individual or collective, like it changes in some sense to a transcendent aspect, right? Like it is the why is a goodness, right? And the individual and the collective are means to the goodness. Yeah, exactly. And I think we’re sort of caught up in the scientific worldview and the materialism, right? To believe that there are single causes, right? And single outcomes. And certainly science can find those where they may be, but that’s not all there is. And almost nothing has that actual quality, right? So we tend to try to reduce things to the single biggest mover or whatever, and then all kinds of problems happen because the world is very connected. So I don’t think that anybody ever does anything for a single motivation. I don’t think it’s possible. Like I think it takes at least three different types of motivators to move you. And I’m always having problems. I struggled with this on and off for years and years and years. One motivation is egoic, right? It’s what does this do for me in the moment, right? One motivation is what can this do for me in the future, right? And another motivation is how does this change my relationship to the things around me, right? And another motivation is how will other people perceive this, right? So the two egoic motivations are self, right? They’re just wrapped up in your perceptions. But how this relates to everything I’m with, well, that’s different. And you may think that’s silly. It’s like, all right, look, all day, because somebody mentioned donuts, to me earlier, I have literally been suffering through all these scenarios with donuts. And you may say, Mark, that’s silly. Why are you suffering with donuts? Well, look, it’s a little cold out today for me since my illness. It’s in the 40s. It’s way colder than I want it to be. I could jump in the car, go to a donut shop. We have them, right? And get one donut. And that would be okay. Like, there’s nothing wrong with me having one donut. But the temptation is, well, really what I wanna do is call up the place that brings automatic food or use my app or whatever, and get them to bring me a dozen donuts. But I cannot have a dozen donuts in my house because I know they’ll go bad, and that would be a waste of money. And therefore, I have to eat them all before they go bad. And I’m a glutton, and my self-control for donuts is zero, roughly speaking. So if I order a dozen donuts, you know what’s gonna happen? A dozen donuts are gonna get eaten within the next three or four hours, maybe four or five hours. But by the end of the day, there will be no more donuts. And then that would be that, right? And so, there’s this whole relationship. And then why would that be bad? Well, for one thing, it would probably knock me out at some point, and I’ll lose the portion of my day. And that will upset other people because I have obligations, right? There’s I have to be there for other people. But also, you know, there’s things I should be doing that if I’m not eating donuts, stuffing my freaking face with yummy donuts, those things aren’t getting done because I’m busy eating donuts, irrespective of the side effects, which are inevitable, unfortunately. So it’s all wrapped up. You know, this one thing about donuts, you know, and then it’s like, well, I could get in my car, but then if I get in my car, I really should do all these other errands while I’m in the car, right? And then so now it’s not so so difficult. Then I have to plan the donut because you wanna do all the other errands first and then get the donuts, right? So the donuts nice and fresh when you get it, and then go home and eat the donut, right? And enjoy it. There’s all this stuff wrapped up in just a simple thing that because somebody tortured me by mentioning donuts this morning, rather unfairly. I should seek reparations. That’s really my only option. Yeah, or you just clean up your donut pocket in your head. Yeah, so let’s see if we went through all of them. So I think we kind of didn’t do cleaning ourselves too much. Or I guess we got a response. Why is it a response? To notice when I’m not around. I’m not sure what that is about. Anyway. When we have to clean our own stuff, right? Like I think this goes back again to motivation, right? Like what is the purpose that you’re serving? Like who do you wanna be? What is the identity that you’re adopting? And when you decided on that, like now you can say, well, how are the things like parts of me serving that purpose? Like is me being a glutton serving the purpose of being there for other people? Well, it’s not. Like maybe I need to have extensive means of dealing with the gluttony so that I don’t get sucked into a pattern that is destruct. So now Mark in some sense isn’t cleaning that, but he’s making a space, he’s quartering it off. Like, okay, like this is a place I’m not allowed to enter. And that is a valid way to temporarily resolve issues that you can’t resolve in the moment, right? But it’s not a good long-term strategy because now he’s suffering the whole day because he doesn’t have a good long-term strategy. So he has to find a way to clean that part of himself so that he’s not under control of that anymore. Right, well, I did wanna address it, right? One of the most interesting lines from the radio head song, Creep, to me is I want you to notice when I’m not around, right? And that’s very much the concept of building something bigger than ourselves, right? And how do we build something bigger than ourselves, right? And it’s a good question. Like, how do we build something bigger than ourselves? Well, first we have to recognize how small we are, right? We have to recognize that we’re not the most important