https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=IjAGFeXOXsY
God, get here in hiding whom I do adore, As by these bare shadows shiver nothing more. See, Lord, at thy slowest blow, My spirit of heart, Lost, all lost in wonder, At the God of God. See, we can’t be placed in our envy, We seek our sister’s healing, That shall be believed. What God’s soul, the soul we take, O’er truth I do, To themselves he’s truly, For there’s nothing true. The cross of the Lord, the mother, The Son, the Holy Spirit, The Father, the Son, the Father, And humanity, Of all time and credence, Are only concretes, And of all our petty being, Are only penitents. The cross of the Lord, the Son, the Father, The Father, the Son, the Father, And of all our petty being, Are only concretes, And of all our petty being, Are only penitents. O Memorial, O Lord, O Lord, O Lord, O Lord, O Lord, O Lord, O Lord, O Lord, O Lord, O Lord, O Lord, Who is born to make the world A place of peace, And to make the whole world A place of peace. Jesus, O my Lord, How shall we be treated? How shall we be treated? How shall we be treated? I be sweetly spent, And be what I first foresaw. Someday to-day, Come ye face to face in light, And be blessed forever With thy glory side. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the News Studio. At the Bishop’s House in Fargo, North Dakota, I have returned from Canit Law Studies in Washington, D.C. And now I have access to my proper computer again in a private place to stream from, so now we can start doing this again. I want to thank Ted, if he’s out there, for kind of covering the Sunday night slot on the Rando’s United channel at the time that I was in Washington, D.C. I’m really glad he did that, and I was hoping that somebody would. And yeah, but I’m back, and maybe he’ll tune in tonight and say hi to all you folks. The Canit Law program that I’m in is a four-year program, so I just started it in June, and it’s June and July in Washington, D.C. at Catholic University of America. And I get six credits a month. I’m doing these four-week classes. It’s a lot of Canit Law all at once. And then I’ll be taking online classes throughout the year otherwise. The StreamYard link should be pinned, so go ahead and come on in. I don’t know what you guys want to talk about, so we’ll say hi to the people who’ve shown up here. Spatch is welcoming me back. Thank you. Laura appreciated the music that we have. Mark is yelling like a seven-year-old girl, so that’s cool. And tercium comparaciones. Heya, how you doing? So I just got back to Fargo on Tuesday. Yeah, long drive back from Washington, D.C. And then I started getting my room set up on Wednesday. I didn’t actually get into the office on Friday, which was interesting because hardly anybody was there on Friday. So I was able to just kind of focus on a few other things. Hello, Sandy. Good to see you too. Yeah. What else is going on? Oh, praise the Lord. Here he is. Adam, you’ve got your Sunday best on. Yes, I do indeed. I do indeed. Happy Feast of the Transfiguration. Same to you. Same to you. Yeah, it’s interesting that we didn’t have a proper feast day for that until the 11th century. Yeah, I didn’t even know that. Wow. And you can kind of tell the newer feast days, because for the most part they have much wordier prayers. Oh, really? It’s like when you go back to those ancient prayers from the old sacramentaries, they’re really tight. And I just don’t think they had that kind of level of comprehension of Latin by the 11th century. Yeah, yeah. Tended to be loquacious. Yeah. You want to explain that to her? I’m not in Ireland. I’m in Fremont, California. So I can actually be part of the live stream. Yes, it’s nice. It’s nice. Do you want to talk about what you’re doing in California? It’s job training. It’s nothing really that interesting. But what is interesting is during this time, I’m attending Mass. I founded a local Catholic church, and I attended the extraordinary forum today up in Oakland. And a family, I just introduced myself to some of the guys who were there, some of the, there was a father and his family, and he said, hey, yeah, you want to come along to the traditional Mass on Sunday? And we’re like, yeah, great. Well, we’ll give you a ride. And it’s like, wow, that’s great. So it was very nice of them. They live in Fremont and had a good day. I had a good day over there. I need, you know, I mean, I need my hat because my skin is not made for this Mediterranean style weather. Mediterranean style weather. Yeah, yeah. You’re used to Hibernia, right? Yes. That’s what the Romans named your country. It was the land of constant winter. Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So and it’s interesting to see how people, there have been times when caught out as being not from here, you know, a couple of times. Sometimes they didn’t, most of the time they didn’t really guess Ireland. I had to, you know, give them a little bit more hints. So they all thought you were English. So one person thought I was Scottish. Another person thought I was Australian. So I wanted one of the cashiers at Target. I got a shot for the week and I was at the cashier and I said, you know, how’s it going, mate? You know, like, like I did, like I just did there. And I think for him, it was just like a one to one correlation. He uses, mate, he’s probably Australian. I had to explain to him, no, I’m from Ireland. He’s like, oh, cool. Yeah. So what do you think of American stores? They’re big. They’re convenient. Very big, right? You like them? I like them. I like them. I mean, you cannot get a tire in Aldi in Ireland, you know, but you can get a tire in Walmart. I appreciate that. And it’s skimpy on the food, you know, however, I want to eat, you know, the treats that I loved as a child, like Pepper Ridge Farm. And, you know, they’re they’re Milano biscuits. I got them. They’re very big. I tried to go into Costco actually one of the days because I knew Costco from when I was a kid. I lived in America when I was from six months until three years old. So I knew that Costco existed. I knew that’s the place I want to go if I want to buy in bulk. I go to Costco and they’re like, sorry, you need a membership. And I’m like, well, well, that’s that’s me. You know, so we went to a Target or Walmart instead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Costco thing, the membership thing. All righty. I was just I I noticed that the big stores is kind of an American thing. So I was wondering what you thought about that. I’m wondering what you think about this. The Feast of the Transfiguration happens and then they drop the first transfiguring human light in Hiroshima on the same day. I don’t know. I don’t know. Yeah, all I can say is all I can say is. I’m not going to say anything to that. I can’t say anything to that. Yeah, no, I. So I was at two masses today. One of them was the mass that I celebrated the Latin Mass at noon at Shanley High School. And then it’s the celebration of Monsignor Laliberti’s 50th anniversary of ordination. And so he preached his own anniversary mass. And he brought that up. And it’s sort of like you have two lights that you can follow after. You can follow after the light that flashes and then fades. You can follow after the light that’s eternal. Mm hmm. Yeah, no, fair enough. Yeah, I wouldn’t have thought it that way. And it’s interesting to think as well where those bombs were dropped. We’re on the only major Christian cities in Japan. Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the only and they were their Catholic populations mostly, I think. Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, I don’t think Truman would have thought of that, but he’s not the only one who makes decisions ever. So hey, Corey, Corey, Corey was at the Chino Conference and also at the D.C. Conference. So greetings. Welcome to the live stream. This is sometimes there’s more people. Sometimes there’s not. Yeah. All right. Did you hear any? How was how was Canon Lawyer School? How was Canon Lawyer School? Give me give me the Cliffs Notes. Oh, it’s a lot of canon law all at once. So you you know, this is one of those things that you look at from the outside and you think, oh, yeah, this is just a cookbook. You put the ingredients in and you mix it all together. And then the the canon law comes out and then you get there and it’s like, oh, these people all debate each other, too. You know, and it’s it’s law. It’s real law. This is very old law as well. Right. You know, you’re dealing with with very old statutes or a very old history of those all of that. Right. But it’s it’s very old and it’s also kind of modern because we didn’t codify the church’s law until 1917 and that it was revised in 1983. And I don’t think we’re going to do a major revision again, at least not in my lifetime. Really? Yeah. Well, the the 17 code was very, very top down. So like every five years, the bishops had to write the Vatican asking for the faculties to do their job. Oh, whoa. Yeah. Right. And it’s like, well, OK, is this guy a bishop or not? You know? Yeah, that’s true. Paul VI started kind of lightening this stuff up in the in the in the 60s, kind of anticipating because it was it was January 25th, 1959. Pope John the 23rd announces the Roman Synod. OK. Announces a revision of the Code of Canon Law. OK. And the Second Vatican Council announced all three of those things at the same time. Yeah. And kind of through the council, they started all the six started anticipating some of the things that were going to come out in the the revised Code of Canon Law. That was one of them where it’s like, no, you just have the faculties to do your job because you’re a bishop, not because because kind of the model they were operating on is that bishops were middle level managers and Catholic incorporated. Yeah. Just taking orders from the CEO. And this is one of the things that, you know, when Father Eric says that he’s a huge fan of Vatican II, that I really mean is that we kind of brought the bishops back and like, like, no, they actually they have proper authority. This is their job. They’re all successors to the apostles. They’re not just taking orders from the pope and doing what he says. Well, when they codified that in 1917, that was a codification that does without necessarily necessarily mapped back in time or was it a kind of. So, I mean, it was done in like five years and they had a small team doing it. A brilliant candidate. But it was kind of of the time. Right. And we’re still kind of in the afterglow of Vatican One, which, you know, and some of the some of the more. Some of the more radical outremontanists, which, you know, the pope, the popes didn’t discourage that. So, so, yeah, it kind of kind of had the praxis of the time written into it. But also, there’s like this, it’s like this five volume set, and it goes canon by canon, it gives you all of the called the font as the sources of the different cannons. Yeah, it’s called Gasparis Fontes. It’s like this five volumes. He just wrote down all the laws that gave him all of these other laws. So it’s not like it was like this a historical drop from the sky. And this is how we’re doing things now. It was rooted in the in the tradition. But yeah, yeah, it was new. I’d be curious. I’d be curious. I’d be curious about how that that plays out in terms of like in the past, like hardly in 1700, hardly all the bishops had to write a letter to the pope being like, can I still be a bishop? It’s probably more like that. That was the practice of that was probably more like a letter. Here’s how it’s doing over here. Just wanted to let you know if they wrote those letters at all. Right. Yeah. Hey, Corey. Hello. You dropped the question here. Yeah, that’s kind of what I wanted to drop into. I was listening to Canon Law because I have I know almost nothing about it and I would love to hear about that, too. I know that there’s the only thing that I know is that there’s different laws for different rights, too, which is interesting. Yeah, there’s the code of Canon Law for the Eastern churches and the code of Canon Law for the Latin churches. And this is the funny thing is that the code of Canon Law for the Eastern churches is written in Latin because you couldn’t get you couldn’t get them to a range. I’ll agree on a language. Yeah. Well, yeah. You haven’t answered the question. Laura’s sung Morton Lourdeson. I also have. I love Morton Lourdeson. I was a choir kid from second grade all the way through college. Yeah, I am not familiar with this one. I know. Oh, my goodness. But I know that from the Mass of Ages documentary. Yeah. Yeah, I love that one, too. So it’s a neat thing. I realized I was kind of bummed out that I wasn’t raised on something akin to a mass once I once I learned what liturgy actually is and what it does. And then, you know, I was also bummed out that I wasn’t raised, you know, learning Latin. And then I realized I had an epiphany this week. I kind of was because I grew up singing different mass pieces in Latin. And like I know a teeny tiny bit of Latin and decent pronunciation because of like Morton Lourdeson and John Rutter and Mozart. And, you know, choirs, choirs don’t bother around with that dinky classical pronunciation. They know what sounds good. They know the ecclesial pronunciation of the Latin. That’s that’s beauty right there. We’re not. I listen, Adam. I don’t know about the historical providence of classical pronunciation, but I just refuse in my heart to believe that Julius Caesar said, when the weedy wiki. OK, look, I don’t know either at the same time. Maybe he did. And that’s OK. When the weedy wiki. That’s the way it’s supposed to sound. Yeah, I mean, that’s exactly how I mean. Look, that’s that’s Caesar. Maybe he maybe he did say when we we we key because it wouldn’t it wouldn’t have been as hard as what it wouldn’t have been a probably a hard word. It would probably have been somewhere closer to the book. But yeah, yeah, I think when it comes to that, I prefer the ecclesiastical pronunciation for music pieces just because you can’t you don’t want to play around. I’m not sure what Roman music at the time of Caesar even sounded like. But it probably yeah, I don’t probably didn’t sound all that great. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, like all of that Renaissance polyphony was that was the way they would have pronounced it. Yeah. Oh, mind you, mystery. Is that the one that starts? Oh, you, mystery. I might have sang that one too, Laura. So yeah, it’s it’s it’s longer. It’s it’s it’s you can actually you know, it reminds me of Father Eric. If you’ve ever watched if you’ve ever watched this indie movie called Lord of the Rings, I don’t it’s done by the small New Zealand director. He was a guy who did those really cheesy horror movies in the early 90s, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Peter Jackson. Yeah, yeah, I’ve heard of it. Yeah, yeah. They had some cartoons of it. Yeah, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah, cartoons as well. I just I got into that mode where I was like, oh, did you know? And then I’m like, of course he knew that I just I just lead this to it. What the oh, Maggie, Monsieur reminds me of in terms of how they do it is some of the music they have for Lord of the Rings, because if you didn’t notice like, yeah, they a lot of the chant in there, it’s not just kind of vowels. It’s actually Eldish. So they’re singing in Eldish and the and the words have meaning. And in so in that sense, it’s actually like, and chat and but in perspective, it’s not really like a word. And chat and in particularly, oh, Magna Mysterium, that reminds me of a lot of the stuff coming out of Lord of the Rings. There’s still being said, but because polyphony, it’s because, you know, oh, and then my, you know, and so, yeah, I think I know there’s another setting to that. I can send you the one unless unless you’ve seen it because it’s on the Mass of Ages, the second episode. It’s the it’s the it’s the ending, the ending him. I haven’t seen Mass of Ages. I have not. Yeah, yeah, I feel wickedly underdressed now. All of you are set up. That’s the funny thing about these webcams, right? It’s like we’re all beaming right from our houses here. So I saw Adam was coming in and I was like, I have to put on a suit jacket just out of respect. It’s Catholicism after all. And I even brush my teeth. Oh, that’s great. Thank you. I appreciate that utterly unnecessary gesture of brushing your teeth. Oh, my. Well, I’m going to go back and spend some time with my wife, but I just wanted to log on and say hi. I’m glad you traveled safe, Father. Thank you. Thank you, Adam and Andre. Yeah, yeah, you came on, Corey. Thank you, Corey. I’ll see you around. How do you log off? That’s nice. Leaves Studio. The bottom. The bottom. He found it. I was going to kick him if it took too long. But how are you doing, Andre? Good. Just been vibing off the last live stream that we did. And was in Discord and all of a sudden both Mark and Adam went, oh, Father, Eric’s about to start. We’ve got to go. And I’m like, oh, when’s it on? And he’s like, now. And I’m like, oh, I might come. You’re certainly invited. Well, Adam had just been describing to me what the Latin Mass was. And the way it was prefaced originally was you stand up a lot, you kneel a lot, and then you sit a lot. And my mind goes. That was Mark. Yeah, sorry, that was Mark. And I’m like, religion? And then Adam goes, no, no, let me do like a crib notes for you. And he goes through basically, and it says it in the Latin as well when he doesn’t have to. And I’m like, oh, it completely makes sense to me now like what it is. Not 100%, but like it’s procession, it’s ritual, it’s the hierarchy and it’s the blessing. Each thing’s connected to each other. And for someone who had no idea what Mass was, I certainly have a good idea now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, there’s no substituting for actually showing up, obviously. That’s what Sally Jo said to me. She said, you know, you can always show up. Not knowing what it is, like I don’t really want to just show up and be like, I’m here for Mass. It’s hard, because I went from the Nova Sordo to the Extraordinary Forum. And so it was a little easier because you knew the major beats that were happening. But yeah, that’s it. I mean, now at least you have an idea, you know, even just if it’s a roadmap, because obviously, you know, when the rubber hits the road, it’s like it’s going to be, when you’re participating, it’s going to be different. But yeah. Yeah, there’s a spiritual cadence to it, I think. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, you just, you don’t sit in the first row. You watch what other people around you are doing, and most of them are there to pray, to criticize strangers. So, and frankly, at your average Latin Mass parish, there’s going to be a ton of kids there. So, yes, like the odds of you being more disruptive than the one family on the right row is very, very slim. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I celebrated it today. It’s just a lot of work for the priest, and I’m happy about that, right? I’m happy to do the work, but I’m like, the inside of my cassock is kind of drenched at the end of it because I’ve got to go and do all this stuff, and I got all these heavy vestments on and chanting, and there’s a million things to remember, which isn’t really the way it feels with the novus ordo. It’s just a lot simpler and more streamlined. So, yeah. Andrew, what’s up? Does it feel like more work to remember what to say, or is it more work to, like, for all the efforts done, like the different movements? It’s the movements. It’s the movements, especially when you’ve got to coordinate with the altar boys and the musicians and all of that. There’s a lot more genuflecting. There’s a lot more kissing the altar. A lot more little gestures you’ve got to throw in there, and on top of that, more prayers that you do in Latin. But they put these altar cards up there. That’s got most of the prayers that you need to know written down, so you don’t have to have it all up here or get it all from the book. The altar cards, especially when they’re properly designed, so that the prayers are where you need them in the part of the mass that you’re at. Yeah. Yeah. But you know what? It’s like, that’s what I’m ordained for. I’m here to do my job, and the people are very grateful, you know, with the current situation of the world to have access to this. They’re quite hardy in showing their gratitude, so that makes it easier. Speaking of sweating and divestments, how are you doing, Andrew? Are you a deacon yet? No, definitely not. Not a deacon yet. Come on. We’ve got to get you tonsured. Dude, I have been to confession like once. I do not think I should be a deacon at all. Okay. Yeah. You’re not old enough to be a deacon, actually. 25. 25 and older. Really? 23. 23. It’s 25 for priesthood, but for the permanent, the accurate in the United States is 35. That’s if you have a family, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or even if you don’t have a family, but you don’t want to be a priest. There’s a few permanent deacons out there. They’re not all that common, though. Usually it’s gentlemen with a family. Yeah, because you would just if you were a celibate deacon, at least keep the door open for maybe ordination. Who knows? Maybe. I don’t know. I’m not planning. I’m on the priesthood anyways. Yeah. Yeah. So are you in school right now, Andrew? I am on my last day of break. Okay. And you’re back to school tomorrow. Yeah. Okay. It’ll be fun. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I’m back in school now. Greg, I tell you what, it’s a world of difference between seminary and going to school as a priest, because in seminary, you’re living in the fishbowl, you know, constantly being evaluated and all of that. And you’ve got an aurarium that you’ve got to keep and all this. And then when you’re a priest, it’s like, yeah, classes at 830. Be there or be square. Yeah. You know, the parish I was staying at, they would have me say a few masses and hear confessions, that sort of thing. But it’s a small parish that’s got a big rectory and lots of priests living there. So it’s not like it was not like it was overly intense. So it’s kind of like, oh, I’m being treated like an adult now. This is odd. Wow. What’s the sort of study culture like for priesthood? Have you got frats in the theological term? Yeah, fraternitas. That means fraternity. Yeah, what is study culture like? I mean, so basically, everybody at Kynan Law School is there because their bishop is asking them to study Kynan Law. And so there’s not like a ton of positions in Kynan Law, but there’s also not a ton of competition because, you know, most bishops aren’t going to have more Kynan lawyers than they need. So my class in the four-year program is, I think, 16 priests and one laywoman. So there’s not a whole lot of like cutthroat competition, trying to smack each other down. People are basically just there because they’re being asked to do this. And that’s just fine. And so it ends up being a pretty relaxed, collaborative environment. I didn’t find the classes all that challenging either. Maybe that’s just great inflation continuing to be a thing. It’s even in the church. It’s even in the church now. You know, at the end of it, though, at the end of it, there’s a one-hour comprehensive exam, which one of our very brilliant professors said was the most uncomfortable hour of his life. So at least there’s that threshold. You sit down, you’ve got three examiners and unannotated code. You just have to answer the questions. So that’s what I have to look forward to. So I don’t know if that does that answer your question, Andre? Yeah, I mean, pretty much like I didn’t think that would be like frat parties in that style. Like, obviously quite a lot smaller. But I mean, is there a class clown in your class? Is it like different cliques? I’m the class clown. But, you know, like we’ve got one of my classmates has been a priest for 17 years now, right? Like, we’re all just pretty well about business while we’re there. Yeah. Yeah. But we still have fun. I was actually the guy who would be like, hey, we’re going to meet at this pub at this time. So people show up, you know, and people are like, hey, father, thanks for doing that. I’m like, I literally just sent out an email and went to the pub closest to the place that I’m staying. I don’t feel like I did all that much. I just took the initiative. Sometimes that’s all it takes, though. Yeah. Other people aren’t going to do it. They’re just expecting others to. I’ll be the guy, you know, and if you don’t like where we go, then you just send out an email. I’ll probably just show up. Yeah. Yeah. I got to make dinner. Go make dinner. You’re a growing boy, Andre. It’s been good seeing you. Good to see you too. Andre, God bless. I went to a picnic on Wednesday night and people were complaining about how hot it was and it felt really good in comparison to Maryland, which was just very muggy the entirety of July. So the temp in North Dakota this week is delightful. We got like three inches of rain yesterday. Yeah, that’s freezing. I am. What temperature is it in? In freedom units so I can conduct it for you. No, no. Freedom units. Is that what you’re calling it now? 51 Fahrenheit at the moment. Right here in Melbourne. I don’t even know what that is. And 51 Fahrenheit is 11 Celsius. And it’s spring. It’s spring for you guys there. Yeah, spring’s supposed to be a bit warmer. Oh, okay. It’s not. It’s just refusing. It doesn’t want to have any of it. Yeah, well, that’s coming for me soon. It’s going to be October before you know it. Oh no. Already? Yep. Yep. But it’s August. August never lasts all that long. And February takes at least three months. It’s the longest month of the year. Yeah. You’re in North Dakota? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Longest month of the year, no doubt. I don’t care what the calendar says. But we’re in a what? We’re in a La Nina now, right? Or was it a… which one are we in? Do you guys know? I think we’re getting an El Nino, apparently. Yeah. Whichever one that we’re in, it makes for a more mild winter in North Dakota. So two thumbs up on that. How you doing, Mark? Good. Good. I think we need some update on a Catholic town, which I didn’t know was a thing, and the conference, right? Right. Because that’s also sort of important. Just those two things sort of come together nicely, too. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you mean by Catholic town? Give me your impressions of it. Yeah. So I mean, there’s this whole section of Washington, D.C., which, by the way, do not ever drive a car in or near, ever. Just don’t even… it’s a no. I drove through six miles of New York City, and that was a war zone. I mean, it was like, holy… and cars doing crazy. And then I got to D.C., and I think I drove two miles in D.C., and I was traumatized for life. I have PTSD now, and it’s bad. It’s bad. Yeah. No, D.C. is way worse than New York. New York City is like a cakewalk comparison. But you get there, and there’s all these Catholic buildings in this one section of the city. And you’re walking through these nice, really nice neighborhoods, and there’s some new buildings going up. And then there’s Catholic University, and there’s a big cathedral, and there’s a monastery, and there’s another monastery, and there’s another thing, and then there’s a church with a rectory. It was like, wow, and it’s all this Catholic-y stuff all in one place. In New England, we don’t have anything like that. There’s plenty of Catholic churches, but there’s no clusters of Catholic things. And this is just all the Catholic things that you could Catholic-y think about. And they’re all in this block. And it’s like, whoa, what is going on here? And I’ve never seen anything like that. So that was pretty cool. And then everywhere we went, of course, everybody knew you. We just have this concomitant. Everybody knows this guy. They’re not just like, you know, normally it’s like, oh, the father, because he’s got the outfit on. But no, no, no, they know exactly who you are. That was kind of interesting. I don’t recall meeting anybody who knew who I was. Where was this? Yeah, at the John Paul II. Oh, yeah, yeah. John Paul, who was working at the desk. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, the whole story behind that is that they built the Catholic University of America the late 19th century there. And lots of people wanted to be near that. So they just started building near that. I guess that part of D.C. hadn’t been built up yet. So the no nothing-ism was kind of on the decline. And so we were actually allowed to build stuff. So if I was going to be a critical theorist about it, I’d say that that was when Catholics started becoming whites. Maybe. Never mind the Irish, right? Yeah. And then I thought it was interesting the fact that the conference organizers this time were Catholic. Marcus and Joe. So we could go. They had the Christ Community and Renewing Culture Conference. And it’s the first one of these conferences that’s actually had Catholics on stage. I guess that’s a big deal to people. And so. Yeah, yeah. And it’s the Catholics. You know, I feel like the underrated skill of Catholics is to actually organize things across long distances. So you’d never hear about it in the media. But from 1972 to 2022, every year, Washington, D.C., we get shut down in January for the March for Life. It was like the largest annual. Well, we’ll call it a protest. We’ll call it a protest. Right. Our largest annual protest. Just absolutely. It’s like the locals would get out of town. Everybody would, you know, they rent beds out or they figure out how they’re just going to accommodate these huge crowds that would swell in every day. And if you I like the way Richard Rowland told this, I think it was on. Was it on Gris’s channel? He said that I can’t remember whose conversation it was, but it said that basically the Catholics shamed the evangelicals and the Baptists in the 1980s into being pro-life. Right. Well, very much. All of that is a very long way of saying that. Yeah, yeah. It’s just it’s nice to have that Catholic touch at the organization. You know, it’s like, oh, we’ve got the monastery, you know, and you know, you guys could be in the conference room there and you can go into the garden and do your little poetry walk there. Yeah, just just take advantage of the infrastructure, having those connections. So and the talks, I thought were very good. They’re not recorded, so you’re going to I didn’t take notes, so you’re going to get very hazy recollections as to what was actually said. But it was I think, Mark, that you would be a fan of what they were talking about. It was very it seemed kind of like they wanted to start really leaning into participation more. Yeah. Right. Like they did. I mean, this conference, right, we you know, we sort of infamous, I guess, right, for saying that conversation makes everything worse. Right. So what did we do? We opened with the song. And I was like, well, there’s your language and your speech and your community and being together. And no one’s talking to another other person. That’s not that’s not a conversation at all. But they were they were church hymns. So we were talking to God. But yes, yeah, I mean, sure, I can make all kinds of weird arguments around you’re always doing that or whatever. But the point being that there’s still speech, but it’s not any type. Like you wouldn’t classify that as conversation like nobody would. Right. So that was one of the sort of solutions. The other the other thing I thought that was nice that came out was Michael Martin talking about how he had these celebrations at his farm. And then he opened them up to everybody. So like, you know, like 60 people at May Day unexpectedly. Right. And people participated. Yes, that’s exactly because I think the problem the problem that I was pointing out on the first day was you guys are talking about these things as though they’re a single individual’s relationship with something else. That’s not community. And that’s not culture. Right. Culture and community are all about groups of people relating to other groups of people. Right. Or other people, other multiple people within the group. Right. It’s not a how do I fit into X. Right. That’s a bad way to think about it. It’s how do we all fit together in communion. Right. Like that’s that’s the way to think about it. And then, you know, what do you what do you do to do that? And I was talking to Akira today because I went over the Orthodox Church today. She wanted me to she wanted me to show up for various good reasons. So, yeah, it being able to figure out that there’s a language that we’re using that isn’t, you know, that isn’t sufficient to describe what we’re talking about. I think it’s significant. And I did. I kind of like that. That answer. And the other you know, the other thing, of course, that stood out for me was was Joe describing silence and the importance of silence. And, you know, me then pointing out that now what you’re describing is space and silence plays into that. Like, I thought that was really significant because that’s you know, these are things that are missing right in the creation of community and culture. And I was like, wow, this is really good. Like, this is really interesting. Noise is crowding everything out and you don’t have space to be with others. Right. It’s like, yes, that’s what it is. It’s not it’s not the silence. Silence gives you the discernment to create the space to get the silence. Crowds out noise. Right. And then and now all of a sudden you have space and you can and you can engage at a different level. And so for me, that was a very rich conference, especially with the poetry memorization technique and that with the music, the poetry memorization. Right. We had a little mini. Well, we broke out estuaries, which I’m still not a fan of. I can see all the problems. So clear to me. But but but and I liked also the point that you made to to point out that there’s a difference between the two. Right. And I liked also the point you made to to Paul VanderKlaai about the the extra hierarchy. Right. With the Protestants are very, very flat. You’ve got that sort of that extra hierarchy going. You never do you never do an estuary event in a church. And so, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s too churchy. Like even he said that. No, we never do it here. It’s like, wow, why is what you know, why is that? That’s so it because it’s a much deeper hierarchy. There’s more vertical causality if you want to get all the. Yeah. Yeah. So that for me, I mean, I thought that was very rich and it was small. I thought like 35 of us there or something. Something like that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The thing about a small conference is that it was small. Well, we don’t know everybody. You don’t have to go for the big we’re going to get 300 people together in a conference room and we’re going to get the biggest names. You know, those. Yeah, those are the people that want agreement. Right. They want they want a big tribe. It’s like, no, I would rather have, you know, small groups forming communities and getting together and, you know, being the way they’re going to be together. Hey, Emma. Good to see you. Hey, good to see you. I know it was just you and Ted last week. I wasn’t able to make it. I know. And I was driving. So that was fun. I was in Mackinac City. That talk, though. Oh, my goodness. And Ted’s like, oh, you gave me an insight. I’m like, no, you gave me the insight. I just added to it. I’ll buy kitty. She doesn’t want to be a cast like never before. My cat is very mad at us for being gone all week. So every so often she’ll like she’ll refuse to sit on my lap and everything. She doesn’t actually want attention. She just wants to walk around the apartment and yell at us for daring to have been gone. I thought cats didn’t care. There’s a lot she does. They both care and they don’t care. Like every time we get back from a trip, she pulls this. They do asserting a thing. They show you how much they don’t care, but then they show you the opposite as well. So they stride around. They go, I don’t need you. Then they’ll go, no, I need you. I need my food right now in the middle of the ball, not on the outside. Wow. Yeah, that’s why I don’t have a cat. Yeah. I don’t believe in having wild animals inside the house. They’re barely domesticated. I’m barely domesticated. I just appreciate another a lot lower maintenance than dogs. Yeah, but they’ll eat you if you die in the house, whereas the dog will just stay by until it dies. I wonder how true that actually is. The dogs might be a little bit more aggressive. I wonder how true that actually is. The dogs not eating you. The cats apparently eat people. There’s been recorded cases of cats eating their own faces. I feel like dogs definitely would too though. Yeah, well, I mean, I guess your cat has convinced you of this falsehood. Good boys don’t eat their masters. I never had a dog. What’s it called? Toxoplasmosis? Yeah. It’s inside your head, makes you crazy. That’s right. That’s right. Apparently most French people have it. Yeah, well that explains it. That explains the French. Because in addition to cats, it also passes through undercooked meat. Oh, there we go. Raw or undercooked meat. Yeah. Apparently it can make you a bad driver and also make men more aggressive. Mark, I’m looking at you. I know, really. Except I’m a really good driver. Well, I mean, you were streaming on Discord on your phone while striving, so I sort of don’t believe that. I do that all the time and I don’t get into accidents. I must be a really good driver. Confirmed. That we say. Well, you’d see the accident, believe me. Corey claims Priam’s dogs ate him after he died, so in the Iliad. Yeah, I think that’s the exception. I think that exception proves the rule. That’s like, they have bothered to tell us that the dogs ate them. It depends on the dog, though. Like, you got wild, wild war dogs. Like, who knows what’s going to happen? German Shepherd. Yeah. Probably. Jack Russell, probably not. I think it’s a dog slander, OK? Man’s best friend would not do this, except if you brought them towards it. And basically, basically the rule is cats eat you and would probably watch you die and do nothing. Dogs go down. What could they do there, Adam? What is the cat going to do to stop you from dying? The dog is my tough guy, all right? I mean, I’m with Adam. It’s not the cat’s fault. They weigh a max of like 20 pounds as a species. Yeah, but they got the claws. They have the claws. They can go in for the kill. There’s an old saying, never corner a cat. Right. There you go. They go crazy. I haven’t been able to so far. Cory’s got a point there in the comments, Father Eric. I like that point he made, yeah. If you don’t have wild war dogs, you really have dogs. I mean, I usually make the whole real dog thing a matter of size, right? So, you know, if your dog is the surise of a burrito from Chipotle, it’s not really a dog. It’s a glorified hamster. It’s a glorified hamburger. So what’s the smallest a real dog can be? A chihuahua? No, no, real dog. If you’ve got a real dog that’s about that big. They gotta be, I like to be sure. A shepherd, a terrier. Kelpie. I have no idea how much dogs weigh, so I’m just going to go with whatever Mark says. So is a corgi a real dog? No. The legs are too short. Definitely not. But do you know why their legs are too short? So they can do their job. Which is? Hurting cattle. They’re short so the cows can’t kick them. The kicks go over them. I guess if I ever saw a corgi actually herding cattle or a dachshund actually going into the ground and digging up moles, I would respect them. Okay, fair enough. You take them away from what they’re supposed to be and just pamper them because you’re not having kids. And here we see the real problem with the dogs. Yeah, yeah. Hang on, hang on. That only explodes with cats. No, no, it’s worse with cats for sure. Yeah, it is worse with cats. But I got a story about a dog. I got a story about my first dog, Fudge, who was a Jack Russell dachshund crossbreed. And this is just to go to show, like, we do pamper the dogs. We are, we are. I don’t know what dogs will look, you know, the way you ever see those