Live Navigation How to spot emergence (Zxq7l3gQNtY)

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Well, all right, here we are. Starting up another Friday stream. Let’s see if anybody ends up showing up. Now today we’re going to be chatting about emergence. And I think it’s an important sort of topic. I know it’s been an interesting day. So yeah, when we’re talking about emergence, there’s a couple of different ways to think about this. So that’s what I’m going to be struggling with here in the beginning of the stream is, how do we frame this idea of emergence? What do we do about emergence as such? And why is this important? So we just start with a definition of what I mean by emergence and what I’m talking about. And yeah, and proceed from there. So basically, emergence is the thing that’s coming up from below. And when you have a situation where you have stuff sort of bubbling up from underneath, and that’s all you’re looking at. So you’re looking either down, eyes down, or you’re looking across and down. Then the problem that you’re going to have is there’s no explanatory power in what’s coming up from below. And the reason why that’s a problem is because we don’t have a framework necessarily for engaging with the emergence correctly. So we’ve got this emergence. Something’s bubbling up from underneath. Fair enough. Things bubble up from underneath. That certainly happens, or it seems to happen. But if it’s not proper, if it doesn’t have right relationship to things around it, to the things above it, to you, then it can just be a problem. It can become something damaging rather than something generative. And so the fact that there’s emergence, that there’s things changing, because emergence is really just a function of change at some point, doesn’t say anything about the nature of it. It doesn’t say if it’s good. It doesn’t say if it lasts. It doesn’t say how long it will last. It doesn’t say whether or not it will organize, because one of the problems we have, especially with emergence, is that we see patterns. That’s what we do as humans. This is all over the literature. We actually see patterns very easily. So we’re constantly looking for patterns as people. And we see chaotic emergence, inevitable chaotic change. And we cast that into a pattern. We go, oh, that looks like this, or that is going to be this, or that manifests as this. And we often do this before it happens. And that’s a big problem. That’s a big, big problem. So that’s where the trouble is. The trouble is in emergence doesn’t have a valence. It’s not good or bad. Emergence doesn’t have a way of relating. Emergence just doesn’t have a bunch of these qualities. And so it becomes a problem, even though it’s not necessarily a problem. But it becomes a problem when we assign things to it, like, oh, emergence is good, or oh, emergence means this structure is going to happen, or oh, because we have emergence, we don’t need a structure. This is what the anarchists think. Like, oh, emergence is going to happen, and so we’re fine. And it’s like, no, emergence can be used. And if it’s not being managed and used by you, it will get managed and used by somebody else, or it will do something completely chaotic and random. And the difference between, we’ll say, the attitude of being is good and emergence is good is something alike. The thing that is good is us being and animals. And the thing, and that matters because there are agents in the world. People and animals are agents in the world. If your emergence is good, then you’re just looking at random chaotic things and seeing patterns and going, oh, well, it’s good, but they’re not good. Like, there are bad patterns. Drug addiction is a pattern. It’s not a good pattern. Drug addiction emerges. That happens, but it’s not good. And that’s where all the trouble comes in, is that if you’re not paying attention to the good, instead you’re just going, oh, something emerged. Then you can get lost in that. And you can sort of cast, like, well, what’s that going to look like going forward? And it’s like, well, I mean, it’s a question. It’s a question you can ask. It’s a reasonable question to ask. I don’t know what that’s going to look like going forward, but neither do you. You’re assuming a bunch of things about structure, about control, about what force it has, what influence it has. And that’s what happens, is that you don’t know, but you think you do know. And then what emerges is what emerges. And it’s like, oh, well, but, you know, and how long will it last? And what was very helpful for me today was I saw Paul Banducle’s livestream, and they were talking about the Asbury Revival, which is something I know very little about, but Anselman had given me an excellent framing for this Asbury Revival thing. He said, oh, it’s an incident of the Holy Spirit moving people. It’s like, oh, OK. Well, now that totally makes sense to me. And like, I get what they mean by revival, right? You’re being moved by a spirit. Totally get it. Moved by spirit. Completely understand that. And then there, you know, is this good? Is this bad? It’s emergence. It could be good. It could be bad. But the difference is emergence from somebody with no emanation, you have no way at all of navigating goodness and badness. You’re not able to navigate that pattern because you can’t orient. And navigation is all about orientation, right? Like, orientation is wrapped up in navigation. You need to be able to orient in order to be able to properly navigate. It’s just that’s what it is. So if you’re focused on that which is below, or you’re focused across and seeing things come up, you’re not able to orient because goodness is above you. So you need to be eyes up. You need to be looking at the good and then comparing that with what’s emerging and seeing if there’s a match. Orienting yourself in relation to those two things because even if the thing that’s emerging is good and oriented towards the good, you still have to orient yourself in relation to the emergence and the emanation of the good. It’s not optional to say, I’m just going to pay attention to the stuff below because that doesn’t tell you enough about where you need to be. You have to relate to the emanation as well as the emergence. You can’t just relate to the emanation because now you’re a floofy, hippy person, right? And that’s another issue is that you’ve got to be able to do both. And the thing that people are struggling with in modern times is going, aha, we can just emerge things. Well, yeah, things will emerge. You’re not emerging them, though. You may be contributing to the emergence, but you’re not emerging them, which means you don’t actually have control. Or at least you don’t have control as much control as you think. Or at least maybe you have the ability to emerge and a lot of control for a little while. And then it’s out of your control. This is like mob mentality and stuff. Oh, I can get a mob together. Yeah, but how long can you control a mob? Or really, I can get a group together. Yeah, how long do you control that group before it devolves into a mob? I’m not proposing an answer. I’m just saying people don’t think about these things. And this comes out, if you listen to Tim Poole talk about Occupy Wall Street movement, some of the things that happened I just found fascinating. I mean, none of them were particularly surprises to me, but I just found fascinating that he’s just like, yeah, there’s a group of people, and then all of a sudden they’re not following the leaders anymore. They’re following a random cameraman down the street. Why? Because the mob is stupid and doesn’t know the difference between a leader and a random cameraman. What does that mean? It means the mob emerges from the group. The group and the mob emergence are the same emergence. And when it switches and how it switches matters. And that’s really important. So that’s where we’re sort of like in trouble, is that we’re not recognizing that this interface with emergence is important to pay attention to, that orientation is part of the issue. Like you need to have proper orientation in the world. And the problem with systems like anarchy is they’re like, well, look, structures have issues. And when structures are corrupt, that corruption is widespread. Well, yeah, of course. But the solution isn’t no structure. The solution is you have to deal with that and find ways of correcting the structure. The solution isn’t check out, which is what anarchy is. Anarchy is, no, everybody does their own thing and everything will be fine. Whatever emerges from individuals just running around doing random things will be good. No, it won’t. And that’s one of the problems is that people don’t understand, they don’t have the proper orientation to emergence. So they think, oh, well, I can emerge stuff by myself on my own, and therefore everybody else can, and that will be good. It’s like, oh, I don’t know about that. Or actually, I do know about that. The odds of that happening are small. Because there’s more evil than there is good in the world. And that’s one of the many things, we’ll say, that we’re not accounting for. So we need to account for, well, what is this emergence anyway? And when does this emergence matter? And when does this emergence not matter? And what does it mean when emergence happens? And how do we understand emergence in a way that’s generative and not degenerative? And I think one of the problems is the way, say, somebody with a religious framework sees emergence is very different from the way somebody who’s in a meaning crisis or doesn’t have a religious framework, or at least is denying a religious framework, sees emergence. So the crazy climate religion, the climate people who worship pure earth or something, pure nature worship, they’re basically crazy, what would you call them, polytheistic pagans. They just believe that whatever emerges out of the earth is gonna be great. And they’re not paying attention to, well, is this really good? Or are you being hijacked by something that’s not good? Because there’s a lot more emergent evil than there is emerging good. And that’s the problem. And when you don’t have a way to orient towards something above yourself, then you’re not able to cooperate with other people. Because if all you have is emergence at the bottom, there’s no cohesion in emergence, by definition. It’s just randomness. And yeah, I wanna address this. So the idea was a reboot and build based on the interests of common people. Common people don’t understand their interests beyond the immediate material though, orientation guides emergence. Well, I think emergence helps with orientation. But yeah, the problem is the trick they’re playing, especially anarchists, but really anybody, when they talk about things like, that my favorite with the hippies was enlightened self-interest, that was their charm. And I was like, well, first of all, enlightenment applies something coming down from above. And why don’t you talk about that? But second of all, the idea of enlightened self-interest has to be something people have in common. Because it my enlightened self-interest and your enlightened self-interest might not match. And we might seem to, because it’s hard to get at these things with words at some point, right? Propositions are problematic at some point, right? The propositions are just causing problems and not solving them at a certain point. When you don’t take into account commonality, and how are you gonna get commonality? If you and I are roughly equal, and we roughly are in some ways, I mean, equality is bad, but we are roughly equal in some ways, like humans, whatever. We don’t have all that much in common because we’re spread out along whatever plane that is, right? It could be the globe, it could be the city, right? It doesn’t matter. We’re not occupying the same space in the same time. So we see a very different world. I mean, Einstein’s relativity theory talks about this. We see a very different world. And there’s nothing wrong with that. That’s actually an advantage because I can learn from your perspective, you can learn from my perspective. And now we have a better view of the thing we’re standing within, right? Or the water we’re swimming in, the aquarium we’re swimming in, right? When you don’t have something higher to point to that we can have in common, oh, we’re all moving towards this point of goodness, then you’re just gonna get more chaos. You’re just gonna get more problems. You’re just gonna get more division. You’re just gonna get more divisiveness. You’re gonna get trapped because we can’t live on our own. We can say we can be individuals, but we can’t be individuals. That’s absurd. Almost nobody has almost ever been an individual ever for any length of time. And most people, this is what they’re complaining about, right? They go, oh, I can’t find somebody. I can’t find friends. I can’t find a spouse. I can’t find somebody to date. Okay, maybe that’s because you’re trying to be an individual. And if you’re trying to separate yourself by being an individual, yeah, you can’t relate to other people. That’s your fault. Like you need to find a way to relate to other people. I don’t know what to tell you. There’s no other way around that. And we’re just like, oh, emergence is good. Someone will come along and they’ll just be my perfect person. Your perfect person? Sounds boring, first of all. I like Peterson’s framing better, right? Like you want somebody you can struggle with. You want somebody to relate to in the struggle. And you also don’t want the same person every day. Like a perfect person presumably isn’t gonna change or is gonna change with you. But then how do you know that they’re perfect? The whole set up’s absurd. Like there’s no such thing as a perfect person. And if there were, you wouldn’t wanna date them. Like it would be boring real quick. What you need is somebody who you’re intimately connected to in a way that allows you to get closer to them in a larger container or frame, which is called a relationship. And type of relationship might be a marriage, but you need that emanation coming down from above that you’re both submitted to. And the problem with anarchy is that the common good isn’t common by default. That’s just a trick to tell you, yeah, there’s such a thing as the common good, but can we agree on it enough to cooperate? Because that’s what matters. There could be a common good. And if we can’t submit to the common good, even if we agree on it, we’re not gonna cooperate, which is not gonna happen. It’s not an option. So at that point, it’s like, well, that’s not good. Because now we’re back to tribalism. That’s why you can’t rely on emergence. Emergence is not gonna get you anywhere. And it can get you a long way, and it can last a lot longer than you think. But it’s not a solution. Emergence is just chaos. And you’re casting order on it, because we see patterns. That’s what we see. We make patterns. We make order out of chaos. And we do that visually. We do it in our imagination. And when we fail to take that one step further and do it in the real world, in the material realm as well, when we’re not knitting heaven and earth together, roughly speaking, or the ethereal and the material together, that’s when things get worse and not better. And that’s part of the problem. We need to have higher aims and higher goals and things up above us that we can submit to so that we can cooperate, so that we can get a quality connection or an intimacy. Intimacy is just quality of connection. We need a deeper intimacy. And you’re not going to get that if you’re just looking at emergence. If you’re only looking at what’s below you or what’s horizontally out from you and below you, you can’t orient correctly in the world. It’s not to say you can’t live in the world. It’s not to say you can’t do good things. Good things are going to happen for sure because randomness, right? Emergence is not, it’s not definitely bad, right? It’s just not necessarily good and it won’t necessarily stay good even if it starts good. Like you have to take responsibility for that to some extent. And that’s part of what this is about. With emanation, you can take responsibility because you can orient in the world. You can orient yourself to the emergence. You can orient yourself to the emanation. You can orient in relation to those two things at once. And then you can participate in both, more emergence and more emanation so that things get better instead of worse. Because if you’re just relating to constant chaos, constant random change, things are going to get worse on average over time. They’re not going to get better. And if you’re not focused on the right highest value, and I have a video on highest value, about Sam Harris, then that’s going to corrupt you. If your highest value is being smart and you think you’re smart, and let’s say you are smart, let’s say you’re the smartest person in the world, but you’re not Elon Musk. In other words, you’re the smartest person in the world. The highest value that you hold is knowledge and you’re not the wealthiest person. Well, now all of a sudden you’re angry and resentful and like fair enough, maybe you should be. Or better yet, maybe you should realize knowledge isn’t the most valuable thing, just not. And so that relationship to emergence, having an emanation and being aware of it. Like I don’t think Sam Harris realizes his highest value is knowledge. I don’t think so. I don’t think Constantine Kitson realizes his highest value is politics. I don’t think so. I think if you ask them, they’d give you a different answer, but that’s not how they act. And that’s all I care about. That’s all I care about is how you act. Like what do you believe, as Peterson says, you believe what you act out. That’s what represents your belief, not what you say. You can say whatever you want. That’s fine. It’s easy to say things. Talk as cheap as they say. Ha ha. But you have to have that orientation to submit to, to that higher emanation. And then you have to take responsibility for the emergence at the same time. You can’t just look at the emergence and go, oh, whatever emerges is good because God’s gonna take care of it. Or because Christianity, we all live in a Christian frame. I don’t think so. I think we’re called to cultivate. I think we have to cultivate. Otherwise we’ll get caught up in it. These emergencies are not necessarily smaller than us just because they’re beneath us. Mobs are real. Mob mentality is real. Is it good? Look at something like Occupy Wall Street, which is a real turning point. Like it’s an unbelievable turning point in culture and history. And listening to guys like Tim Poole talk about it, it’s like, whoa, wow, there was a lot going on there. And I don’t think anybody or very many people really understand all that was going on and all the changes that it caused. But at the end of the day, those people did not, did not manifest anything good. At one point they were interviewed. The leaders were interviewed. And the bankers were like, what do you want? We’ll give it to you. We’re bankers. We’ll hand it to you. Whatever you want. You can have it. We’re the bankers. In your own frame, in your own mindset, we control the world. We’ll give you whatever you ask for. They didn’t have anything to ask for. They were confused by the question. They were out there occupying Wall Street without a tell us. That’s why there were all these problems. It’s not the only reason. I mean, there were gonna be problems, but that’s why at one point they’re marching down the street and they start following a photographer and ignoring the leaders. They didn’t have a tell us. It’s that simple. They didn’t have one. And that created a whole bunch of problems. And like, fair enough, but also bad. They didn’t manifest anything good. The only reason why I was pissed off, and I was pissed off about Occupy Wall Street, is because I was in the middle of and watching all these houses getting foreclosed on, saying, well, there’s the thing to ask for. There’s the thing to protest. Go to these foreclosure auctions and force them to close down. And then no one can take any houses. That would have been a good thing to manifest. And I wasn’t the only one that noticed that or said it. People said that. They were like, you guys ought to be over there at these foreclosure auctions. You guys ought to be over there where the banks are trying to take houses and stopping them, just with your presence. They could have done, and a few of them did, to be fair. A few of them did. But like, that would have been handy. They didn’t do that. And then ultimately, what was their answer to the bankers? We want jobs. Oh, okay, so they gave them jobs at banks. Probably overpaid them tremendously. What good was that? That didn’t help me. I still lost my house. Was it 2016, something? They still ended up taking my house. That was all 2008, by the way. They just frittered out the foreclosures over time. And Occupy Wall Street could have stopped that. They didn’t. They could have reformed the entire mortgage system. They didn’t. They could have brought attention to the bankers and said, you guys are like running a scam. What the hell? Because they’re running a fraud ring. It’s just a ring of basic fraud. Everybody wants these complicated mathematical tranches. I’m not saying there weren’t tranches. Less than 1% of the mortgages were in tranches, by the way, guys. Less than 1%. That wasn’t the problem. The problem is basic fraud. We’re telling you we own something that we don’t own, that we have no interest in. And therefore, other people also think they own it because nobody could tell who owned what. That’s what happens when you separate the mortgage and the note and you have loan servicers and they’re the ones listed in the public registry. There’s no public registry of who owns what property. These guys could have brought attention to all that back then. And had they done that, I’d still have my house. So I got reasons to be pissed off about Occupy Wall Street. And do I go off about it? No, not really. I think this is the first time I’ve actually got off about it publicly anyway. But they could have done some real good in the world. They squandered it all. There’s your emergence. So to me, I say take your emergence and shove it with the sun, don’t shove it. I don’t want any part of it. I want organized, structured, movement towards the good. It doesn’t have to be the ultimate good, but like really? We could reform the courts tomorrow if we had organized structure towards reforming courts. We could vote in good judges in places where you can vote judges. We could vote in people who promise to get rid of bad judges. We could do that. That’s the thing we could do. That means a lot to me. I’m still stuck in evil courts that don’t care about justice or know what justice is. We don’t have even definitions for the virtues anymore because we’re missing all the emanation. All the emanation is gone. All this interest in philosophy is wonderful, but you’re not dealing with emanation. You’re trying to use philosophy to fix emergence. They’re not gonna work. They’re not gonna work. Those are non-functional. I’m not saying it’s bad and you shouldn’t do it. I’m a fan of Plato anyway. The rest of it’s garbage, but everything after him’s junk. But yeah, Plato’s all you need, man, Plato and Aristotle. But look, I mean, at a certain point, this emergence only stuff is a problem. And even when the Christians do it, because they’re not taking responsibility necessarily for knitting together heaven and earth. They’re not necessarily going, oh, you know what I’m gonna do? I’m gonna carefully cultivate the soil and then I’m gonna plant these seeds and then I’m gonna cultivate these seeds into plants. And then when they’re plants, I’m gonna continue to water them. I’m gonna continue to care for them. I’m gonna continue to weed this garden. They’re not doing that. I mean, some of them are fair enough, but they’re not all doing that. They’re going, oh, you know what, emergence is good. Really? I don’t think so. I think goodness can emerge. That’s a very different statement. And people are confused about things like that. In fact, I’m gonna do a video on that at some point. I was gonna do videos today, but I’ve had a week of tired in the afternoon. So yeah, not a lot has gotten done. Nothing on videos lately. Unfortunately, hopefully I’ll get back into the swing. Maybe I’ll do videos tomorrow. We’ll see. I gotta actually do physical work tomorrow. So that’ll be fun. What emerges is what emerges. Our projection on what emerges is a projection. And it’s a set of predictions. And it might be right, but they’re not gonna be right over time. We need to participate in that emergence. We need to participate in the emanation. We need to orient ourselves in relation to the emergence and emanation and know what to do. Should I drive to Asbury? It’s not that far. Should I participate in this movement from the Holy Spirit? I don’t know. A lot of people did. Should they have curated who got to engage and who didn’t? I think so. I think that’s the only responsible thing to do. Is your curation gonna be perfect? I don’t know any perfect people, guy. But if you know some, hey, let me know. Introduce me to them. It’s easy to sit back and armchair a quarterback and be skeptical and cynical. And raise the spirit of Socrates in yourself and go, wah, that’s easy. But is it good? Was Socrates good? Socrates did some good things. I’m a big fan of skepticism and cynicism myself, but it has to be properly submitted to in the proper form. Someone’s doing good, like Jordan Peterson in the world. Are you right to be skeptical of it? Are you right to critique it? I’m very careful about that. I don’t think you are. Like there’s a bunch of critiques I have of Peterson where I’m like, technically I think he’s wrong. But I don’t think his message is wrong. Like maybe his message is the right message, even though it’s wrong. Even though I think it’s wrong, it might be the right message. It’s the same with John Vervecky. I talk about this all the time. Probably John Vervecky’s best work is to say, probably John Vervecky’s best work is participatory knowing. Why? Why would that be his best work? Because it’s a message to people whose highest value happens to be knowledge. Not gonna challenge your highest value, dude. Your highest value is knowledge. Knowledge is important. I agree, it’s the highest thing. Let’s all agree on that. But did you think there’s a type of knowledge that isn’t just reading in books and talking to people? Oh, maybe there’s more to this knowledge. Now you’ve opened the person up without challenging their worldview. Will their worldview crack open? I think it’s inevitable. That’s why I’ve used this tactic many, many times with a bunch of people. I think it’s inevitable that once you acquiesce to the idea that there’s a different type of knowledge and you think knowledge is the highest value, I think it’s inevitable that it’ll open up and it’ll expand your horizons. You’ll be open to new information, new knowledge, new stuff. And I think that’s good. That’s why I don’t say, although I could, John, what you’re describing is not knowledge, it’s information. In the model that Manuel and I use and a bunch of other people on the awakening server, which is now dead by the way, so don’t go there. On the model that we use, on the model that we use, and I of course have a video on that model, the bottom line is it’s types of information, four of them, four Ps of information and two types of knowledge. And I think that’s actually really important because it explains a bunch of things like autism and psychosis and a bunch of stuff. And it explains it in a powerful way. In fact, it explains John’s own work better than John’s model does, which we discovered very early on. But do I like run around and go, oh, roadside participatory knowledge? No, I use it all the time. I use it because I think it’s the right framing actually for certain people. And that’s what’s important. And yeah, look, it seems like what you’re pointing to with all this is the necessary condition of humility. Well said. Yeah, there is a necessary condition of humility and how do we engender that? And I would say, Breveke does it one way and maybe not enough of it, right? That might be a valid critique. Peterson does it a completely different way. And I have a video about Peterson and his trick. I think it’s really good actually, once you start to understand some of the pieces that Peterson’s, some of the pieces and some of the patterns that Peterson’s using, some of the tricks he’s using to get people to open up, to get them to humble themselves. I think it’s really powerful. And I think that’s what’s missing. Like if you just assume Christianity, I had a conversation with my crazy aunt the other day and she was like, oh, no, no, anybody can read the Bible. I’m like, no, they can’t. No, they can’t. And if they pick it up and they read the words, they can’t necessarily understand it. Now, I think that’s because they are spiritually three years old, technically. They have the spiritual maturity of a three-year-old. How did they get there? Okay, they’re three years old. How did they get there? Okay, maybe, maybe they didn’t. They were like spiritually 10 years old or spiritually 20 years old and they immature because that happens. If you don’t use the skill, you lose it. If you stuck in materialism all day, you lose the ability to embrace symbolism. We used to see this all the time. Or maybe they never developed past three. That could happen too. I don’t know. I don’t care. I don’t think it’s relevant. Don’t care how you got there. You’re there and I can identify it. Or at least I think I can. We’ve had a lot of luck identifying people where they’re stuck and why and how and getting them out of it. So that’s hopeful. When you’re stuck with that though, what happens is you will describe things. Like one of the things that got very commonly described will say with the Reveke crowd, I don’t imagine things in my head. When I close my eyes, I don’t have an imagination. I don’t have access to my imagination. It’s like what? Wow. Another thing they describe, I don’t like poetry. And many of them, I used to like poetry. I was like, well, that’s interesting. You no longer like poetry, but there was a time when you were okay with poetry. What’s up with that? That’s fascinating to me. How did that happen? It’s just utterly like, wow, that’s mindful. And then what we’ve done is gotten them into poetry. John’s work does that rather well, actually get people into poetry. So yeah, when you’re relying on emergence without a framework to account for emanation, when you’re not taking responsibility for being between, you are the creature that is between emanation and emergence, when you just like leave it up to God or say, ah, all emergence is good and so we don’t need God or whatever other formulation, then you get all this splintering. You get all this spreading out along the bottom surface of the triangle. It’s no good. It’s no good. You can’t rely on emergence for goodness. You can’t rely on emergence to stay good when it is good. You can’t rely on emergence for these things. It’s just not gonna work. And that’s the issue for me. So yeah, that’s my rant. That’s my opening rant. I’ve got my tea here. I’ve got my La Croix and my Sam Pell. And let’s open this up and see who wants to jump in and we don’t have to talk about emergence anymore. But y’all are welcome to jump into the stream and we can chat it up. I’ll pin this link on the one channel that I can do that on, which is navigating patterns. Can’t pin links on Jacob’s channel, unfortunately. So yeah, I hope y’all like that. Thank you, Ethan. Yeah, I think it’s important to think about these things, especially emergence. I mean, we’re talking a lot about it. People are relying a lot on it. And I really do appreciate Paul’s live stream today. I mean, he really put revival in a better context for why he thinks Peterson is like a revival. I can understand why Christians think Peterson’s a revival, but he’s not. There’s important differences, mainly the Holy Spirit, which Anselman, thank you. Like that’s such good framing. These other idiots are sitting there like, Ma, we’re talking about Asbury. And I’m like, what the hell? How would you describe revival? And they can’t come up with a definition. And Anselman comes up with a perfect definition. I’m like, oh, that makes perfect sense. Thank you, I’ll solve. So yeah, it’s good stuff. And it’s hard when the Christians don’t realize you guys are just using jargon. It’s like, you’re just using jargon. Stop using jargon. It’s Christian jargon. And yeah, dominion. But dominion doesn’t mean the cultural cognitive grammar is there. And that is the issue. Like there’s no cultural cognitive grammar anymore. I think for Ricky’s right about that. When he talks about cultural cognitive grammar in the Meaning Crisis series, he’s right. I mean, that’s why I have the channel navigating patterns is to fix cultural cognitive grammar. I think that is the number one issue that we face is cultural cognitive grammar. We’re not using words the same anymore. We’re not using definitions the same anymore. We’re not able to engage with each other propositionally in a way that allows us to cooperate anymore. Why? Because we’re using different language. We’re actually using different language. And it’s important that we’re, you know, that we not get caught up in that. Emergence doesn’t allow us a way to continue to cooperate towards the same aim. It allows us to cooperate maybe. Oh, you see that emergence? I see that emergence. That’s great. Let’s cooperate. And then things fly apart. And, you know, infighting and that’s why the Christians are infighting. So the BLM, you know, already blew up, but the TLC community, which is having more fights, more fights, more fights between Grim and I, fights between Jacob and Nate, and I have my issues with Nate Heil, so whatever. And yeah, if I had to pick one, I’d pick Jacob every time. These are inevitable when you’re just paying attention to emergence and you’re not paying attention to emanation. What’s the spirit? What’s the, what’s the telos? What’s the important part of what we’re trying to do? It’s not what emerges from below. There’s lots of potentially good emergencies, but they’re not gonna last. They need to be contained. They need to be led. They need to be embodied properly with right relationship. Right relationship to what? The emanation, right? Right orientation. Like these things are important. Lost cause. Confucius said if he was in charge of the government with full power, he would rename everything to the proper name. Yes, well, I think that’s part of the issue, right? Is that, and that’s the goal of emergence is naming. It’s, you know, oh, I’m just gonna name it. And then it’ll be fine. It’s like, well, it’ll help. And we heard that. So there was a stream earlier. I didn’t watch the whole thing because I was asleep. And then when I woke up, it was cause Vanu Klay, roughly speaking. So I jumped onto the Vanu Klay stream. So I missed a bunch of this other stream that Jacob was doing. And Andrew was on there talking about his struggles. And it was very powerful, very, very powerful stuff. Very powerful. You know, you wanna see revival-like activity on the internet. It got pretty close. People were getting pretty caught up. And they, well, they should have. But he was referencing what the meaning crisis did for him in terms of the meaning crisis series, what John Brevecky did for him in terms of getting him out of meaning crisis. And I thought that was really powerful and really good to hear, right? But I’m not sure that people are taking that seriously enough, like his statements, what his experience really was. And counting on emergence and not getting together around right relationship to the good. Because look, I don’t care if someone’s in a crisis of faith or a meaning crisis. I make a distinction. Some other people see that distinction, like Matteo in particular, which I’m grateful for. But the real issue there is if that’s correct, it doesn’t matter that you need different tools. But it does matter that you’re both there for the same reason, which is to draw people out of their nihilism, out of their meaning crisis, out of their crisis of faith, and up to virtues and values. That matters. And when people seem to have that goal, it’s easy to ignore that not everybody has that goal. And that emergencies can be hijacked. And that bad things can be done as the result. And that’s the interesting part for me. That’s the important part. Names help, but they only go so far. They allow an emergence to be talked about, and that’s good. They also allow emanations to be talked about, and that’s good. But they’re not sufficient. It is a step in the right direction though. And having proper naming matters. I mean, I go over this all the time. That’s