thing, especially not in the community, right? And so I think that the inventions of why have something to do with wanting to have an enduring impact, well, sure. But the invention, why, in some ways, it’s not an invention, right, it’s the motivation for action. And this is where we get wrapped up. When our motivation for action is bigger than ourselves, we have to submit to other people. We don’t have a choice. And the things around us, like we have to submit to the limitations of the things around us. And the question is how much being seen and heard and how much acknowledging should we get? Like, how much is appropriate? And the problems that we have is that we haven’t, a lot of people have, they haven’t transitioned out of childhood. Like, in childhood, you are the center of attention for a very, very, very long time. And when you, or you can get attention whenever you need it just by crying or stomping your feet or whatever, right? And when that’s constantly catered to forever, indefinitely in some cases, you run into a problem. And I, you know, Catherine and I went over this in the intimacy crisis talk that we did on my channel on navigating patterns, right? And she mentioned this, like at some point, I’m not a good mother if I keep mothering my children, right? Because they need to grow and expand and do things on their own and fly from the nest, right? So you can’t keep them in that state forever, right? Because they’re supposed to develop. And when we don’t let people develop, they don’t know how much attention they should get. And that’s the problem, right? That’s the problem. I don’t know how much attention you should get. I mean, a lot of people think like, oh, I did all this work. And I’m like, yeah, you really didn’t. Like, I know you think you did a lot of work from your perspective, but you kinda didn’t. And other people did more. And this is where the great confusion comes in because we’re trapped in our subjective experience to a large degree. And so I am not sure it’s mutually exclusive. Ozymandias may wanna be remembered as a benevolent king or something. His motivation to create his great empire may be motivated by this. Again, it’s not motivated by a single factor, right? So, and Watchmen’s a great example, right? Of different characters with different motivations, right? And when they had a higher purpose, like in some ways the comic book is exactly about the meaning crisis, right? It’s in the old days, we had a higher purpose, right? And that higher purpose was justice or something, roughly equivalent. And because we all believed in justice, people were willing to tolerate the bad behaviors, which happened, of superheroes, right? And then, of course, the nice thing about Watchmen is you can take the superhero-ness out of it and assume none of them are superheroes. They’re just like people with jobs and roles in a hierarchy because that’s all a superhero motif is, right? And then they have flaws because they turn out to be people. And it just so happens that people have flaws because they keep peopling. I wish they’d stop doing that, but that happens. So how do you deal with that? Well, you give up the fact that people do bad things and they people and they make mistakes and they have flaws by saying justice is being served. So some people are always being inconvenienced, right? And some people are always being benefited. Where’s that balance? I don’t know. And that’s the struggle. That’s the ethical struggle, is like maybe that balance isn’t appropriate, right? And maybe that means we need to do something about the structure. But the thing we do to the structure is not tear it down because that’s not gonna make it better because now you’re destroying order. You’re not keeping your house clean, right? But maybe the thing we need to do instead is to engender the way of injecting goodness into the structure that we can inject it. And then as we participate as a good actor, the opportunity for corruptness lessens. It doesn’t go away, but it lessens, right? And as long as there’s still some way for potential to get in, then it’s probably a healthy structure. But historically just tearing these structures down is not a good idea. And again, in the Watchmen, what happens is, well, we need to go back to having a higher order purpose. That will redeem the world and make it not such a, you know, not successful. It’s my favorite term now. All right, and make it get us out of this malaise because really in the Watchmen, the problem is malaise more than anything else. And so, ooh, there’s an external threat. We can all gather around that. Can we? Can we? Right? And that’s the solution. The solution is to go back to an external threat. But if the external threat is material or physical, right? It’s aliens or something or losing people or however you wanna go, right? That’s not as good as a transcendental, right? It’s not as good as virtues and values. It’s, you know, the ethereal thing, the ideal going after the ideal is really important. I was talking about this earlier today. One of the things I’ve been thinking of is nobody wants to see fat, ugly, normal people on commercials. Nobody wants to see that. Why? Because even if they don’t want to be that perfect person, they want to know that that ideal image of a perfect person or closer to perfect person than they are exists, right? Even if they’re not gonna pursue it, right? Like I’m not gonna start lifting weights. I’ve tried. There’s gonna be no muscle mass on me ever. I’m just a lean, quick person. That’s just what I am, right? So I’m never gonna try to embody any of that, right? Cause I know that I can’t, but I do wanna see it. Like I want