pictures of what dogs looked like 100 years ago versus what they look like today? Well, I don’t know. Well, okay. Well, like, if you look at a Jack Russell, for instance, you can see they’re kind of more muscly and, you know, German Shepherds, for instance, don’t have the, like, horribly, you know, shaped back legs so that it gives them back problems. Yeah, I don’t know how much that gets worse in the next 100 years. But what I will say is, is that Fudge, who was Jack Russell dachshund crossbreed, when he, there was a rat in a pile of wood. It’s on my back garden. And he just like, it was, it was like, you know, his genetics were kicking in. There you go. Right. Exactly. Yeah, no, exactly. And he got, he got the rat. He got the rat. And he looked so proud as he stood over the little rat. He eventually got the rat. Like, he’s there all day. And he just looked so proud. And I’m like, that, that is a happy dog. That is a dog that is fulfilling his purpose. And it’s like, you know, in 100 years, is that going to happen? You know, I don’t know what monstrosities we will be created on account of dogs basically being not domesticated, but kept as, yeah, like kind of like children or growing egos. Yeah. They’ll stop being self-referential after 100 years. Get into irony. Yes. Good example of that is the pug. That’s the first dog I thought, looked at and thought of a burrito from Chipotle. If a burrito from Chipotle looked like that, I wouldn’t eat a Chipotle. I just made the dimensions of it, you know. Mini pugs. Yeah, they aren’t dogs. Yeah, well, the pugs are brachiocephalic. So that means like, you know, when dogs do the thing with their ears when they’re confused, so they can get more vision to the humans to take in more visual information when they can’t work out what’s going on. So they’re getting more visual cues. And the pug being brachiocephalic, because its nose is so short, can’t do that. So it’s constantly got its bug eyes just going like that. And if it doesn’t understand, it just goes and just waits for more things to come in. And it’s just always going to have that dumb look on its face. Yeah. I don’t get it. I don’t get it at all. Yeah. How do we get on the dogs? Cats versus dogs, I think. Somebody’s cat walked across the screen. That’s what happened. Yeah, I picked up my cat. And then I ran away. And now she’s sitting behind the laptop again, just huddled. Probably because there’s warm air blowing up from the back of it. Yeah, she does do that. She finds little spots. Yeah. Oh, goodness. Bye, Corey. I’m sorry I didn’t answer your question about sociology, but just wait till you’re older. What was his question about sociology? I still don’t understand the sociology stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Should young Catholics look into it or is that an avoid until you’re old enough one? Yeah, I don’t. What defines a young Catholic? I’m skeptical about this whole sociology thing from the from the self professed Christian anarchists. I’ve already got some interesting framing happening there. Yeah, yeah. I don’t know. I feel like it’s much ado about nothing. Yeah, yeah, you should just pray the rosary and go to church and not worry about it. Corey is a neophyte, a neophyte Catholic confirmed this year. So you can go ahead and claim the title of being a young Catholic there. Corey is awesome too, by the way. I can confirm this in person. Yes, great. Corey. His talk about Out of the Silent Planet or whichever one. I guess they did Paralandra with Ted was fantastic. Yeah. And then what Laura, Corey and I had coffee after Sunday morning mass in D.C. last weekend and Mark watched us drink it. Yeah, I was the loyal dog of the group. Yeah, I don’t really know what this is, Pizani, so I’m not going to I’m not going to wade into it too much. It’s some Russian thing as far as I can tell. For me, for me, I’m just going to speak for me here. It probably goes on the heresy shelf. Just, you know, just out there. I tell you what, like Michael Martin, he said a lot of things that I really loved, a lot of things that I really just wanted to dive right into. But he was super sloppy with theological language. Like there was one thing where I was like, Nate, is this actually like what you guys believe? And he’s like, no, no, no, no, I wouldn’t put it that way. OK, thank you, Nate. That’s. I was much calmer and happier after Nate said, yeah, I would not have said it that way. That was that was not good. Yeah. Yeah, some people are not very precise. And I think Mr. Martin would pride himself in not being precise, frankly. Yeah, that’s why he is a what a literature professor and a small farmer rather than a priest. Right. You can get away with that. You can get away with that. So, yeah, yeah, I know that. I know that Anselman doesn’t like it, that he just thinks it’s heresy and needs to be gotten rid of. So. Anselman has a lot of very strong opinions. He does have a lot of things, but he is consistent. He’s consistently consistent. So he’s admirable. He believes what he believes. So it at least gives you something to navigate against. Right. And it’s correct. Communication doesn’t mean you have to agree with everything that he says, but that navigation can be very useful. No. Hi, Chad. Chad has entered the chat. Hello, I was taking a sip of my scotch there. Nice. You’re in Tosta. I thought that the other thing about the conference was was, of course, running into, you know, not only Michael Martin. I love some of the stuff. I love some of the stuff he says, but also meeting Nate finally, Nate Heil. That was nice. And then I don’t know about you, Father Eric, but if if Nate, if Nate’s report that the lunch we have with him was his leftovers, then I am clearly not worthy to eat his non leftover food. Yeah, yeah. Me, Mark and Joseph had lunch at Nate’s Airbnb. He had a lot of food. I went back for seconds and I don’t think he mind that. Yeah, yeah. I need to mute you. I don’t want to hear those thinking cats on my stream. Leftovers were pretty yummy, though. I mean, that was that was some really delicious. Yeah, I think I think Nate knows his way around the kitchen, that’s for sure. It was nice to meet Joseph in person, too. Yeah, yeah, that was great. Yeah, no, it’s a wonderful picture on Discord. Yeah. It’s too bad that whole Sabbath dinner didn’t didn’t work out. Yeah, but we got lucky because we had to go get Liz and her plane get sent to the wrong place. Yeah, yeah, we we went to go pick up Laura from the from Reagan Airport and this huge storm rolled into D.C. and her plane got redirected to Virginia. Oh, my goodness. And so at that point, Mark and I are like, OK, we just need to go get supper. And then we got back just in time to just as she had gotten off the plane and gotten out of that. It was it was like I’ve been delayed at airports and I’ve had to like circle the airport for a while, but I’ve never had to land at another airport, mostly because it wouldn’t be that many options around here. But I guess they probably did it to save fuel. Oh, that’s the only reason I can think to do that, because you’re not making the customers happy when you end up in Richmond versus Washington, D.C. But you will when you land, turn the engines off, fuels expensive. So, yeah, maybe. Well, plus, I don’t know how circular they could have flown that plane because those storms were kind of all over the place at the time. And that’s what they were avoiding were the storms more than anything. So your cat still meowing, Emma? She’s settling down now, I think. She’ll probably wait another like 20 minutes and then start up again for a minute or maybe I’ll get lucky and Colin will finish his thing and come out. And that’s where she’s really yelling about because she doesn’t want me to pet her. She wants Colin to pet. Is Colin better at petting? I don’t know. It’s the funniest thing because this cat was originally his mother’s cat or his really originally his sister’s cat. And she would not pay any attention to him for 10 years. Then his mom gave her to me and she and I had a year together before Colin and I got married because I was living on my own. So it was just me and my cat. And he was out in Arizona. Then he moves in with us afterwards and she is all of a sudden like obsessed with him. Knows him for 10 years, lives with me for a year. Now he’s like the best person. He’s her favorite person. He’s the best guy she’s ever met. It’s the weirdest thing and it doesn’t make any sense. Cat logic. OK. Yeah, cat logic is no lie. We are not ruled by logic, reason and rationality. Although if you were, you’d be more like Ted. How you doing Ted? It’s good to see you. Hey Ted. I try to be ruled by like reason like St. Thomas Aquinas was not the sort of nonsense rationality that people are spewing these days. Final Cause? I think our boy Tommy was a Final Cause guy. He was huge on Final Cause. He had levels of Final Cause that we could only aspire to. This is so true. Is that why he loved Ted? Hold on. I don’t know Mark, have you come up with an argument from God’s existence based on Final Cause? I bet I could. I haven’t really thought about it because that’s not my wheelhouse, but I think I could do that. He took Final Causality as an axiom for that argument. I could only aspire to having Final Causality as an axiom of my mental furniture. The more interesting question is can you use the single axiom of being is good and derive everything else? And I think you actually can, but I hesitate to think about how hard that would be. Being is good. It would be good to have a sofa. So I’ll have a sofa. It would be into being. There’s the sofa. And you just do that for everything else. Now you have everything. So Mark, I was just listening to this and Father Eric, I was listening to a Thomistic Institute lecture on this stuff and the Dominican was saying that when like the Thomists say that being is good, they don’t mean like equality of being is good, but that being and good are actually interchangeable terms. Yeah, right. He said it took me five years, like five or ten years to finally understand what’s going on. And it was actually this profound process of healing to understand what was going on there. And then the lecture was basically on happiness. And his whole point is that you can only be happy if you are pursuing your final cause and happiness are for a person, right? For a personal being, they’re completely interrelated. Like the dog and the rat that Adam was talking about earlier, right? It’s not just people, it’s being. Well, one of the things that was there’s some really interesting things he was talking about, like St. Thomas brings up, like, what is it virtual? Is it virtual causes, Father, where it’s like if you’re driving, say you’re driving to work, like the final cause of that drive is to get to work. But like you don’t have to be like consciously thinking about the fact that you’re trying to get to work. Like you’re kind of you’re on the ride with that cause. And so this notion of pursuing God is like union with God as your final cause doesn’t actually mean that you’re, say, consciously aware of pursuing God all the time, because it can become an orient. The thing that orients all of your actions, whether or not you’re conscious of it. It sounds like you’re looking for virtual intention, virtual intention. Thank you. Yeah, because that comes up in sacramental theology, because the minister of the sacrament needs to have at least virtual intention. So you’ve made the intention to do this thing and you haven’t made an action against it. So it’s still it’s still operating there. Is it like being ordained that basically? Yeah, right. Or celebrating sacraments, you know, you at least have to have some level of intention of of doing this. So if I get distracted when I’m celebrating mass, of course, it never happens. But let’s just imagine such a thing could happen. Right. As long as I as long as I say the words, no matter what is going on here, because I had that intention to celebrate mass, the mass still happens. Right. And there’s some most of the sacraments you need to have at least virtual intention to receive, but not anointing of the sick, because you can get that one while you’re unconscious. And so even just a habitual intention is enough. But yeah, you can apply that to the way you just live your life. Right. And it’s like you’re you’re disassembling and reassembling carburetors because that’s your job. You’re a hobby car person, let’s say you can do that for God, even if you’re not explicitly thinking about God while you’re got all the little parts. And then sometimes you can do it more explicitly for God by helping out friends stuck in a tight spot. Yeah, it becomes different. How is virtual intention different from just intention? Yeah, so an actual intention is at the moment that you’re performing an action, you know exactly what you’re doing. And let’s say it’s got your full attention, whereas the virtual intention is you made a decision to do this. But when you actually get into it, your mind might be distracted on something else, but you still can perform the action. Now, maybe, Mark, you’ve never been distracted in your life. Never. That’s a post-hoc description like propaganda. Could that describe muscle memory in a way? Because you have an intention that the muscle memory takes over. You’re not consciously moving every single muscle. Yeah, it could describe a lot of things in hindsight. I’m not sure. It’s useful. I think the categories were mostly