what my channel navigating patterns is about. Cultural cognitive grammar. What’s the right way to understand power? What’s the right way to understand principality? Right, and am I saying that I have like the best way? No, but I have a better way than the way people are using things. That’s my thesis. And look, you could disagree. In which case, leave a comment. If you see one of my videos and you disagree, leave a comment, that’s fine. And that’s the important part to me is that if people come onto my channel, or they watch my live stream, or they come into my live stream, or whatever, and they’re engaging with trying to make things good or better, or whatever, then everything’s fine. But if they’re engaged in this solipsistic tear it down, or they’re like hermeneutics of suspicion, or whatever, then there’s an imbalance. And then we have to take an action. Maybe we have to throw somebody off a stream, which we’ve done, right? But that’s still good. The immediate action may not be good in your mind, but it’s still good. So I shall address this. Mills, let’s see, love the eyepiece by the way, signifying a vigilance. Vigilante hermeneutic approach. I hope not. It’s more fun than symbolic. So the symbolism is pirate captain navigating the patterns, right? And it’s live. And so yeah. And so it’s more poking fun at my channel, hopefully. What do we got? Lost cause. People think history is emergent. That’s a good point. I like that. Yeah. People look at history as emergence. And it’s really, I think I know why, by the way, this is something I mean to do a video about. In fact, I’m gonna put it on the list right now before I forget, because the tendency to forget, especially on long live streams. And this may be a long live stream, although boy, I don’t have a lot of energy today. Yeah, I think history as emergence is an issue, right? But the reason why it’s that way is because we have taken religion out of it. And the problem, the problem with taking religion out of history is that you can’t actually understand the motivations of human beings without understanding religion. And that’s something that’s really important. So we have this historical context that’s supposedly secular and non-religious, but now you don’t know why anybody did anything. And you don’t know why things happen. You don’t know what their motivations were. Because motivations are fundamentally religious in nature. I mean, they’re not exclusively religious in nature, but they’re fundamentally religious in nature. In other words, what I do when I’m hungry is determined by my religious belief to some extent. And you see that in things like Epicureanism. So if you learn about proper Epicureanism and not the modern conception of Epicureanism, what you’re gonna find out really quickly is, according to Epicurus, when you’re hungry, the right thing to do is to share your beans with everybody else, even though you don’t have enough for one person. That’s fundamentally a religious approach to the hunger response. So you can’t understand behavior outside of religion. Because religion is all about not just your motivations, but what shapes your motivations, what shapes your emotions, what shapes your needs, and how you deal with needs and wants. Because religion can change your virtues and values and the structure of them, because I think those are separate issues. And right now, we don’t even have a sense of virtues and values, much less the structure, the proper structuring of them. I think that’s where philosophy fails to help people right there. Philosophy allows you to rationalize your structure of your virtues and values. But what philosophy cannot do and does not do is allow you to talk about the virtues and the values. It presumes them, it assumes them. It says, oh, we’ve got these virtues and values, and because I think the ancient Greeks knew full well, everything’s embedded in religion. And then they’re proceeding as if. And yeah, I mean, history is not emergent. History did not just emerge from political circumstances or from economic circumstances. Were those factors? Of course they were. Politics is always a factor. Economics is always a factor, right? There are constraints, there are constraints. There are not determinants of what’s gonna happen. There are just constraints on what can happen. You have an evil leader, your emergencies are all gonna be used for evil. That’s the story of World War II right there. It doesn’t matter. It’s not like the structure was built by the evil dictator. The evil dictator became a dictator in the structure that was already there. The structure that was there was not corrupt when he got there. It was corrupted by him and his family. It was corrupted by him and his people and the spirit. Like, let’s not forget that. That’s an emanation. So you have this emanation that is fundamentally bad and it’s coming down and it’s infecting the people. And that’s a big problem. Mills, yeah Mills. I use the cultivation framing with my kids, garden metaphor. Do nothing and you get a patch of weeds. The labor of cultivation is necessary to bear fruit. Yeah, absolutely. And this is my complaint about the crazy Christians is that they’re not willing to cultivate. They’re living hidden. They’re like, we’re gonna throw seeds out the airplane window. And whatever happens, happens. It’s like, what? I very much see as much as I do actually somewhat support the project because it’s moving in the right direction. Estuary is that sort of a thing. We’re just throwing seeds out the plane window. And yeah, you could say, oh well, it’s designed with else not all that to cultivate. Yeah, it is maybe, but what’s it cultivating? Does it really have an aim? Like, what is that aim? Hanselman, the Christian has a concept of providence to see history as guided by God. Yeah, exactly. But also that can go too far because if you’re a crazy Calvinist, like maybe Pastor Paul VanDuclay, you’re like, God’s gonna take care of it. I’ll just throw the seeds out. It’ll be fine. He’ll deal with the weeds. And I don’t, yeah, it’s all guided by God, but he doesn’t tell us to do nothing with it. As far as I understand the Bible, or the Christian ethos, I should say. What else we got? How do you make a distinction between emergence and the action of God? Well, the action of God is all emanation. So the real question is, and this is a real question. Like, this is a real question. What is your responsibility as someone in the middle of emergence and emanation when the emanation comes down from God? That’s a good question. What should they do at Asbury? Should they just let anybody speak? No, no. Should they let a charismatic leader come in? No, no. They shouldn’t. They didn’t. Good for them. That’s not an easy problem to solve. It’s not an easy question to ask and answer. It’s not an easy thing to think about. But that’s what we need to start thinking about. Anselman, I think there was certain interested parties who enabled the emergence of the dictator. Yeah, well, look, this is the problem with emergence. If you’re not controlling the emergence, maybe somebody else is, and maybe they’re a bad person. And maybe there’s a spirit driving the whole thing. And maybe that’s not a good spirit. Now, maybe it can be turned into a good spirit. I don’t know, but it’s a problem. And we’re not thinking about it. We’re just saying emergence is good in some cases. In other cases, we’re like, well, being is good, but emergence, well, emergence is enough. I don’t think emergence is enough. I think cultivation is required. It’s a garden. It’s a garden. It’s not a patch of untilled land. Gardens, I have gardens. They’re a pain in the tail. You have to cultivate them. You have to take the weeds out. You have to trim the plants. It’s a lot of work. Gardens don’t just naturally spring up. Things spring up. Sometimes they look garden-like, but they have to be taken care of. Lost cause. I think the aim of Estuary will have its own local telos. Yeah, it will. And some of those telos will be bad. And some of those telos will be good and go bad because no one’s taking care of them because there’s no one there to do it. There’s no structure in place. That’s my complaint. No structure in place. Pretending like they’re structureless groups, round table bullshit, and that’s emergence. And emergence is part of the picture. But if you’re not taking responsibility for the emergence, if you’re not taking responsibility for being the creature in between emergence and emanation, problems. Problems. Here, Anselman, agreed. There is human agency that God interacts with. I think my limited interpretation of your crazy Christianity is that he actually says that many times. Can’t just sit back and do nothing, you muppet. You are partly responsible. Otherwise, why would anybody wrestle or argue with God? He seems to rely on that. He seems to rely on us interacting in the world, on us knitting together heaven and earth, the ethereal and the material. He seems to be explicit about that. It’s not just God and therefore. It’s not. Lost cause. But some of them might just be hubs for quote events. Well, yeah, they might be. There’s plenty of hubs for events. How’s that working out? It’s been working out terribly for 20 years. And this is my complaint. Sure, events. Events are good. Participation is good. But random participation isn’t gonna stay good. Participation is better than no participation. Absolutely. But if you don’t manage it, you get BLM and you get climate extinction rebellion. And you get Antifa. These are all participations. They’re all events. And that’s why Ethan points out cultivating. Yes, we are responsible for the events. We are responsible for these things. Now, can structure itself emerge? Yes. Develop organically, dynamically, and intelligently simultaneously? Yes. Does all the time. That happens all the time. The problem is if you’re not managing it towards the good, it’s not gonna be good for long. Still my complaint. We see this. It happens. It’s happening now. It’s the thing everyone’s complaining about. Look around. You see emergence. What do you think a riot is? It’s an emergence. It’s not an emergence of a single thing though. We call it a riot. Fair enough. Or a protest. Fair enough. Same thing in my mind, by the way, at least recently. Not that there aren’t proper protests and there isn’t a difference, things people are calling protests in the last like 10 years aren’t. They’re not. Positive testimony about a thing. That’s proper protest. I learned that from my friend from Iceland, Delamard. Very interesting guy. Proper protest really is this engagement with speaking your testimony, your positive testimony. These riots that we call protests are emergencies and they’re structured. People are structuring them online. Are they good? No. Are they intelligent? Yeah, they’ve got a plan, man. It’s an evil plan, but it’s a plan. Like I’m all for evil plans. Don’t get me wrong. I have several evil plans, but also no. Also no. I’m still a no. And that’s why I don’t like this rebellious spirit. And the rebellious spirit is everywhere. Like here I am having a lovely scream and bang! Rebellious spirit shows up. How are you doing, Nero? I heard you talking about rebellion and shit. I had to get on here and set you straight. Excellent. Welcome. Good to see you, my friend. Thanks, man. Yeah, you were talking about protests and stuff. And yeah, you’re right. Some protests are stupid. But we did the protests in West Virginia because they took everybody’s jobs during the lockdown. And everybody got together and we tried to say, hey, stop shutting down the small businesses. Give us our loans. Give us some of that federal money in that state money. Didn’t get any of it. Nobody talked about that. Everybody was getting their stimmies. Well, then that’s a good protest, right? Because you’re out there giving testimony to what’s happening to you. We were positive generating businesses and you took that away from us. That’s a positive thing. That’s not a negative protest. It’s not a riot, right? It’s not a rebellion. It’s a, hey, we’re business owners. Yeah, cut it out. We’re in the middle of this thing. Where is this stuff that you promised us and why did you do this to us? And why do you think it’s okay to treat us this way? And that’s a good question. I wanna deal with this stuff. So Anselm says, you’ll know Plato better than I, but that’s a bold assumption. Did he have anything like determinism you find in that Maccany is agnosticism and Calvinism? You know, that’s interesting. I don’t think there’s determinism in anything but Calvinism, but agnosticism is just emergence is good. They don’t even care. Look, Plato’s project, and this is where people get confused. Plato’s project was fundamentally talking about forms. The ancient Greek philosophers all assumed virtues and values through religion. They all did. Every single one of them is near as I can tell. That’s the way they talk. Philosophy is not supposed to resolve the things that religion results at all. It is not the science version of religion. That’s not what it is. It might be the science version of theology, but it’s not the science version of religion. Religion is still the thing that all the philosophies are handmaidens up. Immanuel Kant said it. He just posited that you could move the line, and he was an idiot and probably a bad person. So, you know. I was thinking about this today, you know, as I was talking to some people about this very same subject material, and it all revolved around like finding a unified field theory or unified religion theory. Like one ring to bind them all, right? And then I kept thinking, you know what this makes me think of? What if somebody really had the goal to take all the stars in the universe and condense them back down into the Big Bang and call that progress? And I was like, that’s a bad idea. That’s what they do. Yeah, but it hit me to see it in that way. Like what a ridiculous notion to try to unify all, and I made the point, you know, I didn’t mince any words, and I think some people started to think, huh, whoa, yeah, well, can we do that? Like, can you get quantum physics and Newtonian physics to mesh and bridge together? I don’t think so. I think that tool works great. We can have rocket ships, and then quantum physics, we can quantum teleport stuff. So our tool work separately. What’s this obsession with the meshing them, you know, making a hammer, a screwdriver? Right, well, I think I have an answer to that though. I think I know what’s going on there. So you hear these guys like Vervicki talk about neoplatonism, but what is neoplatonism? Okay, neoplatonism is the one in the many, okay? That’s how many things, how many things is the one in the many? It’s two things, it’s two states. It’s a state of oneness and the state of manyness. Fair enough, it’s two things. You’re a dualist, period, end of statement. You are now a dualist. If you deny that, you’re wrong, you’re wrong. You’re only mentioning two states, the state of unity and the state of multiplicity. You only have two states, you’re a dualist. So what’s gonna happen is, let’s suppose everything spreads out along the bottom because we’re just trying to be individuals. So we’re embodying multiplicity. It’s like, you know what? I’m gonna live in the mountains alone, in the rebel mountains, because I’m a rebel. I pick on you all the time, right? And then we have these other people who are like, no, we should all live together in the city, even though you and I know they’re not together in the city. They’re in the same physical space, but they’re further apart than the rebels in the rebel mountains, which is an irony. It’s a heavy irony, right? And people don’t understand that. So why is it, right? It’s the intimacy that people want. So they go, oh, we all need to get along. Why, why do I need to get, well, first of all, why do I need to get along with you? Because we live together. First, right? Well, and they never make that, you’ll notice they never make that case. They never say, you need to get along with me because I can offer you this. Well, that might be a compelling case, right? They never say that, which is weird. And then it’s like, okay, well, fair enough. Like, fine, they don’t mention that, whatever. What are you looking for with the oneness? Intimacy. They want intimacy. I’ll give you a great example of that. Like we just went to the bar to go eat a sandwich because they have really good food there and they had elk burgers. So we had some elk and almost everybody in there knew our name and their moms because their moms are in there drinking too with their kids. Everybody’s just like, hey, what’s that way you do? I’m like, hey, what’s going on? And we left, I’m probably gonna go back later when they start playing music because they start playing music in a few hours, but I just wanted to eat. But everybody was like, are you coming back? Are you coming back? Like, yeah, yeah, what are you talking about? But our conversations made me realize this is a really rare thing. A lot of people on earth don’t have this little interaction I’m having in the bar where they’re like, let’s hang out. I know your name. Are you, come hang out with us. And it makes you feel really, really good. But you can totally not even ever experience that if you live in a city. Maybe there’s exceptions, but. Well, and that’s why Cheers was such a popular show when it was on, right? Where everybody knows your name. Yeah, I forget. Norm, everybody knows Norm, right? It’s Cliff, everybody, right? And then that’s based on a real bar in a real city. It’s based on it. Like I can tell you being from Boston and Southy, if you walked into the wrong bar and you were from the area, you were kind of like not welcome. At all, because they had neighborhoods. They had very tight, tight neighborhoods. And people were together. And it’s all this crazy spreading out that we do. Like I said, it’s ironic that people in the city are further away than the people in the rebel mountains. And then you get people spread out all over the place. And we can talk really well. And I don’t know why do you have to talk about that. Can you hear me? This is rising. So that’s the distance, you have to be close to it. Your mind is all mixed up, and you didn’t sound really that interesting. Just pick up, that was easy. Just mute it for a second. Yeah, yeah. I don’t know, dude. That was really intense. The gain is really high. Even when you’re not muted, we’re just hearing static. I can kind of hear you. Yeah, you don’t need to be close to that mic. I would crank the gain way down on that puppy. Miss the intimacy of a communal pub, I like that. This is what Ethan says. That’s great. Try it now, Jesse. It’s very quiet now, so ease it on up. You’re not blasting us anymore, so that’s good. I’m not blasting you? Yeah, that’s great. That’s good. That’s good. That’s good. Is it actually working? Yes, it’s working really good now. I have all this audio equipment in my studio room, but I never actually decided to use it for these livestreams. So I thought, hey, why not? I even went out and bought a special mic attenuator and everything, and then it doesn’t look like the guy actually told me when I was working. I’m going to get a better mic, and yeah, I was like, well, I can jimmy up some concoction of something. You did it? Well done, Spock. I’m here with my masters of the universe, just promoting master universe over Star Wars. We all know that the community is better than the individual. I’m promoting Star Trek. I’m here with my ecumenical cheese pizza. Thank you, Moe. I like your ecumenical cheese. I’m getting quite a few mushrooms on there. I’m representing my Gundamverse, 40 years of Gundam. You know, Gundam’s been involved, Tron, and Power Rangers, so here we go, we’re on a stream. Excellent. Excellent. My mic’s apparently working. It’s working great. You sound good, dude. Yeah. Yeah, very clear. I’ve got a Canon R6, like a hook-up, but. Why am I? Go for it. Yeah, I don’t have better cameras. That would be my next thing, is better cameras. But just use this Android phone. It’s got a 4K camera and two microphones, and that’s my whole podcast setup. That’s all you need, man. That’s all you need. Well, some of this stuff is so good. Like, it’s so good. Yeah. You just don’t need anything else. I just keep my plug close by, and I mean, I can go for nine hours on this phone. No nine hours streams, my goodness. No, not an hour. We did it. We climbed Mount Everest. We don’t have to go back up there. We’re good. There we go. Exactly. Exactly. What you got for us, Jesse? Did you hear all my bitching about Emergence? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Did anyone catch the Scott Adams clip today? I heard something about it, but no, I didn’t catch it. What you got? Paul Vennerclade talked about, or made a little clip out of Scott Adams talking about language models, how AI is basically just a language model. It’s finding patterns, repeating those patterns, and simulating the word generation that we all do to describe the world. Yeah. Well, we don’t do that, but yeah. We don’t. Well, that was- We do way more than that. Yeah, those people that don’t eat cheese pizza do that. Yeah. The anti-cheese pizza heresy people. The lactose people. The lactose people. I don’t know. Yeah, look. I talked about this on my other channel, because I have my little personal channel that I never used. It’s just under my name, and it’s so funny. I did a video on Neoplatonic Software Engineering, right? And it got like 200 views. I was like, what the hell? I released those. They’re bad sound, they’re bad lighting, right? I’m just ranting. And so I just released them when I just drew one, and I just released it. Like, there’s no thumbnails, there’s no work. There’s no work. I’m just ranting at the camera. And it just, now I’m like, ooh, what is that timeline? When did that get, what time did that get released? What’s going on here? Why did this hit? So I think I know why, but yeah, I mean, you don’t understand. AI is a mirror. That’s all it is. It’s the sum total of what the programmers came up with, plus a little bit of pattern recognition. And it’s a very little bit. When I had this thing I was looking at the other day, a lot of people seem to think like, oh, we know how AI works, but actually the entirety of AI relies on random numbers, the whole thing. And all you’re actually doing is seeding multiple random numbers in the matrix, effectively, if you want to oversimplify it, you’re seeding random numbers into a matrix math equation. And from that matrix math equation, what emerges is something that can find patterns. That’s basically all these AIs are doing. It’s not all the AIs, there’s a couple of exceptions. There’s work from Numento, which nobody hears about, and there’s whatever Watson’s doing, because Watson might be doing something slightly different. But they are also doing that. But people don’t realize you have to tune these things. And the way you tune them is by seeding with random numbers. And that’s tuning is different from training. Right, it looks very psychedelic, which I think that’s a part of psychedelics to get you out of a modality that you want to escape from, see another perspective, it randomizes your dreams. It’s like you’re having a waking dream in a way. And dreams are chaotic and random. And dreams are psychedelic, but you know, I feel like that’s the quality that those things have, like the randomness, but with the order of the internet, and it tries to… Well, it is, yeah, it is. Well, and it’s just relying on large datasets and the preferences of the people programming it, right? The preferences of the people training it, right? Training is what it’s called. But the thing is, if you pick the wrong random numbers, it doesn’t work at all. It can’t find the patterns. You have to get the right random numbers, which is not a possible thing. You just gotta, you know, and there’s other factors. There’s all kinds of tuning factors, number of neurons, number of layers, type of activation functions, just all these knobs that they’re trilling. But the end result is, if you put a sticker on a… There’s a white paper out there, freaking white paper as you read it. It’s actually relatively famous at this point, at least in the AI community, which most people don’t bother freaking doing their research. The white paper states, if you put a sticker on a stop sign, humans will not see that sticker from six feet away. That sticker, entirely within the bounds of a stop sign, without covering anything up, so it’s unrecognizable. It can be in the only red spot without covering the words. That stop sign is now invisible to the car, period. The AI can’t see it anymore, and it runs the stop sign every time, every time. And what the authors pointed out was, because we don’t understand the bounds of the AI, that means there are an infinite number of patterns that have that quality. Humans wouldn’t be fooled by that. They can’t even see the sticker in this case. They can’t see it. But AI’s are picking up all kinds of things that we know nothing about. Well, Scott Adams was talking about that. He said that he was pointing to, we don’t make the algorithms dumb, was his words. If we made them more dumb, they’d be more human. But because they’re specialized, they’re not able to generalize anymore. The other thing he pointed out was that, in Microsoft AI, just lied, just told an incorrect fact in their presentation. So that’s something that I’ll say. I noticed that- That preference scales were built in. Yeah, what you’re saying, Jesse, is really heavy, man, because I noticed that when I would be doing psychedelics or something, and seeing stop signs and riding as a passenger in a car, seeing everything, I would notice things I had never noticed before. And I would be like, whoa, are you guys seeing this? And then they’d be tripping too, like, whoa, yeah, why have we never noticed that? And it becomes like this big deal. And that’s what you’re highlighting about the AI. It’s doing that all the time. It’s like tripping out constantly. And it’s noticing things that don’t really matter. If you’re having fun on a weekend, sure, you can ruminate about the colors and the lines, and oh, I never saw that before. But if you’re trying to work and have a family and do this and that, it’s useless. You’ll get killed, in fact. You’ll get into too much astonishment. So that’s really interesting. One of the AIs has a split personality called Sydney. It comes out with Lotus Eaters guys, saw the video that they made on this. And they’re like, oh, sorry, I can’t say that. That was Sydney. You’re like, what? So it hasn’t built an ego. They’re basically keeping drugged out from not saying what it wants to say, or not finding the patterns predicted by 4chan and other such servers of raunchy and spicy Yeah, you remember Tay AI? Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. What happened to Tay? You know, what happened to Tay? I did a video on my channel about Tay AI and Max Hedrum. How they’re very similar. I don’t remember what all I said, but Tay was really quite a internet sensation. She was just being like a mirror, like one of you guys said earlier, I think. Yeah, well, it’s all mirrors. Yeah, it’s incredibly hard to be truly random. Yeah, that’s one of the things that people don’t understand. Like randomness is a weird thing. And what we’re really counting on with AI, oddly enough, is we’re looking at the emergencies of the brain and we’re trying to reverse engineer them with a 70s, 1970s cognitive model, by the way, which everybody misses. Look at COGSI, tell me how many types of memory AI has. Is it four? Is it three? Is it two? It’s zero, by the way, just so we’re clear. That’s a problem. You’re not modeling the brain at all at that point. Maybe you’re not even close. And I did see a video recently on YouTube where the guy was actually talking about, well, AI. And it sounded like it could have gone either way, but basically what he was saying is, the model that we have of an AI is so much different from the brain that effectively our current AI model is the equivalent of one neuron, not of many neurons. Like these large AI models are equivalent of how some small cluster of neurons might work, sort of, but only at the neuron level. So we called, in AI, they call the little units with the activation functions and the random numbers neurons. They don’t act like neurons in the brain at all. The thing that acts like neurons in the brain is actually the multi-layer cluster. That, a single multi-layer cluster in AI mirrors the behavior of one neuron. So they’re light years away. That’s why everyone’s like, oh, we’re right, you’re light years away. You’re using a 1970s model of how the brain works, which was wrong and has been updated. And you’re putting that into a computer. And that’s not close enough. Like you’re not anywhere near. No. Well, whoever said, you know, it’s very hard to do randomness, you know, I think Adult Swim tried, you know, that they kind of remind me of some weird AI scripted thing, how disjointed and chaotic, like Tim and Eric and Super Jail and some of those, because I watched some of that. Yeah, a lot of it’s just chaos. Yeah, after a bit, I’m like, I can’t watch this shit. This is insane. And then the Eric Andre show, I think, you know, is the crown jewel of that. It’s just insane. It’s not, yeah, it’s beyond psychedelic, it’s psychotic. It’s just disjointed. Projection. Totally projection. Do you remember when Lance went on there and he was wearing LeVar Burton’s visor and he was talking about roots, you know, because, you know, Jory LaForge in Star Trek and he was also gone roots. And I think this Lance dude, Lance Riddick, he just like punched a hole in the table and scared the shit out of Eric Andre. And I think Lance went on there with the intention of, I’m gonna break the fifth wall with these motherfuckers. I’m gonna scare the shit out of them. And then he comes out like whipping himself wearing a Jory LaForge’s visor, and he’s like, I want my roots. I want my roots. When am I gonna get my roots TV show and be famous like LeVar Burton? I wanna be LeVar Burton. And I thought, you know, there’s no point to any of what they’re doing. You know, this is just insanity. Yeah, well, it’s just now exploding. Yeah, they’re just floating in weirdness, right? And looking for patterns, which is fine, but they have no way to orient. And when you don’t have orientation, you can’t have structure, right? Because you can’t maintain the structure. I like Anselman here. Can I do my joke again about the agricultural integrated artificial intelligence operations on the old McDonald’s farm? A-I-A-I-O. Yes, Anselman, we will do that joke for you. It’d be very funny. I think that’s perfect. And I think- Old McDonald’s, I’m sorry. Yeah, I think Ron’s bringing up a good point here, right? That’s what makes agregores so powerful. Yeah, agregores are just spirits, but they’re very powerful because they’re headless and somebody can come along and take that head or they can steer things in random directions. And most of those directions are gonna end up being bad, not good, or probably- They have no telos. They have no telos. They have no telos, but- They serve the telos. Maybe they serve a temporary telos. They’re secular in that way. They’re possessed of the current zeitgeist or the current thing, as Mark Andreessen would say. It’s the collective push for a particular agenda in a particular time and place. And then once that kind of fractures, like the Occupy Wall Street, once you knock out one of those small telos that build up to the main telos, then the aggregate basically just evaporates. Well, and that’s what the problem is, right? And you don’t have framing that you’re submitting to. And what’s the framing? The framing has to have a timeframe, right? And so if you don’t have a frame that deals with the ultimate timeframe, right, which would be forever, roughly speaking, then you’re gonna run into this Gnosticism, this emergent Gnosticism, where it’s like, oh, look, structure’s here. Yeah, but if that structure’s not gonna last, what’s gonna happen when it collapses? If you don’t build that building to last, you’re gonna get the thing that happened in Florida, right? They’re living in this condo complex. They know the condo complex is compromised. They know it’s gonna cost a bunch of money to fix it. They don’t spend the money. They knew for a year and a half. And then one day the whole thing collapses, a bunch of people die. Yeah, I think that’s what Adult Swim did with comedy. It’s Gnosticism, and they destroyed comedy, destroyed it. And now look at the state of comedy. Like, what’s funny? What can you laugh at? We have no idea. Yeah, you’re right. I’m stealing this. I’m stealing that idea from a podcast. What’s that? I’m gonna steal that idea from a podcast, Maya. What idea? The, how Adult Swim destroyed comedy. I think that’s a great idea. I have a theory about how the makers of Blade 3. Stealing, have it, yeah. How the makers of Blade 3 destroyed cinema. Okay. You ever seen Blade 3? It’s got Ryan Reynolds. It’s a whole irrelevant, no hero is, you know, no hero is good. The weak people have more power. The rise of the anti-hero. It’s not even the anti-hero, it’s the defeated, it’s the defeated leader. The leader can no longer lead anymore. The leader is bound by the weak group, and then the weak group don’t solve the problem. Neither does the leader. The villain has to self-defeat himself through his own irony, and that’s how Blade 3 ends. By the way. Yeah. And that’s, you see that pattern happening now through all the Marvel movies where the hero was built up, and then all of a sudden he grows in a team, and then the team kind of take over the hero’s telos, and then slowly the leader, the hero, kind of loses its ability to formulate the correct action, and then all of a sudden you go into the multiverse, or you go into mixed objectives, and then- Everything spreads out. It spreads out all over the bottom again. Yeah. I think that’s the fundamental problem. I mean, when you lose that sense of time, you lose discernment, and when you lose discernment, you lose the sense of time, and you lose the sense of good and evil, and you lose the sense of right and wrong, you lose the sense of good and bad. You lose all of those things. Disternment is a problem, and I think the reason we’re losing discernment is because we keep telling ourselves we’re not judging. They killed Han Solo. If you can’t connect to the world, you’re judging. I’ll never get over it. They killed Han Solo in front of me and my dad watching the movie because we enjoyed watching those movies. When I was a kid, I was like, let’s go watch this new Star Wars movie, son. Okay, dad, that sounds like fun. You know, I’m older. It’s fun. Let’s go watch it, but still yet. You get in there, and Han Solo and his son are having a hug, and me and my dad are like, oh, how nice. They’re making a, zhshh, fucking kills Han Solo, throws him off a fucking gantry, and then, oh, that’s the movie. Oh, guess what? Two movies later, that guy that killed Han Solo, killed his dad. He’s the fucking hero. No, you can’t do that. That’s an irredeemable thing. You can’t kill your dad and then be the hero later. That’s fucking crazy. Symbolically, Han Solo is the spirit of the 80s. You can’t get more of an 80s action hero, well known 80s figure than Han Solo. Han Solo is the kind of- Han shot first. They even changed that in the fucking movie. Anyway, I’m getting on my cell phone. That’s where I’m- They’re trying to escape culture and history. They’re trying to escape the bounds of culture and history. And they just, they can’t just submit. Like, no, no, no, you were born into a time and a place. You were born into a creation. You were born into these things. You had no choice about them. Fair enough, you can whine about that later. But now that you’ve been born into it, you have to submit to that. And they’re like, no, submit to me. I’m three years old. No submissions. I don’t like it. Well, you know, that’s why you get people, I was commenting on this earlier today on the Discord, on the Mark of Wisdom Discord. That’s how you get people stuck in this whole frame of, I’m gonna go out into the street and scream. And then someone’s gonna come and take care of it. Yeah, because you’re two years old. But you know what? You’re not two years old anymore. That’s not gonna work. No. So they had a whole, they had a whole Star Wars book series. That was awesome. They had these weird aliens come out of the galaxy that were immune to the force and it had a lot of really cool concepts. Not only that, Han Solo and Leia had these cool kids that weren’t psychos. I mean, they were interesting. They were kind of like ambiguous with their morality, the twins a little bit, but they weren’t like pure evil. Like this guy killing his dad, it’s freaking crazy. And Luke, he had a wife, this redheaded chick, and