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We should define parkour for everybody because not everybody listening will know. And why don’t you introduce that into it because that’s also the person against the world instead of the person competing against another person. Yeah, this is the perfect bridge. So I found parkour when I was 23 years old and I’d been doing gymnastics for some period of time before that. And it’s very interesting because I remember really clearly, I was very influenced by the Lord of the Rings and I remember really clearly as a young, 12 years old, realizing that there were no dragons to go out and slay physically. And so when I saw David Bell, the founder of parkour, jumping between buildings, I had this really deep sense that you can do something heroic in life, but the challenge isn’t necessarily a dragon out there. It’s the fears that are inside you that would prevent you from being able to do what you’re going to do. And so I started practicing parkour and it completely, I fell in love with it and it had this transformative effect on me. And so over the years I’ve been like, what is happening with parkour? What is going on? Sorry, just to define parkour for a moment. Parkour is a discipline of learning to overcome obstacles that came out of France in the late 90s. And so it’s associated with jumping between buildings, but it doesn’t have to be buildings, right? It’s just finding obstacles in the environment, running, jumping, climbing, moving all the force to try to surpass and overcome that obstacle. I can think of it as just playing with obstacles. And I think fundamentally what it is, is actually just exploratory locomotor play. You’ve talked about the example of, again, the rat model, right? If you drop a rat into a new environment, it’ll first freeze and then it will explore the environment, but then it will actually play with the way in which it moves through its environment. It will add variation to how it moves. And by doing so, it’s actually mapping all the potential pathways in that environment and increasing its behavioral flexibility. Mapping the affordances and the obstacles, you bet. Exactly, so that’s precisely what we’re doing with parkour. And I think it’s so interesting because we’re literally mapping meaning into the world. What you develop when you start doing parkour is something called parkour vision. So you’ve been walking through the world for years, and you see a wall, and a wall just means a place you can’t go in, right? But now all of a sudden, a wall means a place that you can run up, or a wall means a thing that you can flip off of, or do any number of different techniques. So that wall is now much richer for you. It literally is a source of reward to see a wall because the relationship between the walls actually code movement that you can use. And so that’s how it maps meaning into the world. And then there’s this sense that you’re acting out the heroic archetype every time that you go out to do parkour, right? It is embodying that meta-myth because you’ll be walking and you’ll see a jump that calls to you. And that jump is undifferentiated. You don’t yet know what you can do, and it has promise, right? Like if you do it, it’s really cool, it’s exciting. But if you fail, you might get hurt. And especially as you scale up your abilities, like the potential dangers can become very, very high. And so you get to play with and recognize what it’s like to experience fear at a really deep level. And then you get to go through the physical process of how does my body handle this fear? What do I need to prepare myself? And then how do I make the commitment and make the jump to the other side? Are you feeling overwhelmed by the craziness of the world around you? Do you find yourself constantly searching for peace and stability amidst the chaos? If so, then it might be time to start building a daily prayer routine. Join me and thousands of others on HALO, the number one Christian prayer app in the US. Download the app for free at halo.com slash Jordan. You can set prayer reminders and track your progress along the way. Not sure where to start? Check out Father Mike Schmitz’s Bible in a Year, available on the HALO app for brief daily Bible readings and reflections. Or pray alongside Mark Wahlberg, Jim Caviezel, and even some world-class athletes. With HALO, you can customize a personal prayer plan that works for you. Listen anywhere you are with downloadable offline sessions. Get an exclusive three-month free trial at halo.com slash Jordan. That’s halo.com slash Jordan. Right, well, it’s a great form of play symbolically because, you know, it’s, you’re going to, the landscape is one of pathways, affordances, and obstacles. That’s basically how the world lays it out, self out for us. And, you know, you can avoid an obstacle, but the highest art is to transform an obstacle into an affordance, right? This is no longer an obstacle. It’s something that I can use in my, to facilitate my pathway forward. No, and that’s the highest form of play. I mean, one of the things I’ve learned quite with some difficulty, let’s say, over the last five years is that the most adversarial obstacles in the form of, let’s call them pathologically narcissistic and destructive journalists are actually afford the most serious play because the more intense the attack, the more potential there is in making your ability to contend with it manifest. And that’s a very strange thing to learn, but it’s, you know, and it’s not a game without high stakes, but man, it’s something to think about is that the highest art of mastery, the highest form of mastery is to turn the worst obstacle into the most remarkable affordance. And then there’s something, there’s something deep about that, you know, that you may know this, you probably do that. We calibrate a lot of fine actions with opponent processing and almost all of our fine actions are the consequence of two systems in opposition modulating each other. So if you want to move your hand really smoothly, you can do it like this, but it’s still kind of jerky if you analyze it at the micro level, but if you do this, you can move your hand with incredible precision and that’s an opponent process. And a tremendous number of the physiological processes that we undertake are opponent processes. And you know, you have that opponent process dynamic within a marriage and you have it within a debate, you have it within play. It seems to be a universal principle, the principle of properly balanced opponent processing. And you could think about that at the highest level is the most fundamental obstacle might be the adversary that affords the most serious play. That’s a, well, that’s a revolutionary way to conceptualize the world. Yeah, that’s a, I love that. I want the most, the most challenging adversary that you can handle that affords you the capacity to play. That I think is really at the center of what provides that. You know, I love the term allostasis, right? So we think that we’re homeostasis, but we’re actually in a continual process development. And that continual process of development is always between these paired reciprocal opponent processing systems, right? So the parasympathetic nervous and the sympathetic nervous system. So as I was preparing for this discussion, I was listening to your last discussion with John Brevecky and talking to him a little bit. And I was thinking about how those connections that I talked about, the fundamental connections that a practice has to offer, it has to integrate the self better, right? It has to integrate the self with the physical world better. It has to integrate the self with the things we can manipulate better and with other social beings better. And then with this concept of the transcendent, all of those are also opponent processing. And that’s a full logos integration. Okay, so why are they all opponent processing? Because you can split the self, right? You’re a unity, but you’re also a multiplicity. And when you can look at yourself, and you’ve talked about this, if you wanna think deeply about something, you have to argue with yourself. You have to create two different dialogues in your head. So there’s this fundamentally dialogical process. And you can embody that by just creating tension in your body between different systems and feeling how these two things, now I’m playing that and how I can grow with it. And then you can think about, can my mind control my body better? Or can my body support my mind better? And all those things can be in dynamic composition. And obviously once we get to parkour, that body environment practice, the environment is the opponent. And I’m learning to have greater and greater mastery, greater and greater affordances available to me through that relationship. And then the same thing when I learn to throw and catch and swing objects, and then obviously do fine crafting things, which are kind of the developmental derivative of those basic play instincts to play with objects. And then obviously when I’m engaged in rough and tumble play, it’s opponent processing. And so I think fundamentally, we need an embodied set of physical practices that allow us to attune our relevance realization across these fundamental relationships in order to act out the metameth that you described in Maps of Meaning.