my heroes to be muscled and able to handle themselves. And if you watch Andromeda, which is a great sci-fi series, oh my goodness, episode eight, wow. So much philosophy, so well resolved. If you wanna have heroes, they need to embody ideals and they can’t just embody base physicality or banality or malaise. They can’t embody those things because that’s not enough for us to keep us going. Yeah. I’m thinking about this, right? Like, so you have this idea of hell, right? Which is the thing you’ve run away from, right? And it’s this spiritual thing, right? Like this eternal, well, I guess, pursuit of entropy. That’s a different way of saying that. There’s a way in which if you don’t keep your house clean, you’re gonna fall into a pits. Maybe that pit will be a sasper. But maybe it will be a hellfire. And that pit, that is something that you can gather around, right? You can organize and say, well, like, we don’t want this to happen to us. And we’re gonna try to strafe off all of the dangers from the outside and we’re gonna make a walled garden, right? And we’re gonna make everything perfect in our little space. And there’s a lot of communities that actually try to gather with that purpose. And that works up until a certain level. But then there’s this other aspect where you need to do it for a reason, right? Like, you’re not doing it, well, you shouldn’t just be doing it not to fall into hell. You should also try and manifest the good, right? Like you should try and achieve something, right? Like you wanna have a purpose. Like you can have a purpose like, oh, well, like I wanna have a family and I wanna take care of my family, which works, right? Until your children leave your house and then you have problems. Or you can take a higher purpose, right? Like I wanna manifest the good. Like, and what does that require of me to participate in that? And what does that require of the community to participate in that? And what is the things that I need to keep clean in order to get there? And what are the things I don’t need to keep clean because they’re not important? Well, and I don’t wanna get caught in the dichotomy. Like a lot of people indicate, for example, oh, well, that means I have to choose between, you don’t make choices between two things ever. That never happens. I’m not saying you don’t boil them down that way to make a decision for or against something, you do. But you’re not actually choosing one thing over another. This exclusivity idea is a problem. Overlapping concerns is the way of the world. Everything overlaps because everything’s connected. Some things conflict and some conflicts have to be accepted, right? But that’s what organization gives you. It gives you a better way to understand the trade-offs, the conflicts that exist in life, right? And it’s important to realize that it’s not down to a binary decision, right? That’s why things are clean. They’re clean and ordered. Ordering is not about exclusivity. It’s about understanding where the boundaries are and the things that should remain outside the boundaries should be excluded, right? But that’s different from exclusivity, right? And the things that are inside the boundaries have to coexist and how they coexist, how they overlap in the space, whether that’s a community space or a kitchen or your room, it doesn’t really matter, how that happens is what organization is. And organization is hard because it requires a bunch of trade-offs, right? Like, which am I gonna use more? Do I use my Instant Pot more or do I use my Crap Pot more? And it’s like, well, the problem is I wanna use them equally, but I can’t store them equally because they’re both huge. So, I have a limited amount of space in my kitchen. And that means you always have to move one to get to the other, so it doesn’t matter which one. And in that case, you can’t just swap them out and say, oh, well, if I use the Instant Pot last time, I’ll definitely use the Crap Pot next time. Now, that’s not the way that works. I wish it were that easy, right? And so there were just these trade-offs and these conflicts that you have to accept. And it’s okay. Like, as long as it won’t cause you anxiety, as long as you understand that that’s what you’ve done and that you’ve actively made that decision, there’s no problem then, right? Because it’s something that you can accept and handle and move past. I think the having of multiple motivations is actually allowing you to think, to dynamically navigate the world, right? So if you haven’t done your dishes, either you’re gonna have to do the dishes or you can do what you have, what is clean, right? And then the priorities shift, right? Like, because if you’re gonna have to cook for a bunch of people, not like, no, you have to do the dishes, right? Because now you can’t facilitate them. So there’s this dynamic nature and this shifting of priorities allows you to do a dance between the things, right? And sometimes we have to neglect things, right? Because some other aspect of our lives requires more attention and it’s okay to have a certain type of neglect as long as you pick it up when you got the resources. And doing that dance, because you can clean all day, right? Like, there’s always something new that is dirty that you can find. And at a certain point, like, that’s a lost cause. And you have to give up on it. And being in that dance and realizing, okay, what is the motivation that I’m trying to achieve right now? Because like, you might not be aware of it and training yourself to look at that, right? Like, okay, like, this is what I’m doing. This is why I’m doing it. And this is why it’s right to do it because that’s a dirt one. And then we