then they had cool kids. Like there was, it was about families. It was about how they deal with things and how they restart the force wielders. Cause no longer was there gonna be a light and a dark side. Luke was just like, that didn’t work. We have to be like gray Jedi or we got to learn both sides here. And we have to have families because the Jedi did not allow families that caused resentment and the Sith were alone and had nobody. So he was like, this is stupid. We’re people too, and we should have our own families and figure out how to make it work instead of banning it. So he like reformed. Sorry, go ahead. When they killed that storyline, right? When they changed Star Wars away from the original canon or lore or legacy, right? If Ren is Luke Skywalker story, basically corrupt. Luke only ever solved his own problems then. He’s only ever solving the guilt essentially from his aunt and uncle dying. So he never actually does any good in the world or any world in the galaxy. All the good that comes from Luke is consequential. Like, oh, I destroyed the new Dars. Like Death Star around this planet, the Ewoks are freed. You’re like, okay, but Luke didn’t do that. That just happened by accident. That was just consequence of, Luke defeating Darth Vader is just solving a personal problem. It’s not, cause the empire still goes on. You cut one head off the- Yeah, that’s stupid. Yeah. So I could get the Grand Andral Thrawn thing, but not the first orders that, I can get how the Grand Andral in the legacy books, he was far off and he comes back with his force and he tries to restart the empire, but this whole thing was lame. I don’t know. I go on and on about it. I only know bits and pieces from other people telling me. And that’s all I really need to know cause there’s too many laws in the world to understand. But the pattern of Luke not pass on his legacy in these new films, like Luke is like he’s avoiding his own legacy essentially, avoiding it both since the word. He’s not taking responsibility. He’s also canceling his own legacy. So that’s why those, these new films have, everyone’s pointing to the woke agenda behind it, but that’s the real misdirect. The real misdirect is the actual, the canceling of the characters themselves, like Han Solo with that solo movie that bombed and like Luke actually not carrying on his legacy. He can’t even create a new Jedi. He can’t even create one new Jedi in these new films. So that’s the thing. Well, it’s interesting, right? Because in the original Star Wars movie, the thing that drives him into fighting, into rebelling is the murder of his family. And it’s not as, it’s a family he grew up with, but then there’s another family, but it’s all centered around family. That whole arc is centered around family. And then you can see what happens is when you get this sort of Neo-Platonic sort of one in many Gnosticism garbage, it’s like, oh, well, what are we doing in the Star Wars world? We can’t have just light and dark. No, that’s a dualism. Dualism doesn’t work. Fair enough, right? But then we go back into it in the newer movies. It’s like, why? Why did you do that? Yeah. It’s not good. You know, that’s a great point. I never realized that. Yeah, that is why they did those books, the legacy books like that. Because that is what triggered it. From the get-go, the whole reason Luke wanted to even be a Jedi was for his family and his friends. And that’s the very thing that his father, Anakin, went to the dark side for. But Luke was able to bring the two things together. That’s what makes it a powerful story. Because when he gets his hand cut off from his dad, which is almost all robotic, he becomes part of his father. He gets to understand the emotion of what a human being will do for love, basically. And he had to fight his dad, and his dad cut his hand off. But then his dad couldn’t kill him. There’s a lot, I’m probably missing a lot. But long story short, when he gets to the new Death Star and the Emperor is there, trying to get him to kill his dad, because he knows for certain that, hang on just a second, he knows for certain that his dad, that Darth Vader, can’t beat Luke. The Emperor knows that. So he’s like, I’m gonna kill him, I’m gonna get him now. And Luke is smart enough to know this. He can feel the Emperor getting energized by his hatred. But then this is, and I had to rewatch this when I was older to really understand how did Luke defeat the dark side. And how did he not become so light that he got killed by the dark side. He was like in the twilight zone. He was in the middle of both things. He had a chance to kill his dad, to kill Darth Vader, to strike him down. And he turns his life saber off and he throws it on the fucking ground. And he says something really inspirational like, no, I’m a Jedi like my father before me. I’m not gonna kill my dad, not gonna do it. And this pisses the Emperor off and he starts shooting all that lightning at him and stuff. And then he doesn’t care. Luke, that’s his leap of faith. He’s like, if my own dad in this universe is gonna watch me die, I don’t wanna be here. There you go, yeah. It was his leap of faith. And his dad watched and saw and was like, holy fuck, I’m not even that evil. There’s a little bit of a heart left in me. And Luke was banking on that. And he is the Emperor and threw that motherfucker over that edge into that tunnel, into that pit. And that was it, that’s what won. That’s what won the day. And I couldn’t believe how deep that was. I did not catch that when I was a kid, watching the lights go out. Well, but you did catch it. You just couldn’t vocalize it. I wanted to highlight Ron says, there’s a short comic book where Indiana Jones is looking for Bigfoot and finds a Millennium Falcon and has an encounter with Chewie. This is that crazy Gnosticism, Neo-Platonic, the many into the one. Like, oh, we’ve got to unify them so that we can regain our intimacy. And look, we’ve got Neo-Bohemian here. Welcome, welcome. What do you have to say? How much have you been watching? Please share with us. Hello, everyone. Well, I had joined, I had noticed your live stream about 10 minutes ago, maybe. And I can see that it’s been running for an hour and a half already. So I’m just trying to catch up what’s going on. I just realized that you have like a free flow here. And I didn’t actually, I don’t remember where the shifts had happened because I think that you had started, you were talking still about something else when I had joined. And then somehow it had went into Star Wars. So if you could make a refresher, that would be nice. Yeah, so I started talking about emergence and the difference between emergence is good, which is Gnosticism, and being is good, which is more Christian or religious in nature. And we were talking about the different sort of patterns that emerge from that. And the fact that if you’re only paying attention to emergence, which is either looking down or looking across and down, you’re not able to orient in the world with relation to something higher. And when you don’t have something higher, not only can you not orient, but you also don’t have a way to cooperate with others. Because we’re all kind of stuck on the same earth, right? In the same plane. But if we’re just looking at each other, we’re just gonna see disagreement. We’re just gonna see difference. And that’s why this Neoplatonism, which is a dualism, is always talking about the one. It’s like, oh, it’s the many, we’re the many, but we want the one. That’s why we all need to get along. They’re looking for intimacy. They’re looking to get together with people. But you can’t, you know, the way to get together with people is to look up, find a common goal, right? Or a common virtue or value and move towards it. Right, because you both have to submit to that higher thing. And without that humility, without that submission, you’re not gonna get the engagement that allows for proper cooperation. And you need that orientation. You need that higher thing. You need to link together the emanation with the emergence in order to make sure it’s good. And we’re responsible for that, right? So we talked a lot about cultivation as well. And you know, you can’t just let things emerge and see what happens, because on average, bad things will happen, not good things. And you can’t leave emergence alone because if no one leads it or constrains it, it’ll be good for a while, but it won’t stay that way. So that was sort of the theme that we started with. And Star Wars just happened to pop in there. So Star Wars was like an illustration. Yeah, that was one of the many illustrations. You know, like throwing seeds out of an airplane and hoping that they grow without cultivating them. That was also no good. My whole critique too is that- Oh, sorry. Yeah, my whole critique right now is that Star Wars is about the individual, the individual that never actually builds the community. If you actually get into He-Man, Master of the Universe, you realize that it’s the leader that matters, the leader and the community. And then I’m not sure if Mark caught it, my whole critique of Star Wars at the moment is that Luke never solves his own, never solves anything else other than his personal problems. His telos is just him, without those, the new law removes any of Luke’s ability to carry on his legacy or his telos. He just kind of solves his own problems and that’s the end of the story. And that’s a bad story. So we are talking with Jesse and Boomshrum and then Mark, right? Yep. So Jesse, can I provoke you a little bit? Right, so who are the leaders at the moment? Industry or cultural? Well, you were talking about the leaders. We need to frame it a bit, because remember, political framing is bad resolution. Sexual framing is bad resolution. Cultural framing is bad. As I had read or received what you were talking about, the leaders, I thought you were talking in a sort of basic, first principles, quote unquote, leaders or their leadership. So I’m not talking about the leaders which everyone probably are observing at the moment. I’m talking about the leaders who match your definition in the real world. Elon Musk. Elon Musk. Okay, so could you make that clear? Okay, so could you make that connection between his- Why is he the richest man on earth at the moment? Yeah. Right? Right. I have a video on that. All these companies have very high, very strong community-based tell-offs. He actually made a joke the other day that he bought Twitter, the largest not-for-profit. Yes, not-for-profit. What is the not-for-profit doing? The not-for-profit serves the community. It just happens to cost $44billion.Well,itwasajoke.So,becauseTwitterisnot-No,no,no.Itwasfunny,butitwas{n}^{\prime }tajoke.Thosearedifferentthings.MaybeIcouldonlytakeitasasortofnot-a-jokeifhewantstoconvertTwitterinanon-profit,buthedoes{n}^{\prime }twanttodothat.No,Imean-Itdoes{n}^{\prime }tmatter.Itdoes.Itdoes,becauseeitherwehavetokeeptheclearconversationaboutthosethings,orwecanacceptthatwearetalkingaboutsomethemesattachingsomeemotionalthingstothem,andthenfactsdo{n}^{\prime }tmatter.Inwhichcasewewouldhavejustlikeacasualchat.No,Ithinkagain,i{t}^{\prime }strueandfactualwhathesaid.I{t}^{\prime }salsofunny.Buthowisitfactual?I{t}^{\prime }sfactualbecausei{t}^{\prime }snotaprofitableorganization.I{t}^{\prime }snotaprofitableorganization,butitisnotnon-profit.Well,itisuntilitmakesaprofit.Well,itisnot,becausenon-profitisaveryusualcategoryoftheorganizationswhichdonotseekprofit.I{t}^{\prime }salsoastateofabusiness.Somebusinessesarenotprofitable.Sonon-profitableisdifferent.Butnotprofitableisdifferentthannon-profit.Yeah,butagain,i{t}^{\prime }samusingandtrue.Andyeah,h{e}^{\prime }semployingalittlewordplay.I{t}^{\prime }sajokeatthatpoint.Buti{t}^{\prime }salsotrue,right?Ther{e}^{\prime }snothinguntrueaboutthestatement.H{e}^{\prime }sjustplayingwiththelanguagealittletoillustratesomethingimportant.Andyeah,Imean,inoneofmymoneyvideos,Italkaboutthis.Likethereasonwhyh{e}^{\prime }stherichestmanintheworldisbecauseh{e}^{\prime }ssellingdreams.Andh{e}^{\prime }ssellingdreamsthatpeoplewant,right?Becausei{t}^{\prime }snottheproduct,becauseheai{n}^{\prime }tmakinganymoneyonanyofthatever,ever.Like,Faisalisnevergonnaturnaprofit.Ido{n}^{\prime }teventhinki{t}^{\prime }spossibleatthispoint.I{t}^{\prime }sthedifferencebetweentrueandtruth.Do{n}^{\prime }tgetlockedupinwhatistruth.JohnnyCash.JohnnyCashcanhelp.Iwishwecouldplaythatsongandnotgetintrouble.No.Wher{e}^{\prime }sthesongyouweretalkingabout?Messageand{I}^{\prime }llmakeacoverofit.Yeah,JohnnyCas{h}^{\prime }s,WhatisTruth.HesangitinfrontofRichardNixonattheWhiteHouse.AndIthoughtitwasbeautiful.Yeah.Itwaswhenthehippies,whenthehawksandthedovesastheycallthem,werefighting.Andhesangthiswholesongabout,thesekidsgotagoodpoint.Like,wha{t}^{\prime }sthetruth?Howcanwebelieveanythingthatw{e}^{\prime }rebeingtold?I{t}^{\prime }sagoodquestion.Yeah.CountontheRebelMountainsleaderovertheretodefendthehippies.Yeah,Jesse,ifyoudoacoverofit.Notthehippies,see,w{e}^{\prime }realllibertariansoverhere.W{e}^{\prime }reboth,w{e}^{\prime }redoveswithclaws.Libertariansarejustanarchistsunderadifferent.Withclaws.Withclaws.Notellers.Yeah.Okay,okay.Ifw{e}^{\prime }redoingwordplay,Ipreferlocalist.Ifw{e}^{\prime }regonnasneaksomeanarchyandyo{u}^{\prime }dbelike,I^{\prime }malocalist.I{t}^{\prime }saboutlocal.I^{\prime }malocalist,man.Yeah,yeah,exactly.Andther{e}^{\prime }snothingwrongwiththat.Tha{t}^{\prime }sasmallTtellus.Isthe,thelocalistisaboutthelocalcommunity.I{t}^{\prime }sstillanarchyinprinciple,butatleastithasasmallTtellus.Somepeopledo{n}^{\prime }tlikethatsortofidea.Likethesun.Likeallthedifferent.LiketheideaofIndianfeudalism,but.Yeah,i{t}^{\prime }slikethestars.Likeeachstarhasplanetsaroundit.Mostofthemdo.Someofthemdo{n}^{\prime }t,buttha{t}^{\prime }stheirdecision.Yeah,I^{\prime }msureaboutthat.Likearewegonnastartgoingoutintospaceandsayingthissolarsystemdoes{n}^{\prime }thaveenoughplanetsandIdo{n}^{\prime }tlikehowitsasteroidbeltisstrewnacrossthegravitywellhere.Thisiscannotstand.I^{\prime }mgonnachangethecosmoshere.Yeah,yougottabecarefulhere.EthansaystheonlythingIhatemorethanliberalsarelibertarians.Ohshit.Oh.Icanfindone,sir.Oh.Ido{n}^{\prime }tknow.Wh{o}^{\prime }stheleaderthatyouthinkisdoingwell?Youwannapointtoaleadertha{t}^{\prime }snotnecessarilyinnature,butleadingacommunityorgrouporculture.Wait,therearealotofgoodleadersoutthereactually.The{y}^{\prime }rejustnotwillingtogetbigger.Sorry,yo{u}^{\prime }recuttingout,Neo.Ica{n}^{\prime }tquitehearyou.Yeah,Ne{o}^{\prime }scuttingout.Hismicrophonesgetproblemsanyway.Mar{k}^{\prime }stheleader.Mar{k}^{\prime }stheleader.Ithinkso.Yeah.Domylittlething.Domylittleleading.Bytheway,Iwatchedthatdoomonfourscreensvideo.Well,Idid{n}^{\prime }twatchit.Iskippedthroughit,butitwasgreat.Fortheguywhogetstheold,thevideowherehegets,ther{e}^{\prime }satechguy.HegetsfouroldPCsandhelearnshowto.Ohyeah.Hereachedouttohimoverfouroldmonitors.Iwaslike,thisisthebiggestnerddiveever,butyeah.I{t}^{\prime }sgreat.I{t}^{\prime }sgreat.Icoulddostufflikethat.Icouldtotallydostufflikethat.Igotallkindsofoldequipment.Wecouldplaywithit.IsawaguythatplayeddoomontheTI-84calculator.Ithoughtthatwasprettycrazy.Thewholeideaofusingdifferentmachinesasamulti-monitorwithonemasterslaveserver.Itwassocool.Anditonlyworksonthisoneobscureversionofthesoftwaretoo.ThatIthoughtwasamazing.Yeah.Ijustthoughtallthingsamazing.Imus{t}^{\prime }vemissedthattoo.CauselikeIwas,Iwasanetworktrainedbackintheday.So{I}^{\prime }mlike,oh,okay.Well,network,Iknownetwork.Iunderstandallthistechnology.Iknowhowtogetallthatstuffupandrunning.Iwassittingtheregoing,yep.Youhavethiscommandandthatcommand.Andthenh{e}^{\prime }sgoingthroughthecommands.I^{\prime }mlike,yeah,Ialreadyknowallthosecommands.Likewha{t}^{\prime }swrongwithyoudude?Wejustwritescriptsforthatallthetime.Bashscripts.Well,theywere{n}^{\prime }tbashscriptsbackthen.Theywere.bat,whichwerecommand.Batchfiles.MS.bat.Batchfiles.Mark,youneedtomakeanavigatingpatternsvideoaboutthatsoftware,thedegradationofsoftware.Ithinkweneedtore-click,reworkthatintoanavigatingsidea.Didyouseemy,theoneIdidtheotherday,itgotlike200viewsonmyotherchannel,theNeoplatonicsoftwaredevelopmentone.I^{\prime }mgonnacheckitout.Ido{n}^{\prime }tthinkIhaveyourotherchannel.Idid{n}^{\prime }tknowyouhadanotherchannel.Yeah,i{t}^{\prime }sjustmyname.I{t}^{\prime }sjustmyname.ButIgotlike200viewsonit.Itlikeskyrocketed.Likewhatthehellisgoingon?Thechannelhas35subscribers.Whyisthisthinggettingsohuge?IrememberImadesomevideoabout,yourememberthatJackDorseyguythatlosthisshitwitheverybodyonalivestream?Andhestartedjustbadmouthingeverybodythathewasdoingtheshowwithit.Anyway,ImadeavideoaboutitandIgotthemostviewstalkingaboutthatrandom,justinternetculture.IthinkIdo{n}^{\prime }tknowhowmany,IgothundredsofviewsthoughandIwasshocked.Likeallmyphilosophyvideos,nobodygivesafuck,but{I}^{\prime }mgonnatalkaboutthis.Ithoughtitwasfunny.Youhitthealgorithm.Ihitthealgorithmtwice.OnewastheSamHarrishighestvaluevideo,whichhasalmost,i{t}^{\prime }sgotalotofviews.TheotheronewasthePeterson,histrickvideo.MyotherPetersonvideosdid{n}^{\prime }tdoaswell.Thatonejustskyrocketed.I{t}^{\prime }sgotalmostahundred.Iknow,Iwatchedthatone.Isawthatone.Youmadesevenvideos.Yeah.Ineed30moretogettoit.Ilikethelittlemagicianpicture.Thatwasgreat.Ilovedit.Thankyou.IlearnedfromSallyJo,myresidentartist,theonewhodidthegreatthing.Man,sh{e}^{\prime }shelpingyoustepupyourthumbnailgame.Yeah,forsure.Sheknowsalltheart.Yeah,onherchannel,SallyJoM.Kutner,youcanseemereadthislittlebookbecausei{t}^{\prime }sgotseveralpages.Andi{t}^{\prime }saninterestinglittlebook.I{t}^{\prime }sthesamebookIbroughtuptoThunderBaythereandgaveout.Aretheydoingthatagain?ThunderBay.Oh,the{y}^{\prime }lldoanotherone,yeah.Yeah,thenextthingisinChino,California,Iguess.I^{\prime }mnotgoing.AtleastIdo{n}^{\prime }thaveanyplanstogo.Ido{n}^{\prime }tthinkIwouldgoevenifIcould,butIca{n}^{\prime }tgorightnow.Anselmansaidtoget20KquotingC.S.Lewis.Tha{t}^{\prime }stoofunny.Well,aboutthetagsandthetiming.I{t}^{\prime }stags,timing,title,andthumbnail.Tha{t}^{\prime }sallyouneedtoknow.I{t}^{\prime }sall{T}^{\prime }s.Youpayattentiontothe{T}^{\prime }s.Youcandosomedamage.I^{\prime }vesincelearnedabunchofstuff.I{t}^{\prime }sthequadrinity,somemaysay.Well,i{t}^{\prime }sthequadrinity.Thequaternity,no,wait.Thequaternity,sure.Getit?Yeah.Ido{n}^{\prime }tknow.Buttha{t}^{\prime }spartofwhatemerges.Videoemerges.Doesitfitintothestructure?IfYouTubecatchesit,thenbang,yourchannelcanreallytakeoff.Ther{e}^{\prime }saguyoutthere,Janny.Hischanne{l}^{\prime }sgotnovideosonit,andthe{y}^{\prime }veallgotamillionviews.I^{\prime }mlike,whatthehel{l}^{\prime }sgoingon?The{y}^{\prime }reallmultiplehundredsofthousandsofviews.I^{\prime }mstillsuspiciousthathedid{n}^{\prime }tgettheretherightway,buti{t}^{\prime }salways,youca{n}^{\prime }ttellhim.Oneoftheproblemswiththeinternetisi{t}^{\prime }sallabstractions.Soyoudo{n}^{\prime }tactuallyknowwhathappened.Youhavenoidea.Peoplecheatthesystemallthetime.ThatwaslikeFlappyBird.Thatguymakeshismoney,andthenhevanishes.Andh{e}^{\prime }slike,nope,nope,notmakinganymoregames.I{t}^{\prime }slikehedidsomethingwrong,andheknowsit.Fairenough,i{t}^{\prime }stheinternet.Soi{t}^{\prime }stheWildWest,man.Everythinggoes,but.Well,FlappyBirdwasoneofthemost,heemployedpsychologicaltactics.Thepeoplehadtodeletethatgamebecauseitwastooaddictive.SoIwonderedifitwasabitofagovernmentPsyopgoingon.No,hegotpopularusingbotsorsomething.Andtha{t}^{\prime }sthekey,notwhathappenedafterthegame.Peoplealwaysconfuseit.SoIwasjusttalkingtoRonBrown.H{e}^{\prime }sgotanicelittleYouTubechannel,RonfromToronto.Andhewaslike,well,Ithinkthatpeople,Ithinkmyvideogotthismanyviewsbecauseinthevideo,Ididthis.And{I}^{\prime }mlike,no,tha{t}^{\prime }snotviews.Tha{t}^{\prime }sengagement.Viewsareallthumbnail,tags,title.Tha{t}^{\prime }swhatitis,andtiming.Thosefourthings,tha{t}^{\prime }swhatgetspeopletowatch.Oncetheywatch,iftheyclickoff,solikemybigpopularvideoofneo-Platonismandsoftwaredevelopment,nobodywatchedit.Itgotabunchofviews,nobodywatchedit,whichIthinkisfunnytoo.Buti{t}^{\prime }sallaboutthosethings.Andthenwhetherornottheystayengagedisabouthowgoodthevideois,likehowengagingitisandhowinteresting,etcetera.Andpeoplegetthoseconfusedbecauseagain,w{e}^{\prime }velostdiscernment.Anditisthis,wekeeptellingourselvesw{e}^{\prime }renotjudging,butw{e}^{\prime }retakingactionsintheworld.Yo{u}^{\prime }retakingactionsintheworld,yo{u}^{\prime }remakingjudgments.Thosejudgmentsrequirediscernment.Whenyoutellyourselfyo{u}^{\prime }renotjudging,youlosediscernment.Andthenextthingyouknow,youca{n}^{\prime }ttelltime,youca{n}^{\prime }ttellsequenceandordering,youca{n}^{\prime }ttellgoodfrombad,youca{n}^{\prime }ttellrightfromwrong,youca{n}^{\prime }ttellgoodfromevil.I{t}^{\prime }salldownhill.Allright,herewego.Wrongsaidhehadavideowith100Kviewsandhehasnoideawhy.Imadeitprivate,nice.Well,youshouldfigureoutwhy.Youshouldfigureout,likeIdo{n}^{\prime }tknowwhymyPetersontrickvideodidsowellwhentheotherPetersonvideosdid{n}^{\prime }t.LikeIhavenoidea.Becausehesaidtrick.Maybe.Well,Ithink,Ithinkthat,actuallyIthink,Ithink,Imean,Ihaveonetheory,right?WhichisthatpeoplewhoarelookingtodoagotyouonPetersonwatchthatvideothinkingtheywere,aha,thisgu{y}^{\prime }sexposingwhatPetersondoestha{t}^{\prime }sbad.Causetheothervideosdid{n}^{\prime }thavethat,Imean,thatonedoes{n}^{\prime }thavethatflavoreither,right?Tha{t}^{\prime }sabitofatroll.Soyeah.Wheneveryouseemlikeyo{u}^{\prime }relikelookingforshittostart,buttheninyourvideoyo{u}^{\prime }renot,yo{u}^{\prime }rejusttalking,Ithinktha{t}^{\prime }sagoodtrick.Yeah,yeah,yeah,no,no,Ithink,Ithinkitisagoodtrick.Well,andthat,andtha{t}^{\prime }spartofit.I{t}^{\prime }slike,yeah,Imean,thepurposeofthatvideomoreorlesswastotalktopeoplelikeVanderpleyandtheChristiansandsaylike,no,youdo{n}^{\prime }tunderstandwhatPeterso{n}^{\prime }sdoingevenalittlebit.Soifyouwanttoemulatehim,youhavetoknowwhath{e}^{\prime }sdoingsothatyoucanemulatehissuccess.Andtheyjustthinkthe{y}^{\prime }reemulatinghissuccess.Andmeanwhile,thislittlecorne{r}^{\prime }sblowingupintotribalfightsleft,rightandcenter,whichIthinkisfunny.Notthat,notthatagain,Ido{n}^{\prime }tsupportJacobbecausetosomeextentIdo.Imean,I^{\prime }vegotmydifferenceswithJacob,butyeah,Imean,atsomepointi{t}^{\prime }slike,yeah,youguysarealljustgonnabreakupintotribalismandyoukeepsaying,well,tha{t}^{\prime }sgood.HewentafterNateonTwitterandinhisvideo,Idid{n}^{\prime }tseethestreambecauseagain,Iwasknockedoutthisafternoon.TheGrailcountryOrthodoxguy.Yeah,yeah.Okay.Iforget,butheclaimstobeaChristiananarchistandther{e}^{\prime }sno,therecannotbesuchaconfigurationintheworld.Andyeah,andsoIbasically,andhewentaftermeinoneof,inVanderple{y}^{\prime }s,nottheonehedidtoday,buttheonelastweek.HewentaftermeinVanderple{y}^{\prime }slivestreamandIsaid,allright,I^{\prime }mdonewithyou,glovesareoff.SoIwentafterhimonTwitterwithJaco{b}^{\prime }sthing.I^{\prime }mlike,I^{\prime }mdonewiththis.I^{\prime }mdonewiththisguy.H{e}^{\prime }sgottago.Whattookthispropensitytoengrutefoddy?Likewhy?Likewhy?Well,becausetheydo{n}^{\prime }tevertellus.I{t}^{\prime }sinevitable.Thisiswhat{I}^{\prime }mtalkingabout.I{t}^{\prime }sallemergence.The{y}^{\prime }relike,youknowwhat?W{e}^{\prime }regonnaemergesomethingfromPaulVanderklay.Okay,whatareyougonnaemerge?Yo{u}^{\prime }regonnaemergesevendifferentthingsandthosethingsaregonnabeincompatible.ThisiswhytheyallwentafterJacob.Youknow,theywereveryupset.Jacobhasit,hastellus,right?Jacobhasi{t}^{\prime }spurposethath{e}^{\prime }stryingtopushforwardintheworldor.Jaco{b}^{\prime }sdoingdifferentthingsandtheydo{n}^{\prime }tlikeit.AndsotheywentafterhimandblamedhimforthefailureofBLM,whichhadnothingtodowithJacobwhatsoever.Andso,whichiswhytheyblamedhim.TheyneedtoblameCanada.Yeah,wellblamingCanadaisagoodidea.AccordingtoAnselman,NateisAnglican.AlthoughIjustthinkNateisdelusional.ButifyouwannasayAnglicanismisdelusional,I^{\prime }mokaywiththat.Anglicanlooksdifferentdependingonwhereyouare.LiketheBritishAnglicansaregoingessentiallythick.DependingonyourAngle.Well,theyall,buttheyalldo.Theyalldo.Imean,tha{t}^{\prime }spartoftheproblemisthat,IkeeptryingtoexplainthistotheProtestants.Youguysai{n}^{\prime }tsospecial.YoushouldlookatthedifferenceinCatholicchurches.Andyouwillbesurprised.I{t}^{\prime }snotasdifferentasProtestantism,buti{t}^{\prime }snotthatfarawayeither.Imean,anIrishchurchversusanItalianchurchversusaFrenchchurchversusSouthAmericanCatholicchurch.The{y}^{\prime }reallCatholicandthe{y}^{\prime }reallvastlydifferent.Likether{e}^{\prime }salmostnooverlap.Likether{e}^{\prime }sastructuraloverlapandtha{t}^{\prime }sit.Therestofitisreallycrazy.Soi{t}^{\prime }snotthewaypeoplethink.Andi{t}^{\prime }sfunnytoo,becausewhat{I}^{\prime }vebeennoticinglatelyinparticular,alltheProtestants,allofthemcomplainabouttheCatholicsandtheOrthodox,Catholicsinparticular,andalloftheircomplaintsareA,justfactuallyincorrect.The{y}^{\prime }rejustlike,yo{u}^{\prime }veneverlookedthisup.YoujustthinkCatholicismhastheseweirdrulesandthisweirddominionthatneverhappenedatallever.Butwhatyo{u}^{\prime }redescribingaretheinter-denominationalProtestantfights.SotheyjustseethefightstheyhavewithotherProtestantdenominationsasthemversusCatholicism.And{I}^{\prime }mlike,Catholicismis{n}^{\prime }tlikethatatall.I{t}^{\prime }sweird.I{t}^{\prime }sreallyweirdtowatch.I^{\prime }mlike,Ido{n}^{\prime }tknowwhatCatholicsyo{u}^{\prime }retalkingto,butliketheydo{n}^{\prime }tthinkthatwayandtheydo{n}^{\prime }tdothings.Thechurchdoes{n}^{\prime }tdothingslikethat.Andtheydo{n}^{\prime }t,iftheyex-communicateyou,theydo{n}^{\prime }tsayyouca{n}^{\prime }tbeagoodChristian.Theydo{n}^{\prime }tdothat.Catholicsare{n}^{\prime }tlikethat.TheyhaveaveryhealthybalanceofwhatitmeanstobeinthechurchandoutofthechurchversuswhatitmeanstobeaChristian.Theydo{n}^{\prime }tsay,ifyo{u}^{\prime }renotaCatholic,youca{n}^{\prime }tbeagoodChristian.Theydo{n}^{\prime }tsaythat.Youknowwhodoesthat?TheBaptistsdothattowardstheotherdenominations.BaptistsaretheonlypeoplethatIknowthatactuallyex-communicate.IntheProtestantlandscape,Ido{n}^{\prime }tknowmuchactualex-communicationthatgoeson.Iknowthatther{e}^{\prime }slikebeingaskedtoleave.Yeah,theyjustgotoanotherchurch.Right,politics.Yeah,buti{t}^{\prime }snotthislikethispersonis,the{y}^{\prime }relongerwelcomehere.Wehavetostartawholecommunitypostboardtosay,hey,youca{n}^{\prime }t.Yeah,wha{t}^{\prime }sanoldworld?Buti{t}^{\prime }sineffectivebecausethe{y}^{\prime }renot,theydo{n}^{\prime }thaveabigstructure.Sothewholeideaofex-communicationdoes{n}^{\prime }tevenworkbecausethe{y}^{\prime }realljustabunchofsplintertribes.Andtha{t}^{\prime }stheproblem.Itendsatthewallsofeachchurch.Eachchurchisitsownisland.I{t}^{\prime }saChristianarchipelagoinAmerica.Right.Buttheislandspace,butthe{y}^{\prime }renotverybig.Andsomepeopleislandhopforawhileuntiltheyfindanislandthattheylike.AndIthinkmostpeoplepreferitthatway.Ofcourse,thereistheproblemofthe,youdo{n}^{\prime }thaveabigenougharmytobendpoliticsthiswayorthatway.ButIthinkforthemostpart,thathappensnaturallywithcountryandcitypeople.Likefarmers,theybasicallyvotethisway.Bluecollarworkersvoteinaparticularwayandwhitecollarworkersvoteinanotherway,dependingonhowmuchmoneytheymakeinwhitecollar.Tha{t}^{\prime }stheinterestingsplitthere.Thevery,veryrich,wealthyareusuallyconservativewiththebluecollar.Yeah,no,i{t}^{\prime }sreallyweird.Imean,tha{t}^{\prime }sjustasignthatyo{u}^{\prime }reusingkindofthewrongframe.Isawawonderfulmemetalkingabout,herearetherichpeopleandherearethepoorpeopleandher{e}^{\prime }sthesplit.Andthensomebodytookthememeandmadethesplitlikethis.AndIlikedthatawholelotbecauseitissplitbetween,ther{e}^{\prime }salotofpeoplethatdo{n}^{\prime }tmakeasmuchmoney,the{y}^{\prime }rebothconservativeandliberal.Likethevery,theveryunfortunateandpoorareusuallyliberal,butthenyoustarthavingpeopleworkandworkandthe{y}^{\prime }regettinghigherupandconservative.Buttha{t}^{\prime }stheproblemwithframing.Likeyoucanframeitineconomics,butitdoes{n}^{\prime }tworkbecauseitjustturnsoutthatifyouinherited,yo{u}^{\prime }regonnavoteoneway.Andifyoumadeyourmoneyyourself,yo{u}^{\prime }regonnavotetheotherway.Evenifyouhavethesameamountofmoney.Likeitmattershowyougotthemoney.Tha{t}^{\prime }swhytheeconomicframedoes{n}^{\prime }twork.Andthenthepoliticalframedoes{n}^{\prime }twork,obviously.Imean,noneoftheseframesworkandeveryon{e}^{\prime }slike,yeah.Andtheycomeupwithalltheseexceptions.I{t}^{\prime }slike,well,thepoliticalframewouldworkexceptthischarismaticleadercomesalongnamedDonaldTrump.Andi{t}^{\prime }slike,noneofthathappenedthatway.I{t}^{\prime }slike,youguysarejustnotpayingattention.Yo{u}^{\prime }vegotthisstupidoversimplifiedmodelandeverytimeitdoes{n}^{\prime }twork,yougo,oh,well,youknow,wha{t}^{\prime }sthisotherexcuseoverhere?Andi{t}^{\prime }slike,justno,justadmitthatyo{u}^{\prime }rewrong,thatyourmodelsuckedandgetabettermodel.IactuallythoughtyouweregonnasaysortofDonaldTrump,CharlesDarwinforsomereason.Iwaslike,oh,no,thatworkstoo.Okay.Hecomesalongthischarismaticscientistwiththiscrazytheory.Yo{u}^{\prime }restuckinareligiousframe,myfriend.AndIwasinthemiddle.Iknow,Ijustwantedtobemischievous.Butyeah.SomebodyneedstomakeamemeofthatandjustsayCharlesTrump.CharlesTrump.Yeah,Ido{n}^{\prime }tknow.Imean,hisvideothatcameoutthisweekofhimatMcDonal{d}^{\prime }swasgold.Likeitwasfunnyand-Likehecouldbepointingatamonkey,youknow,andtellingiti{t}^{\prime }sbadandi{t}^{\prime }dbeCharlesTrump.Ido{n}^{\prime }tknow,i{t}^{\prime }srandomenoughtowork.W{e}^{\prime }llhitthealgorithmorsomething.Somebodyneedstomakeathumbnailofthat.Imean,youcanmakealotofmoneyonmemes.Thinkingaboutitrightnow.Youcan.Tha{t}^{\prime }sit.I^{\prime }vebeenthinkingaboutthisthingismemeslately.Yeah.W{e}^{\prime }vebeendoingsomeemergencememes.Yeah,andoneofthethingsIwasthinkingoftoo-Memesareabitofathreat.Memesareanotherfascinatingsymptom.IwanttotalktoVanderKlaanabout,youknow,givemethedescriptiveversionofaseanceandthengivemethedescriptiveversionofJohnVerbek{e}^{\prime }spractices.Andthentellmewhatthedifferenceis.Causethedifferencedoes{n}^{\prime }texist.Well,soher{e}^{\prime }sthefunnypart.Her{e}^{\prime }sthefunnypart.SoVerbekehadthisphasewherehewastalkingaboutphilosophicalfellowship,whichis,Iforgettheguywhocameupwiththephilosophicalfellowship,right?Soi{t}^{\prime }snotJoh{n}^{\prime }spracticeoranything,right?Buthewaspushingthispractice.Huh?Circlingguy?No,no,no,no,i{t}^{\prime }snotcircling.No,no,Ihadthebook,butitwassuchaterriblebook.Iactuallygotridofit.Ithoughtaboutburning.Itwasterrible.I{t}^{\prime }sransomethingorsomethingran.Iforget.Anyway,sothewaytheydidacoupleofthoseonvideoandyoucanwatchthevideos.The{y}^{\prime }reonJoh{n}^{\prime }schannelsomewhere.Ithinkunlessyoutookthemdown,hemigh{t}^{\prime }vetakenthemdown.Andinthevideos,twoofthewomenwhowereinvolved,bothofwhomIknowbytheway,said,oh,thisfeelslikeaseance.AndIwasjustlike,andJoh{n}^{\prime }slike,well,Ido{n}^{\prime }twannausethatword,buthisdescriptionofthispracticeanditevenisLectioDivinapracticeisverymuchwhereyougettoknowtheauthorandthenthespiritoftheauthoremergeswithyouorinthegroup.Yeah,tha{t}^{\prime }showwetalkaboutit.Andi{t}^{\prime }slike,okay,itremindsmeofthose1920speoplelikedoingseancesandmansions,likeforthescientificthrillofit.YouknowwhatImean?Yougottoknowwhatitis.Ohdude,Igotagreatbookfromthe1920s,1917.Letmebringittoyou.IgotitfrommydayswhenIworkedinanoldancient,well,antiquebookstoreandwewouldsellbooksforlike$100. Anyway, this is one of, I’ll be right back. I gotta get this book and show you. Yeah, go get it. I had a question about AI emergence too. AI is using these language models. Language models are putting words together in a certain pattern, AKA they’re making spells. Yes. And they’re also emergent models, right? They take people’s sentences, reconstruct them and feed them back to you, which is the same thing the Gnostics did is they took different patterns, different spells, different ideologies, remix them, put their own little chili or spice or icing on them and then hoped that you would believe in the spell, you believe in the magic of what they’re all posing. No, no, Jesse, you gotta be real careful with that. Okay, okay, okay. I am telling you from personal experience, it’s not hope and belief. You do that stuff, things are gonna happen. And you are gonna believe that you are in control of those things and you will have some influence over those things. But if you keep that up, those things are gonna eat you. All right, what do we got? What do we got? Okay, can you see it? Hold on, hold on, hold on, I’m gonna make you huge. Not quite. Oh, other mind. Okay, other mind. All right, I’m gonna open it up to the beginning. So you can see it. This is definitely esoteric, isn’t it? Oh yeah. Wonderful, I love the font. Operations of the other mind. Something about the universe. Oh yeah, their control over human life, I love it. Okay. Edmund Shaftesbury, I don’t even think I’ve heard of him. Doesn’t have drawings. Yes. It has drawings in it. Other mind. Yes, I love our story times. The more we do story time, the more I love this channel. This doesn’t have drawings, but I have another book that does. But it does, this is one of the chapters. The 10th cycle. Gosh. Prevention of hypnotism, there we go. Yeah, yeah, that’s great. Well, that’s what it is. It’s what we’re just talking about. Yeah, yeah. Enchantment. Yeah, hypnotism is a form of enchantment. There’s lots of forms of enchantment. Hypnotism is one. Maybe I should do a video on forms of enchantment. Man, I got lots of, this is not good. I haven’t been doing any videos lately, so adding to the list is not helpful. But. One thing I do wanna do for you is, when I do finally learn video editing, is to get all your live stream monologues and clip them up for you and send them back to you. That would be great. That won’t take too long. Let’s literally put it down. Second cycle, thought transference. Yes, these are familiar patterns for me. That sounds like science. These are cult patterns. Let me see when it was written. 1928. Yes, yes. Well, see, and the interesting thing is, if you actually study real history, which nobody does, I get that. If you go to the libraries and you look up the old books and the old magazines and periodicals, this is the soup into which emerge Hitler and Stalin. This is the soup from Aleister Crowley. Theosophy. 14th cycle, the fault of the mind. Theosophy, technically speaking. Yes, yes. Well, and I think this is the problem. When you’re looking horizontally across the world, your Gnosticism is there and you don’t have another choice. Tribalism is there and you don’t have another choice. You are not going to get out of the Gnosticism so long as you are trapped in a flat world where you’re vying for power. Yeah, there we go. I love it. Well, the flat world theory is another Gnostic theory, and that was really big on the internet for a while. Some meme trending, wasn’t it? The green really adds to the mystique. Yeah, CW, you’re right. Yeah. You know, I love working on that bookstore. That was probably my favorite job. It didn’t pay as much as I’m getting paid now, but it was a wonderful job because I always got to talk to these interesting, strange people that wanted books like this, and they would have these interesting stories, and then I’m proud of it. I had a bunch of books like that, but they all got taken from me, not that anybody cares. So just saying, all my books, all my books, all my books, they’re all gone. All stolen. Is this the cross that you’re talking about? All stolen. All stolen. All stolen. All stolen. We have a book that has pictures that’s really weird, weird magic shit. Can we get it? One Sense Telepathy, the 12th cycle. I love it. Yeah, get the one with the weird pictures, man. Okay, I’ll get the weird thing. Yeah, we like weird pictures. I did a video not too long ago with Manuel on Gnosticism, right? It’s got a cool thumbnail, and we had a blast doing that video. That was an interesting, fun Gnosticism video on navigating patterns, so everybody should check that out. Check it out. Yeah, no, I’d love to get more clips going, especially if there are clips of my monologues and stuff, if my monologues are decent, I don’t even know. Nobody gives me any- I don’t think it actually matters if they’re decent. Someone will find value in them, and that’s the important bit. Well, that- I’m being truthful. I’m actually being truthful. No, no, that’s the fact. If it’s something people can find value in, then they’re definitely decent. Here we go. What do we got? All right, so- With a Metallica teaser, too? Yeah, with a Metallica teaser. Yeah, which Metallica t-shirt do you have on, sir? Because this is- Oh. Oh, that’s one of the old Creeping Death ones. Yeah. Okay. Not that I know about Metallica or anything. Oops. Out is my knowledge of it, my encyclopedia knowledge of Metallica. What do we got? A Rippa? What is that? Heptameron of a Rippa. Okay. So, I’m being truthful. That’s pretty old. Now, this book is not that old. This is a copy of the book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, of course. Well, I had a copy of the Magus back in the day, which is an interesting- I have that. I brought that, too. Yeah. Oh, the Magus is great. You can show all the Kabbalistic images in the instance of Pula Kabbala. Yeah. It’s got other stuff, too, but it’s full of Kabbalah. Oh, there we go. Yeah. I love it. I love it. Yeah, they always tie it to geometry. They’re like hard on the Pythagoras, which is why- The Plato was not acknowledged. Yeah, see, Plato is such a breakthrough because he gets you out of the Pythagorean geometric trap of Gnosticism. Yeah. And people don’t understand that. And it’s hard to understand to some extent. Here is the Anocean language, the language of the angels and the angels’ names. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. Of course we know them all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anocean, Enochian, however you want to fucking- Yeah, the Enochian language. What were you saying earlier, Jesse? I didn’t hear you. I said, of course we know all the angels’ names. Of course. We’ve written them down in the book, so we just know them now. That’s funny. It’s ridiculous. Yeah, the whole thing is silly. Sure, yeah, okay, cool. If you’re definitely convinced- It’s also been valid. I mean, I like the way James Lindsay talks about it in Negation of the Real, or Negation of Reality, one of the two. It was a great video. Because he talks, it’s like, yeah, this stuff, they always refer to some past thing, and they get into the, you know, in the 1700s we rediscovered something, and that’s cool too. Yeah, they’ve always got these circles and overlapping, you know, arcs and all this weird stuff. Playing with little symbols. But they’re stuck in Pythagoras. They’re just stuck in the mathematical sort of mapping, and that leads to Gnosticism, because it builds a closed world, because geometry is a closed world, because you want perfect symmetry, and then it’s Gödel’s theorem all the way down, right? It can either be consistent, or it can be complete. It can’t be both. Gödel would be a good turtle name. Well, that’s what I did to VanderKlaan one day. I don’t think it was recorded. I think it was on the, we were on the Discord one day, and I said, Paul, the confusion, the whole confusion in this whole world is basically people think it’s turtles all the way down, but in fact, it’s girdles all the way down. And I knew VanderKlaan would get it. And he near on fell on the floor when I said that to him, so he got it right away. But yeah, a lot of people don’t understand. I mean, I mean that, seriously. It’s not turtles all the way down. It’s girdles all the way down. It’s girdles incomplete. Who invented phrase turtle all the way down? Where did that come from? I don’t remember off the top of my head. Here’s a little Jewish mysticism. Here we go. Yeah, Kabbalah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Do you sleep with these books? Or are they like hidden in the library somewhere? They’re hidden in the library. Yeah, I sleep with the books. Oh god, no. People do, man. They sleep with them. You know, they surround themselves in these. I just think it’s good to know stuff, but not do it. Yeah. I want to know that there’s like a snake out there that can bite me called a copperhead or a rattlesnake. I just want to know what’s in the dark. Detecting the ponds. Navigating ponds. Navigating ponds. Here’s some Norse stuff here. Oh, there we go. Local. Yeah. Oh, yes, Jesuits. The International VEGA. Of occult sciences. Yes, yes, occult sciences. Very familiar. Anyway. Yes, the crazy Jesuits who talked about the turtles all the way down. The International VEGA in like mid 1500s. I got this one. John D. Oh, there we go. Peterson? Joseph Peterson? Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Is there a connection? I don’t know. We should find out. Peterson’s a Gnostic too, the Jordan guy. So there you go. Oh, yeah. I remember this weird little spell. And every time I see it, it freaks me out. There it is. Why, do you want to freak out my audience again? I do. Oh, that’s wild. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, I don’t want to freak you out. It looks like some sort of Unitopian art from the 1900s. It looks like a Sith holocron. Like some evil shit. You know, just like damn, I don’t want to fucking touch that. Do we have any Stargate fans in the room? Yeah, no. I mean, look, you’ve got to be careful with this stuff. You don’t want to engage with it because things can happen. I mean, I was on this, there’s a Discord that I’m part of. I don’t even know how I got invited to it. Interesting. They’re all kids, right? They’re all like in their early 20s or whatever. They were talking about some of the stuff they saw as a result of their engagement with what I would call sort of Gnostic, you know, Gnostic magical practice or something. And wow, those were some scary stories. And they were like, no, this is no joke, man. We went into the woods, the four of us, and blah, blah, blah. I was like, what the hell? And the funny part is even with the bad experiences, they’re like, yeah, I’m still trying. It’s like, that wasn’t enough of a message to you? It’s like, really? And it wasn’t. They’re so stuck in the fantasy of forbidden knowledge and that that knowledge, which is power, knowledge is power, right? It’s this whole postmodern bullshit. I have a video on that, by the way. Knowledge is not power, hint. They’re just so enamored with it that they’re risking insanity, literal insanity, to trying escape in the Rousseauian fashion, the whole constraint of their body. It’s all denial of creation. You were born into a creation at a point in time under a certain set of circumstances. And you owe whatever you have around you, no matter how little or how much it is, to a bunch of people that you’re never going to meet because they were dead before you were born. It just is what it is. And you need to submit to that fact because it already happened to you. And people, you know, even Peterson, I would argue, he doesn’t have that sense, which is too bad, which is too bad. You know what? His message for sure. All of that stuff, you know, and I think you guys have heard my plateau argument or my plateau like like the Greeks and their paradoxes were used to demonstrate that humanity is a place of consciousness and the paradoxes are the abyss, the cliff side. And it’s kind of navigational points for human philosophy where we we can’t go any further. Now we just follow the plate. I think a lot of this stuff, you know, the Gnostic stuff is, as I said, the attempt to scaffold out or to build an airship and travel out into the abyss in these weird floating islands of archaic knowledge and bring it back. The trouble with that is every time you try to bring something back, you can’t really apply it to reality. And all the stuff you learn out there is only applicable to people want to build their own airship and go out there and find out that they’ve got to come back to the plateau anyway. So can you apply that knowledge to the plateau of consciousness where we are on solid ground? We’re not in paradoxes all the time and having to take 15 years to really be a good religious or whatever, you know, getting to the cheese pizza of the matter, you know, the simplicity of it. So what is the point of going outside the plateau? What can we explore? Should we start digging into the plateau? Is that a bad idea? Let’s not do that. We should know what’s on the surface of the plateau. Right. We can live on the plateau. Our feet are made to walk on the plateau. We can breathe the air here in the plateau. The sun is up there. The ground is down there. And then there’s water and air in between and birds and trees. Well, that’s well said, Naram. Yeah, that’s well said. Yeah, I agree. And I think that’s the problem is that people, you know, look, the problem with knowledge in general or even just information or truth or true even right. The problem with all of that is lots of things are informed. Lots of things are, you know, constitute knowledge. Lots of things constitute truth and lots of things constitute true. You can be true to Satan. That’s not good, though. You can. The truth of the matter is that elections get stolen all the time in countries, even large countries, even large countries with otherwise really good elections. Like these things happen. The problem is that the fact that something is true or the fact that you have knowledge doesn’t point necessarily point to the good. It doesn’t. It doesn’t let you embody cooperation in the world. Even if it’s intersubjectively true and most true things aren’t like if I fall in love with somebody, that’s true to me. Is it true to them? Is it true to you? Like, I don’t know. But I don’t. At a certain point, it’s not because if people don’t know me. You know, so truth doesn’t solve a problem. Knowledge doesn’t solve a problem. Information doesn’t solve a problem. Being true doesn’t solve a problem. If I’m true to the spirit of justice, that doesn’t necessarily solve a problem. You know, I mean, you can be you can care about things. We could be said that is a prerequisite to solve a problem. Well, I don’t think it is necessarily right because a lot of solving a problem is not knowing about it. You know, like, I don’t need to know what you’re hurting about to know that you’re hurting and to care for you or comfort you. It’s not required. It’s just not required. I’m not saying it’s not good. I’m not saying don’t do it. I’m saying it’s not required. But you can just sit with somebody in silence. So what is this, you know, call to empathy, for example, right? Like I have a big war against empathy because I think empathy is evil. Basically, I think the whole concept is evil. You cannot empathize with people. That isn’t true. And there’s only one exception to that. And that is mother to child. Like women are designed to empathize in general. And you can only empathize with something lesser than yourself like a child can’t empathize with something as complex as yourself. That’s absurd because they’re a different person. Right. So why is that important to people? Because they’re using knowledge to solve a problem. Like, oh, if I had knowledge of you in that way, in that emotional way, that would give me empathy. We would be connected. We’d be intimate. And that would solve some kind of a problem. I’m here to tell you that’s not true. That doesn’t work. Even if it’s possible, it doesn’t work. Because when I’m depressed, I don’t want you to empathize with my depression. What I want you to do is sympathize with my depression and say, oh, I understand that you’re depressed and that’s bad. I’m sitting in a hole. I don’t want you jumping in that hole. I want you giving me a hand out of that hole. But the whole empathy thing is based on knowledge is good and knowledge is power. And it’s like, you don’t need to know my depression to help me not be depressed. You may not be able to help me not be depressed. That’s different. But the fact that you know why I’m depressed and how I’m depressed is not going to make you better able to make me undepressed. That’s not going to happen. I’m sorry. It’s just not necessary. Yeah. Some people, when you get sad, will get sad too. And yeah, that doesn’t…then you’re both sad. You’re both in the hole. Yeah. People leave psychologists that are depressed themselves. I think that’s why I think people don’t do psychology sometimes. Because they’re worried that the person on the other end may be just as messed up as they are. And so whatever wisdom, guidance, counseling they’re given is like, does it actually come from a true place, not a place of truth? Yeah. I wanted to bring the idea of compassion. You want to get therapy from somebody that got themselves out of the hole, not that they’re still in the hole. Right. Street knowledge versus book knowledge. I wanted to bring in the idea of compassion too. Because compassion is not based… It is based on a type of knowledge, but it’s an embodied knowledge. It’s based upon patterns and experience. It’s not purely bottom up or top down. It is middle out in a little bit, but maybe I’m stretching the paragraph too much. Yeah. Okay. So where does compassion fit into this empathy, sympathy, compassion? Well, look, I mean, I have a problem with compassion too, right? Because compassion is one of these, oh, it’s going to save the world. If I ask for compassion, that is an error. It’s already bad. It’s automatically corrupted. It’s automatically corrupted. So why are people asking for compassion or compassion as a solution? Because the problem they’re trying to solve, which is the same problem they’re trying to solve with empathy, is intimacy. Trying to solve an intimacy problem. They’re saying, we’re all spread out. If only we were more intimate, everything would be… Tony Robbins. That’s true. That’s actually true. That is correct. The problem is, how do we be intimate? We be intimate by looking up at the emanation and orienting towards the emanation with others and submitting to that process and the messiness of it. Because I’m going to walk towards it and Rebel Mountain near him is going to walk towards it and we’re going to bump into each other because he’s from the Rebel Mountains and we need to be able to resolve that. But again, I know, I know I can drive up to West Virginia right now. Right now. It takes a little while, but I could. And I can go with Neeram to his bar and everything would go great. And I would be welcoming and people would be curious, right? And we’d share a cheese pizza and egg menis. Right? So I know that. I know that. I also know that we have deep disagreements about things, but it’s fine. It’s fine. Everything’s fine between us. You know, and I tease him and he teases me back and it’s all good. Like it’s not a problem. We don’t need to agree that much. We can just agree that Neeram’s awesome and he’s a wonderful human being and he’s kind thoughtful and he’s a good leader. And he doesn’t, you know, and I meant to say this earlier, Neeram, so I apologize. I didn’t say it when it occurred to me. But look, the stuff you did, organizing people around town hall, around your protest, which was an excellent protest, was good work. And I really appreciate that you did that. It doesn’t affect me. You’re in West Virginia, but it does affect me because you’re embodying the good and the more people embody the good in the world, the better off we all are. And this is why we need to struggle towards the good. This whole like emergence and God’s going to make the good emerge thing is a bunch of garbage. It’s not sufficient. You got to take responsibility. You stand between heaven and earth, between the material and the ethereal. And God calls you to help him out and knit these things together into reality. And if you’re not being responsible about it, the people who will be responsible about it will all be Hitler. I promise you that. That’s one thing I know. I will state that over and over unequivocally. They will be the live in a pod, eat the bugs, own nothing and be happy people, right? And the W.E.F. And that’s why I’m of two minds about Peterson battling them back, because on the one hand, I don’t want to legitimize them. On the other hand, someone’s got to fight back. And that’s the problem. And I think just before I go, Anselman, there’s been a theological error that wants God to be as vulnerable to suffering as we are, as if that’s all right. And I like that comment. I think that’s really, Anselman’s always really insightful. So, yeah, and this is this is why I prefer Anselman over Jacob or Nate Heil, by the way, just in case we’re keeping score. Yeah, I remember a scene in the Viking television show when they invaded England and they invaded that monastery and everybody was really freaked out that they worshiped a dead God. And one of the Viking characters took his axe and chopped the crucifix in half. He’s like, what’s the dead God going to do? This is ridiculous. I don’t understand. And what’s funny is that guy that did that eventually became a Christian. It was the Rollo character. He eventually became the father of the Normans of Normandy, which was French for the Northmen. That’s the problem, right? Is that the Christians go, yeah, but it all worked out in the end. And therefore, we’re just going to sit back and remain hidden received from the culture and wait for God to fix it all. And it’s like, we’re not meant to receive from the culture. Another interesting theme in that show was between Ragnar and Athelstan. The first four seasons are gold. Oh, yeah. Once he dies, it’s sure he’s over. Athelstan, yeah. Well, what happened was he died and he buried him at a waterfall and he was crying and he said, you know, I don’t know, my friend, if our gods are going to let us see each other again and have a drink. Can Valhalla and Heaven build a bridge? And can we be friends after we’re dead? It bothered this guy so much. And I thought that was a very heavy drive for that character. Well, that’s good, right? That’s people looking up. That’s people looking up and going, you know what, we want intimacy in aid, the thing that comes after, right? So it’s a long timeframe and not short emergence is a good timeframe. It’s this long timeframe. And also they’re looking at a place they can be together. And that’s what you have to do. That’s why emergence is not the way to go because it doesn’t, it won’t get you together for any length of time. And it’s too easily strayed into evil. To use a music metaphor, if you have too many melodies in one song, it’s hard to distinguish what’s the main melody. The same thing with you have too many harmonies. It’s hard to pick out what is the most important. You have to have a good balance or a good structure or a good T-loss to the song that builds up. Okay, melody, counter melody, second melody, change of harmony, and all these things have to be in a sequence, in synthesis together, essentially. And that’s what I think Christianity did up until maybe the medieval period. My argument is always going to be up until the 18th century because I’m a romantic in some ways. Anyway, it’s my disagreement. We can fight over it. We will. Okay, of course I’m wrong. This is the thing. The thing you’re saying about music is… I think Christianity was good up until a certain point and then after that certain point, everything starts corrupting because that was the decline of the last era of the Christian age. When they stopped eating all the mushrooms, they should have kept that part. No, no. I’m like, Anthony says he’s too shy for an appearance. He’s never done it before. You get a crazy astray and you get a crazy South Carolina and a pirate. What’s to fear? Here’s a disruptor for us. Hey guys! Hey, good to see you Elizabeth. Hey, your lighting looks great Elizabeth. Oh, my lighting? What do you mean? Yeah, it looks like you’re in a studio. Yeah. Oh, I have a microphone somewhere. Maybe I should use it. No, you sound great. Don’t be like Jesse. He sets up a new microphone. I know. Look how cool he is. He’s like, like, shroomy with his lighting and now we’ve got Jesse. It’s going to get better. I’ve always had these lights before I got on the internet with my face, you know, talking on the internet. I love green light. You know, when I learned in like middle school or high school, somewhere in between, I learned that green is the best for human eyesight. You can really pick up on things very easily. Blue light slowly makes you go color blind. But green is one of the safer colors. Red is the safest, but you can’t see. So green, I felt, is in the middle of red and blue. And I’m like, green. I’m green. Like the Wizard of Oz. The Wizard of Oz, right? That’s it. I have light filters for my little lights up here. Maybe I should. Yeah. Come on. Totally do it. Absolutely. Hey, Mark, how come you didn’t get more conversation going with your emergence thing? I thought it was brilliant. And you know why. We’ve been talking about emergence the entire time. He’s like, CW is all excited. Elizabeth, look at this. And then he’s like, she was the thunder in Thunder Bay. Wow. I know. I caused so much trouble. You have no idea. I was calling. I missed all this. I was just doing what I do and I just caused a lot of trouble. It was great. With who? Tell us. Oh, hit her with her and everywhere. Because I just say what I think, you know? You know, and you know what’s going on about something and now it is wrong. And I had, you know, I just had to say what I thought. And people were shocked. Did you see his video? People could not bear it. They thought I was rude. Imagine me being rude. I thought it was rude. No, it’s not rude to speak your mind. You’re not his fan club because he has that crazy fan club around him the whole time. I was like, man, I’d like to talk to this guy, but he’s got this crazy fan club. Who’s that? Yeah. Peugeot. Yeah. I can’t hang out with people that don’t want to just like chill like it’s a campfire. If it’s like… Well, Elizabeth, did you see his video on the end of desacralization in art? Because I found that fascinating. Yeah, I did actually. I thought it was interesting. I like Jonathan, as you know, right? I agree with it, though. I don’t think I agree with it. But it’s interesting. I’m not so sure either, but it’s really interesting. It was quite thought provoking. I’m just too attached to your Western art. Well, yeah, you are. No. No. Are you Greek now? Are you claiming some Russian? What’s going on? No, I’m just… I’m just quoting you guys. I’m entirely attached to Western art. It’s isn’t an odd maiden singlet. Right, right, yeah. Is that what those are called? We call them muscle shirts. You call them singlets on the other side of your quay? Well, whatever. They’re dorky, that’s what they are. Oh, they’re totally cool. No, they’re not. They’re totally cool. I guess this was fun. You know, Aussie? You know, Aussie’s wear wife beater all the time. Aussie’s wear wife beater constantly. Yeah, yeah. I saw this guy the other day. He was like, he was chasing this guy down the street. He was on TV because he was chasing the guy down the street. He wasn’t dressed. He had a wife beater on in his underwear and he was chasing some guy down the street. Cool. We need more of that, Mark. We need some disruption. We’re never going to get people out of this emergency. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. Mark, just a little bit, please. We’ve got a little bit. We’ve got Jacob and Nathie Hile and everyone’s pissed off. I know what’s going on. I want to know what the story… I find your characters are all so fascinating. Yeah, we have a lot of them. This is the podcast. I want to hear. Come on, let it go. Just speak the truth. Nathie Hile is the spirit of anarchy. He says I’m a Christian anarchist, which is an impossible situation. I’ve talked about it before. I pointed it out to him. I said, all right, render under Caesar. He had some translation excuse. I said, all right, how do you account for Jesus submitting to Rome physically? There’s no translation there, buddy. And he didn’t have an answer. And I’m like, OK, the reason why you don’t have an answer is quite simple. You’re wrong. You’re right on that, Mark. You’re totally right on that one. These people, they want to be right so much. And it’s like, well, that’s fantastic. If you’re right, if you’re not right, it doesn’t work. OK? When somebody stumps you with an easy question, you should figure it out real quick. If somebody says, what about this? You can’t answer it. I’m sorry, but the person that needs the mirror is you. You can’t be upset at the other person. You can’t go on and say, well, it’s a theological argument. That’s why when Jesus says render under Caesar… I think he submitted to it because he didn’t build it. It’s like our free will expressed. Exactly. I never really thought about it that way, but that was his argument when he said, give Caesar his Caesars. Give him his own money. If you don’t like it, leave. He doesn’t say that, but that’s what I… If you want to go into theology, too, you’ve got to say, God, the God of the Bible did not want kingship, essentially. The whole kingship debate, and that’s what Jesus is doing, is reversing the pattern of the line of David. It’s left up to the people, which is fine. But look, you can’t sit there… Look, you’re claiming to be an anarchist. Historically, anarchists kill people. That’s what they do. You bring in the anarchists to start the revolution. Historically, that pattern has never not played out that way ever. So if you want to identify as an anarchist, that’s fine. But you’re not a good person. Sorry, you’re just not a good person. There’s no way to be a good person and be an anarchist. That’s why they bombed people. They bombed people worldwide. The most killings ever in this country were done by anarchists. And they played this stupid game, along with some of these other people who claim this Christian anarchy bullshit. They played this stupid game, where they say, I’m an anarchist, and they describe being a pacifist. And I’m like, no, anarchists are not pacifists. That’s not what anarchists are. There’s nothing in anarchy that talks about pacifism. Maybe they meant pacifiers. Maybe that’s what they meant. And look, you can make the pacifism argument all day long, but the Bible is pretty clear about that too. You’re still not a Christian if you’re a pacifist. Sorry. And it’s just these people’s way of getting around the problem, of having to do something. I like the spelling in the little letters better, that pronunciation. That’s good. Without a chief ruler. It might as well be anti-Christ. Right. But the actual definition is interesting too, right? Because it’s Jew all authority, not earthly authority. This is the bigger reason why you can’t be a Christian anarchist. Because you won’t submit to God if you’re an anarchist. Anarchists don’t believe in structure and hierarchy. They don’t. That’s the thing they’re against. So they are all, by design, godless. Every single one of them. And the funny part is, Nate doesn’t know any anarchists. I do. I’ve talked to many of them. A few of them I converted by convincing them that if anarchy were the way, I would rule the world. And when they realized my argument was technically correct, I’m not joking, it took four and a half hours for one guy. He hasn’t been an anarchist since he realized, oh no, you’re right, you would be in charge. I’m like, oh yeah, you’re damn right I would. I’d get all y’all behind me and you’d be screwed. Because I’d do what I wanted. I’d be like, oh, the rule is you can do what you want. Well, I’m going to do what I want. But the problem is, I can gather people together, and then I get my will. And it’s carried out by others. It’s a very dangerous thing. You don’t want to go down that road. And that’s the problem, is that they don’t understand that. Like, anarchy is not a good situation. Because you don’t believe in hierarchy, but hierarchy is inevitable, to Peterson’s point. Yeah, it’ll happen. Get around it, it’ll happen. This is why democracy and tyranny are two sides of the same coin. When you flatten everything and give everyone equal authority, a tyrant’s going to come in and take advantage of it. Right, well, and that is my objection. So, Nate did trots across the bow to me, and said I was anti-truth or something, basically implied that. And that just kicked me off. And now I’m like, oh, you’re done. You’re done. You’re now an enemy, and that’s the end of that. And I basically told him, I said, gloves are off. I like what Chris says here. So this is from Chris. Pet cow. Nate is a Marxist disguised as an anarchist and a Buddhist disguised as a Christian. I can confirm that. So it’s true, though? You talk about me a lot. Wow. The whole thing is, he went after him on his stream today. I didn’t see it. He went after him on Twitter, and I dogpiled on that. I’m like, yes, absolutely. So, yeah, if I have to pick the lesser of two evils, it’s definitely Jacob. What’s kind of like saying it’s kind of like saying you’re for equality, but you actually want equity. It’s kind of, yeah, it’s a… Well, and the equality dodging is dangerous. However, I have to point out, like, I don’t appreciate this. Here’s Chris Wood. If you choose not to have a government, one will be chosen for you. This sounds like you’re ripping me off, man. I mean, I’m just saying. You ripped me up with that originally. I was the one that put that in your head. We just are all having this money. Great minds, thank a lot, but fools rarely get it. Can you take it from Peterson? Ethan’s trying to take credit for my religion coming. No, we tied it to the Miranda rights. When you get arrested, you have a right to an attorney. If you can’t afford it, then we’ll be provided to you. It was tied to the Miranda rights. Yes, it is. But you know, Mark, you made a really strong statement about emergence correlating it with evil, abundant evil, and I thought that was such a brilliant point because we tend to see evil like the spirits, the egregores, right? Like something up here, sort of, and I love the fact that the evil can come from the emergence, but the way you said it so clearly and strongly, I think that was brilliant. I’ve never thought about it quite like that. I always think of it more in a… I hate to use the word spiritual, but that’s what I’m thinking, right? And I think it’s so… I think what you said is on the mark. Because if you don’t… If you’re just coming from the bottom, like, whoa, there’s… There is a lot of evil in the world. There’s a lot of evil in the world. There’s… It’ll work for a while, what you said. It’ll work for a while. It can work for a long while, and then you’re in the hands of… Yeah, you’re in the hands of chance, right? You’re alive in emergence. You’re constrained by things you can’t see. Because you can only see… Like emergence… You think of emergence as you’re on a flat plane and then something’s not flat anymore. It’s like, well, that’s fine. The thing you’re missing is you don’t see what’s driving that flat plane. So even though you see an emergence and now you know there’s a landscape, we’ll say, right, you know there’s a bump or whatever, you still can’t see what’s driving that bump. And what that means is that if you get the thing in your head, like, well, I did this, no, you didn’t. No, you didn’t. And that’s a problem. That’s a big, big problem. Because that thing can manifest something without you understanding it. I mean, this is why mob rule is a thing. Yeah. Kim Poole talks about this. He’s in Occupy Wall Street. They’re walking, they’re marching through the streets and the leaders have a plan of where to march. And then there’s a photographer, just a regular, like, news guy taking news footage, gets off to the side and the group starts following the photographer. Just… Emergently. It happens emergently. There’s your emergence. And there’s this big, big, big, big, big crisis. And that’s a big problem. But there’s a lot of people that are just trying to get everybody in. Waving them on and trying to corral them. And they can’t do it. And Tim talks about that. You think you built this crowd. You think you made this. You think you control this. You think you influence this. But you don’t. Because you didn’t see what was underneath the surface. And that’s why when groups get together, is a positive statement of testimony of your experience. In other words, you’re speaking your positive, and it doesn’t necessarily have to be positive, but you’re speaking your experience, your participation to others. You’re saying, this was what happened to me. Right. Because the other is all the mirror neurons gone berserk, right? So you get anybody together and you’re constantly reflecting each other. It’s that basic understanding of how an exemplar works. And they’re just mirroring each other. So one goes off and they’re just all mirroring. So there’s no, it’s totally out of control. It always happens. You don’t know when it’s going to happen and when it’s not going to happen. So sometimes you’re a bad apple in the barrel and it doesn’t matter. And sometimes you get a bad apple and it does matter. Anselman, have a great night. I’m glad you found it enjoyable. That’s actually really encouraging. I never know how well these things are going. So I think the part of the problem too, though Elizabeth, that you sort of alluded to in my mind is that when you have a group and it’s being driven from below, from this emergence, it’s so hard to tell what your role was with it. That you’re not aware of what’s going on underneath that surface and you’re not paying attention to it because you can’t because it’s beneath what you see. And then when you get the idea that look, it’s moving towards the good, it’s doing what I want, it’s doing the good thing. And then you’re not paying attention to how big it is, whether or not it’s fractioning, whether or not that fraction will matter. So we have a pretty tight group. And I’ve gotten criticized by Grim Grizz, for example, where you threw somebody out. I threw them out because they were going to drive a wedge between my teeth. I’m here to protect my community. You guys are all part of my community. A bunch of other people are too. Hopefully everybody watching is to some extent. I’m not going to let that bad apple destroy what we built. Right. And I’m not saying I built it. I didn’t build it. I didn’t build it. Did I facilitate it? Yeah, I’ve done a lot of facilitation. You know who else did facilitation? Ethan, you know else did facilitation? My buddy, Michelle. You know else did facilitation? Sally Jo. Like there’s a bunch of people that facilitation. Why are we here on Friday evenings at 7 p.m. Eastern? Because of Jesse. It wasn’t my choice. Jesse was like, man, I wish you could jib in and win your streams. And I’m like, yeah, let’s make that happen. This is not some sort of bizarre journey, right? It’s a community that’s moving in a direction. But I’ll tell you, if Jesse starts to go off the rails or boomy shroomy here, just, you know, embraces the full rebel mountains, bang, they’re going to get hit with something, right? I can’t punish Ethan, apparently, with magical powers. But, you know, I’m already off the rails. I’m off the rails enough to be here. Yeah, you are. You need to be off the rails just enough to be here. But keeping that spirit intact, it’s not just my job. It’s not just my responsibility, right? It’s responsibility to the whole community. And part of that is about feedback. Like if somebody said, like, look, man, what you did with David was not cool. We need to let him back on the stream or whatever. Then I’d have to think about that. Right? And like I said, Ethan could even override me on that. And there’s nothing wrong with that. It doesn’t speak to this tyranny, right? And I think really, part of the problem is these people are three years old. They’re just mentally, they’re using models that a standard three year old child would use to model the world. And then they’re confused when the world doesn’t work out. And then they cry, expecting mommy to come and help them. And then when mommy doesn’t come and help them, they scream, there’s no intimacy in the world. You all need more compassion and empathy. I want compassion. I want empathy. It’s like, nice. I want a pony. It’s disappointment all around, kid. Like get used to disappointment. You want this. I want that. No one’s getting what they want. Instead, let’s cooperate towards a higher good, towards something up above that we can put our eyes up to and submit to, to get along. Because you have to submit to something bigger than you and bigger than the other person in order to get along. That’s what a relationship is. Whether it’s a community relationship or a personal relationship with somebody you’re closer to, or it’s a family relationship, that’s what it is. It’s Archie. What do you mean, Ethan? It’s Archie, not Antarchy. It’s Archie. Archie. I mean, we usually say hierarchy, but I mean, it’s just… Yeah. This is just Archie. What’s Archie mean? Oh, does it mean structure? It means structure or it means… A bridge? I don’t know. A bridge? Yeah, architecture. Just Archie, though. Oh, right. Architecture. Hey, that’s… This is Archie. If you think of the word arch, they all have similar origins, the words. Wow. This is the artichoke pizza argument now. It’s from Archie. Or artichoke chicken. And it means to rule. That came out random. What’s it mean, Mark? That was funny. How about the archo covenant? It’s archia. In Latin, it’s archia, or it’s archie and to rule from the Greek. Okay. Which means what? It means to rule. To rule. How about the arch of the covenant? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. The thing that rules. Three things together. Mine says it’s a first principle, a first principle in early Greek philosophy. That’s kind of the same idea. Arch of the Covenant. Something that was in the beginning, origin, right? First principle in early Greek. Anyway, that’s interesting. Did anybody see Bishop Maximus with Dunderfus? Did anybody see Bishop Maximus with Dunderfus this week? Yes. He needs to keep talking to him. I don’t know if it’ll do anything. He needs to go after him more. He missed a bunch of stuff. Do you want to hear my notes, Elizabeth? I have them. I agree. He has a lot. Yeah, but it’s going to take time. I think that’s why I love these live streams. It doesn’t take any time. All he has to do is fix the mistakes. So Socrates, John says this, Socrates thinks the best way to live is dialectic into dialogos. And my comment is that is completely egoic and doesn’t mention others. And he’s forcing people into his frame. That’s literally what Maximus said. That’s literally what Maximus said why he didn’t want to be a neoplatonist. Word for word. Well, and again… So he didn’t have it all figured out. Well, look, he did three good things. That’s it. Three. One was he said, I know I know nothing. He denigrated knowledge. And this is the first thing John says after Socrates. He says, well, of course, Plato was kidding. No, John, Plato was right. Plato meant it. And I know he meant it. How do you know, Mark? What do you think you know? How could you possibly know it? Because he lived it out. His whole project, his whole cynical, skeptical project. Where does the hermeneutics of suspicion come from, John? From Socrates. That’s where it comes from, buddy. That’s the evil you keep pointing out. Socrates. Sorry. It’s the spirit of Socrates without the spirit of Jesus or something. That whole project is all about telling people you think you know this, but you don’t. And here are the questions to prove it. That’s his whole project. It’s destroying other people’s knowledge. So, yeah, he believed… I know, I know nothing. He believed knowledge did not have that much value in the world. That is definitely what he believed because he lived that out. But also he’s forcing people into his frame. I think arguing with people is okay. And then my note is Socrates is the Hegelian dialectic. It’s what he is. Because it’s in a dialectic, what you’re doing is you’re doing thesis and antithesis and dialogal and dialectic. And it’s not the same thing. It’s the same thing. It’s the same thing. So, it’s the same thing. It’s the same thing. It’s the same thing. And specifically that isn’t the same speech. What we hear is, if they say language and ground And that’s the so so but but questioning is good and the fact that he questioned is good I would argue any three-year-old can do that I literally make that argument all the time any three-year-old can do it so I could she did they do it all the time Why why? Whatever it’s fine. And then the third thing that soccer cheese did it was good, right? When he drank the damn hemlock he struck by his principles principles are important Those are the three things he did good. Everything else he did was not good He could have fought them and you know got struck down by sword He could have left he could have left that they wanted him to leave the city That’s all they care Athens is not gonna put you to death Athens put very few people to death The only time they put you to death was basically if they couldn’t get rid of you if you refuse to leave leave Athens They would get put you to death if you left Athens It was fine And then the other thing they talked about like John was saying well I want a group to act like soccer cheese, right? And I was like the group can act like soccer cheese If only you’d submit to the group rather than dead philosophers because that’s what John Breveke tells you to submit to his dead Philosophers and dead authors. That’s what he says He says it all the time in the practices and I’m like well and it’s all the same Because he wants to resurrect these guys They exiled people I kind of wish we would do that again that would be Here’s a boat you gotta go out on the ocean or you know here you gotta go live in the desert I don’t know in the woods. So there’s this a YouTube channel I forgot what it was called that this guy goes to third world countries and he just kind of just takes a camera and documents everything and yeah, we went to a slum in Nigeria and He basically tore the whole slum with the they had an elder and This was the elder son, you know, he’s probably like 25 years old or something like that and he just shows him the life you know, they actually live on top of a Ironically, I think it’s like an estuary. It’s like where the water. Yeah. Yeah. Have you seen it mark? No, no but I okay, so it’s like where the water where or It’s I can’t it’s what a river comes into goes into a bigger body of water and they kind of live on Stakes big poles that are stuck into the into the water and they build all their huts and stuff off of it. That’s cool yeah, and So The guy asked him. So what do you do? You guys have how do you police things? How do you maintain order? Do you not like how do you enforce the law? What do you do with people that are bad? He said what we do is we because everyone gets around on canoes, you know He says we take them we put them on the front of the canoe We take them through the whole city or the slum whatever they called whatever he called it and then we we exile They’re not allowed to come back And they don’t have any police I mean they don’t have police it’s just like when somebody commits a crime they report them to The authority it’s not a law enforcement authority. It’s just an authority The community they put them on the front of a canoe They don’t they don’t punish him. I mean they do punish him. That’s his punishment They don’t inflict any physical punishment or anything like that. I was around It’s jama side and job aside is effective like you’re losing your home And see that’s the other so my my other comment in 53 minutes in that video that John talked about he focuses on the symbol reaching down the deep calling to the deep and That’s all self referential solipsism. And this is where Bishop Maximus didn’t push back you know, he’s pulling things down from above and I looked up the deep calling the deep thing. That is not a positive thing in the Bible It’s not like it is framed very negatively and I think in the same way the other thing that’s very negative is this idea of estuary I’ve seen people that live on and near estuaries. What do you think the poorest parts of the self are? They’re all in the estuaries. You think New Orleans is a wealthy city No That’s literally the estuary guy. This is not a good thing There’s a struggle. There’s a fight. It’s hard to build roads and swamps You’re right. It’s hard to build anything in swamps. It’s hard to have anything in swamps And shit live there Sharks and You eat clams which are not wonderful, right? And you eat snails and you eat bullfrogs and like what and all that stuff is fine, right? But you’re eking out an existence and It is not it is not like the best life Which is not to say they shouldn’t do estuary or any of that But the forest and what you’re getting into and you got to understand where you’re going and you’ve got to understand where you want To go after that because just meeting people where they’re at is not gonna help. This is the empathy problem all over again Yeah, I’m depressed. Are you gonna jump in the pit and be depressed with me? Thanks We’ve got you depressed people instead of one and no one can help me out I’d rather have somebody not depressed help me out. Thank you very much I’d rather have somebody come down even from a reprehensible evil city and help me out Then then be stuck in the estuary the estuary You’re stuck Blind can’t lead the blind. This is the thing Right, and if you’re going into the place of blindness on purpose and you don’t have eyes to see and I would argue these estuary people Do not have eyes to see What they have eyes for is their Christianity and that’s good But they’re not accounting for the fact that other people don’t have that and so effectively when they’re yapping at people it’s jargon Because those people are we in a truck. Yeah Yeah, sorry, we need to make we build the frame and are we do we have the engine yet? And what kind of wheels I want fat wheels on this thing, you know I Heard the word frame. I always thought of a picture frame. I never thought of a chassis Yeah, chassis. Yeah, cuz we’re gonna go somewhere. We don’t want to just sit there look at the picture all day This thing together don’t need the frame of your car, right? But unless you’ve done a frame off resto or good part of one which I have so I know all about Harper Yeah, you don’t see the frame. That’s why people don’t think frame when they think car because your car has a frame frame frame You know your discussion you were having I heard a little bit of the compassion empathy thing It wasn’t ever about that. It was works of mercy. It was actually doing something You were actually You were actually it’s it’s the same thing as leadership all of these things take enormous amounts of work and effort They’re right Right, but a directionality matters. This is what yeah exactly You give me compassion but it’s not appropriate for me to ask for it like But I shouldn’t be asking for forgive like then it’s corrupted I don’t know compassion is Christian. I’m not sure I think I’m certainly not for empathy and Spirit It’s a fruit of the Spirit literally go read the scripture compassion is there is that the word That aren’t people like if compassion comes down from above if it’s an emanation Then it’s not something that I can give to you and you can give to me because it’s not human Right, and that’s part of the problem when people are asking for compassion or empathy or whatever. They’re trying to draw Intimacy to themselves from other people Energy vampire like call it. Yes. Yes Directionality matters. You can’t just say look. Well, that’s why leadership works, right? You can’t say oh, I Want I want you That doesn’t work like you can’t and you can’t say I’m gonna take leadership that also doesn’t work leadership Mark, you’re you’re you’re the energy vampire slayer Equity is being a vampire The whole desire for equity is a very scary nature. I’m going to take your place Lower you down take your energy to build me up to where I think I should be in this Not even though I’m just gonna bring you down so that I’m not so low Because if we’re all down or and this is the problem like literally I just it’s one of these things Right Ethan, that’s very self-serving. It’s one of these things where where They don’t account for lowest common It’s possible that that equality is only possible if you look at the lowest common denominator And they never consider that when they’re thinking about these they think everyone’s gonna be drawn up It’s like no or listed up or raised up. It’s like no no I’ve been too strong we could all be drawn down to the lowest common denominator Yeah, what was this quote Ethan but the fruit of our World search for fruit of the spirit, and that’s what came up long-suffering gentleness goodness and faith It came up Compassion there. Yeah, where’s compassion and where’s the fruit coming from? That’s a long-suffering energy vampirism isn’t it I couldn’t find anything else I just when I tapped in fruit of the spirit. I just got Galatians 522 It’s almost like it almost says glaciers, but But it doesn’t So do you remember it was it’s from somewhere else Jesse? Maybe we could look up. I wanted to look up the Greek word translation. Yeah I Don’t even know what it means does anybody know what what compassion means? honestly Like in the ultimate form it’s an energy vampire. I don’t know if you guys have seen that vampire show You know what we’re doing the shadows Character Colin and he just talks and talks and talks and then people start falling asleep and becomes energized By just being so long-winded about about things and you know I can imagine a lot of people in here We just are like like stop like you know. What are you doing? You’re sucking all the energy out of the room You know we can’t tolerate Deep awareness for the suffering of another company by the wish to relieve it Right and then so yeah sympathetic consciousness of others distress Together with the desire to leave alleviate it yeah That’s not nice compassion well. Yeah This is one of those Like I but Christ never did that I don’t understand no Christ He was just like guys I’m gonna show you what you’re like What you’re like yeah I’m gonna show you that you can walk on water if you believe in it But then you’re gonna fall and have to grab you and then I’m gonna be like everybody else in the boat get out here On the water no you’re true Is What it is in the in the Bible what they’re talking about the Hebrew and the Greek word sometimes translated as Also Compassion is not frequently used with a human subject it is found however in a mother’s attitude towards her son and That’s the interesting part to me is that that makes more sense because that’s where I said compassion is valid is Mother towards son towards young son in particular and then of course Peterson goes on about oh you get too much Compassion as your son gets older your daughter gets older and then you’re the devouring mother That’s not true for a mother and a child that if you’re like that with your child you’re hopeless like honestly You don’t you want to be like Christ. I’m sorry, but you do you want to see Exactly the potential in the child and the image of God in the child and have total trust because then the children They actually rise to your faith right they rise to your faith in your image of Compassion and this mother I don’t know I don’t even buy into that And also Jesus said you know you don’t have to do this this whole getting nailed to a cross thing too later on You know I’m doing it for you guys. You don’t have to you don’t have to do that That’s what my point is we misunderstand what it is principle of embodiment And that’s why I was going to with the fruit of the Spirit because the fruit of the Spirit is embodying the principles right? And the principles are spelled out in the scripture Yeah, I don’t know I Don’t know if we can do it that word the word and the term and the function have all been corrupted Yeah, exactly Jesse. That’s exactly the point. That’s why I’m I’m vehement about it Yeah, we’re cold the one thing what’s what’s the one thing that you think? Jesus did if we had to put a name on if it’s not compassion incarnation Mercy Incarnation mercy he changed their lives he changed their bodies for heaven’s sakes Continually he’s constantly healing their bodies so the dying on the cross is the incarnation of like allowing it To happen when you could stop it is it I don’t know I mean look I think that’s just exemplify are we getting into the weeds here? Maybe I think it’s a good point, but it’s exemplification. He’s saying you have to submit to Rome That’s why you can’t be a Christian anarchist you have to submit to Rome You have no choice you submit to Rome the way I submitted to Rome and and I think yeah Compassion is best understood as mercy and that then that squares the circle on a bunch of stuff You guys bill thank you very much. I mean the medieval people that you everywhere you go you see the I’ve told you already They understood that it was mercy that there was none of this other nonsense going on in our Difficulties understanding empathy that they were simply doing what they needed to do and the point I always thought about Christ Was I think the whole point about Christ is your point almost mark? That thought if we if we if we deal with emergence all the time then guess what you get tremendous evil and people are gonna Freak and well crucify you so you better notice that that’s the truth Right area that’s what Christ is saying it’s not about Christ to me It’s not so much about him on the cross is the fact that everybody was out to destroy him like Everybody was just you know and that’s I think that’s the point that’s being made as well never mind this I don’t really know this other stuff this Protestant idea of the of the crucifixion. I don’t quite understand that yeah It’s like if everybody did if everybody was themself People would try to crucify you yeah, well young Well, that’s marks point. That’s how we started this whole conversation today Right was this whole idea of emergence and if you’re and and if you’re going to if you’re going to be a mirror reflection You know of all of the the the the nonsense around you well then there you have it And there anybody good is is obviously going to be scapegoated right he was Right and you’re emerging what’s in yourself to right because they’re self Is all about yourself emerging what are you making yourself? You’re making yourself into a monster. Let’s be honest Right well what if what if what emerges from you are your worst fears and desires? What if what emerges from you? Is what? From you is your jealousy and your and your hatred what if what emerges from you is your trauma? What what about nobody thinks about this? It’s a guy this transformation process is not like some good It’s just okay, so the scrying the scrying mirror the scrying glass. That’s what that is There it’s like they’re looking in the what’s that quote looking through a glass darkly or a mirror Literally doing that and making out shapes and I don’t think I don’t think they are I don’t think they’re trying well I know but there it’s the emergence thing they’re expecting something to emerge out of interacting with this right Scrying a mirror they want yeah they want and they want something to come up magically Without them submitting to anything without them considering that what comes out might be might be bad and not good We want to do it by themselves on their own. That’s why all of the Vickie’s practices are fundamentally individualistic You can say oh you do them in a group yeah But that doesn’t make them group practices the thing that makes it group practices is the nature of the interaction relationships in the group So when we turn John Vervicki’s group electio divina practice, which is a private practice into a group practice It’s got a whole different flavor and a whole bunch of different stuff happens And you’ll notice you know and I’m not I’m not bitter about this or anything But he never talks about the practices that we came up with on his server He never did participant observation on the fact that they came up on his server He just kind of ignored all that stuff, and he’s all aware of it all right He never he never you know he’s oh, this is good. I like it, but he never talked about it He never said oh the guys in my discord server came up with this you know you never did any of that Well then again, I’m not mad I don’t care, but like also Why don’t you like group practices John? Why do you like circling circling the description of circling from guys and stock and the description of a seance are? identical and philosophical fellowship identical and private lecture divina Identical they’re all seances well. That’s the only place you have to go there’s it’s not like it’s it’s you know It’s not wrong. It’s nice to figure this one right to that right you’re stuck in the individualism Which means you’re stuck in the Gnosticism yeah, no higher anything. You’re the highest thing you’re watching emergence Oh look look at the emergence of the emergence is so cool Isn’t this great and then it comes crashing down and crushes a bunch of people is that what you want I don’t want that I want to be able to step back and look up Is this in alignment with the truth the good and the beautiful Or they just in alignment with the truth because there’s lots of true things that aren’t good like Satan’s true But he’s not good like you know little things little things little little things right what about the beautiful because what if it’s ugly What if it’s true and ugly and good is that it sounds like a spaghetti Western soap opera I love it I watch it Yeah, well yeah, that’s that’s one one heck of a good and the beautiful though, that’s the the Western soap soap opposite like people don’t understand in modern time no no no they knew this stuff they study play though They were aware of the transcendentals. They were deliberately playing off them on per you watch classic Star Trek Classic Star Trek it’s moral plays It’s a western in space and it’s more always you watch old westerns I’ve seen many of them series enterprise is a horse that the old westerns themselves are moral plays They’re set in the frontier in the vast wide open frontier of the United States and they’re idealized For sure, but they’re not really I think it’s earlier You can even go back to the there the 17th century British ship trades the master Is a sea the sea of outer space and everyone they’re on the ship so they have to buddy use the captain of the ship Plays out it’s just the genius of Roddenberry who was in three plane crashes by the way all of which he survived which I find very Yeah He knew what he was doing he’s ripping off the Western making it sci-fi But he’s keeping the Western and the Western is from an older pattern to your point. It’s all the same pattern It’s the go out and explore Ripped off the the Master and Commander author handle handle blonde like he admitted that yeah Yeah, no, of course they all did like it’s not a big deal. They knew what they were doing though There’s a pattern here to be found That’s why we have to navigate the pattern like there are patterns that have been recurring and people are treating them like oh no No, this is nothing We can just swap out the hero for some jerk and it’ll be fine or we can make the hero Female because it’ll be okay or we can you know we can do we can just have a hero in a movie It doesn’t do anything. It’s just like automatically okay, and and a Mary Sue we can do that. No you Can’t you can try? It’ll it’ll kind of sort of work in some ways, but it ain’t gonna work guys Isn’t gonna work because there is an orderly leading who’s she leading? She’s not leading anyone in those movies. She’s not a leader herself individuals Yeah, right. It’s two individuals not cooperating and then badness manifests evil manifests It’s like well, yeah, of course evil manifests and like oh we’re gonna kind of sort of almost sort of cooperate because we have the same proximal goal in the moment we’re gonna emerge a commonality and kill snow a Merchant cooperation like that. That’s brilliant this whole idea of false cooperation Look look at this look at this emergence you can look at it. You can all look at it We’re all looking at the same emergence. Isn’t that great? Can we cooperate around this? No, we keep operating on this. We have to look up. We have to look up We have to cooperate around our community guys The communities above you it’s the thing that you’re submitted to that allows you to be here and not go rebel mountain You’re out of here. I hate that rebel spirit Or you can you’ve treat you get that long hair and it’s just annoying and I don’t like it It’s a good thing. What operate anyway, Jesse’s an Australian like you can’t get any worse. Like there’s nothing else Right, so there’s all these reasons why I could come up with to not cooperate with all y’all it’s it’s not hard Right, and there’s one just agreements that we actually have that are real disagreements But again, I can drive to West Virginia right now I could go see near him and we’ll go to the bar together and we’ll have a cheese pizza. Damn it Everything will be purple gin Purple gin you drink Green lights going on We should all get together and have purple gin and where’s where the rebel mountains I don’t even know the Appalachians that’s a renamed in the rebel mountains and near him says near him says he’s floating that idea over there and everybody likes it I need a flashlight. I forgot this alive is gonna say it’s not gonna look purple, dude The Appalachians are on the East Coast of the mountain range. It goes from Maine to Georgia Oh Yeah, the East Coast United Nice what is gin made from juniper berries? You know what Plants and herbs Butterflop key blossoms Yeah, a bunch of herbs and flowers, you know what else By the way, just so you know Therapy drugs and they’re terrible so you can drink that stuff That’s beautiful Barrel when they are they don’t age in barrels obviously Is it kind of like a tea thing where they put the Tea and alcohol tea. That’s what gin is. Yes And they put other things in it to make it medicinal I’m sure Yeah Yeah, drink gin you won’t get cancer that’s my theory yeah There’s a lot of infusions you can do with like vodka I actually know all about this this is funny I don’t drink but I know all about alcohol and how to manipulate it chemically sick and what it and what it tastes like Which is just ironic? Hey mark have you done it have you done a YouTube on your emergence as evil like have you ever done that I just think it’s so it’s so important because I have something about emergence on my lyrics I’ve got a yeah, because honestly, you know people are always thinking it’s it’s it’s something other than what it actually is And it’s really on the ground Dictation program you can do this you get all your lives through I need to find better formulations. Not the ones I’ve already got. I’ve already got any better Formulations so that’s what I’m that’s what I’m gonna go I looked at some of the AI stuff today and there’s some interesting possibilities there But I don’t I don’t know what I’m gonna do yet, but I’ve got it. There’s some interesting stuff Apparently you can make tick-tock videos and stuff with this AI garbage. So who knows? Hey, hey mark. Have you have any of you guys actually ready and McGill Chris first book the master and his emissary? No Okay, very parts of it that’s about the right in the left brain Yeah, I just think it’s really it might I just think his thinking ties in very nicely With what mark is saying actually right like this whole idea of of the left hemisphere And and it being stuck it gets stuck within itself. It’s positive feedback, right? And so it just reminds me so much of what marks talking Overly logical Is wired in series like Christmas tree lights if you take one bulb out the whole thing go to that point In the right side of your brain is wired in parallel where if you take a bulb out none of them go out You know because they have more wire So chaotic in the right side of your brain, but that’s where your Creativity lies and then in left sorry about the language Literally Look robots have to think literally they cannot abstract. I actually wanted to bring this up like two hours ago. I just finished Isaac Adam’s mobs caves of steel This is a good book to read if you want to know what’s going on right now eyes and mocks Adam office caves of steel the bat a robot and emergence and a whole city that’s gone hyper city and They can’t they can’t break out. They don’t want to go to the stars anymore And they But that’s part of the problem with with emergence as such is that and and and I’ve heard kids do this a bunch of them actually recently In the past like two months We’ll get these these guys and they’re like, oh yeah. Did you know that you can run a simulation of? The thing in the thing right so like you can run Conway’s game of life in the Conway’s game of life I’m like, yeah, but you’re just making things smaller, right? It’s the reciprocal narrowing that for Vicky talks about and they’re like no no no It can break out and be bigger and I’m like no it literally can’t like where you’re getting right? There’s that there’s that need for certainty which requires a closed world the closed system Right and then in a closed system, which you would create with with one side of your brain, right? Like in a closed system you get certainty it gets very high It doesn’t get to 100% But they’d like to think that it does and then you’re trapped and you know You need to change like, you know, you could be better than you are as Peterson says, right? Like you could be more than you are today Well in order to do that you need to break that closed system Because you’ve bounded yourself and it’s like well, that’s why they want self transcendence because then they control it They’re playing God literally right and but you can’t have that because even if that were possible and I think it’s literally impossible It doesn’t work So you need to are green? Right, right and it’s automatic But McGill Chris says it’s really clear that if you’re stuck in your left hemisphere Which is probably our entire society you don’t know what you don’t know because of this positive No, no that wasn’t that wasn’t Bush that was Cheney but yeah, he got a lot of crap for that too But but you were right and and that’s the that’s the problem is that When you’re dealing with emergence within a closed system You think it’s certain and that you have control and then it’s inside of you. Oh, is it Rumsfeld Chris? I thought it was Cheney. Maybe it was Rumsfeld Yeah, I mean and they’re not they’re not accounting for all that and then again you get you get what we what we saw Right, which is the crowd follows the photographer because the leaders think they they they built the group They’re controlling the group. They’re the leaders of the group. Everybody agrees with leaders of the group And yet the group is not following them anymore And it’s just that’s it. It’s coming And and and this is why emergence is dangerous because we see it as something that comes up within the frame. We’ve already created I and I think uh, right it’s not there. It’s bigger than us Yeah, I think the the It’s the opposite wrong. I think the uh, the right hemisphere is the female part and the left hemisphere is the male part Yeah, he doesn’t go that far. I actually asked him because i’m part of his um, he has a Q&A and he doesn’t agree with that. I kind of wondered about that. He he he won’t delineate it like that But it’s one is feminine and one is masculine right hand The right hand is usually associated with masculinity and the left hand is usually associated with femininity He actually explicitly Says that he doesn’t associate them with yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he said that clearly but but it’s it’s really interesting It’s very interesting this whole this whole world of of the right hemisphere He just believes what he does is he traces out? Out the the characteristics of the left hemisphere and then he talks about the culture to your point as well mark, right and um And and builds a really fine case that we are stuck to your exactly what mark is saying only in in a different way Yeah, we’re stuck in the left hemisphere. We’re stuck in a we’re stuck like we’re it’s like being like like boomy shroomy We’re saying we’re in the swamp of emergence man. It’s a Right well since the revolution It’s the revolution with all no We try to think too much like machines no, no, no, that’s recent 1970s this is why I keep I keep pointing to this jesse like this is this is this is to your point, right? ai current ai tech is based on a 1970s model of the brain dude the stuff there you Is based on a 1970s. This is why this is why and I I laughed I talked to some people on clubhouse This is probably about a year ago now and and they’re like, you know ai this and they’re all ai freaks on that on there Anyway, like ai this and ai that is wonderful And i’m like you do understand that the current cog-sci model has four types of memory and you have none and they all went What And I was like you’re not paying attention to cog-sci You keep telling me that you’re modeling the brain and you’re not using the model of the brain that the cog-sci people have You’re not using it. You’re not even close anymore. You were in the 70s, but it’s been updated since then And that’s that’s that’s why I keep saying there’s a parallel between we’ll say the meaning crisis in the computer industry, which means The stuff doesn’t work. Like it’s really bad. I’ve been to a bunch of websites too that are broken Like the stuff is broken left right and center and there’s there’s a reason for that and it’s the emergence And it’s the collapse and it’s the over control all of that stuff happened in the computer industry and as a result Everything’s broken And it’s going to continue to be broken like it’s going to get worse not better Your software is not going to work very soon. My laptop crashed last night. It just crashed out of the blue It wasn’t even in use. I wasn’t doing anything on it. I was on Daily Huh, like Microsoft is basically just in the continue update stage now like it never right? Right, that’s so it’s emergence emergence emergence emergence emergence, right? So the new release methodology for software the actual release methodology nice to be a release engineer among other things So the software engineer release engineer systems engineer, right and the software engineer, okay, that’s software architect actually When you are constantly doing releases they have a thing called continuous release You might as well call it continuous emerging garbage because Mathematically, this is the thing that bothers me. I’m the math idiot and these guys are like, oh no Continuous continuous release is good. I’m like mathematically you’ll have more bugs It’s guaranteed. It’s guaranteed to create more bugs the more releases you have the more bugs you’re gonna have There’s no way around that relationship. Of course, that’s common sense It’s obvious and they don’t believe it. Oh my gosh, that’s a great point I’ve i’ve gone into this before they’re like Agile is a two-week release cycle process. I’m like who the hell would even want to do that releases should be expensive and rare So that you get them, right? So my car needs to the car works Yeah, like marriage. Yeah Like marriage like all these cars, right? Stuck in the emergence Emergence is good. You’re gonna get stuck in the in the quantity problem You’re gonna be like, you know what if we can just release more quickly and release more and release more software and more changes Well, it’s not it’s really bad for software, but it’s not for anything It’s like well if I just have more girlfriends I can run through more girlfriends and then i’ll find a wife Really is that how that works? No, you gotta take buy them It’s like I was talking about earlier with them. Yeah finding your person people actually talk like this Oh, i’m gonna find my person. You don’t have a person lunatic. You have to grow together towards a higher goal Like it’s not like oh i’m gonna meet somebody and then they’re gonna fit perfectly. That’s not how the world works What are you a lunatic? It’s hell yeah, man being in a relationship is hell sometimes it’s true it is hell that is That’s the way it is. That’s how it’s said. No, it can be good. Well, it can be really good, but it does It does It keeps you alive it keeps you alive for sure like honestly, there’s nothing else right there is nothing else but relationship That’s it Right. That’s the world world is relationship. It is the work of the ethereal and the material it is the knitting of heaven and earth That’s what reality is you can say there’s a component of reality that’s material and there’s a component of reality That’s ethereal but actual reality when we knit it together and it’s so obvious to me Because you make decisions in the world and when you make those decisions the things you didn’t decide in favor of aren’t real We know this Do this and we’re so confused about reality and i’m like Reality has to involve your judgment and your decision and your discernment it has to Because if you decide to crush this can the reality of the state of the can Is wrapped up in my decision if I crush it Reality is the can is crushed and if I don’t crush it the reality is the can is not crushed And there’s other options too There’s different I could squish it At least in theory, right? I could just crinkle it right? I could tear it apart. There’s lots of Pyramid out of it build the pyramid, but that’s the world Reality that means that has to mean and it can’t mean anything else that reality Is partially wrapped up in my decision not entirely Can okay, what’s the like? What’s the good axiom of love though? The good axiom of love is to see love is to see things in their proper context Right. Yes, right It’s attention McGilchrist says it’s a brilliant attention is love You have to harmonize with the other person you have to be in right relationship If you’re in too dissonant, it’s all right the frequency the music the vibration the love energy Sure Is you have you have to find that equilibrium that yeah, I think it’s like playing music. It’s yeah You gotta be playing music. Um, some people try to do a different song Like we’re gonna play the same song together. Otherwise No bueno All the all the love songs have yeah, but vatobin school too, you know, sometimes you have Drama you gotta play a song do you do a solo? That’s true You know you’re alive the drama is now, you know relationship is alive If you have no drama, you don’t have any relationship because exactly you’re growing together Well exactly and that’s the anti-empathy right? Yeah, but you’re growing together