https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=Sa5qsfm_jfA
Okay, Eric you there? Yes, sir. God we rambled on for a long time. So what do you got to say? Yeah, it was really good though I actually thought that that the end was a really good tie-in because it’s again like We’ve been dealing with this issue of like is it not sexy enough? Like how how do we handle the conversation about being honest about climate change and you know the consequences of the proposed solutions And I don’t I don’t know that it I don’t know that it’s not we’ve heard I mean maybe it’s just me but I’ve between Matt Ridley and Bjorn and Marion and now you Michael. I don’t know that it’s not Not sexy enough. I think that it’s just so ingrained. I just think it’s so ingrained in people’s minds You can’t even you can’t even challenge it It’s such a taboo topic that I don’t know that it’s I don’t know that it’s lacking the sense of adventure because while conservatively moving forward one decade at a time just eradicating poverty What could be more advent adventurous than that to the left there to the liberal minded? Yeah, well we’ll we’ll nibble away at will nibble away at ignorance before we presume the level and I think This optimistic stuff is pretty new, you know all things considered For you because you’re so much younger. It’s sort of being there the whole way But for me, I didn’t see anything of this sort of realist optimism until oh My god, certainly after 2000 that just didn’t exist at all when I was your age So it’s pretty new Part of it too. I think I just think you know Jordan your work has been so influential on me because you know that thing You said about If you don’t know what someone’s motivations are it’s good to look at the consequences of their behavior I’m sorry the consequence. Yeah, the consequences who said that was that you or did you quoting somebody? I Think I got that from Jung. I got it from some psychoanalytic thinker It might have been Jung it might have been Freud, you know, too, but I think it was Jung but it Heavy Freudian influence there. It’s like oh, yeah, it’s I think they called that the psychoanalytic scalpel something like that And it’s a devastating thing to to turn that on yourself It’s like I’m not so sure I didn’t want this because I sure caused it. It’s like There’s a superhero. I think a superhero Narrative at work at least for myself when I was apocalyptic that I had a bit of a messianic complex I think related to my parents divorce and we’re and also just sort of some, you know some amount of narcissism and My my kind of being praised in particular ways coddled actually And so I thought that my job was to save the fucking planet, which is just the most ridiculous thing It’s absolutely ridiculous On the one hand it’s a lot of work that oh my god It’s a messianic complex is terrible, you know, but in some ways it’s like that’s what poor Greta Thunberg is Infected with and I think a lot of kids are and you get it in the superhero movies Well, you know page identified a messianic stage as part of development But no one ever talks about that in universities even when they teach Piaget. It’s like late adolescence. That’s a messianic stage It’s like well, let’s think that’s embarrassing. You know, we don’t talk about that because it’s religious. It’s like that Piaget’s proposition How do you get out of it or how does it how do you evolve out of it? Jordan Well, you get more realistic I think you know because there’s a kernel there’s that’s the hero’s adventure to save the damn planet It’s like yeah, but you’re just you you know It’s like here you are in a time and place and so you have to make your redemptive acts concrete Right, you have to you have to incarnate that principle deeply in your own life at the level of detail That’s how you do it. That’s maturation. That’s that’s really what maturation is. It’s hard to mature past the messianic stage without being Wrought with the responsibility that comes with it and who in their right mind will will accept all of that responsibility It’s very very well, you know the way we solved it to some degree in 1960 was people just got married when they were 20 It’s like well that’ll grow you up So we’re being rewarded. I certainly was rewarded in my first part of my career for the messy the messianism Yeah, well you’re you said that’s an ethical obligation and it’s fair enough in some sense to get your act together and straighten things out You know, but don’t forget who you are and you know, there’s this essay. I would highly recommend this essay It’s it’s brilliant. It’s the only essay. No, I know on this topic. It’s called relations between the ego and the unconscious that’s Carl Jung and That’s the only thing I’ve ever seen that actually solves that addresses this issue. It’s like Well, of course that’s part of the hero’s journey is to be fired up with the messianic spirit Yeah, but you’re you know little and stupid and malevolent. So how do you balance those? Well humility is a good start Well, that’s that’s that essay and it’s deep that bloody essay it’s almost a version of the famous Churchill quote of if you’re not a socialist in your youth and your Yeah, you have no heart Yeah, and if you’re not a cuz you’re not a conservative in your old age and you have no brain Yeah, basically, yeah, it’s something like that and those things need to be balanced, you know Some of that is the particularization that you’ve done in this book, which I think is so wonderful. It’s like yeah Yeah, let’s break these things down into actual problems not you know low resolution moral claims and you know, the other thing that’s useful to think about cognitively is that No one has any unmapped space in the world Everything’s mapped. Okay, but they don’t know anything. So how did they make the maps? Well, they just paint big chunks red That’s all red. That’s all purple. It’s like no, it’s not it’s detailed right down to the subatomic level Yeah, but I’ve got that covered. Well, that’s only because you haven’t tested your stupid idea Now you did because you went to Africa and you went to South America So you had to become high-resolution because You saw the failure of the low resolution map But it’s really interesting and then people get real upset when you point to their low resolution image and you say well, that’s low resolution It’s based on one axiom Well, they’re terrified because underneath that is all that bloody complexity that they thought they’d already well, you know, yeah, I’m not hungry So obviously I know how to deal with Poverty on a world level because look at me. I’m not hungry It’s like fair enough, you’re not hungry. Why would you even think about it? But you know unmapped territory and ideology It’s like the whole it’s like the whole culture stuck at the messianic level. Yeah Well, that’s right. That’s it. That’s it. Well, we can afford to because we can be coddled, but it’s a catastrophe We fall into this terrible depression. We’ve been hungry We’ve been hungry, but we haven’t been hungry our whole lives, right? Like as a culture, we’re so well taken care of at this point, you know It’s it’s almost impossible to mature out of it without causing the destruction that would cause us to later mature This is really wonderful. Thank you so much you guys Yeah, thank you pleasure. Thank you. Eric. Nice to meet you. And yeah nice to know well Onward and upward, you know, we’ll get this launched lots people to watch it sell lots of books You know, we’ll get this launched lots people to watch it sell lots books. Yep, and we’ll see what happens but keep it up, man