designed for that after the fact investigation. Oh, well, that’s fair. But that’s what we’re missing that distinction about time. And I think I like the Zini’s comment there about the hierarchy. But I think I think it’s slightly misguided. Right. Idolatry is a compression or a flattening of the world. Right. It’s you’re taking you’re taking a symbol, right, or an icon and you’re compressing it. You’re compressing what’s above it into it. I think that’s the problem. And a lot of people kind of get around. We were talking about this earlier, right, with the difference between the Catholic Church idea of church and the Protestant idea of church. There’s a taller, a more modern idea of church. And the Catholic side and the Orthodox side. And that actually matters because there’s more layers to participate. And that affords more more layers and more levels of participation for more people. But it also affords an individual person different ways to fractally participate in the same thing. And so those two things combined actually make a difference. That’s the combinatorial explosion of affordance. Right. Which is a good thing. There’s many more affordances when you have more vertical causality. And that I think is actually really important. And this idea of squishing things. It’s not just the top of the hierarchy in a flat hierarchy where you’ve got a king and then the subjects. You need the nobleman. You need the merchant. Right. And then you need the merchant. And then you need the merchant. You need the merchant. Right. And then you need the subjects who are, we’ll say, under the king and the subjects who are outside of the kingdom. Like you need that fullness of the hierarchy where there’s a lot of layers there. And you see that actually in the Republic in Book 7, at least in the first half, where they talk about forcing the… Because it’s forcing the philosophers away from goodness. There’s nothing to do with the cave. Forcing the philosophers away from goodness. Even though it’s not best for them. Right. But it’s best for the people at the bottom of the city. At the various layers of the city. You get… Noglaucon and Socrates forced them to go down. Because they’re the creators of the city, by the way. Right. They forced them to go down in the city to see the things that the people who are standing at that level and looking across can’t see. Because they’ve never been higher. They don’t have the contrast. So, you know, all those concepts about, we’ll say… And the format of the Republic, too, talks about that. Right. It starts out with a very flat hierarchy. And each city, they expand the hierarchy. And they do it in every book. In the individual book. They start out with a very simple metaphor. And then they keep expanding the metaphor to meet the needs of talking about whatever they’re talking about. I mean, primarily justice. But also things like goodness and true and things like that. So having that expansion of the hierarchy super, super duper important for that reason. Like, it just gives way more importance to everything. Well, so we just got… Finally got a second priest for Parish. Which is… Woo! Yes, we’re thrilled. It’s been three weeks, I think. I think this is his third Sunday there. And then we’ve had some seminarians home. So we’ve been celebrating by having solemn high masses. Instead of just… Sowing masses. Which has been great. And one of the things that’s really cool when we’re there is that you see these hierarchies. I think typically a solemn high mass is done when there’s a bishop there. Like, it’s typically if a bishop is celebrating, he’s doing… Well, that would be a difficult mass once a bishop shows up. Oh, okay. That gets even more hierarchy in there. Okay, okay, great. But then you’ve got the priest who’s celebrating and then the priest who’s assisting him. And then the deacons. And so you see… The priest, the deacon, and the subdeacon. Yep. And the subdeacon, yep. And then you’ve got the altar servers who are a laity. And so there’s this really wonderful thing. You just kind of get it all laid out there in front of you as you’re there. And you don’t even have to know what’s going on to see it. Yeah, right. Because even the architecture, hopefully you’ve got steps leading up to the altar. Yep, yep. The priest is always on the top step. And then the deacon’s always on the middle step. And then the subdeacon’s always on the bottom step. And it’s like they’ll move in that formation. Or the deacon’s always on the right and the subdeacon’s always on the left. They all genuflect together. It’s just embodying all of that. And then at the consecration, when the subdeacon has his face covered during the consecration. Yeah, he’s got the paten. So the metal plate on which the host rests. And at the offertory, that goes off to the side. The deacon’s got this veil on. He holds the subdeacon in. And you’ve got to be there for a while with this paten in front of your face. They tell you to put your hand underneath your elbow to help support it. And then you’re just kneeling there for like 15 minutes. Yep, there we are. We have the subdeacon today. It’s cool. It’s been a really wonderful experience. And great on the face of the transfiguration too, which is lovely. Oh yeah. What did you learn in the liturgy? Because that liturgy that I just went through on my church today, man. That homily in particular was like, whoa, that everything they did was stuff I hadn’t seen. I’m like, wait a minute, we’re out of time order, we’re out of everything order. They didn’t go around the church with the incense. I’m like, what’s going on here? They always go around the church with the incense in this place. Oh yeah. Was there transfiguration for them as well? Oh yeah. Yeah, well, I mean the thing is that like with the traditional mat, you’re basically just adding stuff on. If you’re going to change things, you’re basically just adding stuff on. And so for today, the properties were different. There wasn’t anything. We didn’t do any processions or anything. But we’re in the middle of ordinary time, so everything’s green. And then we show up and everything’s now, everyone’s vested in white and gold. And so you just see these different emphases in it. And the homily was really interesting. One of the things that you think, well, of course, I should have seen that a long time ago. But you have the transfiguration, and then it’s immediately preceding the passion temporally in which our Lord is disfigured. So he’s transfigured. And then immediately after that, he’s disfigured and meditating on that. And there’s I mean, it’s such an incredible I mean, it’s a recapitulation of Sinai, obviously. You’ve got the you’ve got the law and the prophets there testifying to testifying to the sun. And then you have the founders of the church there, right? The apostles, Peter, James and John, I also didn’t realize they’re the only ones that were there for the resurrection of Jairus as a daughter. So they’re all for the three that are brought with Christ to the garden of like further in the Garden of Gethsemane. And so suffering suffering in the garden. And so there’s this this kind of through line for them in particular of their being you can see their being handed something so that they’re ready for when our Lord ascends into heaven to have this sort of inside track, if you will, and what was going on. And just and as our priest said, you know, the the transfiguration, our Lord, I mean, like not staying there and then going down and suffering just it reiterates that, as you put it, suffering and death are inextricably linked with heavenly glory. Like you can’t you can’t have glory with as people without in this world without suffering. And so to try to this whole project of trying to extract that glory or, you know, the just just the peace, just the glory and say we’re not going to have any of that suffering anymore. Just doesn’t work. Like, that’s just not how reality is constituted. Because if anyone could have our Lord could have done it and he didn’t. And so, yeah, so it was it’s also been it was a we were confirmed last feast the transfiguration. So it’s been a year. Oh, congratulations. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s a big, big day for us. So we were at my. Oh, we were at my parents church this Sunday, which is always fun because it is very different from our church. And I like them both. But the homily today, I really liked it was about like he talked about how like, you know, the You could say the passion confronting like the suffering and the hard parts of the world with that peace and serenity. Maybe you need to focus more and spend more time encountering our Lord, as in the transfiguration. So, like, go to mass more often, pray more often, go to adoration. Things like that. Yeah, one of our local priests brought this up, the little right, the little mound that the monstrance is actually put on. Well, there’s called the Tabor. Right. And so, like all adoration as a liturgical reinstantiation of the transfiguration, which is just that’s really cool to me. It’s like every day. That’s what adoration, I don’t know, is looks like. I don’t know how I would say it appropriately, but it’s important enough that it’s something that should go on all the time. Yeah. Well, thank Father Mauricio, not me. My husband also discovered one of the most important things that I’ve ever heard about. My husband also discovered Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silent. Apparently it was the first time he’d heard that, which I don’t know why I’m surprised. We say that as a Christmas song. No, for me, it was like a it was a mind bender to realize it’s actually a Eucharistic hymn, not a Christmas carol. I’m kind of used to it being a Christmas song, too. Well, it’s so great. The Protestants are like, we can’t have this whole real presence thing, but we got to get this hymn somehow. So like we’ll just make it about the incarnation of the Nativity. But it’s I mean, it’s so that that hymn is actually based on a text from the Divine Liturgy of St. James. Really? You can totally see like all of that old school, you know, like at his feet, the six winged seraph, Cherubim with sleepless eye, veil their faceless to the presence, as with ceaseless voice they cry, Alleluia, Alleluia. And then the hymn is actually based on a text from the Divine Liturgy of St. James. So it is like it’s a super stinking liturgical hymn. Right. And were you singing that in your Baptist Church? I sang it in my church. I sang it in my church. And it was so beautiful. I think I was like, I will never forget it. I think I will never forget it. And it was so beautiful. I think I will never forget it. And I think I will never forget it. Right. And were you singing that in your Baptist Church? Us? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. You can’t get away from it. Infiltrated by the orthodox. Yeah. Well, you know, it’s funny is by the time I left, we were also doing the Kyrie in English and the Lord’s Prayer and the Agnus Dei in English too. And what? Oh, and a Glory Bee. And we finished every service with a Glory Bee. So I don’t know where that church was headed in a direction that made it a little bit easier to step off the boat onto the other, onto the real boat. But we don’t. Yeah, I went to a wedding yesterday and, you know, there’s weddings, right. And I do lots of weddings. But some of these weddings are like the weddings. Emma, you know exactly what I’m talking about here. I think so. Yeah. Two really Catholic people who have a really Catholic wedding. There’s like five priests there and all of that. Five. And I sat down. That’s next level. Yeah. And while we had to scramble to find a priest because we don’t actually know that many. And the priest at the parish was busy. We got one though. That’s all it takes. That’s all it takes. Anyway, I was talking to this guy who had converted from Baptist to being Catholic. And he was talking about how he had like family members who are coming and being like, you know, at least we know that you’re saved. You know, you’re Catholic now. You had been saved already. So we’re not worried about that. I’m like, that’s just that’s just a different world right there. Have you bumped into any of that? Me? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I look, look, whether or not Catholics, any Catholics are saved as like a regular point of discussion. So, yeah, I mean, what’s interesting is I don’t know if you caught this little joke a while back that apparently Richard Rolland made, which was that all the young restlessness and reformed are now old Anglican and tired. So there was there’s a whole like there’s like a whole current of sort of my peers, not the generation above me, but of my peers that were like doing this whole we’re going to have this like, you know, liturgical, traditional Protestantism. And then most of them gave up and became Anglican. And so there’s a lot. There’s a lot. No, the weird the weird thing is the weird thing, brother, is actually that I spend a lot more time being like concerned at how ecumenical all of my friends feel about this. And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, like, I don’t think you understand. Like, I don’t believe this just like symbolically like these are ontological that these are real differences. Okay, you know, there’s the sacramental differences of the apostolic succession matters and they’re just like, oh, one big family. It’s like, yes or no. Yeah, I mean, that’s kind of kind of Anglican right there. Yeah, but the generation above me. Yeah, it’s like I mean, I can think of some people that be like, oh, you’re Catholic now. Like, let me let me go get some tracts so we can get you back on the right path. So well, and it’s weird, right, because they play both sides of the saved card. It’s like you’re saved. But then if you got it all, now you get now when now you’re not sick. It’s like, wait a minute, because because once you’re staying in those provisions, it’s not clear that you have anything further than that. That’s that’s when that’s when the Calvinism becomes a danger. And it’s fascinating because the homily today, you know, the whole thing. Oh, sorry, this is my kid. Can you hear my kid? No, there was just the loudest. Oh, there was just the loudest thunder outside. It was thunder, too. But the voice of the father in the thunder. OK, so the part of the theme about the transfiguration wise, I guess that the director of chosen gets all these letters about, you know, you’re going to add that in to your TV show. And he’s like, why doesn’t you know what you think it would make a difference to the story in this story? It’s the difference in orthodoxy to Protestants for sure. We love our brothers, but right. It’s the same sort of thing. It’s like saying like, like it’s done. Like you’re finished. Like you don’t there’s no more obligation on your you don’t do anything. You’re all set. Yeah, yeah. I know that’s that’s just say Paul said, work out your salvation with fear and trembling and. There you have it. So what’s interesting is I actually just had a conversation with a friend of mine this week where they he’s one of the ones who’s in Anglican Church now, and they did like a three week Flannery O’Connor discussion. That’s dangerous. And so they did they did Revelation, Parker’s back and Greenleaf. And oh my goodness. First of all, I went back and reread Parker’s back. I hadn’t read it in years and I was like this. She didn’t want to get married at a church because churches are idolatrous. I mean, the best part of it by such a long shot, though, is when he shows up, he’s got the Byzantine Christ Pantocrator tattooed on his entire back and he pulls his shirt off and he’s like religious wife is like, who’s that? Because you don’t know who that is. And she goes, I’ve never seen him. Oh, Flannery O’Connor. She’s a riot. So, but there, but the last one was Greenleaf, which I’m just I’m going to spoil it if anyone hasn’t read it because it’s fine to just read it even when you know exactly what’s happening. There’s this jealous old woman who has some people who work on her farm that she thinks are just totally beneath her. Like there’s all this like class dynamics going on in her stories. They’re the Greenleafs. And so the Greenleaf boy she’s convinced are just good for nothing, even though her own children are actually these like undisciplined slackers. And so it ends with the Greenleafs sort of ragged bull getting out and like chewing up some of her gardens and she goes out there and she’s so intent on like making sure they know that they’ve done wrong and that they now they have to shoot their bull. She’s so excited that she’s going to make them shoot their own bull that she goes out there to find it and gets gored by the bull. But the end of it is like really ambiguous because like it takes up all this interesting imagery of like the appearances of Zeus as a bull in Greek mythology. And there’s this like I mean, she I mean, she’s also said all of her stories are about grace. And so the bull is like her basically being just like, let’s say overtaken by divinity and it kills her. But like in a redeeming way. And my friend was telling me about the discussion. He said that some of the people there were like upset with the fact that someone like might be saved and then just killed as though there’s like nothing to show for it. And so we’re so what’s interesting about this sort of like Baptist notion sort of our cultural notion here is that there’s there’s everyone wants a testimony. Like it’s almost as though like the point of encountering God is that you might have a testimony. And so being saved in your dying breath is somehow like not worth it. And so we’re discussing the Thomistic the Hillbilly Thomas, which is funny because they’re Dominican for our bluegrass band who named themselves after something that plan or Connor called herself. So it all ties up together. But they’ve got this this align from a song where it’s it’s baptized at one hundred and five. Not a life well lived, but a life well died. And so this is it’s like right. So what is the point? What is the point is the point is the point that we’re united to God eternally and what share partakers in the divine and created share in the divine nature or is it that we have some sort of like testimony on this earth to inspire other people with? And I think it’s stories to me stories like Greenleaf and people’s response to it are really interesting because they like they show you exactly what you think the whole goal of this thing is. You know, it’s like, yeah, those other things are great. But like, it’s better to get if you’re it’s better to get gored by a bullet go to heaven. It is like a long, rugged life that ends up in hell. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, so, yeah. I have a question that I’ve been thinking about while you guys been talking kind of personal like I have a couple of friends, one is Catholic and one is evangelical. And they both have this misconception. Well, to me it is of that. There’s other ways to get to heaven besides Jesus. And of course, my I’m like, no, but I don’t know. Oh, they’re two ones, a new friend and one is an older friend who I discovered this like several years ago and I was surprised by it because I see I are both like Christians and she goes to church stuff. And I’m like, I did not know this about you. And I’m not sure what to do about it. Of course, I want to change their mind. But, you know, we all know how well that goes. But if a moment comes where we can talk about it, what would your advice be to deal with it in the proper way where I’m not like trying to get them to how do I plant seeds or something? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think a useful thing to know is what motivates people for their beliefs, because it’s not like we’re just logic machines processing data. We live in a motivated framework. And I think a lot of people are motivated to that sort of belief because they don’t like thinking about, let’s take for example, the entire population of North America prior to the arrival of Christians in 1492. And if you’ve got an overly narrow conception of God’s grace, then you’re forced to conclude that all of those people went to hell because they did not hear the gospel. And like, well, maybe you don’t want to believe that maybe you want to think that God actually has a little more power to be able to save people. So asking questions to see how they came about this belief is usually it’s almost always okay to ask questions, right? Like, how did you get here? How did this end up happening? Just tell me the story and then sitting there and actually listening and being interested and not just thinking about how you’re going to respond to them is is the best way to go about that. And then maybe just articulating the way that you believe and you might not be able to do that immediately, especially if they tell you something that you’ve never heard before. Oh, wow, I’ve got to go home and think about that. And finally, not trying to reprogram people because people hate that trying to be reprogrammed, trying to be saved. And you might just have to tolerate the fact that people don’t believe Peter when he says that there is no name under heaven or earth by which manner to be saved. So, yeah, I appreciate that. It helps that I knew the answer wasn’t trying to get them to believe the truth. I was probably going to fail epically at that. My evangelical friend, she’s more into the Jewish messianic. Oh, congregations and stuff. And she is a little bit of her backstory without getting personal about who she is or anything is that she finds it really, really hard to believe that God would not allow Jews to go to heaven without going to Jesus. That’s all I know right now, but I could probably ask and get more information and just understand it better. But, you know, I thought, you know, that’s, you know, that’s a valid concern. I’m like, I don’t know. When you said a narrow view of God’s grace, I’m like, well, maybe I have a narrow view of God’s grace. Because that what Peter said was like, and I think Paul said it too, I’m not sure. Yeah, it’s all over the New Testament. Jesus being the sole mediator between God and man. And then you get to that crazy mystical stuff where he always has been the sole mediator between the father and everything else. The way that this would have been resolved by the scholastics is that God is free to give the gift of faith to whomever he wants. And whatever form that gift of faith takes to justify them by his grace. And it’s he’s never he’s never bound by our work as members of the church. So that he saves and he sends his grace out onto whom he wills. So so it’s ultimately it’s not it’s just utterly concerned yourself about it. Yeah, it’s a material brain, right? It’s it’s what do you mean by no? It’s like, do you know Jesus because you read the Bible? You know what? Can you know Jesus without reading the Bible? I would argue that you certainly can write and that that that’s a means your way to resolve it. Our idea of knowledge is very narrow. It’s just like, oh, that means you read this thing. It’s like, that’s not what knowledge is. You don’t read about farming. We a good farmer. You’re not knowledgeable about farming. You read a book, right? You’re not knowledgeable about Jesus because you read the gospel. That’s how that works. And so, yeah, maybe the only way through. And it may require a type of knowledge, but that may have nothing to do with going to church or reading the Bible. And then now the now it’s not a problem anymore. Now the problem goes away. And, you know, the way I think this actually came up in Dante, right? I think it’s somewhere in the Paradiso where he’s I think he’s I think he remembers a little sketchy here. But I’m pretty sure it’s I’m pretty sure it’s in the spirit of Jupiter and it’s Emperor Trajan. Yes, yes, that’s right. Because I’m there for you, Father. I’m there for you. If it’s Dante, I’m there for you. Yeah. I need to reread Dante. It’s basically it’s basically yes. That’s what I was thinking of. But you’re right. It’s also quite relevant. Basically, Trajan was a just king and like we know nothing about him. He was just kind of mentioned in the Iliad. And God loved him and brought him into heaven, into the spirit of Jupiter. And Dante doesn’t explain how it happened. He explains how the other pagan king got there. Is it? Yeah, because it was I can’t remember the name of the other pagan king. But Gregory the Great, St. Gregory the Great read his one of the stories. No, I think it is Trajan. He’s like resurrected and he’s he baptized and then yeah, yeah, the great baptize with the great like he’s like he like reads this. He was like this was such a great king. It’s a shame for him to be lost. So he prays to God and then the guy gets resurrected for five minutes. Gregory the Great preaches the gospel to him. He grieves to it. He gets baptized and he dies again. Then bam straight to heaven. You know, so based. That’s so cool. And then I think in one of the story, God, God says something like that was great, but I’m not doing that again. Where’s there was another there was another scene from the Iliad. There’s another scene from the Paradiso where Dante is worried about people in India who’s never heard of Jesus. And then I can’t remember if it’s Beatrix or another one of the not be Beatrice. What are the other heavenly figures? It’s just like, listen, God loves those people more than you do. So chill out and don’t worry about it. I like that. I like that. I mean, what I’m your own business. One of the ways you can construe the entire journey of the Divine Comedy is Dante getting over himself. So, you know, that is that is a lens that would have affordances and you pop another lens on there, you get more to it. So that’s the problem with great works is you never get to the bottom of them. But that’s also the great thing about great works is that you never get to the bottom of them. Yeah, I wouldn’t class that in the problem thing. Unless unless your point is to not get over yourself so that you could feel like you own it. Because if your goal is to own the thing, then yeah, it’s a major problem that you can’t say, here it is. It’s just, you know, that that damnable word just. Hi, Sandy. How are you doing? I’m just popping in to see what you’re all talking about. It’s been a day. We’re just talking about Dante and Dante getting over himself. Yeah, I heard that. I just got possibly blocked from going to northern Quebec because of highways closed by fire. So Dante sounds about right. Oh, I’m sorry. Well, we’ll see. That’s where my partner died. I’ve been trying to go. This is the third summer. Oh, OK. So yes, every time I have plans and I set them according to friend that was going to go with me, she cancels. So yeah. So, yeah, I’m just going to go with you. I’m just going to go with you. I’m just going to go with you. Something