can start living in these trade-offs, right? It’s like, okay, like, maybe there’s something more right. And having realized why something else was right and having the ability to compare that to what I’m doing now is gonna make that decision for me. Yeah, exactly. And that’s, you know, a lot of these decisions that we are making, we think we’re making them one way, but in fact, we’re working on structures organization that’s already in our head from when we grew up because you grew up, like you were a baby and now you’re not a baby. And there were interactions with your parents, right? Interactions with when you were young that you don’t really have a handle on yet. And maybe as you get older, you get more of a handle on them, but maybe not, like some people never kind of figure it out. Right, and you know, you can hear this in families. They’ll say, oh yeah, he’s just like his father and he doesn’t recognize it. He hates his father. So he refuses to recognize the way in which he’s just like his father. Like that happens all the time. Just listen to families. They’ll, you know, especially big ones, you’ll hear these sorts of things. You know, or all that happened because, you know, they were traumatized when they were eight. And yeah, these things are ruling over you, you, right now you and me and even Manuel, like they’re ruling over us. Emmanuel’s in rebellious mode. He’s Protestant forever, I guess. And they’re affecting us in ways that we don’t, we cannot understand. They’re the water we swim in. There’s no possibility of having a true appreciation for them, but we can recognize them and have a little grace for ourselves and a little grace for whatever trauma we were subject to in the past, right? And recognize that there’s a lot of stuff going on in our heads that we just don’t have any awareness of. And that’s okay, right? But because we can manage it, we can organize it. We can organize our lives externally to allow for the potential transformation within ourselves to get better. Cause that’s really what this is all about. Like whatever situation you’re in, you could do better. And you need organization to help you to know what better is and to manifest better. Yeah, and I think, well, one of the things that is better is attending to the cleanliness. And you could see having an organized mind, right? Priorities better set than the mind, right? And one of the priorities would be gathering the structures and embodying them in a proper way. And they are crutches for you. They’re ways for you to hold yourself in situations. And yeah, so what is important to hold yourself in a situation? Well, one of them is you gotta know where you wanna move to and you gotta know who you are. Right? Now you can have that relationship and you can have that movement. Like, should I engage in this or not? Well, and that’s wrapped up in organization, right? All of these, the organization is the thing that helps you prioritize things, right? It is the prioritization you’ve assigned, but it also points to future prioritization, right? And whether that’s in your kitchen or your room or your study, right? Or it’s in a community. What’s the current priority of the community? Community has a name outside of itself, hopefully. It’s the healthy one, right? What is the current priority on our mission to navigate towards that aim? It’s not directional, it’s navigation, right? It’s very sort of fluid and fuzzy and whatever, right? Because landscapes change and entropy is real and things are constantly shifting. So the organization gives you a way to help with the navigation. And the navigation gives you a way to inform the organization. Right, and part of the navigation is cooperation, right? Whether it’s in your mind, right? Like different aspects of yourself, like how can they come together to bring something about or how it’s different people inside a community? Like how can they come together to work towards the goal? Right, like, cause part of navigation is how do these aspects have a role in manifesting what needs to be manifested? And yeah, there’s ways in which these things can work cross purposes, right? Like cross purposes in the sense that they’re trying to achieve different goals or cross purposes in the sense that they’re trying to achieve the same goal, but in different ways and there’s no cooperation. And those are two problems that you wanna solve in order to affect anything good in the world, right? And then we can go back to leadership, right? Like leadership of yourself, but also leadership of the group, right? Like the leadership has to organize these things, right? Like evaluate what, well, how is my strengths gonna be able to help me through this problem? How’s my smartness gonna help me through this problem? How’s the fact that I have social relationships gonna help me go through this problem, right? Like how are these three parts of me gonna come together to an answer? I don’t know, like maybe one of them needs to shut up for a while and let the other two take the wheel because well, maybe I need to go through this myself, right? Or maybe I need other people and like I cannot do this myself at all. Right, well, and to some extent, prioritization is the acceptance of conflict, right? Like these things all conflict. I can’t do them all at once. I have to assign an order to them, right? I have to organize them in a way. That’s how you accept conflict, right? I wanna be part of this community so that I can build something bigger than myself. Well, now you have to accept the conflict with the leadership because leadership’s imperfect and sometimes it’s gonna do things at disadvantages, you, personal, right? But