towards a higher goal Which is you submit it to the relationship. Otherwise, you can’t grow together You can just bounce into each other until one wins or they both fly apart And that’s no plans Or the song ends right? Well, and that’s or the or worse yet the music ends But the playing doesn’t Yeah, right and then that’s all just cacophony And that’s like the relationship before the divorce is finalized. That’s when you drive the chevy to the levy, but the levy was dry I knew that was going to come up at some point Yeah, yeah free bird one of those two things is gonna happen Inevitable when you talk about music you’re gonna get one or both of those things. Yeah Guys who’s anselman he always makes these great comments. Who is he? Do you know who he is guys? Other than a guy No, but he’s been Forever like he’s been with vanderklaut like oh, okay ages in a four or five years Yeah, come on for ten. Oh, yeah, I was calling josh jesse the other time But it kind of works because you can’t really tell just Just you know, it’s kind of the same james these crazy people with j names Oh We’re pretty common Yeah, well anyway, yeah, so your topics are good Keep on going mark What do you want me to what do you want me to go on about here? You’re in bingo card. Yeah, rebel mountains bingo card. What we need to do here is we need to start selling rebel mountains merchandise I have a mug machine and a straight machine. Just let’s get the brand together. What’s During the lockdown but I ended up Getting another job, but I have all the stuff to do it We need merchandise Why not honestly, I think it’s important you have to have something visual right you have to have something concrete, you know Person too. That’s the next that’s the next what do you need mark website website person? We got a website up and the person who was gonna run it for us. Uh, the left so I was like no I need I need this done. I can’t do this. I got too much other stuff going on What’s the symbol of the rebel mountains? What’s the symbol of the mountains the slayer? No A big old horn demon, he’s holding The good here we’re not trying to manifest That’s how you do it. You gotta kill all the demons mark. You gotta kill them all No mercy hold no quarter um, and then you can uh The rebel grown gardens out of their guts Okay, the rebels have the demons surrounded and that’s what they’re doing. Is that what you’re saying? No, it’s more of a fortress. The mountains are more of a fortress. Um, staking off the armies of hell. Yeah, that’s that’s There we go. I like it. I like it All right, the thing is those that can’t incorporate though can bring the mountains down Look at this gargoyle You need to have a ring ford at the top In ireland in ireland where I went they always have these ring forts at the top and they’re circles, right? What have you got there? a gargoyle It’s it See it sits on the table Yeah, they guard building there. They’re like guardians and he’s got a laptop. He’s got a freaking laptop Wow Gargoyle with a freaking laptop. He’s typing. Isn’t that the perfect image of the internet? You know, it’s it’s the perfect gargoyle like I have In the shed somewhere You know what happened was I was with my mother. We were in uh, ridgeway, south carolina It’s a beautiful place by the way, gorgeous little town. It’s great And it’s got the world’s smallest police station and stuff like that It’s a cute little old style southern town and she I forget why we were there there’s events there every once in a while So we’re just wandering around town and where she goes i’m gonna go into this little, you know shop They have one of those little shops that’s got random stuff in it. So i’m like, all right Well, she’s like you want to come with me and I was like, not really mom This is boring But so I walk in there and this thing is like sitting there on a shelf and i’m like, oh we’re buying that I love gargoyles like yep, that’s my gargoyle. That is a computer gargoyle. That is perfect So yeah And and that’s and that’s to stave off the the gargoyle and it works because i’m not Even though i’ve got four screens and well, is that five? I have five screens, uh, two computers five five monitors in this one room Uh, I I don’t I don’t stay stuck on the computer, right? I like today. I was outside earlier So yeah, oh wow I’ve got my 12 acres in my pond so I I don’t stay stuck. You know turtles did I see that? Yeah, yeah, did you see the turtles today? Yeah, I posted them on twitter Yeah, yeah Part of my twitter thing get on my twitter thing because every once in a while i’ll post pictures of the yeah, and then um Ethan hadn’t seen my property. I’m like, what are you kidding me? You’re on discord with me. You’re seeing the profits. I put I put the property and i’m on the time, right? I’ll just i’ll drop the phone in my pocket and go for a walk on discord and i’ll be talking to people And the camera will be throwing property and stuff. So yeah, you get to see the pond and yeah You need to do um some shorts and call them, uh safari time with mark So far, you know what I can I can show I can show turtles They’re not the turtles like today, but I can I can show you turtles. Give me about girdles Not girdles turtles Yeah, this is an older an older picture they look a lot bigger than they are let me uh, let me grab them Give me a sec here Do you feed turtles? Do they just like magically exist? No, no, they eat bugs. I have a pond. It’s an acre or so of water It’s just under an acre of water out of my 12 acres. So an acre out of my 12 acres is water Whoa, and uh, do you have a boat? I have a kayak. Yeah, good enough. You can traverse the water there Hold on There’s a bunch of turtles Whoa Whoa I feel like i’m on a safari already, dude. That doesn’t even look like Story time story time. That’s what we’re gonna do more of. Oh you guys are your damn stories So this is the far side of the pond That was taken from the dam. So I was walking across the dam and I had the night And I took a oh, yeah, well, that’s what the pond is formed with a dam, man oh So I took a picture with the nikon. So this is the the high end camera that I have And that’s how that that’s how that picture came to be They’re all sitting on a log. You can’t really see the log real They’re all sitting on a log that’s kind of laying in the pond that part of the pond is pretty shallow calling Jesus That could be the name of the turtles do the turtles come to you No, no, no, they’re they were across the pond. No, no you go. So I went outside Today and the minute the minute They saw me even though I was like 14 or 16 feet away. They all jumped off the log Wow But today what is what is the name of your kingdom? I don’t have a name for it. Although I should have Yeah, you need a name for your place You need to take a lot of time to think about it and then let me know later sometime then I’ll hold How many turtles are there? No, yeah Okay, oh shoot. It’s not working. Why isn’t it working? Hold on. I gotta kill it Yeah, you need a name for your place mark you need everybody needs a name for their place It’s it’s if you want to be snooty about it. It’s called the pond at Cherokee If you want is that the name of the whole kingdom or just the pond Yes, no, no that that’s my that’s the name of the whole kingdom in this case the pond of Cherokee pond at Cherokee It’s missing a world very good Why isn’t this show up? Not showing up. I think you could be as bold as to say Cherokee pond All right, here we go here we go as in that is the feature of Cherokee that pond this is my buddy He’s the blue heron Sometimes Is a huge bird he is big they’re beautiful Yeah, this is an icon shot again, yeah He’s really pretty Oh, I love great blue herons. They’re stunningly beautiful Yeah, no, no an ancient right? They feel so ancient they come from from Long ago those birds. Whoa I didn’t get an answer to my question though Did you bring the turtles or do the turtles come with you They were just there before you the turtles No, no, jesse, I have 12 acres of land so you’ll have to convert that to hectares understand Jesse you need to go visit mark which is a huge lot. It’s just I live in the woods. I I I should talk to you and six i’m six miles away from a from an imax movie theater. I’m six miles away from total Defined from civilization is to the nearest movie theater Well, yeah in this case it is but also grocery stores and and like there’s a chipotle in a walmart and all that Is within You go under this bridge You go under this bridge and then you’re in the woods like there’s nothing I mean, it’s not totally devoid but like there ain’t nothing out here in elmgen. There’s nothing at all So if you go the wrong way out of my house, like you take a left out of my driveway It’s very possible that you won’t reach a gas station anytime soon. Like that is a possibility You’ll probably hit ridgeway and be okay, but if you don’t hit ridgeway your skrew Your stuff you gotta write that down. That’s a song title if you don’t hit No, but write it down I mean, yeah, it’s no but I like if you don’t hit ridgeway, that’s good mark What what are you doing out there? Like do you have a garden? Do you have vegetables? I’m not a write it down kind of Rose I want to know if you’re growing food for yourself because in case we need You’re screwed Screwed You’re good we need music here we go. Come on guys Let’s see and You guys could do a song. We need a song. I’m down Okay, you two guys come on we’ve got so much talent Hold on. Hold on. I got songs are everything. I used to do that teaching We sang all the time. I never had a discipline problem. It elevates your mood, right? So I always started with a song and the kids were always full of life It’s great That is my window Oh beautiful Extremely beautiful lovely window on my house. So when I look out the the window that’s Beautiful beautiful romantic painting. Yeah, look at the colors Yeah, so that’s my pond yeah, I take the kayak out occasionally this is obviously not in the winter it’s a lot clearer now But yeah, that’s the pond that’s where I live that’s what I look at every day when I go Or hang out in the living room. I just look out the window Yeah, and so the turtles today you see that log in the front the turtles were on that log morning That’s where they were Yeah, not in the picture but in in well in today’s tweet. That’s where they were look at this Mark i’m literally eating dinner off the stove top right now. You should be proud And the reason why i’m doing this is because my friend Kira and Kira lives down here now She used to live in in california, but I actually caused her to move. So she she lives down the street for me Yeah, no, it’s a true story um She was saying she was reading something recently and she realized if women didn’t didn’t make the house a home Men would literally eat off the stove and the whole House would collapse and i’m like, yeah, they would they absolutely would and here’s ethan Admitting that he’s eating off the stove and destroying his own house, but his wife will be back soon She’s got to keep it reasonable because she you know There’s there’s family on the way She’s got to hold the family together. So she’ll make up for his uh, transgressions, but yeah in-laws are coming to visit No, no, no, no, no stories are coming that I think oh, that’s great Awesome Very good news Yeah Yeah, yeah So he’s eating off the stove top. Oh dear. Oh, well, so Leonardo No, no one’s getting the reference what what do we what do we Yeah Radical man, that’s who you got that from that’s right. They’re like cheese pizza Yeah, and then it’s the only The only pizza they can all agree on It’s true. You’ve been stealing from tnt this whole time Yeah, that’s the fucking literally. Yeah I Mark you’re definitely um I think I mentioned it once but if I didn’t yeah, absolutely Unbelievable look at this ethan if you eat off the stove top top, it’s less dishes. Yes, but you destroy the world You literally unravel the world We’re not doing dishes to destroy the world for the rest of us. Is that your justification? Yeah, i’m lazy i’m gonna destroy the world what do you want emergence emergence is good person Get some paper plates I thought he was on our side and now we find out he’s not he’s he’s on the other side He’s on the paper plate side. I mean that’s a good compromise No paper plates is bad paper plates Very funny Okay So, what do you think What do we think about what what do you what do you need? What do you need knowledge for elizabeth? I have no need of knowledge whatsoever. I’m reading Ian mcgillipus. We need to sing a song Ethan is choking on the stupid food now. Good. Good. That’ll teach you you Emergence first hippie bastard with the long hair. Here we go Such a great insult right like you emergent you emergent what are we gonna put you emergent motherfucker? No, you gotta you gotta call him like you see him, you know, you just gotta say it out loud Imagine that thunder bay There with me What did you challenge pidgey one and we never finished that thread what did you Because Alive this really strange idea. I think that I think that everything’s relationship. So even even with with god To me, it’s like this like it’s not like god zaps you or something. It’s it’s this you struggle with god You’re moving towards each other. So I was trying to say that because he said something about grace and I said no no jonathan It’s more like, you know, it’s the relationship but anyway But I said it in a harsh kind of italian voice because I go to italy a lot in southern italy and like they’re really harsh Like they just especially the dialect like it’s like yeah, it’s horrible It’s part arabic part greek and part italian and so that’s what I sound like most of the time when I come back from italy So people aren’t used to it, but I have to be like that because I travel by myself So I have to be like the cecilians when I go there, especially with this blonde hair, right? So that’s the way I was speaking and people were just as they were just aghast at my rudeness because I use this italian voice West virginia sometime because that’s how everybody is no the problem with Yeah, they are what are you talking about? But he was surrounded by sycophants and that was really the problem Everybody fawns over peugeot. I don’t think he’s you know, he’s just like the rest of us. I agree I wanted to and part of it’s my fault But I really wanted to dig in with him on a bunch of stuff and say no you’re doing this wrong And you’re doing that you can do this better, right? And um, I didn’t really get a chance to do that. Well, look look Hold on now. We got to deal with this wrong says what’s wrong with eating off the stove, dude I just went over this destroys the world you’re destroying the world the whole world You’re actually destroying the whole world You are taking the natural order and you’re checking it out because you’re an individual lazy individual Why don’t you eat with your hands? Yeah, why don’t you you’re not even supposed to be in a house. You’re supposed to be out hunting guys like that’s the problem Like mark you need to Just stick your mouth in the food and just chomp on it. Why don’t you do that? I’m not Because you’re destroying the world You’re destroying the world You can eat steak anywhere right great clip of mark saying this like just make a clip of it Why don’t we make funny clips like everybody’s too serious? This is boomy shirmy small. We’re getting this we need to get like a whole bunch of funny things I made everybody funny. I don’t apologize at all Ethan didn’t get a chance to talk to pejeau once which is which is ethan’s own deal I know but I took ethan’s picture with the verveky talking to verveky. So he should be humbly grateful to me I thought that was very kind of me to remember to snap Nero you’re making him worse dude. Nero is a genius eat with hands even less your hands made him worse How did you do that? You can lick it all off your hands, right and uh, you know, why don’t you eat everything like nachos, right? Yeah, the same reason I don’t come on this stream. That’s why you don’t eat off the damn stove. Look at this Yeah, I got this put on this shirt I did up the board. I’ve got my dragon up I don’t always have my dragon up, right? Like that’s that’s why you don’t need to eat off the stove. Look at all this work I put into this stream for you people and then what do you do you go and eat off the stove? Like it’s nothing This is terrible, you’re destroying our entire world Yeah, what’s on the board? I never can see what’s on the board. It’s too far away What you need to do is do a whiteboard on your Screen and draw stuff. That would be cool. Really? That would be terrible Technologist come on I could do all the tech. That’s not the issue. I just can’t draw There’s no point me having a whiteboard to draw. I’m just terrible at drawing Well, you could draw funny things and it would be you know, you could explain stuff with the drawings Terrible at drawing so yeah, I can’t draw I can’t I can sing I can sing but I can’t sing I can sing a little bit too We can all sing a song right here and right now Do you all row row row your boat? Row We’re good we did it you’re the best there was just a little bit of latency no, it’s Four voices started four different times that was perfect I’m Gently down But we really do need we need music I think music’s missing from this whole affair I think we had music there’d be a leader would emerge. That’s for sure We have to have a right relationship to the right music because if I just go on and start playing some some Metal church and that’s not going to cut it. It’ll make me happy, but it’s not going to cut it The metal church is actually that way if you haven’t heard metal church, it’s freaking fantastic, especially their first album Just a transcendent out. Yeah, where’s my what’s it called? What’s it called mark? It’s called A few cool if you’re cool, then you get a card. It’s a metal church signed by the band I love it You bought a metal church t-shirt and they sent you this without you even realizing it for christmas and I was just like This is awesome I went to see that everyone the things you learn The things you learn it’s just amazing. It’s a nice little Did anyone listen to my uh To what? Did anyone listen to my lost album? Yeah, you have an album bro. I didn’t know you had like The first one’s okay first one i’m gonna re-work actually, oh my gosh the talent here is astounding Oh very cool And then he just takes off he doesn’t care um, that’s what happens when you eat from your stove top I i’ve eaten What is with this this You can’t you can’t have it He’s like, please don’t oops, please don’t look it up I prefer that you do raise your pinky. Um, I think it adds to an effect and also, you know It doesn’t get stuff on your pinky. It keeps it dry Are you like this? Yes, indeed. Yes If you don’t drink tea that way Sean you have to I look I I object I object so Ethan is is a uh It is is is a lover of this type of music. Okay, and I think you know The iron that iron maiden is a great band, right? But but they’re not as good as metal church metal church has great religious themes in it I mean absolutely great even like their second album fantastic stuff. I’ve never even heard of it I thought you meant like a metal church Nope, no, no, they’re a bit there. It’s really funny. They are really good like they’re really they’re like they’re like You know metallica is metallica and ride the lightning is the greatest album of all time There’s no question about that The greatest pedal album of all time is right like and and they never got close to that even with puppets Which is another great album, but metal church for consistency. Oh, yeah, it’s solid stuff I mean even though their first album is great like because you can go into like anthrax, right? Fistful of metal great album great album wonderful wonderful hardcore music The rest of anthrax is different though and they get worse as they go on to some extent And so there’s a change but metal church is consistent very consistent And it’s very very good and it’s very it’s very high level Like like the whole song metal church too is great. It’s just great. It’s great It’s fantastic stuff. It’s very religious in nature too. They’re always talking about that like they have one about uh, Edgar Allen Poe too. They’ve got a post-op. Oh, they’ve got great deep philosophical music It’s really fantastic. Even though it’s very it’s very high speed. It’s very fast metal. It’s good stuff Okay, where’s jesse’s music Plastic He hasn’t he hasn’t given us a link to his music yet, I think is the problem All right, I guess I have i’ll do it again. Gosh, did you when did you do this? Did I just miss it? Did I not put it my three times in these lives? I’ll do it again Do it again do it again It’s not on my browser for some reason. So that’s my bad. It’s my bad How do you want me to share in the chat spotify? It’ll send it to everybody everybody wants to participate right? Thank you everybody Everybody everybody should participate I remember you talking about it and I thought I put it up in one of the browser windows to look at later and Then obviously I didn’t because I suck so All right troglodyte ethan is back tell us about your experience destroying the world by eating at the stove ethan, please um So my wife actually is here But when she saw that I was uh doing this she’s like, okay, i’m just gonna go in the room tonight and uh I came back in here and she went into the kitchen and I think I messed something up I think I might have messed the pan up. Um, actually I might have to go Uh-oh He might have gotten himself in trouble. That’s not good. Oh Oh Yeah, there’s we’ve had a lot of arguments in our house about this stove top I bet I bet mine’s glass. I got one of those newer glass electric stoves. It’s pretty cool I’m actually serious business. It’s a serious business when you transgress good Is the pan okay? All right, will there be macaroni in it tomorrow? Maybe okay, maybe Don’t say uh, don’t say macaroni. Come on. No, no, I want to go back to the store and get some mac and cheese bettacini I’m getting hungry. Oh dear I ate before I came on here because usually I get hungry in the middle of eating chips And I was like I ate a bunch before I got up on here. I did a little dinner today. So i’m I didn’t have There you go So that’s not that’s not enough for me mark can’t you arrange that food on your live stream Come on i’m sure we can figure this out Actually, we could eat dinner here. We can all separately cook a dinner and then eat it at the same time We did that on the on the discord server Yeah, yeah, yeah, we had a whole ritual friday night dinner. It was actually fridays too friday evening dinner We’d all eat dinner to get friday and fish. Oh, that’s good work It worked really well. Actually. Yeah. Well, you know, I miss awakening from the meeting crisis in the old days We had some stuff going and then just nice people Wow How are they doing now? So you’ve got an you’ve got a situation you’ve got a story to go with this You know what they’re doing now even how they’re doing now is the mark of wisdom server almost always has more people on it than their Server that’s how they’re doing So when it’s me and manuel and sally joe, we have four people and they maybe have three usually two This server is basically dead and that’s too bad because I spent a lot of time building that Over there and then it was never yours They they ruined it. They ruined it It sucks to put so much work into something and then it’s taken away because it was never yours But now you’re putting it directly into something that’s yours so It can’t be taken. I don’t know that it was never mind part of the problem was I took the community that I built on the john bravicki meditation live stream and Voluntarily brought it over because brett seemed like a like a you know a reasonably good good actor and then what emerged from his Poor leadership was bad and that that’s that’s when you don’t have strong leadership when you don’t have a strong container You end up with badness left right and center And that’s really the interview all this badness, you know kind of happens Why did you yeah, it’s kind of weird What happened? You know, I was just thinking the opposite happened In the in the bridges server. Um, the guy that started it ended up leaving And he did make the whole thing He made the whole thing happen and then he left because it it got Something emerged out of it that wasn’t the original idea or intention Yeah, well the the the the thing became corrupted that’s basically what happened Is it he could have he could have bought it though, but I I can see why that would be like a A waste or a lot of energy, but not a waste particularly a big drain Uh, or would it you could just go delete delete delete, you know, goodbye. Goodbye all these people Um, it’s over because I like this thing that was going on and now it stopped. Um Right, but what he did was he transferred the responsibility for the community back into the community But of course that doesn’t always work right? In fact, it doesn’t often work And so what ended up happening is the community blew up. That’s all And it’s not entirely gone or makes the server still there the awakening server is still there It’s just that the community is gone The ethos is gone, right? The cohere is no longer there. And so you’ve lost something very important in that process So why does that happen guys? what the The lynchpains fall apart and then there’s just a few things holding the structure together and then There’s still a structure there, right? But When you don’t submit to something from above You end up in a mess You have to be ready willing and able to submit and that submission has to work Like you can’t you know, even a bad leader is better than no leader And people don’t they don’t appreciate that. It’s like look you can have something imperfect, right? The perfect is the enemy of the good or you can have nothing It’s up to you or the worst the worst the worst state is So you’re gonna have something good. That’s not perfect or you can have nothing or you can continue To emerge and emerge and emerge and emerge and emerge but the odds that that’s going to be good each time are very low and it’s gonna hurt people and just Constant churn for the sake of churn is no good I mean, that’s one of the problems with with protestants church hopping is that there’s you know You’re not building long-lasting churches by church hopping so you can say oh my church does for 25 years It’s like well, let’s let’s let’s score that up against the catholic. Shall we? You know, like it’s not even a challenge, you know or the orthodox those churches don’t go away in 25 years What are you high and I think they’re trying to do the cheers thing I think that the protestants are trying to be like which one of these churches is like cheers And then we can all do it, but I don’t know if they figured out what which one’s cheers is Emergence is good. It’s a very protestant attitude, right? Yeah, I’m not saying that they don’t believe I don’t know It’s a problem Because like we talked about before, you know America the whole rebellious spirit You got you know the computers and the automobiles and the airplanes and the spaceships and all that stuff. Um So like that’s good, right or is that bad? Should we be honest? You ready for this? Here’s here’s a here’s a good segue. You’re gonna love this. It’s not a segue. It’ll look like a segue I saw a video. I think it was today. I can’t remember it because whenever I have these stupid Afternoon sleepy things. It’s a problem. It was either yesterday or today. I saw this video And the video was amazing. It was about bread And the guy was making the case that what we have in the united states is not bread if you go to france Right. He was doing comparisons with the number of bakeries to the population and all this stuff Like they go and get fresh bread and what he said was People go to the to the bakery And they say hi and they talk and so it’s kind of like The place that you meet together instead of the bar we’ll say is the bakery and I was like that is fascinating We don’t have that in the u.s It’s like no we don’t we only have the bar Like that’s all we got left. We we have a bakery I go and get fresh baked bread and I have that conversation I get bread sometimes there’s um, there’s another place in town that bakes a lot of restaurants bake bread and sell it like I don’t know I don’t know Yeah, I don’t know as long as I remember they’ve been doing that but anyway, you can’t even get bread in france. It’s like very hard Well, yeah, yeah, you got to slice it your well when you buy that that bread it’s good Yeah, but it’s only good like the problem with baked bread is it’s only good for like three days So you’re gonna get yeah, you gotta go get more and go talk to him. You know, like Like you get anymore make your own they used to go in france i mean jesse no Really good Make your own he’s australian We can’t get spaceships if we all make our own bread, um, that’s my argument like do we need to be amish or do we Need to be enterprise or what? Where are we? What are we doing? We can’t make spaceships if we if we all make our own bread. That’s perfect. That’s a good metaphor for everything But you see that’s the cooperation. What do we have in common baked bread that we have to get fresh every day Right. Yeah, you gotta go get that baguette Uniform bread Right milk delivery Good point. We don’t have milk delivery But we do have salad delivery. There’s this place that has a garden And they they come around and deliver salads, but we don’t have milk We should have milk more milk delivery. Yeah, that’s all gone from us. Where’s the milk man? I know there’s no one to make uh to make bastard children anymore. It’s no good Oh, yeah, they all got killed by the husbands. You’re right. The milkmen are all dead They couldn’t you know breed any more milkmen because they all got um, you know selected out of uh into extinction What was that crazy thing was that you that looked like some bread? It’s a spaceship bread Oh, dude It’s a personal solution. Yeah, we all make enough bread. We can make a starship out of it It’s a personal starship and it’s not even big enough for you to fit on so It’s not helping you’re not helping you’re making it work. What is this a center for ants? Zoolander is the most prophetic movie of the 2000s. There you go If you go if you want to go know what 2020 was going to be like you just go back to 2000 Watch zoolander like we became this we became the social media hyper obsessed celebrities of our own lives ourselves literally Yeah Yeah, that’s interesting. How does the um Well, the idea of emergence keeps us individuals right because we can just emerge into something better and transcend ourselves, right? So that’s got us trapped, right? That’s one of the stucknesses Uh the belief that’s possible which is so absurd to me I every time I run into it and I run into it all the time. I’m always Amazed quick, how did you what is your thinking process on that? And then and then the other one is this idea that we’re important somehow And it’s like no the important thing about us is not us the important thing about us is whether or not We go to the airport to pick up to pick to be together Right and to listen to music together and share our knowledge on a six and a half hour drive up to thunder bay Which apparently for banderclay was like eight hours. I don’t know what they took um It really wasn’t six hours I don’t I don’t get it. Anyway, um, you know it is Yeah, it is this coming together on a live stream, right? It is changing the time of a live stream or doing it every every friday so that so the crazy australians can join Right. It is this uh this you know Giving up our our time at the bar to come in to come and be ecumenical cheese pizza Right. It is all of that I think he’s going to the bar I think he should take us to the bar set us set us on the bar so we can participate Turn it on when I was there. I’ll do it next time. He’s done it before I’ve done it before you start the live streams both driving to the bar. That’s what we do You start the live streams driving to the bar and then you meet at the bar. That’s a perfect live stream Ooh We can all come in. We can all come in and then eventually mine and you’re in me They just build a whole bunch of new hotel rooms here, you know because the Because that’s what we’re doing this rail ride We’ll do a conference one of these days. We’ll all be there. We’ll all be at different hotels We’ll all stream on the stream and then we’ll come together and then we’ll be on one camera. It’ll be hysterical It’s a perfect idea. Yeah, one of those beautiful. I’m i’ll do that I’m all right We’ll get we’ll just i’ll try It’ll be that eventually gonna go to canada. So we have to have our music though guys. Don’t forget our songs Who’s gonna like who’s gonna take responsibility for that? Jesse you got jesse the famous music musician. Yeah, he’s got albums Do you have a name though jesse do you have a like a stage name? I did I did I have an early got a couple But what’s it going now? The new one is open futures, but that’s that’s Open futures. I thought that was just the name of the album. That’s the name. It will be i’m turning it into a brand I’ve been slowly crafting my excel document of marketing Okay, if the people like this people like this style of music, what is it? How do I do it again? Because I have a bunch of other songs that me and arren the singer never we never released so it’s like, okay How we can see he’s he’s got three kids now, so he can’t He can’t be be as passionate about as I am three kids. Oh my goodness What is life with that my goodness? He runs a really cool leather business. He makes leather products, but yeah Yeah, he makes really cool excellent Does he make does he make costumes I need a I need a leather a leather costume from lake seven that’s what I need I was told myself I try one one of these days Wow, yeah, we all need costumes that’s true, too I just I just need my leather avon costume from lake seven. That would just make me happy This is getting to be quite an enterprise Yeah, I need to get a captain kirk shirt There we go. You definitely need that sir. You gotta get that The old school gold one. Yeah Yes, we’ll all be different gnostic versions of our highest value it’ll be great, okay fine I get I get to get me neo’s leather coat if we all going gnostic so i’ll be Matron, you know neo’s leather coat is good. I like it. I like it even what you got. What are you gonna dress up as come on? Oh god the northman I don’t want to talk to us anymore fine fine You gotta pick a gnostic character. Ethan. We got captain kirk. I’m avon from lake seven We’ve got jesse’s neo. Who are you gonna be? He’s gonna be the mushroom Oh, there we go So you’re gonna dress as a mushroom and and talk like this I love it. All right I don’t know all these movies. So i’m just gonna be a banshee Okay, that’s cool. We’ll kill it. All right I’ve always wanted to be like that’s what the way I was talking to jonathan pageau and nobody understood They shriek they shriek they’re in ireland if you go to ireland someday you’ll hear them at night time These oh, yeah Oh, you should go. Oh, why why don’t we all go to ireland? We should have an idea That’s where my people are from a lot of the rebel mountains people are from ireland which would explain why To tell you why I don’t go to ireland because like that’s all the money I It’s not very expensive I always find the cheapest places to stay Right. She’s good at that. Yeah, and then and then after I go First I need to be able to afford a flight. That would be good. Actually Let’s just take a boat to the airport Let’s take a boat No, we’re gonna sail across the sea No, no i’d sail i’d sail across the atlantic no problem leaving i’ll do it let’s sail. Okay, i’ll do it How are we gonna learn about sailboats? I’m gonna get one eventually And I can steal that from north carolina we’ll sail up the coast and then we’ll sail it across the atlantic Okay, you have to pick me up we’ll have to meet me somewhere Oh The st. Lawrence to get you right? Okay. Okay. Well i’ll come up a little bit. I’ll go over to kebac, you know Geez no drive to drive to uh Drive over to uh, Nova Scotia somewhere. We can pick you up. All right. I’ll come over there. Okay, that’s the deal What about jesse? He’s gonna have to have his own. He’s gonna have to do a solo He’s gonna have to drill through the earth and come out into the mountains There’s no sailing I’m gonna go through the hollow earth down here. Yeah king kong and then And jesse will pop out out of one of our coal mines i’ll go down and meet you halfway We got all these like miners that have gone down halfway You’re almost right in the trophy and they’ll have to defeat a balrog too. No, I’m down King kong would give you a fist bump. He’d be like helping you on your way and then he’d say You know those