comes up. So, yeah. So tell me about Dante. Ted, there you go. You said you were there for me. Well, I mean, you should just be careful what you ask on that account. Nate, Nate Heil and I are fixing to go through the Divine Comedy together on Grow Country. All of it? Whose translation are you using? I think so. He sent me a link today and I haven’t checked on which one it goes to. I’m hoping it’s Giardi because I’ve read that one a lot of times. And it’s fun because it’s in Terzerima. And his footnotes when he takes liberties are hilariously apologetic and also not apologetic. He basically was like, sorry, I’m not sorry, but I just wanted to make the Terzerima work. Oh, I might want to check that one out. I like comparing translations. How many translations are there? Dozens. Yeah, I’m very much in the camp of don’t get the highfalutin sort of Wordsworth kind because everything that I heard about the Italian is that he wasn’t highfalutin. Like people come back to him and are like, oh, Dante was this great poet. And so they want to give him this like very like high and like noble language when really he’s just Dorothy Sayers gives this description of him on telling you a story is a great, like if you want to just get sold on the Divine Comedy, Dorothy Sayers essay and telling you a story is awesome. She’s like because she’s saying that her previous she had classed it with Paradise Lost is this grand, you know, invoking the muses and, you know, of of man’s first deeds and all these things and justifying the ways of God’s image. And then I picked up the Divine Comedy. It was actually like this like tired middle-aged businessman came in and sat down across from me at the fire, like slouched down in his chair and started telling me a story. She said that she’s completely taken aback by just how he’s like, like good storyteller. He’s not he’s not and so you end up with is and you know, I credit her with this observations. It’s just wonderful. She talked. She’s one of the fascinating things about the Divine Comedy is the way that you get these astonishingly beautiful metaphors even in the depths of hell and you get these incredibly like every day like vulgar not the sense of being crude, but just ordinary metaphors even in the heights of heaven. So that by the time he’s in the highest sphere of heaven, the appearance and he sees the soul of Adam, right? The father of us all. He describes him the movement, the course, gations of light as being like the way a rooster in a bag in the market squirms around and makes the burlap sack move around. This is really wonderful sense in which I think I think it’s sayers says that Dante does not elevator thoughts. He deepens them. So so the Divine Comedy is very much and is is very because like ultimately it’s about him tracing the path from his experience with this young quarantine girl when he was like 11 years old leading him to the beatific vision. Right. And so this it’s not about being quote unquote like raised above the normal things of life. It’s about seeing that thread between the ordinary things of life and the things that are utterly beyond us. So I like Dante a lot. There’ll be plenty to say as as father says you don’t get to the bottom of it. There’s all sorts of lenses you can take to it. And I think that we have not as a culture we’ve not gotten over Dante by any means like you once you read it a couple of times you start to see these images very specific Dante and images that are just like haunting our culture. So my favorite one recently was the last movie that I saw in theaters was that Puss in Boots remix remake their sequel. Yeah. I put on this morning actually. It was so so it ends with the first of all the with the villain is he’s like a sorcerer in the end. I mean they just got his sorcery so perfectly like he just collects things that let him manipulate the world and he puts them all in this endless bag that he just like pulls out to destroy things with. Yeah that’s exactly. And so they’re all going for this generic it’s a star. So it’s the generic wishing star the nine lives one. Yeah that’s right. And and so he ends up at the very end the villain. He drinks something that turns him into a giant. I don’t know. He turns into a giant and there’s this crazy thing that he’s like he’s like a giant. He’s like a giant. He’s like a giant. He’s like a giant. He’s like a giant. He’s like a giant. I don’t know. He turns into a giant and there’s this crystal sphere star that looks like a like basically like ice like glowing ice and he gets so big that he breaks through the star. And so he’s trapped up to his waist in this like glittering thing. It’s like that’s Satan in the bottom of hell. Yeah it was a perfect match for Satan and it’s like and it’s his desires that get him there and his attempt to escape the situation that ensnares him more deeply in it. Oh it was just like just like Satan’s wings keeps hell cold and keeps him frozen there where he’s not trying to escape he’d be able to get out. Exactly. And so it was just it was so fun to be watching that movie. This is like perfect match of the image of and you know the whole movie is about post coming to terms with the fact that he’s going to die. And so it’s great that right. He kind of has gone through he’s gone through hell and then comes out on the other side of it. So it’s good stuff. What other what other sort of examples do you have Ted in say recent recent times that keep us talking about? Oh recent times. Man I don’t spend enough time with recent times. I’ve probably four or five or six different places where you know the beginning of the Divine Comedy is referenced in literary terms. Richard Wilbur I know T.S. Elliott on numerous occasions. I mean the four quartets is basically which that’ll be at the conference in November. I’m hoping that Dr. Jim and I will be able to talk through some of that about how the four quartets is basically like the modernist English rewriting of the Divine Comedy. But but if you’re familiar with Dante and then you read Elliott it’s just like absolutely everywhere. I mean that’s literally in the footnotes in the wasteland right. Yes 90 percent of his footnotes in the wasteland are just things from the inferno inferno specifically you know. Yeah yeah well there’s he gets what’s I mean it’s just just in terms of thinking about what’s going on there the four quartets ends up with a lot of a lot more going a lot more from the purgatory on parody. So which actually says a lot theologically metaphysically speaking about where Elliott was was him going. We could not have been in a happy place when he wrote the wasteland. It’s like I go back to that one every once in a while and it’s like oh my gosh this is just the bottom. This is the bottom. He’s hitting he’s hitting bottom here you know. It’s when it’s when nothing coheres anymore right like the point I mean because he’s he’s and he says that at the end right. You know I shore up these fragments against my ruin. It’s like you can’t hold anything together and I think that’s like the fundamental pain of the 20th century is that well it’s it’s is it out in his what is the center does not hold. You know the the what is that poem. It’s such a great poem. It’s such a great poem. The center doesn’t hold the Falcon the Falcon cannot hear the Falconers call in the in the widening gyre the center does not hold all of that one up for you. But I mean like it I mean it’s just such a it’s it’s such a second coming. Yes. Thank you. Did you say that Andre or Adam. Yeah. Yes. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah that one is in your this this this I mean I’ve been thinking about this a lot because this idea of like how do things hold together. I think this is like when I was talking with Jess about about the book of Job and then reading and thinking about fairy tales. It’s like I think this is what’s going on is that is that that that thing that happens at the end of the book of Job that thing that happens in the end of fairy tales is this pattern that you can’t see how it could resolve does and it doesn’t just resolve but it resolves intrinsically. It resolves out of all the things that came before it. And so and like that is not a matter of theological faith but it is a matter of faith that’s going to happen. And I think we’ve seen the wasteland is someone like all the people say all the people who lived through World War One because God have mercy on them. I can’t I can understand why that would have destroyed their ability. How could you live through trench warfare and think yeah this will all turn out all right in the end. There’s that and so like you know even think of like the Brothers K it’s like that’s the difference between Yvonne and Alyosha is that Yvonne says frankly I don’t care if it all fits together in the end there’s some things that I just reject and Alyosha says no like I really do believe just like the fairy tales that at some point there’s going to be something that makes it all fit together. And so I think when I when I think of the wasteland it’s like it’s T.S. Eliot living at that point where he can’t figure out how it’s all going to fit together. It’s just you know. But that’s but that’s meaning crisis right. It is. Right. The meaning crisis is one one result one visible result of intimacy crisis is that you see this inability to find intelligibility in the world or create intelligibility out of the things. And for Elliot he at least intuited the connection between it because one of the sections of the wasteland is this what this this young lady who has this meaningless encounter. Yeah. Oh it’s just heartbreaking to read that is right. Yeah. Well there I’m with you on that though. That’s such a perfect example of that. Well and then I mean but then to take that example right. That was right at that period when we were divorcing that whole relationship between men and women from its final cause. Right. It’s literally a line. It’s a line. What do they want to get married for if they want to have kids. That’s the line from the bar scene. Yeah. Yeah. And so then sorry Sandy you’re going to speak. Well I was just thinking because that strikes me. My partner that was his reason that he married his second wife. She wanted children. He would not bring children into the world that did not have a father. So I’m thinking is that a common. Are you saying that broke at some point. The notion the notion. Well the connection between say a man and a woman being coming together in physical relations and the notion of that producing offspring. Yeah. Totally broke. I mean the reasoning to something that Father Eric was saying there just when you were going to speak it made me think of that sense of it’s not just producing children. It’s that sense of. It’s not just producing children. It’s that sense of connection to them. That’s absolutely. Claiming them as your own. You know being their father. And doing the hard work of educating them in the fullest sense of not just teaching them things but leading them out into the world. And like I don’t. And when I say stuff like this I think people can you know rightly bring up exceptions but like so Father Eric would be one of those exceptions and there might be other people here who it’s like. But the notion is not necessarily that like all men are going to become biological fathers but that all men rightly inhabit the role of fatherhood in some way. Right. So the biological father it’s more obvious to say with a priest it’s more obvious because they’re direct. But but you know you know it’s interesting like that the universities until the 1800s middle eight mid 1800s the English universities those were all the professors were celibate. Right. It was like so what are they doing there it’s like well they’re they’re also fathers. If you understand it appropriately. And so they’re focusing they’re focusing all of their attention and energy and time on fathering the education or furthering the education of the children. Right. And they’re only able to do that because they don’t have the other distractions. And that’s and that’s where the celibacy is actually important like that’s where it comes together with all the other stuff. Right. Yeah. And couples that can’t have children well someone’s going to take the orphans. Right. Like there’s all these ways in which. Right. So that’s. Yeah that’s. And it is the fitting together like when you lose final cause you can’t make meaning. It’s not possible. Right. If you compress time down enough to just now you’re being mindful or something goofy. Right. We were only worried about the current moment. Nothing. Nothing can have intelligibility. There isn’t any reason to do anything in the rear. The correct resolution to that the actual correct resolution is everything. What is it. Everything all at once something that everything everywhere all at once. Everything everywhere all at once. Thank you. Yeah. It’s a great movie. I really enjoyed it. I mean I really want to see it. I haven’t seen it. Oh the nihilism donut is so fantastic. It’s just like you know it’s perfect. It’s perfect symbology. But the thing is the multiverse is the solution to that. Unfortunately it doesn’t work. Right. But it is like if you compress time and you’re only worrying about the here and now you have to expand space by creating more dimensions. And had you read Matthew Pitcher wonderful book. Then you’d know that because the symbolism the symbolism is is is right there. Right. The language of creation symbolism