it’s for a greater good. So do you give up a little bit of your ego, a little bit of your pride, a little bit of your hubris so that you can do something bigger than you or not? And does it matter if you’re seen or does it matter if you do the thing? Because to me, it always mattered if I did the thing, I didn’t care about the credit. That never bothered, never came up for me. Like I really don’t care, right? And then to look, you know, I did a job interview years ago at a company that did the support, software support for the national lab supercomputers and it was a tiny company. I think it’s like a 30 person company or something, maybe smaller and I was very excited. It was like cool, cool sounding job. It’s like, wait a minute, I’m gonna support the guys who are supporting the supercomputer software that’s running in various national labs. It sounds like fascinating, like you learn all kinds of stuff. So it’s very exciting. And I get into the interview and the guy goes, your name sounds really familiar. And then I looked on your resume and I saw you worked at So and So Corporation and I said, yes, I do. And he said, when did you leave? And I said, well, you know, you have my resume right there. You know, I gave him the year that I left. And he said, well, when I left at some number of years ago, he said, we were still using your procedure to do something. I don’t remember what it was off the top of my head. I was like, oh really, that’s great. No, and this is unique because normally I wouldn’t write my name on my procedures. Just write procedures and pass them out and people could do them or not. It didn’t really matter. So I didn’t care at the time, but you know, and unfortunately that was not enough to get me the job, which was very unfortunate. This is really close to my house. It was a really cool job. And I really would have been better off employed at that time. But yeah, I mean, the credit can’t be the end goal. The goal, the aim has to be bigger than you, right? So if the goal is you get credit, that’s a problem. Now, as a result of being part of something that gets you the goal bigger than you, maybe you will get credit and that’s well deserved. But you have to be willing to forego getting the credit in order to get the goal done because it’s time, energy and attention. And you know, the larger community, your spouse, your girlfriend, your boyfriend, the other people around you, your family members can only acknowledge you so much, right? So you have to accept that there’s a limit to that because there is. And maybe that limit is less than you’d like, right? It’s more limited than you care for. Yeah, or maybe you can fill that role for yourself. Like, why do you need other people to validate you? If you know what you’re doing is right and you did it right, like, why, what does it matter that other people see that? It’s a great contradiction in individualism, right? They all go, we wanna be individuals, but we wanna be recognized, okay. But you have to pick one, like that is a conflict. Like, no, you have to pick one. You wanna be an individual or do you wanna be recognized? Just wanna be an individual, go live in a cave by yourself. Go do it, really, you can do that, right? And that’s the problem, right? That’s the problem. The problem is exactly that. And if you care about those other things, you’ve gotta submit to the fact that you need to cooperate with other people and other people are hella ignoring, annoying. The just, ugh, people, oh my goodness. Yeah, so that’s also a thing, right? Like, so there’s an impulse to draw to yourself, right? To isolate, to specialize, to resolve things on your own. And then there’s the impulse to go out and be part of something else, right? And be recognized for that. And those are trade-offs. And when we’re in a community, like we need to, if we want validation, we need to do things for others, at least, right? Because like, if you’re just doing things for your individual purpose, like you shouldn’t be validated because like you’re not doing something of value for the community. And I also have this thing about validation. Like you should be validated for your athletes, right? Like what is important is that you’re trying things and you’re participating in the right way. And whether that manifests, the thing that you intend to manifest is secondary because like you can’t reliably manifest things. So yeah, like, and that’s also with yourself, right? Like when you don’t achieve the thing, right? Like if you have a test and you failed the test and you tried your best to get through the test, then you should pat yourself on the back because you tried and like you worked as hard as you can get. And the fact that there’s a bar, this is arbitrary somewhere that you didn’t seem to pass, like that’s not a good way to judge yourself. Like Peterson says, judge yourself to who you were yesterday. But like, yeah, I also don’t think that is a good way to judge yourself because like sometimes you can’t yesterday because yesterday was a great day. And you can only judge yourself by the effort that you put in and whether you actually tried. Yeah, and that’s where it gets tricky. Like, you know, we want, we don’t wanna be judged by others, but we do wanna know something about, you know, their engagement with us, right? But in order to know something about somebody else’s engagement with you, you have to be judged by them, right? And so on the one hand, you’re looking for credit and on the other hand, you don’t want any credit. Wait, really what you don’t want is the negative judgment, but you really don’t have a choice. Like this is, you know, and it goes back to cleaning. Like