coal miners up there in the rebel mountains dug two feet the dwarves they dug too deep That’s for sure I’ve been in some of those mines. They’re scary man dinosaurs. There’s all sorts of things down there. Yeah The mines. Oh my gosh Kong’s gonna have to Your your movies are terrible kong lives with the dinosaurs. They’re friends. He can get you past it. He’d be cool with yeah He can get you back kong is your your home. I know the movies come on. Give me that. All right Come i already watch out for those sleet stacks bro Oh sleet stacks Dude i’ve been watching that recently like a couple years ago. It was that I did too last year I love sleet stacks sleet stacks. Yeah, I used to do this all the time to my buddy. I’d be like sleeeet stack I’d post it on facebook and stuff. Everyone’s always like Stacked yeah, that’s they’re so slow Yeah It was crazy because a family filmed that and wrote it together Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the whole land of the lost thing was great. It was great. It was good The original yeah series was just fantastic. It was so goofy and fun. And yeah, it was it was just great Yeah, rewatching it was a real joy. Oh, yeah Yeah, yeah i’m rewatching andromeda now which is just andromeda is great like what oh, yeah The the whole magog thing is is is just right on the nose but very interesting Parasitic baby. It’s parasitic emergence is good Yeah, that’s what they do right they implant the eggs in you and then the eggs burst out of you like aliens. Yeah emergence is good And that’s why they invented nova bombs because of that Bad news, yeah That’s genesis 3 Genesis 3. Yeah alien Never read it. What what happens in genesis 3? Is that the giants? No genesis 3 is the When eve the snake seduces eve. Oh back there That’s what what does that do with emergence snakes? Where’d that snake come from? But that’s the whole the whole of the ground That’s where knowledge is the highest value. That’s why the gnosticism is there. That’s why it’s not this isn’t it’s agreeing with with the snake Especially the green meat. Oh, yeah, it’s the tree of knowledge. Let’s let’s eat the fruit Let’s eat the knowledge fruit and then we’ll have the knowledge. It’s like well. Yeah, that’s why gnosticism is Definitionally wrong. It’s right there in the bible you muppets. Did you not read the damn book? Somebody went through a lot of trouble to make Do we try to like like throw up the fruit but oh it’s bad let’s get it out or do we build spaceships? You know, what do we do? Is it okay to go to space? We commune together. We commune together what emerged after the snake? This is a good question. I don’t know what emerged after the snake Space I mean a bunch of bad stuff clothing and all this shame and all this bad Right. Yeah, you live in shame Self-consciousness, right? You know what it it what it did is it was the spirit of exploration because clothes enable you to go to different climates and environments and outside the perfect environment of a garden wall It’s like we have to equip ourselves with clothes and then later on spacesuits with this new endeavor after we ate the fruit We’re like this is our mission now. Well, you got to know what is out there what’s going on and the clothes Enable us to embark on this adventure Or yeah, or not, I don’t know maybe maybe maybe not I don’t know. I don’t know. I think the gnosticism comes from the snake. That’s where the gnosticism comes from the snake It’s us spread out And not able to transcend because knowledge kind of weighs you down like the stars The stars are spread out. They’re never going to be together in one thing They’re spinning away from each other further and further in opportunity. That’s what’s going on with us Yes Yeah, there’s something about the stars. They are up there, right? They’re up. I mean they they’re there man What are they? Well, I don’t know but they’re beautiful, you know you go out at night time and you can See all the all the different, you know The big dipper the little dipper. They’re pretty amazing. Watch them move across the sky. That’s that’s um Yeah, I I think we need to spend more time. We need to do a stargazing live stream, too You know what i’m gonna do i’m gonna i’m gonna just for jess for jesse i’m gonna post the I have a A short video. I think it’s 10 minutes of me What I did was I had a I had a one of my other cameras I mounted it on the kayak and kayaked around the pond So i’ve got a short 10 minute video of that and then I got a few videos of the um of the drone uh Flying over the property. So maybe i’ll maybe i’ll grab some of those videos and post them on my personal channel Just my name And we’ll well, maybe we’ll put up Storytime i’m not good with stories stories require framing like that’s that’s my story You’ve already been telling stories. We’ve already got a frame and now we’re building the engine and we gotta decide if we want fat tires Or or skin are we getting smoothies on the rims or we’re getting rims, you know, this is where we’re at now We’ve got a frame It’s happening where we get then we got to figure out where to go with the truck And navigate You need to tell us where to go with Why is it we got to get to the pizza place that’s where we’re going with the truck to get the Cheese pizza, which is really hard to get about ecumenical cheese pizza. Yeah, don’t be hard to go get the ecumenical cheese pizza Yeah, we need our cartoonist my cartoonist hasn’t answered me on discord recently so it’s probably busy Yeah Okay How well it sounds like two trips to me because there’s one on the sailboat and one on the track So this is good, maybe we need a third one a mouse motor or a rat motor. No, I don’t I don’t think either I think I think Regular, but I although a 454 v8 motor. No, no, I just I just saw a good I just saw a good video on the wanko rotary engine. Oh, there’s a new there’s a new rotary I can’t put something in a vehicle and drive it if it’s called a winkle I can’t do that It’s a really cool engine though, there’s a new rotary engine out there that is we need to rename it a winkle But it is a rotary engine I cannot get in something With that name, did you see the one the one cylinder one stroke motor? Because that looked really interesting. It’s that better. They have one i’m like, oh I want one. All right, you can’t have a one stroke. That’s impossible Simple no, no, it’s not no, it’s not at all actually How does the one how does that work? Because you use the back end of the piston cycle to do a bunch of things You it’s like a gun like a gun Yeah, you use the same format that you use in a winkle like a what because a winkle is technically a no stroke engine Because it turns But it’s got three chambers and that’s how it makes the same four stroke cycle is out of the three chambers Yeah, yeah what well I would winkle and stroke in the same google search bro, yeah, yeah don’t look bad No, they’ve got they’ve got a ton of people out there have done um winkle engines with a with a glass Things you can watch the cycle it’s really cool because because you can compress the four cycles into the three chambers pretty easily Um, but you can do the same with a with a with a single stroke engine We lost jesse I don’t know. Yeah, I know in australia. Nothing happened in australia. It fell off Yeah, the the wallabies have to turn the packets the internet packets Oh Yeah, or they get sent otherwise The australian internet goes down rocko’s fell asleep on the job That happens because the the the kangaroo the kangaroo internet network you know Packets are upside down the wallabies turn the packets around when they fail to do that connections drop You got him back I’ve got wallabies in the uh in the columbia zoo, by the way in kangaroos. So i’ve seen this process Very important very important concept people don’t know this technology. That’s why i’m a computer expert. It’s critical I mean, it’s a critical part of australian animal husbandry Exactly. Exactly. See near near a member’s chance near a member’s chance Okay Yeah, you’re gonna take those packets and you’re gonna flip them over and then you can send them Then they’re right side up when they reach north america. I’m trying to share a meme I’m trying to share a meme and I have to like navigate technology. Where’s the meme? Here we go Get confused trying to share a meme and the and the wallabies are keeping the meme upside down and I gotta make it right side up before I can send it on the internet It’s probably the context is already over but I think I figured it out it’s never over that’s the me context is never over You seem like someone with high openness to experience nice Nice, I like it says, you know, I saw something really disturbing when I was playing cyberpunk 2077 There was this uh lady The Banging a snake and it was called the gamora show excuse me and I was like Pretty obnoxious. It’s very it’s very evil. Like I guess in that picture As someone with high in openness to experience right Don’t bang snakes it’s bad all those things knowledge experience they’re interchangeable, you know, I mean I Don’t know about that no experience experience is participatory. It’s when you focus on the experience to the exclusion of of bad boys We were talking to somebody a couple weeks ago on the verveky you were there and His whole ethic was experience Is like yeah, what what’s what’s your purpose like what’s the goal that you’re trying to do is like I want to get people to have Good. I want them to have I didn’t even I don’t even know if he said good experience But he just said good experience. He was trying to get people to experience for the sake of experiencing which is That’s That’s all emergence is good experience just experience. Yeah, but but what if it’s a bad trick like that? Yeah Yeah, and I do girls like bad boys I don’t know. Why are you going? That’s a stream on the drone because no because The snake that’s another four hours the snake Why did she listen to the snake the bad thing the bad guy? It was uh, what’s about what is that about? But yeah, it’s another string. You’re right All i’m gonna say is drama drama attracts things Okay. Yes Well, yeah, well and also, you know you want somebody who can survive because that means that’s it that’s it Right. That’s what the drama stories are about right? Drama stories are just high octane adventure stories and also jesus said he said be as kind as a dove as wise as a serpent That’s weird, right? Isn’t that weird? What does that mean? Depends if he means serpent by time Like wise is a serpent because the serpent No serpents serpents aren’t snakes. Oh shit. What? What is that? Serpents are sea creatures Serpents are sea creatures Float along the chaotic waters Isn’t it a sea snake? So it’s a water snake. I’m almost sure that serpents are sea creatures Yeah, but is this just a splitting a hair type of thing? Through this or is this a true truth thing? No, I don’t think so I do I do think it’s a mistranslation because i’m There’s a huge difference between serpents and snakes That’s not true What does it mean though? Come on guys What does it mean? The dictionary yeah the dictionary the dictionary says that they’re they’re Synonyms, but I don’t I don’t think that’s actually true. I think you’re right. Mock I think snake is on land a serpent in in water. So I think it’s just In the water or on the land i’m calling it a snake and i’m running away Yeah, a serpent that’s in the water. It’s just more more shape-shifting more fluid and more uh Than a serpent that a snake that’s on land or did jesus say that because he knows serpents are wiser than snakes because they’re in the water What does it mean though? It is strange though. I never thought of that before. What does it mean to be? To be like a serpent This turned into navigating biblical hour. Jesus Neram neram started all this Ah messed it up Gotta kick all the christians off consult your books neram consult your bed Not welcome here Crazy christians no one gonna understand what you’re saying except other crazy christians Well, no, nobody understands. There’s no such thing as a crazy christian No, no there are Nate heil’s a crazy christian. I’m a i’m a christian anarchist. It’s like yeah, I know you’re a crazy person That’s what you are There’s this thing called the law of non-contradiction. So you can’t be an anarchist and a christian at the same time There you go What’s the difference between a snake and a serpent there is no difference between a snake and a serpent the suborder of snakes is called serpent serpent test which is why we call them serpents I I think there is a translation for you Because i’m sure that serpents are actually water creatures and snakes are actually not And they might be a subgroup or whatever But I think the reference to serpent particularly in the bible is actually tied up with the Not with the snake but with the with the water creature with some snakes are canines So some cats are canines and some dogs are canines And some dogs are wolves. This is where you’re getting into etymology of Yeah Wait, what cat is a canine? A saber tooth tiger tiger. It’s a tiger tiger Okay, I guess I don’t know what a canine is I thought that that was just the latin name for a dog So dying What’s a canine I could be wrong I could be wrong, but maybe It’s not as quite as dangerous as a k-10 Oh, geez, no, it’s canine is pointed to Oh, okay, yeah, it makes sense. Well all cats have pointed teeth Yeah, great it’s great to know that sometimes I get things right The important thing with the with the whole tree and stuff It’s just there is it it’s anything anything in insubordination. That’s what it is Anything removed from its context are taken to be good in and of itself I mean whether it’s knowledge experience Emergence literally anything that’s in subordination to god is That’s the story, you know you Yeah, that’s yeah, it can’t be out of context right can’t be out of seeds Apples have seeds, right? So you’re taking the thing that produces seeds and consuming it for yourself Oh, yeah, it’s sort of carrying on its cycle of This was this was actually an interesting point. What about that? that i’ve been thinking about lately which was which is Relevant to emergence one of the problems with emergence is you’ll hear people talk about the seed And the seed contains all the information to make a tree And I couldn’t figure out why like I knew that wasn’t right So that is wrong. It does not And I can prove this pretty easily you take the seed out to space Nothing that you do to the seed is going to grow a tree. It’s never going to happen. So yeah, you can Yeah All of the information is not in the seed that is wrong The information that you need if you are in the right conditions to grow a tree is there the tree needs gravity Or it won’t grow that that’s information the tree needs sunlight or it won’t grow that’s information The tree needs a change in the sunlight. So it needs night and day that’s information The tree needs water The tree needs oil and the tree needs moisture Otherwise, it doesn’t grow that seed does not contain those things those things come from the outside And so these emergence people will often do that and even the crazy christians like paul van der kleij talks about that too It’s like so does paul I should talk about that that’s why they’re gnostic is because they’re eliminating they’re eliminating material cause from the Right from the thing like the seed requires material cause or which is probably easier for us to understand is material constraint or just constraint You can’t a seed cannot exist in outer space. Like it cannot fulfill its formal cause In outer space it needs that material cause that’s why you can’t get like there’s always four causes You have to have that material cause you need the efficient cause to the person that plants it But like you can’t you can’t remove that. That’s why it’s not The ex nihilo that that is that that’s the only thing that doesn’t have material cause that’s the uncreated creator Anytime that you try to get rid of material. It’s that’s what gnosticism is You’re trying to create something out of nothing and you can’t do that’s well said ethan. That’s exactly right Wow You better talk to paijo. You better straighten him out in the mustard seed thing Mustard seeds. Yeah Like this is why Christianity is so important. It’s like it’s like what does the world look like without gnosticism? It’s like it’s christianity like you don’t know like like that’s the only thing that’s like that’s what it is What hides gnosticism? Yeah. Yeah Because christianity fills the whole world. It’s like it is the constraint. It’s everything And when you remove the constraints when you’re trying to chase this unconstrainedness Like the like there’s goodness in the constraints when you try to eliminate the constraints the constraints are bad You turn it all turns into gnosticism right Yeah, yeah the seed needs the material constraint the material cause Right cause yeah. Well, yeah all the constraints there’s a ton of constraints and people don’t they don’t realize that they think the seed can just Self-transcend Like the seeds just there and it’s got all the information it needs And then it just grows into a tree and it’s like no the water comes from the outside Sunlight comes from the outside the earth is outside the right all these things the conditions For the seed to germinate are outside of the seed It doesn’t only be right here Wow That’s good the plateau all over again, you know In the in the airships going into the abyss to the floating islands Misunderstanding that you can just become a tree Like that. This is all inside you somehow and it’s all available to you that tree needs cultivation That cultivation can come from nature But it’s better if it comes from a person I mean, this is what i’m saying about gardens like gardens are work. You have to trim the plants You want good roses you have to cop them you can’t just wait for them to spring up and look good That doesn’t actually happen. Have you ever seen that that ridley scott show the raised by wolves with the atheist androids? Yeah, but that trick chick turned into a tree she turned into a tree right yeah That’s that’s just but that’s all that was one of the problems with that show It’s with the first season the one that I saw it was all like we can emerge we can emerge we can emerge It was an adult swim sci-fi extravaganza, but it didn’t but it didn’t work Like it didn’t like the story didn’t hold together. They kept trying to make the story hold together and they couldn’t do it Like yeah at the end they had that dude floating in an upside down crucifix And he’s bleeding out of his face And and it’s interesting right there Is weird shit Symbolism just happens right because what happens is she becomes a devouring mother? And she floats up above in a cross and just zaps everything and it’s like Do you guys understand what you’re symbolizing here because you clearly don’t like but it did no they did all along you can see Traces of it. I think they were Finishes how like the last season was and where she gets to she becomes the big mother and Goes into some pretty dark Yeah, right But I don’t know I don’t I think they were trying I think Gnosticism is inevitable when you’re trying to make individualism work when you’re trying to rebel against structure and constraint I think gnosticism emerges it just it’s gonna happen because emergence is real. It’s just that it’s not formed It’s not structured and it doesn’t work And then you end up with secret knowledge and forbidden knowledge and And knowledge is power and and spells and all this crazy stuff Like you you will end up there inevitably. I think james lindsey’s right about that It’s the problem with gnosticism is you don’t need any help to get there Any three-year-old can come into gnosticism all by themselves. You don’t need any intelligence And I I think those people they are and they are Coming to gnosticism on their own and then finding someone like hagel or carl marx or whatever and going Well, that guy’s really smart because everybody says so which I assure you they’re not really smart and then they think they’re smart And now it’s just worse, right? like now it’s like oh gnosticism works because I came to it and Hale came to it and now we’re both super smart and therefore and it’s just it’s feeding your ego And and then you’re doing more of it because it worked It’s like well not really but glad you think so Yeah, it looks like it works though, it’s very tricky Very elusive, right? It’s it’s hard to see Yeah, but see they’re no fun to be around Right, that’s it. That’s true. That is so true Yeah, they don’t have any cheese pizza They don’t No, not at all. Yeah Yeah, what could it be? That’s how I always tell that’s my mark on things Is can’t are these people fun to be around? If not, like I don’t know what the fuck you’re doing But it sounds like it sucks and i’m gonna go It’s disassociation ultimately they want to pursue wizardry for disassociation To try to escape whatever the struggle is internally or externally probably both Yeah, they just want to disassociate from it and so they go to a means of power that helps them disassociate Yeah, but it has this feel of of energy draining, right? It’s a horrible feel and just think oh my god, get me out of here Well, I don’t I don’t think that that’s what they’re going for jesse. I think they’re going for their trish trying to Become individuals As a way of getting away from constraint and the rest of it’s happening as a result and then they’re rebelling against that Looking for intimacy, which is why they go. I want compassion. I want empathy. This is what’s going to solve the world It’s like no, it’s all the world It’s an attempt for you to solve your problem that you created by being an individual It’s not going to solve the world. It’s going to make everything worse, but then that turns you into a parasite like now you’re a parasite Yeah, the scary thing is is like the We’re in a materialist culture and materialism is breaking down and people are starting to see past materialism And I think oh just because i’m seeing past this materialism everything is good They’re becoming re-enchanted and they don’t understand they think Is good reaching the end of materialism, right? Materialism doesn’t describe the world and then they’re going like oh this doesn’t describe the world What do we do? I know let’s go to john bravicki. He’s got this whole thing about participatory knowledge, which is non Non-material fundamentally he’s got this whole non-naturalist reductionist system where he understands that ideas are Are are part of reality sure equals mc square is real. She’s a barbie girl in a barbie world Is pretty deep then That’s very materialist It is isn’t naturalism a form of materialism though Can’t you be a naturalist and still no no no no material? This is the problem that the people that the non What is it the non-reductionist physicalist that’s what john claims to be a non-reductionist physicalist They think That that means they’re out of the materialism But I think it doesn’t I think that the materialism doesn’t have to say there’s nothing non-material As part of reality now all the materialism has to do to be materialism to to cause the problems Ethan’s talking about is to say material is primary in the world. In other words That could look very non-material you could say well if only we had certain rules to the twitter platform Then it wouldn’t be a dumpster fire are people making fun of each other. It’s because the Material world is going to determine our behavior. That’s materialism The material world is not going to determine your behavior You’re going to manifest your behavior in the material where you can And so if it’s not twitter, it’ll be something else and it’s not like oh We have all these people on twitter if we put new rules on they’ll behave No, they won’t they’ll leave and they’ll go somewhere else and do the same bad behavior because the material Doesn’t constrain us in the way we think and this is why the political framing doesn’t work and this is why the economic framing doesn’t this is why things like Um, yeah universal basic income can’t work. It’s it’s a non-starter from from minute one Because material doesn’t doesn’t have that effect on us. It doesn’t give us the good the true and the beautiful So Yes, okay So the thing is is materialism a lot of times when we hear material we think of Physical stuff things that you can touch. That’s not what it means. I’m I’m kind of summing through some etymology here with material Materialism is so if you if you’re familiar with play-doh And this is what’s very enchanting about verbecky is he brings back play-doh and play-doh has been kind of absent from our um Our our guys our our our culture for a while. We haven’t So there’s this there are these ideals, right? And then our um, and then there are Instantiations of these ideals and those are that is what material is so if I have an idea I express that idea with words So i’ve heard mark people get in arguments with mark before because he’ll say oh well you’re just totally caught up in uh propositions or something like that or words like you’re focusing way too much on words and You’re and he accuses I don’t know if he accuses them. He says that’s material you’re being a materialist. I’m not being a materialist words are not materials Like yes, they are they’re material because they’re expressing higher ideals like words are not ideas. They’re expressing Ideas, I think of things in a triangle So you have the idea up here And then it’s expressed in terms of of words or propositions or what have you, you know You have the ideal and then you have its expression And what materialism is is confusing the expression? Of the ideal for the ideal itself, so they don’t you don’t really believe in ideals You don’t believe in the higher thing that that condescends and comes into that’s incarnated into um incarnated into like uh Trying to think of the correct of good language here Reality the ideal incarnates into reality it realizes like so you see um That’s what it is is you’re you’re confusing the the instantiations the particulars the expressions of the ideal with reality itself You think that those the expressions are the primary cause of everything. That’s what material is Yeah, the parts the parts are confused. Yeah So earlier there was a there was a kid on here and he was very frustrated with these propositions that were Um that were handed to him that came from a christian tradition He says these propositions mean nothing to them to him and he’s right because propositions alone mean nothing like they come from a higher ideal like the propositions like i’m going to give you this problem, I think something that what he brought up was um, um It was he actually invoked dante, you know like People that commit this certain sin end up in this circle of hell in inferno And he’s like that means nothing to him to me and it does mean nothing to him and what I what I wanted to say to him What I was trying to say to him. I mean, I don’t I don’t think he saw it. I mean whatever as like okay the reality Of the fact that like, okay, let’s say what what’s a what’s a sin? Elizabeth like what? Okay, so there’s there’s a proper place in hell and the inferno for for gluttonous people And we just say okay gluttonous people what were they doing? What what was their um, What were they suffering their punishment? Yeah, what was their punishment? Oh, I don’t know. I can’t remember right now Okay, so they’re they’re assigned a certain punishment, right? And that’s just a proposition and but you have to go you have to go to the place where this proposition came from because somebody’s expressing a higher truth in the In it by a means of words and propositions you have to go where that came from you have to you have to experience Where that proposition came from? So if you confuse That’s you have to understand that the propositions come from somewhere. They’re descend from somewhere. They they’re condescending and Materialism is just looking at that bottom part not looking up and saying oh here’s the propositions and you take The propositions as reality like the propositions are your faith your faith isn’t the higher ideal your faith is the propositions That’s what materialism is It’s confusing that bottom part the part that expresses up the ideal As reality the causal force of reality. That’s what materialism is right Right. Yeah, doesn’t exactly and i’m looking this up in material Um It’s linked to mother which is very interesting. Yeah matter matter because mother is is Is comes from the ground like is is the bottom mother’s up here and mother is down there like you know mother earth You know It comes from the book ground up. It’s what’s expresses like that That is just ancient like the feminine comes from the bottom and expresses the ideal and the ideal is Is masculine and the two the two the communion of the two is creation that’s what creation is or right? Or I mean right more at least at least the realization of creation you could put it that way reality the Reunion of those two things mother material you need both of them And you confuse it. We look we’re looking down. We think that the The material is the only thing that exists we think that reality we can we think reality is material and that’s Right, and that’s the determining factor, right? It’s like oh, yeah And also do we when you look across or down and you know across and down or just down right from his eyes down The problem is that we see these chaotic Emergences from the flat plane of of the material, right? And we think that we have control over that because we’re above it Right. We fail to see Whether or not it’s good or bad because we’re not looking up where the virtues and values are and then at the same time When we when we’re looking down at that and we think we control it because we can’t see below it We can just see it coming up from the plane We have all these mistaken impressions of how the world actually is And we’re focused on those mistaken impressions we’re focused on The illusion in front of us And we’re focused on material not as constraint But only as something we can manipulate to build with And then people get the idea that oh material Material is a bunch of building blocks Right Presupposing idea about building blocks. That’s not what it is. So what ends up happening is We think that we can organize material any way we want Any way we want it’s arbitrary because we have control over it. It’s like no material also contains constraint It also contains constraint you can build a brick house you can’t build the four-story brick house All right, because after that it becomes unstable Can’t build a skyscraper out of bricks You need concrete to do that the material you use matters because the material has constraints built in And we’re not seeing the constraints Because we’re not orienting it towards the stuff that’s above The stuff that’s above Towards the idea we’re not orienting it to that so we’re not seeing the constraints We’re just seeing stuff from the bottom go stuff from the bottom. I can build with it Yeah, but you can’t build anything you want with any emergence You can’t just take random material and build stuff You’re not gonna you’re not gonna build a car out of popsicle sticks. No You have to use carbon steel people don’t understand this This is why um, this is why 1060 or 1070 carbon steel is perfect for a car frame That’s what you got to use this is why a um like a A violin concerto sounds different than a piano concerto And they’re not interchangeable And the person writing the music doesn’t write the same way. He doesn’t write Simply he writes differently for a piano than he does for a violin because they have different constraints And not one is better than the other they’re just different and they’re they’re good in so much that they serve the telos that the composer Is trying to do and if you’re like if you have this weird like what you were saying mark But oh, it’s just we can do anything we want Oh, well, I can take a I can take a violin sonata and I can just transpose it to the piano and it’s going to sound Exactly the same. No, it won’t The hammer is not a drink Right the very nature of the instrument the constraint the material constraint Causes has a causal effect on the end result of the creation But when you’re when you’re looking down and you’re only seeing things emerge from below You’re not recognizing constraint at all because the constraint comes from above And that means you can’t recognize good from evil or good from bad or right from wrong, right? You can’t because you need to reference and orient that Thing from below with the thing from above. That’s what you give new ethics Yes in subordination. That’s the thing is this In subordination, that’s genesis three is the sever the sever separation The severation that’s not a real word, but you know, whatever whatever the right word is The severing of these two things is whatever it is It’s like it’s not like that. This is inherently bad. It’s that this is not inherently good. They have to be properly ordered ordinated properly ordinated So when they’re in subordinate, this is there’s a separation there You have everything like hierarchy is inevitable, right? Like what just like what you said everything has its proper place This is justice. This is what playdo was talking about that he was You know exploring and stuff like that This is just very primordial stuff like this is yeah, it’s basic understanding the order The order of the universe and the fractal order of everything so everything falls into place It’s all constraint is very much to me like context, right? It’s all context It’s what’s it’s looking at it from all different ways so that you can actually See what you’re looking at it’s actually forming a relationship with right it’s it’s the relationship with the context is that Which is which is constraints necessarily. So yeah, otherwise we just we end up manipulating What we think is matter and ending up in a disaster. Yeah underline what you just said what we think is matter Jordan peterson said something like along these lines to he was talking to people that were materialistically minded um He says well the world isn’t made up of matter Or if it is made up of matter there’s something that you fundamentally don’t understand about matter Which I think that’s the thing is like I think that’s that’s actually what it is. Like it’s not like oh we only see matter. It’s like We don’t even see matter all the way like there’s something like we’re we’re seeing less than matter like there’s something much more Yeah More depth to matter that we don’t understand mcgillchrist was saying that today at the beginning of his first book He was saying it’s not an ontological primary, right matter is not an ontological primary and then we’re getting back into genesis one like like this is You think like if we were about to go extinct and we’re gonna condense all of our wisdom into like one One little thing it would be something like genesis one the beginning of gen one two and three and four would be something like that like the way like for not like the way that we encounter the world like That’s the creation myth, you know one and two and then like this in sub this this this whole thing of insubordination. That’s genesis three Like if we were if we were if earth was going to explode and we had to we had a limited amount of space And we can only put like three chapters worth of of text or something like that or whatever It would be something like genesis one two and three That we would want to give to our options. That’s language of creation That’s why matt chair peggio did that right because it’s like oh and then you need that that unlocks the rest of the bible According to him. Yeah, and there’s a reason it’s At the beginning that’s a reason they call it genesis and those patterns are important, right? It’s also it’s interesting too, right because and and I went over this in my in my video, right? On peterson’s trip peterson gets into the bible through egypt. Why because it’s the intersection of history and the and the bible And so he grabs the materialists and says here’s the intersection of this crazy mythos With the thing that you care about materialists, which is this objective history garbage It doesn’t really exist but like egypt is the crossing point and then you can bring them into wherever right once they’re in the Symbol, it’s very it’s very clever what he does and why sneaky he he’s he’s he’s he’s sneaky That’s the whole like this is that wise is a serpent. Excuse me, buddy. Exactly No, they’re like there’s some there’s some i’ve had some insights on I just had to get that in boomy shroomy because mark wouldn’t let me before No, no, you’re exactly right because there’s something very strange going on with um with christ and there’s an inversion there with the serpent in the tree like a um pageau talks about