is right there about this trade off between space and time. You know what’s weird is I did see a review of that movie and the the scene in which they’re being she’s being taken to see the nihilism donut or the everything bagel. It’s a it’s a Catholic altar. Yes. Yeah. Right. Welcome to how these are the this is where I get like I’m like we don’t ever escape from anything. It’s all there. Right. That’s a nicer way to put it. I do when I’m in a pessimistic mood. Well yeah but it’s just I mean we’re speaking the same language all the time and in some sense it’s just I mean C.S. Lewis says that like none of the difference between the presentation of the past ages is that we have all the past ages behind us. And so we’re not like a man in a train traveling somewhere like we have the old times with us. And so there’s this you know like Dante like you know like the altar in a Catholic church you know all these things like they don’t they keep haunting us. And so but more like that because I just like in the modern in the modern sense or the recent sense it’s breaking out of the box. But you can’t. Yeah exactly. Well because it has to be meaningful. I mean Mark I’m still working on your intimacy crisis term but whatever. But like in terms of being able to relate to it like for something that have meaning you have to be able to relate to it. And like I mean that’s just like so if you actually really ever did totally break out of the box it wouldn’t mean anything. You know that most breaking out of the box that you can get as a random string of digits and it’s like I actually can’t relate to a random string of digits unless I like tell a story about it or something or turn it into a song. Because there isn’t any way to relate to it. And so if I want to tell something that people can relate to I’m I’m inevitably pulling I can’t break the box really. Another cat interrupting me. Criminal. It was a bang. But I mean that’s that’s basically it though. Like that’s one. Well really to be listed two forms of intimacy that are required to knit things together to find intelligibility. But there’s no impetus for the intimacy if there’s no final cause. Why are you knitting things together anyway if the universe. So it makes sense. Yeah. You can’t beat it. Which I mean I think about that I remember being a boy scouts being like a 12 year old boy scout at Target. So let me get this straight on the whole entropy thing. And I was like you’re telling me everything’s going to run down. He’s like yeah. Oh my goodness. All the cat there’s so many cats. I mean it is the Internet so I should expect the cat. Well that my cat is being blessed by Paul Van de Klaay. So she’s special. Oh OK. Yeah. Getting ready to compete here. Didn’t you actually meet my cat. You met my cat. I did. I actually met the Valley of the Shadow of Death. Oh yes. Well no this is the Valley of the Shadow. Oh that’s just the Shadow. This is Shadow of Death. But and I will tell you Jacob that I feared no evil when I was near the Shadow of the Death. The Valley of the Shadow of Death because she’s very sweet. She is very sweet. Oh yeah. She is very sweet. Although she bullies Happy like you wouldn’t believe. That sounds symbolically appropriate. It’s a very existential pet situation you have going on there. She’s eight pounds and Happy is 80 pounds. And she hisses and Happy and Happy shies away. Look Jacob I’m telling you you’re just like you’ve got this sort of like what do they call it the psychomachia the like inner battles. It’s like of course you have a 10 percent of the fear of death can ruin 100 percent of happiness in most people’s lives. Dang yeah that yeah that’s how it works huh. Oh my goodness. I haven’t seen Valerie in forever. How are you doing Valerie? Doing alright how are you doing? Good. Good. And Sally’s here and Bazan is here. Everybody missed you Father. Aw. Night Ted. Yeah I’m really glad that Ted stepped into the breach and kept the Sunday nights alive here. And he’s going to need to do so next week because I have a Mass with the Bishop at 5 p.m. in Wapiton. So there’s really not not any possibility of me doing this next week. Yeah. Isn’t Mass with the Bishop much longer than Mass without a Bishop? It depends on the Bishop. So definitely if yeah yeah it’s it does usually take longer but that’s usually because you got a bigger crowd and a few more ceremonies involved. So yeah yeah. Yeah we’ll see if we can make this happen next Sunday. So hanging around with the Bishop makes Mass longer. I guess that’s kind of to keep people from following the Bishop around all the time or something? Well usually the size of North Dakota takes care of that. But it’s when you’ve got the Bishop there basically you’ve got some kind of special thing going on and that’s why you have the Bishop there. So usually it’s a special thing that makes whatever it is longer and gives you a bigger crowd. But if it’s just the Bishop’s Sunday Mass at the Cathedral it’s not that much longer right? No no it really yeah it really would not make any difference. Especially in our Cathedral because they would always do incense. Generally if you go to services and the Mohel who’s the person who does circumcisions has a circumcision that day then services are shorter and it has nothing to do with circumcisions cutting the ceremony. Funny joke not a funny joke. But for this reason those rabbis who do circumcisions all the time like they have almost every day they have a circumcision they’re doing are really popular for people to go to services with them. Because services like morning services especially on Mondays and Thursdays are like 10-15 minutes shorter. Do they just talk faster? No so there are prayers we say on there are penitential prayers you don’t say on happy days. And it’s considered a happy day if either the father of a child that’s being circumcised or the person who’s doing the circumcision or a bridegroom somebody who got married within the past seven days or is getting married that day is in the congregation with you. So yeah there are rabbis in Los Angeles who because they’re so popular they do at least one circumcision every day. And so yeah they’re very popular for being in the same services with them because then you don’t have to say tachanon which is the penitential prayers. So you could say they’ve got skin in the game hey. Yes nobody makes jokes about this at all it’s not a joke people make constantly. You’ve never heard that before. Hello Chad. Hi. What are you guys talking about? Circumcising babies and cutting it short. And in the game and yeah and how nobody’s ever heard these jokes they’re brand new. They’re kind of dull. They don’t really cut through like they probably should. Oh my goodness. Don’t make me end this stream early Chad. Well I gotta take the brunt of it. No no no it’s all good it’s all good. Were you guys at least talking about something important at one point? Oh we were talking about Dante and TS Eliot. Honestly the transfiguration and the difference between the Protestants the Orthodox and the Catholics. Oh basically the same old same old. Same old same old yeah. Stuff we talk about all the time. When Bill told me he wanted to talk to Chad I was like oh yes the two people who are like stop with the stupid theology and do something productive with your life talking to each other. This is going to be awesome. Yeah. I’ve actually over the last couple days been the only thing that’s actually cut me from making the announcement that I was going to take a break from the corner was that I had this stupid conversation with Bill coming up. Otherwise I thought I really was thinking about like just not not making the proclamation that I would end it all here but like that I wanted to like walk away for a little while. There’s good reasons to take a break. Yeah. Yeah. The only thing at this point that’s really keeping me around here is this this stupid Peter Pan thing that I committed to finishing and this other conversation but I don’t know I just I felt like there’s something is calling me away. Every time every time somebody has said something like that to me I have always made it a point to say there’s nothing wrong with stepping away from this internet community. I think you contribute a lot to it and that’s why I am glad when you have time and it’s beneficial for you to be involved. But this this is not meant to be something that’s permanent. It’s it’s not like it’s not good for it to always be something in your life. And I think when we do it well it’s good if we can continue to contribute to this corner as we can. But when we do it well we do end up like in real life communities that take us away from being as online as we used to be which is good. Yeah. Yeah. Jacob’s really right. I had to take a three month break from Discord and I was communicating with him during that time and then I came back and he was thankful when I joined the stream and another friend of mine as well. And you really do notice how much different your life can be to separating from the little groups that cling on to sometimes too much. Yeah. Well take some time for yourself. Well that’s the thing. I mean for me I feel like the whole the whole thing is is really selfish endeavor for me. It feels that way sometimes. It feels it feels like a like a very self centered attention grabbing game. And like that’s just me. I’m not saying anybody else here. It’s just like I know I know these things about myself so I notice when I’m starting to drift off into self centered modes of being and it’s not good for a guy like me. I feel some of that too. I can come up with an idea for a YouTube video like every day and I can dream about how it all would come together and then I worry about what that would end up doing to me if I put a lot of myself out there. I’m quite certain that if I made all the videos that I really wanted to I would just make everything worse. So everybody who happened to watch them. Yeah. So, so we’ll see what happens. Yeah. I thought about talking to like David and some of the guys about it and just saying hey why don’t you guys finish this project and let me step away for a while but I don’t know how that would be the right thing to do or not. So, I mean, your work is appreciated. I hadn’t seen your channel in like months and I looked at like two or three videos and they gave me a really big laugh. And it was just like simple editing. So, people will always welcome you back I think. Yeah, I’m not worried. I appreciate that though. I mean I’m not worried about that. It’s, it’s nothing to do with anybody. It’s like, it’s just a matter of like, I don’t know, I’m trying to be transparent and thinking out loud with you guys because I think that’s a good thing to do. And it’s just something that’s, I had a little bit of revelation around it. Last couple days. Just something kind of saying hey you know like, remember those alcoholics used to always be working with all the time. Remember those guys. Like you haven’t, you haven’t actually gone through the doctor’s opinion with anybody and I don’t know, four months or something. It might be nice to actually go out and actively turn up the juices on your recovery game a little bit. Hey, that’d be a good idea, right, Chad? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it’s hard to, it’s hard to, to, to play, to play the balancer. You know, like I don’t get, I don’t balance things well. You know, and so being a husband and an employee and a recovered alcoholic and then, and then, and then doing this thing on the internet, which is a lot of fun, this thing will suck a lot of my time. And so, I don’t know. So you’re saying you’re not perfect, Chad? Shocking, shocking. That’s a, yes, well that’s a different conversation but, you know, it’s, it’s about, it’s about you can’t serve two masters. That’s what it’s about. And, and, and like, there’s already enough stuff that goes on in my head and between my ears that is unhealthy. And, you know, and then, and then serving the wrong master often gets me falling victim to the things that go through my head. So, you know what I’m saying? I’m trying not to be too strict, but yeah. Yeah, we have limited time, energy and attention. So, I have to figure out how to meter it out correctly. And on that note, my time, energy and attention is going to bed. So, see you later. Take care. Have a good one. Great to see you guys. I’m gonna, I think I’m gonna roll off here too, but thanks for letting me drop in. Yeah, yeah. Take care. Bye bye. Now would be a good time to start wrapping the stream up. I’m three yawns in. So, I wanted to know, thank you for saying my YouTube name correctly because you’re the first person who has. Andre? Tertotium. Oh, oh, that’s you. Yeah, well, yes. I speak, I read Latin, so yeah. Yeah, Mark was struggling to read it. He was going, can I call you Tert? And he knows it’s me. And I’m just like, just say Andre every time I comment. It was good to hear it like said correctly for once. Yeah, Tertotium. It means third. I had to do with metaphors. Add a list up. It was, it’s like the mother is necessity is a mother of invention is an example. My difficulty is remembering to call father Eric father Eric and father Stephen father Stephen because I constantly call one the other. Yeah, oops. We’re different. We’re rather different actually. Yeah. I never knew fathers before. All righty. Well, I’m four yawns in. So we’re going to go ahead and wrap this up. So good night. Good night, everyone. Good to see you all. Bye bye.