https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=vnG3uda6vyI
I mean, you can see that in the fairytales, you can see that all of these moments, they have to do with change. They have to do with something happens, there’s a change, and then I have to find the meaning of that change. I have to find the solution, right? I have to find a way out so that the change now finds a resolution and makes sense. And you can… Yeah, well, so Piaget talked about that too, in terms of the stage transition and his hypothesis, and this has been also, what would you say, taken up in a parallel way by philosophers of science, is that you have a mode of interpreting the world, which enables you to progress in the world until its insufficiency is demonstrated. And that can happen as a consequence of biological maturations, right? The framework that you used as a child is no longer relevant because the physiological acts that you’re capable of now have radically transformed that would happen at puberty. So that viewpoint has to be radically transformed to take into account the new reality, but the new transformation has to do everything the old transformation, the old viewpoint did plus something additional. So there’s actually… It’s not merely the reestablishment of a new kind of stasis. It’s a more inclusive interpretive framework. This is why there’s actual progress, let’s say, in science, but maybe also progress on the moral front is that it isn’t merely that you’re looking at things in a different way. You’re looking at things in a way that now takes more into account and still enables you to exert a certain amount of prediction and control. Yeah, definitely. So there’s movement upward. You think about that as a spiraling upward too, right? It’s a cycle of change, but one which hopefully brings you higher up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and the pinnacle of that cycle of change, I think, is the biblical injunction that you have to become like a little child in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. It’s the reintegration of the spontaneous attitude that you had to the world as a child, but with all of the acumen and wisdom and alertness and consciousness that you’ve developed as an adult. That’s sort of the pinnacle of that. Yeah, because it joins it all together. That’s what you mean by that it includes it all. Well, it’s also, imagine that, so you talked about the fundamental narrative is there’s a steady state and then there’s a problem introduced and there’s a collapse into something like chaos and then there’s a reintegration of the viewpoint. Yeah, sometimes some stories don’t reintegrate. No, then that’s a tragedy. So the comedy is the reintegration. Tragedy is just the disintegration. But then you could also say, steady state collapse, reintegration, but then there’s another story which is that’s the process to follow. And then the ultimate reintegrated state is becoming an expert at that process. So it’s respect for the process itself starts to become the cardinal target of the entire process of transformation. And that’s associated with the reattainment of that openness that you possess when you’re a child. And I think that that’s probably one of the functions that stories play. That is that the stories have that structure. So we tell them, we hear them, we retell them. And so we’re kind of modeling these patterns, right? It’s like almost like little puzzles. We’re like modeling these little puzzles. But what we’re actually doing is mastering the meta puzzle. Yeah, you’re mastering the art of, well, you’re mastering the art of transformation to some degree, because one of the things that you do when you attend to a story is you embody the character. And so if you listen to 10 stories, you embody 10 different characters. And so then what you’re embodying is the process of embodying multiple characters, right? And so that, and you want to become an expert at that because, well, because each situation that you enter into, to some degree, demands the manifestation of a different character, right? So one of the things you see in very restricted forms of psychopathology is the person is exactly the same in every situation. You might think, well, that’s admirable stability of characters. It’s like, no, it’s not. There’s no flexibility of response. So you’re the same person at a party that you would be at a funeral. Well, that’s not good, right? I mean, there are some principles underlying your behavior that should remain stable, but out of those principles should come this vast flexibility of response so that you can go into a working class community and have a discussion there that’s productive. And then you can go to a highly cultured event and you can part yourself property there. Yeah. And I think that that’s, it seems to me that at least that’s what’s going on in these types of stories. Like Sleeping Beauty, you mentioned her before. If you look at the structure, you’ll notice that it’s very similar, isn’t it, to Snow White? Yeah. But it’s similar even in some of the elements. So when I talked about Snow White, I mentioned the idea that she doesn’t understand the reason for the housework, right? The reason for the housework is actually in her relationship with her mate. That’s what gives meaning to the cycle of work. And so if you think about Sleeping Beauty that way, you’ll notice that it’s very similar what’s going on there, is that she’s pricked on this spindle, right? She’s pricked on this wheel that’s turning, but it’s also a wheel that is, it’s a complicated symbolism because it’s both the wheel, but it’s also the binding of the thread together. It’s weaving. It’s part of weaving, yeah. And so she, it’s as if someone, the witch curses Sleeping Beauty that she’s going to die when she hits puberty. She says 15 or whatever. It’s always pretty much- It’s first blood, right? Because she’s going to prick her finger and bleed. You can understand that both as, exactly, you can understand it both as losing virginity or as the beginning of menstruation. It doesn’t matter how you- It’s the death of childhood. It’s just the change which comes with the bleeding. And so, but it’s as if they’ve hidden that from her, her whole life. And so when it happens, she has no way to deal with it. She has no, she has no frame. She has no reason. She doesn’t understand what’s going on. And so that’s how she does. Yeah, I saw that happen in some of my clinical clients. I’m sure.