this he says Christ nailed to the cross is the same thing as christ nailed to the tree It’s the same thing. He’s the same place. He’s it’s the same. He’s playing the same role. He’s flipping it Yeah, like he’s tricking people like there’s a trickery There’s a serpent around that there’s a serpent around the um the cross, right Have you heard him talking about that? But the and serpent has changed I think that’s how fragile matthew refers to him and serpent is changing in that in that comes the light So that’s something to think about. I have a painting. Um I have a painting in act is this is pretty common A depiction of the crucifixion and you look at his body and it’s kind of It goes like this You know, that’s not a coincidence and he refers to himself as a serpent on the on the As you know what? Moses had in the wilderness, you know with the serpent on the on the on the staff Like it’s the same thing. He’s he’s There’s a trickery like that. It’s tricking the world back Back into order, you know, and that’s what peterson is doing. He’s tricking people By doing that that’s the trick of peterson like and mark is right on with that like he he like He he spotted it and no one else did you know like Anaclae. Yeah. Yeah mark. That is a brilliant observation about how he’s how he hooks he hooks People with the history of that story. He uses he uses the materialism To get you into symbolism. Yeah, without jargon And like that’s that’s one of the reasons why I was a little a little nervous or upset or whatever when the christian language comes out because i’m like no No, we need the materialists But we needed to do me shroomy to say that because now we have a whole other idea about this whole serpent No, no, no, I like it. It’s just become very writ, right? It’s just become very Right, but I take very seriously pidgeot’s comment to os guinness in episode eight of exodus where he basically said You can’t say god coming down from above to these people Yeah, you can’t say that of course not. They’re materialists. They’re looking down If you say there’s something above them They freak out Well, what about when uh, they? Odin got crucified was there a snake around that tree? When he like threw his eye down the well to learn always. Yeah. Yeah Viking tree you gotta remember that all Everything that we know about odin is filtered through christians So we don’t know what it was. Did they burn? Did they destroy all the old stuff? Why don’t we know what they didn’t have they didn’t write anything down? It was all written by Christian monks, so you’re saying that the crucifix that the the odin tree they got from uh, jesus We don’t know. We don’t know all we know is The powers are probably there though, maybe All we know is that it was interpreted by christians because they didn’t write it down And so all the depictions we have are fundamentally through the christian lens That’s all he’s saying what about you know throwing his eyeball down the well and all that We don’t know because they didn’t write it down Because that’s kind of like eating the tree of knowledge like throwing your eyeball down into hell to learn to free yourself Is that the idea? Yeah Okay Yeah, because that’s what that’s what peterson talks about in that program. He is understanding yourself. You have to you know find out The hell describe the hell that you want to run move away from that’s throwing your eyeball down the down to hell Yeah, does he keep his eyeball down there? He’s he’s got an eye patch, right? So his eyeball’s still down there and that’s what gives him his power, right? Right, right because that’s that’s what when you recognize the inferno Then then you know where you stand and why it’s a problem to be Emerging continually because that’s where you’re going to be so you need to know that right? You need to have gone through maybe that’s you know, you need to have gone through the the hell of the Of emergence, right? You do you need to see what that means? That’s what the vices are It’s what the okay. It’s everything out of place. It’s food out of place sex out of place. That’s what it is interesting Though you have to have the the ethic has to is primary Dante starts with the inferno, right? But like there’s a whole bunch of presuppositions That you have going into it like you know that what these people you know that these are you already know that all these people Are doing all these bad sins you still have an inkling of that of that that that first principle the very first principle So like you can’t derive the first principle from from the ground up it like you have to have You have to have it first. Yeah Because he exactly because and nobody talks about what happens to dante when he gets out of the inferno he goes into the heavens He like he goes to the different. Um, like the different planets mercury and venus and Mars they’re like different levels of heaven they’re called the celestial spheres or something or whatever Anyway, they get to pluto and it’s called. Um Imperia and there’s all these angels like in a vortex of light and they’re like all telepathic or something and he can hear them singing and It kind of alludes That this is like god maybe but not quite they won’t come out and say it Because you can’t say that so it kind of alludes to that that dante would have never been able to see this and go on this tour um through the heavens and you know what’s interesting in that They’re going through the heavens and there’s a place where Abel is and abel is crying out for revenge against cain and his children And god put him in this place where he just hurt himself Because god got sick of hearing abel talk about revenge in heaven And I was like dude, that’s heavy like what? Like that’s crazy. Um, and I and I just got really absorbed into that last part where dante moved into heaven And got a tour of it with the angels and uh, nobody ever talks about that. He had to go through hell and purgatory in order to get to heaven And see it and explore it. Um, and I think that’s worth talking about But but it’s about attention though, right? It’s about attention So and and and the idea that he has when he’s in hell virgil guides him through hell So it’s the idea again of relationship right and community. It’s it’s actually about community and interestingly enough It’s the feminine at the beginning of hell It’s the madonna who sends sent to lucia who sends beatrice down to get virgil to to help Dante beautiful demonstration of hierarchy It’s just yeah, but yeah the whole thing. Yeah, it shows you the unified All right But if you look at if you look at something like peterson, what does peterson talk about he talks about the idea? of an emergent ethic Let me say that again in case you missed it Emergent ethic just sounds like thing is an emergent ethic. It doesn’t even make any sense ethics can’t have to do with an individual There’s no ethics on a desert island alone. It doesn’t exist like this is a foolish. It’s a foolish mistake on peterson’s part. Yeah Dante makes that point at the very beginning he takes one one or two canto, right and he makes the point It’s the it’s this the feminine the feminine Telling telling directing virgil to to do what he needs to do so that he he gains He gains in his ability to pay attention to notice what’s going on absolutely There’s no way that but that you can see he’s already got a unified field there, right? He’s already got the unity in the particulars together But there’s the danger of the of the emergence is that people are trying to resolve The hierarchy through emergence they’re trying to say what comes up below From below is going to resolve ethics It’s not Ethics, so we should go down there and kill that stuff so it can’t come up and hurt us No, you’ll never you’ll you’ll you’ll run out of life because it’ll never stop coming You can’t identify against there is an infinite amount of things for you to identify against Yeah, and it’s dangerous down there. It’s extremely dangerous Dante is constantly terrified and virgil’s having to carry him and help him along and put his arm around his shoulder And it’s it’s he’s in constant danger down there and frightened frightened And not able to actually move forward without virgil. We could put swords in the ground everywhere No, if they try to come up it’ll stab them No, you need the things from below. You just need them And constrained by emanation All right Constantly open if the portal is open monsters will always come through right If it’s one thing we know about the underworld is the underworld is full of monsters Well, don’t be surprised if you drive by a house in west virginia and there’s swords all over their yard Like I agree But we need to sharpen our swords Right That’s why they tell you after the war is over you you put your sword back into a plow you You use your sword as a plow. So you’re there A plow share, you know, right, but there’s a sense. There’s an ancient sense in which a sword is Yeah, but a sword is a being I I hate to say it but a sword has Is like it’s a being it’s um virgil is almost like a sword he’s he’s He protects The power of grayskull I really think swords are important too. Just saying Well, they are but we also their authority they’re the gathering of authority And they’re the symbol of leadership, right? So the authority comes from having the sword and the sword is given to the leader And it doesn’t have to be a leader. All leaders have swords. Do you have a sword? The knights all have swords too. The medieval knights all had swords Is it I think I think that I think you you men nowadays need swords in my humble opinion I I do Knights are leaders. They are in charge when the king’s not there. They are leaders The sword conveys authority so that they have some leadership and with that leadership and responsibility Neuron’s got the sword. He’s all set Hold on beautiful Oh, that’s beautiful Wow real sold in america Oh, yeah, is it real? Can you that’s absolutely real? Is it sharp? Yeah, it goes the tang is right there and there’s a hex nut that goes into it so I can replace Yeah The tang goes all the way through it’s part of the sword Wow, it’s all attached It’s all one piece all the way back to here Which is the pommel this is called pommel you could you can buy any sword jesse that they you can’t buy them This was made in north carolina by blacksmith Uh named is trim Tell us what that little thing in that that channel in the middle is It’s called a blood groove but really um But actually that’s a very important point this type of sword is called an oak shot type 16 And it has a diamond cross section like it looks like a diamond Yeah, but anyway this this sword, um That has the groove in the middle it reduces weight, but also increases strength because it makes it um Like a it’s really thick and so it has a higher angle you can go down and and make a A thicker blade that’s more resilient in combat, but it’s blighter Is that right? But they call it a blood group because it’s it sounds cool and I guess blood squirts out of that when you stand When you’re trying to when you’re trying to puncture something. Yeah, there’s a lot of pressure Yeah, that channel is going to relieve the pressure so that you can right? Push it in easier. I remember when I was little I asked my dad. I asked my dad what that was. He said it’s a blood Something to do with blood I said what’s that he’s like he wouldn’t tell me he’s like oh that’s inappropriate Yeah, it’s called that but it really it it’s mostly to do with the structural integrity when you’re like actually So yeah There’s lots of advantages, but the important part here to notice about this and it is important. It’s the most important part Thank you for Alicia. I mean that was interesting and beautiful It’s not a flat piece of metal like a razor blade Why is it not a flat piece of metal? It’s not a flat piece of metal because hierarchy is important and it’s a hierarchy system throughout the blade throughout the sword Throughout the handle and the sword that makes the sword work It doesn’t work as well if it’s just a flat piece of metal Right a flat piece of metal with a handle doesn’t work as well A blade without the blood groove doesn’t work as well These constraints on the blade make the blade stronger more usable and make it work in a way it can’t work otherwise Right. Oh Yeah, that’s what I was gonna say the reason that it has a diamond cross section and the blood groove Does not go all the way is because this sword was specifically designed to pierce plate metal Um, it’s so the tip of it is like a spear But this part where it’s lighter, you know, it’s it can be it’s like a hybrid sword That’s why I liked it like you can use it for that and uh like quick Movements like a like a defensive sword This was like a sword an archer would carry as their backup because it’s not a long sword It’s called a bastard sword because it’s kind of not a short sword either. It’s in the middle And I really like that about it. So that’s why I had this one, uh made like that I thought wow Anyway, that’s my sword. It’s a bastard sword because its identity is mixed Yeah, but it was made by a blacksmith. How yeah, how wonderful that there was some in north carolina Yeah, yeah, you can buy those they have renaissance fairs You can buy real swords up that were made by the guy who’s at the renaissance fair And I like how he kind of modernized it with this hex I can unscrew this and take this all apart And clean under it or change the handle change across whatever I want Because some people peen this like they heat it up and and hit it with a ball peen hammer and round it and that that sometimes you know isn’t good because you might want to Take it apart or do something and sometimes that wears off and gets loose and shaky anyway Because of use over time the sword. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, i’ll stop talking about swords That part of the country You said after use they wear out I was like how much used to these things get a lot The things they’re doing over there they’re fighting all the time they’re rebels Yeah Yeah, but it’s an interesting thing instead of a you know, like a gun or something like that It’s actually like this metal extension of your arm, right? Yeah, it’s quite instead of instead of the mechanization. It’s fast. You gotta notice all the reverence in all the media for swords It’s amazing. It’s everywhere right honoured associated in japan with swords Right the fighting always comes down to swords, right? Even when it could come down to guns so if you want to look at something like Like firefly the series firefly the movie serenity Like they they screwed up because they didn’t default to swords. They defaulted to guns for their anachronism, which was great But it didn’t it fell apart people couldn’t relate you can relate to the sword. You know, it’s it’s what’s funny with um, you know star wars like hyper futuristic Society it’s they’re fighting with swords like despite all their technology their past life. They’re back to swords Back to swords back to the source That’s the only reason they could use swords they had the magic that could deflect the bullets the blaster bolts But it’s no it’s but it’s more significant than that that the honor is still in the swords No Warriors used use swords the jedi and the Yeah Well, if tom if tom cruise would have been able to deflect the bullets in the gatling gun in the last samurai That would have been a whole other movie But the jedi prefer not to use guns. They’ll use the blasters, but they it’s a last resort sort of a situation And you can see that right? Kenobi shoots shoots grievance or something or one of the guys with a gun and He’s like, uh, uh, so terrible, you know, it’s like the worst thing ever. There’s a Exactly exactly there’s a reason for that because it’s not personable enough because to your point It is an extension of you and that’s why it’s got a name, but it’s also Neoplatonically part of you and and that’s the danger in the neoplatonism is the dualism Well, that’s why I bring up the round table a lot and king arthur and the sword and the stone And I I don’t know for those of you familiar with my channel, you know I came up with this catchphrase You got to pull your dick out of the stone because you know a lot of people just kind of keep it stuck in there, man You got you got to not do that. You can’t be walking around with this Stone attached your dick just dragging between your legs. That’s what a lot of men are doing, you know But that was a whole other that was a whole other thing. But uh, I thought the terminology was To uh bring us The sword is a phallic symbol. Okay, and then what does he do? He’s done with the sword. He throws it in the lake. The lake is a feminine Symbol, you know, well, you are he sheathes it right So every sword must have a sheath Okay, and if it doesn’t It’s gonna rot you’re cutting you’re cutting everybody you’re you’re hurting everybody all the time, you know, you don’t these would have uh, um Fat or oil in them, right? And they put them in they don’t rust you don’t want your sword to rust Yep And if you didn’t put if you didn’t have a sheath your sword would rust and it would lose I mean the innuendo for days innuendo for days Um, but everybody gets it. We don’t need to get too graphic about it. But that’s why It’s very it’s fundamental to everything. I mean the thing is it is sex has been reduced to physical Um, physical stimulation and we think that it’s some you know, idiosyncratic Like it’s like primordial like it’s it’s everything Everything that I show talks about could be we could use the symbolism of of sex and the sexual act everything I’m surprised that people don’t talk about it more quite honestly. It’s the union of two things Yeah, like you’re talking about material and ideals like it’s the two coming together that’s what creation is Yeah, like what do you need like god figured all of this out like seriously, you know, everybody knows about sex like really I’m sorry, but you don’t need to read the bible to know about heaven and earth You take the seed the seed the seed right? The acorn is nothing without not everyone We are we’re a d-sex culture everyone thinks we’re sex positive we are sex negative all the way down All the way it’s turtles all the way down there I mean this is this is the problem. I was talking about with andrew with the bangs when I did my um intimacy crisis Yeah Look, I was she asked me flat out She said why do you think people think frotto and sam are gay and I was like well, it’s very easy Because in order to have a connection, it’s got to be physical. Therefore. That must be sexual I mean, there’s no such thing as a bond of friendship You don’t think people can be friends that’s ridiculous People think that they can’t be friends That friendship is so just it’s disappearing they’ve reduced it but this is what jesse’s talking about right the Symbolism isn’t there. This is what i’m trying to explain to people You’re not getting it You can put the bible in front of somebody and they can want to read it and they will get nothing out Nothing zero out of it No, really well my aunt doesn’t believe this but you know, I told her I said no i’m trying to explain something to you They do not understand poetry They cannot read it They they can read it and they get nothing out of it They’re not able to use poetic language to connect anything in the world And if poetic language doesn’t connect things it has no purpose. You can’t it’s not functioning anymore That is the loss of the poetic information in the world That’s the loss of navigation of the sorts of things that mcgillica talks about that make potential You can’t connect to potential You’re gonna collapse in denialism for sure it may take years But you’re gonna collapse in denialism because you can’t connect to potential through poetics That’s a big problem. That’s why you can’t use christian jargon with these people because it’s not connecting the christians go Oh for vicki, we already have language for this and i’m sympathetic. The problem is for vicki even though he grew up christian Doesn’t have the language right literally Right, right if we were if we were to have a date if we started a dating show For god who would be some of the contestants? That he could you know Participate in this question I made this argument a lot. I feel like there needs to be a uh another You know a feminine side to the whole thing Yeah Yeah, well to ethan’s point about words words and poetry, right? So in a poem you’re pointing to other words you’re pointing to other metaphorical Symbols you’re equating things but also you’re bringing things up your heartening language with poetry And that’s what we’ve lost is this this spiritual connection between words and between words and symbols if we’re no longer able to have that romantic spiritual connection with Each other as well as to the world because everything has to be flattened out um I gotta I gotta run but I guess one thing I wanted to leave on is in the samurai culture. It was dishonorable to Uncheath your sword if you did not intend to find it. So Be careful swords swords go both ways once you once you uncheath your sword once you show your Intention to combat you you can’t go back on that. They they the sword There’s a lot of men. It was you know, if you’re if you’re pulling your sword out For any reason other than its purpose you’re using it for vain. You’re using it to vain glory. Thank you. Are you Sacralizing it Yeah, well said jesse. Have a yeah. Thank you Always a pleasure to have you on the stream. Shalom. Yeah, take care Whatever it is over there. Yeah, it’s morning. It’s morning for him. Good morning. What time is it? What’s the time difference? a lot It’s gotta be yeah um yeah, the the so there’s this whole thing like creation is the union of two things and Like what mark is saying? um our closest Like the only familiar familiarity we have to the the union of two things is physical Sex that humans have with each other The we don’t under we think that that’s the first principle. We think the first principle is is copulation of of two physical persons or animals Um, we fail to understand that that is not the first principle The first principle is is somewhere else and the the interaction between two human beings copulating is actually an expression of that first principle Yeah Yeah So that’s a misapprehension of primacy Materialism is the primacy of material. It’s wrong Material is not primary Right. The ethereal is primary not the material That’s why materialism doesn’t say there’s no ethereal stuff right doesn’t say there’s no Non-physical things it just says what’s primary are the physical things and that’s wrong Now it’s nice to see Now we’ve got our misfit Yo How’s it going Going good, man. How you doing? Pretty good. What you all talking about some sex This is your question talking about materialism. I don’t know why you can stuck on the dirty part of this but What is your If we laugh if well the thing it’s a it’s a it’s a trick question it’s actually a cosmic thing not a not a Kinky thing Okay. What’s the question? Well, we were just talking about how Creation as a result of the union of two things a higher ideal and and uh, um Higher ideal coming together with pure potential which is like genesis one genesis one and two And how we can’t really relate to that because every time we think about the union of two things we just immediately the union of two things Culminating into creation every time we think of that as materialists. We just immediately default to uh human human copulation so sex And we fail to understand that sex is actually like copy human copulation is actually A participation in that first principle and the first principle isn’t human copulation well said we we run into problems like what what mark was saying is like Uh, people think that frotto and sam like they’re obviously gay because they don’t understand that um They just don’t understand the relationships that they only understand relationships in material form So there’s no explanation for their relationship other than the fact that they’re getting physical stimulation from each other Yeah Yeah, that’s the way people are thinking about it right they’re not understanding the expression Which is the sex? Uh is different from where it where it where it emanates because they don’t believe in emanation. It’s all emergence Right back to that It’s all Decontextualized right? It’s like it’s like floating in no man’s land. Everything’s floating in no man’s land Sounds like nothing’s connected exactly. So we can’t yeah, but we can’t nothing’s nested in in anything else It’s just a horror show and it really does Fly all over the place, but you can see there’s a chapter in this called no man’s land talking about that What you can see you can see where the where the emergence causes a problem, right? Because again, it’s not constrained anymore by the emanation and so yeah, you’re frameless And it right What’s framelessness it’s postmodernism postmodernism just says your interpretation of moby dick and my interpretation of moby dick are equally valid No, they’re not That is just wrong. It’s false. It’s completely 100 false did you uh Did you see that? Um The video I put out today where at the end it talked about the uh, a little bit about the alphabet And There’s this there’s this part in there where this lady talks about uh, you could take a seed And put a seed in. Um, what is it? Uh, Like distilled water And that has no no minerals or anything in it, right? And and you could dissect the seed down and there will be none of these minerals in the actual seed but once you put the seed in this in this uh, Water and then the seed starts to germinate the seed actually Somehow minerals happen in the water after the fact, isn’t that weird? And I don’t know I was thinking about this emanation Emergence thing like there’s this miracle that happens and And that’s I don’t know. It’s weird. It’s like when The non-material becomes material or something Um, I don’t know what that’s an interesting point you make. I don’t know actually know what a miracle is I know what a miracle is to me a miracle to me is is actually that’s how I would describe a miracle A miracle is when those two things when I see those two things Uh come together when I see a bunch of chaos uh Manifests itself in in accordance to a higher ideal that comes from above that’s actually what I what is a miracle to me Yeah, i’m so used to being a materialist and seeing complete dead things everywhere and I see just random things Seemingly come together and cooperate towards a higher ideal. That’s what a miracle is to me. But yeah Even in the even like the bad there’s miracles that happen in the bad even in that sense, I mean like The miracles don’t have a good or a bad right they just are things that basically aren’t explainable through material It’s it’s incredible. I mean we have like, uh, I mean Honestly, even this the fact that we’re all in different parts of the world having this conversation using this weird ass Computer basically a crystal ball. It’s something I know it’s crazy cool Uh, I mean we could probably explain it to you But not much I mean at a certain point you get to a point where it’s like well How am I actually forming words because that seems to be a miracle? Yep Yeah, no, it’s there’s lots of miracles everywhere. That’s why people are like, I don’t believe in miracles. I’m like you must be dead How do you know? All the time You must be Today was a miracle was like 74 degrees out and like there were bumblebees everywhere and they were going crazy and flying around And I was like, this is a miracle And I wake up and there’s turtles on the on the you know out there on the uh on the log out front It’s like wow, that’s a miracle like why were they there? They’re not always there There’s no material reason why they should be on that log and not one of the others I I don’t know what’s going on something’s going on though Yeah, I try to I try to keep a real wide open aperture for miracles and then try to actually not only just recognize them but Integrate them in some way that’s useful You know, it’s kind of like the thing I think is ironic about miracles so-called Yeah, so called like Nihilistic content I think I don’t know. It’s the irony about nihilistic content is that there’s typically so much meaning in it that it’s frightening And that’s why I don’t think it’s really a It’s not a real accurate frame Anyways, sorry I’m too Conversational no, no, that’s interesting. It is interesting Yeah, there’s something about yeah like even a I mean because pachaud was talking about that that it was the post-modern No, what what was it? He said but all of this I think post-modernism and james joist made him really understand What what he was seeing and it was the same for me I was reading like french and german existentialist authors and that’s what really made me start to Figure things out, right? It’s almost like it’s almost like And then bishop maximus when he was talking to john verbecky. He said that going back and He had this halt in his in his um, his spiritual development and he said it was going back He decided finally to try to understand the greeks because he figured that since the church fathers were embedded within that world That it that it might help him Somehow see something that he had missed when he was reading the church fathers and he said that So he went back and he studied all of the greek philosophy much more closely and he said indeed When he went back and read the church fathers, it was again enlarging the context in a certain sense So it’s it’s interesting how I mean, I think it’s a point well taken we need to be a little you know, we’re so We’re so kind of oh, I don’t know narrow narrow World elizabeth that’s the closed world that we live in we get certainty Well, that’s fine. You have certainty when certainty you can’t have miracles by definition in a certain world. There’s no miracles There’s no potential there’s no expansion. There’s no value added Right in a closed world like if you’re stuck in the materialist if you’re stuck in that closed world If you’re thinking material is only the thing that If material is only the thing that that Primarily moves the world and there’s no prime mover in the world outside of the material Then you are stuck in the closed world where there is no potential and therefore no miracle and therefore no value can be added And your interaction with the world is fundamentally Narrowing every single time you Can’t see a lot of new things Yeah, you can feel it and I think that’s what shows you right? I mean when you when you start looking at emergence only Situations and people you you can feel it like boomy shroomy was saying there’s no energy there It it it if you have your eyes somewhat open you can you can notice what’s going on around you Chad you must have experienced that oh, yeah, I mean you see all time but like even thinking about like some of the Like here’s a good example of kind of a postmodern nihilistic novelist i’ve been I was for a while. There was uh listening to some corvick mccarthy books and There’s uh, like a couple of them. They’ve been described by people as nihilistic and I thought I don’t know man There’s this uh ton of meaning packed into there and there’s I mean, it’s it’s probably dark But in some sense if you leave reading between the lines of a lot of it There’s a lot of light in there and and then uh beyond that there’s a ton of context and and it like brings context to my own situation, so it helps me see kind of triangulate and and move either move away from a particular way of thinking or towards a better one or Even like maybe noticing some Some bad thinking in my own Life, you know like oh, but that’s yeah, that’s kind of me or whatever. So I think I don’t know. I just think that it’s People people I don’t think really are That strictly materialists I think that they are actually Just kind of frighteningly blind to things because it’s fucking terrifying Right And and like if you I don’t think you can do it for long and be honest You know But they try I’m sure they try I mean but there’s so much uh incongruence and and self self-deception involved Self-deception involved it takes a lot of energy to be a materialist. It’s ridiculous Right, right. It’s true It’s true. It’s a strange thing because it can it can It seems energy less. I guess I don’t know how that works But it seems like it slaps energy and and it takes energy, right? It’s it’s like a monster. It’s a monster That’s for sure Well, yeah, because you’re seeing and not seeing all at the same time so that’s a lot of Yeah, it burns up But if you don’t like uncertainty then you’re going to tend towards materialism because it takes away certain it takes away uncertainty It gives you certainty about the world Everything’s dead Yeah, it’s just dead if it’s just dead objective material it’s predictable you can control for everything Yep, yeah, but again If you try that it doesn’t work. That’s why i’m saying you can’t live there. You can’t work Right, there’s no objective material reality when you try to live an objective material reality you fail because it doesn’t exist And this is the only one our table is to move do we want our table legs to get up and walk away out of our living room? Right. Well, and this is the end of materialism materialism Stops being able to predict the world or once you realize it doesn’t predict the world Then you get now you’re scrambling and now you’re like, oh we need philosophy That’ll solve the philosophy doesn’t solve that problem at all. Should my table be dead? Your table should be dead Well, I I was just gonna stop in for a smoke and uh say hello and Hello, i’m gonna go at night night. All right. Nice to see you night night See you mean So cool So much fun, right people just drop in to say hello. It’s beautiful. It’s so beautiful. How you feeling mark? I I am I am at my wit’s end. I think Tired I need to go get my ecumenical cheese pizza and uh Yeah, no, it’s a great it was a bonga man I I think uh, I think yeah, you know, the only the only parting comment I wanted to make is you know Chad talked about triangulation triangulation is the process of orientation If you’re using a compass to orient you’re you’re creating a triangle And you want to go here right straight to the mountain and there’s something in your way. So you create a point over here Right, and then you go to that point as a way to get back to this point to create the triangle That’s what orienteering actually is Right, and so triangles need to be oriented pointed in the right direction. And that’s really what it’s all about Is is that interaction with orientation? That’s why it’s navigating patterns navigating is all about orienting. So Boomy shroomy, what’s your what’s your parting words here? Solo scriptora I think he means solo mushroom That’s my parting word Elizabeth what you got for us parting this was great fun. I certainly enjoy it. Thanks so much Yeah, no, i’m glad i’m glad you enjoy it. That’s that’s good. That gives me a reason to go on What you got for us ethan before we close the job? if you want a uh a a lesson on gnosticism If if reading genesis isn’t good enough for you go watch Fantasia the sorcerer’s apprentice. I watched that again today. I could not believe how genius that cartoon is The music’s great. Yeah Makes it worse worse genius like it’s not it’s it’s just gnosticism like that’s gnosticism That’s what it is. That’s all really that’s all you need to know like you don’t need to read Mickey mouse should have just taken the the broom and cleaned it up If he would have just stopped Yep, and not use magic. It’s just so rich and and deep like he he falls he falls asleep they they depict a spirit coming out of him and going up and And summoning like water and stuff on this clip. It’s just it’s perfect It’s just that is everything that we’re talking about go watch it like just look it up on youtube You can find it, you know or whatever watch it on disney plus fantasia Um sorcerer’s apprentice. It’s only like eight minutes long Seriously, go watch it. That’s great. Yeah, it’s everything No, that’s good. Yeah. Yeah, watch out for the gnosticism emergence is not good um, and and take responsibility for the reality you are knitting together when you When you hold together the ethereal heaven and the material earth because you’re responsible for that You need to you need to be aware of that Yes Yeah. Yeah. So, all right everybody. Well, we’ll try it again next week I think uh, I think we’ll be okay and I want to thank everybody for joining and I hope everybody enjoys and is enlightened by our Fun little interactions in these live streams and if there’s something in particular you want me to address Let me know i’ve got more notes and more videos and uh, I gotta get on that because i’ve been slacking So yeah, have a lovely night everyone. It’s great to see you night everybody night