https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=dZyGCjnjXFo
So, let’s go back to the issue of, say, taking shop class out of school. So Baron Cohen talked about systematizers versus empathizers. Yeah, but what Baron Cohen did, he looked at the object visualizers. He was looking more at the mathematical visualization pattern thinkers. I agree with him about systematizing and verbal, but the object visualizers. He didn’t differentiate the systematizers properly. That should be more differentiated. Yeah, he did. The systematizers would have two categories, the object visualizer and the visual spatial. A big mistake in a lot of perceptual studies is that they’re not differentiating them. Some people, there’s some verbal people in psychology that don’t want to believe this stuff exists. Just while you were setting up the cameras, I downloaded six new abstracts that aren’t even in my book on this that show that they are different. Right, okay. Got them right here on my lap. So Cohen also talks about gender differences in relationship to this continuous. So we can break the continuum to two parts on the one end. And it is the case that autism tends to be preferentially a male disorder. Yes, that’s right. Although there are females as well. That systematizing mode of thinking that you’ve differentiated into the two categories also tends to be gender stereotype to some degree at a biological level. I avoid that issue as too controversial because right now I’m interested in one thing at the age of 75 of helping the students who think differently get into really good careers where they can have satisfying lives. And I avoid the controversial stuff. Yeah, well, I’m not so much interested in the controversy. I’m interested in trying to address the issue of why shop courses, for example, have been taken out of schools. Now we do know that schools are predominantly run by women and women are more likely to be empathizers. No, I think the reason why they took it out. So I’m wondering if there’s a gender issue going on there and a prejudice against a certain way of thinking. Okay. What’s that? That one of the reasons they took out the shop classes, they kind of just go, everybody’s going to go the university route and cost. Good shop classes cost a lot of money. Now people are starting to put shop classes back in and you know what they’re finding? They can’t find anybody to teach the shop classes. I just heard about a brand new beautiful welding shop built here in Colorado at a community college and they can’t find somebody to teach it even after they drop the university requirement. And I can tell you right now, we need people that do these things before the power grid and the water systems fall apart. I’ll tell you that stuff I care about. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Well, it’s okay. So, so you, well, virtualize now, do you think virtualization has also played a role in this? I mean, the systematizing types. Some of the 3D drawings I see it drawn. And that’s not going to fix some of the serious problems we got with infrastructure right now. And you need both kinds of thinkers. Like one of the things I’ve got in my book is when a bridge fell down in Minneapolis and the workers were complaining. They were worried that when they were working on this bridge it was going to collapse. Well, I looked up that bridge collapse and I saw all the twisted metal and I took one look at that and I went, it’s too light. It’s too cheap. That was just from looking at the pictures. I found the engineering report on why that bridge fell down and they cheated on the gusset plates that hold the beams together and they were way thinner than the spec. But I had already looked at the pictures and said that bridge is too light. It’s cheap. Before I read any engineering report. The current administration’s new year’s goals are to tax, spend and turn a blind eye to inflation. 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So, how was it in your life that you attained the practical knowledge necessary to facilitate your thinking? So we’re talking about how kids who think in the vision… I’ll tell you how you do it. It’s real simple. You’ve got to get out and experience all kinds of stuff because the more information you put in the database, the better you get. And going back to teaching a computer how to diagnose melanoma, you had to give it like a couple of thousand melanoma examples and a couple of thousand mosquito bites, infected boils and everything else, examples. In other words, the more… As I got older and I got more and more information in my database, I could think better and better and better and I could make smaller categories of things. Now a lot of the people that I worked with in construction that build equipment for me, that’s used in every large beef plant now in the US. One of them started and some of them would definitely be autistic. One of them started out working on cars. Another one took a single welding class and now he’s selling mechanical equipment all over the world. Started with a tiny shop that then grew into a big shop. And what’s happening now is the little shops are not forming. And that’s why we’re importing all this equipment from Holland and Italy. Because when you look at their educational system, and I looked it up again recently online, Italy actually has three routes, university route, tech route, mechanical and art route. Like for their fashion industry and the Holland and Netherlands, you can go either university route or tech route. And that’s why they’re making the state of the art chip making machine that we don’t make. Right. And I’m not talking potato chips, I’m talking electronic chips. Right. I wonder if this is also a consequence of people increasingly moving away from farms. Because when you’re on a farm, you’d have to do a lot of hands on stuff. You have to do a lot of fence repair. You got to take care of your own machinery. And as you move into the urban environment, everything in some sense, even in the real world is virtualized because you can always call on other people to do the day to day things that you need to keep the infrastructure up. I agree. Kids are growing up today totally removed from the practical. And one of the things I talk about in the visual thinking book is I talked to a doctor and he told me he had trouble training interns to sew up cuts because the interns had never used scissors as a young child. I had a student in my class that had never used a tape measure to measure anything. They’re totally removed from the world of the practical. Where those kids that came off the farms, yes, they had to figure out how to fix things. Absolutely. But I think what’s happening now in schools is things are getting so verbal and they’re going absolutely crazy on math requirements. Because I know people with 20 patents and they could basically do sixth grade arithmetic that I could do because I can relate that back to real things. Do you know of any research pertaining on how the more the people who visualize objects might be assessed for their ability? Yes, there’s a whole chapter in here. And I never can pronounce their names right blank and Kova and I never can say the names correctly. But I have a whole list of references in there where the difference between the object visualizer and the visual spatial is being assessed. And there’s a whole bunch of references on that. Now I have to look these names up because I can’t pronounce them correctly. Let me find the reference list here for chapter two. Okay, it’s Blazhenkova. I’ve got one, two, three references in here from Blazhenkova on types of creativity. And then the other big reference, I have lots of references, would be Kozhevnikov. If she’s got trade-offs, object versus spatial visualization, reviewing the visual verbal dimension, evidence for two types of visualizers. That’s another paper, spatial versus object visualization, a new characterization of visual cognitive style. That’s three papers right there, Kozhevnikov, that are in my reference list. And I’ve got a lot of references where they are actual tests were done. When I go through the citation lists, I just went in and we’re working on the children’s edition of the book right now. And one of the copy editors had a query about a reference. And I had to look that up. And then I decided to just type in object visualizer, visual spatial into Google Scholar again and find the same old papers. And then I found some citations. It’s kind of a cool paper here in the journal Cognition. It’s an old paper actually, visual object ability, a new dimension of nonverbal intelligence. I know from working in factories, I spent 25 years in heavy construction. And that is something that I don’t think many teachers have done that. And seeing how these guys think. Big complicated Cargill plants, IBP plants, which are now Tyson, Montfort plants, and that company is now JBS, figuring out complicated things with equipment. It’s a different type of intelligence. And I think it’s when I worked on the book with Betsy Lerner, my super verbal co-writer who helped me organize things. And she had someone come in to fix a bunch of stuff in her house. And after we had discussed this, Betsy was telling me, well, I watched how he figured out how to fix the stones on the chimney. I had never really thought about it before. But she’d watched how he did things. And then she started to understand there’s a form of intelligence there that’s absolutely not verbal. When she watched a person she hired to fix stuff in her house.