you have to be able to prioritize things. An organization keeping your house clean is that prioritization that gives you a sense and orientation in the world that allows you to engender that change so that you’re not stuck in this solipsistic sort of self referential world where you can’t get validation from other people, right? Because if other people, right, are required for you and you want something from them, you have to give out something to them. And the best way to do that is to be organized. Like you gotta be prepared, right? And the preparation is really important. And that’s why you need to keep your house clean. That’s why you need to keep your room clean. That’s why you need to have organization and structure and leadership, right? This is the stuff that allows you to orient in the world so that you know even what you are up to. What are you even asking for? Why is it that you don’t feel seen or heard or whatever? What is the priority that’s being violated there? Because maybe you don’t even understand that yourself because most of us don’t. We never even sort of think about it, right? We never think about it. We just go, well, I don’t wanna be judged for all the bad things I’m doing, but I do want credit when I do something good. It’s like, well, yeah, and I want a magical unicorn that talks and spreads rainbows and makes sunshine. But that’s not gonna happen. So. And if we go to judgment, right? Like I think actually the cleaning your house metaphors may be pretty good because maybe you should be judged on whether you kept your house clean. Like did you engage with the studying in such a way, right? Like that you afforded it to flourish in the best way that you could, right? Like you can start introducing gardening metaphors here, because there’s an element where you’re caring for something that is progressing through time. Like it’s evolving, its needs are evolving. The imposition from the outside are also evolving, right? Like maybe it gets winter, right? Like now you need to make sure it doesn’t freeze and still gets enough sunlight and all of this stuff. And whether you’re in that process, right? Like whether you keep away the corruption, right? Like the things that would impede the growth, that is where you should judge yourself on. And how far you’ll get, right? Like how big that plant is gonna go. Like maybe there’s a meteorite that will just like fall from the sky and squash the plant. And like you can’t be held responsible for meteorites in your garden. Well, it’s lizard people, Manuel. It’s lizard people this week. We’ll do meteorites next week, random excuses. Yeah, look, and also look, when you’re organizing, when you’re keeping your house clean, you’re leading that organization. That’s what you’re doing. And so that gives you a greater appreciation for structure, for leadership, right? It gives you an understanding of authority and then that allows you to cooperate with things that aren’t just you. And then the way you know that your organization is off is if you are interfacing with the world in such a way that your organization is all about you and only you, that’s no good. Because your organization again, should facilitate things outside of yourselves, facilitate the potential. So you organize to allow potential to manifest in a positive fashion, whether that’s coming from the outside, i.e. you get guests, what’s coming from the inside, you transform and realize something about yourself. It doesn’t really matter. And yeah, see, this is the problem, Manuel. Good evening, this is about how’s they know our astrology. Well, Manuel brought meteorites into what should have been a lizard people only show, but sometimes he does that. And unfortunately, I mean, it’s nice to see Cynthia here. Unfortunately, now I can’t give away all her secrets because she does stuff like, she does this, I’m gonna cook one day a week and then we’ll have food for the week thing, which I think is crazy. I know it organized enough to do that. Sometimes I’ll make a big vatted chili or something or a nice pot roast and then I’ll have food for a week. But she’s getting to do it every day. I made food for like half a week today. Well, yeah, you accidentally made, see you do that by accident, she does it on purpose. That’s the crazy part. But that’s the benefit of organization. And then you can like create a catastrophe out of your kitchen one day a week and then you just have to clean it once basically instead of creating a catastrophe out of your kitchen seven days a week, for example, which is typically what I tend to do. And that’s the problem is that organization allows you to figure out again, how much chaos and how much order because it can’t be zero chaos either. Again, the idea of organization is to leave space. You can’t fill everything in as a way of ordering your world just so that you feel like you have total control because then you can’t manifest new things, right? Potential can’t come in, potential can’t emerge from you. It blocks you from all of this wonderful expansion in your life. Yeah, so the way I do things, which is also really strange is like, I take what is in front of me, right? So I buy a bunch of stuff in the store and then I start cooking. And sometimes it’s just for one day the cooking and sometimes I can eat a week from it. And yeah, that’s like, I’m okay with that. Like I don’t need the organization because what I need is I need to have the process flow correctly because if I’m not enjoying the process, then I’m not doing it, right? Or I’m doing it wrong and then all the stuff in my life starts escalating into the negative, right? So there’s an element, right? Like where you have to focus on, are you enjoying your participation, right? Like, are you facilitating a way of enacting these things in your life in a way that is generative for you, right? Because if you’re like, oh, this is cooking day and I don’t wanna do my cooking day, because like you end up the whole week looking ahead to not wanting to do it, right? Like now you created a problem for yourself that doesn’t have to be there in that way at least. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, and I think too, like everything else, when we engage with the world, we wanna engage with all the good stuff and not the bad stuff, right? Is there certain perfectionism or puritanism or however you wanna frame it inherent in that? And organization allows us to be, to again, it tells you what you can accept, right? Your leadership, the way things are prioritized, the ordering of things tells you what you can accept about the world, like what’s okay with you versus not okay with you. And that’s the issue is that it really helps you to live better by yourself, but also live way better with others because you get an appreciation for leadership, you get appreciation for the trade-offs of ordering things because it’s not easy, right? And you can whine about the CEO making this decision and firing this particular person, or you can realize that there may have been a ton of factors that went into that, I had to weigh them equally. I mean, I’ve been at so many tech companies where there was one superstar programmer and he just too disruptive and had to go. He just had to go, there was no other way around it because the rest of the team was too disadvantaged by their presence, even though they were clearly a standout program. And if you’re too disruptive, you’re too disruptive. And there’s no way around that. Like it just, there’s a trade-off there. Yeah, well, we can go a little bit into strategy, right? To the heart of first. Yeah, there’s people who go about this in different ways. Like some people save their dessert for last. Some people start with the dessert. Yeah, like there’s days on which starting with the dessert is correct, but there’s also days on which starting with the dessert is correct. It’s like you really want the dessert and you deserve it. And then there’s other days where you’re like, no, like you need to save that dessert for last else you’re not gonna eat your meal. Yeah, you gotta keep a can of soup in case you get sick and you just can’t put together a meal, right? Or you gotta have backup plans. And that’s the other thing that organization allows you to do is appreciate leaving space for when things don’t go as you plan. Because inevitably again, that’s what organization is all about. The storm is coming, right? There’s a catastrophe around the corner somewhere. And if you’re not organized, you won’t be as prepared. But you can always argue, well, you didn’t really prepare me for the tsunami to took out my house, but you’re in a better place. You’re in a better place. And I was talking about it earlier where like you have to also have people be able to take over for you, right? When you’re sick, like if there’s a kitchen organization where people can’t find the tools that they need, they can’t cook for you, right? I think there needs to be a way in which people can slot into what you’re doing. And we have a lot of eccentric people on the internet, right? And like they find that they are like, oh, I gotta have it my way. And like this specific need, right? Like they have all of these ideas behind it. Like I’m one of those people, right? But at a certain point, you create so much distance from your reality, the way that you perceive things, right? Like the way that you need things to be, right? There’s a reason that people, Mark calls people peopling and how horrible that is, right? Because they’re not doing what he thinks is right. And then it becomes hard to cooperate, right? And then the question is, well, like how much flexibility do you build it, right? Like how much do you adhere to the structure and how much space do you leave for things to go outside of it, right? Like, and there’s a bunch of people, right? Like if they do the cooking on Sunday and the cooking doesn’t happen on Sunday, the whole week is disturbed, right? Like there’s no, everything has to change like the whole planning and it’s panic. Right, right. But I like this concept, right? It’s really about becoming your own parent. It’s like, yeah, you had a parent and then you grew up and now you don’t have parents, right? Or you’re not supposed to, you’re supposed to be able to do more with less of them or something, right? And then you have to take over that role, right? And yeah, like hopefully you had at least one organized parent. And if you didn’t, yeah, that’s a problem. But you can learn to organize other ways, right? You can check out Marie Kondo and those types of people that have that whole ethos of less is more and things like that. How many things do I need, right? How many forks do I, how many spoons do I need? It was funny. Since you did some funny videos, different people have different videos on this stuff. And it is about when you take on the role that is more developed than a child’s role, right? You get an appreciation for the problems of organization and prioritization and structure and leadership and authority once you take those responsibilities for those things and you should, in fact you kind of have to, then you get an appreciation for how to cooperate with these other things and know, oh, this structure is too corrupt. I can’t deal with that. But this structure, well, they’ve got some corruption and