https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=BvAWcj0ZjAc
And so what was it like going to teach at Grace Church School? Well, it was it was really nice because I was used to a corporate environment, I guess. I, you know, because of my time that I had done a previous job at HBO, I was a technical manager, it was a whole other career. And, you know, I was I was very concerned that I reported to the right people or, you know, what’s the structure, you know, and they were just like, well, you know, just you have colleagues and you can discuss things with them. And we’re not going to make you do anything. You can you can talk to us. It was it’s a very friendly environment. I mean, there were serious expectations, like, you know, and everyone took their jobs very seriously. But there really was a sense of belonging and community. They were very it was that was very welcoming, actually, and very energizing, I will say, because I wasn’t used to that. I didn’t expect it. And so I would be remain aloof from it, you know, at the beginning. Like, what’s what are these people? Why are they always smiling at me? Like, what’s going on? You know, like, I don’t know why I just gradually loosen up and, you know, it was kind of corny, but I would kind of go along with it. And I did kind of corny. Yeah. And I did actually, you know, I warmed up a little bit. I felt I did feel like I was a part of things and I was able to sort of transmit that to others, too. And so what happened over time? It was a very gradual change that, you know, I would say, well, within the first three years, one of the tenets of our our school was that every employee and every faculty and staff member had to attend a seminar called Undoing Racism. Mm hmm. That was your HR department, was it? Or who? Yeah, it was it was a you know, it was a mandate from the dean of faculty at the time and the that was a requirement. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, so I went to that. And that was a very interesting experience. You know, it’s hard to what would you say refuse a call to anti racism? Sure. No, I mean, do that. What kind of monster? Yeah. And I, you know, I went into it and I actually felt energized and I was converted, you know, I had a sort of, you know, I am white and I’m privileged and you’re right, we need to take care of this. And there were people in a circle and people of all different races and backgrounds, and it was facilitated. And, you know, later I looked back on it and I realized sort of how they. How they did it, they did it in a very interesting, seductive way. And what way was that? Well, you know, as I recall, they they started out. Well, there was sort of two parts. The first part was the history since, you know, the slave ships landed on American soil and then throughout time leading up to the present. And then they focused for the second half of the session, they focused on, you know, how to help a community that has been shaped by all of this. And very early in the very early in the session, they said, we want you to withhold any judgment of anyone’s choice or agency. Anyone, you know, any of, you know, the the minority black populations that we’re talking about here, we want you to simply bracket or put, you know, hold, hold, withhold any analysis of the choices that people make, because, you know, they that will often lead to a misunderstanding or insensitivity towards what’s happening. So why do you focus on that specifically, that issue specifically? Well, because, you know, it was as as they retold the history and as they talk about the present circumstances, they never actually revisited that. So you, you know, you’re you’re constantly focused on the oppressed population in in terms of what is acting upon it, and acting upon those individuals. And, you know, to me, that’s like. Denying a certain agency, right. But they never actually lifted the blinders off at the end. Like they they would put these everyone sort of acknowledged that they were going to go along with this at the beginning. And I was like, really, we’re going to do that. We’re going to treat people as less than human. Well, OK, I just it must be like a temporary thing. And why did you see that as treating them as less than human? I mean, I presume that the people on the other side of the fence would say, well, you know, we’re we’re we’re all caught like corks on the sea and in the throes of vast social movements over which we have little or no control. And and who are you to cast judgment on people who have been the relatively deprived in that regard compared to you? It’s possible to make a fairly stringent moral case that that’s the appropriate mode of behavior. But you were there was something in you that objected to that. And you remember that now. Yeah. Despite the fact that you said that you were energized by this and pulled in by it. Why do you think why do you think it caught you as well? Well, it was a social thing, right? It was it’s a people in a circle and people are talking about their experiences and people are saying, as a black person, I have this has happened to me. And at one point, they asked they actually, you know, it’s empathy, right? You care about people. You feel if you’re sitting face to face with someone, of course, you’re going to be I’m going to be sympathetic and empathetic. And people are narrating. You know, but the problem, I think, is generalizing that to groups and, you know, getting you to make a different set of assumptions about those groups based on a sort of, you know, selective way that the empathy is leveraged. I would say, well, there’s also the implicit there’s the implicit. What would you say the implicit perceptual and categorical structure that comes along with it, which is the a priori assumption that the appropriate classification for human beings is by group? Yeah. And that that that’s so implicit, but so pervasive that it in some sense never needs to be stated. And as soon as you assume that the group level is the appropriate level, then you’re bound to minimize or even forbid discussion of such things as individual agency. So there’s something if you believe in individual agency, there’s there’s some. Yeah, I mean, I guess I just about that. Yeah. And I don’t, you know, I I remember at one point they said, you know, what what do you like about being white? That was that was sort of a gotcha question that they asked the white people. Hmm. How did you answer that? Well, I mean, I’m trying to think of how it’s some of these questions. These questions seem to come up in our society right now that that no one’s ever asked, you know, like, well, justify marriage. It’s like, well, wait a sec. I don’t know how to justify it. We just sort of took that for granted and maybe that was appropriate. Right, right. And so it’s very hard when you put on the spot like that. OK, so you’re white. What’s so great about that? As far as you’re concerned. Well, I kind of knew what that I kind of knew what they were expecting. So I kind of tried to play games with it a little bit because I, you know, they they what they were trying to do, they’re trying to go through the embarrassment of saying, well, I there’s nothing special about me being white. There’s nothing special. But I was just like, no, it’s great. I walk into a room and everyone pays attention to me and everyone thinks I’m an expert. And I said it because I knew that it’s kind of what they wanted. But, you know, I I don’t usually feel that way, but I knew that’s kind of what they wanted. But then I said it to like proudly and then I made some other people upset. Like some people like, sounds like you really, really like being white. And I said, well, you know, I’m not that’s just how I’ve been socialized. And then it was turned into kind of an argument. And then the facilitator had to defend me because I actually had told him what he wanted to hear. And it turned into kind of a. A bit of a difficult moment. So I had to I had to say that that it was good to be white, but not be too happy about it.