there’s just corruption everywhere, but I can probably make that trade off. I can probably be okay with that. And people get caught up in this, oh, no, zero tolerance, right? Zero defects, zero problems. I can’t, a single bad act means I can’t be involved. And that’s sad because that’s not the world you’re gonna live in. It’s not purple talking unicorns that create rainbows and do sunshine on demand. That’s not the world we’re living in. So we have to have an acceptance for these conflicts. Also, that would be horrible. No, it wouldn’t be awesome. It would be mine. It would be great. You’d be living among the unicorns farting ice cream. I have 12 acres for a unicorn, man. It’s all prepared. Like I’ve planned for this. You’re already there. Like, I don’t know what you’re. Yeah, so actually I was thinking a little bit about these roles, right? And taking over this role of your parent. And there is something in taking over a role and living it out, connecting that to appreciation, allowing for certain type of intimacy, right? Because if you can’t appreciate the struggle of the CEO, like you’re gonna reduce what the CEO is dealing with to one dimension, right? Like, oh, like this is the thing that is important to me. This is what affects me. And therefore I’m gonna judge what that person is doing on that level. And the more you’re relating to the complexity, the more correct your judgment of that person can be. But it also allows you to be more at peace with what is happening and identify actual transgressions. Like the actual transgression, like, okay, this is really not okay. Like there’s no situation in which this should have been allowed to happen. And therefore I’m rightfully upset at this point. Right, right. Yeah, the interface with having to be organized and understanding the utility of organization is something that will develop you out of your childlike development stage and onto a stage where you can have some appreciation for an enjoyment of the complicated things around you, like running organizations and companies and governments. And then maybe you won’t be over-reducing everything and render yourself unable to predict what’s going on in the world and what might happen in the world and how to act based on what might happen. You know, and I mean, there’s some easy things you can do like Boy Scouts, right? Prepare for the worst hope for the best sort of thing. There’s tons of stoic practices that help with some of that. But you really don’t understand your own whys, your own goals until you’re organized. That’s the thing that really gets you in touch with all the complicated trade-offs you have to make in life in order to move forward and develop and become something better than you are today, which is really the goal. Like we just, we have to keep improving because we keep changing and the world keeps changing. So we can’t just stay the same. Can’t just sit in our basement, play video games and eat Cheetos as much as that sounds lovely because the world’s changing around us. And then there’s the question, like, why should I do that? Right, like you’re telling me there’s a place to go to. Why should I go to the place where you tell me to go to? Well, like there’s only one way to find out why, right? And that is by going to the place and looking at the world from the plates. And when you start realizing, okay, like there’s, this is why things are the way they are, right? And it’s like, then you can start having an appreciation. Again, right, the discernment about right and wrong comes in there as well. And if you’re not going to the place, if you’re not exploring and using the perspective, right? Because you can have a kitchen, right? You can have it organized, but you can’t just do that because your parents did it. Right? And then you’re not being your own parents, you’re being your parents. And there’s a distinction between copying what has, yeah, what was the right way to do things before you and making the decision to do them and having had, have gone through the process of evaluation. Like, okay, I’m taking this decision for this reason. Right, but sometimes also you don’t need to know why things are. You can just say, oh, things are and move forward. Like the why is really, why did we have the governments that we have? Look, you could do an exploration of that if you wanted to. And my buddy, Dr. Langer Jack, great huge channel, also runs Ancient Greece to Classified podcast. He pointed out once, Ancient Greece experiment with a thousand forms of government, a thousand. You can study all that and try and figure out why we have the kind of government we have today or this country or that country or whatever, if you want. But I don’t think that’s useful, right? Like, because even if you know why and how and you actually could understand that, and I doubt that anybody can, you’re not gonna change it. So just, you know, just accept what you see around you sometimes and move on. And you don’t have to deal with everything, but you do have to deal with some things. And that’s okay. It’s okay to accept the things around you and move forward. Well, are we accepting that we’re coming to the end? I think so. Maybe next time we’ll get people to join us. Yeah. We didn’t have Jacob’s channel, so we’re at a loss. He usually has a better draw than we do. So yeah, I think actually, acting out roles is a really good subject that we might wanna dive into next time. Yeah, why pay attention to roles and identity? Yeah, exploring why have identity, right? Exploring why identity matters. Yeah. Yeah. All right. On that note, let’s shut it down. It was great to have everybody. Okay, see you all. Thanks for watching.